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Topic: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: Blueman87
Posted 2012-08-03 15:03:55 and read 6749 times.

I got an email from Airtran saying there stopping all service from HPN and that they will still serve LGA. so my question is
when Airtran stops serving 8-12-12 who is going to pick up those slots when they leave???

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: flyiguy
Posted 2012-08-03 15:14:47 and read 6708 times.

Quoting Blueman87 (Thread starter):
so my question is
when Airtran stops serving 8-12-12 who is going to pick up those slots when they leave???

I'm guessing B6 would like to have them.

Fly

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2012-08-03 15:18:06 and read 6697 times.

Per the HPN website, the following cities are served on the following airlines. Though HPN will lose a carrier, no cities will be lost:
-ACK (9K)
-ATL (DL and FL; soon to be DL only)
-CLT (US)
-CVG (DL)
-DCA (US)
-DTW (DL)
-FLL (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-IAD (UA)
-LEB (9K)
-MCO (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-MVY (9K)
-ORD (AA, UA)
-PBI (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-PHL (US)
-TPA (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)

Those slots won't stay vacant for long... IIRC, FL fought hard to get HPN slots, and other airlines would likely fight for them. My money would be on B6 gaining more slots, but when it comes to LCCs, I wouldn't rule out NK or F9 (currently, DEN is not served from HPN). For legacies, I could see UA picking up some slots and adding DEN or IAH, or AA adding DFW; HPN lacks good westbound connections.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-08-03 16:01:04 and read 6604 times.

They wont lose serice, but what a huge loss to ATL. Only mainline service to a huge connecting hub. Quite a shame

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-08-03 16:55:41 and read 6479 times.

Luckily per Delta's rule they cannot downgrade the type of aircraft they fly between HPN and ATL since it's over 750 miles...so they can't fly anything smaller than a CRJ-700 but I wonder if they will end any CRJ-900 service they have there.

I'm also sure they won't stop flying HPN-ATL since they have been flying it prior to FL's arrival in HPN.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: alggag
Posted 2012-08-03 17:03:00 and read 6453 times.

I'm a little disappointed and a little surprised that WN chose not to retain HPN. A lot of people had penciled it in as a station that would be converted to WN service.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: DeltAirlines
Posted 2012-08-03 17:22:56 and read 6398 times.

Quoting alggag (Reply 5):
I'm a little disappointed and a little surprised that WN chose not to retain HPN. A lot of people had penciled it in as a station that would be converted to WN service.

I seem to recall that HPN implemented a 120,000 pound limit there in the not too distant past - allowing 717s to get in just fine (and B6's E90s) but pretty much blocking 737s and A320s. I know AA used to drop the 737-800 into HPN though prior to them going all-Eagle, but could this have been a factor?

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 4):
Luckily per Delta's rule they cannot downgrade the type of aircraft they fly between HPN and ATL since it's over 750 miles...so they can't fly anything smaller than a CRJ-700 but I wonder if they will end any CRJ-900 service they have there.

I'm also sure they won't stop flying HPN-ATL since they have been flying it prior to FL's arrival in HPN.

I wouldn't be shocked if Delta brought the 717 into HPN once it comes on property. There's going to be a trickle-down effect with CR7s and CR9s having to go to markets where CR2s are operating, and with 7x CR7/9 on this route already for Delta, it could very easily drop to something around 4-5x daily 717s...4.5 717s in Delta's configuration would equate to the capacity Delta currently has to ATL.

The only tricky thing there is the HPN limit on passengers per hour - much easier to manage that with smaller planes than 717s.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: Blueman87
Posted 2012-08-04 06:36:40 and read 5949 times.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
I seem to recall that HPN implemented a 120,000 pound limit there in the not too distant past - allowing 717s to get in just fine (and B6's E90s) but pretty much blocking 737s and A320s

i swear i saw B6 A320's there is that a new rule they implemented at HPN???

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: DeltAirlines
Posted 2012-08-04 07:45:53 and read 5842 times.

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 7):
i swear i saw B6 A320's there is that a new rule they implemented at HPN???

