Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5608839/

Topic: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-11-12 05:28:12 and read 1760 times.

Quote:
A senior member of United Airlines has said he “love to have” Virgin Atlantic join the Star Alliance amid speculation that the unaligned UK carrier was looking to join the group.

Obviously VS in Star would be very competitive with BA and Oneworld. VS can get in on the AC/UA/LH Trans-Atlantic joint venture.

With regards to the 787:

Quote:
United will “look very closely” at emerging cities in the BRIC nations when it comes to new destinations for its new B787 Dreamliners, a senior member of United has stated.

Schumacher would not be drawn on where the aircraft would be deployed but said it would lead to a host of new destinations in the United network.
http://www.routes-news.com/news/item...e%E2%80%99-virgin-in-star-alliance

Previously, before the merger, CO management had mentioned Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai as possible new 787 destinations. As for other "BRIC" destinations I would speculate GIG (via EWR), DME (via IAD, IAH, ORD or EWR), HKG (via LAX) and CAN (via SFO).

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-11-12 05:30:56 and read 1766 times.

I think this would be a very strategic move for VS. I'm also guessing that this would reinstate the VS/UA codeshare that ended last year?

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-11-12 05:40:40 and read 1766 times.

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
Obviously VS in Star would be very competitive with BA and Oneworld.

Not really.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):
I think this would be a very strategic move for VS.

I'd hope VS would make such a "move" with a strategy in mind.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: fun2fly
Posted 2012-11-12 05:43:04 and read 1766 times.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):
I think this would be a very strategic move for VS. I'm also guessing that this would reinstate the VS/UA codeshare that ended last year?

I beleive both sides would benefit greatly from such a tie up. It brings JFK into the mix for Star and fills that hole nicely. It gives Star customers an hub option in London filling that hole nicely for Star. All around good deal.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-11-12 06:09:47 and read 1771 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 2):
Not really.

Let me rephrase,

VS in Star, and participating in the Trans-Atlantic Joint Venture, would be more competitive than VS joining Skyteam or continuing to go it alone.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: RDH3E
Posted 2012-11-12 06:39:25 and read 1768 times.

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
DME (via IAD, IAH, ORD or EWR)

They simply do not have the aircraft to expand to any more destinations right now. Not to mention they JUST cut IAD-DME this year, I don't think they'd just dip right back in.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: mogandoCI
Posted 2012-11-12 06:47:20 and read 1768 times.

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 3):
I beleive both sides would benefit greatly from such a tie up. It brings JFK into the mix for Star and fills that hole nicely. It gives Star customers an hub option in London filling that hole nicely for Star. All around good deal.

If this is a true, it would greatly benefit Star. Far more valuable than bmi.

Now, if only Star could steal CX, Jet, and VAus, then their global network (excluding deep South America) would be very complete.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: fun2fly
Posted 2012-11-12 06:51:25 and read 1768 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 2):
Not really.

Why not? It's pretty close coverage.

LHR>JFK
DL 3x
VS 4x
BA/AA 10x


EWR>JFK
VS 2x
UA 5x
BA 3x


By alliance from NYC:
Sky 3x
Star/VS 11x
OW: 13x

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-11-12 06:55:13 and read 1772 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
VS in Star, and participating in the Trans-Atlantic Joint Venture, would be more competitive than VS joining Skyteam or continuing to go it alone.

Trust me, I'm no fan of SkyTeam, but what makes the Star Alliance JV more attractive than the SkyTeam JV?

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 7):
Why not? It's pretty close coverage.

Do the calculation for the London side and you'll get the idea.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: ual777uk
Posted 2012-11-12 07:00:11 and read 1771 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
would be more competitive than VS joining Skyteam

I would have thought ST would have loved to have seen VS join them. With UA and VS combined in the NYC market, ST, will go to a very distant third although I will beleive all this when indeed it happens if ever.

I assume that is VS did joing *A they might retreat from ORD and IAD where they are quite weak, leave that to UA and open up other routes?

I am sure that if SRB knows that *A would like them in and UA has played their cards he will be keen to do a deal ASAP.

Interesting times.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: avek00
Posted 2012-11-12 07:11:30 and read 1773 times.

OK, I'll eat crow on this one.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: anstar
Posted 2012-11-12 07:35:29 and read 1773 times.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 9):
I assume that is VS did joing *A they might retreat from ORD and IAD where they are quite weak, leave that to UA and open up other routes?

I doubt they would pull out of IAD as it is a good market for VS with point to point traffic and they would then feed into the IAD hub. They used to do 2 x daily in the summer nefore the recession. Likewise with ORD, it would probably allow that service to return to a year round operation.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: GCT64
Posted 2012-11-12 07:55:15 and read 1771 times.

