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Topic: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-19 06:03:43 and read 11214 times.

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

5W EWR-KEF JUL 0.4>0 AUG 0.5>0 SEP 0.4>0 OCT 0.4>0 NOV 0.5>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.4>0

AA CLE-LGA SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4 JAN 5>4 FEB 5>4
AA DCA-RDU SEP 7>6 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 7>6 JAN 8>7 FEB 7>6
AA DFW-ACT SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
AA DFW-AEX SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
AA DFW-BOS SEP 8>9 OCT 8>9
AA DFW-CLL SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
AA DFW-CUN OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5
AA DFW-EVV SEP 1.0>1.8 OCT 1.0>1.9
AA DFW-GPT SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
AA DFW-IAD SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4 JAN 5>4 FEB 5>4
AA DFW-LAS AUG 10>11 SEP 10>12 OCT 10>12 NOV 10>12 DEC 10>12 JAN 10>12 FEB 10>12
AA DFW-LAW SEP 5>6 OCT 5>6
AA DFW-MEX SEP 5>6 OCT 5>6
*AA DFW-MZT SEP 0.2>0 OCT 0.1>0
AA DFW-PNS SEP 5>6 OCT 5>6 NOV 5>6 DEC 5>6 JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6
AA DFW-PSP OCT 2>3
*AA DFW-PVR SEP 1.0>1.2 OCT 1.0>3 NOV 1.1>3 DEC 1.2>3 JAN 1.1>3 FEB 1.1>3
AA DFW-SAF SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3 NOV 2>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3
AA DFW-SHV SEP 7>8 OCT 7>8 NOV 7>8 DEC 7>8 JAN 7>8 FEB 7>8
AA DFW-SJD OCT 2>3 NOV 2>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3
AA DFW-SJU SEP 1.0>1.2 OCT 1.0>1.1
AA DFW-SLC SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
AA DFW-SPS SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4
AA DFW-TRC AUG 2>1.6 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.5
AA DFW-TYR SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
AA DFW-VPS SEP 7>6 OCT 7>6 NOV 6>5 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3
AA DFW-XNA OCT 8>9 NOV 8>9 DEC 8>9 JAN 8>9 FEB 8>9
AA JFK-DCA SEP 5>6 OCT 5>6 NOV 5>6 DEC 5>6 JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6
AA LAX-BNA SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2
AA LAX-DFW SEP 19>18 OCT 19>18 NOV 19>18 DEC 19>18 JAN 19>18 FEB 19>18
AA LAX-MRY SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4
AA LAX-RNO SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4
AA LAX-SJD SEP 1.0>1.3 OCT 1.0>1.7 NOV 1.0>1.3
AA LGA-RDU SEP 9>10 OCT 9>10 NOV 9>10 DEC 9>10 JAN 9>10 FEB 9>10
*AA MIA-ASU NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.6 FEB 0>0.6
AA MIA-BWI SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2
AA MIA-CUN SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
AA MIA-DCA SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
AA MIA-DEN SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
AA MIA-FPO SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
AA MIA-JAX SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4
AA MIA-LAX SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7
AA MIA-MHH SEP 1.3>1.0 OCT 1.3>1.0 NOV 1.3>1.0 DEC 1.3>1.0 JAN 1.3>1.0 FEB 1.3>1.0
AA MIA-PUJ SEP 1.0>1.6 OCT 1.0>1.6 NOV 1.5>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3
AA MIA-STL SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
AA ORD-DFW SEP 19>18 OCT 19>18 NOV 19>17 DEC 19>16 JAN 19>16 FEB 19>16
AA ORD-FLL SEP 2>1.0 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3
AA ORD-MIA SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
AA ORD-PSP OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0.5>1.5 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2
AA ORD-RSW SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.5>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3
AA ORD-SDF SEP 5>6 OCT 5>6
AA ORD-SEA SEP 5>6
*AA ORD-SJD OCT 0>1.1 NOV 0.5>1.7 DEC 1.0>3 JAN 1.0>3 FEB 1.0>3
AA ORD-STL SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8 NOV 9>8 DEC 9>8 JAN 9>8 FEB 9>8
AA ORD-TVC SEP 1.8>3 OCT 1.9>3 NOV 1.9>3 DEC 1.8>3 JAN 1.9>3 FEB 1.9>3

AI EWR-BOM JUL 1.0>0
AI JFK-DEL JUL 1.0>0
AI ORD-DEL JUL 1.0>0

...and the roulette wheel this week lands on...
AM FAT-GDL JUL 0.4>1.0 AUG 0.4>0.8
AM LAS-MEX OCT 3>1.8
AM MIA-CUN SEP 0.3>0
AM SAT-MTY OCT 0.5>0.8

AS LAX-MZT NOV 0.9>0.6 DEC 1.0>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.9 FEB 1.0>0.9
AS LAX-ZIH NOV 0.9>0.6 DEC 1.0>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.8 FEB 1.0>0.9
AS LAX-ZLO NOV 0.7>0.3 DEC 0.7>0.6 JAN 0.7>0.5 FEB 0.7>0.6
*AS OGG-SAN NOV 1.6>1.1 DEC 1.6>1.0 JAN 1.6>1.0 FEB 1.6>1.0
*AS OGG-SMF NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.4>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0
AS PDX-OGG NOV 1.5>1.9 DEC 1.5>2 JAN 1.6>2 FEB 1.6>2
AS SJC-GDL DEC 0.6>0.8 JAN 0.5>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0
AS SJC-SJD DEC 0.3>0.7 JAN 0.3>1.0 FEB 0.3>1.0

B6 JFK-BGI SEP 0.9>0.8 OCT 1.0>0.7
B6 JFK-LIR OCT 0.7>0.5
B6 JFK-STI SEP 5>6 OCT 4>5
B6 JFK-SXM SEP 0.9>0.7
B6 SJU-SDQ SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5 NOV 5>6 DEC 5>6 JAN 5>6 FEB 1.9>3

BTV DIC-CGK JUL 0.6>0.2 AUG 0.6>0.1 SEP 0.6>0.2 OCT 0.6>0.1 NOV 0.6>0.1 DEC 0.6>0.2 JAN 0.5>0.1 FEB 0.6>0.1
BTV DIC-DPS JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.5 SEP 0>0.4 OCT 0>0.5 NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4

DL ATL-AMS NOV 1.5>1.7 DEC 1.6>1.7 JAN 1.6>1.7 FEB 1.6>1.7
*DL ATL-BCN NOV 0.6>0 DEC 0.6>0 JAN 0.5>0 FEB 0.6>0
DL ATL-BTR SEP 8>9 OCT 8>9
DL ATL-HSV DEC 7>8
DL ATL-NAS JAN 3>4
*DL ATL-PUJ OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.5>2
DL ATL-ROA NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 FEB 4>5
DL ATL-SJC OCT 1.0>0.7 NOV 1.0>0.7
**DL ATL-SWF SEP 1.8>0 OCT 1.9>0 NOV 1.8>0 DEC 1.9>0 JAN 2>0 FEB 2>0
DL BOS-MCI SEP 1.7>1.0 OCT 1.9>1.0 NOV 1.8>0.9 DEC 1.4>1.0 JAN 1.7>1.0 FEB 1.9>1.0
DL CMH-RDU NOV 1.6>0.8
DL DTW-CDG NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.7 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.7
DL DTW-CMH JAN 5>6 FEB 5>7
DL DTW-DLH NOV 1.8>1.0 DEC 1.9>1.0 FEB 1.5>1.0
DL DTW-ICN JAN 0.9>1.0 FEB 0.9>1.0
DL DTW-ORF FEB 4>5
DL DTW-YYZ SEP 8>7
DL JFK-DKR NOV 0.4>0.3 DEC 0.4>0.3 JAN 0.5>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3
*DL JFK-PRG NOV 0.6>0.3 DEC 0.6>0 JAN 0.5>0 FEB 0.6>0
DL LGA-BGR OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3
DL LGA-CHS SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 FEB 4>5
DL LGA-MCO SEP 7>6
DL LGA-MSY SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4
*DL LGA-OMA SEP 0.8>0.1 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0
DL LGA-SDF SEP 1.4>3 OCT 1.6>3 NOV 1.5>3 DEC 1.5>3 JAN 1.6>3 FEB 1.6>3
DL LGA-SYR SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
DL MSO-MSP FEB 1.5>1.0
DL MSP-YQR SEP 1.9>1.8 OCT 2>1.9
DL MSP-YXE SEP 1.9>1.8 OCT 2>1.9
DL MSP-YYC OCT 4>3
DL ORD-CDG NOV 0.7>0.6 DEC 0.7>0.6 JAN 0.7>0.5 FEB 0.7>0.6
DL SEA-CDG NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.8 FEB 1.0>0.9
DL SLC-BIL OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4
DL SLC-GDL SEP 0.1>0
DL SLC-OAK JAN 3>4
DL SLC-YVR SEP 1.9>1.6 OCT 2>1.5 NOV 1.9>1.7 DEC 2>1.8
DL SLC-YYC SEP 1.8>1.9 OCT 1.9>2