Looks like you're right - checking the schedule they do have 1 daily A320 to MCO this month. Googling it there is a 120k max weight at HPN unless you've gotten special clearance, which an A320 would be over unless it was very empty, so my guess is that B6 submitted the paperwork and got the thumbs up.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-08-04 08:19:46 and read 5784 times.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be shocked if Delta brought the 717 into HPN once it comes on property. There's going to be a trickle-down effect with CR7s and CR9s having to go to markets where CR2s are operating, and with 7x CR7/9 on this route already for Delta, it could very easily drop to something around 4-5x daily 717s...4.5 717s in Delta's configuration would equate to the capacity Delta currently has to ATL.

The only tricky thing there is the HPN limit on passengers per hour - much easier to manage that with smaller planes than 717s.

What about them sending the DC-9 into HPN until the 717s came in? I mean, this could be an option if they start shuffling around the CR7s and CR9s before the 717s come into full service.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: PennPal
Posted 2012-08-04 09:19:44 and read 5699 times.

They're also dropping service to SRQ in mid August.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: HVNandrew
Posted 2012-08-04 09:24:34 and read 5689 times.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 4):
Luckily per Delta's rule they cannot downgrade the type of aircraft they fly between HPN and ATL since it's over 750 miles...so they can't fly anything smaller than a CRJ-700 but I wonder if they will end any CRJ-900 service they have there.

I'm also sure they won't stop flying HPN-ATL since they have been flying it prior to FL's arrival in HPN.

I could see DL seriously cutting back on this route. Prior to FL coming in, DL only flew HPN-ATL 3x daily on a CR2. You can argue that FL stimulated the market, or that DL decided to play ball, I don't know. Either way, that's a significant increase in capacity since FL came to town about five years ago.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
-CVG (DL)

DL dropped HPN-CVG years ago, and brought it back for one summer I believe two years ago. Regardless, it doesn't operate anymore and it has been a while.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2012-08-04 10:35:22 and read 5600 times.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 11):
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
-CVG (DL)

DL dropped HPN-CVG years ago, and brought it back for one summer I believe two years ago. Regardless, it doesn't operate anymore and it has been a while.

The CVG mention was from the airport website, along with all the other nonstop routes. Regardless of whether there is CVG service or not from HPN, their website badly needs a redesign. In a world dominated by Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer 8/9, it looks like a site built for the days when 80% of computers used Internet Explorer 6.

[Edited 2012-08-04 10:38:22]

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: spinkid
Posted 2012-08-04 10:47:09 and read 5572 times.

I was disappointed to here this. Air Tran kept the fares on the ATL route pretty low and I've often been able to find decent connections to the south and west with them via ATL. I'm sure prices will be sky high once they are gone.

I don't see Frontier stepping in and B6 will likely just add more Florida frequencies.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: JETSTAR
Posted 2012-08-04 11:20:47 and read 5491 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
Per the HPN website, the following cities are served on the following airlines. Though HPN will lose a carrier, no cities will be lost:
-ACK (9K)
-ATL (DL and FL; soon to be DL only)
-CLT (US)
-CVG (DL)
-DCA (US)
-DTW (DL)
-FLL (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-IAD (UA)
-LEB (9K)
-MCO (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-MVY (9K)
-ORD (AA, UA)
-PBI (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-PHL (US)
-TPA (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)

Those slots won't stay vacant for long... IIRC, FL fought hard to get HPN slots, and other airlines would likely fight for them. My money would be on B6 gaining more slots, but when it comes to LCCs, I wouldn't rule out NK or F9 (currently, DEN is not served from HPN). For legacies, I could see UA picking up some slots and adding DEN or IAH, or AA adding DFW; HPN lacks good westbound connections.

HPN’s slots are not like LGA’s slots, which are based on an airplane, no matter what size, a CRJ and a B-767 would be considered the same as far as the slot is concerned at LGA.

At HPN, there is a cap on passenger capacity, 240 passengers per half hour, not counting the individual passengers, but the passenger capacity of the airplane no matter what size airplane they land on. Also there are only 6 gates at the terminal, with just 2 of them with jet ways, the others are outdoor boardings.

Also there is a perimeter rule, I believe it is about 1000 miles, but all of Florida is allowed so there will never be any trans-con service out of HPN or service to DEN, DFW or IAH or any points farther west than ORD.