Quoting anstar (Reply 11):
I doubt they would pull out of IAD as it is a good market for VS with point to point traffic and they would then feed into the IAD hub. They used to do 2 x daily in the summer nefore the recession. Likewise with ORD, it would probably allow that service to return to a year round operation.

IF they join / are allowed to join the AC/UA/LH Trans-Atlantic joint venture, then the profits on the routes are shared and the flights become metal neutral. In this case logic says it might make sense, for efficiency, to not fly VS to IAD but leave that destination entirely to UA. Then, presumably, it depends how much the JV thinks the loss of VS (and adding capacity on UA) will drive pax away from the JV and to someone else (presumably BA). VS does have some considerable cachet with the general public (esp. in the UK) and there is a danger that replacing a VS flight with a UA flight will result in a net loss of pax (even worse for VS/UA, a net gain by BA).

Parochially, as a FF on UA and no status on VS (despite living near LHR), I'm pro VS joining Star and joining the JV (and think it makes sense, as I have said before). Most usefully for me it would give me a Star option for non-stop flights on LHR-BOS-LHR  

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-11-12 08:04:22 and read 1769 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 8):

A few things:


1. Singapore Airlines owns 49% of VS.
2. If you look at some of their codeshare partners, the majority of them are *A members (CA, NZ, NH, SK, SA, SQ, Jet Airways (not technically, but still almost a member))
3. DL and VS recently (within the last year or so) terminated it's codeshare with VS.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: avek00
Posted 2012-11-12 08:07:53 and read 1768 times.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12):
In this case logic says it might make sense, for efficiency, to not fly VS to IAD but leave that destination entirely to UA.

Not necessarily -- it depends on the traffic mix, yields, and scheduling needs. There are scenarios where a UA flight makes more sense (such as the daytime 763 departure), and other instances where a VS 744 or 346, operating alone or alongside a UA flight is more practical (such as for a prime bank hub-to-hub 6pm-ish departure/7am-ish arrival).

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-11-12 08:12:53 and read 1770 times.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 13):
DL and VS recently (within the last year or so) terminated it's codeshare with VS.

As did CO.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-11-12 08:34:48 and read 1767 times.

Quoting STT757 (Thread starter):
Previously, before the merger, CO management had mentioned Bangalore, Hyderabad and Chennai as possible new 787 destinations. As for other "BRIC" destinations I would speculate GIG (via EWR), DME (via IAD, IAH, ORD or EWR), HKG (via LAX) and CAN (via SFO).

I think Smisek was saying a few weeks back that United is looking to deploy the 787s on routes to secondary Chinese cities (i.e. Chengdu, Chongqing, Shenyang, Xi'an, Wuhan, etc). This is a space several of the European/Middle Eastern carriers have moved into recently, and United sees solid potential with the new aircraft.

I don't see cities in Russia nor India as high on the 787 list.

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: kyrone
Posted 2012-11-12 08:36:44 and read 1767 times.

I think ORD would be year round, they would get great transfer feed from UA

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: SQSFO
Posted 2012-11-12 11:35:48 and read 1766 times.

I know that business traffic to secondary cities in China is increasing. However,( and I ask this because I really do not know) will a 787 on those routes be feasible? I was under the presumption that flights out of secondary Chinese cities are cargo heavy, and with the 787 limited cargo space, how successful will these routes be?

Topic: RE: UA Wants VS In Star, Plus UA 787 Speculation
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-11-12 13:06:46 and read 1765 times.

Quoting SQSFO (Reply 18):

I know that business traffic to secondary cities in China is increasing. However,( and I ask this because I really do not know) will a 787 on those routes be feasible? I was under the presumption that flights out of secondary Chinese cities are cargo heavy, and with the 787 limited cargo space, how successful will these routes be?

I think the focus (right now) is less about freight and more about gaining entry to these markets. These cities still boast populations well into the millions, and there is significant demand for travel, albeit on a less-than-daily basis, to US cities. Noticeably, European carriers such as AY, AF, KL and LH have expanded into this space on a 3-4x weekly flights in recent years and they've stuck.

UA has an advantage here with the advent of the 787s since these markets are well-suited for a long-range, but medium-capacity, aircraft; essentially, the "long-thin" routes. To aid these route developments, Star member CA has a base at Chengdu, and soon-to-be Star member Shenzhen Airlines has focus cities at Chongqing and Xi'an, a midst a few smaller partner carriers in inland China, so those will add in smaller contributions as well.

Meanwhile, Chinese carriers are intent on expanding in the US, but allegedly only from their major hubs (i.e. PEK, PVG and CAN), so UA is poised to be completely first-mover on these routes. UA will also be aided by domestic feed, as well as from Latin America, to fill these flights.

So, you have to give United credit for out-of the-box thinking on this one. Of course, usual challenges apply, including network restrictions and Visa limitations, etc.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/