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Topic: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-10-30 13:21:47 and read 17454 times.

Rumors had been brewing the last few weeks, but AA today made it official that first delivery of the 777-300ER will slip some 7-weeks till January 31, 2013 now.

Delay is being attributed to ongoing issues related to the new first class seat product.

Originally two air frames were expected to be delivered in December.

Story:
New American Airlines airplane will be delayed seven weeks
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...-will-be-delayed-seven-weeks.html/

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Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-10-30 14:11:01 and read 16979 times.

Well, thats a bit disappointing. Was really hoping they would get them in service before the end of the year. I wonder what the seat issue is?

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: BMI727
Posted 2012-10-30 18:54:38 and read 13743 times.

How would this delay go contractually? As I understand it, seats are buyer furnished equipment, so if the plane cannot be completed wouldn't AA be on the hook to Boeing? And of course they would want to seek compensation from the seat manufacturer. But, why would American delay delivery? Couldn't they just take delivery of the plane and then install the seats themselves when they arrive so Boeing won't have to make accommodations?

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: cloud4000
Posted 2012-10-30 19:10:53 and read 13478 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
How would this delay go contractually? As I understand it, seats are buyer furnished equipment, so if the plane cannot be completed wouldn't AA be on the hook to Boeing? And of course they would want to seek compensation from the seat manufacturer. But, why would American delay delivery? Couldn't they just take delivery of the plane and then install the seats themselves when they arrive so Boeing won't have to make accommodations?

Depends on what AA contract with Boeing states. A big customer like AA might get generous provision like slipping date of delivery. And it's only 7-weeks, not 6-months. And from AA's perspective, why pay a loan of an aircraft that is sitting on the ground for 7-weeks right after delivery.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2012-10-30 20:30:44 and read 12458 times.

To say I am disappointed is a great understatement! I wonder if they will also delay application of the livery now as well?

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: bigbird
Posted 2012-10-31 04:09:49 and read 9803 times.

January 31 is also the day that they have to file their reorginazation plan. Remember it was extended by 30 days by the court a few days ago. What a coincidence!!!!!

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: MCIGuy
Posted 2012-10-31 06:00:13 and read 8930 times.

Quoting bigbird (Reply 5):
January 31 is also the day that they have to file their reorginazation plan. Remember it was extended by 30 days by the court a few days ago. What a coincidence!!!!!

  

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 4):
I wonder if they will also delay application of the livery now as well?

My guess is yes, they will delay the new paint, especially since these birds will be outside. Seems like AA is keeping the new brand a closely held secret.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2012-10-31 08:20:32 and read 7730 times.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
But, why would American delay delivery? Couldn't they just take delivery of the plane and then install the seats themselves when they arrive so Boeing won't have to make accommodations?



Certification can be a little tricky. The configuration would need to be certified without the seats installed and then re-certified by American after the subsequent installation. Since AA won't operate the airplane without the seats, waiting is probably a better option.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: LMP737
Posted 2012-10-31 09:11:44 and read 7266 times.

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 3):
Depends on what AA contract with Boeing states. A big customer like AA might get generous provision like slipping date of delivery. And it's only 7-weeks, not 6-months. And from AA's perspective, why pay a loan of an aircraft that is sitting on the ground for 7-weeks right after delivery.

Passenger seats are what are commonly referred to in the industry as "customer furnished". In other words when an airline orders a plane they pick which seat manufacturer is going to supply the seats and the maker supplies them to Boeing. If the seats are late that's not Boeings fault. Now who the airline goes after becasue of the seats I'm not a 100% sure of. What I am pretty sure of is that Boeing will not be the one paying the cost of it.

Quoting seahawks7757 (Reply 5):
Honestly though my money is on disgruntled employees.

My money is on either an error at an MRO, AA started contracting out some 757 last year, or an error at TULE. Becaue in all my years in the airline business I have never come across a case of deliberate sabotage.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2012-10-31 09:38:52 and read 7022 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
AA today made it official that first delivery of the 777-300ER will slip some 7-weeks till January 31, 2013 now.

AA made official the first revenue flight has been delayed, but did not discuss the actual delivery date. Delivery of the aircraft and first revenue flight will not occur on the same day. AA was scheduled to take delivery of the new bird on/around November 17, with the first revenue flight on December 13. So the 77W should be on property well before the first revenue flight. If we're going to use the same seven week slip, I think we can anticipate delivery to come around the end of the year, or very beginning of January.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-10-31 12:06:45 and read 6021 times.

Quoting cloud4000 (Reply 3):
Depends on what AA contract with Boeing states. A big customer like AA might get generous provision like slipping date of delivery. And it's only 7-weeks, not 6-months. And from AA's perspective, why pay a loan of an aircraft that is sitting on the ground for 7-weeks right after delivery.