F9 ORD-PUJ JUL 0.2>0

FL ATL-RIC DEC 3>4
WN route route transitions
FL EYW-TPA NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL MCO-EYW NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL MCO-MSP NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL MKE-BOS NOV 3>0.4 DEC 2>0
FL MKE-BWI NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL MKE-FLL NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL MKE-LGA NOV 3>0.3 DEC 3>0
FL MKE-MSP NOV 5>0.4 DEC 5>0
FL MKE-SFO NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0

G4 ATW-AZA DEC 0.3>0.2
G4 AZA-DLH DEC 0.3>0.2
G4 BIL-LAX NOV 0.3>0.1
G4 BLI-HNL NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3
G4 BLI-LAS DEC 3>1.8 JAN 3>1.8 FEB 3>1.9
G4 BLI-OGG NOV 0>0.2 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3
G4 EUG-HNL DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3
G4 FAT-HNL DEC 0.2>0.3 JAN 0.1>0.3 FEB 0.1>0.3
G4 FLL-LEX DEC 0.3>0.2
G4 FLL-PBG JAN 0.6>1.3 FEB 0.6>1.3
G4 FSD-LAX NOV 0.3>0.1
G4 GFK-LAS DEC 0.6>0.4
G4 GFK-SFB DEC 0.3>0.2
G4 GRR-LAS DEC 0.3>0.2
G4 GSP-PIE DEC 0.4>0.3 JAN 0.4>0.3 FEB 0.4>0.3
G4 ILM-SFB DEC 0.3>0.2
G4 LAS-PIA DEC 0.6>0.4
G4 LAS-SGF NOV 0.6>0.4 DEC 0.6>0.4
G4 LAX-MSO NOV 0.3>0.1
G4 LAX-PSC NOV 0.3>0.1
G4 LAX-XNA NOV 0.3>0.1
G4 MRY-HNL DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.1 FEB 0>0.1
G4 OWB-SFB DEC 0.6>0.3 JAN 0.5>0.3 FEB 0.6>0.3
G4 SCK-HNL DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3
G4 SFB-TYS DEC 0.6>0.4
G4 SFB-XNA DEC 0.6>0.4
G4 SMX-HNL DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3

*JL SAN-NRT DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.5 FEB 0>0.6

LA LAX-LIM OCT 1.5>1.8

TS FLL-YQB NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3
TS FLL-YUL NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.5
TS FLL-YYZ NOV 0>0.1
TS MCO-YQB JAN 0>0.1 FEB 0>0.1
TS MCO-YUL NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.6
TS MCO-YWG JAN 0>0.1 FEB 0>0.1
TS MCO-YYZ NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0.1>0.3 JAN 0.2>0.4 FEB 0.1>0.5

UA CLE-FLL DEC 1.3>2
UA CLE-PWM NOV 0.2>0.1 DEC 0.7>0 JAN 0.2>0.1
UA DEN-ABQ NOV 5>6
UA DEN-BIL NOV 4>5
UA DEN-BIS NOV 4>5
UA DEN-CPR NOV 4>5
UA DEN-DFW SEP 5>6
UA DEN-EGE NOV 1.9>1.2
UA DEN-ELP NOV 3>4
UA DEN-FAR NOV 3>4
UA DEN-LAS NOV 4>5
UA DEN-MSN NOV 3>4
UA DEN-OKC NOV 4>5
UA DEN-PDX SEP 4>5 NOV 4>5
UA DEN-TUL NOV 4>5
UA DEN-TUS NOV 5>4
UA EWR-LAS NOV 7>6
UA EWR-PWM OCT 4>5
UA EWR-RDU OCT 7>8
UA EWR-YQB NOV 4>3
UA EWR-YUL NOV 6>5
UA FLL-TCB JUL 1.2>1.3 AUG 1.1>1.3 SEP 1.2>1.3 OCT 1.1>1.3
UA IAD-DTW SEP 3>4
**UA IAH-BPT JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0 OCT 3>0 NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0
UA IAH-BTR OCT 9>8
UA IAH-CLL OCT 6>5 NOV 6>4 DEC 6>4 JAN 6>4 FEB 6>4
UA IAH-COS OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3
UA IAH-GJT OCT 1.5>1.0 NOV 1.6>1.0
UA IAH-GRK OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4
UA IAH-GSP OCT 1.9>3
UA IAH-HSV OCT 4>3
UA IAH-IAD NOV 6>5 DEC 6>5
UA IAH-JAN OCT 5>6
UA IAH-MIA OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 FEB 4>5
UA IAH-MSY OCT 11>10 NOV 11>10
UA IAH-ONT OCT 3>1.9
UA IAH-ORF SEP 1.8>1.0 OCT 1.9>1.0 NOV 1.9>1.0 DEC 2>1.4
UA IAH-RSW OCT 3>1.0 NOV 3>1.9
UA IAH-SJC OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2
UA IAH-SMF OCT 3>2
UA LAX-DEN NOV 8>7
UA LAX-KOA DEC 1.0>1.4
UA ORD-BTV SEP 4>5
UA ORD-DAY SEP 6>7
UA ORD-DLH NOV 1.9>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3
UA ORD-DSM SEP 6>7
UA ORD-DTW SEP 7>8
UA ORD-GSP OCT 3>4
UA ORD-PWM SEP 3>4
UA ORD-RAP SEP 2>3
UA ORD-SPI OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3 JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3
UA ORD-TVC SEP 3>4
UA SFO-IAD DEC 11>10
UA SFO-KOA DEC 2>1.4
UA SFO-KOA NOV 2>1.9 DEC 2>1.4
UA SFO-RDD SEP 4>3

UX JFK-MAD JAN 0.5>0.3 FEB 0.6>0

VW SAT-SLW JUL 0.4>0 AUG 0.5>0 SEP 0.4>0 OCT 0.5>0 NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.4>0

Schedule extension
VX BOS-LAX JAN 0.4>1.6 FEB 0>1.8
VX BOS-SFO JAN 0.6>1.9 FEB 0>1.6
VX DCA-<

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-19 06:04:18 and read 11235 times.

