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Topic: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: skaggs
Posted 2012-10-04 14:53:01 and read 16417 times.

Just heard a rumor from an AA 75/76 pilot that the 757 fleet is grounded.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: flashmeister
Posted 2012-10-04 14:59:27 and read 16393 times.

For what it's worth, the Dallas Morning News airline blog reports that there are a lot of 757 cancellations, but that some trips are still scheduled to operate. Comment from AA is apparently forthcoming.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...-a-lot-of-boeing-757-flights.html/

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2012-10-04 15:04:12 and read 16347 times.

That wouldn't make sense, because only 46 of AA's 100+ 757 fleet has the type of seats involved in the recent incidents. Unless, of course, issues beyond the seats were uncovered, but I don't find that likely. Nothing internal has been reported of a fleet grounding. At any rate, all 46 of those potentially affected 757s have been inspected and have been returned to service.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-10-04 15:05:29 and read 16325 times.

Quote:
4:57PM EST October 4. 2012 - American Airlines says it has finished inspecting 48 of its Boeing 757 jets for possible problems with loose seats.

The company says it fixed the issue, though the carrier declined to say just how many required aircraft corrective maintenance.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...merican-airlines-seat-fix/1613759/

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: DLD9S
Posted 2012-10-04 15:07:27 and read 16281 times.

There are indeed a lot of 757 flights cancelled today: http://flightaware.com/live/fleet/AAL/cancelled

The AA cancellations had gotten much better in the past few days, but so far they have cancelled 68 today.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: AAR90
Posted 2012-10-04 16:12:41 and read 15806 times.

Quoting skaggs (Thread starter):
Just heard a rumor from an AA 75/76 pilot that the 757 fleet is grounded.

Not a fleet grounding.

Only the 48 planes that have the Weber seats are involved (still a lot of planes). The decision was apparently made this morning to have those 48 planes receive another complete inspection of ALL seats in the aircraft before their next revenue flight (reportedly, one plane had a "mix of seat types"). Also inferred in the internal msg was that only certain specific AA maintenance stations have been authorized to conduct this additional inspection so many current AA maintenance stations with the personnel available are NOT conducting these inspections.

The result of this decision is that planes must be ferried to one of these specific AA maintenance stations to have the additional inspection completed, then (probably) ferried to another AA station in order to return to revenue service.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2012-10-04 16:18:15 and read 15728 times.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 5):
Not a fleet grounding.

Only the 48 planes that have the Weber seats are involved (still a lot of planes). The decision was apparently made this morning to have those 48 planes receive another complete inspection of ALL seats in the aircraft before their next revenue flight (reportedly, one plane had a "mix of seat types"). Also inferred in the internal msg was that only certain specific AA maintenance stations have been authorized to conduct this additional inspection so many current AA maintenance stations with the personnel available are NOT conducting these inspections.

The result of this decision is that planes must be ferried to one of these specific AA maintenance stations to have the additional inspection completed, then (probably) ferried to another AA station in order to return to revenue service.

All AA 757 Y seats are made by Weber. The affected seats are the OLD Weber seats that were reconfigured for AA's Main Cabin Extra. The newer Weber 5751-based slimline seats with the winged headrests are not affected.

[Edited 2012-10-04 16:18:48]

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: AAR90
Posted 2012-10-04 16:34:24 and read 15598 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
All AA 757 Y seats are made by Weber. The affected seats are the OLD Weber seats that were reconfigured for AA's Main Cabin Extra. The newer Weber 5751-based slimline seats with the winged headrests are not affected.

Sorry for not being specific enough. I've been off that fleet for almost 15 years so I don't track what's going on there very closely.

Reading between the lines of the Flt Dpt msg; it appears the initial inspections turned up additional "issues" with the seat relocation project that may not be directly related to "not secured" issue. The bottom line is that ALL 757s that got MCE configured are being re-reinspected before their next revenue flight.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-10-04 16:41:09 and read 15553 times.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 7):
The bottom line is that ALL 757s that got MCE configured are being re-reinspected before their next revenue flight.

