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Topic: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: dtwpilot225
Posted 2012-07-21 07:30:17 and read 8511 times.

Spirit is not one of my favorite airlines becuase I am still a person that believes in the legacy of airlines like Pan Am. But you have to be real and today is much different. Watching Spirit grow it is becoming apparent that they have found their nich and it is going to be hard for any competitor to stop them. They have a very simple strategy and it works becuase that is what the public wants right now. Each time they open up a new city, they can add the following routes right away FLL, DFW, LAS and ORD. FLL takes you to all the vacation hotspots in the caribbean. and DFW and LAS can take you everywhere West.
Their planes have 178 seats but they only fly enough routes to make each flight profitable.
Here is a list of US cities that starting in 2013 I expect them to serve to DFW and FLL
MEM, STL, CVG, SLC, SEA, GRR, PIT, RDU, MCI

I can't believe that they still have Pilot base in DTW and ACY and not DFW but it probably has a lot to do with where their crews live and as the airline continues to grow DFW will probably come.

They haven't even tapped the South American market and when they get the NEO's all these cities will have low cost acess to the Americas

I am a legacy guy, I want Delta, America, United, and USAIR to do good but its hard not to notice what Spirit is doing.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: FlyingFan18
Posted 2012-07-21 08:22:07 and read 8399 times.

What works for one airline may not work for all airlines. Spirit does have a good thing going for them but so do other airlines like B6 and WN. I think it depends on the airline but, don’t take my word for it.
- FlyingFan18

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-07-21 08:25:33 and read 8393 times.

Well in many ways they have the wind at their backs.

Demographically they have a huge and growing ripe market in front of them, that seemingly the legacies and even other LCCs have ignored.

So if the ULCC experience in Europe and Asia are any indication there should be a lots of opportunities in America for this model as well.

Anyhow, kudos to them for being brave enough to push the envelope, and earn good profits doing it.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: YNGguins
Posted 2012-07-21 09:51:34 and read 8163 times.

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Thread starter):
Their planes have 178 seats but they only fly enough routes to make each flight profitable.
Here is a list of US cities that starting in 2013 I expect them to serve to DFW and FLL
MEM, STL, CVG, SLC, SEA, GRR, PIT, RDU, MCI

You do realize they are already service LBE, one county east of PIT? They will not be serving PIT next year as they are expanding rapidly in Latrobe.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2012-07-21 10:03:10 and read 8139 times.

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 3):
Quoting dtwpilot225 (Thread starter):Their planes have 178 seats but they only fly enough routes to make each flight profitable.
Here is a list of US cities that starting in 2013 I expect them to serve to DFW and FLL
MEM, STL, CVG, SLC, SEA, GRR, PIT, RDU, MCI
You do realize they are already service LBE, one county east of PIT? They will not be serving PIT next year as they are expanding rapidly in Latrobe.

I would imagine there will be more ACY's and LBE's in the future, similar to how FL and F9 have gone with CAK vs. CLE. It's always important to have a core of major destinations as focus cities--DTW, DFW, ORD, FLL--but they may find more/better opportunity taking on underserved and/or unique markets rather than being the umpteenth carrier flying ORD or DFW to xxx.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: CIDFlyer
Posted 2012-07-21 10:57:43 and read 7955 times.

I hope they can tap into some G4 markets, like F9 is doing now, smaller to mid sized cities that WN ignores to connect to larger destinations.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-07-21 11:07:51 and read 7916 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 5):

I hope they can tap into some G4 markets, like F9 is doing now, smaller to mid sized cities that WN ignores to connect to larger destinations.

It will be interesting to see if they give that a try. They're doing it in LBE, but lets be honest... that's PIT. I'm interested to see what the next moves are at IAG, PBG and CRW of course.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-07-21 11:14:00 and read 7909 times.

NK does seem that have developed this uncanny ability to shift with the wind as it needs to, and found this to be its way to prosperity. I think that it's really the only U.S. carrier that really doesn't rely on customer loyalty, although with the fares that it has, NK seems to fill its seats very quickly. And it somehow fills its seats with enough yield so that at the end of each quarter, there is good amount of positive $$$$$.

If it works, why fix it, eh?



 

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2012-07-21 11:34:47 and read 7835 times.

In a country full of idiots, I suppose the most idiotic airline's business plan may be considered to be a good one. I think that any business plan, however, that is insulting to its customers cannot be considered to be "perfect."

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-07-21 13:31:56 and read 7626 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):

  

I think NK is pushing things to the limit. They are cheap and very affordable. However, they create a very unpleasant traveling experience. They have the smallest seat pitch and an extremely poor customer service record.

Companies that survive long term usually have one item in common which is creating a great customer experience. NK provides a poor customer experience and I think this will limit their ability to grow in the longer term. There will always be a segment of the population that wants the cheapest option out there regardless of how poor the experience is, but this tends to be a small minority of the total population.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: cedarjet
Posted 2012-07-21 14:00:30 and read 7494 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 9):
smallest seat pitch

Never really understood this. I am 6' tall and never find airlines too cramped. Not if I'm paying a low price and the flight is less than 7 hours. Who cares? There's always a comfortable position to be found. When I read reports of people being uncomfortable, or worse, in pain even after the ride is over, are they making it up? How is this possible?

