Here's the rumor of the century:

I was drinking on Mill the other day and was chatting with a FX Pilot who flew the MD-11 for DL and moved over to FX when the MD-11 was retired. He cites his contacts with DL still and said he deadheads quite often with DL.

I know about our own views on pilot rumors but this one was the craziest I've heard in some time.

He said that due to the losses that TN is gaining, DL may purchase a "stake" in TN that would involve them taking control of some of their Assets. The main thing that DL is interested in is the route authority from PPT-LAX-CDG, as well as additional Asia/Pacific routes. The 343 is something that intrigued me, and this pilot had no info on what DL would do with the 343, but he speculated a lot of 767s/330s would be moved to A/Pac for these routes.


I don't know about you, but it sounds wild. If DL does get some stake in TN, 1) how could that be legal? 2) what would actually happen to the 343s 3) would this actually be a good idea?

Have fun with this one, A.net   

PHX787

I think your friend might be using some interesting herbs.

First TN is a French company, and only maximum 49% foreign ownership is allowed.

Second, DL already has defacto route rights for PPT-LAX-CDG. It could launch service on both sectors tomorrow if it wished.

Additionally DL could also operate beyond from PPT to all types of places like Australia or New Zealand with full traffic rights. This is already in the bilateral.

Lastly - the Air France JV already covers these routes. Why Delta needs another airline partner to replicate what it has with AF is comical.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): I was drinking on Mill the other day and was chatting with a FX Pilot who flew the MD-11 for DL and moved over to FX when the MD-11 was retired

I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2): I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

unless he quit working for Delta and went to FX....

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): The main thing that DL is interested in is the route authority from PPT-LAX-CDG, as well as additional Asia/Pacific routes.

Why would DL want to take over a route that loses millions a year and take over an aircraft no one wants? They have better equipment than TN and could fly the route as soon as they loaded it into the system with DL metal.

Stop hanging out with ASU grads on mill .... you want a credible rumor go to Tucson and hang with UofA people  

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2): I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3): unless he quit working for Delta and went to FX....

That's what happened. He said he wanted to continue flying the MD-11 and he said that FX offered better hours for him and his family.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 1):

But then again if they acquire the 49% stake could they have authority over those routes or not?

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 4): Stop hanging out with ASU grads on mill .... you want a credible rumor go to Tucson and hang with UofA people

hahaha well I am in the process of transferring to Japan  

[Edited 2012-10-09 20:34:38]

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5): But then again if they acquire the 49% stake could they have authority over those routes or not?

But as has been explained, why bother? If they wanted to do the route, today, they could.

One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): I was drinking on Mill the other day and was chatting with a FX Pilot who flew the MD-11 for DL

Alot egos on Mill, enough said. Everyone knows everything, espically when they are drinking

Sounds like yet another unfounded a.net rumor. Big surprise.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 4): you want a credible rumor go to Tucson and hang with UofA people

If I want to hang with UofA grads, all I need to do is order a pizza; they're obligated to get it to me in 30 minutes or less.  

Quoting Flaps (Reply 7):

why not? I have seen new hires at Delta go right to the 7ER.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): I don't know about you, but it sounds wild.

Earlier today, a FedEx MD-11 flew directly over me at about 2,000' feet while landing at PDX. Over the engine roar, I could hear the pilots chuckling about some rumor they started in Phoenix about DL buying TN. Oh man, were they having a good time!  

(Part of that story is indeed factual.)

Quoting Flaps (Reply 7): One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 10): why not? I have seen new hires at Delta go right to the 7ER.

He's been with FX for a "few years" he said but he never told me how long he was at DL. He mostly talked of his time at FX.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9): Sounds like yet another unfounded a.net rumor. Big surprise.

Yeah I know it's not something you guys wanna read every day but I simply thought it was hilarious.

my hand to god, he was sober when he told me this too. He was just having dinner at the PF Changs with me while waiting for a deadheader to LAX.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11): (Part of that story is indeed factual.)

   part of that post made my night  


What makes pilots start such crazy rumors? I don't quite get the logic behind half of the ones I read here, especially this one.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12): He's been with FX for a "few years" he said but he never told me how long he was at DL. He mostly talked of his time at FX.

