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Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-11-04 06:54:18 and read 9130 times.

How long will United be the only 787 operator of any USA carriers, and how large a fleet of 787's will they have before others arrive? Also, will the current BF product on their 787's be out done by Delta or American?

Personally, while I like the United BF seat enough, but it's already a dated business hard product, it is not good enough to be a BF hard product on a 2 class configuration. Not so long as you have to climb over someone! IMHO

Last, if UA does have a sizable fleet of 787's before anyone else gets their first frame will it be attractive enough to pull fliers in United's direction?

Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2012-11-04 09:14:50 and read 8104 times.

I'm not convinced most fliers (non A-net'ers) care all that much about the a/c type they fly. They tend to look at price, schedule and reputation of the airline etc. The fact the cabin atmosphere will be at a lower altitude and higher humidity should help though.

As to when/if UA's biz class product will be outdone by a domestic carrier, some say that's already happened with DL. I seem to recall AA will be revamping their offerings as they complete the bankruptcy process. Time will tell if UA and shore up their premium yields after a pretty bad 3rd quarter.

I think UA will be the sole 787 domestic operator for a few years. DL ordered 18 788's but I don't think they are due to arrive until late 2015 or later? There is no confirmation that AA has ordered the 787 according to the All Things 787 blog. That leaves UA as the sole operator for some time to come.

[Edited 2012-11-04 09:22:25]

Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: boilerla
Posted 2012-11-04 13:10:52 and read 6141 times.

DL's 788s will not arrive until next decade. DL deferred their (only) 788 order inherited from NW until 2020:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/...g-787-deliveries-to-at-least-2020/

AA has signed a LOI for 42 789s. But the order was never firmed because it required pilot contract renegotiations. Hopefully that'll get resolved soon, but I wouldn't expect them to get any 789s until 2015 at least considering pmCO's 789 order is now scheduled for late 2013/2014.

pmUA's 788 deliveries are scheduled for 2016 (25 firm), and it was speculated at the time that UA would have a new F and J product at that time. Since this all was ordered before the merger I am guessing they will now have to re-think the strategy, but it's still a good bet they will have a new seat by then since they will also be replacing their early build 772s by then.

Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-11-04 13:55:34 and read 5743 times.

I think all of the PMUA ordered B-788s will be converted to the B-789 soon after the PMCO B-789s start to be delivered. The B-788 is a 210+ pax airplane flying out to 8000 nm, while the B-789 is a 250+ flying out to 8500 nm. The B-788 has 4400 ft3 of cargo capacity while the B-789 has 5400 ft3, about 23% more cargo space capacity.

Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-11-04 14:02:49 and read 5654 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):

I agree totally about regular fliers not caring about if their aircraft is an A330 or a 767 etc. However UA has made a lot noise about their 787, and I would "guess" that the 787 has more awareness (to some degree) than most other NEW airplanes, the same goes for the A380. Perhaps the gen pop in Europe is more aware of the A380 and the gen pop in the USA has more awareness of the 787? I am guessing only basing on the "VC10er polling system" by asking the people I know   So my experience is when I ask friends, family and clients / workmates, they all have very top-line knowledge of them both, but often can't say the name (most are still stuck on a 747), some know of the super jumbo with "2 floors" and some know of a very advanced, Eco friendly airplane, and about half my friends know a bit more. There were so many Boeing ads for the "DREAMLINER" that about half parrot that back with "some" of it's benefits. If you are a United frequent flier, it's hard to miss the promotion of United being the "FIRST" US airline to fly her. Not so much through traditional media, but through United's fairly sophisticated social media reach. So..the VC10er Polling System says, there is more gen pop awareness than an A.nutter (or me) may think.

CNN covered this morning's flight too.

At the airport it is much easier for an average dad to point at an A380 and say to his son "look junior! It's the new super jumbo" than point to a 787 due to the fact a 787 doesn't look that different than a 767 or 777 to dad. Maybe?

