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Topic: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: QF74
Posted 2012-10-09 12:51:53 and read 12871 times.

The state of Louisiana is backing a group of investors wanting to purchase Frontier and move it to NOLA.

http://www.225batonrouge.com/article...112/121009775/0/BUSINESSREPORT0401

It's the first I've heard of it, does anyone else have any insight? Do you think it could work?

As a New Orleans resident, I'd love to see it happen (but I have my doubts).

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: commavia
Posted 2012-10-09 12:54:09 and read 12890 times.

What a stupid idea. More politicians fooling themselves into thinking they understand the airline industry ...

[Edited 2012-10-09 12:55:26]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: drerx7
Posted 2012-10-09 12:57:50 and read 12835 times.

I think this would be a disaster for everyone involved.

"Every major city in Louisiana..." Louisiana doesn't have any real major cities except New Orleans. Even less important when in comes to air travel. No-one is going to fly from BTR-MSY, and F9 equipment is too large to economically connect SHV or AEX/LCH and the like to MSY.

Then there is the real issue of the loyal carriers...namely WN...you piss off WN and they either:
1.) Retalliate and finally disconnected the breathing machine from F9 via competition or...
2.) They retreat/stagnate from MSY and F9 still collapses - leaving MSY with pre-Katrina levels of service.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-09 13:10:52 and read 12702 times.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
No-one is going to fly from BTR-MSY, and F9 equipment is too large to economically connect SHV or AEX/LCH and the like to MSY.

Yeah, I doubt that would be part of the plan "if" it ever got off the ground. Poorly worded article in some respect.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
Then there is the real issue of the loyal carriers...namely WN...you piss off WN and they either:
1.) Retalliate and finally disconnected the breathing machine from F9 via competition or...
2.) They retreat/stagnate from MSY and F9 still collapses - leaving MSY with pre-Katrina levels of service.

I guess the public would have to decided. Stick with WN which has provided strong service to MSY since 1979 or give a locally owned company a shot. It would depend on many factors, not the least of which would be the amount of service offered. I can tell you that on the whole people down here are fiercely loyal to local brands.

For the record I don't think this will happen, but I have to admit it's intriguing on some level. For personal reasons, it'd sure be something to see.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: TWA772LR
Posted 2012-10-09 13:12:58 and read 12687 times.

A regional focus city COULD work for F9 in MSY. With routes to other medium-large cities in the south to MSY and a prop operation going on connecting other "major" cities in Louisiana to MSY, but with planes about SF3 size. If F9 can start routes from MSY to Central America, that could be a gold mine for them.

But if they want a domestic hub in the South, MEM would be better. Less competition since DL is all but pulled out and MEM is a larger city than MSY. Also, it is a better location geographically. But most of all, WN is not in MEM.

Uprooting completely from DEN to MSY would pretty much spell the end for Frontier Airlines as we know it.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-09 13:24:30 and read 12572 times.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
WN is not in MEM.

With the FL merger that is changing....

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: TWA772LR
Posted 2012-10-09 13:40:01 and read 12480 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 5):
With the FL merger that is changing....

Doesn't the City of Memphis have an anti-WN policy? If so, I could see FL's ATL route being an exception.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-09 13:41:48 and read 12467 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
What a stupid idea. More politicians fooling themselves into thinking they understand the airline industry ...

MSY is in a horrible location too. Too far south for any decent connections. I can see someone buying it and establishing a focus city in MSY but nothing like what they have in DEN.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: Jetmatt777
Posted 2012-10-09 13:42:28 and read 12441 times.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 6):
Doesn't the City of Memphis have an anti-WN policy? If so, I could see FL's ATL route being an exception.

How would a city have an anti-WN policy. That is against the law.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-09 13:46:59 and read 12405 times.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
How would a city have an anti-WN policy. That is against the law.
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 6):
Doesn't the City of Memphis have an anti-WN policy? If so, I could see FL's ATL route being an exception.

It was never an official thing so it was not illegal but yes, the city made Memphis look very "Ugly" to SWA in order to protect the DL MEM hub. Ever since the DL hub cuts MEM is bowing down to WN.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-10-09 13:47:37 and read 12405 times.

If these pols are really serious, wouldn't it just be so much less expensive to start up from scratch?????

Get what planes are needed to what routes are needed with what people are needed and just go from there.......

After all, they are the politicians, and they have whatever pull is needed to get this done quickly, unlike a non-political entity.


 

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: Bobloblaw
Posted 2012-10-09 13:49:30 and read 12393 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 10):
If these pols are really serious, wouldn't it just be so much less expensive to start up from scratch?????

The most valuable asset F9 has is its FAA Operating Certificate. A from scratch airline would require more $$$ and take much longer eg California Pacific.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-10-09 13:58:30 and read 12303 times.

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 11):
The most valuable asset F9 has is its FAA Operating Certificate. A from scratch airline would require more $$$ and take much longer eg California Pacific.

Yes, okay, but with the FAA OC comes all of the contracts, employees, leases, etc, etc.

I'm not quite sure of the situation with CP, but somehow they do seem to be doing something that is simply taking such a long time.

And also, what is the $$$$ that RAH will sell off F9 for? Since F9 is now turning a plus profit, suddenly value has to go up, eh?


 

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: thomasphoto60
Posted 2012-10-09 13:58:40 and read 12300 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 9):
the city made Memphis look very "Ugly" to SWA in order to protect the DL MEM hub. Ever since the DL hub cuts MEM is bowing down to WN.

Interesting, I am curious as to what tactics Memphis used to make their city look less appealing.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-09 14:11:32 and read 12221 times.

F9 already tried MEM to MCO and If memory serves me MEM-DEN. As I recall It lasted about a year.

This might have worked with the E190 but only a handful of those remain. In lieu of purchasing an airline another thought might be to offer incentives or financial guarantees which would allow one or two airframes fly around the state on a continuous basis or something mirroring charter work.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-10-09 14:14:11 and read 12185 times.

I really don't think this would work. While moving F9 out of DEN certainly has its benefits (they are facing stiff competition in DEN from UA and WN), MSY doesn't seem like a good place for them to relocate. It doesn't have enough O&D traffic to justify F9 moving there, and it is poorly placed as a connecting hub: it will face strong competition from UA at IAH and WN at HOU, and to an extent DL and WN at ATL. I also agree with other a.netters in that intrastate service within Louisiana would certainly not work: it just doesn't have many major cities that are spaced far apart, and that would merit service with the A318/A319. Honestly I'm not sure what can be done to save F9...

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2012-10-09 14:21:49 and read 12141 times.