It doesn't sound likely to just change from one airline to another like that.. It isn't a professional sport with trades and free agency and such.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12): What makes pilots start such crazy rumors? I don't quite get the logic behind half of the ones I read here, especially this one.

It gets really boring in the cockpit, I only have my PPL and I already get bored on flights..

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): Here's the rumor of the century:

Its 2012, theres 88 years left, I am no longer excited for the rest of the century then...

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9): If I want to hang with UofA grads, all I need to do is order a pizza; they're obligated to get it to me in 30 minutes or less.

No no no you messed it all up ... its how do you get an ASU grad off your porch ? .... pay for the pizza.  

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2): Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): I was drinking on Mill the other day and was chatting with a FX Pilot who flew the MD-11 for DL and moved over to FX when the MD-11 was retired I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

Correct, unless a quite senior pilot happened to REALLY want to work for FX, in which case I doubt he went straight to the MD-11 with a better schedule than he had. I agree with longhauler, this is extraordinarily dubious.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3): Quoting longhauler (Reply 2): I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL. unless he quit working for Delta and went to FX....

Very unlikely; the MD-11 was extremely senior and leaving that much seniority behind is not totally unheard of, but extremely uncommon. Besides, even if he got hired by FX into the right seat of the MD-11, his schedule at the bottom of the list would not be enviable.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12): He's been with FX for a "few years" he said but he never told me how long he was at DL. He mostly talked of his time at FX.

It would have been more than a few years.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12): What makes pilots start such crazy rumors? I don't quite get the logic behind half of the ones I read here, especially this one.

I agree. Why are you spreading these rumors if you think they are crazy?

Quoting Flaps (Reply 7): One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one.

FX is hiring into the right seat of the MD-11 right now (or at least they were a few a few months ago). I know someone from Eagle that just got hired right out of the ERJ into the MD-10/11.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 14): Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):If I want to hang with UofA grads, all I need to do is order a pizza; they're obligated to get it to me in 30 minutes or less. No no no you messed it all up ... its how do you get an ASU grad off your porch ? .... pay for the pizza.

Nah, it's a tired, old joke about UofA grads.

Ranks right up there with "What's the difference between Tempe and Tucson? Tempe has nightlife. Tucson has...night."

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 16): Quoting Flaps (Reply 7): One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one. FX is hiring into the right seat of the MD-11 right now (or at least they were a few a few months ago). I know someone from Eagle that just got hired right out of the ERJ into the MD-10/11.

Being hired into the right seat of the MD-11 is not the issue. The MD-11 at FX is not as senior with a large fleet as it is when it's a small fleet at the very top of the seniority list and payscale (e.g. DL, AA.) Leaving the MD-11 at one airline where it is exceptionally senior for FX is the reason several of us are highly dubious, particularly given the nature of the rumor attributed to this guy.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 15): I agree. Why are you spreading these rumors if you think they are crazy?

Well not necessarily spreading the rumor, just telling you what I heard for a good laugh and analysis for what-if.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 14): No no no you messed it all up ... its how do you get an ASU grad off your porch ? .... pay for the pizza.

   I've heard that one!

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 15): It would have been more than a few years.

I'm guessing. He looked to be in his later 40s/early 50s.

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 16): FX is hiring into the right seat of the MD-11 right now (or at least they were a few a few months ago). I know someone from Eagle that just got hired right out of the ERJ into the MD-10/11.

I heard cargo airlines' hiring/seniority is rather strange.

if he got hired into FX, lets say 5 or 6 years ago, where would he start?

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 18): Leaving the MD-11 at one airline where it is exceptionally senior for FX is the reason several of us are highly dubious, particularly given the nature of the rumor attributed to this guy.

He told me that he's in PHX quite a bit and frequents mill, so if I run into him again I'll ask him.

This may have nothing to do with this or anything else but as a former NWA person i was interested in Delta's current route map and while it appears to show only DELTA service/not code-shares it included from LAX service to -PPT|MEL|BNE and i think maybe AKL none of which they service with their own aircraft. In true A.net fashion maybe the PPT part has to do with this rumor LOL...