But it is a feather in United's hat, and United needs as many feathers as possible IMHO. But as for the UABF* seats, I haven't flown in a new Delta Elite seat, but from the pictures...yes, it is better because you need not to contort oneself to get over your seat mate, nor have your neighbor trip over your legs if you're on the aisle. I know that on a 2 class United (sCO) 767 bird people fight for that center seat, ask a United representative on the phone!

People know MUCH more once they experience the flight especially Premium business passengers who fly internationally, they know a lot more. So "IF" a certain number of Delta, US Aiways and American fliers know United's got them, and ONLY United...they could go try it out. And IMHO they get into the current BF seat they may be a bit disappointed (I guess not AA fliers as they still have the worst business seat - for the moment).

Does anyone know how big United's fleet of 787's will be by the time DL takes delivery? I think that is where United may see a positive bump- if all things keep improving.

*one of the reasons I believe United must keep "Global First" is the fact that both versions of their business hard product are just ok, good even, and given my experience in United's First Class (which I think is fabulous) they need to offer that step up option. Even enhance it beyond the new "turn down" service and food..and they really have to blow out the Global First lounges, the current ones at ORD and IAD are SO OLD FASHIONED and so behind their competition it's really pathetic. The one they have in HK comes close, so they can do it if they want to. But, so far all 787's will be 2 class.

Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-04 15:03:53 and read 5147 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
I'm not convinced most fliers (non A-net'ers) care all that much about the a/c type they fly. They tend to look at price, schedule and reputation of the airline etc. The fact the cabin atmosphere will be at a lower altitude and higher humidity should help though.

Well here's something to kind of challenge your argument; when NH took delivery of their 787s, it became a huge media event, and on the timetables, for example, when it shows which equipment is operating the route, the 788 is listed in an outlined print to emphasize that it is flying on a 787 route. In Japan as well, JL and NH always have ads regarding the 787 usage, maybe to promote the use of the domestic airlines over the international airlines.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 2):
DL's 788s will not arrive until next decade. DL deferred their (only) 788 order inherited from NW until 2020:

I keep hearing rumors that the order will be cancelled and replaced with a GE-engined order but I don't hear anything that's straight facts along those lines.

Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: ordjoe
Posted 2012-11-04 15:07:36 and read 5108 times.

Are any 788s going to have a true F cabin, they seem a bit small to have 3 cabins. I suppose UA will be the only with a 787 for quite some time. I am sure AA will get the 789s and DL a few 787s. Obviously US will not be buying unless they get of of that all airbus stance

Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: boilerla
Posted 2012-11-04 16:31:45 and read 4497 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 4):
Does anyone know how big United's fleet of 787's will be by the time DL takes delivery? I think that is where United may see a positive bump- if all things keep improving.

United is scheduled to have at least 50 787s by the end of this decade. Most people expect that number to be more like 75, since UA has 75 options to exercise on top of the 50 firm orders, and the 789 and 78J are logical replacements for the 772s that will need to be replaced by the end of this decade. UA will also have 25 A350s by that time as well, although which variant is up for debate...on the books it's the A359 but many believe it'll be converted to the A35J.

But again, the tail end of the deliveries--the 25 788 orders placed by pre-merger United are expected to have a new first class/business product, since it will also be when the A350 is put into service, and is also when the oldest 772s will be replaced.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):

I'm not convinced most fliers (non A-net'ers) care all that much about the a/c type they fly. They tend to look at price, schedule and reputation of the airline etc. The fact the cabin atmosphere will be at a lower altitude and higher humidity should help though.

I think to a degree that's right, but the 787 is very hyped. All the major news outlets covered UA's 788 flight today, and NH and JL have both said that people are paying a premium to fly on the 787 flights. Whether UA will be able to command a premium remains to be seen, but I wouldn't be surprised especially on routes like IAH-AMS where there is some competition (but not a lot like LAX-NRT), but UA is able to boast about having the 787.

Topic: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: JONC777
Posted 2012-11-04 18:32:38 and read 3656 times.

I keep hearing this rumor about wn being in talks to buy some with an announcement coming soon. . .its from questionable sources but considering how wn is changing I wouldn't say its as an impossibility as it might have been even a few years ago. Anyway, only time will tell.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2012-11-04 19:04:02 and read 3428 times.

