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Topic: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BW424
Posted 2012-07-16 21:00:56 and read 15590 times.

Greetings to all A.net patrons!

Welcome to the 100th instalment of Caribbean Aviation!!!. This 100th edition will put emphasis on the pivotal changes over the past 100 threads that have occurred in Caribbean Aviation. The past 100 threads consists of just about 6 full years of discussion, consisting approximately 200,000 posts!! The thread has rarely seen a dull moment with a plethora of lively and informative discussions. One cannot deny that some of these discussions developed into heated and emotional rantings, however, the single common element that unites all of us on here is our burning passion for the industry and our collective desire to see it thrive in a sustainable manner within our unique region.

Without further ado, I'd like to thank all members that have contributed to this milestone.

(Listed in alphabetical order)

2travel2know - Panama
817Dreamliner - Montserrat
8b775zq - St. Kitts and Nevis
9YCAL - Trinidad and Tobago
A388 - Curacao
AA1818 - Trinidad and Tobago
Airjamaica - Jamaica
Ahlfors - Canada/ Antigua
Andrefranca - Brazil
Baje427 - Barbados
BE77 - Canada
Beeweel15 - USA/ Trinidad and Tobago
BigMac - Suriname
Bloddyrascal - Bahamas
BW415 - Trinidad and Tobago
BW424 - Trinidad and Tobago
BW985 - Trinidad and Tobago
BWIA330 - Canada/ Trinidad and Tobago
BWIA772 - Barbados
CaptainK - Grenada
Caribbean484 - Trinidad and Tobago
Caymanair - Cayman Islands
CO777DAL - USA
Divemaster08 - Cayman Islands
GUYAIR707 - Guyana
Guyanam - Guyana/ USA
Hausauflennon - Barbados
Hummingbird- Jamaica
Inbound - Trinidad and Tobago
JM02 - United Kingdom/ Jamaica
JM017 - Jamaica
JM079 - Jamaica
JMBWEEBOY - Jamaica/ Trinidad and Tobago/ USA
Kasimir - Curacao
LIA310 - Grenada/ Trinidad and Tobago
LimaFoxTango - Antigua and Barbuda
LimaMike- Jamaica
Lucianflyboy - St. Lucia
MAH4546 - Sweden
MaverickM11 - USA
MBJ-11 - Jamaica
MD90fan - Bahamas
N312RM - Cayman Islands
NASBWI - Bahamas
OA260- Ireland
OP3000 - USA
PanAmOLDDC8 - Barbados
Panman - Trinidad and Tobago
Par13del - Bahamas
SJOtoLIR - Costa Rica
SCL767 - Chile
Speedbird2155 - United Kingdom
Speedbird2263 - Jamaica
TransIsland - Bahamas
TriniA340 - Trinidad and Tobago
Trintocan - Trinidad and Tobago/ United Kingdom
Turk223 - Barbados
Wadadli - Antigua and Barbuda
WestIndian425 - USA/ Trinidad and Tobago
Windian425 - Barbados
Yankeejuliet - Jamaica
Yellowtail -Belize

(I certainly hope I didn't forget anyone in the listing)




*****News Feed*******
AA to reduce MIA-UVF from daily to 4x weekly Aug. 21, 2012
Redjet officially ceases operations
CM starts PTY-CUR route (Jun 10, 2012)
LIAT hangar and DHC-8 (V2-LGH) destroyed in fire in ANU
BW begins LGW service with wet-leased Omni B763s 2x weekly
BW B763s sitting in MEX as TTCAA undergoes FAA audit
USA and PBM enter open skies agreement (Jun 21, 2012)
All JM-painted B738s to be rebranded to BW
BW to sell 4 of 9 ATRs ordered on open market
EZjet announces GEO-YYZ to begin July 17, 2012
BW reportedly loses ETOPS 120min certification





Happy Centurion Posting!!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-07-16 21:08:09 and read 15641 times.

Wow Thanks man and everyone for those 6 years, we had to rough times and the good times but 100 forums it just awesome.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: beeweel15
Posted 2012-07-16 23:01:48 and read 15569 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 1):
Wow Thanks man and everyone for those 6 years, we had to rough times and the good times but 100 forums it just awesome.

"Ditto"

Lets keep it going to the Second Centurion

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-17 04:51:29 and read 15477 times.

Hello all,

BW424 my apologies for not getting back on your request to give information on the first flight from the Caribbean to Europe (KLM's Fokker aircraft named Snip) but I am too busy at work and have gone to Colombia due to the premature birth of my children who are doing well by the way. I will go back and forth to Colombia (Bogota) a few times to see my family there. I can now join the fatherhood club 

It is great to see that we have reached this fantastic milestone. Congratulations to everybody and their contributions!!!

News from Curacao is that DAE will add 3 additional weekly flights starting this August to Miami. The new flight will depart Curacao at 9 PM and return the next day departing at 7 AM. This will bring DAE's total number of flights to Miami to 10 weekly and the total number of flights from Curacao to Miami to 31 weekly flights. On mondays, fridays and sundays there will be 5 flights from Curacao to Miami!!!

DAE will also receive their first of two ATR72's but I have no date yet.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-17 04:59:29 and read 15476 times.

See my latest photos added to the database and taken in Curacao by clicking on below links:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography




Cheers,

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-07-17 05:16:39 and read 15452 times.

Good job on the new thread. Centurion sounds downright Olympic so it is quite fitting

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: ETinCaribe
Posted 2012-07-17 06:00:59 and read 15421 times.

My favorite thread to read, always interesting and full of passion. Congrats to my Caribbean aviation addicts.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-07-17 07:48:39 and read 15380 times.

Congrats on making it to thread 100

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-07-17 08:34:47 and read 15345 times.

100th Caribbean aviation thread.. Kudos to all who made it happen..

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: westindian425
Posted 2012-07-17 08:39:52 and read 15349 times.

Nice title and intro for this thread!!

Now what's this about BW losing ETOPS? That would be a killer! That would affect the London and US routes, unless they want to go for the 747/A340. LOL!!! (Not gonna happen...)

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-17 12:50:03 and read 15227 times.

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 9):

Is this a further barrier for the LGW and if so what happens to the 2 767s. Nicholas will go down in history as CALs biggest disaster. Why so many mistakes?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-07-17 13:18:44 and read 15217 times.

Fingers crossed on CM announcements for the Caribbean folks. Sometime between now and september.

me thinks ANU, BGI, BON and BZE are all up for consideration!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-07-17 15:07:03 and read 15177 times.

Thanks for starting the new thread BW424, Congrats to everyone who has participated in the 6 years of the Caribbean aviation thread! , Heres to the next 100 threads!

Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):
All JM-painted B738s to be rebranded to BW

Expected. Well I guess thats that for JM, should have done so a long time ago.

Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):
BW to sell 4 of 9 ATRs ordered on open market

I posted in the previous thread that the JM liveried ATR was repainted into a ATR livery to be displayed at Farnborough.

Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):
BW reportedly loses ETOPS 120min certification

Hmmmm, I assume this may be a result of the FAA audit?

Quoting A388 (Reply 3):

Congrats on the birth of your children A388! Was wondering why you havent been on for a while good luck with the fathering  .

BTW A388 I posted som pics of a not so secret spotting location here in MNI have a look:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8025/7564891954_4ea7312178_b.jpg
IMG-20120713-00139 by 817Dreamliiner, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7253/7564892070_fbd3abf59c_b.jpg
IMG-20120713-00140 by 817Dreamliiner, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7130/7564892136_a72903771e_b.jpg
IMG-20120713-00142 by 817Dreamliiner, on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7264/7564891896_b6e8d70a2a_b.jpg
IMG-20120713-00143 by 817Dreamliiner, on Flickr

Hope you guys like them, they will be part of my trip report in September.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-07-17 16:21:16 and read 15129 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
me thinks ANU, BGI, BON and BZE are all up for consideration!

Change ANU and BON for GEO, PBM or SCU perhaps?
Folks on ANU finally noticed how many passengers CM is moving in SXM?
BON making an offer $$$ making CM think about that island?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: trintocan
Posted 2012-07-17 16:34:48 and read 15110 times.

Congratulations to all for this 100th Caribbean Aviation thread - in fact this thread is one of the pioneer regional threads on this site with several others having come about ever since. The timing is perfect with the London Games coming up and Caribbean expectations running high plus the 50th anniversaries of Independence for Jamaica and Trinidad & Tobago in August. Best wishes to all and let's keep the good work up.

Trintocan.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-17 17:42:26 and read 15073 times.

Congratulations guys, too all the caribbean folk! I love this part of the world, my first international destination since I was 7 years old! always sunny, people always smiling and friendly etc... etc.... in 2013 I'll have my 4 th return 
Quoting westindian425 (Reply 9):
Now what's this about BW losing ETOPS? That would be a killer! That would affect the London and US routes, unless they want to go for the 747/A340. LOL!!! (Not gonna happen...)

Oops, maybe we're going to see the LON route gone earlier than we thoouuuuuught!

Quoting guyanam (Reply 10):
Why so many mistakes

It can be a leader/CEO thing, on my 5 years of university on management grounds, we learn very often that some CEOs think they are THE entrepreneur because they made it to the ceo chair, but they lack vision or they spend much much much more thinking he'll gain the double, but it doesn't always happen! great example not only CAL, but Xerox, in the past there was no competitor and the CEO's on Xerox though they ruled the world, after many extravaganzas spending they felt it and today we almost don't hear of xerox anymore....

I don't know nicholas real background to judge him....

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
Fingers crossed on CM announcements for the Caribbean folks. Sometime between now and september.

I'll bet on BGI BZE VRA or even GCM SLU

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 12):
Expected. Well I guess thats that for JM, should have done so a long time ago.

Agreed! from the moment they had AJ that was that, I mean jmcans knew they'd no longer have their so beloved and original AJ, in my point of view the time and money they wasted trying to make the "one caribbean one airline" idea perfect will hurt for a while.... it's is a beautiful idea, we all here expect that, there was even a huge discussion on that, but can they afford it right now? hmmmmmmm....

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: N312RM
Posted 2012-07-17 18:15:12 and read 15055 times.

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 9):
Now what's this about BW losing ETOPS? That would be a killer! That would affect the London and US routes, unless they want to go for the 747/A340. LOL!!! (Not gonna happen...)

This doesn't seem right. To the best of my knowledge, it is the individual aircraft that receives ETOPS certification, not the airline. As I have said in the previous threads, when an airline introduces a new aircraft type, such as BW and the B767, they must be certified by their principal regulator, in this case the TTCAA, as fit to operate the type. In my mind, the issue must lie with the TTCAA giving the requisite approvals. I shudder to think of the financial consequences for BW if they are unable to get LGW service implemented soon.

It is really a shame that JM livery will disappear from BW aircraft, although the writing has been on the wall for some time. RIP JM!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BW424
Posted 2012-07-17 18:48:46 and read 15025 times.

Your most welcome guys! Let's keep up the great convos!

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 9):
Now what's this about BW losing ETOPS? That would be a killer! That would affect the London and US routes, unless they want to go for the 747/A340. LOL!!!

US routes will now be 10-15 minutes longer because of the need to stay within the 60min rule. This in effect causes the airline to spend millions more annually on fuel. As for LGW, forget about it with CAL equipment. This further pegs down the airline as now CAL has 2 763s that they now have to MAKE work for the 5 yrs that they are leased. I truly wish somehow CAL can get out of this 767 deal, but I doubt it.

Quoting A388 (Reply 3):

Congratulations on becoming a father A388!!

As for DAE, I guess they're doing well. 10x weekly seems pretty good. Whenever I'm heading to the airport gym and look at the departure screens, DAE always seems to be leaving later than usual. I'll check their load factors tomorrow to see how they're doing.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 12):
Hmmmm, I assume this may be a result of the FAA audit?

Not certain on that....probably someone closer to ground can confirm. But, I'd bet on that being the reason.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 15):
It can be a leader/CEO thing, on my 5 years of university on management grounds, we learn very often that some CEOs think they are THE entrepreneur because they made it to the ceo chair, but they lack vision or they spend much much much more thinking he'll gain the double, but it doesn't always happen! great example not only CAL, but Xerox, in the past there was no competitor and the CEO's on Xerox though they ruled the world, after many extravaganzas spending they felt it and today we almost don't hear of xerox anymore....

I don't know nicholas real background to judge him

You see, that's the misunderstanding right there. Nicholas was NEVER EVER CEO. He purported himself to be a high-handed know-it-all executive while he was a spoiled, ignorant, arrogant and disrespectful idiot. Nicholas was chair of the board. His role was suppose to be one of policy and strategic direction (things I'm sure he and is board have no clue of). They are not suppose to be involved in the day-to-day operations of the airline. Nicholas fired CEO Brunton to do just that. As for his background.......nothing to talk about.......his only position being within a family business. Anyway, he's gone, but his replacement isn't a "thank god" relief either; however, he is taking advice from the original management that still is at the airline.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: CO777DAL
Posted 2012-07-17 22:14:08 and read 14950 times.

Great milestone! Lets hope for some good news in this thread. I hope BW can get all there stuff sorted out.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-18 03:46:37 and read 14873 times.

Quoting BW424 (Reply 17):
You see, that's the misunderstanding right there. Nicholas was NEVER EVER CEO. He purported himself to be a high-handed know-it-all executive while he was a spoiled, ignorant, arrogant and disrespectful idiot. Nicholas was chair of the board. His role was suppose to be one of policy and strategic direction (things I'm sure he and is board have no clue of). They are not suppose to be involved in the day-to-day operations of the airline. Nicholas fired CEO Brunton to do just that. As for his background.......nothing to talk about.......his only position being within a family business. Anyway, he's gone, but his replacement isn't a "thank god" relief either; however, he is taking advice from the original management that still is at the airline.

Right, and as you're an insider, I ask you, how come he made it? I mean why did he last so long and who is he in TNT? is his family in the TNT politics? is he trini? how was he able to disgrace the airline so quickly (not only counting the wrong decisions)? no one saw that coming or were unable to make it stop? I might not know lots of CAL but it seemed to be a prominent airline in the caribbean, mainly after the "re-start up"? I flew it once, and found it OK. nothing more, nothing less.... and now it can vanish any second.

[Edited 2012-07-18 03:52:42]

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-18 04:03:46 and read 14865 times.

Challenge for CAL’s Jamaica operations
By Vernon Khelawan Thursday, July 12 2012

JAMAICANS by nature are passionately patriotic and fiercely loyal to their country and any indigenous industry they can lay claim to and these are the two attributes that could prove to be a tough challenge for Caribbean Airlines in its Jamaica operations for the remainder of 2012 and into 2013.

After posting serious losses of some (US)$38 million in 2011 and the prospects for 2012 not particularly bright, comes the news that a new Jamaican airline is about to take flight and will compete directly with CAL’s Air Jamaica brand on most of its lucrative routes to North America.

In a Jamaica Gleaner story last week, it was reported that Fly Jamaica Airways (FJA) is expected to begin operations next month with scheduled services to Guyana, New York and Toronto using its own B-757 twin-engined jet with a configuration of 12/186, making a total payload of 198 seats.

Chief Operating Officer (COO) Captain Lloyd Tai said FJA will appeal to the diaspora concentrated in these metropolitan areas in the US and Canada. He said, “It’s a Jamaican airline. Most of our staff will be Jamaican and persons in the diaspora will know that we are for them. They are more accustomed to a Jamaican airline.”

Tai’s statement must be regarded as a not so subtle hint that FJA was going after CAL’s Air Jamaica brand passengers and this was further amplified when Tai added, “Once the reaction is good and we expect it to be…” It would seem then it is CAL to catch.

Fly Jamaica Airways is a partnership between Guyana-born Paul Ronald Reece, who owns Guyana-based Wings Aviation Inc, and three Jamaican shareholders, including Tai and Manager, In-flight services Christine Steele.

So, apart from its current frightening financial position, State-owned Caribbean Airlines is facing a plethora of other challenges in many areas of its operations.

Two of these challenges which now seriously affect the airline’s bottom line are the leases they continue to pay Chilean airline LAN for airplanes they cannot now use and the urgent need to sell off four brand, new state-of-the-art ATR -72-600 aircraft, it had ordered, without actually taking possession of them.

A shortage of pilots is another challenge the airline is now dealing with. Acquisition of the ATRs, which now service the airbridge together with the aging Dash-8s as well as some other Caribbean destinations, means eventually getting rid of the present Dash-8-300 fleet.

This in turn means cockpit crews transitioning from the Dash to the ATRs, but since there is uncertainty in the arrival of the new planes, management is now forced to do a critical balancing act to keep just enough Dash-8 pilots while at the same time training pilots for duty on the ATRs, when the Dash-8s are finally replaced. The interim solution employed by the airline is hiring ‘ex-pat’ pilots on short term contracts to fly the Dash-8s.

On the other side of that coin however, is the situation with the crews have been trained, at great cost, to fly the two leased B-767-ER200 aircraft, which were earmarked to operate the London Gatwick services which was inaugurated on June 14 last. These crews while still being paid, have no alternative but to sit at home with no planes to fly.

Because of an oversight problem regarding the leased B-767s, which the Trinidad and Tobago Civil Aviation Authority (TTCAA) is now trying to resolve, CAL was forced into a wet lease agreement for a similar aircraft from Omni International, an aircraft leasing company based in Maryland, USA. Business Day understands the going rate for a wet lease arrangement is around (US)$1000 per hour, which means that a round trip POS-LGW-POS – could cost close to (US)$20,000.

The two planes in question, already painted in CAL’s colours and livery, remain sitting in Mexico awaiting solution of an oversight problem. Three weeks ago, a CAA official told Business Day those planes should become available to CAL by the end of July.

However, after four weekends of London service, Caribbean Airlines is yet to reveal how the transAtlantic loads have been. On its inaugural flight on June 14 there were 153 passengers to London and on the return, Business Day understands some 111 passengers travelled to Port of Spain.

Source: http://www.newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,163183.html



LIAT summer schedule gives customers more ways to connect
Thursday, July 12 2012

REGIONAL airline LIAT launched its 2012 summer schedule on Wednesday July 4 affording Car-ibbean travellers an extensive network to connect throughout its 21 destinations.

“This summer, LIAT is extremely happy to announce several new routes being offered providing more travel options to the regional market.

“We continue to add more efficient and effective ways of connecting the region and its people,” Manager Schedule Planning, Mr. Dale Stoute said adding that “this summer will be a very interesting and exciting one for the company.”

The ten-week schedule, which runs until September 11, will offer a daily service into and out of Martinique connecting passengers to Antigua and other destinations in the north.

A daily flight will also be introduced from St Kitts to San Juan, Puerto Rico through St Maarten, departing St Kitts at 6:45am and arriving in San Juan at 9:30am. Passengers travelling from San Juan to St Kitts will have two options, departing in the morning at 10:40am and 3:05pm daily.

Two daily San Juan flights from Tortola (British Virgin Islands) were also reintroduced offering morning and evening departures.

Meanwhile, customers originating or connecting in Antigua now have an additional flight to San Juan with the introduction of a 6:45am flight from the V.C. Bird International Airport and arriving in San Juan at 9:40am with the return flight departing at 8:35pm.

Stoute also noted that the addition of these services during the summer were expected to benefit passengers travelling to San Juan for shopping and other services as well as passengers connecting on other airlines through the San Juan hub.

Source: http://www.newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,163182.html

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: trintocan
Posted 2012-07-18 05:11:09 and read 14830 times.

Quoting N312RM (Reply 16):

This doesn't seem right. To the best of my knowledge, it is the individual aircraft that receives ETOPS certification, not the airline. As I have said in the previous threads, when an airline introduces a new aircraft type, such as BW and the B767, they must be certified by their principal regulator, in this case the TTCAA, as fit to operate the type.

No. There are 2 aspects to ETOPS, namely type approval which is granted to a particular model of aircraft during design certification. The other aspect is operational certification, which is granted to an airline by its regulatory body (in this case the TTCAA) based on the airline's ability to train staff, carry out maintenance procedures and so on with relation to safely conducting such flights. As such, while a 767-300ER may have type approval for say 120 minutes of ETOPS, an airline cannot simply buy one of them and start using it for such flights until it has operational certification. The airline may be able to fly the plane but would be restricted to routes not needing ETOPS approval. Recall if you may this issue arose around 2001 when Trinidad and Tobago was downgraded to Category 2 by the ICAO. Old BW wanted to buy A330s for its LHR route but with the downgrade the TTCAA could no longer grant any ETOPS approvals. BW was forced to buy A340s instead.

Trintocan.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: fpofllflyboi
Posted 2012-07-18 08:20:23 and read 14760 times.

Just read in "The Nassau Guardian" link below, that the Bahamas Ministry of Tourism is going after Latin Amierican residents.

Wondering what airlines they are in talks with and what destinations to add to Copa's PTY-NAS? TAM, LAN? What was surprising is that there is no liquor in the airports there, and is there really a market for this venture?


http://www.thenassauguardian.com/ind...ourists&catid=40:business&Itemid=2

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-18 10:49:54 and read 14701 times.

[quote=andrefranca,reply=20][



FJA will quickly drop its GEO routes if it is to survive. That market is already well served assuming that EZJet stays around.

We will see if FJA makes inroads into BWs KIN base. Maybe they will if their service is reliable.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: Inbound
Posted 2012-07-18 14:34:39 and read 14623 times.

Congratulations all on reaching 100 Threads.
Good job to a very small selection of members who have taken the personal responsibility of giving us a "home" on this forum over the last 6 years.

Here's to another 100  

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-07-18 15:29:00 and read 14659 times.

Quoting fpofllflyboi (Reply 22):
Wondering what airlines they are in talks with and what destinations to add to Copa's PTY-NAS? TAM, LAN? What was surprising is that there is no liquor in the airports there, and is there really a market for this venture?

TA(AV) for sure. TA has from time to time entertained the idea of expanding more into the Caribbean. With the Panamanian UA getting to all the low hanging fruit, they may have decided the time has come to jump in.

I know CM has been extremely happy with NAS....fur sure TA has seen that.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-18 15:35:30 and read 14649 times.

Quoting fpofllflyboi (Reply 22):

I agree with one thing on the article: "inflation prices make bahamas look cheaper" LOL but it's a fact, I've been traveling around on the past 6 years and prices in brazil are unbelievable.....

but G3 is more likely to fly to NAS , JJ very very unlikely, LA maybe.....

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: speedbird2263
Posted 2012-07-18 18:03:52 and read 14673 times.

Congrats on the Century not out! Here's to another 100!      

-2263

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: fpofllflyboi
Posted 2012-07-18 21:13:40 and read 14597 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 26):
but G3 is more likely to fly to NAS , JJ very very unlikely, LA maybe.....

G3 actually seems very probable or possible with many Brazilians trying to get to the US. Im absolutely NOT trying to say NAS is an alternative to the US but with Brazilians are still having a tough time getting tourist visas unless things have changed recently.

Any thoughts on flights from Mexico, Colombia or Venezuela?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-19 05:00:32 and read 14527 times.

