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Topic: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-09-16 03:24:14 and read 26034 times.

Quote:

Lufthansa management will present a strategy update to the supervisory board on Wednesday including plans for a new European low-cost airline, WirtschaftsWoche said in an advance extract of its Monday edition

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...nsa-strategy-idUSL5E8KF0WI20120915



I think this is good news. Mainline LH is obviously to expensive to use on intra european routes which are almost always less then 2 hours flying.

Question is, where will this airline be based? Munich would be my preference since it has no Ryanair or Easyjet base nearby.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: finnishway
Posted 2012-09-16 03:26:02 and read 26049 times.

What is wrong with Germanwings?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-09-16 03:31:27 and read 25992 times.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 1):
What is wrong with Germanwings?

Germanwings is not cheap at all. And Germanwings is a German LCC, I think LH is talking about a new European LCC.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: finnishway
Posted 2012-09-16 03:38:36 and read 25928 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
Germanwings is not cheap at all. And Germanwings is a German LCC, I think LH is talking about a new European LCC.

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just change the stategy of Germanwings than establish a new airline?

I don't think running both would be good for their business, but I may be wrong.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-09-16 03:42:07 and read 25886 times.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 3):
Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper just change the stategy of Germanwings than establish a new airline?

Yes, it would be interesting to know what their strategy is regarding Germanwings. Maybe they will turn that into a LH regional?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: airevents
Posted 2012-09-16 03:42:09 and read 25886 times.

The new airline will indeed incorporate Germanwings and LH´s non-hub stations. Question is whether fares necessarily will get cheaper, but the airline apparently hopes to bring production costs down quite a bit.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-09-16 04:11:30 and read 25700 times.

Quoting airevents (Reply 5):
Question is whether fares necessarily will get cheaper

Yes, LCC doesn't have to mean Low fare airline like Wizzair and Ryanair.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: rutankrd
Posted 2012-09-16 05:04:31 and read 25364 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 6):
Yes, LCC doesn't have to mean Low fare airline like Wizzair and Ryanair.

Agreed just another Cost (reduced) centre employing staff with inferior terms, sub contracting ground services to the cheapest tenderer, BOB catering charging for mainline IT services by the hour, and removal of low margin services from Mainline accounts (shoring up those bottom line results) etc.......
This is LCC in its literal meaning not those headline flexible fares operators !

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Qazar
Posted 2012-09-16 05:10:25 and read 25327 times.

What about EuroWings... Aren't they owned, or partly owned by LH?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: na
Posted 2012-09-16 05:18:13 and read 25259 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 6):
Yes, LCC doesn't have to mean Low fare airline like Wizzair and Ryanair.

Well, already now you can fly with LH at the price of Ryanair. At least from Frankfurt it often doesnt make sense to go to "Frankfurt"-Hahn for the additional cost and time lost to get there. I am price conscious, but unless shortterm at busy hours, LH offers a package that alltogether beat even the LCC.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: EY460
Posted 2012-09-16 05:49:02 and read 25100 times.

Maybe they are looking for something very similar to Iberia Express. A company cheaper to run but with a service very similar to the mainline company.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-09-16 07:00:24 and read 24795 times.

Quoting na (Reply 9):
Well, already now you can fly with LH at the price of Ryanair. At least from Frankfurt it often doesnt make sense to go to "Frankfurt"-Hahn for the additional cost and time lost to get there. I am price conscious, but unless shortterm at busy hours, LH offers a package that alltogether beat even the LCC.

LH can indeed have 99 euro return tickets, as does KLM, but the 4 euro my brother just paid for EIN-BUD return was really the amount taken of his prepaid creditcard. And those are the flights im looking for.

Lets say 20 euro max per segment and I call it lowfare.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: wilco737
Posted 2012-09-16 07:03:45 and read 24779 times.