On the other hand, that aircraft has capital value, so the owner (which would still be Boeing) might have to pay taxes on that aircraft if they are in possession come 12:01 AM 1/1/13. I wonder how that gets handled.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: Josh32121
Posted 2012-10-31 12:55:13 and read 5641 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
On the other hand, that aircraft has capital value, so the owner (which would still be Boeing) might have to pay taxes on that aircraft if they are in possession come 12:01 AM 1/1/13. I wonder how that gets handled.

The aircraft is inventory until it's delivered, and business inventories are exempt from property tax in Washington. From AA's perspective, it's taxable value would probably be apportioned among multiple jurisdictions (if it's not exempt or taxed in a different way entirely under some other provision in the law), and the lien dates could be different in those other jurisdictions.

Regardless of the reason, my bet is that the deferred delivery date is tied in some way to the bankruptcy proceedings. Perhaps the seat supplier wasn't willing to supply the seats without a cash deposit that or 100% prepayment that AA wasn't willing to make or couldn't make. Who knows?

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-10-31 23:34:59 and read 5053 times.

Probably delayed due to the negative backlash regarding the new livery which continues to be kept under wraps... 

How many B77W on order...

EK413

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-11-04 09:55:06 and read 4472 times.

Schedules were updated last night for 77W usage.

DFW-GRU delayed from 12/13 till 1/31 - then 3x weekly AA963/962
DFW-LHR delayed from 1/30 till 3/2 - then daily AA050/AA079
JFK-LHR delayed from 2/14 till 3/15 - then daily AA100/139
JFK-GRU delayed from 4/1 till 4/11 - then daily AA951/950
LAX-LHR delayed from 5/1 till 6/12 - then daily AA136/135

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Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: readytotaxi
Posted 2012-11-04 10:11:11 and read 4387 times.

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 11):
Regardless of the reason, my bet is that the deferred delivery date is tied in some way to the bankruptcy proceedings. Perhaps the seat supplier wasn't willing to supply the seats without a cash deposit that or 100% prepayment that AA wasn't willing to make or couldn't make.

that has a ring of common sense about, everyone hedging their bets.  

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2012-11-04 11:04:07 and read 4204 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):
How many B77W on order...

14

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-04 11:07:25 and read 4195 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

Hmm so none to NRT as of yet. How many is AA supposed to get by the end of 2013?

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-11-04 11:10:40 and read 4166 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
JFK-LHR delayed from 2/14 till 3/15 - then daily AA100/139

Im actually looking to get one of these flights next year, hopefully...

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: American 767
Posted 2012-11-04 11:36:56 and read 4046 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
DFW-GRU delayed from 12/13 till 1/31 - then 3x weekly AA963/962
DFW-LHR delayed from 1/30 till 3/2 - then daily AA050/AA079
JFK-LHR delayed from 2/14 till 3/15 - then daily AA100/139
JFK-GRU delayed from 4/1 till 4/11 - then daily AA951/950
LAX-LHR delayed from 5/1 till 6/12 - then daily AA136/135

I'm sure MIA, a big hub for AA, will see it too at some point. MIA-LHR will probably still be a 772 but MIA-GRU, with 3x daily (currently 2x 772 and 1x 763), might see the 77W at least 1x daily, MIA-GIG also.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 15):
14

14, I'm not sure but at least 10.

If they end up taking delivery of as many as 14, will they add any more 200? Don't they still have a few 200s on order?

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16):
Hmm so none to NRT as of yet.

From LAX and JFK, maybe. But from DFW, SJC and ORD, I don't think so.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-04 12:19:59 and read 3902 times.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
I'm sure MIA, a big hub for AA, will see it too at some point. MIA-LHR will probably still be a 772 but MIA-GRU, with 3x daily (currently 2x 772 and 1x 763), might see the 77W at least 1x daily, MIA-GIG also.

MIALHR is tentatively set for a 77W in Oct13. MIAEZE will also likely see the 77W next winter.

This is all subject to deliveries, obviously.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: PDX88
Posted 2012-11-04 12:48:02 and read 3790 times.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16):
Hmm so none to NRT as of yet.

From LAX and JFK, maybe. But from DFW, SJC and ORD, I don't think so.

AA doesn't fly between JFK-NRT or SJC-NRT anyways.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-11-04 14:20:05 and read 3593 times.

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 20):
AA doesn't fly between JFK-NRT

But they do fly JFK- HND

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-04 15:00:21 and read 3478 times.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
From LAX and JFK, maybe. But from DFW, SJC and ORD, I don't think so.