It could work out just as well as Pride Air, or Air New Orleans, or fantasy Air Gumbo lol. Not only is size an issue at New Orleans, demographics as well. What % of potential area passengers make enough to be able to fly? Maybe if they set up an Allegiant-type at MSY, getting folks to come to the French Quarter,etc, might have a chance. But if someone thinks throwing a few flights to IAD, LAX, MIA, ORD, MCO , as well as AEX, SHV,MLU etc will work, well, enjoy the business you do after the airline gig. Oh, may as well toss a Caravan to Morgan City while you're at it.  

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-09 14:28:42 and read 12094 times.

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 13):
I am curious as to what tactics Memphis used to make their city look less appealing.

One thought which comes to mind is FedEx and potential inbound and outbound delays at the wrong time of day. I think that is why you will never see scheduled WN metal in MEM. I connected through MEM in 2004 on a 757 NW flight from SEA. Memphis center had the flight deck slow the aircraft down over somewhere over Kansas because of inbound traffic delays said to be FedEx in good weather.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-09 15:09:17 and read 11856 times.

Posted in a different thread...

www.newfrontierairlines.com

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2012-10-09 15:13:54 and read 11791 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 17):
One thought which comes to mind is FedEx and potential inbound and outbound delays at the wrong time of day. I think that is why you will never see scheduled WN metal in MEM. I connected through MEM in 2004 on a 757 NW flight from SEA. Memphis center had the flight deck slow the aircraft down over somewhere over Kansas because of inbound traffic delays said to be FedEx in good weather.

I thought the beauty of these air freight hubs was that they operated the vast bulk of their flights at "off" times vs passenger airlines(??)

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: deltaffindfw
Posted 2012-10-09 15:21:48 and read 11704 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):

www.newfrontierairlines.com

Nice website. I can't wait to see the A330 on SHV-MSY flights  

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-09 15:22:27 and read 11676 times.

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 13):
Interesting, I am curious as to what tactics Memphis used to make their city look less appealing.

  

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 9):
It was never an official thing so it was not illegal but yes, the city made Memphis look very "Ugly" to SWA in order to protect the DL MEM hub.

Oh that's priceless. So Southwest approached MSCAA and said, "We'd like to serve your airport." What exactly do you think MSCAA did? "Well, Southwest, you can fly here, but you're going to get the ticket counters farthest from the security checkpoint and the gates farthest from the restrooms. And no parking spot for the station manager!" It couldn't propose charge Southwest discriminatory rates because that would be against the law. Maybe it falsified economic and demographic data to make the region look like a real dump?

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 17):
One thought which comes to mind is FedEx and potential inbound and outbound delays at the wrong time of day. I think that is why you will never see scheduled WN metal in MEM. I connected through MEM in 2004 on a 757 NW flight from SEA. Memphis center had the flight deck slow the aircraft down over somewhere over Kansas because of inbound traffic delays said to be FedEx in good weather.

You had one flight to MEM in 2004, noticed the plane slowed down over Kansas, and concluded that MEM had massive airspace delays? You seriously think WN is concerned with delays in MEM when it is flying into SFO, PHL, and LGA? In all likelihood, you will see WN metal in MEM next year.

[Edited 2012-10-09 15:25:01]

[Edited 2012-10-09 15:25:55]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-09 15:24:17 and read 11641 times.

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 20):
Nice website. I can't wait to see the A330 on SHV-MSY flights

Nice paint scheme though. Very Mardi Gras-ish. Beats the pants off of Air Gumbo's vomit plane. 

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-09 15:35:20 and read 11497 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 19):

True many banks of flights show up at night on or after 10 PM CST. With that said I've monitored BNA on flight aware on many-many occasions at various times of the day. You can usually see several FedEx flight heading to MEM from somewhere throughout the day. Its actually pretty amazing. I don't monitor MEM often but one night I saw one FedEx flight after another lining up for MEM at or near LIT. I guess they follow the I-40 corridor into MEM

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-09 15:36:39 and read 11474 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 17):
I connected through MEM in 2004

I think 2004 says it all. WN will certainly be in MEM. The 2004 MEM is nothing like 2012.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 21):
you will see WN metal in MEM next year.

100% we will see it.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2012-10-09 15:42:41 and read 11728 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 21):
You had one flight to MEM in 2004, noticed the plane slowed down over Kansas, and concluded that MEM had massive airspace delays? You seriously think WN is concerned with delays in MEM when it is flying into SFO, PHL, and LGA? In all likelihood, you will see WN metal in MEM next year.

LOL.. IIRC, for many years MEM was the #1 on-time hub in the country with a 90%+ on-time percentage. MEM has three runways and very little Fedex traffic most of the day...it is hardly congested.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-09 16:22:08 and read 11462 times.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
But most of all, WN is not in MEM.

But Delta is.

And every time Frontier has encroached on Delta (Northwest) territory, Delta (Northwest) has hit back disproportionately hard.

One could get paranoid.

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 11):
The most valuable asset F9 has is its FAA Operating Certificate. A from scratch airline would require more $$$ and take much longer eg California Pacific.

Whatever you think Frontier's AOC would cost (with all that it entails) add $150 million to that number for Republic to come out clean.

The smartest thing Republic ever did.  

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-09 16:24:45 and read 11477 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 19):
I thought the beauty of these air freight hubs was that they operated the vast bulk of their flights at "off" times vs passenger airlines(??)
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 25):
LOL.. IIRC, for many years MEM was the #1 on-time hub in the country with a 90%+ on-time percentage. MEM has three runways and very little Fedex traffic most of the day...it is hardly congested.

The most recent Memphis Master Plan (published in 2009-10) looked at the issue of peak-period airfield utilization and whether the airfield could meet FedEx and Delta's long-term hubbing needs. I recall seeing an insightful histogram depicting scheduled airfield movements over the course of the typical day during the busy month that illustrated how FedEx's daytime bank slotted in nicely around the Delta midday and late-afternoon banks. As for the FedEx overnight peak, the only passenger movements likely to be affected would be late-evening (11p and later) terminating flights. Given how few aircraft Delta RON at MEM, this is likely to be the last flight of the day from other hubs, particularly those west of MEM.

Reference Page 24.
Link: http://www.mscaa.com/themes/memairport/images/MPExecSum.pdf

One could hardly argue, especially with the Delta capacity cuts that have taken affect since this work was completed, that MEM has an airfield capacity problem...even if the FedEx arrivals are spaced out over the various airspace fixes surrounding MEM.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-10-09 17:01:56 and read 11137 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):
jporterf

"All of the markets will pay the same fare to New Orleans, projected at $59 one way based upon current fuel prices"

"Alexandria, Baton Rouge, Lafayette, Lake Charles, Monroe, and Shreveport are guaranteed 3 flights daily to New Orleans"

  

I give it 3 weeks before they raise fares. These routes sound like routes that would qualify for Essential Air Service subsidies; how is F9 supposed to fly them profitably with no subsidies? I can't imagine there would be enough demand to support 3 daily flights, especially to BTR. Maybe 3 flights on an E120, but certainly not 3 E190 flights, in my opinion.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-10-09 17:30:20 and read 10813 times.