Quoting fpofllflyboi (Reply 28):

G3's flight to MIA was imminent, they started offering out seats to pax redeeming their miles only, I believe the normal flights will soon follow....

the US visa thing can be annoying, when I got mine it was easy breezy, now I heard they're asking to see all the papers...
on the other hand, brazilian GOV is always in talks with Janet Napolitano secretary of homeland secuirty, to put Brazil for good on the visa waiver program, but I think it will take years!

I believe the bahamas will see a lot of us there, but right now the dollar is high compared to our currency so intl travel here is dropping once again....

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: windian425
Posted 2012-07-19 05:35:46 and read 14497 times.

Keeping my fingers crossed for the PTY-BGI CM service to start this year. Hopefully with the E190.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-07-19 06:05:39 and read 14484 times.

Quoting windian425 (Reply 30):
Keeping my fingers crossed for the PTY-BGI CM service to start this year. Hopefully with the E190.

Fingers crossed for you too at BGI....as long as it doesn't take the place of BZE-PTY 

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-07-19 07:29:46 and read 14455 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 31):
Fingers crossed for you too at BGI....as long as it doesn't take the place of BZE-PTY

Seems that GEO and PBM would have to wait.
A second CM Cuban destination - I believe - is a question of time now.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-19 09:13:24 and read 14401 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 12):
Congrats on the birth of your children A388! Was wondering why you havent been on for a while good luck with the fathering .
Quoting BW424 (Reply 17):
Congratulations on becoming a father A388!!

As for DAE, I guess they're doing well. 10x weekly seems pretty good. Whenever I'm heading to the airport gym and look at the departure screens, DAE always seems to be leaving later than usual. I'll check their load factors tomorrow to see how they're doing.

Thanks for your replies 817Dreamliiner and BW424!!! I guess because of the 100th anniversary of the Caribbean aviation threads, my post got overlooked by almost everybody else.

BW424, do you have the load factors for the DAE MIA flights? I wonder how that's going.

Cheers,

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BW985
Posted 2012-07-19 23:57:18 and read 14191 times.

Congratulations to all of us for reaching 100 Caribbean threads!  

Some good news at last?

http://www.newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,163540.html

BW985

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-07-20 07:07:26 and read 14101 times.

Skytrax list the best Caribbean/ Central American airports.

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Aw...2012/list_bestairport_camerica.htm

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: turk223
Posted 2012-07-20 12:58:43 and read 13966 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
Fingers crossed on CM announcements for the Caribbean folks. Sometime between now and september.

me thinks ANU, BGI, BON and BZE are all up for consideration!
Quoting andrefranca (Reply 15):
I'll bet on BGI BZE VRA or even GCM SLU
Quoting windian425 (Reply 30):
Keeping my fingers crossed for the PTY-BGI CM service to start this year. Hopefully with the E190.

From your all's mouths to Copa's ears... I am not able to handle one more 16 hour odyssey to get home from Colombia... I tell you!

Because of the hope this optimism from Caribbean Aviation thread buddies gives me, I'm holding back on buying my next flight back home for December... Fingers and toes all crossed.

Congrats on 100 threads... clearly we have a lot to say!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-07-20 13:04:01 and read 13968 times.

If CM do start PTY-BGI will it be launched this year?

Quoting turk223 (Reply 36):

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-07-20 13:14:09 and read 13961 times.

Quoting turk223 (Reply 36):
Because of the hope this optimism from Caribbean Aviation thread buddies gives me, I'm holding back on buying my next flight back home for December... Fingers and toes all crossed.

Me too, I have to buy some tickets to PTY, CTG and BOG for early next year that I am holding off on.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 37):

If CM do start PTY-BGI will it be launched this year?

Well if they announce in say September, that would be a Dec launch but nothing is written in stone.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-07-20 14:36:08 and read 13931 times.

Congrats all on the 100 thread mark! I see we have inspired many other regional forums on here. Congrats to A388 as well on becoming a father.



LIAT Shareholders reach decision on aircraft type for fleet renewal


BRIDGETOWN, Barbados, July 20, 2012 – The Majority Shareholders of LIAT,Dr. the Hon. Ralph Gonsalves, Prime Minister of St. Vincent & the Grenadines, The Hon. Freundel Stuart, Q.C., Prime Minister of Barbados and Dr. The Hon. Baldwin Spencer, Prime Minister of Antigua & Barbuda met with the Chairman, Board and Management of LIAT in Bridgetown, Barbados on Friday July 20, 2012 where the shareholders reached several major decisions on the Company’s re-fleeting plans.
 
Speaking at a press conference following the meeting, Dr. Gonsalves said the Company has completed its analysis and evaluation of the Proposals submitted by aircraft manufacturers.
 
The three Prime Ministers considered recommendations from the Company’s Board of Directors and Management and unanimously decided upon one aircraft type to renew LIAT’s ageing fleet. The Prime Ministers decided to defer the decision on other aircraft types to allow certain matters to be explored. It is anticipated that these decisions will be made in the short term.
 
“The Company will now proceed to discussions with the manufacturer of the first type selected. The discussions are intended to consummate in an agreement for the acquisition of new aircraft for the airline. For a number of reasons, we do not wish to declare just which aircraft type has been chosen. It would also be inappropriate at this stage before discussion with the manufacturers to give an indication of the decision of the Company in the selection of an aircraft type,” Dr. Gonsalves added.
 
The Company anticipates that these negotiations would commence immediately and proceed swiftly and soon thereafter a formal announcement will be made regarding the selection.
 
http://www.liat.com/navSource.html?page_id=654

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-07-20 15:33:47 and read 13915 times.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 39):

Nice to finally see some progress with LIAT

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BWIA 772
Posted 2012-07-20 18:56:18 and read 13849 times.

Congrats on thread 100, it was touch and go during the early days but it is nice to see how the thread has flourished.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 39):
http://www.worldairportawards.com/Aw...2012/list_bestairport_camerica.htm

Well hopefully the ATRs got the nod they really are the best aircraft for the LI route structure. I wonder what the time line will be for delivery of whatever type they choose.


Regards
BWIA 772

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-20 19:58:21 and read 13833 times.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 41):

Yes but wouldn't be a huuuuggggeeeee step backward to get LIAT staff already used to Dash metal to get new/different training, etc.... etc.... etc.... will that be cost effective on the long term?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-20 20:39:11 and read 13809 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 42):
Yes but wouldn't be a huuuuggggeeeee step backward to get LIAT staff already used to Dash metal to get new/different training, etc.... etc.... etc.... will that be cost effective on the long term?

There is no other option as a 50 seater turboprop replacement for LIAT so they don't have any more cost effective way if they want to improve their operational and maintenance costs. If the Q400 can be used throughout their network, even on routes where the Dash-8-100 is currently used, than obviously the Q400 is the better choice but what I've read so far, the Q400 is too much aircraft for all their routes.

How do you think other airlines are doing who have switched from Boeing to Airbus and vice versa? They chose what is best for their future needs. Or do you prefer to stay with older outdated aircraft that will fall apart sooner rather than later?

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-21 04:57:13 and read 13685 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 43):

Right Liat has to get new planes and make their business more efficient that's for sure, what I was trying to say with other words is: okay let's get the ATR's! but it means, we need new tools/equipment's , we need new training for both maintenance, ground and air staff, changes on systems or procedures, studies for future impact after the planes are being used, so many things, getin' NEW dashes COULD make things so much cheaper.... ok if the dashes are too much plane for them, then we need to sit and wait.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: JM017
Posted 2012-07-21 06:57:20 and read 13643 times.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 41):
Congrats on thread 100, it was touch and go during the early days but it is nice to see how the thread has flourished.

Yah, congrats! Never short on heated discourse, but for me these threads are highly informative.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-21 07:53:22 and read 13613 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 44):
but it means, we need new tools/equipment's , we need new training for both maintenance, ground and air staff, changes on systems or procedures, studies for future impact after the planes are being used, so many things, getin' NEW dashes COULD make things so much cheaper....

That's what you get when there is no other option in the 50-seat aircraft manufacturers. What new dashes do they need to get, the Q300 is no longer in production, are you aware of that?

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 44):
ok if the dashes are too much plane for them, then we need to sit and wait.

Wait for what, for your outdated aircraft to break down and fall from the sky or sit on the ground doing nothing because spare parts are too hard to come by? Let your operational costs increase massively because of old aircraft in your fleet which will effect your profitability? Lose because of fuel consuming aircraft while there is a better alternative and only alternative (ATR42-600)? Really, what do you want to wait for?

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BWIA 772
Posted 2012-07-21 07:55:24 and read 13614 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 44):

I really am not understanding where you are going with this. LI route structure is dominated by short routes, the majority of which do not require anything more than 50 seats. Given this fact the only real viable option for LI will be the ATR 42 aircraft. Additionally the Q400 is basically an entirely different than the 300s which LI operates. A point that is made stronger by the fact that LI Dash 8s are all early model with out the Quiet Technology. The simple fact is that during this round of fleet renewal especially after Bombardier stopped production of the Q200 and Q300 LI was at a major change with this current round of fleet renewal.

Major change in fleet is something that small and large airlines all over the world have done since the birth of commercial aviation. LIAT is not the first and it will not be the last.


What I am equally interested in, is who will become LI new CEO. I hope that they can get someone who can help the airline turn around and meet its potential. The same goes for BW.

Regards
BWIA 772

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-07-21 11:33:28 and read 13536 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 42):
Yes but wouldn't be a huuuuggggeeeee step backward to get LIAT staff already used to Dash metal to get new/different training, etc.... etc.... etc.... will that be cost effective on the long term?

CAL went the same route, don't recall hearing a big hoopla about that. Not the first time an airline would've switched from one aircraft manufacturer to another. LI does not need the range and speed that Q400 offers. Personally, I'm not an ATR fan, but if that's the way to go, well so be it. Still speculation anyway as to what manufacturer they chose, but word around the water cooler is ATR.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 44):
Right Liat has to get new planes and make their business more efficient that's for sure, what I was trying to say with other words is: okay let's get the ATR's! but it means, we need new tools/equipment's , we need new training for both maintenance, ground and air staff, changes on systems or procedures, studies for future impact after the planes are being used, so many things, getin' NEW dashes COULD make things so much cheaper.... ok if the dashes are too much plane for them, then we need to sit and wait.

So be it. All part of moving forward.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: Inbound
Posted 2012-07-21 12:38:44 and read 13527 times.

I'm still confused about why Bombardier discontinued production of the Q300s.
It's such a versatile aircraft. All they needed to do were an updated cabin and an avionics suite similar to the Q400.
Would have been a hot seller, I bet.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-21 12:57:48 and read 13500 times.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 47):
I really am not understanding where you are going with this.
Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 48):
So be it. All part of moving forward.

That's what andrefranca doesn't seem to understand but alright.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 49):
I'm still confused about why Bombardier discontinued production of the Q300s.
It's such a versatile aircraft. All they needed to do were an updated cabin and an avionics suite similar to the Q400.
Would have been a hot seller, I bet.

Good question but I think Bombardier analyzed the world demand for e 50-seat turboprop and didn't feel it is worth it to continue further developing the Q300. I remember reading in the past that the regional market projections were favoring regional jets. This was several years ago but now the turboprop is gaining momentum again, albeit still in smaller numbers so I'm guessing the ATR42 is enough to fulfill that demand, even on a worldwide basis.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-07-21 15:22:00 and read 13439 times.

They discontinued it because there was no demand even the ATR42 which seats 50 is a slow seller but it can still be produced as it manufactured on the ATR72 line whereas the Q200,300 were produced on a different line to the Q400. Given LI ops the only real option is the ATR the only real routes LI would benefit from the Q400 speed would be to GEO,CUR and SDQ.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 49):

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-07-21 16:11:59 and read 13433 times.

Quoting Inbound (Reply 49):
I'm still confused about why Bombardier discontinued production of the Q300s.

Probably also fell in love with the dream of serving the RJ market to their south, the Q400 is supposed to be an alternative to RJ's versus a refinement of the turbo-prop, its speed and sophistication was / is supposed to appeal to airlines operating jet's, all items which have made its price high and its despatch rate somewhat lower than the slower less sophisticated ATR's.

A need exist for a 50 seat turbo-prop, there are regions of the world where jets either small or large are just not practical, look around the Caribbean. Bombadier decided that the market was not in their plans, the idea that the Q400 could operate those flights with the same economics with the larger revenue potential is not panning out, hauling around 30+ empty seats and burning the associated fuel is a killer, one needs to be able to fill those additional seats.

AA operated ATR's at SJU for many years, unless all the locals went to the USA, some expats can be gotton cheap to assist with training etc.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: westindian425
Posted 2012-07-21 16:54:40 and read 13418 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 50):
Good question but I think Bombardier analyzed the world demand for e 50-seat turboprop and didn't feel it is worth it to continue further developing the Q300. I remember reading in the past that the regional market projections were favoring regional jets. This was several years ago but now the turboprop is gaining momentum again, albeit still in smaller numbers so I'm guessing the ATR42 is enough to fulfill that demand, even on a worldwide basis.

Yeah...what he said!

By the way, congratulations A388 on becoming a new father! You're one step ahead of me, sir! lol

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-21 17:16:28 and read 13411 times.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 51):

Yes, indeed, although DAE used to use their ATR on the CUR-SXM route....

Quoting A388 (Reply 50):

I was not aware they've discontinued.... so fingers crossed to the new acfts whichever model they choose 

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-07-21 18:37:26 and read 13372 times.

Was searching the photo database and noticed these photos of Montserrat and thought I would share them here:

One with the Volcano from 2003:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Gow



Destroyed MNI airport from 2004:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Henry Lidster
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Henry Lidster



I remember when I was younger, seeing the LIAT dash 8s landing here. Was always a great sight.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-21 20:04:13 and read 13346 times.

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 53):
By the way, congratulations A388 on becoming a new father! You're one step ahead of me, sir! lol

Thanks westindian425, so I'm guessing you're about to become a father too 
Quoting andrefranca (Reply 54):
Yes, indeed, although DAE used to use their ATR on the CUR-SXM route....

CUR-SXM to my knowledge is well within the range of the ATR42.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-07-21 20:09:12 and read 13331 times.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 51):
Given LI ops the only real option is the ATR the only real routes LI would benefit from the Q400 speed would be to GEO,CUR and SDQ.

That's 3 out of 21 destination LI serves. Clearly wouldn't make sense to to get a Q400 just for that. MQ operated the ATR's throughout the region for many years going practically everywhere LI goes and they survived just fine.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 54):
I was not aware they've discontinued.... so fingers crossed to the new acfts whichever model they choose

Production for the 100/200/300 ended in 2009.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-22 07:26:41 and read 13220 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 55):

Hey one question out of curiosity, were you already abroad when Sufriere hills started its action on your island? if not how was it? I remember some time ago it started "spitting" ashes once again, I'm pretty sure 2013 is the year I'll finally make it to MNI I hope 

I remember getin' to know a lot of people who are actually montserratians and they had to move due to the Soufriere eruption!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: AFCDGPTP
Posted 2012-07-23 08:57:10 and read 12954 times.

Hey guys !I know I do not post often on this thread, but here are some infos about what's going on in the french islands :

This summer again, AF 320 is operating flights to MBJ from PTP

XL airways France is launching CDG PTP (3x week); and CDG FDF (3x week) using an 333 that they will be getting in NOV with a 2-class configuration holding 408 seats ! (Ouch !)

(Sorry in french)

http://www.domactu.com/actualite/127...deloupe-parispointe-a-pitre-a-399/

XL France currently operates:
2 A332 (2-class 364 seats)
3 B737-800 (189 seats)
1 A320 (180Y)

Former XL (Star Airlines) did operate PTP & FDF from CDG for a few months for T.O Look Voyages

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-23 09:14:03 and read 12938 times.

Quoting AFCDGPTP (Reply 59):
Hey guys !I know I do not post often on this thread, but here are some infos about what's going on in the french islands :

Great thanks for sharing this information with us AFCDGPTP!!! We need updates from the French Caribbean aviation as well!!! I'm very glad you provide us with the information. Which other airlines fly to PTP from Europe? Air France, Caraibes, Corsair, Air Italy/Livingston? What about South America, any plans for charter flights from South America? Does the government in Guadeloupe/Martinique offer incentive programs or seat guarantees to airlines wanting to fly there?

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-07-23 09:39:02 and read 12937 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 60):
What about South America, any plans for charter flights from South America? Does the government in Guadeloupe/Martinique offer incentive programs or seat guarantees to airlines wanting to fly there?

That tragic Colombian MD80/DC9 West Caribbean crash in Venezuela some years ago was a charter returning to PTP/FDF.
Air Caraïbes dropped PTY and since then hasn't shown any interest to return here. However, I would think with some kind of incentive, PTY could get KL to push AF to offer PTP/FDF-PTY in code-share w/CM, as long as there're immediate connections on the islands to/from CDG or ORY.
However my dream route would be ORY-FDF-PTY-PPT-NOU

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-23 10:06:30 and read 12903 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 61):
However my dream route would be ORY-FDF-PTY-PPT-NOU

Wow, that's a very exotic dream route, nice though!!!  

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-23 10:51:46 and read 12879 times.

Quoting AFCDGPTP (Reply 59):

Your posts are much appreciated as we almost never get info on the Frech Caribbean, even though Air Caraibe is as large as Caribbean Airline,s as measured by revenues & passenger kilometers floown (maybe even larger by now).

I was told that there will be a reconfiguaration with the Embraers gone as well as service to CAY and BEL and the ATRs are back in SDQ and PAP. Also with American Eagle off by next year April will SJU be added? FDF/PTP are very challenged in air access to the USA beyond MIA and AF leaves too early to allow connections.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-07-23 12:42:46 and read 12830 times.

Are you saying the Embraer is leaving the fleet I am surprised they never tried FDF-MIA or PTP-MIA I beleive the Embraer has the legs to make the route.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 63):

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-23 13:08:42 and read 12820 times.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 64):
I am surprised they never tried FDF-MIA or PTP-MIA I beleive the Embraer has the legs to make the route.

Air Caraibes used to operate the route on behalf of Air France, see below photos:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Morris Biondi
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Kaskel




The only logical explanation I can think of is that Air France has exclusivity on the MIA route, hence Air Caraibes not operating the route by themselves. I don't understand why the arrival and departure times are planned the way they are (over night in MIA).

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: trintocan
Posted 2012-07-23 13:24:56 and read 12800 times.

Congrats A388 on becoming a father! That is a major milestone indeed. All the very best to you and yours for the future.

Quoting A388 (Reply 65):
The only logical explanation I can think of is that Air France has exclusivity on the MIA route, hence Air Caraibes not operating the route by themselves. I don't understand why the arrival and departure times are planned the way they are (over night in MIA).

Yes, AF have flown the routes from PTP and FDF to MIA, often using A320s. I'm unaware of any exclusivity to that route but perhaps it is a matter of demand only being sufficient for one carrier on the route. One does not hear of MIA - French Islands routes being as competitive as those to SDQ, MBJ, SJU or POS, for instance.

Quoting par13del (Reply 52):

Probably also fell in love with the dream of serving the RJ market to their south, the Q400 is supposed to be an alternative to RJ's versus a refinement of the turbo-prop, its speed and sophistication was / is supposed to appeal to airlines operating jet's, all items which have made its price high and its despatch rate somewhat lower than the slower less sophisticated ATR's.

A need exist for a 50 seat turbo-prop, there are regions of the world where jets either small or large are just not practical, look around the Caribbean. Bombadier decided that the market was not in their plans, the idea that the Q400 could operate those flights with the same economics with the larger revenue potential is not panning out, hauling around 30+ empty seats and burning the associated fuel is a killer, one needs to be able to fill those additional seats.

Absolutely correct. The Q400 (the term Dash 8 has been dropped now) was indeed developed as a complement to the CRJ family. Latterly, with the Regional Jet boom going the same was as the dot.com boom, the Q400 has seen success as a Regional Jet replacement (eg FlyBe in the UK). It is this success and the fact that the Q400 evolved away from the earlier Dash 8 models which led Bombardier to drop production of the earlier series. As far as LI are concerned, the Q400 could probably work for them on longer, heavier routes such as POS - ANU, POS - BGI and BGI - ANU along with the aforementioned services to GEO, SDQ and CUR but the shorter hops are likely to be problematic with that type. The Q400 really is not designed for that sort of operation. That said, the Q400 was stated to be able to break even with just 35 seats filled at a time - though perhaps not on very short hops.

The ATR is the best suited type to LI's needs. One wonders whether ATR may try to sell them some of the ATR-72-600s which BW have decided not to take, perhaps offering them a sweet deal along with some ATR-42-600s.

Trintocan.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-23 13:59:19 and read 12783 times.

Quoting trintocan (Reply 66):
Congrats A388 on becoming a father! That is a major milestone indeed. All the very best to you and yours for the future.

Thanks trintocan, I'm very much looking forward to being a father 
Quoting trintocan (Reply 66):
Yes, AF have flown the routes from PTP and FDF to MIA, often using A320s. I'm unaware of any exclusivity to that route but perhaps it is a matter of demand only being sufficient for one carrier on the route. One does not hear of MIA - French Islands routes being as competitive as those to SDQ, MBJ, SJU or POS, for instance.

All good points, yes. Demand probably isn't that big as you said.

Quoting trintocan (Reply 66):
The ATR is the best suited type to LI's needs. One wonders whether ATR may try to sell them some of the ATR-72-600s which BW have decided not to take, perhaps offering them a sweet deal along with some ATR-42-600s.

The advantage of the ATR for LIAT is that they can have a more flexible fleet by using both the ATR42 and ATR72 on routes the capacity of those two models is needed. If they go for the Q400 (even if they get a sweet deal) they have the disadvantage over the longer term in that they will be using a larger aircraft on routes that really don't necessitate such a large aircraft, the Q400. I think the Q300 would have been the best option for them but seeing that the Q300 is no longer in production, the ATR42 is their only option if they want to go for brandnew replacements.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-07-23 14:18:02 and read 12761 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 58):
Hey one question out of curiosity, were you already abroad when Sufriere hills started its action on your island? if not how was it? I remember some time ago it started "spitting" ashes once again, I'm pretty sure 2013 is the year I'll finally make it to MNI I hope 

I remember getin' to know a lot of people who are actually montserratians and they had to move due to the Soufriere eruption!

Yes I was still here when it started, only moved to the UK last September being really young then it was quite confusing for me when it started. I remember one of the first eruptions there was a total black out (like an eclipse) during the day all of a sudden, which was quite scary. Quite a few people lost their homes on the southern part of the island as a result and had to relocate elsewhere, at the time the northern part of the island wasn't developed as the south was also a reason why many had to leave and go elsewhere, fortunately for me and my family we were located more on the western side of the island which was pretty much the least affected from the eruptions (apart from the northern side), but was still close to the nearest affected area, so we were lucky! I still live on the western side but more to the north. And yes it was erupting recently but to be honest it seems like a long time ago (2010 if I remember correctly) so you shouldn't be too worried. Hope you manage to make it. If you do I can tell you how to get to that spotting location if your interested 

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-23 14:20:24 and read 12761 times.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 64):

So said a rep from the French Antilles at a recent CTO forum in NYC. Earlier this year someone reported that AirC was looking to reduce losses.