Quoting EricR (Reply 9):
extremely poor customer service record

OK this I get - and I don't know why airlines like Spirit and Ryanair treat people so badly. It's one thing to educate people - no you're not getting on this plane that you turned up for after check-in closed, and no if you paid $52 for your ticket you're not getting a four star hotel if it's late or cancelled. But they picked all the low hanging fruit and now it's about entrapment - €50 for a boarding pass, €135 for a checked bag, that's not fair. Some families might not know the rules and they aren't well travelled and turn up excited to take their first holiday and it's €200 just for boarding passes, that's their holiday fund blown. Caveat emptor and all that, sure, but it's still mean and unnecessary. I personally won't fly Ryanair cos I don't want to have to worry about being tricked.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2012-07-21 14:01:02 and read 7493 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 9):
They have the smallest seat pitch and an extremely poor customer service record.

Tortuously tight seats, fees on everything, utterly classless advertising, poor customer service, and honestly, 4 "big seats" to upgrade to? Just 4?! If that's not insulting I don't know what is. If Spirit were a person, the cops would be showing up at its trailer on domestic calls pretty regularly.

But if they can consistently make money, their business plan is sound, regardless of my opinion of it.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2012-07-21 14:02:54 and read 7470 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 10):
When I read reports of people being uncomfortable, or worse, in pain even after the ride is over, are they making it up? How is this possible?

You must be one blessed human being to not be in pain after hours in a rigid, cramped coach seat. Have you flown Spirit? It's 28'' with zero recline. I'm 6'0'' too and that hurts.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-07-21 14:11:57 and read 7411 times.

For insight as to how Spirit thinks, check out recent post regarding an interview with their CEO.

Interview: Spirit Airlines CEO - Contrarian's View (by LAXintl May 7 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=

As far as comments about them being classless, as the CEO points out, the Dollar Store does not care about Nordstrom, as each has their own market. Consumers at the end have ultimate choice, and can vote with their pocket books.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-07-21 14:15:56 and read 7388 times.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 10):

Regarding pitch, I am 5 foot 10 and 180 pounds and I feel cramped on traditional airline seats. There is barely enough room to access the bag stowed under the seat in front of you on most airlines. On NK, it is darn near impossible to get anything out the bag in front of you. A few extra inches in very tight surroundings means a lot.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: flaps30
Posted 2012-07-21 16:29:10 and read 6732 times.

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Thread starter):
They haven't even tapped the South American market

At last check, they currently serve 5 destinations in South America. 4 cities in Columbia and 1 in Peru.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2012-07-21 16:43:19 and read 6646 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 11):
, and honestly, 4 "big seats" to upgrade to? Just 4?!

On some flights, NK has up to 10 big front seats. Atleast I know on ACY-BOS and the other ones that I went on last year and prior, NK offers or offered that. But, from their site, I see some with only 4.

Is 4 to be the new standard? if 4 is more the norm, then maybe NK is phasing the big front seat out or reducing that type anyways.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 4):
I would imagine there will be more ACY's and LBE's in the future, similar to how FL and F9 have gone with CAK vs. CLE.

NK decided to go into PHL though, while still at ACY. Maybe NK figured that ACY-DFW would be too long and thin of a route, but PHL would better be able to get the support of the Dallas pax into Philly. NK did decide to go with LBE-DFW which is also long and using an alternate airport for Pittsburgh. I'm not sure about LBE but I think it offers free parking which might mean some will use NK more for the airport convenience than the carrier. With ACY, the airport convenience (although no free parking) is a part of the reason people fly NK at ACY.

Perhaps part of the DFW strategy is that NK will use DFW as a focus city to serve east/west bound traffic flow and will price their connection itineries via DFW competitively and fill a void that AirTran did via ATL/MKE. So that NK will come up as the lowest/cheapest option (for example to go from BWI to PDX) on the search engines.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: AWACSooner
Posted 2012-07-21 16:53:42 and read 6581 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
In a country full of idiots, I suppose the most idiotic airline's business plan may be considered to be a good one. I think that any business plan, however, that is insulting to its customers cannot be considered to be "perfect."

Exactly...if by screwing with your pax by charging them outrageous fees and then pulling out of random markets after only a few months, then yah, they're the "perfect" business model.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2012-07-21 17:21:01 and read 6431 times.

What's the fuss if they get you from A to B safely and on time? You get what you pay for....

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 15):
They haven't even tapped the South American market

At last check, they currently serve 5 destinations in South America. 4 cities in Columbia and 1 in Peru.

He meant from DFW

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 17):
Exactly...if by screwing with your pax by charging them outrageous fees and then pulling out of random markets after only a few months, then yah, they're the "perfect" business model.

No....consistent and ever growing profits make it the "perfect" business model..

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2012-07-21 18:53:53 and read 6002 times.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 16):
On some flights, NK has up to 10 big front seats.

It must not be many. Once I looked at flying Spirit, but only if I could buy a "big front seat." They didn't even offer that outright, you have to buy coach and upgrade to them, and with only 4 options the chances of actually being able to score that upgrade is so low that it's absolutely not worth it at all.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2012-07-21 20:12:17 and read 5652 times.

It may be great for some folks, but I wouldn't consider flying them. With everything else I have to worry about, I do not want to worry whether the airline I choose is going to hit with me with another fee that I wasn't expecting. Maybe Spirit isn't so bad, but its reputation arrives well before its planes do - and frankly, with that reputation am not interested in even investigating whether the airline is offering a steal - or perpetrating a scam.

That ridiculous (and short lived) ad campaign it had awhile back suggesting that the government was forcing airlines to hide fees by requiring airlines to include taxes in the fare quote is just one example of Spirit's behavior that really turned me off.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: ridgid727
Posted 2012-07-21 20:36:43 and read 5511 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 9):
However, they create a very unpleasant traveling experience. They have the smallest seat pitch and an extremely poor customer service record.