VX DCA-SFO JAN 0.2>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
VX DFW-LAX JAN 0.6>3 FEB 0>3
VX DFW-SFO JAN 0.6>3 FEB 0>3
VX FLL-LAX JAN 0.5>3 FEB 0>3
VX FLL-SFO JAN 0.5>1.8 FEB 0>1.8
VX IAD-LAX JAN 0.5>3 FEB 0>2
VX IAD-SFO JAN 0.8>4 FEB 0>4
VX JFK-LAS JAN 0.2>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
VX JFK-LAX JAN 1.4>6 FEB 0>6
VX JFK-SFO JAN 1.1>5 FEB 0>5
VX LAS-SFO JAN 1.7>8 FEB 0>8
VX LAX-CUN JAN 0.2>0.6 FEB 0>0.6
VX LAX-MCO FEB 0>0.9
VX LAX-ORD JAN 0.6>3 FEB 0>1.9
VX LAX-PDX JAN 0.5>2 FEB 0>2
VX LAX-PHL JAN 0.7>3 FEB 0>2
VX LAX-SEA JAN 0.9>4 FEB 0>4
VX LAX-SFO JAN 1.8>8 FEB 0>8
VX MCO-SFO JAN 0.2>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
VX ORD-SFO JAN 0.7>3 FEB 0>1.7
VX PDX-SFO JAN 0.2>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
VX PHL-SFO JAN 0.5>1.9 FEB 0>1.9
VX PSP-SFO JAN 0.2>1.0 FEB 0>1.1
VX SAN-SFO JAN 1.1>5 FEB 0>4
VX SEA-SFO JAN 0.8>4 FEB 0>4
VX SFO-CUN FEB 0>0.2
VX SFO-PVR JAN 0.2>0.5 FEB 0>0.4
VX SFO-SJD JAN 0.2>0.8 FEB 0>0.7

WP BIL-GGW JUL 0.7>0.2
WP GGW-OLF JUL 1.7>0.6

YV HNL-LIH AUG 8>9
YV HNL-OGG JUL 8>7 OCT 7>8 NOV 7>8 DEC 7>8 JAN 7>8 FEB 7>8
YV LIH-HNL AUG 8>9
YV LIH-OGG JUL 1.3>1.0 AUG 1.4>1.0
YV OGG-HNL JUL 8>7 OCT 7>8 NOV 7>8 DEC 7>8 JAN 7>8 FEB 7>8
YV OGG-LIH JUL 1.3>1.0 AUG 1.4>1.0

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2012-06-19 06:34:56 and read 10975 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA DFW-PNS SEP 5>6 OCT 5>6 NOV 5>6 DEC 5>6 JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6

Glad to see PNS keep the 6th flight.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**DL ATL-SWF SEP 1.8>0 OCT 1.9>0 NOV 1.8>0 DEC 1.9>0 JAN 2>0 FEB 2>0

So much for SWF as the fourth NYC airport. They can't maintain any service.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LGA-OMA SEP 0.8>0.1 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0

I figured this one might work, but apparently not.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**UA IAH-BPT JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0 OCT 3>0 NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0

This leaves BPT with no airline service. It joins the ranks of many other small cities that have lost all air service.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-19 06:42:04 and read 10938 times.

Is it just me or is UA at DEN getting some adds and IAH is getting some cuts?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: WA707atMSP
Posted 2012-06-19 06:43:51 and read 10940 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA LAX-BNA SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

So much for all the ANet rumours that "AA will have to drop LAX-BNA soon".......

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: kngkyle
Posted 2012-06-19 07:03:11 and read 10825 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 3):
Is it just me or is UA at DEN getting some adds and IAH is getting some cuts?

Not just you. DEN and ORD growing, IAH shrinking. The start of UA following through with their 10% IAH capacity cut?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-19 07:09:19 and read 10774 times.

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 5):

I guess so. I just didn't believe them initially. Good for DEN though -- after many months of trims.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-19 08:28:46 and read 10396 times.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**DL ATL-SWF SEP 1.8>0 OCT 1.9>0 NOV 1.8>0 DEC 1.9>0 JAN 2>0 FEB 2>0
So much for SWF as the fourth NYC airport. They can't maintain any service.

I just something about the P of NYNJ launching an effort for SWF. I guess that's not working out. They need an LCC.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LGA-OMA SEP 0.8>0.1 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0

I figured this one might work, but apparently not.

Is F9 flying OMA-DCA or LGA still?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**UA IAH-BPT JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0 OCT 3>0 NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0

This leaves BPT with no airline service. It joins the ranks of many other small cities that have lost all air service.

EAS?

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 3):
Is it just me or is UA at DEN getting some adds and IAH is getting some cuts?

Well, DEN gave them $22m per year in rent breaks screwing the other airlines and HOU has pissed them off. Of course, IAH is almost certainly way more profitable than DEN, but lets not make decisions based on profits.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 4):

So much for all the ANet rumours that "AA will have to drop LAX-BNA soon".......

Rumors are often just...

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: FlyingSicilian
Posted 2012-06-19 08:42:31 and read 10312 times.

Surprised about the Beaumont cuts.
Victoria did not surprise me that much but the "Golden Triangle" area will probably go after AA to DFW now or even DL to ATL I'd presume.

Turkish Airlines added IAH-IST for 1 APril 13

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-19 08:43:43 and read 10313 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):

How did they screw the other airlines by giving UA 22 mill in rent breaks? Also, I beg the differ over IAH. I don't think everything they fly is profitable.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-06-19 08:57:20 and read 10223 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
I just something about the P of NYNJ launching an effort for SWF. I guess that's not working out. They need an LCC.

They have B6. SWF is never going to be a valid alternative NYC airport. It's 60 miles North of NYC, the population bands around the NYC metropolitan areas flow East/West from Suffolk County on Long Island and Fairfield County in Connecticut through NYC and West through New Jersey. Orange County NY (SWF) 60 miles North is outside the population band of the NYC area.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-06-19 09:57:30 and read 10000 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS OGG-SAN NOV 1.6>1.1 DEC 1.6>1.0 JAN 1.6>1.0 FEB 1.6>1.0
*AS OGG-SMF NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.4>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0
AS PDX-OGG NOV 1.5>1.9 DEC 1.5>2 JAN 1.6>2 FEB 1.6>2


Although nothing was ever said (by AS) about this additional SAN/SMF-Maui capacity being seasonal (or temporary) when it was added, I assumed it might be. (In fact nothing was ever said about the added capacity, period!) Some of the lift is obviously going to PDX-OGG for the winter which makes sense.

Or maybe it was simply too many seats in those two non-competitive markets. In any case, it was great to see it while it lasted.

(And I continue to hope that if some ETOPS-a/c time again becomes available next year, AS will use some of it to launch SAN to KOA and LIH...)

bb

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-06-19 10:08:02 and read 9908 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 SJU-SDQ SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5 NOV 5>6 DEC 5>6 JAN 5>6 FEB 1.9>3

Guess the flights are doing well

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**UA IAH-BPT JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0 OCT 3>0 NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0

I have flown this many times and it was always full. but I doubt they were making nay money. BPT is practically a suburb of houston these days and will all the security lines etc...may just be faster and cheaper to drive now.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-06-19 11:53:48 and read 9562 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*JL SAN-NRT DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.5 FEB 0>0.6

787 route. Glad to see this finally loaded!


Also not loaded yet, the BA flight from LHR to PHX is going to be increased to daily starting in december (see my other thread)

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-19 12:12:05 and read 9493 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):

How did they screw the other airlines by giving UA 22 mill in rent breaks? Also, I beg the differ over IAH. I don't think everything they fly is profitable.
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...02/denver-council-panel-backs.html
United Airlines could cut its annual lease payments to Denver International Airport by $22 million a year if it ramps up its traffic at the airport, according to a deal backed Wednesday by a Denver City Council committee.
The deal is structured so that DEN-NRT and a few other tiny things meet the requirement.

Heck estimated that of DIA's other major airlines, Frontier Airlines is likely to see its annual lease payments reduced by $2 million under the deal and Southwest Airlines is likely to save $1 million.
http://www.denverpost.com/businessheadlines/ci_20598032?source%3DAP
The service increase requirement "raises the question of whether the relief United is receiving is essentially a United-centric marketing incentive masquerading as a facilities deal," wrote Robert Ashcroft, Frontier's senior vice president of finance.
The agreement was approved, Tokyo was announced the next day, and F9/WN said they would go to FAA. A DIA spokesperson said go for it.

In order to do this, they took an excess of PFC money and used it to pay off debt for projects that 88% benefited UA. Additionally, WN is now the largest O&D airline at DIA. Since customer parking is typically the largest generator of airport revenue, it is hard to imagine how UA would get 88% of the money.

Also, how about this one...DEN's PFC funds were originally fully committed. The huge surge in service by WN (F9 and UA are down from their peak) directly resulted in the PFC excess that was used to pay off UA's debt. So, the airport used revenue raised essentially exclusively from WN customers to pay off debt 88% benefiting UA.

Meanwhile, UA complains they got a raw deal in Houston. ROTFL

Doug Parker had a study recently showing IAH was one of the most profitable hubs in the USA. DEN is clearly a warzone with three carriers fighting. It was not on the list. Is "everything" profitable at IAH? Of course not. There's always a mix, but on the whole it makes a lot of money.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
They have B6.