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 20): This may have nothing to do with this or anything else but as a former NWA person i was interested in Delta's current route map and while it appears to show only DELTA service/not code-shares it included from LAX service to -PPT|MEL|BNE and i think maybe AKL none of which they service with their own aircraft. In true A.net fashion maybe the PPT part has to do with this rumor LOL...

These particular routes could be involved in the DL/Virgin Australia JV out of LAX.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 20):

LAX-PPT is a AF route. The rest....

Quoting mayor (Reply 21): DL/Virgin Australia JV

no AKL though.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 20): In true A.net fashion maybe the PPT part has to do with this rumor LOL...

Seriously though what's the value of PPT if routes from there keep losing money?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22): no AKL though.

Doesn't HA serve this route? Since HA is a SkyMiles partner I can see more alliances/partnerships with DL in the future (especially since DL has some heavy ops out of HNL)

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2): I found this a little strange. If someone were senior enough to fly the MD-11 at DL, he wouldn't "move over" to FX when the aircraft was retired. He would simply be retrained on another aircraft within DL.

I agree

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3): unless he quit working for Delta and went to FX....

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5): That's what happened. He said he wanted to continue flying the MD-11 and he said that FX offered better hours for him and his family.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 15): Very unlikely; the MD-11 was extremely senior and leaving that much seniority behind is not totally unheard of, but extremely uncommon. Besides, even if he got hired by FX into the right seat of the MD-11, his schedule at the bottom of the list would not be enviable.

True that FX has hired into the right seat of the -11/-10 but mostly to ANC base and there the sched may be somewhat better than MEM since it's mostly Asian bound but he would be junior none the less. Sounds like a few missing pieces to this story.

Ah yes, the daily rumor overheard from an airline pilot...

No way DL would be interested in TN. Ever. At most, I could see them taking over for AF on the LAX-PPT route using a 763. Even then I would have my doubts.

My dad retired as a captain, he always hear rumors. It's just a rumour. Any pilots can tell you lots of rumors going around. It's not going to happen.

There is actually one thing which could make Air Tahiti Nui interesting to a foreign investor.

It's an EU airline, which means that it has comprehensive EU traffic rights.

But all other factors should influence any sane investor to run for the hills.

Quoting koruman (Reply 27): It's an EU airline, which means that it has comprehensive EU traffic rights.

It also means that you are limited to only 49% ownership (unless you are already an EU airline- but then TN's rights are meaningless), and you know the Tahiti government is always going to want their hand in the pot.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12): What makes pilots start such crazy rumors? I don't quite get the logic behind half of the ones I read here, especially this one.

Simple really, so we can time how long it takes for us to tell the rumor at said "watering hole" to make it to airliners.net. Often a wager is involved between crew members and sometimes even the FA get involved in the wager  

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12): What makes pilots start such crazy rumors? I don't quite get the logic behind half of the ones I read here, especially this one.

A pilot did not start this crazy rumor on Anet, You did.

Maybe Delta dba Air Tahiti Nui will start a hub in Cincinnati.

Didn't TN & AA start a code-share anyway?

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 13): It doesn't sound likely to just change from one airline to another like that.. It isn't a professional sport with trades and free agency and such.

When will you learn. The pilot group has grist for the "Mill" ground to a fine pulp. In my 28 years of working in this biz, I used to take what they said as fact, until I realized nothing happend. "HP is merging with AA!!!!" "HP is merging with UA!!!" "HP is buying CO!!!" I heard it all. And yet when I had to work at XE they never caught the OO/EV buy out/merger that caught all of us off guard. Not to disparage pilots, I love them, and they do a fantastic job. I admire the profession, and do the coulda/shoulda/woulda thing with myself, having quit my lessons a long time ago. But hey! It makes the day go by quickly when you can jump in and toss these rumours around. LOL!

JD CRP

This rumor has to be true. My neighbor's cousin works for AS, and he said there was going to be a merger between AS and TN. Since that didn't happen, it has to be because DL outbid them.

You know, I think the "Delta Dartboard" actually refers to random people (other than DL management) throwing darts at not just routes, but at random carriers/mergers, JVs, hubs, etc

The saddest part is you'll have people in other threads claiming DL has a "huge ego and is trying to buy everyone" because they read all these rumors and assume that's exactly what DL is doing...

