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Topic: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: CV880
Posted 2012-09-01 16:22:50 and read 7641 times.

The 12th 744 in cabin modifications will depart SIN on 04Sep for NRT. This will leave 2 in mods and 2 others to be done. Completion date is around mid November.

Ship 6309 is sked to enter modification on 04Sep and 6315 should be finished within 3 weeks. This will leave ships 6316 and 6313 to enter mods towards the end of Sept and beginning of Oct.

The new configuration of 48C 42EC 286Y is nose to tail AVOD.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2012-09-01 16:27:15 and read 7633 times.

They're really making a nice dent in the fleet with these mods. Good to see they are getting them done so quick. They were badly needed IMO.
Blue

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: LY777
Posted 2012-09-02 13:50:13 and read 6518 times.

DL is doing a wonderful work with its fleet

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-09-02 14:33:40 and read 6088 times.

I think it is great that DL actually went ahead with the 747 modifications. Makes their product much more competitive.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: ZschocheImages
Posted 2012-09-02 14:44:17 and read 5968 times.

Great to hear! I hope they fly the 744 for many years to come, much like NW held onto the DC-10. Did DL make a mistake though by not moving to a true 3 class layout like many others, including now UA and AA?

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-09-02 14:48:39 and read 5909 times.

Quoting ZschocheImages (Reply 4):
Did DL make a mistake though by not moving to a true 3 class layout like many others, including now UA and AA?

I wonder if it would be worth it? When we first started flying, transatlantic, the Tristars had three classes of service and I was flying non-rev quite often, internationally. You could count the revenue pax flying in F on one hand in all the flights I took. DL, obviously looked at this and determined that it was NOT worth it and that's when Business Elite was born.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: ZschocheImages
Posted 2012-09-02 15:08:36 and read 5700 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 5):

I tend to agree. I just was curious about what other people's opinions were. All of the new first/bus products are very nice, but it seems as if each airline has a different idea of what will work the best in the long term. The WSJ had a great article about that very topic several weeks back.

It's been interesting to see the evolution of first class travel, considering as few as 10 years ago almost everyone had the same general layout.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: klkla
Posted 2012-09-02 19:09:27 and read 4766 times.

Quoting ZschocheImages (Reply 4):
Did DL make a mistake though by not moving to a true 3 class layout like many others, including now UA and AA?

AA is moving away from three class. Their current 47 777-200ERs are going to be converted to two class. Only the twelve new 777-300ERs will be three class. All their 767's are two class.

UA has not added any three class aircraft since merging with CO. New 787's will be two class.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: AA94
Posted 2012-09-02 21:26:04 and read 4634 times.

Quoting klkla (Reply 7):
AA is moving away from three class. Their current 47 777-200ERs are going to be converted to two class. Only the twelve new 777-300ERs will be three class. All their 767's are two class.

Right on all counts except for the last one. AA's 762s that fly Flagship Service routes (JFK-SFO/LAX) are configured with three classes, and the A321s that replace them will also be configured with three-class service.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: klkla
Posted 2012-09-03 13:47:24 and read 4113 times.

Quoting AA94 (Reply 8):
Right on all counts except for the last one. AA's 762s that fly Flagship Service routes (JFK-SFO/LAX) are configured with three classes, and the A321s that replace them will also be configured with three-class service.

While technically true the first class on the AA762 is really a glorified domestic type first class seat. It's a very retro (antiquated) set up that will truly bring you back to what is was like flying in the Reagan era. I forgot about the A321's but that's a ways off and I have a feeling they will end up with a two class product similar to UA's new PS service with an internation type business seat and no first class when all is said and done.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: FL787
Posted 2012-09-03 13:58:40 and read 4077 times.

6316 goes in the shop around the 13th.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: jblake1
Posted 2012-09-03 15:22:02 and read 3938 times.

Flew a mod 744 to Tel Aviv back in June. It was like stepping onto a sparkling brand new airplane. Was ultra modern and comfortable.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: CV880
Posted 2012-09-03 15:24:23 and read 3929 times.

Quoting jblake1 (Reply 11):
Flew a mod 744 to Tel Aviv back in June. It was like stepping onto a sparkling brand new airplane. Was ultra modern and comfortable.