Before someone makes a snarky/sarcastic post asking how much AA thought they were saving before today's news by having non-AA mechanics do the MCE configurations, I've got a question.

Would AA have had their mechanics check the work done on the seats prior to redeploying the reconfigured aircraft?

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: AAR90
Posted 2012-10-04 17:50:46 and read 15190 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Before someone makes a snarky/sarcastic post asking how much AA thought they were saving before today's news by having non-AA mechanics do the MCE configurations, I've got a question.

Would AA have had their mechanics check the work done on the seats prior to redeploying the reconfigured aircraft?

In a word: yes. The AA maintenance program would have a Quality Assurance inspection performed on all work done... both in-house and outsourced contract work. The "loose seats" issue should have been caught by the QA inspection but obviously was not. OTOH, the re-inspection process apparently revealed additional "issues" in the cabins of those planes not directly related to "loose seats" which is what appears to have prompted this "additional inspection." This additional inspection is for ALL 757s that have been reconfigured to MCE, not just those with reported problems or those worked at in any one location.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-10-04 17:58:04 and read 15142 times.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10):
In a word: yes. The AA maintenance program would have a Quality Assurance inspection performed on all work done

Thank you for your informative and level-headed reply. Much appreciated.   

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-10-04 18:02:17 and read 15124 times.

From WFAA TV in Dallas Thursday evening.

Quote:
Late Thursday, American said the loose seats causing delays and cancellations this week were not the result of human or mechanical failure, as the airline once suspected.

Instead, the airline discovered that worn pins in the seat lock plunger on these 48 aircraft can get stuck in the unlocked position when coffee, soda or juice are spilled on it, essentially letting a row of seats come unhinged from their tracks in the floor.

American said it is adding additional locking mechanisms to the 5,184 pieces in questions to safely secure these seats on the 48 757s.

The repairs will be made once each aircraft lands, the airline said, and should only take a couple hours to complete.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-04 19:03:36 and read 14575 times.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 2):
That wouldn't make sense, because only 46 of AA's 100+ 757 fleet has the type of seats involved in the recent incidents.

It could just be these that are grounded

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 12):
Late Thursday, American said the loose seats causing delays and cancellations this week were not the result of human or mechanical failure, as the airline once suspected.

This sounds like they're blaming the unions  

Either way I'm not taking sides here

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-10-04 19:13:14 and read 14402 times.

Wow this sucks for AA. I think this is legitimately just a seat issue (maybe stemming from more outsourcing, who knows) but it couldn't come at a worse time. They are already having such a hard time

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2012-10-04 19:19:25 and read 14315 times.

This quote from the article confirms the affected seats are the old seats:

Quote:
The airline has used the same seats for 20 years without incident until now, said David L. Campbell, American’s vice president of safety

However, considering that DL's PMDL non-AVOD 752s use the same model of Weber seat, I wonder why seats haven't come loose on DL's aircraft. Perhaps DL cleaned or replaced the plunger mechanisms when DL did their cabin refurbishments in the mid 2000s. The seat covers were not the only thing that was changed with DL's seats, the old paneling (including tray tables) on the seats was brown, while the new paneling is light gray. Also, the black armrest covers were replaced with blue ones, and the ashtrays were removed and covered up as if they were never there.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-10-04 19:24:57 and read 14224 times.

There have been a couple TV news short items on this over the last few hours.

AA publicly isn't blaming anyone, except possible the seat manufacturer. It appears to be one of those little things which only develop into a big thing over time under a special set of circumstances.

Nobody washes out the seat locking pins with distilled water to remove soda, coffee, and other liquid dried on residue.

AA just happened to be the airline where the problem surfaced.