Forgot about that. They barely fly there, though, right?

Quoting SANFan (Reply 11):
SAN/SMF-Maui capacity being seasonal (or temporary) when it was added, I assumed it might be.

Winter is peak, right? So it isn't a seasonal adjustment.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: ckfred
Posted 2012-06-19 13:16:46 and read 9303 times.

I don't get why in the fall and winter, AA is cutting R/Ts between ORD and DFW. Considering the feed into the DFW hub, as well as the need to reroute people due to snow in Chicago, cutting down R/Ts doesn't make sense.

By the same token, adding a R/T on ORD-SEA in the fall also doesn't make sense. The cruise ship season ends in September. You would think that would take the schedule down 1 R/T.

And reducing ORD-MIA doesn't make sense. Considering that MIA is growing as a connection hub, and the amount of cruise traffic out of MIA, reducing the schedule makes no sense.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-19 13:23:40 and read 9278 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Doug Parker had a study recently showing IAH was one of the most profitable hubs in the USA.

IAH needs better optimization. Stop flying the E145s to every point in the southeast and the countless 738s to South America. They also don't fly to nearly all the Latam destinations the could possibly fly to like AA does out of MIA.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Also, how about this one...DEN's PFC funds were originally fully committed. The huge surge in service by WN (F9 and UA are down from their peak) directly resulted in the PFC excess that was used to pay off UA's debt. So, the airport used revenue raised essentially exclusively from WN customers to pay off debt 88% benefiting UA.

I mean, United has had a hub in Denver for how many years? Southwest, only a few...

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-06-19 14:42:14 and read 9042 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 16):
They also don't fly to nearly all the Latam destinations the could possibly fly to like AA does out of MIA.

But they fly to pretty much everyone that can be profitable from IAH....they even tried some like CLO for a few years but had to cut them.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-06-19 14:45:33 and read 9036 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 16):
Stop flying the E145s to every point in the southeast and the countless 738s to South America.

You could give the same advice regarding ATL to DL and would make just as much sense, none.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-06-19 17:22:06 and read 8395 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 15):

I don't get why in the fall and winter, AA is cutting R/Ts between ORD and DFW. Considering the feed into the DFW hub, as well as the need to reroute people due to snow in Chicago, cutting down R/Ts doesn't make sense.

By the same token, adding a R/T on ORD-SEA in the fall also doesn't make sense. The cruise ship season ends in September. You would think that would take the schedule down 1 R/T.

And reducing ORD-MIA doesn't make sense. Considering that MIA is growing as a connection hub, and the amount of cruise traffic out of MIA, reducing the schedule makes no sense.

I suspect that the reason for the cuts is the lower demand for travel in general in the fall and winter. They may adjust the schedules to make up for the cut flights.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-06-19 17:59:26 and read 8200 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS PDX-OGG NOV 1.5>1.9 DEC 1.5>2 JAN 1.6>2 FEB 1.6>2

Looks like AS is taking good advantage of HA dropping this route earlier in the year. Thanks to AS for increasing frequency.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-06-19 18:01:49 and read 8191 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 20):
Looks like AS is taking good advantage of HA dropping this route earlier in the year. Thanks to AS for increasing frequency.

Was that HA route usually empty? Because a 767 is quite a bit different in the seat count than a couple of 737s (depending on the model, of course)

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-06-19 18:31:47 and read 8016 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 21):
Was that HA route usually empty? Because a 767 is quite a bit different in the seat count than a couple of 737s (depending on the model, of course)

I don't think it was running empty, but obviously HA felt the aircraft would be better used flying OAK-OGG 4x weekly and SJC 3x weekly. I do agree 2 738's are lesser seats than a 738 and a 763 daily, maybe 2 738's is the right amount of lift.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: mke717spotter
Posted 2012-06-19 20:08:45 and read 7544 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WN route route transitions
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
FL MKE-LGA NOV 3>0.3 DEC 3>0

Even I'm somewhat surprised that they haven't moved one or two of these flights to another city yet. I'm confident that they'll keep at least a few of the MKE-DCA/LGA flights, but if we do indeed lose some LGA it'd be nice if they added EWR in exchange.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: knope2001
Posted 2012-06-19 20:58:57 and read 7309 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LGA-OMA SEP 0.8>0.1 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0

I figured this one might work, but apparently not.
Is F9 flying OMA-DCA or LGA still?

Yup to OMA-DCA....essentially the same twice-daily schedule that legacy YX started in 1995.
Nope to OMA-LGA...that one F9/YX never flew. OMA-EWR on YX ran from roughly 1995 to 2002 1x/day but was killed when CO* came into OMA-EWR with multiple RJ's.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: B595
Posted 2012-06-19 21:03:34 and read 7375 times.

The recent thread about B6 cancelling BTV-MCO appears to have been deleted. Is this because the BTV-MCO cancellation was unsubstantiated? Anyone know?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-06-19 21:20:18 and read 7288 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Winter is peak, right? So it isn't a seasonal adjustment.

PDX-HI would undoubtedly be peak season in the winter but I would expect SAN-HI is busier in the summer. (SMF-OGG I have no idea.)

In any case, AS apparently knows that the a/c will be more productive from PDX to Maui than from California in the winter (especially since they have the Oregon market to themselves now.)

bb

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2012-06-19 21:28:56 and read 7354 times.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**DL ATL-SWF SEP 1.8>0 OCT 1.9>0 NOV 1.8>0 DEC 1.9>0 JAN 2>0 FEB 2>0

So much for SWF as the fourth NYC airport. They can't maintain any service.

Well they are keeping DTW-SWF, but that can be flown with 50 seat RJs. Due to the distance under DL's rules, ATL-SWF needs to be flown with a 2-class RJ.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: stburke
Posted 2012-06-19 22:01:05 and read 7252 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):


Wow, I had no idea any of this was going on. I'll be sure to dig in to this one. It's a bit odd they'd add one daily to BIS as well as FAR after F9 had just started it. Likely all CR2. I know western ND is booming but this may be to also put a squeeze on F9 in the ND-DEN market.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: gigneil
Posted 2012-06-19 22:03:06 and read 7277 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Of course, IAH is almost certainly way more profitable than DEN, but lets not make decisions based on profits

That's crap. Houston was scheduled as if it were the only hub west of New York. It no longer is.

Now it's being scheduled for what it is - a moderately strong O/D airport that's totally out of the way for just about every connecting pair in the US with some good facilities and a lot of really subpar ones.

NS.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: FlyingSicilian
Posted 2012-06-19 22:36:35 and read 7162 times.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 29):
That's crap. Houston was scheduled as if it were the only hub west of New York. It no longer is.

Now it's being scheduled for what it is - a moderately strong O/D airport that's totally out of the way for just about every connecting pair in the US with some good facilities and a lot of really subpar ones.

NS.



that's "crap" too as you call it. It is (depending on survey source dates) the highest or one of the highest air fare markets in the country for o/d with a strong premium and last minute fare demand. Raw numbers it is not top 10 but premium is very strong. It is not out of the way for Southern California, or the Southwest, to Florida, NOLA, or much of the Southeast, which is a large catchment area. Is it great for SFO-BOS? of course not, but it has its feed, not to mention Mexico traffic. Terminal E is a great facility with an outstanding club, and B will be fixed soon enough.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: SCL767
Posted 2012-06-19 22:42:55 and read 7128 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA LAX-LIM OCT 1.5>1.8

LA LIM-LAX 1.4>1.9 LAN increases LIM-LAX to 13x weekly in October.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-06-20 02:46:23 and read 6842 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
especially since they have the Oregon market to themselves now

Well except our daily HA 763 running to HNL, in the past we have seen, NW, PA, BN, UA, CO. Now just AS & HA.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: drerx7
Posted 2012-06-20 06:00:32 and read 6470 times.

Quoting kngkyle (Reply 5):
The start of UA following through with their 10% IAH capacity cut?
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
I guess so. I just didn't believe them initially. Good for DEN though -- after many months of trims.