How does one possibly make MEM look any worse than it really is? The local government and population have done a masterful job already of creating that image.

As for F9 and MSY, I agree with the above, it's Pride Air all over again, OTOH I do like the concept of regional airlines as true regional operators instead of massive network feeders. The likes of a new round of AL,NC,SO,PI etc has a certain appeal for old folks like me.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-09 17:42:58 and read 10704 times.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 29):
As for F9 and MSY, I agree with the above, it's Pride Air all over again,

I disagree with that. Pride Air was started not long after the oil bust in the city. It was probably the worst time for something like that to take place. The early/mid 80's were not kind to the New Orleans economy. Fast forward to 2012... the city has been receiving accolades for it's burgeoning business climate from national publications left and right. It's a night and day difference.

http://www.fastcompany.com/3001140/big-easiest-place-build-startup

http://gnoinc.org/news/region-news/g...-orleans-fuels-a-growing-industry/

http://gnoinc.org/news/region-news/a...nto-americas-fastest-growing-city/

http://gnoinc.org/news/region-news/louisianas-diverse-tech-mecca/

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-10-09 18:04:09 and read 10472 times.

This is kind of a crazy idea but lets be honest here Republic is going to spin this airline off as a loss they would sell it to these people at a great price if they are willing to buy it.

It just seems a little crazy but clearly someone has spent money on the planning of this. Virgin America might investors might want to sell also if these guys have cash and are willing to buy?

I dont understand in the report it says service to Serving all cities now served and adding service to national cities such as Seattle, Austin, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Hartford, Portland, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City, Columbus OH, Albuquerque and San Diego.

Doesnt Delta already offer service to Salt Lake City from MSY? None of these cities have MSY service?

Is there any chance this is just some MBAs report out there that the media picked up online? When i was an MBA student i made several reports that looked like this but just ideas? Can anyone confirm this was "presented" to the city of New Orleans? on Yahoo! M7 does pull up quite a few websites

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-09 18:11:34 and read 10370 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 31):
I dont understand in the report it says service to Serving all cities now served and adding service to national cities such as Seattle, Austin, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Hartford, Portland, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City, Columbus OH, Albuquerque and San Diego.

Doesnt Delta already offer service to Salt Lake City from MSY? None of these cities have MSY service?

Out of the cities you listed, SLC is served by DL, but none of the others are. Also on the route map of currently served cities SFO isn't listed so I can assume this was made before UA restarted MSY-SFO. They just need to update things a bit.

If these guys have the money and want to make a go of this, I'm all for it. Money talks, especially when you have a situation like the one F9 is in right now.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-10-09 18:18:47 and read 10269 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 32):
If these guys have the money and want to make a go of this, I'm all for it. Money talks, especially when you have a situation like the one F9 is in right now.

There is certainly no doubt if its real Republic hasnt already reached out to them. Clearly a sale would be the loose the least amount of money for Republic even if they totally leave DEN they have a responsility one could argue to the shareholders to not listen and really consider a sale even if they think the idea is crazy and will kill Frontier.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: Flaps
Posted 2012-10-09 18:21:12 and read 10245 times.

In order for this to be successful F9 would have to rely heavily on regional and local O&D. They would have to provide something different enough to draw pax off of the legacies. MSY would have to compete with a global network carrier at IAH and WN at HOU, not a pretty thought. Perhaps if they could find a way as a regional niche player catering to higher yield business traffic they could make something work but certainly not with a fleet of Airbii. Perhaps 190's, the MRJ or the C-series but definitely not the bigger busses that make up the current F9 fleet.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-09 18:21:16 and read 10282 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 31):
This is kind of a crazy idea but lets be honest here Republic is going to spin this airline off as a loss they would sell it to these people at a great price if they are willing to buy it.

When has anyone - especially Republic - ever suggested that they are going to spin Frontier off at a loss?

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-09 18:24:46]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-10-09 18:27:27 and read 10174 times.

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 11):
The most valuable asset F9 has is its FAA Operating Certificate

If that's the case then I'm sure DL would be willing to sell Comair's certificate. It would give them a piece of paper without the liabilities attached.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):

That website is priceless!

It seems to genuinely believe that MSY can become a hub with a focus on LatAm. F9 would be right up against Spirit over at FLL, and somehow I can't see them coming out on top. And in case we had any illusions about their growth plans, they provide DL's ATL route map and a picture of ICN (yes, Seoul!)

If F9 were to do this, the first thing they would need to do is rightsize their fleet. B1900s are about all that's necessary for MSY-BTR, maybe a E120 with connections

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-09 18:29:54 and read 10152 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
When has anyone - especially Republic - ever suggested that they are going to spin Frontier off at a loss?

The way I interpreted the sentence, he is saying the entire F9 investment will be sold as a loss to Republic. Overall, even if F9 is making a profit when they sell the airline, Republic will have lost a lot.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-10-09 18:33:46 and read 10107 times.

This IS the most rediculous thing ive ever seen! When i was like 11 i created my own fantasy airline and i drafted documents like this. I could dream whatever i wanted because it was FANTASY LOL..this is hillarious...i wonder what the hard working people at the real FRONTIER think of this crap. People need to quit writing them off. They turned a profit, will probably turn another one this quarter and are consistently everyday in the 90% LF range. F9 will be around long after this site loses its domain address

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-09 18:45:13 and read 9992 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 37):
The way I interpreted the sentence, he is saying the entire F9 investment will be sold as a loss to Republic. Overall, even if F9 is making a profit when they sell the airline, Republic will have lost a lot.

How so?

The basis of the separation is the FAPA agreement of Spring 2011, in which Republic agreed to take a minority holding in Frontier. The amount of that minority was not specified.

Nor has Republic ever publicly said which of the three alternatives were most attractive to them - (i) an outright sale (ii) bringing in a private investor( with Republic retaining a minority position) or (iii) a spin-off, perhaps involving present RJET shareholders, with Republic maintaining a minority position.

Republic has always said that an outright sale, while possible, seems the least likely and In either of the other two options, Republic stands to make quite a deal of money.

Much as the venture capitalists in JeBlue (George Soros, e.g.), made a lot of money when they "spun off" JetBlue to the market.

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-09 19:06:47]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: panpan
Posted 2012-10-09 18:46:51 and read 9936 times.

There's no shortage of stupid ideas in louisiana. Maybe the new airline will go to the new airport they want to build in the bayou.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2012-10-09 18:49:26 and read 9928 times.

WOW....I am not even 1/3 into the proposal and there are some wildly optimistic (and some logically questionable) assumptions baked into this proposal.

Sent this to my family and friends back in Looosiana and cant wait for the responses :P

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-09 18:58:44 and read 9798 times.

