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Topic: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-08 03:23:52 and read 3058 times.

Norwegian presented their New long haul concept and product at a press conference in Oslo today.
the routes are now open for booking on Norwegian.no/.com

Norwegian will present even more destinations this winter.

According to the rumors, candidates are

OSL/ARN- Rio de Janeiro
OSL/ARN- Kuala Lumpur
OSL/ARN- Miami
OSL/ARN- Seoul

Press release:

Today Norwegian will commence the ticket sales for its long-haul flights to New York and Bangkok from Oslo and Stockholm. The company's first long-haul flight will take place between Oslo and New York on May 30, 2013; the first flight between Oslo and Bangkok is on June 1, 2013.

“This is a major milestone in our company’s history and I am very pleased that it is now possible to book tickets to our flights to New York and Bangkok. We look forward to welcoming our passengers on board the brand new Boeing 787 Dreamliner, the most modern and technologically advanced long-haul aircraft in production today,” said CEO Bjørn Kjos.

“Freedom of choice is an important part of Norwegian's business philosophy – also on the intercontinental routes. As we know that travelers have a greater need for ‘that little extra’ on longer flights, we will give those who want the option to order a product which includes larger seats, more leg room, a three-course meal with drinks and checked baggage,” said Kjos. With departures from Bangkok and New York from both Oslo and Stockholm, it is possible to fly Norwegian from Scandinavia to both cities six days a week.

Eight 787 Dreamliners on order so far
Norwegian will take the delivery of its first 787 Dreamliner in April 2013. The second and third Dreamliner will enter the fleet in June and November respectively. Norwegian will take delivery of an additional four aircraft in 2014 and one in 2015.

Oslo - New York three times a week
During the period May 30 to June 24, Norwegian will fly from Oslo Airport Gardermoen (OSL) to New York (JFK) twice a week, on Thursdays and Sundays. From June 25, the number of weekly flights increases to three; on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays. Departure from OSL is 17:30, arriving JFK at 19:30 local time. Departure from JFK is at 21:00, arriving OSL at 10:20 the next day.

Oslo - Bangkok three times a week
Starting June 23, Norwegian will fly twice a week, on Wednesdays and Saturdays, between Oslo Airport Gardermoen (OSL) and Bangkok (BKK). Departure from Oslo is at 09:00 on Wednesdays, arriving BKK at 00:30 local time the next day. On Saturdays departure is at 14:30, arriving BKK at 06:00 local time the following day. From June 25 the number of weekly flights increases to three; on Mondays, Wednesdays and Saturdays. Departure time is 14:30 from OSL, arriving BKK at 06.00 the following day.

Stockholm - New York three times a week
From May 31 to June 25, Norwegian will fly twice a week, on Mondays and Fridays, between Stockholm Arlanda (ARN) and New York (JFK). Departure from ARN is at 17:05 with arrival JKF at 19:30 local time. Departure from JFK is at 21:00 with arrival ARN at 10:45 the next day. From June 26, the number of weekly flights increases to three; on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

Stockholm - Bangkok three times a week
From June 20, Norwegian will fly three times a week; on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays, between Stockholm Arlanda (ARN) and Bangkok (BKK). Departure from ARN is at 14:50, arriving BKK at 06:00 local time the next day. The return flight will depart BKK at 07:30, arriving ARN at 13:45.

[Edited 2012-11-08 03:24:20]

[Edited 2012-11-08 04:02:32]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Opens OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: CityAirline
Posted 2012-11-08 03:28:46 and read 3074 times.

Fantastic!

I was at Norwegian.com searching for other trips when the website all of a sudden couldn't load, everything went stop. Then I heard of the news which explains it all!

So, to summarize, all four routes will be flown thrice weekly. Seems like a good start!
Let us now hope for a success with more frequencies and more routes! 
Good luck DY!

Interesting to notice that the schedule is made to allow for one aircraft to operate one return flight a day. The JFK trip being shorter than BKK makes it possible to use only one, compared to a scenario where they only operate BKK which would require two aircraft a day.


/Alex

[Edited 2012-11-08 03:36:56]

[Edited 2012-11-08 03:39:21]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Opens OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-08 03:36:37 and read 3078 times.

No wonder with fares as low as 1829nok OSL-JFK-OSL  

Topic: RE: Norwegian Opens OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2012-11-08 03:51:36 and read 3080 times.

Misleading thread title.

(Opens) usually means that it has started.
(Plans) Would have been more appropriate.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: EBGflyer
Posted 2012-11-08 04:53:47 and read 3089 times.