How this LCC will be introduced is not clear yet. But I guess some cheap employees will be hired to save that kind of money. About the rest, I haven't read any details either.
Let's wait and see what Wednesday will bring....


wilco737
  

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: ScottishDavie
Posted 2012-09-16 07:47:37 and read 24504 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 2):
Germanwings is not cheap at all.

Really? The last time I flew EDI-CGN then a few days later CGN-MUC they were cheap enough for me. Personally I rate 4U as one of the best LCCs in Europe and I hope whatever LH has up its sleeve won't spoil a very good product.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: asctty
Posted 2012-09-16 08:27:12 and read 23935 times.

LH never managed to run WW at a profit, so it will be interesting to see what their plans are now.
Is the EU not becoming saturated with low cost carriers? Where can't you go with FR, EZY, Norwegian etc?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-09-16 08:30:25 and read 23843 times.

I hope it's done in a seamless manner, not like Iberia Express.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: ju068
Posted 2012-09-16 08:37:53 and read 23706 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 11):
LH can indeed have 99 euro return tickets, as does KLM, but the 4 euro my brother just paid for EIN-BUD return was really the amount taken of his prepaid creditcard. And those are the flights im looking for.

Lets say 20 euro max per segment and I call it lowfare.

Well I am sure that Ryanair doesn't pay the same airport charges in Budapest (or Eindhoven) as Lufthansa pays in Frankfurt, so comparing the two doesn't make sense.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-09-16 08:41:20 and read 23606 times.

Schadenfreude: watching EU (and Asian) carriers make the same mistakes US carriers made 10-15 years ago. 

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-09-16 09:16:16 and read 22839 times.

Well good luck LH... legacies running their own LCC seems like a good idea but has a horrible track record, idk why, but really:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
watching EU (and Asian) carriers make the same mistakes US carriers made 10-15 years ago. 

  

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: chootie
Posted 2012-09-16 09:37:01 and read 22358 times.

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):
I think this is good news. Mainline LH is obviously to expensive to use on intra european routes which are almost always less then 2 hours flying.

...I don´t know what is so GOOd about it, but in my eyes, it just goes to show how ruthless the management can get. Why does eveyone think that a LCC model is the way out.

If folks only want cheap fares, that is sad enough, but to have each and every airline file suit is pathetic         

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-09-16 09:39:43 and read 22301 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
Well good luck LH... legacies running their own LCC seems like a good idea but has a horrible track record, idk why,

They either fail and get shut down or they succeed, suck traffic from their parent, and then get shut down.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: laolao
Posted 2012-09-16 10:43:00 and read 20795 times.

Maybe we should collect a track record of legacies founding/running a LCC:

Failure/ Re-Integration:
-Germanwings
-bmi baby
-Go
-Lufthansa direkt


Success:
-Jetstar


More ideas?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: KaiTak747
Posted 2012-09-16 10:46:31 and read 20694 times.

I don't understand how this will work. There is a huge amount of competition in Europe (e.g. Ryanair, Easyjet, Air Berlin...etc) and I don't see how LH will be able to cut enough costs to offer a competitive product and make this a success.

Remember, a LCC still needs planes, pilots, FAs, and fuel...etc, which all cost a huge amount of money and there is only so much that you can cut. Keep Germans Wings, they seem to be quite low cost and from what I hear very popular with flyers.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: jonnyclark
Posted 2012-09-16 10:54:57 and read 20476 times.

If i remember correctly, this harks back to the story leaked in Bild back in April...

http://thedesignair.wordpress.com/20...fthansas-new-project-direct-4-you/

...where they state they are going to amalgamate Germanwings and Eurowings, and recreate a brand new low cost carrier. If they can make a European carrier a success, it would be the first legacy carrier to offer a real intra European network of bases. Could be an exciting environment to watch... after all, they may end up improving the services of Ryanair and easyJet through direct competition on routes...

That said, how many legacy carriers really have made a success of a low-cost model.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-09-16 11:39:44 and read 19496 times.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 8):
What about EuroWings... Aren't they owned, or partly owned by LH?