Quoting panpan (Reply 40):
Maybe the new airline will go to the new airport they want to build in the bayou.

They shelved that idea about five years ago. Wetland conservation groups weren't exactly in favor.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-09 18:59:07 and read 9792 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):
Posted in a different thread...
Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 20):
Nice website. I can't wait to see the A330 on SHV-MSY flights

Oh wow, I have no idea what they're planning on doing with this. Are these International flights? Domestic flights? Are they merging with F9? How did F9 agree to this name? It's crazy

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-09 19:04:56 and read 9736 times.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 41):
WOW....I am not even 1/3 into the proposal and there are some wildly optimistic (and some logically questionable) assumptions baked into this proposal.

Sent this to my family and friends back in Looosiana and cant wait for the responses :P

Makes for entertaining reading though right? They put a lot of work into this, I'll give them that.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-09 19:32:05 and read 9588 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
How so?

What he is saying is Republic when it sells, spins off or whatever they decide to do, will have lost more money on F9 then it is made. Thus, Frontier was a loss to Republic. Down right simple.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-09 19:55:12 and read 9324 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 45):
What he is saying is Republic when it sells, spins off or whatever they decide to do, will have lost more money on F9 then it is made. Thus, Frontier was a loss to Republic. Down right simple.

That isn't my interpretation of it at all.

BB has always said - and told the staff - that Republic will make its money when there is an IPO of the spun-off Frontier.

Until then - he has said - Republic will be "a patient investor."

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2012-10-09 19:58:55 and read 9264 times.

Maybe Republic can sell Frontier to folks trying New PEOPLExpress to get going. That'd be kind of funny for people that know why. Full circle lol

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: HPRamper
Posted 2012-10-09 20:00:09 and read 9254 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 15):
It doesn't have enough O&D traffic to justify F9 moving there, and it is poorly placed as a connecting hub: it will face strong competition from UA at IAH and WN at HOU, and to an extent DL and WN at ATL.

Actually, MSY is not in a terrible location as an East-West connecting hub. Probably better even than IAH. Of course, F9 would have to completely abandon its current market region and fully embrace the South.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 15):
Honestly I'm not sure what can be done to save F9...

Leave DEN for greener, less competitive pastures.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 19):
I thought the beauty of these air freight hubs was that they operated the vast bulk of their flights at "off" times vs passenger airlines(??)

They do - morning departure banks at around 3-4ish and evening arrival banks at around 11p-12a. The other turns are during daytime operating hours but not really at peak times. Mid-morning, late afternoon.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-09 20:02:20 and read 9277 times.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 48):
Leave DEN for greener, less competitive pastures.

Why? Frontier is presently flying profitably at DEN.

In Q2, Frontier was the largest contributor - $14 million - to the Republic profit.

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...ines-gives-a-lift-to.html?page=all

"Frontier Airlines’ parent company reported a “dramatic turnaround” over the past year Wednesday, led largely by increasing profits for its Denver-hubbed airline."

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-09 20:04:23]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-09 20:09:01 and read 9144 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 49):
In Q2, Frontier was the largest contributor - $14 million - to the Republic profit.

A profit is always good but $14 Million is nothing to be basing anything on. I think we need to wait at least 2 more profitable quarters of more then $14 Million before anyone can say Frontier is even near safe.

Quoting mariner (Reply 46):
That isn't my interpretation of it at all.

Well neither of us wrote it so lets get the writers clarification, lol.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: irelayer
Posted 2012-10-09 20:13:42 and read 9112 times.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
How would a city have an anti-WN policy. That is against the law.

Sorry I know this is not the same thing...but doesn't Dallas have an anti-WN policy...or rather, AA? I mean it's essentially the same thing.

-IR

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-09 20:18:13 and read 9013 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 50):
A profit is always good but $14 Million is nothing to be basing anything on.

Indeed. But it's a darn sight better than the thirty million dollar loss in the same quarter of the previous year.

A $50 million turnaround ain't chopped liver.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 50):
I think we need to wait at least 2 more profitable quarters of more then $14 Million before anyone can say Frontier is even near safe.

Indeed. We know it will be profitable this quarter - the question is Q4 and, especially, Q1, 2013. Q1 is, historically, Frontier's most difficult quarter.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 50):
Well neither of us wrote it so lets get the writers clarification, lol.

Easy. Go back and read almost anything BB has said about the separation. It's mostly in the archives, although not the letters to the staff.  

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-09 20:20:44]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: boeing727
Posted 2012-10-09 20:49:31 and read 8789 times.

Maybe F9 CEO David Siegel is just having a little fun with the aviation world considering that S tephanie r IEGEL wrote the article.

Boeing727

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: jetmatt777
Posted 2012-10-09 20:51:37 and read 8755 times.

Quoting irelayer (Reply 51):
Sorry I know this is not the same thing...but doesn't Dallas have an anti-WN policy...or rather, AA? I mean it's essentially the same thing.

No. The Wright Amendment prohibits flying from Love Field to non-Wright protected (if you will) airports on equipment larger than 50 seats (correct me there, it's probably different). WN could fly DAL-LAX nonstop....just has to be on a regional jet. They can use any aircraft to states that are under the Wright Amendment. This policy does not name Southwest specifically, even if it is aimed at it. It applies to any carrier.

There is a difference in restricting the size of equipment out of a certain airport for ALL carriers, and making a policy that applies to one carrier.

Discriminatory laws are illegal in every instance.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: AS739BSI
Posted 2012-10-09 20:52:05 and read 8726 times.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
How would a city have an anti-WN policy. That is against the law.

The City of Dallas and the Wright Amendment. That should be illegal but isn't.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: jetmatt777
Posted 2012-10-09 20:57:46 and read 8707 times.

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 55):
The City of Dallas and the Wright Amendment. That should be illegal but isn't.

See my above post.

The WA would be illegal if it stated:

"Hereby, Southwest Airlines is prohibited from utilizing equipment larger than 50 seats out of Dallas-Love to non-WA approved states. "

That's not what it says, it prohibits ALL carriers from operating of Dallas-Love to non-WA approved states with large equipment. It is equal to all airlines. Southwest could have moved to DFW, but insisted on staying at DAL. The WA expires in a few years anyway, so it's a moot point.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-10-09 20:59:11 and read 8703 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 12):
Yes, okay, but with the FAA OC comes all of the contracts, employees, leases, etc, etc.

not completely true.
Compass Airlines is IIRC using the Flyi/ACA AOC.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: panpan
Posted 2012-10-09 21:07:51 and read 8635 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 42):
They shelved that idea about five years ago. Wetland conservation groups weren't exactly in favor.

I know, I know. I'm teasing. But it's all so louisiana. I think what it makes it so much so is that well all know that at the end of these crazy ideas is somebody in the shadows lining their pockets.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-10-09 22:29:37 and read 8287 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
Republic has always said that an outright sale, while possible, seems the least likely and In either of the other two options, Republic stands to make quite a deal of money.