Funny how these things work.......it was my experience, working at DL at small, medium and large stations that MOST rumors coming from the pilots aren't worth much. They may have a nugget of truth in them, but that's about all. We used to joke that the only good rumors came from listening to the part timers.

When rumors were flying around about a possible DL/WA merger, we finally struck gold when we found out from Flight Control that they were tracking the movements of WA's CEO, at the time, who was being squired around the DL system by the VP of marketing and another exec. Shortly after that happened, the official announcement was made, in Sept of 86, I believe.


On another note, when I was in the Air Force, stationed at Shemya AFB in the Aleutian Islands, we started to call the passenger service office, "rumor control", because guys were so desperate to leave the island, when their time came, that any rumor, no matter how small and they were calling us to verify the rumor. Most of the time, there was no truth to the rumor.....sometimes it was true. They were willing to fly back to ANC on a C-124, in the middle of the week, rather than wait for Saturday and catch the regular C-141 back to ANC.

0% chance of this happening.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 1): First TN is a French company, and only maximum 49% foreign ownership is allowed. Second, DL already has defacto route rights for PPT-LAX-CDG. It could launch service on both sectors tomorrow if it wished. Additionally DL could also operate beyond from PPT to all types of places like Australia or New Zealand with full traffic rights. This is already in the bilateral.

  


YOWza

Wow, so DL is buying AS, TN and HA?

Quoting rwsea (Reply 25): No way DL would be interested in TN. Ever. At most, I could see them taking over for AF on the LAX-PPT route using a 763. Even then I would have my doubts.

Yeah exactly. I don't think DL could pull a profit on that route at all.

Quoting koruman (Reply 27): It's an EU airline, which means that it has comprehensive EU traffic rights.

Actually right now I don't think any investor wants anything to do with the EU until the debt crisis gets resolved.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 31): Maybe Delta dba Air Tahiti Nui will start a hub in Cincinnati.

   now THAT made my day!
I'd love to see the 340 back in CVG again  

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 22): Quoting mayor (Reply 21): DL/Virgin Australia JV no AKL though.

How about KE?

Quoting Flaps (Reply 7): One does not simply move from the MD11 @ DL to the MD11 @ FredEx. Calling BS on that one.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 18): Leaving the MD-11 at one airline where it is exceptionally senior for FX is the reason several of us are highly dubious, particularly given the nature of the rumor attributed to this guy.

My question is: Was the guy eligible for retirement at DL? If so then it's an entirely plausible story.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 8): Alot egos on Mill, enough said. Everyone knows everything, espically when they are drinking

Hey, I resemble that remark.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9): If I want to hang with UofA grads, all I need to do is order a pizza; they're obligated to get it to me in 30 minutes or less.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17): Ranks right up there with "What's the difference between Tempe and Tucson? Tempe has nightlife. Tucson has...night."

LOL! You're killing me!

Just to give perspective on how senior the DL MD-11 FO position was...those that were able to hold it are now pretty senior 767 captains.

Something smells.  

Sometimes I think pilots like to start rumors just to see aviation fans get all worked up over it.
I have a rule I follow: "Believe it when it's at the gate boarding passengers or appears in the schedule!".

I have one for you, Did you know that WN is going to switch suppliers for the "blue juice" on their 737-800's and now the it will be colored orange!

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 18): Being hired into the right seat of the MD-11 is not the issue. The MD-11 at FX is not as senior with a large fleet as it is when it's a small fleet at the very top of the seniority list and payscale (e.g. DL, AA.) Leaving the MD-11 at one airline where it is exceptionally senior for FX is the reason several of us are highly dubious, particularly given the nature of the rumor attributed to this guy.

Completely agree, I suspect the only MD11 time this chap has is on Flight Sim.


Calling absolute BS on this one !

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5): But then again if they acquire the 49% stake could they have authority over those routes or not?

They could have "authority" in the way that a large, perhaps even the largest, shareholder would have influence over the running of the airline, but the route authorities would remain applicable to Air Tahiti only.

Quoting rampart (Reply 42): Hey, I resemble that remark.