If comparing it to say DL, UA, AA etc, but compare their offerings to a Greyhound Bus, and the experience is probably better, and that is their market. As to Carribean, their customer would more than likely be the guy who would vacation in Laughlin Bullhead City this year, and next year the Carribean via NK.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-07-21 21:45:17 and read 5285 times.

Cheap and cheerful travel certainly resonates with people during harder financial times. NK have tapped into that vein and are doing well currently from it.

When things are better, people often expect more for their $$. that's the test for them.

Their route network and offering seem to be coming together well though.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: eastalt
Posted 2012-07-21 23:21:43 and read 5017 times.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
W
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
W
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
With everything else I have to worry about, I do not want to worry whether the airline I choose is going to hit with me with another fee that I wasn't expecting. Maybe Spirit isn't so bad, but its reputation arrives well before its planes do - and frankly, with that reputation am not interested in even investigating whether the airline is offering a steal - or perpetrating a scam.

Could you please explain how its possible this day in time, you do not know all the fees? If you read the web-site, the rules of travel are posted. Further, there is no scam, If so the DOT would put a stop to it. I find it interesting that the flying public trivialize thier travel plans then, blame the airline(s) for thier lack knowlege which is accessable online as required by law. I was one of those people. I flew with the same arrogance until a customer service agent showed it to me on the document I shoved in his face. I learned from that experince and I can assure you there is nothing hidden about fees and there is no scam you can claim once you click the purchase button.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: WN787
Posted 2012-07-22 03:28:39 and read 4520 times.

If Spirit has the "Perfect" business plan, they would be #1 on all fronts and win every $$ or pound and whatever else the world had to offer. UMMMM NO one is perfect!!!

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: beechtobus
Posted 2012-07-22 04:11:48 and read 4548 times.

Quoting eastalt (Reply 23):
Could you please explain how its possible this day in time, you do not know all the fees? If you read the web-site, the rules of travel are posted. Further, there is no scam, If so the DOT would put a stop to it. I find it interesting that the flying public trivialize thier travel plans then, blame the airline(s) for thier lack knowlege which is accessable online as required by law. I was one of those people. I flew with the same arrogance until a customer service agent showed it to me on the document I shoved in his face. I learned from that experince and I can assure you there is nothing hidden about fees and there is no scam you can claim once you click the purchase button.

     

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 17):
Exactly...if by screwing with your pax by charging them outrageous fees and then pulling out of random markets after only a few months, then yah, they're the "perfect" business model.

I'm very curious AWACs, can you even name one city pair or market that Spirit has started in the past, hell, I'll give you 2 years, that they have subsequently pulled out of besides ORD-LAX (which has been off and on for 12 years)? I'm not talking about frequency reductions or reducing a year round city pair to seasonal (as this is clearly not pulling out), I'm talking about one of these markets that you keep mentioning that they start and "pull out of after only a few months"(Like I said, I'll even give you markets they started in the past 2 years and have since pulled out of).

[Edited 2012-07-22 04:13:31]

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Mark2fly1034
Posted 2012-07-22 05:48:17 and read 4272 times.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 17):
Exactly...if by screwing with your pax by charging them outrageous fees and then pulling out of random markets after only a few months, then yah, they're the "perfect" business model.
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 17):
Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
In a country full of idiots, I suppose the most idiotic airline's business plan may be considered to be a good one. I think that any business plan, however, that is insulting to its customers cannot be considered to be "perfect."

Exactly...if by screwing with your pax by charging them outrageous fees and then pulling out of random markets after only a few months, then yah, they're the "perfect" business model.

Well if you look at it overall base ticket price than all the extra charges it still comes out cheaper overall if you do it right.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2012-07-22 07:26:12 and read 4039 times.

Unfortunately NK may have a good business plan that other carriers will copy over the next few years. Get ready to be nickled and dimed for everything

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: JHCRJ700
Posted 2012-07-22 07:28:02 and read 4026 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
In a country full of idiots, I suppose the most idiotic airline's business plan may be considered to be a good one. I think that any business plan, however, that is insulting to its customers cannot be considered to be "perfect."

While I would have worded it a little differently I agree 100% with what you said. On a personal note I doubt I will ever fly Spirit. I'd rather pay more and have some semblence of comfort. I also can't stand all the nickel and diming garbage. I like to just pay my single fare all at once and be done with it. That being said; I read that they are starting routes in BWI soon and am looking forward to some more diversity in the skies around here. It will be interesting to see how well they do. I'd also love to see some B6 expansion outside of the single route to KBOS, but that is an entirely different topic.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: EXMEMWIDGET
Posted 2012-07-22 07:35:27 and read 3993 times.

I wouldn't mind seeing Spirit move into the DFW-MEM market. I fly this market frequently and the fares have been quite high for awhile. The fares for nonstop round trip flights on AA and DL have been running from $500 to $1100 for economy class as far out as one month out from the departure date. Sometimes they are a little cheaper if you are willing to have 1 or 2 stops along the way.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: nkops
Posted 2012-07-22 10:27:14 and read 3827 times.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 16):
On some flights, NK has up to 10 big front seats

All the 319's have 10 big front seats... the A321's and 320's have 4.... most likely the 319's will stay with 10 as they cannot go above 150 seats without adding another f/a and another overwing exit.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: flaps30
Posted 2012-07-22 10:37:35 and read 3790 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 27):
Get ready to be nickled and dimed for everything

What do you mean get ready! We are already being nickeled and dimed to death by almost every airline for every thing possible. I am just waiting for the pay toilet and pay as you go oxygen which probably is not far from happening!!

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2012-07-22 12:29:43 and read 3664 times.