None of this will ever change, this is a result of the rich Greenwich CT NIMBY’s lawsuit filed against the airport many years ago which delayed the construction of the new terminal for over 10 years. Just mention the word HPN airport expansion in Greenwich and stand back and watch the fireworks erupt.

If DL does not move in and grab some of the passenger capacity, I am sure B6 will, I highly doubt that the unused passenger capacity will remain for very long.

JetStar

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-08-04 14:38:46 and read 4753 times.

No weight limit to my knowledge, but a pax per hour limit.

B6 would love to bring in more 320s...they can not and still be under the threshold

How about B6 to BOS? That would work!

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: JETSTAR
Posted 2012-08-04 17:35:28 and read 4549 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
No weight limit to my knowledge, but a pax per hour limit.

B6 would love to bring in more 320s...they can not and still be under the threshold

How about B6 to BOS? That would work!

As previously posted, HPN has a 120,000 pound weight limit, this is for both dual wheel and dual tandem wheel aircraft. In comparison at LGA the limits are 170,000 for dual and 360,000 for dual tandem wheel aircraft like the B-757.

I believe the 120,000 weight limit was done to appease the NIMBY’s, along with all the other restrictions because of their fears that HPN would become a mini LGA. There is still an active NIMBY movement to close HPN entirely and make it into a park. The airport is owned by Westchester County in New York, and is a cash cow for the county so they will never close HPN, but that still doesn’t stop the rich Greenwich people from trying, yet if you look at the license plates on all the cars parked in the parking lot, a majority are from Connecticut.

Almost the entire northeast section of the airport is right on the Greenwich town line, which is also the state line as well, and that section of Greenwich is one of the wealthiest sections of town. Minimum zoning in that general area is 4 acres, and a 4000 square foot McMansion there would be considered a guest house, most of the homes there are 8000 square feet and up. The North Greenwich Homeowners Assn. is a very powerful force with deep pockets, and they can exert enough political pressure on the Town of Greenwich as well to get the town government to side with them.

I worked at HPN for almost 20 years and saw first hand how much trouble the Greenwich NIMBY’s caused when the county first announced they were going to tear down the old Quonset hut building that served as the terminal and replace it with a modern terminal.

JetStar

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: HVNandrew
Posted 2012-08-04 18:04:04 and read 4501 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
How about B6 to BOS? That would work!

I think the E190 would be too much plane for that route. In the past it has been flown by US, CO, and 9K, never with anything larger than a B1900 (at least not to my knowledge). I'm surprised the route isn't flown by anybody anymore...but I guess unless 9K starts it again, nobody else will.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: ScottB
Posted 2012-08-05 14:08:35 and read 4159 times.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 17):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
How about B6 to BOS? That would work!

I think the E190 would be too much plane for that route. In the past it has been flown by US, CO, and 9K, never with anything larger than a B1900 (at least not to my knowledge). I'm surprised the route isn't flown by anybody anymore...but I guess unless 9K starts it again, nobody else will.

About 10 years ago, MQ flew ERJ's between BOS & HPN as well. I took that round-trip once thanks to a good weekend special fare. But there's really not much point to flying when you can drive between Westchester County & Boston in under three-and-a-half hours.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: bexf27
Posted 2012-08-05 16:58:55 and read 4055 times.

When I was a kid I flew RT BOS-HPN on Command Airways SH-330. Air Florida had flights to DCA with 732s. This was back in the old terminal......Very kewl.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner



Bexf27

[Edited 2012-08-05 17:00:48]

[Edited 2012-08-05 17:03:14]

[Edited 2012-08-05 17:13:54]

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-08-05 18:06:22 and read 3970 times.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 9):

I believe the average runway oength for a DC95 is around 7005 feet, while HPN's runway is only 6400 feet. I think they might be able to squeeze a DC95 into DCA's 6900 foot runway but 6400 might ge a little short. The 717 has a shorter minimum runway length so it's very possible that the 717 will be scheduled into HPN when the time comes.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: milesrich
Posted 2012-08-05 21:38:49 and read 3827 times.