Quoting A388 (Reply 65):

AF uses the same plane via PAP,PTP,FDF all the way to CAY. So they need an early departure from MIA. Its likely that most of their traffic ex MIA are traveling to PAP and prefer a morning departure, this being O&D. Also before Air C began direct service to PAP from Paris the plane had to get to PTP early enough to make that connection. This is less critical now with direct service now available.

Quoting A388 (Reply 67):

Given that LIAT is cash strapped they will go for whoever offers the best financing. Their planes are on their last legs now and its way past time that they should have been mothballed. These planes are hitting on 20 years old!!! LI is desperate to replace, fearing being barred, no doubt from SJU.STT.STX on the ground sof the planes not being deemed airworthy. Their maintenance costs are a nightmare and I suspect they fear increasing difficulties sourcing parts.

You should see them...its like a minibus somewhere in the rural Caribbean. I can see a non Caribbean person, not familiar with our high safety standards, being quite alarmed, half expeting to see a chicken suddenly bursting out of some one's hand luggage, this fulfilling their stereotype of a dangerous third world airline...which of course LIAT isnt.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: wadadli
Posted 2012-07-23 17:01:58 and read 12708 times.

Congrats on reaching the 100 thread milestone!!! Keep it up folks!


Westjet announced today YYZ-ANU service effecgtive Oct 28th along with 3 other sun destinations

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=692

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-07-23 18:46:48 and read 12665 times.

Congrats on 100!

Congrats to A388 also, I became a father last year September, and for me it is like nothing else. The reason I don't get a chance to do trip reports is because he is a handful. Enjoy!!

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: TriniA340
Posted 2012-07-23 19:02:51 and read 12652 times.

Congratulations and All the best to GUYAIR707 & A388. Being a parent is the most difficult job in the world, but it's also the most rewarding! I'm not a parrent yet, but I know how challenging the first months can be....

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: westindian425
Posted 2012-07-23 20:28:44 and read 12618 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 56):
Thanks westindian425, so I'm guessing you're about to become a father too 

Okay, make that 3 steps ahead of me. I have to meet the girl first, then get married, then be a father. lol!

Remember when LIAT used to run the HS-748 and the Twin Otter? How did those two fleet types work for their business model at the time? I was too young to know about the financial aspect. I just remembered seeing them go in and out of SLU when I spent a couple of years living right by the airport.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-23 21:37:21 and read 12599 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 69):
You should see them...its like a minibus somewhere in the rural Caribbean. I can see a non Caribbean person, not familiar with our high safety standards, being quite alarmed, half expeting to see a chicken suddenly bursting out of some one's hand luggage, this fulfilling their stereotype of a dangerous third world airline...which of course LIAT isnt.

Man I swear I though that when I flew LIAT from SLU to SVD hahahah there was a guy CHECKING chickens/cock INN!!! lots of them. I was not concerned about LI's fleet, but some planes were very old and smelly! but after Winair, Tiara's short plane (falling apart)....

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-24 04:49:09 and read 12504 times.

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 73):
Okay, make that 3 steps ahead of me. I have to meet the girl first, then get married, then be a father. lol!

Hahaha, okay. The sequence is good to start with and I'm sure your day will come my friend  
Quoting westindian425 (Reply 73):
Remember when LIAT used to run the HS-748 and the Twin Otter? How did those two fleet types work for their business model at the time? I was too young to know about the financial aspect.

Same here, I saw those LIAT HS748's and Twin Otters often when I was in SXM in the 80's. Too bad I didn't have a camera at the time!!!

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-07-24 06:39:08 and read 12471 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 69):
Given that LIAT is cash strapped they will go for whoever offers the best financing. Their planes are on their last legs now and its way past time that they should have been mothballed
Quoting westindian425 (Reply 73):
Remember when LIAT used to run the HS-748 and the Twin Otter? How did those two fleet types work for their business model at the time?

Financing is one thing politics is another, the HS-748 ( God rest their soles) were a hold over from our colonial legacy, they were purchased throughout the english speaking Caribbean with some financial assistance from the UK, I do not think any user of the a/c can claim they were good purchases, especially when compared to the competition at the time the F-27.
Our Canadian cousins used that legacy to get us the Dash-8's, compared to the ATR's we may have some similar feeling, I must admist I was shocked when the ATR's were purchased in Trinidad, I thought the political influence would continue to rule.
Last government here also advised that they would be getting Q-400's to replace the Boeing jets, fortunately / unfortunately, the current party in power was also the ones who negotiated our last glorious deal for the Dash-8's revealed via a commission of inquiry, so will see what happens in the future.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-07-24 07:37:18 and read 12431 times.

For those with the knowledge how good is the Dash 8 100 and 300 for Caribbean ops.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-24 08:24:03 and read 12424 times.

Quoting baje427 (Reply 77):
For those with the knowledge how good is the Dash 8 100 and 300 for Caribbean ops.

What I read here in the forum, the 100 and 300 are indeed well suited to operate into and out of most Caribbean airports. I think members Inbound and AviatorG(?) can tell you much more as they have been (Inbound) or are still flying the Dash-8's (AviatorG).

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: AFCDGPTP
Posted 2012-07-24 08:58:52 and read 12404 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 60):
Great thanks for sharing this information with us AFCDGPTP!!! We need updates from the French Caribbean aviation as well!!! I'm very glad you provide us with the information. Which other airlines fly to PTP from Europe? Air France, Caraibes, Corsair, Air Italy/Livingston? What about South America, any plans for charter flights from South America? Does the government in Guadeloupe/Martinique offer incentive programs or seat guarantees to airlines wanting to fly there?

ALITALIA B772 & NEOS B763 also fly to PTP from Itlaly for Costa croisieres during winter time

I recently posted a thread on the new airline a group of Air Caraibes pilots are launching : FREEDOM AIR using 2 B735s

There are in talks with politicians in Guadeloupe, Martinique & French Gaiana to be part of the project

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-24 09:37:14 and read 12379 times.

Quoting AFCDGPTP (Reply 79):
ALITALIA B772 & NEOS B763 also fly to PTP from Itlaly for Costa croisieres during winter time

I recently posted a thread on the new airline a group of Air Caraibes pilots are launching : FREEDOM AIR using 2 B735s

There are in talks with politicians in Guadeloupe, Martinique & French Gaiana to be part of the project

Thanks for the update AFCDGPTP. I remember that thread about Freedom Air. Have the 2 735's already arrived in PTP? What routes are they planning to start with? Will they overlap many Air Caraibes routes or will they focus on totally different markets? Can the local market support three local airlines?

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-07-24 09:38:18 and read 12385 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 78):

Congratulation on Fatherhood A388 all the best to your and your family

As for the Dash8 debacle, the Q100/300 have done a great job over the last few decades with LI and BW/CAL.
As for the ATRs well there is someone in the CAL forum on fb that provided some info as to why the airline went ATR instead of the Q400 and one of the major reasons was running flights below 350nm. CAL got a good kickback for switching fleet, low financing and lower initial cost.
According to my sources at CAl the ATRs are performing much better than the Q300 with better fuel burn and lower trip cost. The only issues were the baggage capabilities on the POS-CCS-POS and the initial tech problems, but those have been ironed out.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-24 09:56:32 and read 12374 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 81):
Congratulation on Fatherhood A388 all the best to your and your family

Thanks Caribbean484   

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 81):
CAL got a good kickback for switching fleet, low financing and lower initial cost.
According to my sources at CAl the ATRs are performing much better than the Q300 with better fuel burn and lower trip cost. The only issues were the baggage capabilities on the POS-CCS-POS and the initial tech problems, but those have been ironed out.

Thanks again Caribbean484, good to read the ATR72-600 is performing well and safing Caribbean Airlines some money. That's why they ordered these brandnew babies 

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-07-24 10:17:30 and read 12362 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 81):
As for the Dash8 debacle, the Q100/300 have done a great job over the last few decades with LI and BW/CAL.

I think the biggest issue UP has had with them is that they are not as rugged, they are good airplanes and carry a good load, its just that if the majority of your flights are within one hour or less flying your landing and takeoff cycles are high you will run into maintenance issues.

Quoting A388 (Reply 82):
That's why they ordered these brandnew babies

This is what most carriers in the Caribbean need to do, spend the money up front getting new frames which will keep initial maintenance low versus getting frames as cheap as possible and having politicians b*** and moan for the next couple years how much money the airline is costing the governments.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-07-24 10:23:04 and read 12358 times.

Quoting TriniA340 (Reply 72):

Thank you.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-24 10:47:00 and read 12351 times.

[quote=westindian425,reply=73]

The 748s ran the same routes that the dash runs now except in those days LI didnt have the express routes it has now, like ANU/BGI,ANU/SJU,ANU/SLU, etc. It was a real island hopper, kind of like using the "local" if you know NYC subways.There as actually a route that ran ANU/PTP/DOM/FDF/SLU/BGI/SVD/GND/POS.

The twins did the small islands like AXA,NEV,MNI, and the Grenadines.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-07-24 10:49:01 and read 12360 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 83):

I think the biggest issue UP has had with them is that they are not as rugged, they are good airplanes and carry a good load, its just that if the majority of your flights are within one hour or less flying your landing and takeoff cycles are high you will run into maintenance issues.

I have to agree there, the Q300s are great aircrafts, but from what I heard the sub 200nm routes kill the a/c in cycles and maintenance cost. Maintenance of the Q300 are getting higher as time passes by hence the reason CAL choose not to refurbished them, but rather replace the fleet.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-07-24 11:48:14 and read 12326 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 85):
It was a real island hopper, kind of like using the "local" if you know NYC subways.

Yeah, but without the rust / corrosion  

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: trintocan
Posted 2012-07-24 15:56:49 and read 12241 times.

Congratulations Guyair707, it seems as if fatherhood is sweeping our community. Best wishes to you and yours now and always.

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 73):

Remember when LIAT used to run the HS-748 and the Twin Otter? How did those two fleet types work for their business model at the time? I was too young to know about the financial aspect. I just remembered seeing them go in and out of SLU when I spent a couple of years living right by the airport.

As Guyanam mentioned, the Avros flew to the larger islands and the Twin Otters to the smaller ones. At one time LI also flew an Embraer Bandeirante on behalf of the Grenadian Government plus had a fleet of Britten-Norman Islanders. The smaller props were organised into two subsidiaries, namely 5 Islands Air Services and Inter-Islands Air Services. 5 Islands Air Services flew among ANU, SKB, MNI, NEV and Barbuda using the Twotters (the first of which was owned by MNI) while Inter-Islands Air Services served the Grenadines. Inter-Islands' flights ran daily in each direction GND - Carriacou - Union - Cannouan - Mustique - SVD - UVF - SLU. That route became the last LI route to serve UVF. By the early 1990s when Bequia gained an airport it was served and Cannouan was dropped, then later only Carriacou and Mustique (if I recall correctly) were served. When the Twotters left the fleet all flights to the Grenadines stopped until 2009 when LI returned to Cannouan from BGI and GND. Sadly LI lost a Twotter in 1986 on its way from SVD to SLU. Nonetheless the Twotters outlasted the other smaller types.

When the Dash 8s first appeared in LI colours in the mid 1980s, they mostly served routes in the northern half of LI's network and were largely based at ANU while the Avros served the southern islands - I recall never seeing Dash 8s in POS until the 1990s. BGI was the Avros' main base. Back in 1988 I visited SLU and saw a Dash 8 there and was quite taken aback at how modern it looked - and noted that I had never seen one in POS although LI's publicity on TV often featured them. The Avros ceased flying in 1995 and while thought was given at a time to operating cargo services with them the plans were dropped.

LI started flying the faster "express" routes in the 1990s as well, with POS getting a daily 3 stop service to ANU (via GND, SVD and SLU) and one-stops to BGI (via GND, SVD or TAB). Of late. of course, the faster services have been further streamlined as the "whole-island-chain" routes have largely disappeared.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 81):
As for the Dash8 debacle, the Q100/300 have done a great job over the last few decades with LI and BW/CAL.
As for the ATRs well there is someone in the CAL forum on fb that provided some info as to why the airline went ATR instead of the Q400 and one of the major reasons was running flights below 350nm. CAL got a good kickback for switching fleet, low financing and lower initial cost.

Very much the point I made earlier, the ATRs are designed for shorter hops than the Q400s.

Trintocan.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-07-25 09:37:51 and read 12035 times.

Quoting trintocan (Reply 88):

Thank you very much.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-25 09:48:36 and read 12037 times.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 71):
Congrats to A388 also, I became a father last year September, and for me it is like nothing else. The reason I don't get a chance to do trip reports is because he is a handful. Enjoy!!

GUYAIR707

I totally overlooked your post GUYAIR707, my most sincere apologies!!! Thank you for your nice comments!!! I'm also looking forward to being a father very much 

Cheers,

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: lucianflyboy
Posted 2012-07-25 10:57:15 and read 12008 times.

Quoting BW424 (Thread starter):
AA to reduce MIA-UVF from daily to 4x weekly Aug. 21, 2012

Firstly, congrats on the 100th!!! Secondly, I am so happy for those forum because it keeps me in touch with what is going on in the region. I feel honored to by the only St Lucian!   

Meanwhile, the MIA-UVF flight has been reinstated to daily service. Seems there were some deals signed with the newly appointment government and the flight is daily. It will be a daily B757 into UVF from Miami.            

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-25 11:19:10 and read 12014 times.

Quoting lucianflyboy (Reply 91):
It will be a daily B757 into UVF from Miami.

Wow, is demand that high to warrant a 757 or is the route heavily subsidized?

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-07-25 11:35:26 and read 12009 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 92):
Wow, is demand that high to warrant a 757 or is the route heavily subsidized?

Its the latter, the route is heavily subsidized, most of the routes are and AA was dropping it due to lower demand.
With OW dropping SLU-SJU and AA reducing flights overall capacity was cut by some 20% year over year.

[Edited 2012-07-25 11:49:30]

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-25 12:11:53 and read 11973 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 93):
Its the latter, the route is heavily subsidized,

I thaught so too, that will cost the government millions of dollars if those seats are not filled. Good luck to them, I wish them well of course.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: lucianflyboy
Posted 2012-07-25 12:25:46 and read 11961 times.

UVF moves a bunch of cargo also and the B737 really didn't cut it at times.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-25 13:09:12 and read 11944 times.

Quoting lucianflyboy (Reply 95):

I wish GOVSLU could promote more this beautiful island! the pitons/beaches are amazing! When is UVF going to have south american flights? I remember taking off from SLU I felt we were going to crash in the end of the tiny runway LOL. 

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-25 13:18:57 and read 11950 times.

Quoting lucianflyboy (Reply 95):
UVF moves a bunch of cargo also and the B737 really didn't cut it at times.

Is that really the reason that this flight is being done? What type of cargo is flown on those AA flights? What is flown by air to UVF in general?

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: trintocan
Posted 2012-07-25 13:36:34 and read 11942 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 96):

I wish GOVSLU could promote more this beautiful island! the pitons/beaches are amazing! When is UVF going to have south american flights? I remember taking off from SLU I felt we were going to crash in the end of the tiny runway LOL.

St Lucia is already very well promoted and deservedly so, it is indeed a very beautiful island with great scenery, fabulous beaches, rugged mountains and vibrant culture. Back in the 1980s and early 1990 LI flew from SLU (not UVF) to CCS, I also recall Viasa flying CCS - UVF some time before that. As of now, though, flights to South America largely operate to islands with cultural connections and / or geographical proximity, so think POS, SDQ, HAV, SJU, CUR and AUA. The Gol flights to BGI form perhaps the major exception to this rule. I am not including flights to GEO, PBM and CAY in this discussion as they are really extensions of the Caribbean in many ways.

Trintocan.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: lucianflyboy
Posted 2012-07-25 15:06:00 and read 11910 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 97):
Is that really the reason that this flight is being done? What type of cargo is flown on those AA flights? What is flown by air to UVF in general?


Not sure about the incoming cargo but out going is quite busy. Fresh fish/seafood, tropical flowers, electronics (there's a huge electronic assembly plant in the South) different agricultural products

Quoting trintocan (Reply 98):
St Lucia is already very well promoted and deservedly so, it is indeed a very beautiful island with great scenery, fabulous beaches, rugged mountains and vibrant culture. Back in the 1980s and early 1990 LI flew from SLU (not UVF) to CCS, I also recall Viasa flying CCS - UVF some time before that. As of now, though, flights to South America largely operate to islands with cultural connections and / or geographical proximity, so think POS, SDQ, HAV, SJU, CUR and AUA. The Gol flights to BGI form perhaps the major exception to this rule. I am not including flights to GEO, PBM and CAY in this discussion as they are really extensions of the Caribbean in many ways

     


Every since the late Amy Winehouse set up shop, more exposure with the Jazz Festival and ABC's the Bachelor, the island's tourisum has taken off. St Lucia is now more recognized than just 20 years ago.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-25 15:12:39 and read 11910 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 96):

Actually StL is very well promoted in the USA. Almost every time there is any tourism promotion involving the caribbean St Lucia is one of those well featuredd. Travel Channel, reality shows, games shows, etc. Their new boutique high end hotels in the southern part of the island, their rain forest trails, etc are very well promoted. Every one must associate the Pitons with the Caribbean, as often as we see them...that being signature StL.

I question how much excess capacity there is ex MIA given that St L has very healthy arrivals from the USA. The drop in service was going to be for the low Sept/Nov period.

I question why subsidize daily airlift at this very low period when planes will be full again Thanksgiving thru Easter and again in the summer. And of coiurse they do very well with their Jazz Festival, much loved by aficionados throughout the USA. May is now one of the highest month into StL, even though it normally rivals October as being the worst month in other islands.

Jetblue is now running a daily JFK UVF flight which I havent heard is being subsidized.

The problem is that these island govts are sometimes too panicky. So Eagle is going. So what their loads have been dropping for years now, and are way down, given that AA offers little into SJU these days other than JFK/MIA which are easily accessable even in the smallest islands like GND and SKB. AA scares these islands too easily.

Last year StL got 120k US visitors, this being the second highest behind 2010 when they got 129k, I think that there was some huge promotion on a TV show that year. By comparison Antigua got 83k visitors from the USA.

In 2007, a very healthy year StL got 113k US visitors, so that we can see DESPITE the recession StL ha simproved their visitors. This compared with StK which is still off more than 20% in its US tourism from 2006 which was the best year.


They are also doing very well out of Canada, having dloubled their arrivals since 2007. The UK is down but then that is because of factors beyond their control. Ditto the Caribbean.

The problem that these small islands with limited budgets have is deciding whether to spend scarce resources on ensuring they keep, and grow their market share in tried and true markets like the USA, Canada, The UK and other Caribbean countries.

Or should they speculate on new markets in Latin America? The question ebing whether Brazilians will visit an island like StL, or focus instead on the more "fun" places like Aruba, St Maarten, etc where there is shopping, casinos, nightlife etc. One cant spend scarce dollars if the market cant support proper airlift. Will GOL fly to StL when even SXM couldnt keep them...SXM definitely having a profile in Latin Am. Will Brazilians be willing to change planes to get to StL when other beach oriented islands are more easily accessable?

I will suggest that big destinations like Jamaica and maybe Barbados should create the demand for travel to the English speaking Caribbean from places like Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina. they are large enough to attract the necessary airlift, and already have a high enough profile to easily interest these markets. I think that few educated people any where in the world will want to admit that they have never heard of Jamaica or The Bahamas. St Lucia, St Kitts, Grenada, even Antigua...whole other story.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: westindian425
Posted 2012-07-25 15:42:43 and read 11899 times.

Quoting lucianflyboy (Reply 99):
Every since the late Amy Winehouse set up shop, more exposure with the Jazz Festival and ABC's the Bachelor, the island's tourisum has taken off. St Lucia is now more recognized than just 20 years ago.

Back in the day, before the Butch Stewart JM days, people hardly knew about St. Lucia. It started being promoted as a good honeymoon place because it's so exotic (with the tropical rainforests, and mountainous terrain). Then Oprah put it on the map in the US and with the heavy Sandals promotion, St. Lucia's name was being spread. The annual Jazz festival and "The Bachelor" just made things so much better.

Quoting lucianflyboy (Reply 91):
Firstly, congrats on the 100th!!! Secondly, I am so happy for those forum because it keeps me in touch with what is going on in the region. I feel honored to by the only St Lucian!   

Slow your roll, buddy! LOL! My parents are from Soufriere!  
Quoting lucianflyboy (Reply 99):
Not sure about the incoming cargo but out going is quite busy. Fresh fish/seafood, tropical flowers, electronics (there's a huge electronic assembly plant in the South) different agricultural products

There's an electronics assembly plant? Where?! Nice!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 9YCAL
Posted 2012-07-25 17:59:22 and read 11869 times.

Congrats to us for making 100! Keep it going guys!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-07-25 18:21:49 and read 11851 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 96):
When is UVF going to have south american flights?

Pretty sure by now, UVF is learning from SXM and NAS how to invite CM to fly to the island.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-26 03:36:25 and read 11724 times.

Quoting trintocan (Reply 98):
St Lucia is already very well promoted and deservedly

Up north because here "down under" never heard of it, I actually visited the island because my cousin's aunt married a guy from trinidad who has a cousin from st lucia and told me about the island!

Quoting trintocan (Reply 98):
Viasa flying CCS - UVF some time before that.

Viasa was 5 star! I loved their service, too bad I was a child when they were gone, it's so sad to see current venezuela's aviation on the dumps.....

Quoting trintocan (Reply 98):
The Gol flights to BGI form perhaps the major exception to this rule.

It also was very surprising and unexpected! I wonder if any "insider" can say if G3 got any sort of "help" because my "insiders" at G3 told me they didn't keep SXM because GOVSXM was unwilling to "help", don't ask me what kind of "help" G3 wanted, my family visited SXM on this flight and it was always busy on both ways....

Quoting guyanam (Reply 100):
Or should they speculate on new markets in Latin America? The question ebing whether Brazilians will visit an island like StL, or focus instead on the more "fun" places like Aruba, St Maarten, etc where there is shopping, casinos, nightlife etc. One cant spend scarce dollars if the market cant support proper airlift. Will GOL fly to StL when even SXM couldnt keep them...SXM definitely having a profile in Latin Am. Will Brazilians be willing to change planes to get to StL when other beach oriented islands are more easily accessable?

Everyday's papers are always telling us how dangerous our country is these days, my city (Manaus) was chosen the "capital of fear" in Brazil.... so I believe people are starting to opt to go abroad, if a destination in the caribbean can promote itself as safe, fun and beautiful with good shopping I bet many brazilians could be attracted....

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 103):
Pretty sure by now, UVF is learning from SXM and NAS how to invite CM to fly to the island

CM is taking over the caribbean and Brazil, already flying to 7 cities here.... and more to come...

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-26 06:04:34 and read 11668 times.

Hey guys,

My first photo taken in BOG is in the database. See it in below link:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography




I have never seen such an over crowded airport such as BOG. I can definately see why the new terminal is urgently necessary. Even so, I am glad to have visited the current terminal being used in BOG.