LH owns 49% of Eurowings.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: lhrnue
Posted 2012-09-16 12:54:19 and read 18280 times.

Germanwings is the wrong name for an Europen LCC.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-09-16 13:04:17 and read 18050 times.

Quoting chootie (Reply 19):
If folks only want cheap fares, that is sad enough

What is sad about that? The cheaper the better, the more often we can fly to visit family, go on holiday, and save the company money on business trips.

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 25):
Germanwings is the wrong name for an Europen LCC.

They might use the Eurowings name.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: chootie
Posted 2012-09-16 14:06:23 and read 16676 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 26):
What is sad about that? The cheaper the better, the more often we can fly to visit family, go on holiday, and save the company money on business trips.

....well then go to Mr Oleary or Easyjet and get on with it. Lots of folks want to still have a quality airline and are not pushed by the cheap fares. Just sad when LH,KL,IB etc feel they have to join the "we are the cheapest" bandwagon, and feel the rest of the planet feel the same way. To each his own.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-09-16 14:15:45 and read 16484 times.

Quoting chootie (Reply 27):
Lots of folks want to still have a quality airline and are not pushed by the cheap fares.

Unfortunately for high-cost carriers like LH, not enough passengers care about anything other than price, especially on shorthaul routes in Europe, and those who do care are getting fewer and fewer every year.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-09-16 14:20:05 and read 16287 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
LH owns 49% of Eurowings.

Eurowings is now wholly owned by LH.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-09-16 14:30:40 and read 16100 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 29):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
LH owns 49% of Eurowings.

Eurowings is now wholly owned by LH.

Then they should update their website. It says LH has the majority of voting rights but continues to own 49% of Eurowings shares. Following quoted from their website:

Lufthansa and Eurowings owner Dr. Albrecht Knauf have concluded a voting trust agreement under which Lufthansa acquires a majority of voting rights in Eurowings. No changes are made to the ownership structure at present: Lufthansa continues to hold 49 per cent shares of Eurowings.

[Edited 2012-09-16 15:18:31]

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-09-16 14:41:18 and read 15877 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 30):
Then they should update their website. It says LH has the majority of voting rights but continues to own 49% of Eurowings shares. Following quoted from their website:

I'm basing my comment on what is written under the history section of www.eurowings.de about what occurred last August. But I don't know if they were talking about actual shares or voting rights, my German isn't that good.

[Edited 2012-09-16 14:42:13]

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: finnishway
Posted 2012-09-16 14:48:13 and read 15725 times.

Quoting laolao (Reply 21):

Success:
-Jetstar

Jetstar may be a success, but how did it affect QF? I think QF lost passengers and money to their own competitor, well I don't know is that a good thing or not. At least the financial situation of Qantas could be better.

Quoting chootie (Reply 27):
Just sad when LH,KL,IB etc feel they have to join the "we are the cheapest" bandwagon, and feel the rest of the planet feel the same way.

That is true. Sadly the glamorous days of flying are a thing of the past.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-09-16 16:04:07 and read 14207 times.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 32):
Quoting chootie (Reply 27):
Just sad when LH,KL,IB etc feel they have to join the "we are the cheapest" bandwagon, and feel the rest of the planet feel the same way.

That is true. Sadly the glamorous days of flying are a thing of the past.

But there is a flip side, people can now fly for cheap (not because they choose to be cheap, because they're poor)

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Aesma
Posted 2012-09-16 16:52:52 and read 13341 times.

Would such a low cost show up on LH website when looking for a flight, or would it be separate, like Transavia for AF-KLM ?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-09-16 16:53:04 and read 13364 times.

Quoting finnishway (Reply 32):
Jetstar may be a success, but how did it affect QF?

Actually fairly well. JQ has only replaced QF on low yield tourist routes where QF's high cost structure simply didn't work. While it is true that QF pulled out of a lot of markets post-JQ, and that people therefore suggest that JQ is killing QF, are more realistic way of looking at it is that if it wasn't for JQ then QF would have pulled out anyway and be replaced with a different carrier. At least those passengers and revenue are still within QantasGroup.