Smoke and mirrors my friends...smoke and mirrors. Every time this thread comes up we have these discussions. These are the annual seasonal reductions as well as the draw down of Colgan and the legitimate right sizing of the hub. If you look at the routes being cut, a good portion of them are tied to Colgan. Others are seasonal cuts - particularly out to the west coast. One thing about DEN, even though they have had adds - IAH and DEN have swapped a good number of 757 & 738/739. So I don't know what the net change is between the two to be perfectly honest. The 757 is a very slight addition in seats compared to the 737s.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**UA IAH-BPT JUL 3>0 AUG 3>0 SEP 3>0 OCT 3>0 NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0
UA IAH-BTR OCT 9>8
UA IAH-CLL OCT 6>5 NOV 6>4 DEC 6>4 JAN 6>4 FEB 6>4
UA IAH-COS OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3
UA IAH-GJT OCT 1.5>1.0 NOV 1.6>1.0
UA IAH-GRK OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4
UA IAH-GSP OCT 1.9>3
UA IAH-HSV OCT 4>3
UA IAH-IAD NOV 6>5 DEC 6>5
UA IAH-JAN OCT 5>6
UA IAH-MIA OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 FEB 4>5
UA IAH-MSY OCT 11>10 NOV 11>10
UA IAH-ONT OCT 3>1.9
UA IAH-ORF SEP 1.8>1.0 OCT 1.9>1.0 NOV 1.9>1.0 DEC 2>1.4
UA IAH-RSW OCT 3>1.0 NOV 3>1.9
UA IAH-SJC OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2
UA IAH-SMF OCT 3>2
Quoting gigneil (Reply 29):
That's crap. Houston was scheduled as if it were the only hub west of New York. It no longer is.

Now it's being scheduled for what it is - a moderately strong O/D airport that's totally out of the way for just about every connecting pair in the US with some good facilities and a lot of really subpar ones.

Yeah, this is an old dying b.s. argument. The only subpar portion of IAH is really Terminal B. Its not out of the way especially when considering people travel based on miles and fares. The other thing is it is documented that IAH is one of the most profitable hubs in the country. For UA EWR is more profitable...followed by IAH. I'm surprised our delete happy mods don't erase your response for pure opinion and conjecture.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-20 06:16:46 and read 6409 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 16):
Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Doug Parker had a study recently showing IAH was one of the most profitable hubs in the USA.

IAH needs better optimization. Stop flying the E145s to every point in the southeast and the countless 738s to South America. They also don't fly to nearly all the Latam destinations the could possibly fly to like AA does out of MIA.

Well, whenever the airline is truly fleet combined they can run a FAM (Fleet Assignment Model) and fix those types of problems.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 16):
Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Also, how about this one...DEN's PFC funds were originally fully committed. The huge surge in service by WN (F9 and UA are down from their peak) directly resulted in the PFC excess that was used to pay off UA's debt. So, the airport used revenue raised essentially exclusively from WN customers to pay off debt 88% benefiting UA.

I mean, United has had a hub in Denver for how many years? Southwest, only a few...

The United PFC funds were already committed to other projects...and I suspect those projects were approved by United. The funds used did not take back to the 1980s, they were generated in just the last few years from WN's unexpectedly large operation.

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 23):
Even I'm somewhat surprised that they haven't moved one or two of these flights to another city yet.

I am kind of surprised, but DL/RJET is still on the route --- it just changed branding.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 24):
Yup to OMA-DCA....essentially the same twice-daily schedule that legacy YX started in 1995.
Nope to OMA-LGA...that one F9/YX never flew.

It seems like F9 has no idea what to do with its slots, but keeps asking for more.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
I would expect SAN-HI is busier in the summer.

Why? SAN may be warmer than PDX, but the weather in Hawaii is the same. SAN isn't great in the Winter and Spring compared to Hawaii. Are you saying people in SAN go to Hawaii in the Summer because it is cooler than SAN? That's a pretty unusual travel pattern. Possible, though...

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 27):
Well they are keeping DTW-SWF, but that can be flown with 50 seat RJs. Due to the distance under DL's rules, ATL-SWF needs to be flown with a 2-class RJ.

Those rules are kind of ridiculous.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 29):
That's crap. Houston was scheduled as if it were the only hub west of New York. It no longer is.

Now it's being scheduled for what it is - a moderately strong O/D airport that's totally out of the way for just about every connecting pair in the US with some good facilities and a lot of really subpar ones.

I suppose MIA is also an awful hub? It's terribly positioned to carry U.S. domestic traffic. Oh wait, U.S. carriers couldn't care less about carrying domestic traffic...now, why was that? I remember...because the yields internationally are sooo much better. So, would you rather have a hub in Iowa that serves the East-West low yield domestic market, but is perfectly geographically positioned or an oil-rich hub sitting at the tip of the USA directly on the way to one of the least competitive, highest yield markets left?

BTW, let's also ignore any sort of yield data or Wall Street analyst coverage of hubs or anything else and just pronounce it baselessly as "crap".

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 30):
the highest or one of the highest air fare markets in the country for o/d with a strong premium and last minute fare demand.

  

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: ScottB
Posted 2012-06-20 09:08:12 and read 6204 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
They have B6.

Forgot about that. They barely fly there, though, right?

B6 maintains enough presence at SWF to dissuade other potential LCC's from entering the market. For the northern fringes of the NYC metro, SWF is an alternative to HPN/LGA/EWR and less so JFK.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
SWF is never going to be a valid alternative NYC airport. It's 60 miles North of NYC, the population bands around the NYC metropolitan areas flow East/West from Suffolk County on Long Island and Fairfield County in Connecticut through NYC and West through New Jersey. Orange County NY (SWF) 60 miles North is outside the population band of the NYC area.

It won't ever be a NYC airport, but the counties of Orange, Dutchess, Ulster, and Putnam (assuming no one from Rockland would use SWF) together have just under one million inhabitants -- and that's a very respectable population base. And with the completion of the new access road, SWF is pretty easy to get to. The bigger issue is that none of the big players at the NYC airports + HPN (speaking to B6 at the latter) really benefit from having a station at SWF, as anyone that might use SWF would drive to one of the NYC airports or potentially ALB if there were little to no service at SWF.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 12):
BPT is practically a suburb of houston these days and will all the security lines etc...may just be faster and cheaper to drive now.

BPT is hardly a suburb or even a satellite city of Houston -- there's still a LOT of nothing on I-10 between Mont Belvieu and Beaumont. The population of Chambers County (immediately east of Harris County on the way to Beaumont) is still only 35,000. But I suspect the completion of the final (northeast) leg of the Sam Houston Tollway has made the drive easier from points east. However, I'm sure the excuse from UA is that the future international service at HOU has rendered BPT unprofitable. I suppose CLL is next.

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Also, how about this one...DEN's PFC funds were originally fully committed. The huge surge in service by WN (F9 and UA are down from their peak) directly resulted in the PFC excess that was used to pay off UA's debt. So, the airport used revenue raised essentially exclusively from WN customers to pay off debt 88% benefiting UA.

Not just this, but in general the airport is supposed to be run more or less at break-even (with allowances for capital projects), since airport revenues by Federal law can't flow back to the City's general fund. So reductions in rent which disproportionally (as a percentage share of airport traffic) benefit one carrier are essentially taking away from end-of-year refunds which are paid out proportionally to all carriers. And UA is getting a special deal in that the airport is letting them out of long-term leases for that space.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-20 09:41:09 and read 6162 times.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 29):

What's so bad about this post? He's got a point, IAH was quickly becoming second fiddle to EWR in the last years with CO.

Quoting enilria (Reply 34):
The funds used did not take back to the 1980s, they were generated in just the last few years from WN's unexpectedly large operation.

I don't know -- I really don't find it to be a problem for UA to get extra the extra revenue from DEN. WN will be strong no matter what, I'm sure they really don't give a crap about this. Frontier might be dead in a year or two.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-06-20 09:48:29 and read 6135 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 36):
He's got a point, IAH was quickly becoming second fiddle to EWR in the last years with CO.

I think it's the opposite, Terminal E came after EWR's Global Gateway investment. Also the $1 Billion dollar renovation of Terminal B at IAH was announced within the last two years. Almost all of CO's major capital investment has been into IAH in the past ten years, their first 787 routes were announced as originating in IAH.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-06-20 10:15:50 and read 6069 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 32):
Well except our daily HA 763 running to HNL, in the past we have seen, NW, PA, BN, UA, CO. Now just AS & HA.