Even drunk, I don't think you could resemble that remark.

  

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 38): Wow, so DL is buying AS, TN and HA?

Yes, according to the world of airliners.net....

Quoting rampart (Reply 42): Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 8): Alot egos on Mill, enough said. Everyone knows everything, espically when they are drinking Hey, I resemble that remark.

As do I haha

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): I was drinking on Mill the other day...

Not an airline-related question here, but.... What is "Mill"? A road?

DL will acquire TN immediatly after placing an order for 150 A380s and 100 B747-800s...  

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 48): Not an airline-related question here, but.... What is "Mill"? A road?

A road where Arizona State University students go to "Study" the fine selection of adult beverages available.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 48):

It is a road in Tempe right near ASU, it is a local drinking hotspot.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 50): A road where Arizona State University students go to "Study" the fine selection of adult beverages available.

Aaaah.... Much like "The Library", where my older cousin used to go (and truthfully told his parents) on various evenings during college! lol

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 50): Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 48): Not an airline-related question here, but.... What is "Mill"? A road? A road where Arizona State University students go to "Study" the fine selection of adult beverages available.

There used to be a bar there called the "Schoolhouse" and it closed down and was replaced lol

Mill is our hip and happening spot lol

named after some grain mill near the lake.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 50): A road where Arizona State University students go to "Study" the fine selection of adult beverages available.

As a non-ASU student, I can verify that its not only students studying the inventory of adult libations on Mill. 

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 50): Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 48): Not an airline-related question here, but.... What is "Mill"? A road? A road where Arizona State University students go to "Study" the fine selection of adult beverages available.

What I find amazing is how many people here DID know what "Mill" was referring to.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 53): named after some grain mill near the lake.

Is the old mill there any more? I remember when it was, and still held flour, and there was no lake! It wasn't that long ago.

Nice tangent we have going here. I used to climb A Mtn, above the Mill, to watch planes. How's that for a feeble attempt at aviation?

-Rampart

TN may not be making any money as an airline. But in the big picture it is making money for the owners (France). Just think of the millions and millions of Euros in delivers to the islands in tourist revenue and jobs it produces(taxes,again France). France gets the taxes on what the tourists spends. And France gets the taxes from the salaries of the tourist related jobs. I doubt TN is going anywhere.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 56): TN may not be making any money as an airline. But in the big picture it is making money for the owners (France). Just think of the millions and millions of Euros in delivers to the islands in tourist revenue and jobs it produces(taxes,again France). France gets the taxes on what the tourists spends. And France gets the taxes from the salaries of the tourist related jobs. I doubt TN is going anywhere.

Except it is not. Tourism has been faltering in Tahiti and many hotels have been closing. The benefit that TN brings versus offering incentives to other carriers to operate to Tahiti is highly questionable.

Quoting rampart (Reply 55): Is the old mill there any more? I remember when it was, and still held flour, and there was no lake! It wasn't that long ago.

They just reopened it as a museum last week. It looks nice

Quoting rampart (Reply 55): and there was no lake! It wasn't that long ago.

Its really not a "lake" in the natural sense, just a section of the Salt thats been dammed.

Define "not long ago" because the lake was filled in July 1999.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 50): A road where Arizona State University students go to "Study" the fine selection of adult beverages available.

Right at the "Library" for example IIRC  

DL will no doubt acquire a fleet of A340-300 aircraft to serve this route, since they are inexpensive on the second-hand market, and they are the only major airframe the carrier hasn't had a chance to operate yet. They will form a French owned subsidiary 'airline within an airline' and call it 'Chanson'. It will concentrate on point to point services, but also make PPT a haven for those who don't like the tedium of connecting in ATL or MSP.  

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 60): Its really not a "lake" in the natural sense, just a section of the Salt thats been dammed. Define "not long ago" because the lake was filled in July 1999.

I know. I was acquainted with the plans. I left in '95. It's all relative.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 59): They just reopened it as a museum last week. It looks nice

Cool! Something I'd recognize. The growth there is phenomenal.

-Rampart

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 62): DL will no doubt acquire a fleet of A340-300 aircraft to serve this route

Waaaaaait are you being serious or sarcastic?