By the time DL receives their first 787, I agree UA should have closer to 75 of them of various types. I expect they will eventually replace their 767's and 777's in the UA fleet.

DL has done well with their fleet philosophy but UA's decision to go big on these orders for a newer and more efficient design should pay dividends.

It would be interesting to say the least if WN bought the 787 but I don't know how they can turn a larger a/c like that around very fast. An all Y configured 788 should have over 250 seats. That's over 2x as many folks to move on and off as their 737-700's. To me, the order wouldn't make sense given their route and frequency structure.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: JONC777
Posted 2012-11-04 19:34:02 and read 3247 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 9):
To me, the order wouldn't make sense given their route and frequency structure.

If the rumor is to be believed in full the aircraft would not be used for any part of the current network.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: RamblinMan
Posted 2012-11-04 19:40:30 and read 3191 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 9):
It would be interesting to say the least if WN bought the 787 but I don't know how they can turn a larger a/c like that around very fast. An all Y configured 788 should have over 250 seats. That's over 2x as many folks to move on and off as their 737-700's. To me, the order wouldn't make sense given their route and frequency structure.

They would clearly be for international flights, not hourly MDW-DTW hops.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-04 19:47:00 and read 3156 times.

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 8):
I keep hearing this rumor about wn being in talks to buy some with an announcement coming soon.

I wouldn't take that rumor seriously, at all. also, since no source was provided either.

If the 797 with a composite fuselage were to replace the 737, for example, then WN would totally order 600 of those.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: carpethead
Posted 2012-11-04 19:50:41 and read 3117 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 9):
It would be interesting to say the least if WN bought the 787 but I don't know how they can turn a larger a/c like that around very fast. An all Y configured 788 should have over 250 seats.

Like more than 335 seats. Because that's how many NH configures their 788s in domestic in 9-abreast.

Maybe some of Virgin's 787 order gets transferred to Virgin America.
Unless that happens, the next US carrier to receive 787s will be AA, but sooner than 2015.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-11-04 20:08:29 and read 2988 times.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Personally, while I like the United BF seat enough, but it's already a dated business hard product, it is not good enough to be a BF hard product on a 2 class configuration. Not so long as you have to climb over someone! IMHO

I flew UA BF last week from NRT to SEA and I am not going to lie, it was pretty unimpressive. Granted, it was a non-ITPE configured plane, but the soft product was also not really all that amazing. I was coming off of flying NH in intra-Asia Business Class and TPAC Y class and the difference in crew attitude was like night and day.

That being said, and personal anecdotes aside, I don't think United has plans to install a F class on the 788. The 787s aren't really designed to be glamor aircraft like the A380 or 748-I; rather, they're supposed to be economically efficient aircraft with better fuel-burn capabilities, and to make long "thin" routes a reality. To me, that doesn't really imply a large amount of F demand.

Moreover, with the recent downturn in premium demand, it's more sensible to keep the plane Y/Y+ heavy and rely on a simple 2-class config.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Well here's something to kind of challenge your argument; when NH took delivery of their 787s, it became a huge media event, and on the timetables, for example, when it shows which equipment is operating the route, the 788 is listed in an outlined print to emphasize that it is flying on a 787 route. In Japan as well, JL and NH always have ads regarding the 787 usage, maybe to promote the use of the domestic airlines over the international airlines.

Ya. I flew the NH 788 last week. It was pretty cool! Interestingly, NH used the 788 on its Duty Free ordering cards on all the flights, and the pic on the back looked like a postcard. Very neat!

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: JONC777
Posted 2012-11-04 20:35:12 and read 2849 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
wouldn't take that rumor seriously, at all. also, since no source was provided either.

I wouldnt take any rumor seriously . . .its just chat. . . but the order would be very small initally.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: HOMsAR
Posted 2012-11-05 05:10:18 and read 1552 times.

A WN order would be absolutely 100% counter to their current business plan. Not sure where such a fantasy rumor came up, unless it was an April Fool's joke that someone took seriously.