It would be nice if DL would put the 763-ER's into mods, 3 at a time, especially in the upcoming slow season.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: luv2fly
Posted 2012-09-03 15:26:06 and read 3919 times.

I think they should really offer a premium economy that was more than a few extra inches of space.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: TLHFLA
Posted 2012-09-03 15:28:34 and read 3907 times.

The only current scheduled route I could find with the old configuration is DTW-NRT. Glad to see the quick progress! I saw one taxi while dropping a friend off at the new International Terminal in ATL yesterday. It's good to see a Delta 744 again in ATL!

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: bennett123
Posted 2012-09-03 15:50:52 and read 3856 times.

My (very rough) take on the price of the different classes is as follows;

Economy
Business (Economy x 1.5)
First (Economy x 4)

Assuming that you are paying your own fare, then it seems to me that you would go Economy for short haul, and possibly Business for long haul.

Clearly if you are on business, then the firm decides, (but firms do not seem to have the travel budgets that they used to).

In conclusion, is there really going to be a big enough market for First Class to make it worth doing?.

After all, if you have megabucks then you will take a Bizjet anyway.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: CV880
Posted 2012-09-03 15:56:42 and read 3842 times.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 15):
In conclusion, is there really going to be a big enough market for First Class to make it worth doing?.

After all, if you have megabucks then you will take a Bizjet anyway.

Agreed. F is not worth the price unless one has $$ to burn. Then there are the deadheading crews/non revs in first unless UA & AA have cut that out.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-09-03 16:02:28 and read 3823 times.

Quoting CV880 (Reply 16):
Agreed. F is not worth the price unless one has $$ to burn. Then there are the deadheading crews/non revs in first unless UA & AA have cut that out.

Even when DL had F, BizElite and Economy, the best that non-revs could do was BizElite on international.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: CV880
Posted 2012-09-03 16:06:40 and read 3807 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
Even when DL had F, BizElite and Economy, the best that non-revs could do was BizElite on international.

My next door neighbors were riding F class (internationl) whenever they could (AA).

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-09-03 16:10:39 and read 3793 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):

Even when DL had F, BizElite and Economy, the best that non-revs could do was BizElite on international.

Uh, I made a slight mistake, here.........when DL still had F, internationally, there was no BizElite, yet.....it was First, Biz and Economy........when F disappeared, BizElite was born....a combo of F and Biz.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2012-09-03 16:37:09 and read 3739 times.

Quoting CV880 (Reply 12):
It would be nice if DL would put the 763-ER's into mods, 3 at a time, especially in the upcoming slow season.

That is exactly the plan, with an estimated completion by the end of 2013. At the same time, the A330 mods should begin next year with a 2014 completion.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: Rwy04LGA
Posted 2012-09-03 16:56:12 and read 3695 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 19):
BizElite was born....a combo of F and Biz.

I heard it was F service in a J seat.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 20):
That is exactly the plan, with an estimated completion by the end of 2013. At the same time, the A330 mods should begin next year with a 2014 completion.

Keep climbing!

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-09-03 17:11:27 and read 3663 times.

Quoting Rwy04LGA (Reply 21):
I heard it was F service in a J seat.

I suppose you could call it that, but, since I never flew F on an international flight, I couldn't tell you for sure.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: questions
Posted 2012-09-03 17:45:27 and read 3593 times.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
DL is doing a wonderful work with its fleet

They are making progress but I would not call it wonderful. It's slow and the new product are base models and the selected materials are cheap and cold looking, specifically in the premium cabins. The UA/CO and new AA hard products are nicer.

What "wonderful work" has been done with the nine versions of the 757 other than covering old seats with "signature blue" leather seat covers and adding wifi?

The 767s are going through mods at a snails pace. By the time they are complete, they will start being retired and DL will be painting them in a new livery.

And... the A330s? How about the A319s/320s?

Quoting jblake1 (Reply 11):
Flew a mod 744 to Tel Aviv back in June. It was like stepping onto a sparkling brand new airplane. Was ultra modern and comfortable.

Really? How were the ultra modern overhead bins and lavs? I agree the planes look a lot better and are more comfortable, but take a look at the LH 747-8 and tell us how they compare.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 13):

I think they should really offer a premium economy that was more than a few extra inches of space.