The perfect business plan...is there such a thing? NK is doing well now but I'm not sure perfect would be the word to describe it.

I've heard on good authority from several sources that their customer retention rate is very low, people fly them once and most don't return...but then again customer retention may be irrelevant for NK in a lot of their markets as a lot of their traffic is probably new, stimulated traffic. But this does seem to present a problem for them a lot of times, especially when they go directly up against other LCC competition, namely in FLL where they've stagnated as B6 has expanded their presence. They also seem to have a lot of difficulty sustaining frequencies beyond 1-2 daily flights outside trunk routes like ORD-LAS.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2012-07-22 14:49:47 and read 3567 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 5):
I hope they can tap into some G4 markets, like F9 is doing now, smaller to mid sized cities that WN ignores to connect to larger destinations.

Same here!

I wasn't a fan of the a la carte pricing at first, but now it's making more sense to me. You only pay for what you want/use. If all you want is a seat on a plane from A to B, there's currently nothing out there that's cheaper. If you want to check bags, have a snack/drink inflight, have an assigned seat prior to boarding, etc, it's your option to pay extra. We took a flight on G4 a couple years ago, paid for assigned seats and snacks enroute, and thoroughly enjoyed the flight.

[Edited 2012-07-22 14:50:16]

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-07-22 15:10:44 and read 3535 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 32):
I've heard on good authority from several sources that their customer retention rate is very low, people fly them once and most don't return..

Not according to NK itself. Earlier this year they said they had over 1-million active $9 Club members, plus high takeup of their Master Card tie-in.

They did mention a specific number of average trips these clients took annually, but I cant recall the number off the top of my head. So its definitely fly once, and fly again for a good number of clients.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 33):
I wasn't a fan of the a la carte pricing at first, but now it's making more sense to me. You only pay for what you want/use.

   Part of their model is to break away that inclusive one price all charge which people blindly pay for, but don't utilize all the included amenities.

I had someone in the hotel business basically draw a parallel with if hotels started charging for the use of the ice maker, the pool, towels, the coffee machine in the room etc. Today tons of stuff is simply supplied as part of the overhead, but in reality they cost every single customer extra money whether they are utilized or not.

So personally, I do not view fees as punitive or "nickle-n-dime". Quite the contrary, they allow the passengers to save those nickle and dimes on what they don’t wish to utilize.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2012-07-22 15:17:01 and read 3499 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
So personally, I do not view fees as punitive or "nickle-n-dime". Quite the contrary, they allow the passengers to save those nickle and dimes on what they don’t wish to utilize.

Nor do I..... Now.... And as long as the airfare by itself is really low.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 32):
I've heard on good authority from several sources that their customer retention rate is very low, people fly them once and most don't return...but then again customer retention may be irrelevant for NK in a lot of their markets as a lot of their traffic is probably new, stimulated traffic. But this does seem to present a problem for them a lot of times, especially when they go directly up against other LCC competition, namely in FLL where they've stagnated as B6 has expanded their presence. They also seem to have a lot of difficulty sustaining frequencies beyond 1-2 daily flights outside trunk routes like ORD-LAS.

I don't think this is necessarily a problem for NK, as I would imagine a great deal of their business is either tourists or those who travel infrequently to begin with, and might otherwise take a bus or other form of transport to another city, but can suddenly afford to fly thanks to the likes of NK.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: September11
Posted 2012-07-22 15:25:36 and read 3493 times.

Does Spirit have the perfect business plan?

To me, yes and no. I'm starting to note that Spirit excels in nickeling-and-diming business.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: OB1504
Posted 2012-07-22 17:26:03 and read 3368 times.

Quoting FlyingFan18 (Reply 1):
What works for one airline may not work for all airlines. Spirit does have a good thing going for them but so do other airlines like B6 and WN. I think it depends on the airline but, don’t take my word for it.

  

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 4):
I would imagine there will be more ACY's and LBE's in the future, similar to how FL and F9 have gone with CAK vs. CLE. It's always important to have a core of major destinations as focus cities--DTW, DFW, ORD, FLL--but they may find more/better opportunity taking on underserved and/or unique markets rather than being the umpteenth carrier flying ORD or DFW to xxx.

With the addition of stations such as CRW (which I understand to be performing poorly), IAG, and PBG, it's clear that NK is taking a page from G4's playbook. The opposite is true, too, as G4 has announced plans to begin charging for carry-on baggage.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
In a country full of idiots, I suppose the most idiotic airline's business plan may be considered to be a good one. I think that any business plan, however, that is insulting to its customers cannot be considered to be "perfect."

How is the business plan insulting to its customers? I find it insulting to have to pay for services I don't want and won't use.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 11):
Tortuously tight seats, fees on everything, utterly classless advertising, poor customer service, and honestly, 4 "big seats" to upgrade to? Just 4?! If that's not insulting I don't know what is. If Spirit were a person, the cops would be showing up at its trailer on domestic calls pretty regularly.

They went down to 4 seats because the upgrades aren't selling very well. Let's face it, if you're flying Spirit, comfort is not your priority.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
You must be one blessed human being to not be in pain after hours in a rigid, cramped coach seat. Have you flown Spirit? It's 28'' with zero recline. I'm 6'0'' too and that hurts.

"Pre-reclined" and "zero recline" are two different things. The seats on the Airbus A320s are permanently in a state of recline, which actually makes them more comfortable than the older seats on the A319s and A321s when upright. Furthermore, the new slimline seats mean that the 28" seat pitch is virtually unnoticeable when compared to flying on an A319 or A321 with 31". I say this as someone who has flown in the last row, middle seat of one of their A320s on LGA-FLL, and would happily do so again if it cost me another $39.60 roundtrip.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 18):

No....consistent and ever growing profits make it the "perfect" business model..