I can't precisely say what is unique about JQ, but whatever it was QF did it right

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: VHHYI
Posted 2012-09-16 17:12:12 and read 12978 times.

Quoting laolao (Reply 21):
Success:
-Jetstar

I think it might have helped that Jetstar was based off an already existing LCC (Impulse Airlines) with its own cost base and structure lower than QF mainline (not enough to survive on its own, however).
As I understand it, some of the other LCC attempts by legacies were really just the mainline operation under a different brand.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: jc2354
Posted 2012-09-16 17:26:47 and read 12737 times.

They have already tried this with Lufthansa Italia.

Jack

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Unflug
Posted 2012-09-16 18:00:28 and read 12167 times.

Quoting Polot (Reply 31):
I'm basing my comment on what is written under the history section of www.eurowings.de about what occurred last August. But I don't know if they were talking about actual shares or voting rights, my German isn't that good.

Your German isn't that bad either: they clearly talk about shares and 100% ownership since August 13th 2011.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: oykie
Posted 2012-09-16 22:52:47 and read 8124 times.

Quoting laolao (Reply 21):
More ideas?

SAS Snowflake Airline . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Snowflake

It did not last too long.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
watching EU (and Asian) carriers make the same mistakes US carriers made 10-15 years ago

There is a lot of to learn from the TED, United Express and Song (Delta) experience. They did not succeed. It would probably have been easier for EU companies to not go down this route if they were allowed a chapter 11 type bankruptcy. This would have made it easier to re-organize an existing brand instead of going broke. EU airlines are not immune against reality, and reality is that there are too many airlines with an uncompetitive workforce and unions that do not see the bigger picture. There will be more consolidations and bankruptcies going forward in the EU.

The sad part is that the unions in Europe are allowed to demand unrealistic demands from their employer that in the end kills their employer. If the unions had seen the bigger picture and helped the management transform their airline we would not have a situation where pilots would be contracted from the Isle of Man and everything contracted out of the company.

So I see why LH feel forced to start a new LCC brand instead of finding smarter ways to cut costs. The recent strikes at LH is a bad example of unions killing their own job.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2012-09-16 23:19:49 and read 7862 times.

Quoting laolao (Reply 21):
Failure/ Re-Integration:
-Germanwings
-bmi baby
-Go
-Lufthansa direkt




More ideas?

Ted
Metrojet
Song
Centralwings
Snowflake
Buzz

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-09-16 23:32:55 and read 7706 times.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 40):
Song

I'm not sure you could call Song a failure. It ended up being a sort of testbed and some Song elements are now part of mainline Delta.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: ju068
Posted 2012-09-16 23:35:14 and read 7680 times.

Could we add AnadoluJet to the list of failed ventures?

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: callumm92
Posted 2012-09-17 00:40:24 and read 6884 times.

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 25):
Germanwings is the wrong name for an Europen LCC.

I think it's quite a good idea actually - Germanwings is a good brand and a popular airline. Keeping that identity would be a good move in my opinion. Although obviously the intention is to operate around Europe, why not promote the 'German-ness' of the company? Norwegian does the same thing, and I don't really think it harms them on their routes not involving Norway.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: chootie
Posted 2012-09-17 00:51:22 and read 6789 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 33):
But there is a flip side, people can now fly for cheap (not because they choose to be cheap, because they're poor)

....And have you taken notice to the rif-raf on board aircraft lately?????
And to top it off, they pay rock bottom--but EXPECT to have the same high quality product. LCC and quality seem to be the OXY-MORON of the times ----like I said, plain sad.....       

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Burkhard
Posted 2012-09-17 01:07:51 and read 6586 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 26):
What is sad about that? The cheaper the better, the more often we can fly to visit family, go on holiday, and save the company money on business trips.