I agree. I think there is a market for Economy Comfort -- a name that does not imply your standard offering is Economy Uncomfortable would have been better. I also think there is a market for a world class premium economy product, EconomyElite.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: KingAir200
Posted 2012-09-03 18:10:24 and read 3528 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
The UA/CO

At least all of DL's new BE seats have direct aisle access, something that COdbaUA doesn't have, as far as I know of.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-09-03 18:15:51 and read 3736 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
The 767s are going through mods at a snails pace. By the time they are complete, they will start being retired and DL will be painting them in a new livery.

And... the A330s? How about the A319s/320s?

Maybe this will answer your question.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 20):
That is exactly the plan, with an estimated completion by the end of 2013. At the same time, the A330 mods should begin next year with a 2014 completion.




As for the A319s/320s, I really don't know if there IS a plan to refurbish these.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2012-09-03 18:17:05 and read 3766 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
The UA/CO and new AA hard products are nicer.

Not a chance. AA, definitely. COdbaUA, not a chance. Their 767's are 2-1-2, DL's are to become 1-2-1. UA's 777's are 2-2-2 or 2-4-2, DL's are 1-2-1.

Direct aisle access from every seat in premium is a big selling point, one that UA/CO is sorely lacking.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
What "wonderful work" has been done with the nine versions of the 757 other than covering old seats with "signature blue" leather seat covers and adding wifi?

Why dump a ton of money into them when you have 739ER's on the way that will replace a lot of them?? Obviously if DL doesn't see ROI in the timeframe between now and their retirement, they will not do the mods.

Wifi across the entire mainline fleet is also huge. Something UA cannot boast about its own fleet.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
And... the A330s?

Getting 744-style premium seats after the 767's finish their mod work. Right now their utilization is far too high to remove even one ship from the active rotation.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
How about the A319s/320s?

Will be replaced in the near to mid future with NEO or MAX - again, an issue of ROI. Apparently you feel money grows on trees.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
Really? How were the ultra modern overhead bins and lavs?

To 99.9% of customers, they will notice the fantastic new lie-flat seats and entertainment system. To you, the 0.1%, it seems you're more dazzled by overhead bins.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
but take a look at the LH 747-8 and tell us how they compare.

Good point. If you're not #1, why play the game at all?!  

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2012-09-03 18:34:18 and read 3837 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
And... the A330s? How about the A319s/320s?
Quoting mayor (Reply 25):
As for the A319s/320s, I really don't know if there IS a plan to refurbish these.

The focus right now is on the international fleet. The A330s will be getting the same flat bed Weber Cirrus seats in BusinessElite, while Y will be getting the B/E Aerospace Pinnacle seats with Panasonic Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors.

Seat/IFE mods for the domestic fleet is currently on hold due to high fuel prices, however, the 739ERs will have nose-to-tail AVOD, also with the Eco 9i monitors in B/E Aerospace Pinnacle Y seats (not sure what model of seat will be used for domestic F).

[Edited 2012-09-03 18:35:52]

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: AA94
Posted 2012-09-03 18:50:44 and read 3774 times.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 26):
Direct aisle access from every seat in premium is a big selling point, one that UA/CO is sorely lacking.

Agreed. I love having my window seat, and direct aisle access gives me the best of both worlds. Having to climb over a sleeping stranger on a long-haul flight is a situation I'd like to avoid if possible.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-09-03 18:55:56 and read 3765 times.

Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 26):

To 99.9% of customers, they will notice the fantastic new lie-flat seats and entertainment system. To you, the 0.1%, it seems you're more dazzled by overhead bins.

Exactly. And unless you're using the lavs for a "library" as at home, most people aren't going to notice if they're "ultramodern" or not.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-09-03 19:03:33 and read 3767 times.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 15):
My (very rough) take on the price of the different classes is as follows;

Economy
Business (Economy x 1.5)
First (Economy x 4)

how expensive that economy ticket you're buying ? for NYC-HKG, business is routinely 4-5x economy for 1-stop options and up to 7-8x for the nonstop option ... year-round

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: CX747
Posted 2012-09-09 13:14:06 and read 3004 times.