   That being said, Spirit only caters to a select clientele and virtually ignores the premium pax, so "perfect" is subjective.

Quoting eastalt (Reply 23):
Could you please explain how its possible this day in time, you do not know all the fees? If you read the web-site, the rules of travel are posted. Further, there is no scam, If so the DOT would put a stop to it. I find it interesting that the flying public trivialize thier travel plans then, blame the airline(s) for thier lack knowlege which is accessable online as required by law. I was one of those people. I flew with the same arrogance until a customer service agent showed it to me on the document I shoved in his face. I learned from that experince and I can assure you there is nothing hidden about fees and there is no scam you can claim once you click the purchase button.

   I would always have customers demanding to know where on the website it said that Spirit charges for carry-ons, seat assignments, boarding passes, etcetera. One tap on the customer's smartphone later, and they were sheepishly taking out their credit cards. With the new protections for airline travelers implemented by the DOT, there's no excuse for not being an informed traveler.

It's also contradictory to the argument that Spirit is notorious for poor customer service. So either they're infamous as the airline that charges for everything, and therefore everyone should know this already, or they're no different than any of the legacies.

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 26):
Well if you look at it overall base ticket price than all the extra charges it still comes out cheaper overall if you do it right.

   I wouldn't fly Spirit if another airline had a total price within $5 or $10, but because I'm a very spartan traveler who takes full advantage of their sales, that hasn't been the case yet.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 27):
Unfortunately NK may have a good business plan that other carriers will copy over the next few years. Get ready to be nickled and dimed for everything

   Spirit was the first American airline to introduce checked bag fees, and now they're a reality on just about every other airline.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 32):
I've heard on good authority from several sources that their customer retention rate is very low, people fly them once and most don't return...but then again customer retention may be irrelevant for NK in a lot of their markets as a lot of their traffic is probably new, stimulated traffic. But this does seem to present a problem for them a lot of times, especially when they go directly up against other LCC competition, namely in FLL where they've stagnated as B6 has expanded their presence. They also seem to have a lot of difficulty sustaining frequencies beyond 1-2 daily flights outside trunk routes like ORD-LAS.

They don't need to sustain frequency. If the fare is low enough, passengers will work around the airline's schedule. Ultimately, the customers that Spirit targets are not as loyal to service as they are to price.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-07-22 19:03:50 and read 3237 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
With the addition of stations such as CRW (which I understand to be performing poorly)

FLL performed poorly and that route is gone. MYR is an entirely different story; but nobody on here ever brings that up. Imagine that.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
They went down to 4 seats because the upgrades aren't selling very well. Let's face it, if you're flying Spirit, comfort is not your priority.

Everytime I've flown them to MYR, it's been sold out. When we had FLL It seemed to typically go un-purchased. Go figure?

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
"Pre-reclined" and "zero recline" are two different things. The seats on the Airbus A320s are permanently in a state of recline, which actually makes them more comfortable than the older seats on the A319s and A321s when upright. Furthermore, the new slimline seats mean that the 28" seat pitch is virtually unnoticeable when compared to flying on an A319 or A321 with 31". I say this as someone who has flown in the last row, middle seat of one of their A320s on LGA-FLL, and would happily do so again if it cost me another $39.60 roundtrip.

The seat pitch whiners always kill me. I'd fly Spirit over a CRJ (my only other option) any day.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 34):
So personally, I do not view fees as punitive or "nickle-n-dime". Quite the contrary, they allow the passengers to save those nickle and dimes on what they don’t wish to utilize.

That's exactly how it's setup. More power to NK and to those that can actually take of advantage of the low fares.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: CIDFlyer
Posted 2012-07-22 19:44:29 and read 3179 times.

Is FL gone from CRW yet? I wonder if NK would have better success with a flight from CRW-MCO? Or perhaps try CRW-DFW down the line?

South Florida seems to only do good for the Northeast....G4 had limited success with their FLL "hub", they pulled alot of the midwest destinations they originally started with (PIA, RFD, etc)

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Squid
Posted 2012-07-22 20:10:06 and read 3148 times.

I remember reading over an airline management text book from the late 80's about 5 or 6 years ago. The introduction was a story about a passenger that wanted to fly domestically in the U.S. for the first part of his business trip and then to an international destination for the second part. The story took place 10 years in the future. Basically, the story explained how the airlines were organized, and except for routing between MAJOR city pairs such as Dallas to Los Angeles, and Seattle to Chicago, the majority of the domestic airline network serving medium to larger cities was served by airlines exactly like Spirit and the small cities were served by feeder airlines. Smaller jets were the norn thus greatly reducing the need for connections, and, secondary airports also were utilized much more especially if the passenger was not making a connection therefore allowing them to avoid congested airports and save time such as Mid-Continent in St. Louis and Rockford and Gary in Chicago. There were no domestic service agreement, such as Comair flying for Delta, and Great Lakes flying for United. Instead they were all independent airlines that operated with interline agreements, but the passenger only had to book one ticket, and the routing was all done in a single transaction to which they paid a separate independant company that would then disperse the money to the airlines operating the flights. The only allances were international ones. Airlines such as American and United basically flew larger narrow body and wide body jets internationally, and between their hubs and major city pairs and offered full service ala' carte, and the smaller domestic airlines and feeder airlines were one class, and also utilized an ala' carte pricing scheme.