Southwest would be much better off if they could code-share with someone else providing high-capacity long-haul service. I mean, WN hasn't even flown a single international flight yet (not counting AirTran), and, to my knowledge, still doesn't even have the IT reservation capability to do so.

They haven't flown a single ETOPS revenue flight yet, and we don't know when they'll start service to Hawaii. No chance at all they'll be buying 787s in the near future. I don't even know if their 737 MAX order includes -9s, or just -8s.

The only way I could see WN ordering 787s in the next decade is if they were to actually launch a separate airline for long-haul service.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-11-05 05:13:33 and read 1552 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 14):

So, we basically agree. I'm fine with the BF (business class) on a TATL flight of 6 to 7 hours, I've done it enough. But east coast to Asia, no. But since they are very new I can't imagine UA ripping them out of 2 class birds on ULH either, but if they don't have a good First, then they should upgrade to a Swiss type product. IMHO as United's next CEO  

More on topic, with 50 to 70 787's, and if pax feel the difference the way the 787 is touted, then UA would be able to gain an advantage with fliers. Perhaps they believe if their fleet consists of brand new 737MAX, 787's, A350-1000 (or some VLA e.g 748) - then for the first time in my lifetime United would have a very new and beautiful fleet (within 7 years?) just in time for a new hard product!

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-11-05 05:21:35 and read 1556 times.

Also, why can't United, or anyone else, put a real F class on their 787's? United has 6 GF seats on a 767 right now, and if it needs to be shrunk due to demand, check out the new TAM First Class, in one row configuration on their new 773! Amazing!

Something as nice as that should work fine on a 787, those F seats are intended for their A330's too, correct?

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2012-11-05 06:18:00 and read 1552 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 18):
Also, why can't United, or anyone else, put a real F class on their 787's?

They could. The reason they won't is the prolonged economic downturn has driven down demand for paid F class. There is no upside to giving away F seats to frequent fliers on a "free upgrade." In this sense, the legacy carriers should follow the lead of Virgin America; if you want to fly F, you must pay for F.

Rather than follow that simple economic model, UA and other legacy carriers are simply eliminating F and introducing Y+ seating in back. This is what the public in the US will pay for and the costs to the carriers for giving their frequent fliers "free" upgrades is less in Y+ than in F.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: ual777uk
Posted 2012-11-05 06:33:47 and read 1558 times.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 19):
They could. The reason they won't is the prolonged economic downturn has driven down demand for paid F class. There is no upside to giving away F seats to frequent fliers on a "free upgrade." In this sense, the legacy carriers should follow the lead of Virgin America; if you want to fly F, you must pay for F.

Rather than follow that simple economic model, UA and other legacy carriers are simply eliminating F and introducing Y+ seating in back. This is what the public in the US will pay for and the costs to the carriers for giving their frequent fliers "free" upgrades is less in Y+ than in F.

Are your comments more directed to domestic flying in the US though? I mean, you cannot compare VA to UA offering in F Internationally.

I think there is demand for F albeit UA may have to up their game and make it a truly F experience which punters will pay for and its not just about the upgrade.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 18):
the new TAM First Class, in one row configuration on their new 773! Amazing!

Agreed, that looks wonderful............I am not for those F cabins where you are in a shell and shut away from the rest of the world, like EK and so on.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: JONC777
Posted 2012-11-05 06:57:18 and read 1553 times.

Quoting HOMsAR (Reply 16):
WN hasn't even flown a single international flight yet (not counting AirTran), and, to my knowledge, still doesn't even have the IT reservation capability to do so.

WN will have a new reservation system in place capabale of handeling international reservations and will be using it sometime during 2014.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-11-05 09:49:32 and read 1553 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 18):
Also, why can't United, or anyone else, put a real F class on their 787's? United has 6 GF seats on a 767 right now, and if it needs to be shrunk due to demand, check out the new TAM First Class, in one row configuration on their new 773! Amazing!