One main difference between Delta's 747-400s and Lufthansa's 747-8s is the fact that the Delta metal is paid for!

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: BE77
Posted 2012-09-09 13:32:39 and read 2925 times.

Quoting jblake1 (Reply 11):
Flew a mod 744 to Tel Aviv back in June. It was like stepping onto a sparkling brand new airplane. Was ultra modern and comfortable.

And generally, other than people reading this post, most people seeing the interior are going to think 'new plane', and be impressed by how modern DL's fleet is, etc. Great bang for the buck on doing the refurbs for sure!
Even knowing the difference, when AC did the refurb of the A32x fleet it sure made them a lot 'nicer' and a lot of people thought they were in a 'new' airplane. They have been aging fairly well too, actually.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: klkla
Posted 2012-09-09 14:59:38 and read 2740 times.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
and the new product are base models and the selected materials are cheap and cold looking, specifically in the premium cabins.

I agree they look somewhat cheap in photos but I flew both 767-400 and 777-200LR last week in BizElite. In person the three tone blue-gray-white scheme doesn't look that bad and the colors are calming.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
The UA/CO and new AA hard products are nicer.

UA is drab and gray. As mentioned by others not having direct aisle access is not good. 2-4-2 in business on 777 is completely unacceptable IMO.

As for AA, nobody has seen it in person yet, just computer generated images. We will have to wait until November to judge.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 24):
At least all of DL's new BE seats have direct aisle access, something that COdbaUA doesn't have, as far as I know of.

  

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2012-09-09 15:23:23 and read 2673 times.

There was a Q&A very recently (maybe the past 2 weeks) about the slow-down of the ER mods. The original plan was for 2Q13 but looks to be about 4Q13 if not 1Q14. The reason given was supplier issues with the IFE system being used on the refurbished 763ERs. Apparently, that{s finally been ironed out and they should be back on schedule this fall into the winter.

Quoting questions (Reply 23):
What "wonderful work" has been done with the nine versions of the 757 other than covering old seats with "signature blue" leather seat covers and adding wifi?

What else needs to be done to ac that are pushing 15-18 years across the board and are slated to be retired over the next 5 years or so???  
Quoting questions (Reply 23):
The 767s are going through mods at a snails pace. By the time they are complete, they will start being retired and DL will be painting them in a new livery.

See above. All 58 (59) will be completed in 3-4 quarters. No where near the target retirement date of 2020  
Quoting questions (Reply 23):
And... the A330s? How about the A319s/320s?

The masses seem to be content with a clean cabin and wifi for their ss release.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: sonomaflyer
Posted 2012-09-09 15:31:40 and read 2624 times.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 15):
My (very rough) take on the price of the different classes is as follows;

Economy
Business (Economy x 1.5)
First (Economy x 4)

I wish this was the true measure of prices on the long haul flights I purchase. On the markets I frequent, Business is about 5x economy. First is usually 3x of Business. UA, DL and AA don't have a premium economy product. They are happy to charge $100-120 on a long haul flight for about 4-6" of added leg room with the same seat and catering as Economy (DL does have free wine/beer though).

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: CV880
Posted 2012-09-09 18:12:03 and read 2393 times.

Quoting CV880 (Thread starter):
The 12th 744 in cabin modifications will depart SIN on 04Sep for NRT. This will leave 2 in mods and 2 others to be done. Completion date is around mid November.

The 13th modified 744, , ship 6315, N675NW, is supposed to be out Sept16 with ship 6316, N676NW, taking it's place. This leaves 2 in mods and one to enter mods (N673US) in early October.

Topic: RE: DL 744 Mods- 75% Complete (12 Of 16)
Username: Rwy04LGA
Posted 2012-09-10 06:06:58 and read 2136 times.

Quoting BE77 (Reply 32):
most people seeing the interior are going to think 'new plane', and be impressed by how modern DL's fleet is, etc. Great bang for the buck on doing the refurbs for sure!

If it looks like a new plane and it smells like a new plane, it must be a new plane!

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 35):
UA, DL and AA don't have a premium economy product

Delta has 'Economy Comfort'.    Isn't 'premium economy' an oxymoron?   


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