Saludos,

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-07-26 06:33:37 and read 11637 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 90):

No worries, enjoy.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-07-26 09:57:02 and read 11553 times.

EZjet is using this a/c for GEO-YYZ nonstop twice a week.



GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-07-26 10:09:15 and read 11528 times.

How is the service of EZJet are the fa's locals ?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-07-26 10:23:11 and read 11526 times.

As far as I know it's a wet lease on both a/c. I have never flown them, from what I hear the service is good, it's the delays that causes unhappiness.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-26 14:46:19 and read 11392 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 104):

Yes Brazil now has the second largest middle class in the Americas, now ahead of Canada. Yes more Brazilians are traveling, and yes more of these do visit the Caribbean. The problem as I stated, for small islands like StL, with limited budgets, is do you spend money in Brazil and hope Brazilians come. Or do you spend money in the UK, Canada and the East Coast USA where you KNOW they will come, thanks to the excellent airlinks into UVF for these cities.

If SXM couldnt sustain GOL w/o a subsidy you bet StL won't sustain one even if they did subsidze. Let the heavy hitters in Caribbean tourism build brand awareness for Caribbean travel, beyond the casinos and duty free shopping of AUA,CUR and NAS, or culturally similar places like Cancun or the DR. If shopping is a huge draw few Caribbean islands qualify as costs are paossible higher than even Brazil.

BTW we too have growing issues with crime (usually not as bad as Brazil, but Jamaica, the DR, and The Bahamas might come close) so I suspect that most islands will be fearful of promoting themselves as "safe", in case a tourist is robbed, or worse yet murdered (some islands have had this problem).

With this will come lots of airlift from major Brazilian cities, and yes GOL will then speculate on service to places like UVF and ANU, even if they do so as an extension of flights to BGI, or a stop over to SXM (if that gets reinstated). I will suggest that the refusal of SXM to support G3 is because the route didnt show growth potential.

The only alternative, when CAL gets out of the quagmire, is if and when they strat service to GRU. T&T can generate some business traffic as well as a decent number of Trinis heading down to Rio and Salvador. So it will not totally rely on Brazilians. But that will only happen when CAL isnt quaking about paying their staff and fuel costs and lease expenses.

[Edited 2012-07-26 14:50:43]

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-07-26 17:41:22 and read 11321 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 110):
The only alternative, when CAL gets out of the quagmire, is if and when they strat service to GRU. T&T can generate some business traffic as well as a decent number of Trinis heading down to Rio and Salvador.

More often that I can remember, the subject BW to GRU has been brought here. Everytime there's some new issue showing up.
Fact is, GRU is slot restricted rightnow and BW flying overthere with arrival/departure between midnight and 0500h little would do for connections to/from other Brazilian and Southamerican cities. BW flying to VCP (SAO other international airport) at descent times may not be good for connections either; BW flying to GIG opens an interesting option as there might be some petrochemical business traffic possible between GIG and POS plus GIG may offer good connections to/from other Brazilian/South American cities.

If a Brazilian airline can't sustain direct flights to islands in the Caribbean and charters out of RIO or SAO are out of the question then not only BW flying to SAO or RIO one day is the only other realistic option, there's another option and it's called flying through CM's hub.
Only in Brazil CM hub sustains flights to 7 cities (maybe 2 more by years end), up to 10 per day (3 to GRU), so it'd be quite interesting to find out how many Brazilians are flying CM between Brazil and NAS/AUA/CUR/SXM/POS.
That would probably give UVF and BGI an idea how many Brazilians and perhaps other Southamericans may possible fly to their islands if CM is to open twice weekly services.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-07-26 19:44:00 and read 11289 times.

Saw this online what you guys think?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-26 22:28:32 and read 11232 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 112):

Pretty, but a Redjet ghost idea.... not goin' to happen by now....

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-07-27 03:27:41 and read 11161 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 112):

Well, I can only guess they are taking Embraers? Not sure if this would be a good move by them. Its not exactly a dash 8 replacement, but lets wait and see what they announce.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-07-27 05:11:28 and read 11134 times.

Lets hope its just a model and remains just that LI with jets is $$$$$ the governments in the region cant afford.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-07-27 06:41:08 and read 11108 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 110):
culturally similar places like Cancun

There is nothing "cultural" about CUN......sorry.

It is like a piece of South Florida stuck on the Yucatan

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-27 10:58:07 and read 11035 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 111):

This opens up an idea. When BW stabilizes they should enter a joint code with CM. That way they can gain from CMs highly developed PTY hub, and feed CM business thru their POS hub, this increasing access of countries in the SE Caribbean to the rest of Latin Am.

If the Brazilian market develops then they can do GIG. That city might actually be better as it cn be marketed as a leisure destination for Trinis, Bajans, maybe even Jamaicans, depending on if those flights can connect with BWs nonstop KIN POS flights. The joint code with CM will mean that the service will not have to operate during soft periods and for those who need a shorter than a week trip, they can fly out or return via PTY on a BW fare. Thats a better notion than one which was trotted out a few months ago of BW flying to PTY. It also addresses those who desire better connectivity between GEO/BGI/PBM and PTY. Who knows maybe with CMs Brazil clout BW can enter cities in NE Brazil and feed them thru to CM...assuming that CM doesnt already service that part of Brazil.


Rio is well known and it has attractied Caribbean visitors. When I went in th 80s the street vendors were well acquainted with Jamaicans and Trinidadians (non US black people with money which at the time black Brazilians didnt have....so I was told by them)

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 116):

Brazilians travel to MIA so your comparison doesnt negate what I said.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 113):

I was going to say the same thing. Where does LI plan to fly that Embraer and arent those planes more expensive to run than the turbos...hence Air Caraibes decision to dump them, and AAs decision not to use them on its Eagel routes as the need to retire its ATRs has become more criticl...deciding instead to just leave that market.


On a separate note Seaborne airlines, based in STX, seems poised to replace Eagle. It is beginning service on the SJU EIS route with Saabs. I can imagine that they might add other islands...SKB being a possibility...especially given that LI doesnt offer direct service from STX. Maybe a DOM option if LI refuses to do SJU DOM.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-27 14:21:19 and read 10976 times.

CAL and AJ brands pose confusion

By Vernon Khelawan Thursday, July 26 2012

NOTWITSTANDING the fact that a high level delegation of government officials, led by Trade, Industry and Invesement Minister Vasant Bharath flew to Kingston last week to discuss the latest travails of Caribbean Airlines Limited, (CAL) as it relates to the Jamaica operations, the issue of “one airline; two brands” remains technically unresolved.

Two weeks ago the issue reared its head when it was reported that CAL should not be using the Air Jamaica trademarks on its airplanes, since Air Jamaica’s AOC cancelled itself out when the merger was completed in May last year and CAL’s Trinidad AOC cannot be used for a Jamaican airline. To put it in a nutshell, the United States Department of Transportation (DOT) on February 10, 2011 granted permission to CAL “to conduct the operations to and from the United States that were being conducted by Air Jamaica Limited.” Now its counterpart agency the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is saying this could only be done if there is a codeshare agreement between both carriers.

The Bharath team included CAL Chairman Rabindra Moonan and acting Chief Executive Robert Corbie as well as Ramesh Lutchmedial, director general of the Trinidad and Tobago Civil Aviation Authority. Speaking to Business Day earlier this week, Minister Bharath, now the line minister of CAL, said he considered the discussions “fruitful” and added, “I think there is some significant value in the two brands”.

Coming out of the meeting Bharath said, was the decision to set up a working committee “to explore both brands as well as the viability of the existing Air Jamaica routes.” He added that there was no decision on the size, but he expected it to comprise four or five people from each country, including civil aviation and legal representatives as well as airline officials. No time frame was given for the activation of the committee. On February 10, 2011 the DOT granted CAL an exemption to permit the airline to conduct the operations to and from the US that were being conducted by Air Jamaica Ltd.

The DOT document states, “We found that this authority was warranted because, as noted in the record, Air Jamaica intended to cease services and the government of Jamaica had, under a Transitional Services Agreement , transferred Air Jamaica’s routes to CAL in order to facilitate a smooth transition of air services from Air Jamaica to CAL. We also found that CAL’s proposal to serve the United States from Jamaica and from New York to Grenada (currently operated by Air Jamaica) would facilitate a seamless transition from Air Jamaica to CAL, of the former carrier’s services and would minimise disruption to the travel plans of passengers and shippers.”

An authoritative source told Business Day, “That decision registered the Air Jamaica name to CAL (whose name CAL was already ‘registered’) for use with the qualifier “operated by Caribbean Airlines” to minimise confusion since the one airline, CAL, was being authorised to operate under two names: CAL for its own operations and Air Jamaica “operated by Caribbean Airlines” for the former Air Jamaica operations (routes) it had acquired under the DOT exemption authority under USC 40109.”

On the other hand, the FAA has taken the position that “CAL needs to own or have a code share deal with an entity with an AOC called Air Jamaica, which seems inconsistent with the DOT decision, which specifically registered the Air Jamaica name to CAL for its use specifically for the former Air Jamaica operations it had acquired as CAL, while continuing to use its own name (CAL) for the balance of its operations.”

The DOT document from Paul Gretch, director of International Aviation states, “Under the circumstances, we find that the public interest requires that CAL give consumers notice that Air Jamaica- branded services conducted after the Air Jamaica-CAL changeover, are in fact being operated by CAL of Trinidad and Tobago and not by the old Air Jamaica.

“To that end we hereby amend the exemption authority we granted on September 14, 2010 …to require that CAL continue its current practice (that it uses in the operations it now performs for Air Jamaica by wet lease) of identifying flights offered through its website(s) and in global distribution systems as ‘Air Jamaica/operated by Caribbean Airlines’,” added the document.

It can be seen therefore that this decision was made specifically to allow Caribbean Airlines to use both names, since both have been registered by the DOT for CAL’s use by decisions made within its jurisdiction on CAL’s application – CAL for CAL’s use in its own (TT) operations and Air Jamaica (as qualified) for its use in CAL’s operation of the former Air Jamaica operations under its own (CAL’s) authority.

Meanwhile Jamaica’s Minister of Finance and Public Service Audley Shaw answering a call from the Jamaica Gleaner for clarification on the use of Air Jamaica’s trademarks by Caribbean Airlines, said, “The essential provisions of that agreement are that Caribbean Airlines has the right to use – for an initial 12-month period those trademarks which are listed in an attachment to the agreement.

“At the end of the initial 12-month period, the right to continue using them is automatically renewed every year at a royalty amount of (US)$5 per year. It is important to not however, that the trade marks which Caribbean Airlines may use are restricted to those listed in the licence agreement. Although those which Caribbean Airlines may access do comprise the main Air Jamaica trademarks, not all are included. For example, Air Jamaica’s Seventh Heaven trade mark is not part of the agreement,” added Minister Shaw.

He said that while the licence gave CAL exclusive right to use the trademarks as stipulated, “Nonetheless, the government of Jamaica, as the licensor, retains the right to continue using the name in any of the ways in which it was being used prior to May 01, 2010 and, subject to Caribbean Airlines’ agreement, may also use the name in any other way which does not compete with the activities of the licensee (CAL).”

Minister Shaw, quoting from the agreement said, “The agreement can be terminated if Caribbean Airlines does not use the trademarks for six months.” He then listed five other conditions under which CAL’s right to use the Air Jamaica trademarks can be terminated -:

• Caribbean Airlines becomes bankrupt;

• The airline assigns or attempts to assign the rights to some other entity;

• The government of Trinidad and Tobago fails toown at least 50.1 percent of Caribbean Airlines;

• Caribbean Airlines fails to continue to run the Jamaica operations to the minimum service level outlined in the Shareholder Agreement; and

• Caribbean Airlines breaches any of the covenants and fails to correct the breach within 30 days.

“Importantly too,” added Shaw, “the trademarks can only be used in connection with the airline’s Jamaica operations relating to routes and frequency, fleet and crew, although Caribbean Airlines may make such changes or variations to the routes and frequency and/or to the fleet and crew stipulations as the airline believes are appropriate in order to achieve maximum profitability and the ultimate success of the Jamaican operations.”

The work of the committee, as revealed by Minister Bharath, would therefore have to deal with these matters in some way.

Source: http://www.newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,163895.html

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: b757lvr
Posted 2012-07-28 19:03:52 and read 10711 times.

Quoting westindian425 (Reply 101):



Happy 100th!! Hey guys another Lucian here checking in   Great to hear st.lucia keeping the daily mia-uvf. There was some uncertainty about the subsidy when the new govt took over, I guess they have reevaluated the the situation.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-29 18:25:23 and read 10470 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 117):
Brazilians travel to MIA so your comparison doesnt negate what I said.

But still there is nothing cultural about CUN as Yellowtail said. It's just a popular resort destination.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-30 07:13:44 and read 10317 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 120):

I am sure that you will admit that a Brazilian in Cancun will feel more culturally compatible than in BGI or MBJ, given that Spanish is closer to Portuguese then English is, and, especially in the case of Jamaica, one sometimes then has to consider that a highly nonstandard version of English is the norm, once one leaves the shelter of the hotels.

Fact is that Cancun attracts way more South Americans than does either MBJ or BGI, so that alone means that its brand is stronger.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-07-30 15:06:37 and read 10188 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 121):
I am sure that you will admit that a Brazilian in Cancun will feel more culturally compatible than in BGI or MBJ, given that Spanish is closer to Portuguese then English is, and, especially in the case of Jamaica, one sometimes then has to consider that a highly nonstandard version of English is the norm, once one leaves the shelter of the hotels.

Cancun is just a big resort destination, we all know it. Brazilians, just like all other tourists going to Cancun go there because they are looking for the sun, beach, resorts and casinos and night live. The fact that they speak spanish has nothing to do with their choice, it's just a plus. Besides this, if a country speaks spanish doesn´t qualify it as having anything cultural. There is just less of a language barrier, nothing more, nothing less.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-30 17:32:26 and read 10133 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 122):

The most important aspect of culture is language. Its not a coincidence that MIA and not ATL attracts many Latin tourists. Its also not a coincidence that Cancun attracts many Latin tourists and Jamaica doesnt. They have been trying this for years and in times past Lan Chile, and Avianca (and SAM) flew to Jamaica but loads werent enough. BGI has had similar disappointments.

It may also indicate that the ability to communicate with the locals is the most important trait that Brazilians look for. Not what ever Jamaica has to offer. Note that CUR and AUA are the most popular, and are the most Latinized islands that arent part of Latin America. If one knows Spanish or Portuguese one can figure out Papiamento. CUR does surprisingly well that Latin tourists, not just Venezuelans.

So if the attractions are beaches and resorts it might well be the ones where Spanish is spoken might be preferred over places where there is 100% use of English, and with that arrogance that English speakers have towards those not competent in that language.

Sometimes I think people over rate "culture" in terms of what tourist want. Cancun is way more popular than most Cbn destinations and one can argue that places like Punta Cana are almost as sterile vs other parts of the DR, yet the most popular. One can also argue that AUA is also quite sterile.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-31 04:09:19 and read 10022 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 121):
I am sure that you will admit that a Brazilian in Cancun will feel more culturally compatible than in BGI or MBJ, given that Spanish is closer to Portuguese then English is

  

Quoting A388 (Reply 122):
Brazilians, just like all other tourists going to Cancun go there because they are looking for the sun, beach, resorts and casinos and night live. The fact that they speak spanish has nothing to do with their choice

it depends, most of us can't really talk other language than portuguese, so SPANISH speaking countries are EASIER FOR SURE, and these days xenophobia in brazil is getin' high once again, so it's very common to see brazilians now refusing to study other languages or even to aid lost foreigners on the streets, I feel it's because we're receiving more and more immigrants and we can't even take care of our business you can imagine with a wave of asians/arabs/east europeans flooding inn, today my colleague at immigration refused the entry of 4 chinese and 1 panamenian, due suspicious of illegal working....

back to the main thing, I feel CUN is popular also due to the "latin things and behavior" that make us feel more comfortable than on a english oriented country...

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123):
It may also indicate that the ability to communicate with the locals is the most important trait that Brazilians look for.

  

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123):
with that arrogance that English speakers have towards those not competent in that language.

Agreed.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123):
Cancun is way more popular than most Cbn destinations

   because CUN can also be cheaper, try to book a hotel in GCM for less than 150 usd a day or to drink something for less than 10 usd, if you find it please let me know! LOL.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-07-31 06:17:08 and read 9982 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 123):
Cancun is way more popular than most Cbn destinations

How many flights a day does CM have to CUN vs HAV?

I don't deny CUN is popular, cause it is....even I go there.....but it is not cultural in any way...one can't count Chichen Itza which is closer to MID than CUN....even Xel-Ha etc are manufactured experiences.

For the most part in CUN, in the hotel zone, everyone is speaking english....CZM is a different story

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-07-31 06:58:41 and read 9977 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 125):
How many flights a day does CM have to CUN vs HAV?

CUN thrice daily vs HAV 5 per day?
CUN is almost pure leisure traffic, HAV only has a leisure traffic component and that's most likely because CM doesn't have dedicated service to VRA or other Cuban leisure hot-spots.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-07-31 09:25:38 and read 9977 times.

Former Caribbean Airlines CEO Ian Brunton is now CEO of LIAT
http://www.caribbeanpressreleases.co...Chief-Executive-Officer/Page1.html

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-07-31 09:56:30 and read 9961 times.

LIAT appoints Captain Ian Arthur Brunton as Chief Executive Officer

ST. JOHN’S, Antigua, July 31, 2012 – The Board of Directors of LIAT Airline today announced the appointment of Captain Ian Arthur Brunton as Chief Executive Officer (CEO) with effect from August 1, 2012.

Ian Brunton
Captain Brunton has had a long and distinguished career in aviation, serving in almost every aspect of the business. He began his career as a pilot in the Royal Air Force and flew a wide range of jets from military types to those operated by BWIA and Caribbean Airlines. As a pilot he was the Chairman of the Trinidad and Tobago Pilots’ Association.

Captain Brunton also held positions in the State’s Safety Oversight System, serving as the first chairman of the Trinidad and Tobago Civil Aviation Authority.

In 2006 he became Vice President Operations in BWIA West Indies Airways Limited and in 2007 Executive Vice President of Caribbean Airlines Limited.

In 2009 he was appointed Chief Executive Officer of Caribbean Airlines Limited.

Captain Brunton is a qualified Attorney-at-Law and holds both Bachelor and Master of Laws degrees from the University of London. He is a member of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators and a Certified Mediator.

Captain Brunton takes over from Mrs. Julie Reifer-Jones who has been Acting CEO since the departure of Mr. Brian Challenger who resigned from the post on June 30, 2012.

http://www.liat.com/navSource.html?page_id=657

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-07-31 10:56:46 and read 9929 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127):

Oh well CAL lost out. Who will be CALs new CEO, Kamla's auntie, or her nurse? What things for sure and that it will not be any one who has a clue about Caribbean aviation.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-07-31 11:04:04 and read 9921 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127):
Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 128):

WOW? couldn't see that coming!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BWIA 772
Posted 2012-07-31 15:10:33 and read 9851 times.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 128):

Excellent move by LI BoD hopefully Brunton can put LI on a firm footing and help the airline move forward. The next couple of months shall be interesting.


Regards
BWIA 772

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: jmbweeboy
Posted 2012-07-31 17:27:47 and read 9806 times.

Fort-Lauderdale to San Juan, anyone notice the battle going on between Spirit and newer discount entrants Jet Blue and Airtran !

Just booked for $117.10 USD r.t. FLL to SJU for September with all taxes included. Insane low price! Of course booked Jet Blue with the free bag and free seat assignments. Apparently fare is valid till end of October with 14 days advance purchase.

This kind of battle and pricing can't go on forever. Any guesses from the members who might vacate this route first, Spirit, Jet Blue, or Airtran ?

JMBWEEBOY

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-07-31 18:34:54 and read 9766 times.

Conviasa just bought 20 E190s....so I would suspect some Caribbean routes might be in the works.....

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-08-01 06:16:17 and read 9652 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 133):
Conviasa just bought 20 E190s....so I would suspect some Caribbean routes might be in the works.....


Guesses anyone?

Mine CCS-AUA VLN-AUA
CCS-CUR VLN-CUR
CCS-PTY
CCS-POS
CCS-SXM
CCS-PUJ
CCS-HAV
CCS-SJO

Unlikely but we never know:

CCS-UVF
CCS-BGI
CCS-CTG

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-01 09:23:36 and read 9588 times.

Again as I said CUN is very popular and the spanish language is a plus for South Americans but this has nothing to do with culture. It's just less of a languagge barrier. On a sidenote, some times the crew of the GOL flights to Curacao don't even speak Spanish.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-08-01 09:36:50 and read 9583 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 135):
On a sidenote, some times the crew of the GOL flights to Curacao don't even speak Spanish.

Have known many a far east crew flying to the USA whose english was basically limited to words like runway and left. And I am being generous.

The is a very funny clip on you tube of an exchange between JFK tower and a CHina Airlines 744....

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-01 10:24:21 and read 9563 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 135):

Sorry as far as most people are concerned language is an important part of culture. If one cannot communicate, nor get a sense as to what is going on around one might begin to feel some what "strange". Especially if the locals are Anglophones who think that an inability to speak fluent English is a sign of mental retardation.

This is why more Brazilians go to CUR vs SXM. CUR with its papiamento creates a more familiar environment than SXM where English is spoken, and increasingly French, but one will have to hunt for some one who speaks fluent Spanish...and of course almost no one speaks Portuguese.

In any cas e the one Brazilian here offered his opinion on Cancun, and it wasnt just the resorts or the casinos, but the sense of comfort in a familiar language. So while Jamaica and Barbados and the Bahamas should and can attract their share of Brazilians and other South Americans its very unlikely that they will ever be as popular as Cancun, Punta Cana, or Aruba, despite the cultural barreness of those destinations...The fact is while Spanish and Portuguese are distinct languages there are sufficient similarities between the two for one to get by even if ignorant. Especially in the written form.

[Edited 2012-08-01 10:29:27]

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BW424
Posted 2012-08-01 16:55:55 and read 9485 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 33):
BW424, do you have the load factors for the DAE MIA flights? I wonder how that's going.

Sorry for not being on for so long. Been very busy of late. DAE's loads are in the high 80's with their daily flight. No wonder they are increasing it to 10x weekly.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 47):
I hope that they can get someone who can help the airline turn around and meet its potential. The same goes for BW.

Half your wish granted!

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 128):

Congrats to LI. The international leverage Brunton will bring to the airline will certainly make LI a formidable force!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: turk223
Posted 2012-08-01 18:02:46 and read 9464 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 134):
Unlikely but we never know:

CCS-UVF
CCS-BGI
CCS-CTG

Man, that would be nice... been years since we had a direct connection to Caracas from B'dos.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-01 19:03:31 and read 9444 times.