Maybe we have a misunderstanding. You think Republic can make more selling Frontier right now then they paid for it and all the money they spent on it or loaned including all the damage claims they dropped? If thats the case then there is no loss obviously and dont even read below anymore

I think Republic will certainly get less money for Frontier then all the money they have spent on it aka net loss for investors but I am just basing that on my own guesses.

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
Republic has always said that an outright sale, while possible, seems the least likely and In either of the other two options, Republic stands to make quite a deal of money.

yeah gain money but less then they have put into it, no? I dont think anyone at Republic really thinks Frontier has great profit making potential or wants to hold any part of it anymore. They can stay a "patient investor" but they would probably greatly prefer to just get rid of it now. They clearly cant say they want to sell it totally so soon or it admits they think want to get it off their hands and its a dud. They have to say that they want to remain part of it so it looks like it has potential even if they think the opposite. Republic has to protect the value of their investment and pretend they want to remain major shareholders of Frontier they want to make it look like it has potential even if they dont think so. I wouldnt expect Frontier to say anything else until the possibility that no one will buy it. Until today i didnt think a buyer existed if that is real or daring enugh to try this. I cant wait to see what the Denver media has to say if they find that

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-09 22:35:56 and read 8278 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 59):
You think Republic can make more selling Frontier right now then they paid for it and all the money they spent on it or loaned including all the damage claims they dropped?

Not right now, no, I don't think that.

But since they're not selling it right now (barring some amazing and unlikely offer) I don't see that it applies.

And I'm not sure what "damage claims" you mean, but they surely didn't drop the critical one. It is on Frontier's books, as debt owed to republic.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 59):
yeah gain money but less then they have put into it, no? I dont think anyone at Republic really thinks Frontier has great profit making potential or wants to hold any part of it anymore. They can stay a "patient investor" but they would probably greatly prefer to just get rid of it now.

In my first post about Republic, the day they announced the bid for Frontier, I said they would eventually do what they are doing now.

I mean - look who the new CEO really works for. He's a TPG man.

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-09 22:36:48]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-10-10 00:46:46 and read 7913 times.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 48):
Actually, MSY is not in a terrible location as an East-West connecting hub. Probably better even than IAH.

Why do you think it is better than IAH (keeping in mind the hubs of other airlines in the area)?

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 48):
Leave DEN for greener, less competitive pastures.

Are you referring to MSY or another airport/region?

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-10-10 03:34:00 and read 7630 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
MSY is in a horrible location too. Too far south for any decent connec

It might be if you're only talking CONUS but I think its in a perfect spot for a Latin American gateway.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 30):
the city has been receiving accolades for it's burgeoning business climate

So burgeoning that the local fish wrap maker went from publishing daily to 3x a week?

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 54):
airports on equipment larger than 50 seats

I thought it was 56 seats but what's six seats among friends.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-10 04:34:31 and read 7443 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 61):
Why do you think it is better than IAH (keeping in mind the hubs of other airlines in the area)?

Must be all of that originating traffic from LCH going to JAX currently backtracking through IAH. Perish (or since we're talking about Louisiana, parish) the thought!

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-10 05:25:32 and read 7242 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 62):
So burgeoning that the local fish wrap maker went from publishing daily to 3x a week?

That's been a big controversy. The owner of the Saints/Hornets offered to buy the paper from the NYC-based company that owns it to continue the daily printing, but they said no. They see it as the way of the future, cutting back on print and having more of a digital focus, but the people aren't happy about it. It's being done in BHM and MOB, too, from what I understand. In any case, the BTR-based "Advocate" has opened a NOLA bureau and is printing daily papers...and the response apparently has been overwhelming...over 10,000 subscribers in 6 weeks (a number they had hoped to reach in 6 months apparently), and 1,000 new subscribers a day.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/The-...owing-Pains-In-NOLA-172895981.html

[Edited 2012-10-10 05:27:39]

http://www.bestofneworleans.com/blog...-pushing-new-orleans-subscriptions


[Edited 2012-10-10 05:30:08]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: capitalflyer
Posted 2012-10-10 06:54:15 and read 6807 times.

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 20):
Nice website

I love the "photo" of Dulles. That's a great looking terminal, wonder where it is? Maybe that is the new United terminal?  

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-10 07:28:16 and read 6573 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 21):
noticed the plane slowed down over Kansas, and concluded that MEM had massive airspace delays?

No conclusion; the flight deck announced it.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 21):
You seriously think WN is concerned with delays in MEM

Yep, for the very same reason WN told OAK to move them to the terminal closest to the run-way, which actually involved uprooting other carriers or WN threatened to leave. Given there are a few airports which suffer from delays including LAX at the wrong time of day.

Because you mention SFO you have remember much of WN fleet has the RNP Required Navigation Performance technology installed which I understand is standard issue these days from Boeing. The fog at SFO which plagued aviation is not the show stopper it use to be. RNP allows users to get in below FAA established minimals.

Excluding the FL product I have serious doubts we will see WN metal in MEM. The crow is on me if they do.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: ATWZW170
Posted 2012-10-10 07:28:23 and read 6573 times.

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 65):
I love the "photo" of Dulles. That's a great looking terminal, wonder where it is? Maybe that is the new United terminal?  

The pictures are of the IND terminal.

Ok - is Mike Boyd going to respond since his name is in the info? I wonder if he changed his mind as to whether or not this is a good idea. And I can't imagine DS or BB can let this thing go without responding or sending something out to the employees. And I really have to wonder if BB would let Frontier go at this point, it is making some money. Now for how long, that is another question.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: AVLAirlineFreq
Posted 2012-10-10 07:33:24 and read 6540 times.

Ahhh, the impossible dream of the MSY hub, like the myths of Atlantis, the Loch Ness Monster, and Bigfoot, just never seems to die. Cue the music from The Man from La Mancha!

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-10 07:37:31 and read 6522 times.

Hot off the presses. Apparently the plans were presented to the Regional Planning Commission yesterday. Includes a statement from the Mayor's office (of New Orleans).

http://www.businessreport.com/articl...INESSREPORT0112/121009765/0/tagged

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-10 07:55:53 and read 6398 times.

Quoting panpan (Reply 40):
Maybe the new airline will go to the new airport they want to build in the bayou.

On second thought the investor group may be on to something in that there would be no direct competition in Louisiana from http://www.skyhighairlines.com/

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-10 08:11:03 and read 6308 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 66):
No conclusion; the flight deck announced it.
OK, fair enough. Well, I guess you concluded from your one flight into MEM in 2004 that Southwest would never serve MEM because your plane slowed down over Kansas.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 66):
Yep, for the very same reason WN told OAK to move them to the terminal closest to the run-way, which actually involved uprooting other carriers or WN threatened to leave. Given there are a few airports which suffer from delays including LAX at the wrong time of day.