I was refering to the current status of Maui service to/from PDX.  
Quoting enilria (Reply 34):
Why? SAN may be warmer than PDX, but the weather in Hawaii is the same. SAN isn't great in the Winter and Spring compared to Hawaii. Are you saying people in SAN go to Hawaii in the Summer because it is cooler than SAN? That's a pretty unusual travel pattern. Possible, though...

I'm saying more people go to Hawaii in the summer because it's "vacation time" and people simply travel more then. The rest of the year, SAN's climate is moderate enough that San Diegans aren't "needing" to get away from the cold, rainy, snowy, lousy weather to warmer climes. There's fairly consistent travel year-round (as with most markets from SAN) with a bit of a bulge from May through September.

bb

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: drerx7
Posted 2012-06-20 11:09:27 and read 5991 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 35):
BPT is hardly a suburb or even a satellite city of Houston -- there's still a LOT of nothing on I-10 between Mont Belvieu and Beaumont. The population of Chambers County (immediately east of Harris County on the way to Beaumont) is still only 35,000. But I suspect the completion of the final (northeast) leg of the Sam Houston Tollway has made the drive easier from points east. However, I'm sure the excuse from UA is that the future international service at HOU has rendered BPT unprofitable. I suppose CLL is next.

Well, CLL has always had 'heavier' equipment. VCT is the one that is next. BPT is now going to be a BUS route per the local BPT news outlet, this is tied to the Colgan debacle. That was Beumont's only air service...a shame.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 36):
What's so bad about this post? He's got a point, IAH was quickly becoming second fiddle to EWR in the last years with CO.

Besides it being factually incorrect, your statement is tied to CO's lack of aircraft. All the 752s were tied to the majority of the EWR expansion. With the 787s on the horizon and more 739s the attention began to return to IAH. Besides, CO's stagnancy at IAH fostered international growth by foreign carriers.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
I think it's the opposite, Terminal E came after EWR's Global Gateway investment. Also the $1 Billion dollar renovation of Terminal B at IAH was announced within the last two years. Almost all of CO's major capital investment has been into IAH in the past ten years, their first 787 routes were announced as originating in IAH.

Exactly.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: ScottB
Posted 2012-06-20 11:46:43 and read 5925 times.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 39):
BPT is now going to be a BUS route per the local BPT news outlet, this is tied to the Colgan debacle. That was Beumont's only air service...a shame.

It is a shame if a community is measuring itself based on the availability of air service locally, but frankly a bus service from Beaumont is probably more cost-effective and can likely support greater frequency. Three daily round-trips to IAH don't really provide much schedule flexibility, and the time saved by flying over ground transportation is at most an hour when everything goes perfectly.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-06-20 11:55:19 and read 5920 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 40):
It is a shame if a community is measuring itself based on the availability of air service locally, but frankly a bus service from Beaumont is probably more cost-effective and can likely support greater frequency. Three daily round-trips to IAH don't really provide much schedule flexibility, and the time saved by flying over ground transportation is at most an hour when everything goes perfectly.

CO went to a bus service between Allentown and EWR years ago, it replaced their multiple daily EM2 flights. Its a bit further than Beaumont-IAH.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-06-20 14:01:25 and read 5756 times.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 2):
So much for SWF as the fourth NYC airport. They can't maintain any service.

They still have DTW service, though any connections to the Southeast US are pretty much gone. ATL has connections to Florida destinations that aren't accessible by B6 and now the chances of needing a double connection are higher. Either that or drive to HPN or ALB.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
I just something about the P of NYNJ launching an effort for SWF. I guess that's not working out. They need an LCC.

They have B6, but they even drastically cut their service since they've been there. Delta brought back ATL upon AirTran's arrival and it survived for years after. I have the feeling Delta will bring ATL back again some day down the line because something always causes them to do so.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: Schweigend
Posted 2012-06-20 23:01:54 and read 5410 times.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 29):
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Of course, IAH is almost certainly way more profitable than DEN, but lets not make decisions based on profits

That's crap. Houston was scheduled as if it were the only hub west of New York. It no longer is.

Now it's being scheduled for what it is - a moderately strong O/D airport that's totally out of the way for just about every connecting pair in the US with some good facilities and a lot of really subpar ones.

NS.

I'm glad you said that. As United discovers how routing some connecting pax over other hubs is more economical, IAH's O/D percentage should increase, even if flight numbers go down. But IAH will still be a good place for connections from the Southwest U.S. to the East Coast and from the SE to the West Coast, and from just about everywhere to Mexico, Central America, and parts of South America.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 39):
BPT is now going to be a BUS route per the local BPT news outlet

This surprised me, but I'm glad they kept the route. United.com shows the schedule from 1 July as:

FLT NBR - - - - - BPT-IAH - - - - - - - - IAH-BPT
6545 / 6546- - - 0545-0745 - - - - - - 0815-1015
6546 / 6547- - - 1040-1240 - - - - - - 1330-1510
6547 / 6548- - - 1535-1735 - - - - - - 1930-2130

A two-hour block time per ride, and it looks as if one bus could do for the whole day. Hopefully, a spare bus will be on hand for MX issues, and some kind of drinks service will be provided.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-06-21 03:48:24 and read 5286 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 38):

I'm saying more people go to Hawaii in the summer because it's "vacation time" and people simply travel more then. The rest of the year, SAN's climate is moderate enough that San Diegans aren't "needing" to get away from the cold, rainy, snowy, lousy weather to warmer climes. There's fairly consistent travel year-round (as with most markets from SAN) with a bit of a bulge from May through September.

Well SAN is where I'd go if I wanted to go to Hawaii, and didn't have the time or money for the Islands. I am not familiar with the travel patterns of those living in the SAN area, but just like everyone else, you need to get away once in a while no matter where you live. When I lived in Hawaii, I took a Caribbean cruise and visited Florida, New Orleans, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Disney, As well as SEL, BKK & SIN.

But no matter where I've been, nothing is as special to me as Hawaii, it feels like home from the first time I stepped off that NW 742 in Aug 1979, from then on I have been back 25+ times and never, ever tire of anything, (except the tourists) Even the cost of living is a fair trade off I made for over 2 years of my life.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-21 06:36:14 and read 5166 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 35):
So reductions in rent which disproportionally (as a percentage share of airport traffic) benefit one carrier are essentially taking away from end-of-year refunds which are paid out proportionally to all carriers.

It's unfair in a lot of ways, although PFC excesses are not paid back under a residual agreement. Nevertheless, they could have committed the funds to paying down debt equitably.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 36):
I don't know -- I really don't find it to be a problem for UA to get extra the extra revenue from DEN. WN will be strong no matter what, I'm sure they really don't give a crap about this. Frontier might be dead in a year or two.

WN does give a crap and already said they intend to complain to FAA. Nobody can afford to give money away these days.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: joeljack
Posted 2012-06-21 07:45:38 and read 5085 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LGA-OMA SEP 0.8>0.1 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.8>0 JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0

I wonder if this will go seasonal? It's been mainly a CR7 during slow months and a E175 during busy months. So there is a little demand saying the plane gets bigger during the summer. I know, loads are no indication of profitability but flights are pretty full from March-August every year (packed in June!). Seems like a seasonal March-August could work. In addition, fares are always high on this route...consistent $400+ for the nonstop, many times much more.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: FlyingSicilian
Posted 2012-06-21 08:37:49 and read 4987 times.

Where does the bus go in Beaumont? The airport or downtown? Will it leave from a gate area or from outside one of the terminals at IAH?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-21 08:58:10 and read 4953 times.

Quoting joeljack (Reply 46):
I wonder if this will go seasonal? It's been mainly a CR7 during slow months and a E175 during busy months.

I'd doubt it as slots in LGA do not encourage seasonal ops (they can't have more flights in the Summer vs. the Winter), but it is possible they could shift it with Florida, maybe...

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: DLX737200
Posted 2012-06-21 09:03:54 and read 4946 times.

Sorry to see OMA lose it's nonstop to LGA. I worked many of those flights up until my leaving OMA and always enjoyed nonreving on the nonstop flight, especially if I got first class on the weekends.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: drerx7
Posted 2012-06-21 11:05:42 and read 4834 times.