While I cannot see this happening, I can see the major airlines offering a class of service even lower than their coach class now with even less seat pitch and seat padding, and it being installed on most of their fleet. That is if Spirit really begins to take away business from the majors. There are many people that really only care about one thing...price. It really doesn't matter to a huge percentage of the U.S. population whether they are "comfortable" or not while en-route. They just want to get there for the least amount of money, with their luggage, in a timely fashion. Just like Southwest began to heavily influence the major airlines in the 90's with the elimination of meals, and a more casual approach to their service, I think Spirit will be an interesting airline to watch as to how much they will influence the majors in the next 10 years.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-07-22 20:14:08 and read 3141 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 39):
Is FL gone from CRW yet?

Yes, last flight was June 2nd.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 39):
I wonder if NK would have better success with a flight from CRW-MCO?

Hands down. Are you familiar with Secretariat? That's how much better of a market MCO is, not just from CRW but from the region entirely. TPA would be a closer second with South Florida as a whole coming in last of the primary Florida areas.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 39):
Or perhaps try CRW-DFW down the line?

I think DFW could be a winner. We have good oil and energy ties with Texas. It's probably something AA would have tried if not for our runway and their lack of appropriate aircraft. At Spirit's fares, the traffic would be there. I think our average fare down there is something on the order of $250 each way.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 39):
South Florida seems to only do good for the Northeast....G4 had limited success with their FLL "hub", they pulled alot of the midwest destinations they originally started with (PIA, RFD, etc)

Good observation. In terms of vacationers, CRW will never behave like a LBE/IAG/PBG. We don't really have snowbirds. (Not to mention we don't always have what people up north would call a true winter) Last winter the average temp was between 40 and 50. That doesn't motivate anyone to relocate South. We are not by any means in the Northeast. People go to MYR ( affectionately known as "THE beach" ), MCO, and TPA.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2012-07-22 21:26:14 and read 3059 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
How is the business plan insulting to its customers? I find it insulting to have to pay for services I don't want and won't use.


Like what, fuel? If you aren't checking a bag on a legacy carrier, you aren't paying. If you aren't upgrading your seat, you aren't paying. If you aren't buying food, you aren't paying (or eating.) What services would you be paying for and not using?

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
Furthermore, the new slimline seats mean that the 28" seat pitch is virtually unnoticeable when compared to flying on an A319 or A321 with 31"

I don't buy that unless you're a child or otherwise small-statured. Their pilots suggest riding in the jumpseat vs. sitting in the back when it's available. That should tell you something.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2012-07-22 21:41:02 and read 3035 times.

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 31):
What do you mean get ready! We are already being nickeled and dimed to death by almost every airline for every thing possible. I am just waiting for the pay toilet and pay as you go oxygen which probably is not far from happening!!

How is charging for the services you use "nickel and diming"? I guess I can see why there is that perception because these services were always included in the higher airfares people were paying in the past. These ancillary charges started at a time when fares were at historical lows and, adjusted for inflation, were exceedingly lower than they ever had been. Airlines were forced into a corner by a traveling public that demanded lower and lower fares. The airlines pretty much turned over every stone that they could in house to save money. The only thing left was the "unbundling" of air fares. You want to check a bag? Fine, you can pay for it. You want a snack? Fine, you can pay for it. You want to change your date? Fine you can pay for that too. You did, after all, tie up that real estate that the airline may otherwise have been able to sell to someone else while you sat on it. Why should everybody else pay higher fares so that you can continue using services that are no longer economically feasible to provide if they aren't using the same services?

[Edited 2012-07-22 21:42:07]

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2012-07-22 21:56:05 and read 3011 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
In a country full of idiots, I suppose the most idiotic airline's business plan may be considered to be a good one. I think that any business plan, however, that is insulting to its customers cannot be considered to be "perfect."

   Hit the nail on the head.

Quoting EricR (Reply 9):
I think NK is pushing things to the limit. They are cheap and very affordable. However, they create a very unpleasant traveling experience. They have the smallest seat pitch and an extremely poor customer service record.

I agree.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 10):
and I don't know why airlines like Spirit and Ryanair treat people so badly.

Because they have bad business models.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 11):
Tortuously tight seats, fees on everything, utterly classless advertising, poor customer service, and honestly, 4 "big seats" to upgrade to? Just 4?! If that's not insulting I don't know what is. If Spirit were a person, the cops would be showing up at its trailer on domestic calls pretty regularly.

It is very insulting indeed.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 11):
But if they can consistently make money, their business plan is sound, regardless of my opinion of it.

Like I said earlier, NK definitely has a bad business model.

Quoting EricR (Reply 14):
Regarding pitch, I am 5 foot 10 and 180 pounds and I feel cramped on traditional airline seats.

Same here, I'm 5' 10" too.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 17):

Exactly...if by screwing with your pax by charging them outrageous fees and then pulling out of random markets after only a few months, then yah, they're the "perfect" business model.

  

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 18):
No....consistent and ever growing profits make it the "perfect" business model..

No, they don't.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 18):
What's the fuss if they get you from A to B safely and on time? You get what you pay for....

The fuss is that they have bad service and a bad customer service record.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 27):
Unfortunately NK may have a good business plan that other carriers will copy over the next few years.

Let's hope it won't come to that.

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 31):
I am just waiting for the pay toilet and pay as you go oxygen which probably is not far from happening!!

You must be flying NK then!

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 33):
I wasn't a fan of the a la carte pricing at first, but now it's making more sense to me. You only pay for what you want/use. If all you want is a seat on a plane from A to B, there's currently nothing out there that's cheaper. If you want to check bags, have a snack/drink inflight, have an assigned seat prior to boarding, etc, it's your option to pay extra.