As others have said, CUN is all about resorts, resorts and more resorts. There is nothing cultural about that.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: westindian425
Posted 2012-08-01 21:33:34 and read 9407 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 129):
Oh well CAL lost out. Who will be CALs new CEO, Kamla's auntie, or her nurse? What things for sure and that it will not be any one who has a clue about Caribbean aviation.

LMBO!!!! I needed that laugh!!!

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 127):
Former Caribbean Airlines CEO Ian Brunton is now CEO of LIAT

This is amazing news! I am very happy for LIAT.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-02 08:52:08 and read 9292 times.

I agree with andrefranca, I also see Conviasa start flights to Curacao. Those Conviasa ERJ190's will be one of the best looking ones around!!!

Regarding LIAT and the ERJ190, I also think it will be a bad move if they chose them when looking at their current route network but if they have other expansion plans we don't know of then who knows, it might work for them. One thing is sure, I welcome their ERJ190 in Curacao 

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-08-02 13:59:47 and read 9201 times.

New planes for LIAT – but how?

AT a meeting two weeks ago in Barbados it was reported that a unanimous decision was made that LIAT needed to acquire newer aircraft to replace its current 18-plane Dash-8 fleet, which are all bordering on 20-plus years. Making that announcement following the meeting of the three major shareholders, was Dr Ralph Gonsalves, prime minister of St Vincent and the Grenadines. Also present at the meeting were Antigua and Barbuda’s Prime Minister Baldwin Spencer and host Prime Minister Freundel Stuart, together with airline officials and smaller shareholders.

According to Gonsalves, a decision had been reached as to the type of aircraft that would be bought, but he refused to identify the aircraft type because as he said, “It would be inappropriate at this stage before discussions with the manufacturer.” He said there were several reasons why the group did not wish to declare at this time, the aircraft type selected.

But a later company release stated that following recommendations from the company’s board of directors and its management, the three prime ministers decided to defer the decision on other aircraft types, to allow certain matters to be explored. Further, the release added that the airline expected that negotiations would commence immediately and proceed swiftly and soon thereafter a formal announcement would be made.

See full article: http://newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,164220.html

Food for thought really. The press release sent out by LI does seem a little shady and hints at the possibility of another type sometime in the future. Whether or not that will manifest itself is another story.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-02 14:59:23 and read 9157 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 140):

why not check out the response by the Brazilian. he agreed with me. Given that we are speaking about Brazilians one would think that his opinion would carry more weight. Its not resorts, resorts, resorts as Jamaica has loads of them, yet attarcts almost no Brazilians, despite being a little nearer.

Brazilians feel more comfortable where Spanish is spoken due to its relationship to Portugese is so its not the resorts that the issue. Jamaica and The Bahamas have loads. Its the CULTURAL ability of Brazilians to better communicate with Mexicans than with Jcans, Bajans or Bahamians.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: trintocan
Posted 2012-08-02 15:37:31 and read 9151 times.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 131):
Excellent move by LI BoD hopefully Brunton can put LI on a firm footing and help the airline move forward. The next couple of months shall be interesting.

Yes indeed, Captain Brunton has a wealth of experience in Caribbean aviation and will certainly be a positive driving force for LI. Congrats to him and to LI and all the best in their endeavours together. The road ahead may still be rough but together the airline should eventually turn around.

Quoting turk223 (Reply 139):

Man, that would be nice... been years since we had a direct connection to Caracas from B'dos.

I would say that the last time was in the mid 1990s when LI flew the route.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 133):

Conviasa just bought 20 E190s....so I would suspect some Caribbean routes might be in the works.....

Hopefully that will be the start of a turn-around in the fortunes of Venezuelan aviation which has been in the Doldrums for too long.

Trintocan.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-02 17:47:25 and read 9092 times.

Brazilians feel more comfortable where Spanish is spoken, yes. I never denied that. What isn´t true is CUN being cultural as you said. As I have stated hundreds of times, CUN is popular for resorts, resorts, resorts, and yes, more resorts. There is nothing cultural about that. It´s just the language that makes it easier for Brazilians to decide on which resort destination to chose. It has nothing to do with cultuire. As I have said before, some Brazilians also don´t even speak Spanish.

Now let´s drop this discussion and move on.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: baje427
Posted 2012-08-02 19:26:50 and read 9055 times.

Just fyi BGI will be closed from midnight due to Tropical storm Ernesto just curious will AA fly out their aircraft tonight or will it stay on the ramp?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-08-02 19:34:11 and read 9049 times.

LIAT cancelling the follow flights tomorrow due to Tropical storm Ernesto more info below:

Tropical Storm Ernesto – Advisory # 1

ISSUED AT 7:30PM – AUGUST 02, 2012

ST. JOHN’S, Antigua – LIAT wishes to advise that due to the impending passage of a Tropical Storm Ernesto, it has been forced to cancel the following services for tomorrow Friday, August 03, 2012:

LI 361 – Dominica/Barbados
LI 758 – St. Vincent/Barbados
LI 721 – Barbados/St. Lucia/St. Vincent/Trinidad
LI 370 – Barbados/St. Lucia/Martinique
LI 371 – Martinique/Barbados
LI 754 – Barbados/Dominica
LI 771 – Antigua/St. Lucia/Barbados/Grenada
LI 310 – Trinidad/St. Vincent/St. Lucia
LI 704 – Grenada/Barbados
LI 760 – St. Vincent/Barbados
LI 761 – Barbados/St. Vincent
LI 332 – Trinidad/St. Vincent/Barbados

LI 774 (Guyana to Barbados) has been re-timed to depart Guyana at 8:30am tomorrow.

The Barbados authorities have advised that the Grantley Adams International Airport will be closed at midnight tonight for a possible 10:00 am reopening tomorrow, August 03, 2012. Additionally the St. Vincent authorities have also advised that the E. T. Joshua International Airport will be closed from 11:00 pm tonight for a possible 4:00 pm reopening tomorrow. In light of this, there could be further disruptions to LIAT’s schedule tomorrow. Any additional affected flights will be published in a subsequent advisory.

Passengers travelling tomorrow are asked to check the LIAT website, the LIAT Facebook Page, their local LIAT office, or to call the LIAT Call Centre from Antigua – 1-268-480-5582; toll free from the rest of the Caribbean – 1-888-844-5428 and from Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands – 1-866-549-5428 for information on the status of their flights.

Customers affected by the disruptions who wish to rebook for a later date will be allowed to do so without change fees or fare differences for a period of one week from the date of their original scheduled travel. Following the one-week grace period, passengers will be required to pay applicable fare and change fees when re-booking.

LIAT also wishes to advise that passengers who decide to travel but are unable to complete their journey due to disruption caused by weather conditions, will not be provided with meals, transportation, hotel accommodation etc. Passengers with onward connections are advised to contact the respective carriers.

LIAT regrets any inconvenience caused as a result of the passage of the storm.

Passengers are advised to continue monitoring radio stations for further updates. Passengers who are affected by the cancelled flights are strongly advised to continue to monitor the media for any possibility of LIAT re-instating the flights in the event there is a change in the weather condition.

=END=

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-08-02 19:39:06 and read 9045 times.

Caribbean Airlines Just put an advisory for affected flights for tomorrow as well, via facebook:

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-03 04:20:15 and read 8959 times.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 143):

I would like to know which type they are going for.

Ezjet passengers complain of continued delays
"Passengers flying Ezjet Airlines continue to complain about the constant delays of flights in and out of Guyana.
The most recent case was Monday evening when a flight scheduled to take off New York to Georgetown at 10:45 PM took off until 2:45AM Tuesday."
http://www.inewsgy.com/?p=27367
A 14 hr delay? I have heard of problems at the airline

EZjet makes inaugural Guyana -Toronto flight
"EZjet Air Services Incorporated inaugural flight to Toronto, Canada, took off Tuesday afternoon from the Cheddi Jagan International Airport (CJIA) with some 98 passengers.The flight was launched after a formal ceremony in the airport’s executive lounge. The Boeing 767-200 series aircraft has 218 seats. A return ticket to Canada costs US$650, while a one way ticket costs US$375."
http://www.guyanatimesinternational.com/?p=18656

Suriname Airways eyeing a return to French Guyana
"Suriname Airways is eying a return to French Guiana but officials of the local airline said that they want guarantees from the French authorities that the service would not halted arbitrarily as had been the case a few years ago.
We learnt our lessons,” said Suriname Airways manager, Ewald Henshuys, who confirmed that talks have already started with the authorities in the French country."
http://www.antiguaobserver.com/?p=78091

Caribbean Airlines should be taking delivery of their 3rd ATR on Sunday, 9Y-TTC. The 767-300 are expected to be in Trinidad by August 20th.
There is talk that CAL is looking at placing a order for narrow bodies in the next few months to replace the soon to aging 737NG. Talk around said its for the 737MAX and will likely feature new ptvs and such.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-08-03 05:04:06 and read 8944 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 150):
Caribbean Airlines should be taking delivery of their 3rd ATR on Sunday, 9Y-TTC. The 767-300 are expected to be in Trinidad by August 20th.
There is talk that CAL is looking at placing a order for narrow bodies in the next few months to replace the soon to aging 737NG. Talk around said its for the 737MAX and will likely feature new ptvs and such.

Well, at least thats some positive news for CAL, the MAX should be a good choice for their ops to JFK and YYZ to reduce any weight restictions and the ptvs, I would say its about time they thought of that, but thats still years away I guess.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-03 06:20:44 and read 8923 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 151):

Better fuel economy also. I guess at least another 5-6 years or more before these come into service. Good choice IMHO.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-03 09:24:03 and read 8862 times.

I wonder where Caribbean Airlines will get the money buy or lease these 737MAX aircraft. They couldn't even take all the ATR72's they ordered and we all wonder how the London route will perform. The 737-800 isn't an old aircraft in any way. It can easily be used for another 5-7 years. They don't even need to think of replacing them.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-08-03 09:46:52 and read 8836 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 153):
I wonder where Caribbean Airlines will get the money buy or lease these 737MAX aircraft. They couldn't even take all the ATR72's they ordered and we all wonder how the London route will perform. The 737-800 isn't an old aircraft in any way. It can easily be used for another 5-7 years. They don't even need to think of replacing them.

A388

I actually wondered this as well, while they do have financial problems they can always secure the aircraft by other means like leasing via a leasing company. Also the MAX wont be in service till around 2017 and im sure thats enough time for CAL to turn things around (if they ever do that is). Even though the current 737s arent that old, their oldest aircraft is pushing about 13 years at the moment and would be roughly 20+ years when the MAX enters service, so therefore a reasonable time to replace them. Plus I think it would be better to reserve slots now whether with Boeing directly or via leasing Company than later.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-03 10:04:37 and read 8828 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 153):
I wonder where Caribbean Airlines will get the money buy or lease these 737MAX aircraft. They couldn't even take all the ATR72's they ordered and we all wonder how the London route will perform. The 737-800 isn't an old in any way. It can easily be used for another 5-7 years. They don't even need to think of replacing them.

Its more about future fleet planning than anything else and CAL seems more interested in keeping its fleet relatively young.
The situation with the ATRs was because of a poorly managed board by one political supporter who has no idea of management.

It would most likely be leased from the ILFC since BWIA/CAL has a solid relationship with them or ALC. Securing leased aircrafts are better and cheaper for smaller airlines and upstarts. The current 737NG are going to be 13 years by the end of the years, the MAX will be available from 2017 which will make the fleet around 18 years at the time of delivery.

As for LGW is have no info for the yields on the routes but they have been able to maintain an 80% load for the summer thus far, how it performs in the fall is anybody's guess.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-08-03 11:14:39 and read 8806 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 150):
Caribbean Airlines should be taking delivery of their 3rd ATR on Sunday, 9Y-TTC. The 767-300 are expected to be in Trinidad by August 20th.

That's good news CAL is finally taking more ATR's. Are they taking them one per month perhaps? Any idea as to when the Dash 8's will be leaving the fleet? Last time i peeped into CAL's hangar I recall seeing one in there painted all white.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 150):
There is talk that CAL is looking at placing a order for narrow bodies in the next few months to replace the soon to aging 737NG. Talk around said its for the 737MAX and will likely feature new ptvs and such.

Well this is certainly forward thinking. The 737's still have quite a bit of good life left in them, but one still have to look into the future with these things. Sadly, this is where LI failed. LI should have started planning their refleeting exercise at least 3-5 years ago to begin taking deliveries now.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-03 11:39:31 and read 8779 times.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 156):
Are they taking them one per month perhaps? Any idea as to when the Dash 8's will be leaving the fleet? Last time i peeped into CAL's hangar I recall seeing one in there painted all white.

Not sure when, last year the plan was to phase them out one by one beginning on the 3rd ATR delivery, so I believe that is what is happening.
It will be interesting to see where they go, whether they are sold to scrap or to a new operator.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 156):
Well this is certainly forward thinking. The 737's still have quite a bit of good life left in them, but one still have to look into the future with these things.

I agree, the 737 have lots to legs in them still, however, by 2017-2019 they will be up in age.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-03 11:57:54 and read 8773 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 146):

I said for CULTURAL reasons, which was defined to state that language was a major factor. That was not about whether Cancun has or has not a rich indigenous culture...it clearly doesnt which is why I will never go. My original statement was about why Brazilians chose some Caribbean destinations (DR,Cancun and AUA/CUR) and not others (MBJ,NAS,BGI). The first are more cultuirally compatible for language reasons than the latter. A monolingual Brazilians will have an easier time in a Spanish spesaking country, than they will in an English speaking one, especially given the tendency of anglophone monolinguals (which most of us are) to have no respect for non English speakers.


Quoting A388 (Reply 153):

CALs original 737s were bought straight from the factory in 2000 so are 12 years old. The more recently leased aircraft might be older. In any its probably about time to look at retooling given that it will be several years before these planes arrive....financing, etc.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 155):

Maybe by ealy next year they can increase frequencies, once the fiasco of the ex minister anouncing that the route will be axed if it doesnt perform is forgotten. The nonstop feature, plus connections from GEO, might allow a 3rd frequency. I can well imagine that with ahigher frequency at 3X it begins to look more competitive against BA with its UVF stop. As of now BW provides the only same airline service LON-GEO so it should be popular with Guyana bound passengers, especially as there seems to be some eco/adventure tourism developing out of the UK to GEO.

The question will be what will be done about the 767s given that there will be at least 8X/week rotations avialble with their 2 planes. Will this be to YYZ and/or JFK replacing Omni on the JFK GEO nonstop?

Ezjet looks like it will be around, despite its scheduling problems, and they wil completely push BW out of the YYZ GEO market, unless they respond with a nonstop. POS is frequently criticized as a huge pain for intransits and there is the issue of duty free purchases at GEO being seized by the authorities at POS as passengers intransit to YYZ. Guyanese love their 20 year rum and EZjet will benefit with its nonstop. This all depends on how valuable to CAL the YYZ GEO market is, because a nonstop flight will push them out if they dont respond.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BE77
Posted 2012-08-03 12:52:58 and read 8754 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 158):
CALs original 737s were bought straight from the factory in 2000 so are 12 years old. The more recently leased aircraft might be older.

As I recall, BW had new deliveries last year, just day or two before the demise of 9Y-PBM. I recall seeing the flights on flight tracker, direct Boeing to POS (!).

Quoting guyanam (Reply 158):
POS is frequently criticized as a huge pain for intransits

Concur!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-08-03 12:59:28 and read 8753 times.

Quoting BE77 (Reply 159):
As I recall, BW had new deliveries last year, just day or two before the demise of 9Y-PBM. I recall seeing the flights on flight tracker, direct Boeing to POS (!).

Thats correct, 9Y-SXM was delivered last year direct from Boeing, I think its still without full livery. Also from what I remember most of the newer leased aircraft are newer than the original 738 fleet.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BE77
Posted 2012-08-03 13:16:47 and read 8727 times.

Quoting BE77 (Reply 159):
the demise of 9Y-PBM.

Speaking of which - it's now been a year (already!)...any rumours about when we might see some official reports?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-03 14:13:26 and read 8713 times.

Airport Development Project
Madam Speaker, as you and the Honorable Members of this House are aware; the Government has decided to extend the runway at the Terrence B. Lettsome International Airport as well as concurrent improvement/upgrade of the aircraft parking apron, the Passenger Terminal Building and adjacent development of an intermodal transportation facility which includes upgrade to the existing family islands cargo and passenger Ferry dock and private parking in this area.
http://bvinews.com/bvi/update-airport-development-project/

Quoting guyanam (Reply 158):
Ezjet looks like it will be around, despite its scheduling problems, and they wil completely push BW out of the YYZ GEO market, unless they respond with a nonstop

I'm not sure how they will push out CAL on a route the airline does not even operate directly nor market. Most times YYZ pax connect from YYZ-JFK-GEO most from DL and then others to CAL. The pax numbers show that of all pax CAL POS-YYZ 85% are O/D to and from POS, 10% from GND and the rest are shared between TAB, GEO and PBM.
CAL has said and continues to say they will not operate the route nonstop because of the low yields and low pax count year round.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 158):
Maybe by ealy next year they can increase frequencies, once the fiasco of the ex minister anouncing that the route will be axed if it doesnt perform is forgotten. The nonstop feature, plus connections from GEO, might allow a 3rd frequency.

The most stupid statement made by a minister of Transportation, glad he is out. Well there are talks going around but I wish not to say at this time.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 158):
The question will be what will be done about the 767s given that there will be at least 8X/week rotations avialble with their 2 planes. Will this be to YYZ and/or JFK replacing Omni on the JFK GEO nonstop?

Man that is a question I would also like to know, maybe they will run it to YYZ and position some to GEO-JFK, it would be better instead of leasing Omni aircrafts.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-03 15:01:43 and read 8694 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 162):

I keep hearing that EZjet is having a hard time, lots of their pax are jumping ship, but let's see, they seem to have someone keeping them afloat.

I don't see any scheduling on 526/527 after 9/31, but let's see. I am hoping that BW start using their 763's to replace Omni.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-08-03 15:14:01 and read 8673 times.

Now see if this occured in Central America we would say that would have Parrot Cartel (TA) written all over it 

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-03 19:00:51 and read 8637 times.

I know it's about future planning but my worries are about Caribbean Airlines being able to finance these MAX aircraft. We are not talking about the Caribbean Airlines of the good days. I can imagine ILFC or any other leasing company wanting to see a healthier balance sheet first.

In any case I do welcome them ordering the MAX of course, it is very good forward thinking.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-08-04 11:14:14 and read 8470 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 162):
Madam Speaker, as you and the Honorable Members of this House are aware; the Government has decided to extend the runway at the Terrence B. Lettsome International Airport as well as concurrent improvement/upgrade of the aircraft parking apron, the Passenger Terminal Building and adjacent development of an intermodal transportation facility which includes upgrade to the existing family islands cargo and passenger Ferry dock and private parking in this area.
http://bvinews.com/bvi/update-airpor...ject/

It is about time! when I visited EIS last year I felt it was a "shanty bungalow " about to fall apart.... there are only 2 counters on immigration so half of pax stay OUT of the terminal burning on the 32C sun LOL.... and then you have that feeling that you're being forgotten in the middle of nowhere, only airports like EIS DOM EUX make me feel that way 

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-06 13:23:47 and read 8117 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 162):

I question your analysis that the YYZ GEO market is this tiny unprofitable route. That might have nbeen so 10 years ago but hardly now.

1 GEo received 25k viistors in 2010 from Canada while POS received 47k. GND a scant 7k. SOURCE:CTO.

2. The Guyanese population in the YYZ area is the second largest Cbn one behind Jcans and ahead of T&T. Not only does the market exist but BW does NOT have to market it to. They merely need to take orders. They run the only same plane service and Guyanese are well aware of this service. I do see CAL better promoted within the Guyanese VFR market in YYZ than they are in NYC so I dont know what you mean when you say they dont market this route.

3. DL charges high fares JFK GEO, so why will the fares ex YYZ be low yield? I suspect these fares must be higher than BW on its DIRECT YYZ GEO route.

4. YYZ passengers have to deal with JFK, which is a huge hassle on the return where they must deal with US customs and immigration.

5. The YYZ JFK is most likely some commuter plane and so Guyanese traveling home with as much a sthey can carry will not have an easy time.


6. BW runs the 661 daily to connect with its red eyes flight ex YYZ to POS. Why if according to you there is almost no one on this flight? The 425 runs daily an hour later and almost always has seats available.

7. Indeed with the 527 the JFK GEO route has become low yield as BW tries to maintain market share. Not only that but its high cost with a wet leased OMNI jet and a possible need to use two crews..it leaves JFK at just before 10am and doesnt get back until just before 6AM next day.

8. Canada based Guyanese are the biggest gripers about POS intransits. If they felt that they had an alternative they would use it, not hope for an alternative...so clearly many indeed use BW on the YYZ GEO.

I suspect that some of those POS O&D numbers are actually destined to GEO, because not too long ago it was reported that YYZ and JFK are profitable routes ex GEO.


If yo are correct its not that CAL refuses to service the GEO YYZ route. Its that CAL HAS LOST THE YYZ GEO MARKET BECAUSE OF PIARCO.......and now wishes to paint the market as a bad one. .

Who ever is teling you this is probably not even looking properly at CALs own data and is not current with the dynamics of the GEO market.

What is definitely a lie is any pretence that GND YYZ is a better market than GEO YYZ, with its much smaller VFR market, and with Canadian gold and other natural resource companies all over Guyana, giving it some business traffic. Canadian leisure travelers are the most price sensitive and also loyal to their carriers So I am 90% sure that BW doesnt have or want this segment.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-08-06 13:27:23 and read 8132 times.

According to the link below, it seems 2 of the 4 ATR's up for sale by CAL has found a new home. They are off to Intersky in Germany.

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/new...-for-regional-expansion-in-germany

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-06 13:49:20 and read 8106 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 162):
Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):

Irfaan Ali (Minister of Tourism (Ag.)) reported that Guyana gets 50,000 pax YYZ-GEO. I would not rely on his words.

http://www.ncnguyana.com/ncngy/index...troduces-non-stop-flight-to-canada

In this article it says that BW is looking to start the YYZ-GEO nonstop.

http://www.ncnguyana.com/ncngy/index...-at-flights-to-region-9-and-brazil

IMO NCN is not a reliable source of info, but I put this here in case someone at BW in the know can verify these articles.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-08-07 07:45:35 and read 7898 times.

Quote:
New planes for LIAT – but how?
By Vernon Khelawan Thursday, August 2 2012

AT a meeting two weeks ago in Barbados it was reported that a unanimous decision was made that LIAT needed to acquire newer aircraft to replace its current 18-plane Dash-8 fleet, which are all bordering on 20-plus years. Making that announcement following the meeting of the three major shareholders, was Dr Ralph Gonsalves, prime minister of St Vincent and the Grenadines. Also present at the meeting were Antigua and Barbuda’s Prime Minister Baldwin Spencer and host Prime Minister Freundel Stuart, together with airline officials and smaller shareholders.

According to Gonsalves, a decision had been reached as to the type of aircraft that would be bought, but he refused to identify the aircraft type because as he said, “It would be inappropriate at this stage before discussions with the manufacturer.” He said there were several reasons why the group did not wish to declare at this time, the aircraft type selected.