Seriously? Had nothing to do with being in a newer terminal with more gate and bag claim capacity? We're talking about less than 1000 feet here, and only in one of the arrivals-departures configurations.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 66):
Excluding the FL product I have serious doubts we will see WN metal in MEM. The crow is on me if they do.

I believe after CLT and CVG, MEM is the biggest O&D market not currently served by Southwest. Either they will serve MEM or they will stop growing.

[Edited 2012-10-10 08:11:32]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: azstar
Posted 2012-10-10 08:53:12 and read 6026 times.

Somehow, I can't envision multiple dailly, packed flights between Monroe, Alexandria, Shreveport, Baton Rouge. Lake Charles, Lafayette & New Orleans.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-10 09:07:10 and read 5954 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 71):
Well, I guess you concluded from your one flight into MEM in 2004 that Southwest would never serve MEM
Quoting neveragain (Reply 71):
I believe after CLT and CVG, MEM is the biggest O&D market not currently served by Southwest. Either they will serve MEM or they will stop growing.

There's more to it than a single flight. http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/airline-capacity-map.htm Click on Tennessee to see MEM with a significant 18.1% decrease in capacity in 2011-2012. The figures support something is scaring the airlines away whether it be FedEx or another factor. Using your ideology this is a good for WN. I'd run the other way.

Looking at the graph to right as the link opens you'll see MEM is second and not by much to MKE which has fallen off a cliff. .

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: PlaneAdmirer
Posted 2012-10-10 09:19:12 and read 5875 times.

This whole thing is navel gazing. The group that wants to do this wants government money to help fund the move. From the state's and city's perspective it would have to be cheaper to subsidize a few non stops they want to see if the demand generates.

Has the group that is thinking of this shown how much of their own capital they are willing to put up?

Assuming that MSY has the facility capacity, if the demand were there the incumbants would certainly have the ability to meet it.

I feel for F9 and Republic having to deal with the attention this will garner.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-10 09:33:18 and read 5773 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 73):
There's more to it than a single flight. http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/airline-capacity-map.htm Click on Tennessee to see MEM with a significant 18.1% decrease in capacity in 2011-2012. The figures support something is scaring the airlines away whether it be FedEx or another factor. Using your ideology this is a good for WN. I'd run the other way.

Looking at the graph to right as the link opens you'll see MEM is second and not by much to MKE which has fallen off a cliff. .

Yikes. You don't think this has anything to do with DL pulling down the hub in MEM, affecting connecting traffic without affecting originating traffic? By that logic, WN would never have opened PIT, or expanded in SJC, BNA, RDU, or STL. The conditions in MEM are going to be exactly the same as they were in these cities. The long-term effect of DL's hub pulldown can be expected to result in lower fares and stimulated originating passenger traffic.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-10 09:56:26 and read 5621 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 62):
It might be if you're only talking CONUS but I think its in a perfect spot for a Latin American gateway.

You are right I was only thinking about the lower 48 but since this start up is gonna use 330s I think you may be right about a Latin getaway

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-10 09:58:16 and read 5627 times.



Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 73):
There's more to it than a single flight. http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/airline-capacity-map.htm Click on Tennessee to see MEM with a significant 18.1% decrease in capacity in 2011-2012. The figures support something is scaring the airlines away whether it be FedEx or another factor. Using your ideology this is a good for WN. I'd run the other way.

And 99.9% of that is Delta hub cuts.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 66):
Excluding the FL product I have serious doubts we will see WN metal in MEM. The crow is on me if they do.

How can you have doubts when the airlines has said they are coming. Even without that because yes they lie some times how do u have doubts? DL hub cuts, plenty of gates, big city, it fits perfectly.

[Edited 2012-10-10 10:02:29]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: william
Posted 2012-10-10 09:59:18 and read 5632 times.

They plan on keeping the hub in Denver as a western hub but open up an eastern hub in New Orleans.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: azstar
Posted 2012-10-10 10:11:12 and read 5560 times.

Quoting william (Reply 78):
They plan on keeping the hub in Denver as a western hub but open up an eastern hub in New Orleans.

What "hub" will they have left in DEN? They're reducing frequencies dramatically and discontinuing a LOT of service there.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: gustywinds
Posted 2012-10-10 10:30:51 and read 5432 times.

Quoting azstar (Reply 79):
What "hub" will they have left in DEN? They're reducing frequencies dramatically and discontinuing a LOT of service there.

I would'nt expect anything but negative from you. F9 will still have service from DEN to ABQ, ANC, ATL, AUS, AZA, BIL, BIS, BLI, BMI, BNA, BZN, CLE, CUN, CZM, DAY, DCA, DFW, DRO, DSM, DTW, FAI, FAR, FLL, FSD, GEG, GRR, GTF, IAH, IND, LAS, LAX, LGA, LIT, LIR, MCI, MDW, MDT, MKE, MOT, MSN, MSP, MSY, OKC, OMA, PDX, PHF, PHX, PSP, PVR, RSW, SAN, SBA, SEA, SFO, SJD, SJO, SLC, SNA, STL & TPA. And I would not be surprised to see PUJ come back as well as MBJ added. And they will be a mostly Airbus airline by January, but I guess this doesn't count as a hub to you?

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: azstar
Posted 2012-10-10 10:34:04 and read 5380 times.

Quoting gustywinds (Reply 80):
I guess this doesn't count as a hub to you?

Nope. Two to three flights a week to a destination, or one daily flight do not count as a hub to me. Call me crazy.

And BTW, I could be wrong, but I believe the following cities will be discontinued from DEN in the near future.

DAY, DRO, GRR, LIT, PHF, SBA, SNA

[Edited 2012-10-10 10:37:47]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: gustywinds
Posted 2012-10-10 10:35:13 and read 5383 times.

Quoting azstar (Reply 81):
Nope. Two to three flights a week to a destination, or one daily flight do not count as a hub to me. Call me crazy.

You're crazy?

I forgot to add SBN and JAC.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-10 10:38:27 and read 5358 times.

Quoting azstar (Reply 79):

What "hub" will they have left in DEN? They're reducing frequencies dramatically and discontinuing a LOT of service there.

4Q 2012 year-over-year seat capacity changes by airline at DEN:

UA: +1.3% (including CO in 4Q 2011)

WN: +9.2%

F9: -5.6%

All other: +9.1% (95% attributable to NK)

Reductions, yes, but hardly dramatic. (Don't get me wrong, I have my reservations with regard to the long-term sustainability in 3-way airline competition at DEN, but the facts don't support your claim.)

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: azstar
Posted 2012-10-10 10:39:15 and read 5368 times.

Quoting gustywinds (Reply 82):
You're crazy?