Many of our friends here on a.net work for an airline or worked for an airline. They have every good reason on earth to be against this race to the bottom, because they are those who pay for it or have friends who pay for it by lower incomes and worse working conditions.
Then there are many business flyers who are not eager to save companies money, but see flying as a way their company pays them a "luxury" or a status they think they are worth, and do not have to pay taxes for the difference between this "luxuray" and the lowest possible price, these are also a good fraction of users here. Remember there are still companies that allow employees to use miles collected on business for private trips, and countries in which miles do not need to be taxed.
Then there are travel agents who suffer under low ticket costs and the online self booking of tickets.
Only few members here pay their tickets from own taxed money and cannot get a refund from the tax payer as a business expense.


Quoting kl911 (Reply 26):
They might use the Eurowings name.

Difficult to say. the word "Euro" is not so popular these days. Germanwings is fine as long as one end of the fligt is in Germany, but to fly from Poland to Austria not such a good idea.
I would try to keep name and logo as near to Lufthansa as possible, with names like Cityhansa or even Lufthansa European - my reason for it:
Most passengers, even those which are very price sensitive, know and respect the Lufthansa brand, and are willing to pay 10€ more for a ticket on a plane with Lufthansa on it compared to any LCC name. Even with Easyjet a respected name, if a city pair would be served by Easy for 59€ one leg and LH 69€ one leg, I expect LH to get more bookings even if the hard product, an A320 with 16x seats, and service level is the same.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2012-09-17 01:09:56 and read 6590 times.

Germanwings is becoming more and more integrated with Lufthansa, especially on routes to LHR where they operate from secondary cities like Stuttgart with LH focussing on the hubs like MUC, FRA and DUS. Not really a solid basis for an extended LCC??

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-09-17 01:32:07 and read 6346 times.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 46):
Germanwings is becoming more and more integrated with Lufthansa, especially on routes to LHR where they operate from secondary cities like Stuttgart with LH focussing on the hubs like MUC, FRA and DUS. Not really a solid basis for an extended LCC??

well, but that seems to be exactly what the intention is. LH has a choice, cut all the loss making, not hub centred routes or make them profitable, or better said, self sustainable.

What is wrong with that? Let#s wait and see what they come up with and that can be discussed,

At the moment it's fishing in the dark, or, "Spoekenkiekerei".

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: HachikoDog
Posted 2012-09-17 01:35:32 and read 6316 times.

Is it so that in today´s air travel market national carriers are not so profitable? I mean you have to have an idea or a concept for you company: LCC or five star airliner.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-09-17 01:48:45 and read 6127 times.

An LCC sztarts from a clean sheet, legacy carriers have grown structures. SWA is, meanwhile a legacy carrier with grown structures., not too far from other US carriers, who have revised their cost structures taking the path of chapter 11.

LH is far from bankcruptcy, but that's exactly the time when a responsible management has to take measures to stay in that comfortable position. . A responsible union will see that it is better to have a dual structure, with higher paying jobs remaining in main line and lower paying jobs in feeder (where that seems to be already the case) and new ventures that enables to keep routes which otherwise would not pay their way.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: Semaex
Posted 2012-09-17 02:43:18 and read 5562 times.

Quoting lhrnue (Reply 25):
Germanwings is the wrong name for an Europen LCC.

And Southwest is the wrong name for an all-US LCC ... ?  
Quoting jc2354 (Reply 37):
They have already tried this with Lufthansa Italia.

Lufthansa Italia wasn't an LCC at all. It was a company which had good service and closed the vacuum another legacy carrier had left in Milano. The reason LH IT was shut down was because it was interfering with the well-established service of EN, which is also a wholly owned LH subsidiary.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: aeroflop
Posted 2012-09-17 03:14:20 and read 5148 times.

Great! Another thing that the world does not need..... another low cost carrier. Where the only low cost thing is the crew.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: DALCE
Posted 2012-09-17 03:32:38 and read 4987 times.