But a later company release stated that following recommendations from the company’s board of directors and its management, the three prime ministers decided to defer the decision on other aircraft types, to allow certain matters to be explored. Further, the release added that the airline expected that negotiations would commence immediately and proceed swiftly and soon thereafter a formal announcement would be made.

There are two things that are confusing in the various statements – first an aircraft type has been unanimously decided upon – and later, to defer the decision of other aircraft types to allow certain matters to be explored.

If a decision was made as to a specific aircraft type, then why are talks being held about other aircraft types? While it might be considered a strategic move to refrain from publicly revealing the aircraft type chosen, the decision on secrecy has given rise to great speculation and bloggers are having a field day.

There is talk that the airline was now considering larger airplanes including regional jets or larger turbo props like Bombardier’s Dash-8, 70-seat Q-400 or the ATR-72-600, similar to those recently bought by Caribbean Airlines for its airbridge and regional services. Airline officials have already held meetings with representatives of Montreal-based Bombardier, French manufacturer Avions Transporte de Regionale (ATR) and Brazil’s Embraer company.

According to press reports Chairman Jean Holder said, the fleet renewal exercise would begin with the replacement of seven aircraft at an estimated cost of (US)$50 million. However if the preferred aircraft is either the Dash-8 or the ATR and LIAT is talking new 70-seat aircraft, the cost of a single plane is close to (US)$20 million, which means that the estimated (US)$50 million can only buy about three planes.

If the decision is to stick with the Dash-8-300 which the airline now operates, the cost would be less, but still would not be able to accommodate the acquisition of seven aircraft. Moreover, it has been reported that Bombardier’s Q-400 production has been sold out for the next few years and it is unlikely that the position at ATR is any different.

So it would seem therefore that if the decision is to spend only (US)$50 million on aircraft, then the focus would be on used aircraft, but not as old as the ones the airline is currently operating. That is LIAT would be replacing very old planes with not so old aircraft. Then there is the major question of funding for the acquisition of these aircraft. Current owners of LIAT cannot afford the kind of money needed for the re-fleeting exercise, because the owner-governments are themselves strapped for cash and even collectively would have a serious problem raising the money, even on a guaranteed basis in the bond market.

Compounding the airline’s money woes was the recent disastrous fire which destroyed office buildings, aircraft maintenance equipment and an entire aircraft at LIAT’s headquarters at the VC Bird International Airport in Antigua. Following that devastation with losses originally estimated at $60 million, Chairman Holder admitted that some components of the lost assets were under insured, which had increased the size of the losses.

One Caribbean aviation observer told Business Day that a new fleet exercise could end up costing the airline close to half billion US dollars and at this time there was no way LIAT’s present route structure and declining passenger volumes could conceivably support the cost on a lease or debt-financed basis.

He suggested that there was need to restructure the airline as in its present form it had too many inefficiencies and liabilities and he reminded of the (US)$60 million loan from the Barbados-based Caribbean Development Bank (CDB) which enabled the airline to buy out some assets of Caribbean Star and Caribbean Sun which were absorbed into LIAT.

Although it has not even been hinted, it would seem maybe that the shareholders might be looking at a facility from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) through its International Finance Corporation (IFC) which has programmes to fund regionalisation initiatives with the goal of private or joint public-private ownership.

Source: http://www.newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,164220.html

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-07 08:07:18 and read 7878 times.

So LIAT will chose between the Dash-8-Q400, ATR NextGen and the ERJ or go for secondhand Dash-8's. My gut feeling says that they will go for secondhand Dash-8's, the Q300 series. I don't know where they can get those second hand but I can only think of Europe as most Q300 operators are there. The problem, they will have to pay for them in euros which is very expensive. The good part: They will be receiving well maintained Q300's  

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-07 12:09:58 and read 7792 times.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 169):

CTO reports that approx 25k visitors from Canada go to Guyana. Over 90% of these will be VFR visitors, and most of the rest will be on business. There is now quite a bit of resource activity by Canadian companies in gold, manganese, uranium and otrher mineral areas.

What is laughable is the nonsense of 50K visitors. The VFR market isnt growing and Guyana has yet to develp an eco/adventure tourist industry based on visits by non Guyanese. In his speech this Minister (who makes those in T&T look brilliant) opines that Guyana will "dominate" tourism out of Cda into the Cbn. Clearly he has no idea of the large numbers of Canadians who visit Cuba, DR and Jamaica, and the fact that Bdos and even StL get decent numbers as well. The PPP of Guyana makes the UNC govt of T&T look quite competent.

As to the notion of CAL running flights to Brazil from Guyana. More nonsense. Firstly the market isnt there to support a 68 seater. And secondly with BW scaling back on its ATR orders, there is no room for speculative routes when the planes will be well used on the TAB airbridge and on its routes to CCS,BGI, and to GND and SLU, if they retain them.

As to YYZ GEO, quite likely for the reasons that I mentioned. BW is the only serious airline flying the YYZ GEO route. Whereas as Trinis can use AA via MIA, if they dont want to pay BWs higher fares, Guyanese lack that option. So BW must generate decent business on this route. Just as BW sought to protect its JFK GEO marketshare, even though cutting yields, and maybe even incurring losses, maybe they are thinking of the same, at least during high periods lie Xmas, Easter and the Summer.

Those who claim that the YYZ GEO route is unprofitable must be living in an era long gone when Air Transat ran that route, With thelargest population of Eastern Caribbean people in the YYZ area the YYZ GEO route provides decent market opportunities, especially as AC and West Jet have no interest in that route. And neither does AA plane service to GEO so there isnt even the backdoor via MIA for those loking to pay lower fares.

Quoting A388 (Reply 171):

With the older LIAT planes now costing loads to maintain LI needs to immediately update its fleet. It however lacks the cash, the island govts are all broke and I doubt any lender will provide the financing that LI will need to re equip with new planes. So if less old Dash 8 300s are available this will be the option.

A question I have though is the fact that maybe a smuch as 50% of LIATs fleet consists of Caribbean Star planes which cant be that old, unless they were acquired used. Star went into operation in 2000 so these planes will be 12-13 years old. If so then that provides incentive for the really old planes to be replaced with newer 300s and deferring a fresh retooling until later.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-08-07 12:49:28 and read 7768 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 171):
The problem, they will have to pay for them in euros which is very expensive. The good part: They will be receiving well maintained Q300's

Well maintained hopefully for short cycles similar to what they will encounter in the Caribbean, if not, in short order they will be as high maintenance as those presently in the fleet, our short cycles, heat and excesive salt air are killers.

New planes are needed to ensure that in 3 to 5 years time we are not back at the same table.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-07 13:01:42 and read 7757 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 173):
Well maintained hopefully for short cycles similar to what they will encounter in the Caribbean, if not, in short order they will be as high maintenance as those presently in the fleet, our short cycles, heat and excesive salt air are killers.

I totally agree with you on this, that's why I said "they will receive well maintained aircraft"  
Quoting par13del (Reply 173):
New planes are needed to ensure that in 3 to 5 years time we are not back at the same table.

Only the big boys in the airline industry (such as Singapore Airlines, Emirates) can afford to replace their aircraft after just 7 years orso but airlines like LIAT should be able to keep brandnew aircraft for 10 years. The key is to maintain them very well as specified by the aircraft maunfacturers themselves.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-08-07 13:19:17 and read 7760 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 174):
but airlines like LIAT should be able to keep brandnew aircraft for 10 years. The key is to maintain them very well as specified by the aircraft maunfacturers themselves.

I think the biggest issue is getting the wrong a/c usually based on politics, the ATR's appear to have held up much better that the Dash-XXX in Caribbean service, one does have to wonder why all the former English colonies ended up with the same a/c when we now talk about airlines getting the best a/c for the job, financing, financing, financing.

The governments involved are at a cross roads but I fear the can will get kicked down the road again, so I expect used Dash-XX a/c and to see a re-visit of this fleet upgrade in another couple years.
Lets hope that the penny saved today does not become a pound tomorrow.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-07 18:49:50 and read 7664 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):

The route is low yielding, much lower than POS, because, POS can command extremely high fares due to the financial sector in POS.
EZjet flights from the summer are showing 50% loads despite the direct flights and the fares are extremely low in order to stimulate the market. Mind you the flight is only once per week.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):
1 GEo received 25k viistors in 2010 from Canada while POS received 47k. GND a scant 7k. SOURCE:CTO.

Mean absolutely nothing in term of yields and actual pax traveled. Lets put in into perspective, CAL transported 250,000 pax between POS-YYZ has the highest business class fares from any other destination CAL offers other than LGW per RSM, with high loads in J due to the financial sector in TnT.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):
2. The Guyanese population in the BW does NOT have to market it to. They merely need to take orders. They run the only same plane service and Guyanese are well aware of this service. I do see CAL better promoted within the Guyanese VFR market in YYZ.
CAL always markets NYC to all of its destination more so Guyana then even Jamaica, Grenada and Trinidad. They do not offer the same plane service from JFK, MCO, BGI and MIA. As I said things change and they could make the 601 continue into GEO as the 424-524-484, but, as it stands now it does not happen.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):
6. BW runs the 661 daily to connect with its red eyes flight ex POS. Why if according to you there is almost no one on this flight? The 425 runs daily an hour later and almost always has seats available.

Come on really? The 424/425 is always full (by that I mean over 80% load factor year round). The 660 has always been an early morning flight into GEO for years since in the day of BWIA, that caters towards those who want to do business in GEO and take the service. CAL numbers show that pax into GEO on that flight does not make up the majority of pax.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):
7. Indeed with the 527 the JFK GEO route has become low yield as BW tries to maintain market share. Not only that but its high cost with a wet leased OMNI jet and a possible need to use two crews..it leaves JFK at just before 10am and doesnt get back until just before 6AM next day.

What has it to do with anything, as I said before the connecting market from JFK with CAL from
Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):
8. Canada based Guyanese are the biggest gripers about POS intransits. If they felt that they had an alternative they would use it, not hope for an alternative...so clearly many indeed use BW on the
Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):
I suspect that some of those POS O&D numbers are actually destined to GEO, because not too long ago it was reported that JFK are profitable routes ex GEO.

O&D are pax not connecting towards any other destination within a a given time. Trinidad is their final destination. If 24 hrs or more later they go to GEO its not counted.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):
If yo are correct its not that CAL refuses to service the GEO YYZ GEO MARKET BECAUSE OF PIARCO.......and now wishes to paint the market as a bad one. .

Quoting guyanam (Reply 167):
What is definitely a lie is any pretence that GND YYZ, with its much smaller VFR market, and with Canadian gold and other natural resource companies all over Guyana, giving it some business traffic. Canadian leisure travelers are the most price sensitive and also loyal to their carriers So I am 90% sure that BW doesnt have or want this segment.

Not true, the 608/609 always has high loads as it almost empties out in GND to and from YYZ will grow because of the increasing economy, however, as I checked, CAL has little plans to start nonstop flights, maybe in the late winter or next year.

[Edited 2012-08-07 19:09:09]

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-07 19:00:42 and read 7657 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 158):
Maybe by ealy next year they can increase frequencies, once the fiasco of the ex minister anouncing that the route will be axed if it doesnt perform is forgotten. The nonstop feature, plus connections from GEO, might allow a 3rd frequency. I can well imagine that with ahigher frequency at 3X it begins to look more competitive against BA with its UVF stop. As of now BW provides the only same airline service LON-GEO so it should be popular with Guyana bound passengers, especially as there seems to be some eco/adventure tourism developing out of the UK to GEO.

Looks like you talked to soon and was confirmed as they will now run 3w from mid October. During the peak winter they will run it 4w and from internal it is said loads and forward bookings are high for the Christmas. Hopefully the Minister's utterances will fade away and people continue booking because this route has the potential to bring CAL back truly into the BWIA and JM bad days.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 158):
The question will be what will be done about the 767s given that there will be at least 8X/week rotations avialble with their 2 planes. Will this be to YYZ and/or JFK replacing Omni on the JFK GEO nonstop?

Its showing in the GDS that the 767 will start rotating LGW from the first week of September with deliver expected in Late August.
An update 9Y-TTC is showing to arrive this Monday.

Was speaking to a representative of Suriname Airways today and they said they are looking into replacing A340s with 767.

Quoting par13del (Reply 173):
New planes are needed to ensure that in 3 to 5 years time we are not back at the same table.

I have to agree, not sure why LI would want to take on more aging Dash8's but the bean counters may know more that we do.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-08 06:23:02 and read 7507 times.

I was wondering, Caribbean Airlines now has the following Dash-8 fleet:


c/n Aircraft Type Reg Airline Delivered Prev. Reg
487 DHC-8-314Q Dash 8 9Y-WIT Caribbean Airlines 01-10-2007 OE-LSA
489 DHC-8-311Q Dash 8 9Y-WIL Caribbean Airlines 01-10-2007 C-GFCW
499 DHC-8-311Q Dash 8 9Y-WIN Caribbean Airlines 01-10-2007 C-GDSG
538 DHC-8-311Q Dash 8 9Y-WIP Caribbean Airlines 01-10-2007 C-FDHI
557 DHC-8-315Q Dash 8 9Y-WIZ Caribbean Airlines 01-10-2007 C-GEMU

To my knowledge Caribbean Airlines will receive a total of 4 ATR72-600s is that correct? Even though the ATR72 is larger compared to the Dash-8, they will have fewer aircraft, meaning fewer frequencies on the routes they serve now. Is Caribbean Airlines planning on downsizing some of the Dash-8 routes they currently serve? Or will they order more ATR's in the future to accomodate growth?

What I've seen their Dash-8 fleet have quite busy schedules so how will they keep these schedules with fewer aircraft?

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-08 08:08:08 and read 7463 times.

I see Caribbean Airlines will be taking 5 ATR72's which is a one-on-one replacement. Just ignore my post 178 as it is clear now  

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-08 10:41:55 and read 7412 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 176):

.
Rather than argue with you let us go to the CAL website. .

CAL is offering base fare of CAD 478 for travel in September YYZ POS. ON THE SAME DAY its offering CAD 608 YYZ GEO.This is the BASE fare, not including taxes or surcharges.


Oh and BTW YYZ JFK GEO by DL on the same days is USD$723 BASE fare. .

1. BW makes MORE money on passengers going thru to GEO.. Dont say that GEO is further because the 661 operates daily, and is clearer oriented to the YYZ intransits, given that the 425 departs an hour later so will be preferred by POS boarding passengers. If you are correct that most Guyanese now use DL via JFk then they are are willing to pay MORE. This flies in the face of your notion that this is some impoverished group (yes the usual Trini stereotype of Guyanese I know)..

.2. Are you seriously telling me that GND, which attracts 7k visitors from YYZ has a LARGER market than GEO which attracts 25K? And why will GND be a higher yielding route when it is the same VFR passengers. .Dont claim leisure because they are lower yielding and BW would have to compete with AC and other charters during the winter, and the Canada leisure market is veryu winter focused.

3. Why does the 661 daily year round operate YEAR ROUND when the 425 has seats available? It does so because quite a few of those socalled O&D passengers are actually intransit to GEO.

4. The complaints from intransits in POS are arriving from YYZ and describe "scores" of passengers waiting to use one elevator. The only route which can generate scores of intransits is YYZ as JFK gets direct/nonstop service on BW so people stay on the plane (and arent allowed to disembark).

5. EZjet has just started its route. I wondr how come you know their loads are 50%. You know that ONE flight was. By the time plans for this route were announced many would have already made plans, and others will be skeptical of yet another charter and would want to see how well it works before risking it.BTW the flight runs 2x per week.

You may have your opinions but you must understand the facts. YYZ GEO is a decent market for CAL. Less so than JFK but the third in terms of passenger volume behind JFK and POS. GEO is also no more a low yielding route than is GND.

What is most likely is that the 601/611 terminate in POS and so the stats that you have do not include passngers going on to GEO. It flies in the face of logic that the average 500 pax/week on the YYZ GEO all use DL.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-08 10:47:27 and read 7405 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 180):

You can say what ever you want, as far as I am concerned the management of CAL know a lot more that you in the markets they service. This discussion will no longer be argued let the market force dictate what happens.

BTW your fare quote is wrong, the airline's saber system shows this:
YYZ-GND CAD 466.00
YYZ-POS CAD 281.00
YYZ-GEO CAD 319.00

The are the true base fares N discount for the low season September 12th to November 15th

[Edited 2012-08-08 10:58:39]

[Edited 2012-08-08 11:31:44]

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-08 11:32:47 and read 7380 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 181):

Are you claiming that the website is wrong? I went to CALs website and got it from there out on Sept 9th and returning the following week.. This is the base fare quoted in CAD to people who are booking on that site.If that sytem is quoting wrong fares then they need to fix it.

Any case even here you show that YYZ GEO is more than YYZ POS.

This is not what "I can say what I want". This is about your assertion that the YYZ GND market is a bigger and betterthan the YYZ GEO market. It appears as if you cant counter the fact that more than 3x the numbers of passengers travel to GEO ex YYZ than into GND. Given that both markets are likely to be VFR, and there is likely to be more business traffic into GEO than GND (given the number of Cdn mining companies there) and that what ever leisure market that GND has is lower yielding than the VFR I am deeply interested in your ability to disprove my claims if you can.

The YYZ GEO market is a decent one, no more low yielding than other VFR markets and I am fairly sure that the bulk of those passengers use CAL as using DL is MORE expensive and inconvenient.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BE77
Posted 2012-08-08 14:38:35 and read 7315 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 162):
The pax numbers show that of all pax CAL POS-YYZ 85% are O/D to and from POS, 10% from GND and the rest are shared between TAB, GEO and PBM.
Quoting guyanam (Reply 172):
CTO reports that approx 25k visitors from Canada go to Guyana



I find both of these numbers to be at odds with my own (frequent) travel on these routes.
The 25k per year to GEO seems to be a really small number - is that strictly Cdn passport holders, not including perhaps all the landed immigrant visitors that still have Guyana passports? If it is tourism numbers it likely does not include the Guyanese travelling to visit relatives in Canada. I do believe the market could easily be 50k per year in YYZ-GEO all inclusive, as what some of the info isn't showing is the traffic through BGI and MIA and POS from YYZ to GEO. There is YYZ origin traffic on the DL and BW flights from JFK as well. The current numbers also don't show the people that would do it more often if it wasn't such a pain (for both business and VFR traffic).

I question the CAL O/D numbers as well - maybe it is what they are seeing in the traffic they carry from YYZ to POS, but they POS-GEO and POS-PBM legs have more people that started their day in t YYZ than they think.
Unless you really really really hate yourself, you are not going to try to fly YYZ-POS-PBM on BW. (Even A.nuts who like adding routes and stops to their logs would hesitate here). The connections just don't make sense (redeye followed by an all day wait in POS...ugh). It's almost as bad for GEO.

So, for the YYZ-PBM market, you need to look at the YYZ-BGI-POS-PBM, YYZ-MIA-(CUR or AUA or POS)-PBM. So even though they don't realise it, BW is carrying and additional 10 to 20 YYZ originating pax every flight into PBM, often more, and for the oil and mining businesses so generally better fares. On a % basis, this is probably worth 5 percent more 'just' for the PBM market from YYZ.
Same considerations apply for the YYZ-GEO flights - it is much saner to travel through BGI or MIA and connect to the evening flights to GEO from POS than it is to fly BW metal redeyes.
For example, both the the 17:30 BW Dash 8 and the milk run 738 from BGI usually have at least 10 or 15 of the pax (often more) go straight to the in transit elevator to continue on to GEO or PBM. Most of those originated in YYZ (via AC or WS) since the travel times are more reasonable, but it would be easy for BW to count them as BGI to GEO/PBM traffic...but in total it's probably 10% of the YYZ-POS traffic - making the % breakdown between POS and GEO bound pax closer already. Plus, a lot of the BGI connecting pax are the higher paying type that BW wants but doesn't see for the first 2400 miles. (I know of at least a dozen flights per month in J, plus maybe 40 more per month in higher Y fares that take the BGI route - I'm one of them).

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 177):
Was speaking to a representative of Suriname Airways today and they said they are looking into replacing A340s with 767


Replacing 'the' A340 with a 767 (not plural   )
It would be more efficient of course, but maintaining ETOPS for a single aircraft is going to be difficult (time and $$$) not impossible of course, but not easy. In theory it would be more efficient, but, if just one ETOPS item breaks on your one airplane, the cancellations costs are going to use up a lot of 767 vs 340 fuel savings in a hurry. Especially since the utilization is pretty low for the 340 anyway (PBM-AMS 3x weekly) so fuel is not as big an issue as it would be if it was in the air 12 or 14 hours per day.
I don't think the two 733's are, could be, or need to be ETOPs certified for any of routes they likely would use them for

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 150):
Suriname Airways eyeing a return to French Guyana


While looking for some other info, I found this article quoting the PY CEO as well. Seem like they have big plans all around - executing those plans might be a bit more challenging!
http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/head...t-operation-with-Guyana-12017.html

So if they become a de facto 'national' carrier for their neighbours - then ETOPS for a couple of 767's for the GEO to New York and YYZ and the PBM-AMS routes starts to make sense to me in theory. (I can't imagine the political risks involved though...in addition to the 'normal' rivalries between any two countries, there is a little matter of the border dispute which although normally dormant, gets trotted out every now and again. That both are part of Caricom seems to be helping things somewhat, if not perfectly).

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 181):
the management of CAL know a lot more that you in the markets they service.

They should, but which edition of the CAL management? We'll see about the new version (looks good so far as long as they are able to recover from the mess they were handed), and a couple of versions ago they seemed to...but it has certainly gone up and down in the 20 years I have been traveling through the Caribbean.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BWIA 772
Posted 2012-08-08 15:28:58 and read 7280 times.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 143):
Quoting andrefranca (Reply 170):

The article is poorly researched and the author does not have a real grasp of the issue at hand and the steps that LI has gone through to reach this point.

1) LIAT has no US$ 60 m loan outstanding with the CDB. The loan was used by shareholder governments namely BGI, ANU and SV&G to inject money into LI to a) fund the acquisition of 8B assets and b) give LI a clean balance sheet. In other words it should be treated like the US$250 million the GROTT put into Caribbean Airlines i.e. it not a liability on the Caribbean Airlines book.

2) LIAT management cannot present a fleet renewal plan to the BoD and in-turn the BoD to the relevant shareholders without a variety of financing options. While these financing options have not been made public any assumption that this crucial point has been overlooked is simply stupid. Especially when it is that a decision has been made by the shareholders to go ahead with negotiations for an order!

3) While ATR has racked up orders for the 72-600 the 42-600 does not have the same level of orders. ATR has not announced sold out production like Airbus and Boeing. Additionally ATR is planning a production increase so the point of no production slots for LI at ATR seems moot to me. Again LI have been talking to the manufacturers and would have a far better understanding of production slot availability than some poor rate author to lazy to do a proper google search!

4)The LI network is such that standardization to a 70 seat aircraft does not make sense. At the end of the day there is a need for a 50 seater as they are only a limited number of routes that will justify the upgrade to a 70 seater. Given this fact it would seem to me that this would be ATR's order to loose.