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 47):
Where does the bus go in Beaumont? The airport or downtown? Will it leave from a gate area or from outside one of the terminals at IAH?

It leaves from the airport in Beaumont...now once it gets to IAH...no clue. I would hope at the very least it would go airside.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: TSS
Posted 2012-06-21 21:10:52 and read 4531 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA LAX-RNO SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4

I'm guessing this will be just an additional ERJ per day, right?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: smoot4208
Posted 2012-06-21 21:37:14 and read 4499 times.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA DFW-MZT SEP 0.2>0 OCT 0.1>0

Wonder if this is ending for good, or just a cut during the off season?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: boilerla
Posted 2012-06-21 22:52:10 and read 4446 times.

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 30):
that's "crap" too as you call it. It is (depending on survey source dates) the highest or one of the highest air fare markets in the country for o/d with a strong premium and last minute fare demand. Raw numbers it is not top 10 but premium is very strong.

The city of Houston ranks #14 in the top O/D markets, which is smaller than all of the other cities that have UA hubs, including DEN. Houston, for a city of its size, has very poor O&D traffic.
The 52 Largest Domestic O&D Markets (by MAH4546 Mar 26 2008 in Civil Aviation)

Quote:

It is not out of the way for Southern California, or the Southwest, to Florida, NOLA, or much of the Southeast, which is a large catchment area. Is it great for SFO-BOS? of course not, but it has its feed, not to mention Mexico traffic. Terminal E is a great facility with an outstanding club, and B will be fixed soon enough.

It is very out of the way for SoCal unless you are going ot the southeast, which is not very many routes. How many high paying (e.g. profitable) customers go from LAX-BHM? On the other hand, routes to the midwest are better served by DEN, and other routes to the east coast, you have ORD. As a person that flies LAX-midwest/east coast at least monthly, I absolutely hate when UA tries to route me through IAH.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 33):
Yeah, this is an old dying b.s. argument. The only subpar portion of IAH is really Terminal B. Its not out of the way especially when considering people travel based on miles and fares.

It is out of the way for O&D traffic. The city's wealthiest customers are closer to Hobby, not IAH, and the city's large corporations are far away from everything. ORD and LAX for examples are near those cities' wealthiest populations and largest corporations.

Remember, CO needed you to fly through IAH if they wanted to get you anywhere outside of the east coast. UA has ORD, LAX, DEN and SFO for that, while CO had a very weak set of hubs. IAH is a good southeast hub, but isn't needed for every route west of Chicago.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: drerx7
Posted 2012-06-22 05:19:34 and read 4275 times.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
The city of Houston ranks #14 in the top O/D markets, which is smaller than all of the other cities that have UA hubs, including DEN. Houston, for a city of its size, has very poor O&D traffic.
The 52 Largest Domestic O&D Markets (by MAH4546 Mar 26 2008 in Civil Aviation)

True, that doesn't account for the higher yields that Houston generates.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
It is very out of the way for SoCal unless you are going ot the southeast, which is not very many routes. How many high paying (e.g. profitable) customers go from LAX-BHM? On the other hand, routes to the midwest are better served by DEN, and other routes to the east coast, you have ORD. As a person that flies LAX-midwest/east coast at least monthly, I absolutely hate when UA tries to route me through IAH.

The southeast is a very large and lucrative region as many of the ATL fanboys like to point out. It makes more sense to route the lower yielding traffic via the lower yielding DEN and leave IAH open to its higher yielding O&D and international connections.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
It is out of the way for O&D traffic. The city's wealthiest customers are closer to Hobby, not IAH, and the city's large corporations are far away from everything. ORD and LAX for examples are near those cities' wealthiest populations and largest corporations.

Well - besides this statement being factually incorrect, it has no bearing or relevance whatsoever in regards to Houston passengers utilizing IAH.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
Remember, CO needed you to fly through IAH if they wanted to get you anywhere outside of the east coast. UA has ORD, LAX, DEN and SFO for that, while CO had a very weak set of hubs. IAH is a good southeast hub, but isn't needed for every route west of Chicago.

This is not a point that is being contested. The issue is that people like to say IAH is out the way blah blah blah and DEN is better for connections blah blah blah - that's fine. The fact is that IAH is more profitable than DEN due to the higher yields and the lack of competition...unlike the 3 way battle at DEN.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-22 06:25:51 and read 4204 times.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 52):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA DFW-MZT SEP 0.2>0 OCT 0.1>0

Wonder if this is ending for good, or just a cut during the off season?

At this point it is only a seasonal termination.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 54):
Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
The city of Houston ranks #14 in the top O/D markets, which is smaller than all of the other cities that have UA hubs, including DEN. Houston, for a city of its size, has very poor O&D traffic.
The 52 Largest Domestic O&D Markets (by MAH4546 Mar 26 2008 in Civil Aviation)

True, that doesn't account for the higher yields that Houston generates.

DEN is only much larger because it is highly stimulated with a three way war driving prices down.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 54):
The southeast is a very large and lucrative region as many of the ATL fanboys like to point out. It makes more sense to route the lower yielding traffic via the lower yielding DEN and leave IAH open to its higher yielding O&D and international connections.

Yes, I don't see why people in this thread speak of IAH's geography as a domestic hub as a detriment when it's geography as an international hub is fantastic. Newsflash, legacies don't care about domestic traffic. Where are people bemoaning MIA's inability to carry PHX-MIA-BOS? Neither MIA nor IAH live and die on domestic traffic...that's why they are both extremely profitable. IAH more so because the costs aren't crazy like in MIA.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 54):
The fact is that IAH is more profitable than DEN due to the higher yields and the lack of competition

Exactly + the fact that DEN has basically no international which is why it is so susceptible to LCC competition.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: HPRamper
Posted 2012-06-22 07:06:47 and read 4148 times.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
It is very out of the way for SoCal unless you are going ot the southeast, which is not very many routes. How many high paying (e.g. profitable) customers go from LAX-BHM? On the other hand, routes to the midwest are better served by DEN, and other routes to the east coast, you have ORD. As a person that flies LAX-midwest/east coast at least monthly, I absolutely hate when UA tries to route me through IAH.

As far as pure distance to the east coast goes, LAX-DEN-xxx is shorter than LAX-IAH-xxx when xxx sits roughly around RDU. Anywhere south of that line, LAX-IAH will be a shorter routing.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-22 07:27:27 and read 4121 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 55):
Yes, I don't see why people in this thread speak of IAH's geography as a domestic hub as a detriment when it's geography as an international hub is fantastic.

It's OK at best. It's too out of the way for connections to Europe (although UA does have a decent network for that at IAH), limited for connections to Asia, and is not fully optimized to deep South America. The fact that they don't serve SCL says a lot. At most there is only one bank a day to deep South America when the market can easily handle 2. Southeast to Southwest connections as a domestic hub are great (if you lived in PBI going to SAN for instance) but otherwise it makes more sense to connect in the other United hubs (if you lived in BWI and were going to SEA.)

I'd say DFW beats out IAH without even trying very hard. IAH's major strength is it has a very impressive Mexico and Northern Latam network.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-06-22 07:38:33 and read 4106 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 57):
I'd say DFW beats out IAH without even trying very hard.

  IAH has almost twice as many seats and departures as DFW to Latin America.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-06-22 08:01:55 and read 4065 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 58):

Mostly on ERJs no?

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: FlyingSicilian
Posted 2012-06-22 09:04:26 and read 3983 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 58):
Mostly on ERJs no?

To Mexico, yes, nearly everythinig else is mainline. You don't really fly ERJs IAH-GRG and IAH-CCS and what not...
IAH- serves the most Mexican destinations non-stop

Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
It is very out of the way for SoCal unless you are going ot the southeast, which is not very many routes. How many high paying (e.g. profitable) customers go from LAX-BHM? On the other hand, routes to the midwest are better served by DEN, and other routes to the east coast, you have ORD. As a person that flies LAX-midwest/east coast at least monthly, I absolutely hate when UA tries to route me through IAH.