What color is the sky in your world?

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 38):
The seat pitch whiners always kill me.

Why?

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: mandala499
Posted 2012-07-22 22:06:41 and read 2993 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
Spirit only caters to a select clientele and virtually ignores the premium pax, so "perfect" is subjective.

Yeaps, nothing wrong with that on the consumer end...
However...

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 31):
We are already being nickeled and dimed to death by almost every airline for every thing possible.

Well, yeah, even premium classes in non-LCCs are beginning to be nickeled and dimed to death... did Alaska just announced they'll now charge for a second bag in 1st... or something like that?   

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2012-07-22 22:11:23 and read 2985 times.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 44):
Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 33):
I wasn't a fan of the a la carte pricing at first, but now it's making more sense to me. You only pay for what you want/use. If all you want is a seat on a plane from A to B, there's currently nothing out there that's cheaper. If you want to check bags, have a snack/drink inflight, have an assigned seat prior to boarding, etc, it's your option to pay extra.

What color is the sky in your world?

What world do you live in? That's the model airlines have gone to. Pay for the services you use. The poster illustrated that perfectly - what's the question?

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: eastalt
Posted 2012-07-23 02:19:51 and read 2920 times.

To answer the original question, "Does Spirit Have the Perfect Buisness Plan?" The short answer is no. However, they have found the perfect formula for making a profit. No airline has the perfect plan, this is not possible in the airline industry for serveral reasons. Too many factors affect an airlines bottom line such as fuel, and labor. Other factors you have to consider is over zelous governent regulations and finally the flying public who refuse to pay the true cost of an airline ticket. To adapt to this enviorment airlines are forced to change thier buisness plans and compete with lower fares rather than customer service.

With regard to Spirits perceved lack of customer service, I find it no worse than any other airline. Spirit compensation policies are on par with every other airline. Further, customer service in my opinion is in the eye of the beholder. I find that Spirit takes a no-non sense approach with reguard to customer service and things move very fast in thier enviorment.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2012-07-23 02:54:09 and read 2879 times.

Quoting eastalt (Reply 47):
No airline has the perfect plan

Absolutely. Likewise any business. Why? Because everything can be improved, in theory anyway, to better achieve whatever objectives - financial and otherwise - the business sets.

In terms of NK's strategy, it clearly achieves excellent operating profitability - likely its most-important objective - irrespective of its perceived awfulness and its reasonably small size. As a brief comparison and per their 2011 annual reports:

Average one-way fare:

Southwest: $142
Spirit: $126 including ancillaries

Average sector distance:

Southwest: 679
Spirit: 921

Operating result:

Southwest: $693,000,000
Spirit: $144,382,000

Operating result per aircraft (to get rid of the influence of size):

Southwest: $992,837 (698 aircraft at 31st Dec 2011)
Spirit: $4,125,200 (35 aircraft)

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: DarkSnowyNight
Posted 2012-07-24 19:20:31 and read 2527 times.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 46):
That's the model airlines have gone to. Pay for the services you use. The poster illustrated that perfectly - what's the question?

That would be great if it were actually true. But the reason that it's a total lie to classify it this way is that you are still paying for all those services. You're simply being charged again if you need them. You're not going to escape paying for them, as ticket prices have not decreased at all compared to what they were before this craze began.


Having that been said, I do utilize NK for certain purposes (E.G. when I am heading somewhere I already have a set of supplies at and --not or-- am travelling alone). I do make certain to recommend against using them for anything but emergency purposes when people ask for advice (as I'm sure is the case for many of us, this does happen a lot in my circle of friends/family given my employment in commercial aviation) on travel. And lastly, I never fly them unless they are at least 300% below the next fare. Even if all the above conditions are met, it's no guaruntee I'll fly with them.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: beechtobus
Posted 2012-07-24 19:40:15 and read 2508 times.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 49):

Right, just everyone else's fares who includes these items "for free" Has gone way up.

[Edited 2012-07-24 19:41:31]

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-07-24 20:26:31 and read 2458 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 42):
Their pilots suggest riding in the jumpseat vs. sitting in the back when it's available. That should tell you something.

The airbus cockpit is more spacious than any airlines economy seats.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 44):
Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 38):
The seat pitch whiners always kill me.

Why?

Because I'm 6'3 and have yet to die on an aircraft due to the seat pitch. I know what I'm getting when I purchase. I've spent more time on regional jets than any other aircraft and even they aren't horrible to me. Nor are Spirit's seats.. even having flown them in a middle seat. I don't care whether my knees are 5 inches from the seat in front of me or one inch from the seat in front of me, provided I don't have to wedge myself into the seat. It's about 26 inches from my back to my knees when I'm sitting down.. so unless I've got unusually short femurs, or you all have unusually long femurs, I'd think it's a very survivable situation for the majority of the population. It's not first class, but I can pay 53 bucks and hop on a plane with my backpack for a weekend at the beach.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: DarkSnowyNight
Posted 2012-07-24 20:32:56 and read 2446 times.

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 50):

Right, just everyone else's fares who includes these items "for free" Has gone way up.

Southwest and JetBlue are usually the same or less, especially where walk up fares (which no legacy carrier waives any fees for) are concerned. The only reason for ancillary revenue is to create a stream of income the airlines do not pay tax on. There are no savings for you at all, except in cases like NK or FR, but even then, you'll still end up paying more if you buy any of these than you would for an equivalent B6 or WN fare, which includes those items free of charge.