Although I have doubts that LH will succeed, I believe we should look at a more long term strategy. LH surely recognizes the threats of Norwegian, Easyjet ( bigger airports ) and to a lesser extend Ryanair and Wizzair ( smaller airports ) and eyes for a manner to compete with these airlines to make sure they have to fight for their earns. If they start a LCC with a decent network and servicelevel they can eat parts of the pie currently eaten by the LCC's and making sure the money goes back into LH's pocket. I could see them taking up the fight directly with route pairs similar to the competitions just to make their live harder. In the end the strongest will win, and IF they do it right LH will be the winner and perhaps some of the LCC's will even be terminated, albeit the smaller ones going down first then.


Just my $ 0.02 to the matter

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: skipness1E
Posted 2012-09-17 03:39:53 and read 4956 times.

Let's have short memories and call it Lufthansa Express!

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-09-17 03:43:53 and read 4972 times.

Are the LCCs really the target?

Take STR-LHR, or HAM-LHR, for LH that is spoke to star hub, in other words not really something which is a primary focus. LH wants to feed their hubs and not other carriers. there are other routes from focus cities which are spoke to spoke and thenm take BER, where LH opnes a basket of new spoke to spoke routes to develop the market-.

Some of these routes are, for carriers like BA and AF/KL hub to spoke feeder routes. Now, a carrier can give up the tertiary marlkets, like BA did, or have some fresh isdeas to stay and even grow.

That seems to be the goal. It won'tr be an LCC, it will be a business unit with lower costs.

.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: GT4EZY
Posted 2012-09-17 08:57:04 and read 4413 times.

Quoting aeroflop (Reply 51):
Great! Another thing that the world does not need..... another low cost carrier. Where the only low cost thing is the crew.

I speak from a cabin crew perspective here now. For a new recruit starting out at a UK airline tomorrow, the best paid carrier these days is Easyjet. Junior ranking crew take home between £23K-£24K (30,000 Euro) a year actually flying 10-12 days each month. Crew at the continental bases earn more than that. So whilst overall labour costs can be reduced, it doesn't always mean low pay.

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-09-17 14:48:35 and read 3990 times.

Quoting chootie (Reply 44):

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 33):
But there is a flip side, people can now fly for cheap (not because they choose to be cheap, because they're poor)

....And have you taken notice to the rif-raf on board aircraft lately?????
And to top it off, they pay rock bottom--but EXPECT to have the same high quality product. LCC and quality seem to be the OXY-MORON of the times ----like I said, plain sad.....       

Oh well yeah if they're gonna whine about higher service then they should pay more. If I didn't have such a strong DL bias I'd be travelling on the cheapest fare I could get... I wouldn't care less if I was sitting on a rock as long as I got from A to B without the airline (not outside forces) sucking and causing delay. Maybe for slightly more I'd pay to not sit on a rock, but you'll never see me paying a $49 fare and complaining about small pitch/bad food/etc

Topic: RE: Lufthansa Plans To Start New Low Cost Airline
Username: PezySPU
Posted 2012-09-18 11:57:57 and read 3459 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
watching EU (and Asian) carriers make the same mistakes US carriers made 10-15 years ago.

10-15 years is an extremely long time, especially in this industry. And US market is different than European and Asian markets.

Quoting laolao (Reply 21):
Maybe we should collect a track record of legacies founding/running a LCC:

Sorry, but this is also too generalized. Some of these have been failures due to their respective reasons, not issues with the model. I would not draw conclusions so quickly.

And to be fair, since you mentioned four LCC subsidiaries that didn't work out, here are four that did: Vueling, Transavia, Mango, Nok Air. This just stands to illustrate that ventures of this kind can work. There is no need to point out that there are, truth to be told, more failures than success stories.

Also, I think you would agree that something was learnt from LCC failures, something that could make future ones successful.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 30):
Quoting Polot (Reply 29): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24): LH owns 49% of Eurowings.

Eurowings is now wholly owned by LH.

Then they should update their website. It

As sad as it is, an airline's own website is often a poor source for this type of info.  


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