5) LIAT consideration of E170/190 family had little to do with its current route structure and more with the possible markets that such an aircraft would open up for LI.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 172):

LI fleet information from Airfleet.net while not the most up to date (as they still have the Dash 8 100s as being active).

LI Current Fleet

MSN Reg YOM Notes
230 LGN 1991 Ex Dutch Caribbean Airlines Dash 8 went to LI 08/2009
250 LFU 1990 Ex 8B aircraft went to 8B in 07/2002 went to LI 10/2007
266 LGB 1991 Ex 8B aircraft went to 8B in 12/2003 went to LI 11/2007
267 LFM 1991 Ex 8B aircraft went to 8B in 07/2001 went to LI 11/2007
283 LFV 1991 Leased by LI from 07/2002
298 LGC 1993 Ex 8B aircraft went to 8B in 03/2004 went to LI 11/2007
300 LGD 1993 Ex 8B aircraft went to 8B in 02/2004 went to LI 11/2007
325 LGI 1992 Leased by LI from 04/2006
404 LGG 1995 Leased by LI from 02/2006
408 LEU 1996 With LI from 12/1996
410 LFF 1996 Ex 8B aircraft went to 8B in 07/2001 went to LI 09/2007
412 LES 1996 With LI from 06/1996
416 LET 1996 With LI from 06/1996


At the end of the day remember that when it comes to intra caribbean flying the problem you cannot get away from is that you will end up with higher cycle aircraft which from what I have been told will drive up your maintenance cost.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-08 16:01:11 and read 7268 times.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 184):
3) While ATR has racked up orders for the 72-600 the 42-600 does not have the same level of orders. ATR has not announced sold out production like Airbus and Boeing. Additionally ATR is planning a production increase so the point of no production slots for LI at ATR seems moot to me. Again LI have been talking to the manufacturers and would have a far better understanding of production slot availability than some poor rate author to lazy to do a proper google search!

This I found strange as well. As you said, the ATR42-600 hasn't been sold out in any way, not even the ATR72-600 production line so there is room for more orders that can be delivered fairly quickly.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-08 16:20:00 and read 7262 times.

Quoting BE77 (Reply 183):

The 25k YYZ GEo refers to people who dont reside in Guyana visiting from Canada.This is provided by the caribbean Tourism Org as furnished by the Govt of GY. It does not include residents of Guyana returning from a trip to Canada. Many do travel there for various reasons but I do not have that data. Needless to say that 25k works out to an average 500/week, maybe more like 300 in the low season and more than double that during the peaks. This doenst look like some small market ti be ignored or dismissed as low yield...given that what ever method they use to travel to GEO, its more than what people pay to get to POS.


the 601/661 works fine with just over one hour stop in POS. A problem will occur if the same plane isnt used as passengers will then need to disembark, and all the Piarco drama begins. There really isnt an alternative on the YYZ GEO which is more convenient time wise. yes there are those who do AA/WS to BGI and then transfer to LIat...if they are FF travelers. But I suspect your average Guyanese traveling with as many suitcases as he can (with the 3 y/o traveling with his full allowance) will not do that circutous route that you describe.

BW does not do YYZ PBM because an all day connection in POS is out of the question. maybe some might do PBM YYZ on BW and then return to PBM via MIA, picking up BW there or in POS.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 184):

the factor that will most dominate LIATs retooling will be what they can afford. Looking at that list about half of the planes seem to be around 10 years old. If they can find Dash8s that are used but for less than 10 years they may well do this on an interim basis as not all of their fleet are aged. That is unless Star got old planes.

They must retire the older planes IMMEDIATELY, as their continued operation has become quite costly. I suspect it will take time to arrange financing for brand new planes (look at what BW is undergoing and they have a rich godfather) so that might be step two.Even though LI isnt highly leveraged its weak cash flow will necessiate govt guarantees which might not be easy to get. The govts owe CDB for what they used to wipe out LIATs old debt.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-08-08 16:47:57 and read 7249 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 186):
Looking at that list about half of the planes seem to be around 10 years old. If they can find Dash8s that are used but for less than 10 years they may well do this on an interim basis as not all of their fleet are aged. That is unless Star got old planes.

Around 10? More like 15+ years. Im not sure how many younger dash 8-300s are still available.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 184):
LI fleet information from Airfleet.net while not the most up to date (as they still have the Dash 8 100s as being active).

Actually its not really wrong. I remember seeing a 100 or 2 on my way down to MNI, they operate under LIAT Cargo.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-08 17:07:37 and read 7236 times.

Quoting A388 (Reply 185):
Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 187):

Well if LIAT can finance 15 new planes....but apparently they cant. The question is who will guarantee the financing that will be needed? I assume that they will lease but even that has upfront cost implications.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-08-08 17:34:34 and read 7221 times.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 184):
LI fleet information from Airfleet.net while not the most up to date (as they still have the Dash 8 100s as being active).
Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 187):
Actually its not really wrong. I remember seeing a 100 or 2 on my way down to MNI, they operate under LIAT Cargo.

LI only has one remaining -100 in the fleet, that being -LDQ, which is only used for cargo runs. The other two -100's, LEF & LDU were sold a few months ago which ended up being scrapped.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 187):
Around 10? More like 15+ years. Im not sure how many younger dash 8-300s are still available.

I'm sure they are many younger Dash 8's out there, but how many of them are on the market? I'm sure operators know the value of those aircraft and are not parting with them anytime soon. Even if they are, I'm sure they'll come at a pretty penny.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 188):
Well if LIAT can finance 15 new planes....but apparently they cant. The question is who will guarantee the financing that will be needed? I assume that they will lease but even that has upfront cost implications.

Word around the water cooler is that LI got decent enough financing deals from all the manufacturers they met with. Like any other business trying to sell a product, aircraft manufacturers will sweeten the pot to ensure it gets a new or maintain an existing customer. As they say, no two airlines pay the same price for the same plane. As broke as LI may appear from the outside, its actually not far off from being a self sustaining airline. The number being thrown about if LI were to acquire new aircraft is 7. If history is anything to go by, the Avro's stayed in the fleet for a number of years after LI began acquiring Dash 8's. So with that said, if LI were to get 7 new aircraft tomorrow, I'm sure a small number, maybe 5 or less Dash 8's will be around for a little while.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BE77
Posted 2012-08-09 08:05:35 and read 7065 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 186):
The 25k YYZ GEo refers to people who dont reside in Guyana visiting from Canada.

Makes sense - and indicates that the total YYZ-GEO is quite a bit larger, which is what you (and I) believe. I am not sure how BW and C484 are calculating the numbers, but I suspect they aren't keeping as close an eye on where their customers are originating.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 186):
the 601/661 works fine with just over one hour stop in POS.

Ugh. Debateable! While the hour or so spent in the connection for the 601/661 connection is fine, the time of day for such a connection is ugly. If there is a choice (ie if the fare is being paid by a company, or if you ar willing to pay for daytime travel), then the whole experience of an zero dark thirty extra landing or plane change in the middle of a red-eye flight is to be avoided if at all possible. It is such a miserable experience - even if you are ready for it then there is the short tempers of everyone else who is on it, and the slightest hiccup turns into a big deal since no one is in a good mood to begin with. Been there many times (on that flight combo) and even on a good day it is still miserable. Unless no option available the day time flights YYZ to POS via MIA or BGI and on to GEO is much preferable.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 186):
maybe some might do PBM YYZ on BW and then return to PBM via MIA, picking up BW there or in POS.

"Maybe many" actually. I will do it about 10 times this year, and there can be easily 10 to 20 that I know of on any given flight out of PBM. As you determined, YYZ - PBM all the way on BW is crazy, but lots of people still get here using alternative route. But, on the days when the BW 9:30 am POS-YYZ flight is available, it is the fastest, simplest way to travel PBM to YYZ.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-09 11:46:36 and read 6991 times.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 189):

If they get ATRs then they will have the expense of two different fleets, however at least the ATR offers the mix of seat configurations that LI needs to service its routes. Its commonly agreed that 70seats is too much for most of their routes.Especially with declining intra regional travel, which is down by almost 50% from its peak in 2007.

I guess LI also has the advantage of having a relatively large fleet and a complex and vital route system which gives it high visibility in the 50/70 seater market. Hence the manufacturers are vying for a sale. I can well imagine that they get much data, given LIATs unique issues of short distancs, quick ground turn around and marine corrosion, etc.

Does the water cooler chatter talk about the embraer's? Is it likely or just a dream? If so what routes? Based on what I know of LI only that ANU BGI GEO, and the BGI ANU SJU routes can sustain such a/c, especialy with the complete withdrawl of Eagle from the southern islands and its planned total withdrawal from next year. Air Caraibe seems to be dumping these planes though as they seek to cut costs. Maybe SDQ, depending on the year round loads.

The former 8B planes arent that old so might be around for a while unless that financing package is realy sweet.

Quoting BE77 (Reply 190):

c484 has gone silent, which suggests to me that he cant back his assertions. It seems to me to be highly unlikely that GEO will be a smaller market for BW ex YYZ than is GND, when the size of the Guyanese population is notorious, second behind Jamaicans...and I mean JUST BEHIND.....there are more Guyanese of Portuguese and Chinese ancestry in YYZ than in Guyana!!!! What I think is that his O&D numbers reflect passengers traveling on the 601 which has a next day arrival in POS so the GEO pax, who continue on the 661 are treated as if they ended their journey in POS.

As to overnite travel. Well both Guyanese and Trinis have become accustomed to it. The busiest time at GEO, as you might know, is early morining when BW has 2 flights, DL 1 and EZ 1 more on certain days. Thats more than 600 pax in a relatively tiny terminal.

Oh yes bad tempers to be sure (passengers and cabin crews who have to be up early, so have little patience for cranky passengers0. And this Guyanese in Piarco has a dynamic where tempers flare because some Guyanese think that it is the policy of BWIA/CAL and the govt of T&T to punish them, and the airline/airport authorities prbably think that Guyanese are manic and irrational, and just plain difficult who sometimes need to be controlled by the police....dont know how that problem is going to be solved as it is more than 30 years in the making.

Many prefer arriving in the morning as it gives them the whole day when they get there. Others, especially guyanese who may have to travel more than 100 miles to their final destination, appreciate the early morning arrival, rather than driving through the dark. So they bear it as a necessary evil, though they will prefer nonstop.

The alternatives are worse. AC/WS YYZ BGI =>LI to GEO.........guaranteed lost bags. DL YYZ JFK GEO.......3 hours more and then its the same red eye issue. Via MIA.........miles and miles of walking with tired kids and tons of baggage (you know how Cbn people travel). Picking up BW at POS (already mentioned that Guyanese and POS mix like cats and dogs). So 601/661 is it. Or the 611/525 if you want a day time departure and you dont mind arriving in GEO at 130AM. Interestingly the 601 red eye is the more popular of the two for Guyanese.

I can bet that of BWs longer routes YYZ GEO is rank 5th or 6th behind service from JFK to POS and GEO YYZ to POS and MIA/FLL to POS. I am only refering to its POS base operations.

To me out of PBM BW does POS/bgi/sxm/anu/kin//mia/fll/jfk/yyz. Into PBM its jfk/mia/kin/sxm/anu/bgi/pos. The god thing about BW is their fares are one way so you dont lose out by using them in one direction and another carrier on the return. Unless you have friends in POS flying into PBM from YYZ is CRAZY!!! JFK used to be like that too until they pushed back the departure to PBM to around 10PM allowing a good connection on we/sa/su.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: bw415
Posted 2012-08-09 14:10:08 and read 6945 times.

I have not posted here in what feels like and probably is years.. not because I don't read or follow daily and religiously but ever since the whole thread split I thought I would step away from opinions and come here looking for the facts. Which brings me to this post....

Quoting guyanam (Reply 191):
Quoting guyanam (Reply 191):
c484 has gone silent, which suggests to me that he cant back his assertions. It seems to me to be highly unlikely that GEO will be a smaller market for BW ex YYZ than is GND,

I think you need to relax. You're killing the fun of this thread. We heard you loud and clear the first time. As far as I'm concerned you're being a bully and simply baiting people on this thread continually.

Not every Guyanese traveler or West Indian for that matter shares your view of CAL at large. The market is free and open for capitalism so who ever feels the need to start direct GEO-YYZ flights will do so. This is about making money here and if the yields were amazing it would already be done. The yields are clearly way better passing pax through POS, regardless of passenger "comfort". You really think CAL doesn't check or know where pax originate from? There are very view destinations that don't require some sort of connection. CAL is a small airline in the great scheme of things. I don't see anybody else rushing in to cater to the GEO or PBM market. Dollars and cents talk first. Nobody cares who has to travel 100 miles after their flight. The current schedule works based on the a/c availability.

Who vex loss.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-08-09 14:42:37 and read 6925 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 191):
Its commonly agreed that 70seats is too much for most of their routes.Especially with declining intra regional travel, which is down by almost 50% from its peak in 2007.

Due to extremely high prices?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-09 16:09:57 and read 6881 times.

Quoting bw415 (Reply 192):
Quoting guyanam (Reply 191):

Quoting guyanam (Reply 191):
c484 has gone silent, which suggests to me that he cant back his assertions. It seems to me to be highly unlikely that GEO will be a smaller market for BW ex YYZ than is GND,

I think you need to relax. You're killing the fun of this thread. We heard you loud and clear the first time. As far as I'm concerned you're being a bully and simply baiting people on this thread continually.

I totally agree with you on this, at some point it just isn't worth discussing with guyanam and Caribbean484 did the right thing to just not reply anymore. It has nothing to do with not being able to back this or that up. Just a smart decision.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BWIA 772
Posted 2012-08-09 16:38:24 and read 6872 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 187):

  

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 189):
Word around the water cooler is that LI got decent enough financing deals from all the manufacturers they met with. Like any other business trying to sell a product, aircraft manufacturers will sweeten the pot to ensure it gets a new or maintain an existing customer. As they say, no two airlines pay the same price for the same plane. As broke as LI may appear from the outside, its actually not far off from being a self sustaining airline. The number being thrown about if LI were to acquire new aircraft is 7. If history is anything to go by, the Avro's stayed in the fleet for a number of years after LI began acquiring Dash 8's. So with that said, if LI were to get 7 new aircraft tomorrow, I'm sure a small number, maybe 5 or less Dash 8's will be around for a little while.

Well I am glad to hear LI is not on its death bed. I think what will happen is that the initial 7 will be strict dash 8 replacements the later order will be for a larger type of aircraft.

Quoting bw415 (Reply 192):

  

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-08-09 16:43:07 and read 6876 times.

Quoting par13del (Reply 52):
somewhat lower than the slower less sophisticated ATR's.

Well the new -600s have more powerful engines (PW127M) and all glass cockpits. Another thought is that the Chinese are desperate to sell their new MA600.

Quoting A388 (Reply 56):
CUR-SXM to my knowledge is well within the range of the ATR42.

Shouldn't be a problem at 561nm

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-09 16:45:38 and read 6869 times.

Quoting bw415 (Reply 192):
Quoting A388 (Reply 194):

I refuse to comment any further as I noted yesterday, Nobody tells me when to respond to their comment or baits me into a stupid argument.
I presented what is at management level and As we say in Trinidad and Tobago "Who vex lorse"

In other news, as I noted yesterday CAL will take delivery of their 2 767s at the end of August with initial flights commencing in the second week of September to LGW and replacing the Omni 767 from JFK-GEO year round.

The airline will take 9Y-TTC this weekend and 9Y-TTD next month.

Quote:

Caribbean Airlines flights to London have been booked for the most part so far.

CAL’s Chairman, Rabindra Moonan, told 7 Eyewitness News that flights are 80% booked for the month of August.

And he says bookings are looking good for September and October as well.

The state airline is currently using a wet-lease-aircraft to operate the London route but Chairman Moonan says CAL will be receiving its two 767’s later this month.

One aircraft is expected on August 21st and another on August 24th.

In addition to the London route, it will be used in New York and Georgetown.

Also next week, CAL will get its third ATR which will be used for Tobago.
http://www.wintvworld.com/e-news/?p=16589

Cause of LIAT fire confirmed
Speaking to OBSERVER Media in an exclusive interview yesterday, Assistant Commissioner Jackson said, “The origin was given earlier as a golf cart which was left plugged in. Whether the golf cart itself had a problem or developed a short circuit we are not certain yet because there are certain things to be tested in that connection with the golf cart – to determine exactly whether it was the fault of the golf cart; faulty wires or transformers; etcetera or the type of battery used for the type of golf cart.”
http://www.antiguaobserver.com/?p=79172

British Airways launch new first class flights from London to the Caribbean
"British Airways has announced the introduction of its award-winning, new First class service on four of its popular Caribbean routes from Gatwick this summer.
Customers flying on holidays to Barbados, Bermuda, St Lucia and Port of Spain in Trinidad will be able to experience the new British Airways premium cabin."
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/ne...ghts-from-london-to-the-caribbean/

BA will reduce LGW-POS to 5w from the fall onward while keeping LGW-UVF daily.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-08-09 17:18:55 and read 6856 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 197):
British Airways launch new first class flights from London to the Caribbean
"British Airways has announced the introduction of its award-winning, new First class service on four of its popular Caribbean routes from Gatwick this summer.
Customers flying on holidays to Barbados, Bermuda, St Lucia and Port of Spain in Trinidad will be able to experience the new British Airways premium cabin."
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/ne...ghts-from-london-to-the-caribbean/

Interesting, I guess there's some demand for it on these routes. I wonder if theyll add ANU or other Caribbean destinations to that list.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-09 17:51:08 and read 6846 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 198):
Interesting, I guess there's some demand for it on these routes. I wonder if theyll add ANU or other Caribbean destinations to that list.

Hopefully but the reason for this is because of the high traffic on all these points, BGI as we know is known as Little England and the demand for business pax is always there.
BDA because of the off shore economy, large insurance companies based there and that it remains a British dependency.
UVF and POS is more geared to POS as BA flies the 4 class 777 on days they operate to POS due to the oil and financial industry.
I'm sure ANU will get added to the schedule sometime soon.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-09 20:47:59 and read 6801 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 197):
replacing the Omni 767 from JFK-GEO year round

Great news. I just hope the prices remain low. I did JFK-GEO-JFK a few times on 526/527 and I don't miss the stop over in POS, only that I don't get to see all of BW's 9Y 738's.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: trintocan
Posted 2012-08-10 05:59:28 and read 6702 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 199):

Hopefully but the reason for this is because of the high traffic on all these points, BGI as we know is known as Little England and the demand for business pax is always there.
BDA because of the off shore economy, large insurance companies based there and that it remains a British dependency.
UVF and POS is more geared to POS as BA flies the 4 class 777 on days they operate to POS due to the oil and financial industry.
I'm sure ANU will get added to the schedule sometime soon.

True on all points, UVF does get some premium holiday traffic too so First works from there as well. As far as I know at present BA use the 4-class 777s on 2 of the 6 LGW - UVF - POS services and 3-class jets on the other 4 weekly services plus the Sun LGW - UVF - GND. ANU I doubt seeing that all the flights there continue to destinations with virtually no premium demand (TAB, GND, SJU, SKB and PUJ) and serving it with First would require deployment of additional 4-class 777s at LGW - the demand for First is far higher at LHR.

Trintocan.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-08-10 07:46:03 and read 6692 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 199):
UVF and POS is more geared to POS as BA flies the 4 class 777 on days they operate to POS due to the oil and financial industry.
Quoting trintocan (Reply 201):
True on all points, UVF does get some premium holiday traffic too so First works from there as well. As far as I know at present BA use the 4-class 777s on 2 of the 6 LGW - UVF - POS services and 3-class jets on the other 4 weekly services plus the Sun LGW - UVF - GND.

Never knew that they sent the 4 class 777s to the Caribbean at all. I had the impression that all the LGW based 777's were 3 class. Good to know, thanks for that.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-10 07:48:38 and read 6693 times.

Quoting bw415 (Reply 192):
Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 197):

So continue to persist with your inaccurate information that more passengers fly YYZ to GND than to GEO. Like you said "whio vex loss" and I am neither vexed nor will I lose.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-10 08:46:53 and read 6674 times.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 200):
Great news. I just hope the prices remain low. I did JFK-GEO-JFK a few times on 526/527 and I don't miss the stop over in POS, only that I don't get to see all of BW's 9Y 738's.

Yep, it's better that way, Omi is a very good airline and good service, but CAL should now maintain their own brand service on the route.

Quoting trintocan (Reply 201):

  

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 202):

Never knew that they sent the 4 class 777s to the Caribbean at all. I had the impression that all the LGW based 777's were 3 class. Good to know, thanks for that.

With the loss of the concorde service to BGI, BA had some services from BGI-LHR in the winter there after and then a couple of years ago transfered some of their 4 class 772 to LGW.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 189):
Word around the water cooler is that LI got decent enough financing deals from all the manufacturers they met with. Like any other business trying to sell a product, aircraft manufacturers will sweeten the pot to ensure it gets a new or maintain an existing customer. As they say, no two airlines pay the same price for the same plane. As broke as LI may appear from the outside, its actually not far off from being a self sustaining airline. The number being thrown about if LI were to acquire new aircraft is 7. If history is anything to go by, the Avro's stayed in the fleet for a number of years after LI began acquiring Dash 8's. So with that said, if LI were to get 7 new aircraft tomorrow, I'm sure a small number, maybe 5 or less Dash 8's will be around for a little while.

LI will choose the best deal that suits them.

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 189):

LI only has one remaining -100 in the fleet, that being -LDQ, which is only used for cargo runs. The other two -100's, LEF & LDU were sold a few months ago which ended up being scrapped.

Planespotters for me has always been up to date with airline's and a/c transfer, maybe they need to upgrade their listing.
http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/LIAT

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: N312RM
Posted 2012-08-10 11:00:19 and read 6604 times.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 195):
Well I am glad to hear LI is not on its death bed.

Didn't Dominica government invest some EC$8m in LI a few months ago? All the talk about LI going out of business is, in my opinion, a lot of baloney. It is too important a tool in the development of EC economies to be shut down.

Glad to hear that BW will soon be able to operate their own B763's on the LGW route. This has been a nightmare for them. 80% LF is excellent by any measure on a new route like this with such strong competition. It deserves to succeed.

BTW, KX GCM-PTY is doing very poorly. I suspect that it will not return after flights cease for the traditionally slow period from September to November.

On the other hand, GCM-DFW is doing excellent. I expect that additional flights will be added for the winter season and it will become a year round service.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-10 11:03:21 and read 6617 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 204):
Yep, it's better that way, Omi is a very good airline and good service, but CAL should now maintain their own brand service on the route.


Yeah CAL is much better, I flew OAI in June and the service wasn't too bad. In July there was a CAL FA onboard and the service was totally different. Everytime I flipped the FA switch no response until I got the CAL FA and then I got what I needed. Glad when CAL takes over.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-08-10 12:02:52 and read 6582 times.

Quoting N312RM (Reply 205):
BTW, KX GCM-PTY is doing very poorly. I suspect that it will not return after flights cease for the traditionally slow period from September to November.