Again, I have no principalled objection to using them, but I wouldn't recommend it, and would only do so if I knew they were taking a loss on my fare.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2012-07-24 23:01:09 and read 2341 times.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 49):
That would be great if it were actually true. But the reason that it's a total lie to classify it this way is that you are still paying for all those services. You're simply being charged again if you need them. You're not going to escape paying for them, as ticket prices have not decreased at all compared to what they were before this craze began.

Actually, over the years (say, the last 20 years or more), fares haven't risen enough to cover the costs of these services. SO, while these services had been included previously, back when fares were quite a bit more than they are today, it is no longer economically feasible to provide them. What cost 300.00 in 1990 should now cost about 500.00+ if adjusted for inflation - it does not. If you want to continue paying $300 for a round trip ticket from one side of the country to the other then you are going to have to pay for the services that were once included for free. Fares have risen over the last year or two but not nearly enough to cover the costs of providing all the services you think should be included for free.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2012-07-24 23:24:41 and read 2322 times.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 46):
What world do you live in? That's the model airlines have gone to. Pay for the services you use. The poster illustrated that perfectly - what's the question?

The question is why someone would come to believe that NK's business model "makes sense." What about charging people for overhead bin space, printing a boarding pass, or even a glass of water makes any sense at all?

Quoting eastalt (Reply 47):
No airline has the perfect plan, this is not possible in the airline industry for serveral reasons. Too many factors affect an airlines bottom line such as fuel, and labor. Other factors you have to consider is over zelous governent regulations and finally the flying public who refuse to pay the true cost of an airline ticket.

  

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 51):
Because I'm 6'3 and have yet to die on an aircraft due to the seat pitch. I know what I'm getting when I purchase. I've spent more time on regional jets than any other aircraft and even they aren't horrible to me. Nor are Spirit's seats..

   You're 6' 3" and you say that NK's seats "aren't horrible?" I'm sorry, I don't quite follow you.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Wingtips56
Posted 2012-07-24 23:42:04 and read 2301 times.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 52):
The only reason for ancillary revenue is to create a stream of income the airlines do not pay tax on.

Not quite right ... the airline is paying income tax on the revenue, but some fees still are not charged the Federal Excise Tax (7.5%) on top of the fee amount, which the airline collects from YOU and remits to the IRS. That is changing though, with some Congressional action, and now the US tax is added to some fees. But as the separately receipted tax, the Government gets that revenue, not the airline.

Originally, some fees and surcharges were posted separately from the base fare components to avoid paying travel agency commissions on the prescribed fare values. Not as relevant now as most commissions have been dropped, but that is part of the logic. But then they used to be able to quote only the base fare net of fees and surcharges in advertising and calls, and gave the appearance of a lower price in comparison websites, but that has changed now too .... which is the case Spirit lost in court to the D.O.T. today.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: AlnessW
Posted 2012-07-25 22:32:29 and read 2072 times.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 55):

Thanks for sharing that info.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: DarkSnowyNight
Posted 2012-07-25 23:53:19 and read 2040 times.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 51):

The airbus cockpit is more spacious than any airlines economy seats.

I'll vouch for that one. Even at my height, I can stand fully up in the spot where the jumpseat is. It's a great workspace. And tolerable seat pitch to boot.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 54):

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 51):
Because I'm 6'3 and have yet to die on an aircraft due to the seat pitch. I know what I'm getting when I purchase. I've spent more time on regional jets than any other aircraft and even they aren't horrible to me. Nor are Spirit's seats..

   You're 6' 3" and you say that NK's seats "aren't horrible?" I'm sorry, I don't quite follow you.

Yeah, I don't either. 28" is 28", and that pitch, unless this guy carries his height in his calves or chest, it's going crunch some serious knee. With those measurements, there's no way to avoid contact with the seatback ahead of him. Which is exactly why I seatguru airline/type combos I haven't flown with before.

But he says he knows what he's getting, so he can have it... I will agree that $54 is a good one way (that's actually not to far off from what it works out to when I travel with them using the Bigger Front Seats; but then, I'm damned serious about that $9 fare!) Also I agree that it's really not that different then what one would find on a PSA, ZW, OO, et al CR200.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 55):

Not quite right ... the airline is paying income tax on the revenue, but some fees still are not charged the Federal Excise Tax (7.5%) on top of the fee amount,

Right, but those fees still aren't reported as a straight profit, which allows them to escape that tax. However...

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 55):
That is changing though, with some Congressional action,

If this is the case, we're headed in the right direction.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 55):
which is the case Spirit lost in court to the D.O.T. today.

Good.




Spirit does not have the perfect business model, to answer that question. But it cannot be denied that what they do is working for them. They make money, and lots of it. I do not think that every airline can realistically serve every market. There are still lots of ASMs needed from the everyone from DL to EK to B6. Personally, I don't really like NK per se, but I see no reason not to use them for what they are.

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2012-07-26 08:37:10 and read 1890 times.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 57):
With those measurements, there's no way to avoid contact with the seatback ahead of him.

If one by luck gets, or purchases extra the choice of an aisle seat assignment, it's possible have the legs be extended towards the aisle with one leg slightly in the aisle. For someone who is 6'3, I assume the other leg will still be in contact with the seatback.

[Edited 2012-07-26 08:38:40]

Topic: RE: Does Spirit Have The Perfect Business Plan?
Username: stlgph
Posted 2012-07-26 09:05:44 and read 1846 times.

I think of Spirit as eating out in a restaurant. You go there - you have a menu of what you want or don't want. Pay for what you want - don't pay for what you want.
Call it nickel and diming - but to me, it makes sense. It allows for extra revenue centers, which is something that a lot of small businesses do wrong - limit their income intake.

So, yes, it's a good business plan.


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