Yeah I see LAX-NRT being on the docket there, unless that particular route gets over-saturated further   

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 20):
AA doesn't fly between JFK-NRT or SJC-NRT anyways.
Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 21):
But they do fly JFK- HND

I don't know why JFK-NRT isn't a route for AA. Maybe they applied and didn't get it, I don't know. SJC-NRT is definitely a 787 route no matter who flies it.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: ba319-131
Posted 2012-11-04 15:02:15 and read 3467 times.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 17):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
JFK-LHR delayed from 2/14 till 3/15 - then daily AA100/139

Im actually looking to get one of these flights next year, hopefully...

- Not in Y I trust, 10 abreast in 3-4-3 in Y is not my idea of fun!

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-11-04 15:10:19 and read 3424 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I don't know why JFK-NRT isn't a route for AA. Maybe they applied and didn't get it

U.S.-Japan has been Open Skies since late 2010. Any U.S. or Japanese carriers can operate any routes they want between the two countries.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: iFlyLOTs
Posted 2012-11-04 15:13:07 and read 3538 times.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
But from DFW, SJC and ORD, I don't think so.

DFW is the most likely, ORD is in the middle, and I have no idea where SJC came from.. AA hasn't used that as a hub or for any international flights for a long time.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-04 15:30:30 and read 3477 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I don't know why JFK-NRT isn't a route for AA. Maybe they applied and didn't get it

U.S.-Japan has been Open Skies since late 2010. Any U.S. or Japanese carriers can operate any routes they want between the two countries.

Makes me wonder why AA JFK-NRT isn't flying then; maybe it's issues with O.W.'s routing or something, I don't know. I'm not a O.W. or AA enthusiast.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-11-04 16:01:56 and read 3375 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 26):
Makes me wonder why AA JFK-NRT isn't flying then; maybe it's issues with O.W.'s routing or something, I don't know. I'm not a O.W. or AA enthusiast.

AA use to fly JFK-NRT. They dropped it to focus on JFK-HND. Between JL, ANA, DL, and UA over at EWR there really is no need for AA to add another flight to Tokyo.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2012-11-04 20:28:03 and read 3003 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 26):
Makes me wonder why AA JFK-NRT isn't flying then; maybe it's issues with O.W.'s routing or something, I don't know. I'm not a O.W. or AA enthusiast.

As Polot said, AA dropped JFK-NRT in favor of JFK-HND. JL flies JFK-NRT daily, and remember with AA and JL's joint venture, the routes are metal neutral, meaning both airlines profit (or lose) regardless of who's doing the flying.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
14, I'm not sure but at least 10.

If they end up taking delivery of as many as 14, will they add any more 200? Don't they still have a few 200s on order?

They've already converted two 777-200ER orders for the 77W, which brought the total ordered to 14. I personally doubt they'll take delivery of any more -200s.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: OB1504
Posted 2012-11-04 20:41:51 and read 2984 times.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 18):
I'm sure MIA, a big hub for AA, will see it too at some point. MIA-LHR will probably still be a 772 but MIA-GRU, with 3x daily (currently 2x 772 and 1x 763), might see the 77W at least 1x daily, MIA-GIG also.

The 763 flight (AA 929) was upgauged to a 772 this week and will remain as such for the remainder of the high season. I don't think MIA-GIG will see the 773, considering that the 772 doesn't even serve the route year-round.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: American 767
Posted 2012-11-04 21:05:42 and read 2911 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 29):
considering that the 772 doesn't even serve the route year-round.

It does in at least one of the three daily flights. If MIA-GRU won't see the 77W, then MIA-GIG or MIA-EZE will, if not year-round, at least seasonal.

Now as for MIA-LHR, if AA doesn't put the 77W on the MIA-LHR route:

it may still see the 77W but on BA metal, unless BA decides to send the A380 to MIA when they have it. That's what I think will happen in the long run once BA removes the 744 from that route.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-11-04 21:32:31 and read 2856 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I don't know why JFK-NRT isn't a route for AA. Maybe they applied and didn't get it, I don't know.

AA flew JFK-NRT since 2002, and dropped it earlier this year. Its JV partner JAL still operates the route.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
U.S.-Japan has been Open Skies since late 2010. Any U.S. or Japanese carriers can operate any routes they want between the two countries.

Well in practice no - hence why there are still route competitions (eg the current Haneda slot award that is pending).

Little details like slot availability limit access still, and puts the government in place to ration out flights.

Topic: RE: AA First 777-300ER Delivery Delayed Till 2013.
Username: 817Dreamliiner
Posted 2012-11-04 23:28:27 and read 2688 times.

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 23):
- Not in Y I trust, 10 abreast in 3-4-3 in Y is not my idea of fun!

Well not unless I find a J class fare for under £500 which at the moment is kinda unlikely... so im kinda stuck with Y on my budget, however im hoping they would be nice enough to give me an upgrade like BA did on my last trip, but then again AA is not BA   


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