Bob Bogash once claimed on this board or another than Pan Am did initial 707 (707-121 with JT-3A water injected engines) pilot training at HPN. I found that difficult to believe, based on the short runways and noise restrictions. Those Greenwich estates have been there for longer than 54 years.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: richierich
Posted 2012-08-06 06:58:21 and read 3686 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
They wont lose serice, but what a huge loss to ATL. Only mainline service to a huge connecting hub. Quite a shame
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be shocked if Delta brought the 717 into HPN once it comes on property. There's going to be a trickle-down effect with CR7s and CR9s having to go to markets where CR2s are operating, and with 7x CR7/9 on this route already for Delta, it could very easily drop to something around 4-5x daily 717s...4.5 717s in Delta's configuration would equate to the capacity Delta currently has to ATL.

I could definitely see the B717s bringing DL mainline back to HPN. They have to put them somewhere and I think FL proved, if nothing else, that this aircraft is almost a perfect size for a market like HPN. As for the chronic overcrowding at this facility, the B717 will probably only replace other aircraft on the route and therefore will only bring in incrementally more people to the airport.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 9):
What about them sending the DC-9 into HPN until the 717s came in? I mean, this could be an option if they start shuffling around the CR7s and CR9s before the 717s come into full service.

Anything is possible but I doubt it. Too noisy for the well-heeled towns that surround HPN.

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 7):
Looks like you're right - checking the schedule they do have 1 daily A320 to MCO this month. Googling it there is a 120k max weight at HPN unless you've gotten special clearance, which an A320 would be over unless it was very empty, so my guess is that B6 submitted the paperwork and got the thumbs up.

B6 used to fly A320s into HPN all the time - I recall flying to Florida on a very full Airbus a number of years ago - but I thought it was an all E190 airport now for the airline. I assumed there was some sort of rule change at the airport.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-08-06 07:08:52 and read 3666 times.

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 1):
I'm guessing B6 would like to have them.

B6 loves a garbage yield slot that's a bureaucratic nightmare   Speaking of which, anyone know how HPNNAS is doing? The first few months were barely half full on average.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-08-06 07:08:55 and read 3666 times.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 20):
I believe the average runway oength for a DC95 is around 7005 feet, while HPN's runway is only 6400 feet. I think they might be able to squeeze a DC95 into DCA's 6900 foot runway but 6400 might ge a little short.

DC-9-5s can use - and have used - MDW with no trouble. It's about the same amount of runway.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: richierich
Posted 2012-08-06 11:04:44 and read 3601 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 18):
About 10 years ago, MQ flew ERJ's between BOS & HPN as well. I took that round-trip once thanks to a good weekend special fare. But there's really not much point to flying when you can drive between Westchester County & Boston in under three-and-a-half hours.

Three and a half hours? There are flights between cities far closer than that! But I agree that the E190 is too big an aircraft for that route...maybe Cape Air can do it with something larger than a Cessna.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
Speaking of which, anyone know how HPNNAS is doing? The first few months were barely half full on average.

Sounds like you already know the answer then!   I never thought a daily HPNNAS was a good idea - maybe a Saturday only service but certainly not daily.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2012-08-06 11:19:45 and read 3571 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
Speaking of which, anyone know how HPNNAS is doing? The first few months were barely half full on average.

I always thought this was an odd route. NAS is nothing like the Florida destinations, which perform well and have a slight yield advantage over the JFK/LGA traffic.

I think B6 should become more daring and offer 300 daily seats on HPN-ORD. Skim some high-yielding business traffic from the hedge fund community in Greenwich, as well as the generally affluent and prosperous Westchester and Rockland Countries, as well as western CT. Chicago is a HUGE market, though not traditionally a focus for B6.

Most likely, the open capacity will go to bulking up HPN-Florida flying, unfortunately.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: richierich
Posted 2012-08-06 13:00:54 and read 3535 times.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 26):
Skim some high-yielding business traffic from the hedge fund community in Greenwich, as well as the generally affluent and prosperous Westchester and Rockland Countries, as well as western CT. Chicago is a HUGE market, though not traditionally a focus for B6.

Sounds great but the problem at ORD is the slots and space - B6 doesnt have them. I remember flying HPNORD in the late 1990s on a UA B737 and there were several flights offered. AA offered similar service with Fokkers. Nowadays it is all regional jets.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-08-06 13:08:06 and read 3519 times.