I thought I already answered this question. The 787 is not intended to be a glamour aircraft; it's not a huge plane. It's designed to be economically efficient. Most of the 787 launch routes will be 10+ hours on "thinner" segments where there generally isn't a huge demand for paid F seats. UA, or airline XX, for that matter, cannot afford to be flying planes with empty F seats, or F seats filled with non-revs/mileage burners/upgrades/freeloaders etc on 5000 mi+ routes in times like these. Using a J/Y+/Y configuration allows the airline to fly the route and match demand with capacity, rather than flood the market with seats it cannot fill profitably.

UA will keep F on routes where there is a high demand for paid F seats. That is the case with the 763s flying to markets such as ORD-LHR, for instance, but not really so-much for DEN-NRT or IAH-LOS.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 20):
Are your comments more directed to domestic flying in the US though? I mean, you cannot compare VA to UA offering in F Internationally.

If you'll notice across the board, most of the US-based network carriers have ditched the concept of international First Class. US and DL do not offer it, neither did pmCO. AA is re configuring all of their 772s to a 2-class cabin configuration, eliminating F seats and introducing Main Cabin Extra (basically Y+ and EconomyComfort on Delta).

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: as739x
Posted 2012-11-05 10:24:29 and read 1553 times.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 13):
Maybe some of Virgin's 787 order gets transferred to Virgin America.

VX has bigger fish to fry right now, like staying afloat. They don't need to be fooling with a new and larger type.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-11-06 03:41:15 and read 1550 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):

My only point was it could fit an F cabin and perhaps right size it for more paying F pax. (ala TAM) And there are plenty paying F pax out there. Out of IAH I am sure VP + oil execs have it in their contracts like my company does and my 2 primary clients. We get paid F on United or British Airways for very senior global directors. IMHO the interior of a 787 has the potential for glam on the routes that support it.

But if not, then IMHO the current UA "business" seat does not make the cut for a 2 class only configuration. AA is upgrading it's business hard product on it's 772's to offset the loss of F.

And for United 1k's and Global Services a few upgrades to F are not a waste. These folks have chosen to fly United and fork over tens of thousands ($100,000 and more sometimes) - not a bad way to attract those fliers if a handful of those seats are set aside for those coveted international business travelers. It's just part of an airlines loyalty strategies...sometimes!

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: AADC10
Posted 2012-11-06 10:12:13 and read 1599 times.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Last, if UA does have a sizable fleet of 787's before anyone else gets their first frame will it be attractive enough to pull fliers in United's direction?

I do not think the 787 will draw additional passengers for an extended period of time. The newscast hype may send a few customers UA's way and some fanboys but after that, it is just another aircraft. Already there have been complaints about the cramped seating. The features of the 787 for the passenger are largely offset by the seats being smaller than the 772s or 767s. If you like Y in the 744, albeit with seatback IFE (but with the hard thin CO seats) than it is okay, but in a few years it will be nothing to get excited about. It might even be something to avoid for fatasses like myself, unless they go to 10Y in the 772 and A350.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2012-11-07 02:14:43 and read 1627 times.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 25):
I do not think the 787 will draw additional passengers for an extended period of time.

I don't know; I got off of UA1243 IAH-LAX on the 787 last night, and I have to say that it's an absolutely fantastic aircraft up front. Now, in coach, yeah, it's cramped. But it's coach- it always sucks.
The additional cabin pressure and humidity make WAY more difference than I expected; I really figured it was just hype. But at the end of the flight, I and the guy next to me concluded that it was simply as if our living rooms had lifted off the ground a bit, sailed to LA, and then gently set back down. It was THAT calm.
I love the 777 and A330... but the 787 is a better ride. Easily.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2012-11-07 07:17:43 and read 1633 times.

I think folks simply need to get past the notion that Y class on most (if not all) long haul flights will be "cramped." The 787 is a game changer in many ways but also demonstrates that airlines simply will pack as many seats as possible in the back. Narrower seats, 9 across seating and short pitch is simply par for the course.

To a degree, folks have some control over their weight by various means to deal with the narrow seats. However, I haven't found a way to control the fact I'm about 6'3" tall. That makes the short pitch in Y class uncomfortable to say the least. As a result, I do more research to fly airlines that do offer more room and I'm willing to pay extra for it (including Econ Plus/Comfort).