Ha Ha! Frontier employees are so cute when they're angry. Don't pay any more attention to me. Carry on.

[Edited 2012-10-10 10:39:52]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: kingcavalier
Posted 2012-10-10 10:42:04 and read 5329 times.

Quoting azstar (Reply 81):
DAY, DRO, GRR, LIT, PHF, SBA, SNA

You are absolutely wrong. These cities aren't going anywhere. SNA is reducing from 4 to 3. SBA will see the Airbus. PHF is going daily. Maybe you are thinking of ICT?

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-10 11:15:57 and read 5140 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 75):
You don't think this has anything to do with DL pulling down the hub in MEM
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 77):
And 99.9% of that is Delta hub cuts

The RITA T-100 data supports DL as a contributing factor of the 18.1 decrease at MEM. Looking back three years, 2010, 2011 and 2012 using the domestic flight originating at MEM. When did DL/NW mergre? http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=2 With that said the data also supports an across the board decrease by most carriers who fly to MEM. The exception being US which showed a increase in 2011. All other carrier data trended south. I checked DL, AA, US, UA/CO, FL, OO, and American Eagle. UA/CO did not populate. I keep in mind WN/FL left MEM in 2012 which explains their 2012 figure below. The root of the conversation remains WN/FL return to MEM? I think not ;at least in the foreseeable future. In summary the data shows the carriers who operate domestically at MEM are reducing capacity. The non-archived T-100 data populates for twelve years for those who may want to analyze further.

Year 2010 2011 2012

AA 1,492; 1,301; 682
DL 15,738; 13,371; 5,643
FL 1,368; 1,364; 345
US 242; 325; 228
UA/CO Not available
American Eagle 1,699; 1,639; 770
Skywest 2,154; 2015; 1,734

I apologize for the appearance of the numerical data. I have little to no control over formatting issues.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-10 11:20:54 and read 5094 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 86):
I keep in mind WN/FL left MEM in 2012

What are you talking about? WN/FL serves MEM-ATL

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-10 11:22:23 and read 5090 times.

Quoting azstar (Reply 81):
Nope. Two to three flights a week to a destination, or one daily flight do not count as a hub to me. Call me crazy.

Is G4 even an airline? This doesn't make sense at all.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-10 11:23:03 and read 5098 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 86):
The RITA T-100 data supports DL as a contributing factor of the 18.1 decrease at MEM

T100 consists of enplaned (originating AND connecting) passenger data, not just originating. Domestic O&D at MEM for 2011 is down 11.4% since its 2007 peak, hardly severe given the national economic recession and in line with what many other airports have experienced.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-10 11:30:51 and read 5071 times.

Quoting azstar (Reply 81):
Nope. Two to three flights a week to a destination, or one daily flight do not count as a hub to me. Call me crazy.

If that is your definition of "hub" then the sooner Frontier "de-hubs" DEN, the happier I shall be.

I yearn for the day that Frontier drops the heavily over-served DEN-ATL and instead starts DEN-SAV - three or four times a week - and DEN-AGS - three or four times a week - and even DEN-CSG - two or maybe three times a week.

And all of them to MCO.

 

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-10 11:54:29 and read 4933 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 87):

My bad, I thought they had pulled the plugged this year just as they did at TYS. Then FL figures for 2012 would be a significant factor of the 18.1 decrease at at MEM. Why would WN metal fly to MEM when the already fly there under the FL brand? I think FL 2012 numbers at MEM tell it all as it relates to WN.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 89):
T100 consists of enplaned (originating AND connecting) passenger data, not just originating. Domestic O&D


That makes total since. We are talking about DL MEM hub and the primary function of a hub is to connect passengers from the spokes. I don't recall reading anything about DL de-hubbing MEM. I don't think I've read anything about CVG be de-hubbed either.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-10-10 12:15:59 and read 4807 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 91):
Then FL figures for 2012 would be a significant factor of the 18.1 decrease at at MEM. Why would WN metal fly to MEM when the already fly there under the FL brand? I think FL 2012 numbers at MEM tell it all as it relates to WN.

I am confused now. Are you saying WN won't ever takeover MEM from AirTran and that MEM will be cut?

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-10 12:25:02 and read 4746 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 89):
T100 consists of enplaned (originating AND connecting) passenger data, not just originating

To clarify the figures I cited above are the T-100 data flight/airframe data at MEM not passenger data. specific passenger data is available in another table. All of the combined reports to my understanding are referred to as T-100 reports or data

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-10-10 12:58:07 and read 4580 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 93):

You have a history of looking for/posting negative comments regarding WN/FL.

I think MEM will end up with MEM-ATL, MEM-MDW, MEM-HOU, MEM-BWI, and MEM-DEN.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-10 13:00:53 and read 4579 times.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 92):
I am confused now. Are you saying WN won't ever takeover MEM from AirTran and that MEM will be cut?

No, I have no crystal ball nor do I work for either company. I do know a little about MEM though.

As a WN stockholder, WN and FL as of today remain two separate companies in Merger & Acquisition (M&A). Until my portfolio reads otherwise I refer to them as two separate companies. I've never flown FL thus I'm not familiar with their product other than thy were born from Valu-Jet.

Ironically some of the federal government refers to the two carriers as one company. The GSA city pairs airline contracts for one. I believe the FAA still regulates them as two separate companies.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-10 13:07:16 and read 4554 times.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 94):
You have a history of looking for/posting negative comments regarding WN/FL.

That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm a fan of WN. You have to remember reading or writing on any social media site is impersonal. Its all subjective to interpretation.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: Bobloblaw
Posted 2012-10-10 13:53:12 and read 4477 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 36):
If that's the case then I'm sure DL would be willing to sell Comair's certificate. It would give them a piece of paper without the liabilities attached.

To a potential competitor????

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: HPRamper
Posted 2012-10-10 16:34:53 and read 4282 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 61):
Why do you think it is better than IAH (keeping in mind the hubs of other airlines in the area)?

Not as far south. I'm not concerned with where hubs of other airlines are because passengers vote based on price, not who else is hubbed nearby.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 61):
Are you referring to MSY or another airport/region?

Either. I don't know what the O&D potential of MSY looks like, but I always thought AUS, SAT and SDF would be interesting alternatives, at least as focus cities if not DEN-sized hubs. And I mean bigger than the poor excuse for a focus city that OMA was.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 62):
It might be if you're only talking CONUS but I think its in a perfect spot for a Latin American gateway.

Is there a lot of traffic between MSY and LatAm destinations that is currently routed through other hubs? The location is good, but that's not the only factor..

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-10 17:51:59 and read 4186 times.

For what it's worth, the city of New Orleans has its doubts about this proposal...as does the director of the airport. Nice, detailed article.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.s...proposed.html#incart_river_default

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-10 18:01:51 and read 4171 times.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 99):
For what it's worth, the city of New Orleans has its doubts about this proposal...as does the director of the airport. Nice, detailed article.