Quoting richierich (Reply 27):
Sounds great but the problem at ORD is the slots and space

ORD is not slotted, and B6 has the gate space for more flights if they are interested.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: JETSTAR
Posted 2012-08-06 13:20:23 and read 3490 times.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 21):
Bob Bogash once claimed on this board or another than Pan Am did initial 707 (707-121 with JT-3A water injected engines) pilot training at HPN. I found that difficult to believe, based on the short runways and noise restrictions. Those Greenwich estates have been there for longer than 54 years.

I started working at HPN in 1966 and I never heard any stories about PA using HPN for training purposes on their B-707’s.

I did see President Nixon land during a campaign tour at HPN in Air Force 1, then it was the VC-137 and followed in by a United Airlines DC-61 carrying the press corps, they parked at the Air National Guard ramp at the north side of the airport.

The photo of the Air Florida B-737 parked at the old terminal brings back many memories, I worked in a hangar nearby and walked on the ramp many times to go eat lunch or pick up our catering at the airport restaurant, then called Paster’s and later Don’s HPN. In those days there was no real security so we could walk on to the airport ramp and enter the terminal through the airport operations ramp office door.

I took one of those Air Florida flights to FLL, it went from HPN to DCA to JAX and ended in FLL. Worked out great for me, I left my car in the employee lot next to the hangar and walked to the terminal.

At one time what is now taxiway Charlie was runway 7-25. HPN when it was built by the military had the usual military triangular runway layout of 3 runways. I took off and landed on 7-25 a couple of times in my C-150, 7-25 was about 5500 feet in length so it was long enough to accommodate jet operations. One day the wind was blowing fairly hard right down runway 25 and I watched a Mohawk Airlines BAC-111 take off on runway 25 and go right over Purchase NY, another very wealthy town abutting the airport, I could imagine the phones lit up at the operations office right after the BAC-111 departed. Taking off in the opposite direction on runway 7 put the airplanes right over the expensive mansions in Greenwich. Because of all the noise complaints the County decommissioned 7-25 around 1969 or so and converted it to a taxiway.

I believe the County lowered the runway weight limits to 120.000 pounds because some corporations at HPN were operating B-727-100’s converted to corporate use, one company, Rapid American tried to base their B-727 at HPN, but were told politely their airplane was not welcome there on a permanent basis and to find another home for it, I believe they moved it to Newark Airport, but the company folded its flight department soon after. Another HPN based company W.R. Grace also operated a B-727-100 for a while and they relocated their corporate flight department to Stewart Airport for the same reason when they put their 727 into service, it was not welcome at HPN. There was no ban on 727’s operating out of HPN at the time, just that the County did not want to have these airplanes based at HPN

Thanks for letting me share some of my HPN memories.

JetStar

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: richierich
Posted 2012-08-06 13:38:45 and read 3447 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 28):
ORD is not slotted, and B6 has the gate space for more flights if they are interested.

Then apologies for my misunderstanding... then yes, I think 2-3 flights a day HPNORD would be great for B6 provided they can get the HPN slots (I know HPN is "slotted"!)

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-08-06 14:43:24 and read 3396 times.

"As previously posted, HPN has a 120,000 pound weight limit, this is for both dual wheel and dual tandem wheel aircraft. In comparison at LGA the limits are 170,000 for dual and 360,000 for dual tandem wheel aircraft like the B-757."

Yet B6 brings in the 320.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2012-08-06 16:14:31 and read 3328 times.

Quoting richierich (Reply 30):
Then apologies for my misunderstanding... then yes, I think 2-3 flights a day HPNORD would be great for B6 provided they can get the HPN slots

Yep. ORD used to be more heavily served by B6 (4x to JFK, 3x to BOS and 1x to LGB) but now is down to only 4-5 flights a day. That's really low utilization of a gate and counter space at the second busiest airport in the world. HPN-ORD is out-of-the-box thinking and non-traditional for B6. But it could very well be very profitable.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: JETSTAR
Posted 2012-08-06 17:48:38 and read 3258 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 31):
"As previously posted, HPN has a 120,000 pound weight limit, this is for both dual wheel and dual tandem wheel aircraft. In comparison at LGA the limits are 170,000 for dual and 360,000 for dual tandem wheel aircraft like the B-757."