Any other airline with the same seats is going to have to look at their mounts (the other airlines probably already are looking at them) and see how cruddy they have become.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: OB1504
Posted 2012-10-04 19:38:20 and read 14015 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
This sounds like they're blaming the unions

Unless the company said union employees are purposefully spilling drinks on the seat pins, I don't see how AA is blaming them.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: CRFLY
Posted 2012-10-04 19:48:56 and read 13912 times.

These are some cancellations for tomorrow, October 5, as it appears on SABRE:

AA1561/05OCT
MIA 1230P D42
SJO 115P
1FX CANCEL MIA -SJO -RMKS ACCT A/C N5DL OTS *1853
7MIA/AUTO REACCOM CANCELLED FLT SEE N*1561OCT05MIA *1857*C
RCYMG

AA0955/05OCT
MIA 1220P D47
TGU 1240P
1FX CANCEL MIA -TGU -RMKS ACCT A/C N5DL OTS *1849
7MIA/AUTO REACCOM CANCELLED FLT SEE N*0955OCT05MIA *1853*C
RCYMG

AA1256/05OCT
MIA 725A D8
LGA C D5 1015A
1FX CANCEL MIA -LGA -RMKS ACCT A/C N5DL OTS *1847
7MIA/AUTO REACCOM CANCELLED FLT SEE N*1256OCT05MIA *1900*C
RCYMG

AA0518/05OCT
MIA 700A D5
MCO 755A
1FX CANCEL MIA -MCO -RMKS ACCT A/C N640 OTS *1843
7MIA/AUTO REACCOM CANCELLED FLT SEE N*0518OCT05MIA *1900*C
RCYMG

AA0465/05OCT
MIA 745A D49
DFW A29 A A34 950A
1FX CANCEL MIA -DFW -RMKS ACCT A/C N5DN OTS *1659
7MIA/AUTO REACCOM CANCELLED FLT SEE N*0465OCT05MIA *1702*C
RCYMG

AA0452/05OCT
MIA 725A D48
BOS A B28 1030A
1FX CANCEL MIA -BOS -RMKS ACCT A/C N640 OTS *1845
7MIA/AUTO REACCOM CANCELLED FLT SEE N*0452OCT05MIA *1900*C
RCYMG


And it keeps going and going...

Poor people the ones that have to wait hours and hours to be re-booked in MIA and in other stations, waiting for an alternative to get to their destination... Very sad!

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: hugoandres1984
Posted 2012-10-04 19:50:47 and read 13885 times.

There are several Passenger trapped in Miami and New York trying to return to Venezuela for the Presidential Elections they should rent a plane or sipply upgrade to a 777 in order to move those passengers into Venezuela so they can Vote for HCR

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2012-10-04 23:20:46 and read 12206 times.

Quoting CRFLY (Reply 18):
Poor people the ones that have to wait hours and hours to be re-booked in MIA and in other stations, waiting for an alternative to get to their destination... Very sad!

I've been following AA484 [SAN-DFW] which I sometimes fly. Last time on it (last Saturday) it was only an hour late. But me and several other over-60-year-olds literally ran full tilt to get to our connection before the door closed.

In the last seven days, departures on 484 have been averaging 1 to 3 hours late. Yesterday it was even diverted.

However, after last Saturday, I'm ready to speak to my travel department about banning American Airlines altogether.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: WesternDC1010
Posted 2012-10-05 01:21:41 and read 11253 times.

Just got in tonight on AA #266 PHLI - KLAX, a 757-223 N609AA/5ED. No cancellations so far.

[r][o][n]
WesternDC-10-10

[Edited 2012-10-05 02:10:25]

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: hiflyer
Posted 2012-10-05 04:59:46 and read 9681 times.

From AP
"But officials offered a new explanation Thursday, saying that a combination of wear, poor design and even soda spilled into the tracks caused pins to pop out of the grooves."

You mean you take up the seats to reconfig...then put it back down without cleaning the seat tracks? Whoever wrote that work order ought to be handed a small toothbrush and an empty 757.

  

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: bmacleod
Posted 2012-10-05 06:54:06 and read 8511 times.