Welcome to CASM land!

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-11-07 07:46:34 and read 1631 times.

The entire premise of 787 is fuel-efficient "long and thin" routings, which is exactly the flights where paid F is minuscule, if any.

Maybe the 787-10X could have 3-class F on JFK-LHR or NRT-LAX one day.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: AADC10
Posted 2012-11-07 12:22:55 and read 1618 times.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 26):
Now, in coach, yeah, it's cramped. But it's coach- it always sucks.

Yes, coach sucks but on the 787 it sucks harder. The seats are narrower than UA configurations of the 767 and 777. They are narrower than most A330 configurations and A320s for that matter. The seats are around the same size as the Boeing narrowbodies and the 747 but the aisles are probably narrower.

After seeing the window shades and LED lighting, I will try to book the 772.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 28):
The entire premise of 787 is fuel-efficient "long and thin" routings, which is exactly the flights where paid F is minuscule, if any.

Not necessarily. UA's investor presentations claim that they plan to shift aircraft around seasonally as some markets have counter seasons and the 787 can operate missions that the 767 could not. Presumably some markets would have 772 service in peak season and 787 in the off season. Of course there are not as many destinations that peak in the winter but UA says there are a few. UA will probably wait and see how 2 class vs 3 class performs and adjust future 787 configurations to match.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: United1
Posted 2012-11-07 12:35:59 and read 1619 times.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 29):
The seats are narrower than UA configurations of the 767 and 777.

By less than 3/4th of an inch....the difference is fairly negligible and really wont be noticed by most. All of UAs Y class seats are between 17 and 18" wide....the 788's are 17.3"

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-11-07 12:37:30 and read 1623 times.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 29):
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 26):
Now, in coach, yeah, it's cramped. But it's coach- it always sucks.

Yes, coach sucks but on the 787 it sucks harder. The seats are narrower than UA configurations of the 767 and 777. They are narrower than most A330 configurations and A320s for that matter. The seats are around the same size as the Boeing narrowbodies and the 747 but the aisles are probably narrower.

If UA plans to operate the 787 on transpacific routes, they will be uncompetitive with JAL and ANA 787s which are both 8-abreast (2-4-2) in Y class.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2012-11-07 13:12:48 and read 1626 times.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 29):
After seeing the window shades and LED lighting, I will try to book the 772.

That's fine for you; having flown on both, however, I will stick with the 787 when available, thank you.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 31):
If UA plans to operate the 787 on transpacific routes, they will be uncompetitive with JAL and ANA 787s which are both 8-abreast (2-4-2) in Y class.

That's true, but to think that the 787 is the BEGINNING of "uncompetitive-ness" between UA and the Pacific carriers is quite false... it is merely a CONTINUATION of that problem.

And, while their BizFist is in a 2-2-2 layout instead of the much-heralded 1-2-1, it's still a very comfortable product (except for the lumbar support.... between my shoulder blades?!?!?), with an acceptable catering "soft product" as well.
And the IFE is terrific- 144 movies on our flight, for example, to say nothing of 100 TV shows (with multiple episodes on top of that number).

So, overall, still a very nice offering for a C/J passenger, and not too bad for coach.
The majority of the width, judging by my eyeball, was taken out of the aisle. The 787 coach aisles are clearly narrower than the A320.

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-11-08 06:16:05 and read 1580 times.

Does anyone know if future 787's will have the full arch entry? Or has UA decided to cheap out and go with something less Star Trek-like   ?

Topic: RE: UA Exclusive 787 Operator The USA, How Long?
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-11-08 07:05:45 and read 1572 times.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 32):
And, while their BizFist is in a 2-2-2 layout instead of the much-heralded 1-2-1, it's still a very comfortable product (except for the lumbar support.... between my shoulder blades?!?!?), with an acceptable catering "soft product" as well.

1-2-1 forces couples who want to sit together be in the center, while 2-2-2 gives you a choice. Also, many 1-2-1 configurations are very angled relative to direction of travel (e.g. CX, AA), which feels awkward at times (the Swiss and ANA version is the exception).


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