Ouch too bad! do you know how GCM-LCE is doing? I have a flight with KX on this leg! 

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-10 12:22:49 and read 6566 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 204):
Planespotters for me has always been up to date with airline's and a/c transfer, maybe they need to upgrade their listing.

They are indeed a very good source for airline fleet information. I also use them often to find aircraft registration details.

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-10 15:52:54 and read 6499 times.

Quoting N312RM (Reply 205):

LI isnt going any where but the small amount that DOM is putting in doesnt address the significant losses that they had this year. Maybe with Redjet out of the way with higher airfares the rest of this year will be better, And when the new planes replace the oldest ones their maintenance expenses will drop.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 206):

This should improve their yields on that route as those costs to wet lease must be killing them. Glad to know that this route is now permanent and not just dependent on Ezjet. I would expect some change in the schedule given that the jet wil now be based in POS and not out of JFK. Cant keep a crew in JFK all week from Mon early morning to Friday!!!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-10 22:54:39 and read 6400 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 209):

Can't figure out why 526/527 flies to POS and not just directly back to JFK. Surely BW can negotiate with the GOG to have that flight be JFK-GEO-JFK. Here are some pics of my flight on June:

527 3 Hour delay 6/30/12


527 Essequibo River /30/12


527 Arrival GEO 6/30/12


PBM crashed off here GEO 6/30/12


GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-08-11 15:06:17 and read 6212 times.

Quoting N312RM (Reply 205):
KX GCM-PTY is doing very poorly. I suspect that it will not return after flights cease for the traditionally slow period from September to November.

I could bet that if the route was flown by CM another would be the performance.
How much has CM been promoting its code-share on KX GCM-PTY?
Were the CM Mileage-plus members able to earn miles on those KX GCM-PTY?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-08-11 17:48:28 and read 6156 times.

Quoting N312RM (Reply 205):
BTW, KX GCM-PTY is doing very poorly.

I suspect that it needs more frequency to appeal to business pax....but I also suspect KX will stick this one out.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 207):
Ouch too bad! do you know how GCM-LCE is doing? I have a flight with KX on this leg! 

It does "ok"....and it is not going anywhere as the workers in Cayman need somehow to get home. worst case scenario is that it gets transferred to RTB. Last I heard they wanted to make it a triangle GCM-LCE-BZE/RTB-GCM

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-08-13 07:12:00 and read 5909 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 212):
It does "ok"....and it is not going anywhere as the workers in Cayman need somehow to get home. worst case scenario is that it gets transferred to RTB. Last I heard they wanted to make it a triangle GCM-LCE-BZE/RTB-GCM

The GCM-LCE-BZE-GCM would make sense!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-08-13 07:16:59 and read 5912 times.

Quote:
Caribbean Airlines needs planes
By Vernon Khelawan Thursday, August 9 2012

CARIBBEAN Airlines Limited (CAL) is expected to take delivery of its third ATR-72-600 by the end of this week.

This came from a well-placed Piarco source late last week, however, the actual date could not yet be confirmed, because discussions on the payment for the aircraft were ongoing and expected to be finalised on Monday.

Business Day also learned that the other six aircraft would be delivered on a monthly basis, quite similar to the original arrangement, except there still seems to be some difficulties surrounding the sourcing of cash to pay for each individual aircraft before delivery. As it stands the fourth aircraft is expected before the end of September.

The inability of the airline to take possession of the planes according to the original schedule has caused serious problems on the airbridge, mainly because of a shortage of pilots, since many of the cockpit crews who operated the airline’s Dash-8-300 fleet were sent for training on the ATRs. Also, the plans as Business Day understands it, were to take the Dash-8s offline and replace them with the ATRs as they came in every month according to the original plans. But this never happened.

CAL is in such desperate need of these new planes that even though the aircraft has not yet arrived in Trinidad, CAL has already placed the third aircraft on the airbridge schedule, beginning the third week in September. Weekends proved to be nightmares last month and many have been the occasions when there was need to press into airbridge service one of the B-737s to reduce the long standby list at both ends – Piarco International in Trinidad and the Arthur Robinson International in Tobago.

And while on the subject of airplanes, Caribbean Airlines has not yet been apprised by the Trinidad and Tobago Civil Aviation Authority (TTCAA) about the certification status of the two B-767ER-216 aircraft the airline has leased from Chilean airline LAN Chile, specifically to operate the London service to Gatwick.

While that service has been operating for almost two months, no word has come publicly from the TTCAA as to when these two planes, which remain sitting in a hangar at an airport in Mexico City, would be able to fly into Trinidad. At the launch of the London service on June 14 last, there was talk that the planes would have been in Trinidad. That too, has not happened.

What also has not happened is a public final report on the Caribbean Airlines B-737 aircraft which skidded off the runway at Cheddi Jagan International in Guyana on the night of July 30 2011.

The Guyana Civil Aviation Authority has already submitted its own findings, which has attributed the accident to pilot error. The US authorities, who were also involved in the investigations, have remained silent on the matter.

According to the Guyana report, its probe indicated that the pilot had overshot the runway, going past the normal touchdown point and the out of control aircraft careened into a perimeter fence and split in two. These findings did not go down too well with the TTCAA which insisted at the time that investigations were still being conducted.

And even as the anniversary date flew past last week, there is no indication of exactly where the probe is right now and how much longer it would take before the findings are made known to the public.

Source: http://www.newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,164536.html

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-13 11:10:33 and read 5838 times.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 210):

I think that it is because CAL isnt a designatdd flag carrier, but falls under a "community of interest" (i.e. is given certain route rights because GY, like Bds, etc are deemed to have regional community connections to its owner T&T) so it has route rights between GEO and points other than POS but must have flights that continue on to POS, or must be an extension of flights to POS. Hence the need to fly on to POS, even though there isnt a commercial need for this...and also what they might save thru cheaper ful in POS must be offset by flying what must be a fairly empty plane on the POS GEO sector.

What were the loads on the 526/527?

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: voodoo
Posted 2012-08-13 12:54:26 and read 5794 times.

I see the Trinidad gold medallist Keshorn Walcott is getting a CAL plane named after him.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/166012876.html

I don't suppose 'Caribbean' AL has a plane already named Usain Bolt. Or if there are plans for a plane named for the Grenadian gold medallist, Kirani James?

Apologies if this is too inflammable a topic to carry onboard this thread!  

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: westindian425
Posted 2012-08-13 14:50:58 and read 5752 times.

Quoting voodoo (Reply 216):
I don't suppose 'Caribbean' AL has a plane already named Usain Bolt. Or if there are plans for a plane named for the Grenadian gold medallist, Kirani James?

That is actually not a bad idea! I think that would be a nice gesture for the people of Jamaica and Grenada!

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-13 18:37:33 and read 5706 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 215):

On the two occasions I used 526/527 it was at least 90% full and about 10-15 pax remained onboard to continue to POS. On the return it was similar. Yesterday a relative traveled JFK-GEO with 527 and said that there wasn't an empty seat in sight and just about 20 pax continued to POS.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-13 19:53:39 and read 5672 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 209):
LI isnt going any where but the small amount that DOM is putting in doesnt address the significant losses that they had this year. Maybe with Redjet out of the way with higher airfares the rest of this year will be better, And when the new planes replace the oldest ones their maintenance expenses will drop.
Quoting N312RM (Reply 205):
Didn't Dominica government invest some EC$8m in LI a few months ago? All the talk about LI going out of business is, in my opinion, a lot of baloney. It is too important a tool in the development of EC economies to be shut down.

I am not sure if they actually made the investment as of yet. I believe that St Lucia Government is also planning to invest in LIAT

Quoting N312RM (Reply 205):
BTW, KX GCM-PTY is doing very poorly. I suspect that it will not return after flights cease for the traditionally slow period from September to November.

I strongly believe that they should either code share with CM or The Government should look at getting CM to operate a couple of flights.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 215):
Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 210):

Correct the reason is because CAL gets fuel cheaper in POS, with negates the expense of returning the flight to POS and crew out.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 218):

The route has been a success even with the competition, loads so far a reported to be around 76% from since its inception. The route will be kept year round and should be loaded when CAL actually receives its 767 and approved.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2012-08-13 21:48:20 and read 5666 times.

Quoting voodoo (Reply 216):
I see the Trinidad gold medallist Keshorn Walcott is getting a CAL plane named after him.

Copy cats  


Antigua St. John's - Regional carrier LIAT could name one of its aircraft after Grenadian Kirani James, the OECS' first gold medalist at the Olympic Games.

That's if Antigua & Barbuda Prime Minister Baldwin Spencer has his way.

The country's leader made a case for this to be done in his maiden address to the OECS Assembly on Friday, hours after LIAT announced it would be give a "fitting tribute" to the 19-year-old athlete.

Spencer, the leader of one of the airline's major shareholder governments, said James is deserving of the honour, describing him as a bright promise of the future of OECS athletics.

"Kirani's performance makes us proud as one people of the sub-region," he said, receiving applause from the dozens of people present.

"In order to underscore and give prominence to the significance of Kirani's accomplishments and its meaning to the sub-region in particular and the Caribbean in general, I am therefore recommending as fitting tribute that one of the symbols of our unity, LIAT, names one of its aircraft ‘Kirani James’."

Read more: http://www.caribarena.com/antigua/ne...s-gold-medalist.html#ixzz23UbwkbFN

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-08-14 07:23:31 and read 5559 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 219):
I strongly believe that they should either code share with CM or The Government should look at getting CM to operate a couple of flights.

Code-share w/CM isn't enough if CM can't sell to/from GCM on its website.
If GCM is interested to keep a link with CM hub, the island government should immediately work a deal w/CM so it'll be PTY-GCM route operated by CM on behalf of KX, not a CM code-share on a KX flight.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-14 10:39:43 and read 5492 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 219):
Correct the reason is because CAL gets fuel cheaper in POS, with negates the expense of returning the flight to POS and crew out.

That is some savings. Any clue on the dep and arr times when CAL's 763's come onboard?

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 219):
The route has been a success even with the competition, loads so far a reported to be around 76% from since its inception. The route will be kept year round and should be loaded when CAL actually receives its 767 and approved.

That is good news. How do you see CAL's 763's doing in terms of loads during the off peak? CAL used the 762's initially and changed to the 763's for the high traffic summer season. I am happy now with CAL's a/c we will get a Business Class, as Omni's 763's to GEO are all economy.

I know you had a discussion about this, but no plans for a YYZ-GEO nonstop with CAL's 763's? Even during peak season? Maybe for the Christmas? I know the Canadians VFR's are clamouring for it.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-14 11:06:13 and read 5475 times.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 218):

Not surprised that few remain to POS as there is a 90 minute stop in GEO so its a very long trip for them. The flight might be useful to deal with excess bags from other flights and cargo on the GEO POS as the plane will be quite light. Gld that the loads are good. Obviously DL is now being creamed with BW offering nonstops.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 219):

Ralph Gonsalves was "reminding" StL that they havent invested in LI yet. I assume that DOM has to "find" the cash before they invest. Maybe they will need to gradually invest.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 222):

It will be interesting to see the 767 utliization. 3X to LGW, 3X JFK GEO POS. Still room for other flights. Maybe YYZ?

Also the 526/7 most likely will have to operate with a different schedule to allow better utlization of crews. Maybe th/fr/sa northb ound with the same overnight service and a morning departure southbound with a crew change in both directions at GEO to prevent an overnight at JFK. Apparently the departure times are favored by the passengers as it gives them flexibility.

As I dont expect new routes this means that BW will no longer have to wetlease from Omni during peak periods unless there is an unscheduled breakdown.

Quoting voodoo (Reply 216):

Not a bad idea given that Usain Bolt is as close to being the "hero" of this Oympics (Behind the American Phelps) a sany and has definitely put Jamaica on the map. Also good PR given the tortured relationship that BW still has with thye Jcan traveling public.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-14 12:14:14 and read 5451 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 223):
Not surprised that few remain to POS as there is a 90 minute stop in GEO so its a very long trip for them. The flight might be useful to deal with excess bags from other flights and cargo on the GEO POS as the plane will be quite light. Gld that the loads are good. Obviously DL is now being creamed with BW offering nonstops.

An associate said he used the 527/526 flight JFK-POS-JFK strictly because he got a good fare. He was willing to deal with the waiting time.

The woman sitting next to me, going JFK-POS was returning on an emergency, so she took the first available flight. I am assuming that those would be the pax using 526/527 JFK-POS return, or those that just want to get to POS during the high season, and there being no seats available anywhere else. My advice to them is take a vacation in GEO and then proceed to POS.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 223):
It will be interesting to see the 767 utliization. 3X to LGW, 3X JFK GEO POS. Still room for other flights. Maybe YYZ?

Since there will be 2x763's then I can see even more available room for other flights. If EZjet does well on the YYZ flight I can see BW doing that route with their 763's. I think the YYZ would need a 762 or 752, but I am no expert.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-14 12:28:06 and read 5438 times.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 224):

Well we had a lengthy discussion on a YYZ GEO nonstop. I guess that will happen depending on whether there are route rights, and whether BW perceives that they are losing market share to Ezjet. Maybe they feel less compelled to respond as there isnt a third carrier on that route, so they might feel that there is room for two, and are willing to take a chance that EZjet collapses at some point.

Clearly the market does exist. If not year round then definitely at peak times, but that is a decision for BW to make.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-15 10:31:28 and read 5216 times.

Guys, is there an update on LIAT's aircraft replacement program? Which aircraft type will be selected, when is the first aircraft to be delivered and on which routes will these new aircraft be deployed first?

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: caribbean484
Posted 2012-08-16 08:15:24 and read 5029 times.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 222):
That is some savings. Any clue on the dep and arr times when CAL's 763's come onboard?

No nothing as yet, I believe they are going to wait until the Omni Contract ends in September to make the roster available. I honestly believe like Guyanam said some time ago that they rotate it on the 424/425 and do instead POS-GEO-JFK-GEO-POS

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 222):
That is good news. How do you see CAL's 763's doing in terms of loads during the off peak? CAL used the 762's initially and changed to the 763's for the high traffic summer season. I am happy now with CAL's a/c we will get a Business Class, as Omni's 763's to GEO are all economy.

I believe that Omni has 1 763 with dual class service and is currently used on the LGW service, but yeah high volume this summer required the use of the single class 763, and they would have been able to sell out very seat rather than the jump in fare to Business class.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 222):
I know you had a discussion about this, but no plans for a YYZ-GEO nonstop with CAL's 763's? Even during peak season? Maybe for the Christmas? I know the Canadians VFR's are clamouring for it.

Well the word in the grapevines are more excitement about JFK than YYZ, no doubt someday near they can give a once weekly YYZ-GEO.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 223):
Not surprised that few remain to POS as there is a 90 minute stop in GEO so its a very long trip for them. The flight might be useful to deal with excess bags from other flights and cargo on the GEO POS as the plane will be quite light. Gld that the loads are good. Obviously DL is now being creamed with BW offering nonstops.

It will be interesting to see, DL seems to be wanting to compete on the market but like they did POS, they build up then left with 30 days notice.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 221):
If GCM is interested to keep a link with CM hub, the island government should immediately work a deal w/CM so it'll be PTY-GCM route operated by CM on behalf of KX, not a CM code-share on a KX flight.

  

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-16 10:24:35 and read 5003 times.

Quoting caribbean484 (Reply 227):
No nothing as yet, I believe they are going to wait until the Omni Contract ends in September to make the roster available. I honestly believe like Guyanam said some time ago that they rotate it on the 424/425 and do instead POS-GEO-JFK-GEO-POS

Sorry to flog this to death, but your suspicion is 424/425 with the 738? Would that a/c be able to do that route comfortably, in your opinion? If I remember correctly, Travelspan used a 738 from Excel to do that route once. Maybe then the 763's during peak.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-16 10:47:54 and read 4992 times.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 228):

No I think he means on certain days the 425 will operate JFK GEO via POS and on others the 767 will fly to POS via GEO. This way that flight will be crewed exactly as how the 425 is, I assume no overnight in NYC. The existing schedule makes no sense if the plane is based in POS.

The Guyanese in YYZ will be overjoyed if/when BW starts a YYZ GEO POS, now that they have the equipment to run that route. 1X will be fine I suspect, even if only during peaks. At least it will give these travelers alternate options for travel on BW to reduce a potential flight to Ezjet for those who prefer nonstops.

DL views GEO as a high yield route so if yields drop they are out of there. That will release price pressure on BW which will then become the premium carrier as many will not trust Ezjet.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-08-16 11:51:22 and read 4961 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 223):
Obviously DL is now being creamed with BW offering nonstops.

Proof please?

Quoting guyanam (Reply 229):
DL views GEO as a high yield route so if yields drop they are out of there. That will release price pressure on BW which will then become the premium carrier as many will not trust Ezjet.

That is simply not true...it is not a straight line cause and effect....assuming enough traffic level is there to support both carriers....a level of equilibrium should be reached. Now if BW is dumping capacaity then that is another story....

but I just looked at the LFs and avg ticket price for the last 2 weeks for DL.....it is nowhere near the "creamed" you speak of.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: andrefranca
Posted 2012-08-16 15:32:00 and read 4912 times.

"What about that crash report?
By Vernon Khelawan Thursday, August 16 2012

AFTER more than a year, regional aviation observers are questioning the non-appearance of an “official report” on the Caribbean Airlines (CAL) crash of July 30 2011 at the Cheddi Jagan International Airport in Guyana. Although the aircraft split in two, there were a few injuries but no fatalities.

The closest thing to a report were excerpts from a “preliminary” report published in that prestigious United States newspaper, the Wall Street Journal at the end of April last. Part of that report was carried in the Business Day of May 03 2012.

The article quoted from two interviews with the Head of Guyana’s Civil Aviation Authority, Zulfikar Mohammed and claimed the preliminary report pointed to pilot error as the cause of the accident. The report added that crash investigators believed excessive speed and other suspected lapses in landing procedures caused the aircraft, with 163 passengers aboard, to skid off the runway, which is the shortest of all the destinations served by CAL’s jet fleet.

According to the Wall Street Journal article, industry and government officials hinted that the preliminary findings by investigators pointed to pilot error, rather than mechanical or other system malfunctions.

Guyana is officially in charge of the investigations, the United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and the US aircraft manufacturer Boeing, provided great assistance to the Guyanese authorities, with the NTSB having an unusually large contingent of seven persons during the initial investigations, for a crash that accounted for not one single death. One industry observer said the incident was relatively straightforward and he was at a loss to understand why it was taking so long for a final report on the crash to be released. He added the purpose of an accident investigation was “to determine both the proximate cause of the accident (whether pilot error or otherwise) as well as the cause of such cause.”

Giving an example, he said, “If it was pilot error, was it attributable to deficiencies in Caribbean Airlines’ crew training? Did the CAL simulator have a visualisation of a late night landing in mist at Georgetown in its system; and were the pilots trained on such tricky landings specifically?”

He described as “deplorable” the fact that for such a simple incident, since the aircraft, for all intents and purposes was intact, as were both black boxes (FRD and CVR), why has it been allowed to rest for more than a year with no interim conclusion and recommendations to correct the deficiencies behind it?

He added that it was well below the standard which the public has a right to expect. It was their safety that was put at risk in the incident and continues to be at risk until the causes are identified and measures put in place to minimise the possibility of a recurrence.

Meanwhile senior officials at Iere House, Piarco, Headquarters of Caribbean Airlines said they had not heard anything about a final report, neither have they received any official notification that one was on the way. They did confirm however, that both the pilot and the co-pilot had not resumed flying. It is understood however, that the co-pilot was pursuing other career options. They refused any further comment.

Ramesh Lutchmedial, Director General of the TTCAA, when asked about the final report told Business Day “the final report is being written by the Guyanese authorities as we speak”. He forecast that it should be released and become available to the public by November 2012."

Source: http://www.newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,164878.html

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-16 16:17:17 and read 4888 times.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 229):
DL views GEO as a high yield route so if yields drop they are out of there. That will release price pressure on BW which will then become the premium carrier as many will not trust Ezjet.

My prejudices aside, you believe people view DL as the premium carrier? I am surprised that EZjet is still flying and expanding, they must be subsidized. Without any scientific proof I believe that BW will do well on a YYZ route. There are many investments from Canada, Manganese, Gold, and Oil plus VRF's.

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: GUYAIR707
Posted 2012-08-16 16:21:21 and read 4881 times.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 231):

I read this article and had to laugh. This guy might as well just say the GCAA is incompetent rather than "beating around the bushes". He should have told us who the industry observer is, or is he just making the observations himself?

GUYAIR707

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: guyanam
Posted 2012-08-16 17:26:43 and read 4857 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 230):

Ezjet has entered the market but BW seems to be doing OK. Both c484 and guyair confirm decent loads.

Delta charging USD 540 r/t in mid Sept when they used to charge USD 200 more. Something is up. A new competitor entered. BW introduced nonstops and low fares. DL had to match to keep market share. And I do mean match as BW offers the same fare as does DL.

In the meantime I havent heard any complaints about airfares for a LOOOOOONG time.

Looking at seats LF in late August is not the time to check as this is one of the busiest periods, folks from both ends rushing to take their vacations before school starts. GEO JFK is a very heavy VFR route, what with 200k Guyanese living in the NY area.

DL is accustomed to high yields on the GEO. Will they be interested if they must charge much less? Well they exited POS when that market became low yield.

BTW I have a client who is a frequent traveler to GEO from JFK. He stopped flying DL because he thinks that their service to GEO is an insult. He endures POS instead. Most assuredly he will love it when BW uses their own planes and crews on the nonstop.

DL used to own that route as they had the only nonstops. As BW increased its service DL lost share and now that 3 carriers do nostops DL must cut fares while it decides how long it will remain on this route.

Quoting GUYAIR707 (Reply 232):

If DL is out there will be only one premium carrier and that will be BW. Before Ez came in BW and DL had their own corners of the market. I agree with you that DL isnt highly thought of and used to have market share because they had the only nonstops.

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: A388
Posted 2012-08-17 04:47:24 and read 4730 times.

I started a separate thread abouth this as it has been discussed several times in the past, KL will start A330 flights to the Caribbean starting this winter season (October 28th). The frequencies are as follows (qouting member HB-IWC):

Aruba will have 5 weekly A332 operating AMS AUA BON AMS

Bonaire will see 5 weekly A332 operating AMS AUA BON AMS and 1 weekly A332 AMS CUR BON AMS

Curacao will see 4 weekly terminator B744, 3 weekly B744 on AMS SXM CUR AMS and 1 weekly A332 AMS CUR BON AMS

St Maarten will see 3 weekly B744 as AMS SXM CUR AMS

Havana will see 3 weekly terminators with MD11


Finally something new from KL to CUR!!!

A388

Topic: RE: Caribbean Aviation- The Centurion Thread
Username: BW424
Posted 2012-08-17 12:22:42 and read 4621 times.

New forum up. Sorry for the lack of input over the past few weeks. Been extremely busy!

Olympic Glory - Caribbean Aviation 101* (by BW424 Aug 17 2012 in Civil Aviation)


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