So is this mainly result of those loose seats or are there more serious issues why AA's grounding some of the 757s?

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: flymia
Posted 2012-10-05 06:58:44 and read 8458 times.

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 22):
So is this mainly result of those loose seats or are there more serious issues why AA's grounding some of the 757s?

Seems like the seats. I am happy MIA-LAX-SLC was more expensive than FLL-LAX-SLC. 737-800 for FLL-LAX, there are a few 757s on MIA-LAX. I am flying tomorow so FLL being cheaper and less of a risk of canceling the flight.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: United1
Posted 2012-10-05 18:55:21 and read 3484 times.

Gunk?

AA says its spilled coffee and pop in the track.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel...an-airlines-seat-tweets/index.html

They actually expect anyone to believe that?

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-10-05 19:09:30 and read 3528 times.

How long would it take to inspect one 757 in this case?

Quoting United1 (Reply 24):
They actually expect anyone to believe that?

Obviously, you've never worked in c-check. I've seen this a lot in the seat tracks. You'd be quite surprised on the stuff we have found during c-checks during my time at AS and F9.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: United1
Posted 2012-10-05 19:29:37 and read 3490 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
Obviously, you've never worked in c-check. I've seen this a lot in the seat tracks. You'd be quite surprised on the stuff we have found during c-checks during my time at AS and F9.

I don't doubt that they find tons of crap in the tracks...but is that really enough to prevent a seat from securing properly to the floor?

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: Antoniemey
Posted 2012-10-05 20:18:25 and read 3466 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 26):
I don't doubt that they find tons of crap in the tracks...but is that really enough to prevent a seat from securing properly to the floor?

Dried sugar residue built up over a period of time is stubborn stuff.

You probably don't want to know what a soda fountain nozzle looks like after even a week or two, much less if cleaning gets put off for awhile...

I have no trouble believing that crud built up in the mounting tracks could cause issues.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-10-05 20:57:33 and read 3379 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 26):
but is that really enough to prevent a seat from securing properly to the floor?

It only takes a tenth of an inch of crud in the right place to make the locking pin look and feel secure, but it to come loose under a load.

That is why AA is taking the time to fit an additional lock to the mechanism.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: United1
Posted 2012-10-05 21:05:19 and read 3352 times.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 28):
It only takes a tenth of an inch of crud in the right place to make the locking pin look and feel secure, but it to come loose under a load.

Fair enough...thanks for the information.

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: DLD9S
Posted 2012-10-06 08:32:51 and read 3113 times.

Wow, CNN is being pretty brutal to AA. This has gone from coverage of the airline's issues to kicking them while they are down. It is like the journalist are taking lost bags of the past out on AA.

"Really? American blames loose seats on spilled beverages"
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel...an-airlines-seat-tweets/index.html

"11 witty and sage airline 'gunk' retorts"
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel...an-airlines-seat-tweets/index.html

"How would you save American Airlines?"
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel...rlines-turnaround-ideas/index.html

"Who wants to fly American Airlines?"
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/01/travel...can-airlines-customers-complaining

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-06 11:21:54 and read 2918 times.

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 30):
Wow, CNN is being pretty brutal to AA. This has gone from coverage of the airline's issues to kicking them while they are down. It is like the journalist are taking lost bags of the past out on AA.

I never liked CNN because of their bias but this is incredibly hilarious   

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-06 12:11:50 and read 2807 times.

Looks more like an Improper job or a deliberate sabotage attempt.
Difficult to believe the reason provided for the Seats to not stay latched....

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: kgaiflyer
Posted 2012-10-06 12:41:07 and read 2755 times.

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 27):
Dried sugar residue built up over a period of time is stubborn stuff.

Geez.

It's a wonder those planes don't have bugs and crawly things.   

Topic: RE: AA 757s Grounded?
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-08 04:58:00 and read 2317 times.

Why dont AA tech services issue a callout to inspect the seat locks post installation after a few hrs.....


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