Yet B6 brings in the 320.

With HPN’s perimeter rule of around 1000 miles, I don’t know the exact miles but I remember it used to be 900 miles, which allowed HPN-ORD nonstop service, but now it appears to have been extended to about 1000 miles. This is probably to cater to the wealthy Greenwich crowd who commutes to Florida in the winter, I guess the Greenwich NIMBY’s are willing to relax some of their restrictions if it is to their advantage.

I would assume the 120,000 pound restriction is for the take off weight of the individual flight, not the certified maximum take off weight of the A-320, since the flights to Florida are not going out with full fuel, the farthest destination is less than a 3 hour flight, they are probably under the runway weight limit for takeoff.

JetStar

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-08-07 06:24:48 and read 3040 times.

Quoting JETSTAR (Reply 33):
With HPN’s perimeter rule of around 1000 miles,

PBI is just over 1000 miles from HPN. It must be 1100 miles or something.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: HVNandrew
Posted 2012-08-07 07:50:21 and read 2962 times.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 34):
PBI is just over 1000 miles from HPN. It must be 1100 miles or something.

NAS is over 1100 miles, so it isn't that either.

Is there actually a perimeter rule in place at HPN? I know about the pax limits, weight restrictions, noise abatement procedures, etc. but this is the first I've heard about actual perimeter restrictions in place on the airport. I have searched the web for information and cannot find anything.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2012-08-07 08:00:19 and read 2948 times.

How about AA with service to MIA?

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: richierich
Posted 2012-08-07 08:25:38 and read 2917 times.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 35):
Is there actually a perimeter rule in place at HPN? I know about the pax limits, weight restrictions, noise abatement procedures, etc. but this is the first I've heard about actual perimeter restrictions in place on the airport. I have searched the web for information and cannot find anything.

I've never heard of a perimeter rule at HPN. And clearly either people are making it up (1000 or 1100 miles, etc.) or the airlines are getting permission to fly beyond the limit. I don't think any such rule exists.

HPN-FLL is 1100 miles and HPN-NAS is 1130 miles, according to WebFlyer.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: ScottB
Posted 2012-08-07 08:57:08 and read 2870 times.

Quoting richierich (Reply 25):
Three and a half hours? There are flights between cities far closer than that! But I agree that the E190 is too big an aircraft for that route...maybe Cape Air can do it with something larger than a Cessna.

But generally those flights are aimed mostly at connecting traffic, and BOS isn't exactly well-located for the purpose of a connecting hub. Who would fly HPN-BOS-XYZ when you can just go out of LGA or JFK? And honestly, I'd rather drive it than spend an hour in a noisy turboprop crossing Connecticut -- I have my vehicle at the other end, I can go on my own schedule, and I don't have to deal with TSA.

Quoting JETSTAR (Reply 33):
With HPN’s perimeter rule of around 1000 miles, I don’t know the exact miles but I remember it used to be 900 miles, which allowed HPN-ORD nonstop service, but now it appears to have been extended to about 1000 miles.

I don't believe HPN has a perimeter at all. AFAIK the only restrictions are the aircraft weight limits and terminal occupancy.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 8):
Looks like you're right - checking the schedule they do have 1 daily A320 to MCO this month.

Are you sure? I don't see any A320's having operated at HPN for B6 in the past week; it's all E190's. I do see one scheduled at the end of the month, but perhaps they are able to get permission from the County for a limited number of operations with aircraft exceeding the weight limit.

Topic: RE: Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?
Username: GolfBravoRomeo
Posted 2012-08-07 09:22:59 and read 2833 times.

From http://rye.patch.com/articles/county...s-by-offering-international-flight

"we [JetBlue] recently shifted from our A320 fleet to the E190’s to make sure we met the 240 passenger/hour allocation at all times of the day. We were not in violation of any weight limits; we removed the A320 due to passenger allocations and commercial optimization, and not due to any weight issues. Note: We were artificially capping our A320 flights to meet the restriction."

Also, the 240 passengers per half hour limit was on the books since 2003, seems no one was really counting until recently.


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