Which is what I said and what you quoted. I said from SoCal to the southeast. Thanks for reviewing my point though.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
The city's wealthiest customers are closer to Hobby, not IAH, and the city's large corporations are far away from everything

This quote is beyond laughable. Champions, Kingwood, the Woodlands all much closer to IAH (the list goes on), and the non-downtown corporate traffic is a wash re: distances.

When the oil business travellers are flying Houston- Rio, London, Moscow, Lagos etc they will drive the extra 5 miles to IAH.

Houston does not have poor O/D traffic based on cost; your 4 year old numbers do not look at current fares and costs.
IAH travellers are paying the highest (in most areas) and close toe the highest fares of any market in the US.
That makes them profitable.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-06-22 09:25:09 and read 3939 times.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 53):
The city of Houston ranks #14 in the top O/D markets, which is smaller than all of the other cities that have UA hubs, including DEN. Houston, for a city of its size, has very poor O&D traffic.

Doing some calculations using FAA info and the airports websites, an important measure to look at is Passenger Revenue Miles from an airport. I tried to used the latest data available, in which case it is 2010 for DEN (they don't have an official O&D % for 2011 that I can find) and 2011 for IAH. The comparison is only a year off, yet it can still give a good picture.

Starting with the calculations from the airports sites one can find O&D numbers. Then using the FAA info, the RPMs are available by airport and airline, so I looked up both DEN and IAD for both UA and CO for the respective years and summed them up.

So the data that I found listed
DEN's O&D numbers for 2010 are 53%, for both domestic and international.
IAH's O&D numbers for 2011 are 49%, for both domestic and international.

Then I summed the RPMs, and these numbers are for departures only. I'm assuming arrivals are basically the same, so doubling these numbers will give the total.
For DEN the number (in 000s) is 8,133,141 in 2010
For IAH the number (in 000s) is IAH 16,790,301 for 2011.
The RPMs for both airports are for both domestic and international.

Last, if we apply the O&D for each airport (to get the O&D RPMs) we get
DEN with 4,310,564 (in 000s) in 2010
IAH with 8,227,247 (in 000s) in 2011

and there's probably not that much variance between these different years.

In this important metric, we can see that IAH is nearly double that of DEN for the combined UA/CO. And for all of the other metrics, well.... DEN may have some over IAH in the new UA, but certainly this is probably as important as they get. And I think that I did this correctly.

 

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-22 09:48:34 and read 3894 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 57):
It's OK at best. It's too out of the way for connections to Europe (although UA does have a decent network for that at IAH), limited for connections to Asia, and is not fully optimized to deep South America.
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 57):
I'd say DFW beats out IAH without even trying very hard.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 58):
IAH has almost twice as many seats and departures as DFW to Latin America.

In terms of international revenue, IAH is #8 in the USA. I can't post DB1B legally, so this is MIDT data for FY2011.

Revenue is O&D outbound only
#1 JFK $7 Bln
#2 LAX $5
#3 SFO $3
#4 EWR $3
#5 MIA $3
#6 IAD $2
#7 ORD $2
#8 IAH $2

Is that really so bad? They are ahead of BOS, ATL, HNL, MCO, DFW, SEA, etc. If anything, I'm surprised SFO is so high. IAH is 2.5x more than DFW.

To Central and South America (Mexico is North America), they are #4 behind MIA, JFK, and LAX. They are within 10% of LAX.

To Mexico, IAH is only #3 behind only LAX and ORD. They are close to ORD.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: drerx7
Posted 2012-06-22 10:45:24 and read 3828 times.

Thanks enilria, point2point, and FlyingSicilian for the in depth analysis that hopefully will put to bed these measly accusations that IAH is not a very viable or lucrative hub...and that it has more girth than DEN. A comparison that   me every time. The fact that UA is swapping 757s for 739s/8s at DEN to IAH is evidence to me of them trying to maximize what profits there are at DEN in that 3 way battleground. I like DEN alot, the town and the airport, so its not an assault on it...it is not/nor will it be larger or more lucrative than IAH for UA. When/if F9 folds then maybe we can revisit the numbers   

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-22 10:54:50 and read 3815 times.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 63):

Thanks enilria, point2point, and FlyingSicilian

You are welcome.

My original point was that UA is adding (a little) in DEN to get a $22million/yr rent break and cutting (a little) in IAH to show displeasure at the city of the HOU CBP. So, they are expanding the less profitable hub and shrinking the most profitable hub for political reasons. That's not good for shareholders.

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-06-22 11:27:44 and read 3766 times.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 63):
Thanks enilria, point2point, and FlyingSicilian

Yw

Quoting enilria (Reply 64):
My original point was that UA is adding (a little) in DEN to get a $22million/yr rent break and cutting (a little) in IAH to show displeasure at the city of the HOU CBP. So, they are expanding the less profitable hub and shrinking the most profitable hub for political reasons. That's not good for shareholders.

Okay, I'd just like to point out though that I don't think that $22M now in UA's pocket is something shareholders are going to be scoffing at.......

Now, who knows what's in the heads of UA management of late, but it seems that they're doing there best to shore up what was once their most profitable hub for a good while..... and maybe can be again. And at present, UA has 8 domestic hubs, so management has got to spread out the love here..... and currently it seems that DEN is getting it, after seeming to be ignored for a good long while here. And like any parents (UA) and their children (the hubs) - parents aren't 100% perfect.

UA has probably crunched its numbers, and knows exactly what they can add at DEN to best have a chance at maximizing returns. Likewise, IAH has been showered with gifts immediately post merger with lots of additions and bigger planes, so UA has shown them love as well. Now, with this some sort of tiff-taff that has arisen, UA feels that this is the opportunity to get done some dirty work that maybe needed to be done with IAH for a while.... and the HOU FIS situation is probably just a cover for that. I don't think that anyone knows IAH and Houston better than Smisek, and think of him as you want, and he still may mess things up, but still he's the guy that I would want to handle any situation that deals with IAH.

Sometime very soon, I think that UA and IAH will be back on speaking terms, and all will continue as was before. And I don't think that the dozen or so additions at DEN, along with NRT, is really going to make that big of a difference on UA's income statement.... with already $22M in their pockets.



 

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-06-22 12:08:28 and read 3731 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 65):
I'd just like to point out though that I don't think that $22M now in UA's pocket is something shareholders are going to be scoffing at.......

It depends on how much DEN-NRT loses. DEN was offering $5 million for years and got no takers. UA clearly thought it was a loser. It probably will cost $150 million per year to fly DEN-NRT and they can't cut it unless they add a lot of other stuff (the deal is ASM based---because airports care *so much* about ASMs, LOL). So if the thing loses 15% (which it could) they are no better off. Actually, worst case is that it loses 11 or 12 cents on the dollar and then its awful but not quite worth cutting and dropping the deal.

Quoting point2point (Reply 65):
UA has probably crunched its numbers, and knows exactly what they can add at DEN to best have a chance at maximizing returns.

Exactly, which is why they never added DEN-NRT.

Quoting point2point (Reply 65):
IAH has been showered with gifts immediately post merger with lots of additions and bigger planes

Without being offered millions because the routes made cents/sense.

Quoting point2point (Reply 65):
and the HOU FIS situation is probably just a cover for that

IAH-AKL was the one that never made sense. I think they were cover for each other. They didn't want to fly AKL and they wanted to show IAH they were pissed.

Quoting point2point (Reply 65):
Sometime very soon, I think that UA and IAH will be back on speaking terms

Not *very* soon, but as soon as UA wants something they will be.  

Topic: RE: OAG Changes 6/22/2012:AA/AS/DL/FL/UA
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-06-22 15:44:38 and read 3609 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 66):
Not *very* soon, but as soon as UA wants something they will be.

LOL..... the words of wisdom from one of my favorite friends and top-notched skeptics in the world-wide web of airlines....

Quoting enilria (Reply 66):
It probably will cost $150 million per year to fly DEN-NRT

You think it would really be that high? I would think that the 787 here would command some sort of price-premium as a novelty for a while at the beginning. After that, it will be a matter of getting those butts into the seats. At least this $22M is what DEN is willing to pay for this DEN-NRT route, and it may be a record high paid for a route, eh?

Quoting enilria (Reply 66):
IAH-AKL was the one that never made sense.

And more with the words of wisdom......

 


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