Agreed, it's a good piece.

Perhaps the missing element from the plan is this - since the plan rests on buying Frontier, you'd think they would have at least contacted Frontier, and perhaps get a nod.

But Frontier has denied any contact with them.

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-10 18:15:41 and read 4126 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 100):
Perhaps the missing element from the plan is this - since the plan rests on buying Frontier, you'd think they would have at least contacted Frontier, and perhaps get a nod.

But Frontier has denied any contact with them.

Yeah, very strange. I agree with the Frontier CorpComm when it stated that it's unusual for a website to be created when no contact has been made.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: AIRLINEWATCHER1
Posted 2012-10-10 19:31:46 and read 3983 times.

Would the airline move the hub to MSY, or would it have a dual hub setup in DEN and MSY? I have my doubts that a single hub in MSY is feasible. A small focus city in MSY might work, but hub???

Geographically speaking, Frontier seems like a better fit for the mountain time zone than the deep south. The cuddly animals just don't seem to fit for Louisiana...

A name change might be in order, but the name "New Frontier" doesn't really cut the mustard for me.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2012-10-10 21:51:17 and read 3758 times.

You guys realize that newfrontier website is a joke right? Its a paper airline created for some Embry Riddle Student majoring in Airline Management research project.


An A330 for a domestic carrier - yeah right

and the paint scheme sucks too on top of it -

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2012-10-10 23:23:05 and read 3645 times.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 103):
and the paint scheme sucks too on top of it -

LOL I thought it was just a Thai pic with the orchid removed. About as bad.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-11 04:17:57 and read 3529 times.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 98):
Is there a lot of traffic between MSY and LatAm destinations that is currently routed through other hubs? The location is good, but that's not the only factor..

How ironic you say that, after claiming

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 98):
Not as far south. I'm not concerned with where hubs of other airlines are because passengers vote based on price, not who else is hubbed nearby.

MSY is almost directly east of IAH, they're at the same degree and minute of latitude.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=msy-iah

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: HPRamper
Posted 2012-10-11 06:30:02 and read 3432 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 105):
How ironic you say that, after claiming

Location of a hub might not matter to passengers, but it matters to the airline that has to pay for the fuel based on average stage length.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 105):
MSY is almost directly east of IAH, they're at the same degree and minute of latitude.

My bad. I think I was visualizing something more like SAT. I know where Houston is, honestly. So I can't say MSY is in a better position, but I'll still say it's no worse than IAH.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-11 07:22:40 and read 3362 times.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 98):
Is there a lot of traffic between MSY and LatAm destinations that is currently routed through other hubs? The location is good, but that's not the only factor..

There is...namely to the Central American nations. Not as much to Panama and Costa Rica, but there has always been a decent amount of traffic to El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Belize, and especially Honduras. Most of that nowadays goes through IAH (and to a lesser extent MIA). Remember in the not too distant past, there were multiple weekly nonstops from MSY to SAP, BZE, GUA, RTB, etc.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-11 07:50:39 and read 3307 times.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 106):
My bad. I think I was visualizing something more like SAT. I know where Houston is, honestly. So I can't say MSY is in a better position, but I'll still say it's no worse than IAH.

No worries, if anything it proves the point that from a geographic perspective, MSY is no worse of a location for a hub than IAH. Volume and yield would be the determining factor in its success.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-10-11 08:11:38 and read 3283 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
What a stupid idea. More politicians fooling themselves into thinking they understand the airline industry ...

This would be an unmitigated disaster (see Pride Air, Muse Air, etc.). I'm sure BB will take the deal, however. Pray this dies before BB signs any papers.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-11 08:36:29 and read 3238 times.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 106):
Location of a hub might not matter to passengers

Depending of the time of year,It does for me. AA on numerous occasions offered me a SEA-DFW-DCA or SEA-DFW-BOS routing when I was able to connect through ORD. The few times I flew CO, they routed me through IAH. when CLE was an option. With that said I do avoid ORD across the winter months having got stuck there there for three days with AA.

I can't think of a time when WN offered me SEA-DAL-BWI or SEA-DAL PVD. I don't think either are Wright Amendment protected. 99% of the time on WN was through MDW; on one occasion through BNA and once through LAS.

Unless the traveler is accruing butt-in-seat miles I can't fathom why people fly so far south only to fly north. The exception might be a mileage award flight with limited selection. AS with partner AA routed me Juneau-SEA-SJC-DFW-BNA I switched over to AA at SJC which was a pain in that AA and AS flew out of two different terminals which involved exiting the terminal and either hoofing it to the other terminal or taking one of the airport buses at a airport I had never been previously.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-11 08:42:20 and read 3223 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 110):
I can't think of a time when WN offered me SEA-DAL-BWI or SEA-DAL PVD. I don't think either are Wright Amendment protected.

They most certainly are.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2012-10-11 09:12:43 and read 3184 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
This would be an unmitigated disaster (see Pride Air, Muse Air, etc.).

PrideAir had 16 flights a day from MSY at its peak with 727-100's and -200's during a really poor time, economically, for New Orleans and the entire region. Tough to compare a 1985 start-up (which started up with not much capital to begin with) to today in any respect really. It was a different world back then. Muse Air never had a hub in MSY. They had quite a few flights a day from MSY, but it was a Texas-based airline through and through. When it turned into TranStar the MSY ops grew, but MSY was just a small piece of the puzzle for the airline. Not saying this is going to happen...it won't...but this is not like the two examples you gave in any way shape or form.

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
I'm sure BB will take the deal, however.

Doesn't really matter what he thinks... the city of New Orleans isn't going along with this deal. It won't even reach BB's desk.

[Edited 2012-10-11 09:14:32]

[Edited 2012-10-11 09:16:03]

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-10-11 10:14:52 and read 3096 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 111):

I stand corrected.

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-10-11 11:04:40 and read 3053 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 109):
This would be an unmitigated disaster (see Pride Air, Muse Air, etc.). I'm sure BB will take the deal, however. Pray this dies before BB signs any papers.

What deal?

The prime mover, John Miller, doesn't have the money, can't get state support and hasn't even rung BB to say g'day.

Oh - and Mike Boyd is threatening to sue Miller unless he removes all references to Boyd from the submission.  

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-10-11 16:36:18 and read 2863 times.

I think F9 should sue or do whatever is needed to get this page down ASAP...its rediculous that some student could create something like this in the first place

Topic: RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2012-10-11 21:11:32 and read 2702 times.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 115):
I think F9 should sue or do whatever is needed to get this page down ASAP...its rediculous that some student could create something like this in the first place

If it fooled several people on airliners.net thinking it was legit, who knows how many people totaily clueless about the airline industry it would fool.


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