Schedule:

Oslo – Bangkok eff 01JUN13
DY7201 OSL0900 – 0030+1BKK 787 3*
DY7201 OSL1430 – 0600+1BKK 787 136

DY7202 BKK0200 – 0845OSL 787 4*
DY7202 BKK0730 – 1415OSL 787 247

DY7201/7202 from 24JUN13 operates Day 136 (Day 247 from BKK)
*Day 3 service with this schedule operates from 01JUN13 to 23JUN13

Oslo – New York JFK eff 30MAY13
DY7001 OSL1730 – 1930JFK 787 47
DY7002 JFK2100 – 1020+1OSL 787 15

DY7001/7002 from 25JUN13 operates Day 247

Stockholm – Bangkok eff 20JUN13
DY7205 ARN1450 – 0600+1BKK 787 246
DY7206 BKK0730 – 1345ARN 787 357

Stockholm – New York JFK eff 31MAY13 (Day 3 from 26JUN13)
DY7005 ARN1705 – 1930JFK 787 15
DY7006 JFK2100 – 1045+1ARN 787 47

DY7005/7006 from 25JUN13 operates Day 135

Interesting times ahead!

Apparently, their new IATA-code DU hasn't been loaded into the system.

I think the JFK-schedule from both ARN and OSL looks ok. I have always preferred myself the SK flight departure times to ORD in the late afternoon rather than the noon departure times to both IAD and EWR. Good thing is that the 2/3 weekly out of ARN and OSL complement each other. Notice how the planes are routed OSL-JFK-ARN. Just like SK are doing.

Personally, I don't find the BKK departure times very attractive. I would always prefer an evening flight out Europe and a midnight flight out of BKK going back to Europe. Only the temporary Thursday return flight gives you that option.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: SAS A340
Posted 2012-11-08 05:21:04 and read 3083 times.

I can say that DY wont have any trouble what so ever to fill the planes to a maximum from ARN..... SAS will feel the pain and also finnair......

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: HELyes
Posted 2012-11-08 06:40:51 and read 3078 times.

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 5):
SAS will feel the pain and also finnair......

Great to see DY starting long hauls, hopefully the connections from HEL improve in the future, don't look very attractive now. Anyway more competition is always welcome.

Finnair sure listen carefully the news from Oslo, but I don't believe they are that worried yet. If DY expands to Japan or China, then it's a different story. I was wondering if AY still own a small slice of DY?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: joost
Posted 2012-11-08 06:47:04 and read 3079 times.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 4):
Notice how the planes are routed OSL-JFK-ARN. Just like SK are dong.

That's only the case for the first 3 weeks of operations, when they only have one 787 available.

Once their second 787 arrives in June, the 2 planes are divided between ARN and OSL.

One aircraft will fly OSL-BKK-OSL-JFK-OSL, the other ARN-BKK-ARN-JFK-ARN. Once weekly, the planes will meet each other at BKK (on Sunday morning) where they can be swapped (for example, for maintenance).

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-08 08:06:12 and read 3077 times.

Great news

Still, it's gonna be 2 - 3 years before they're up to 8 B787 ... A long time ... Hope they will order more longhaul aircraft.

I like the idea of Rio de Janeiro ...

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: p201055r
Posted 2012-11-08 08:23:11 and read 3075 times.

And the announcement seems to have been well received!

http://www.thelocal.se/44320/20121108/

I wonder if this will cause SAS to further delay its quarterly financial report (press report from this [Thursday] morning, pre the Norwegian announcement)?

http://www.thelocal.se/44306/20121108/

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: joost
Posted 2012-11-08 08:32:33 and read 3076 times.

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 1):

Fantastic!
I was at Norwegian.com searching for other trips when the website all of a sudden couldn't load, everything went stop.

And it's still off-line...  Wow!
Quoting CityAirline (Reply 1):
Interesting to notice that the schedule is made to allow for one aircraft to operate one return flight a day. The JFK trip being shorter than BKK makes it possible to use only one, compared to a scenario where they only operate BKK which would require two aircraft a day.


Yes, it's a nice and tight schedule, especially with 2 only aircraft. It's not an uncommon practice. KLM (with a much larger fleet, though) quite often deploys their 747s on AMS-NRT-AMS-JFK-NRT-AMS routings, with similar flight times.

The geographical location of ARN and OSL, the relatively high cruise speed of the 787 (M0.85, A330: M0.82, B777 M0.84), and the anticipated reliability probably make DY think it's possible.

In the first 3 weeks of operation, when they only have one aircraft, they have scheduled 5 round trips per week, so 2 maintenance slots per week to fix teething problems.

In the two-aircraft schedule, both aircraft have one spare / delay / maintenance day scheduled per week.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-08 08:48:00 and read 3079 times.

They just said on the news that there is/was up to 100 bookings pr second today!
No wonder why it's down 

[Edited 2012-11-08 08:48:37]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: kyrone
Posted 2012-11-08 08:54:09 and read 3080 times.

Any thoughts on them adding ORD?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: columba
Posted 2012-11-08 09:16:42 and read 3081 times.

Will definitely try them out to JFK      

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: someone83
Posted 2012-11-08 09:33:29 and read 3077 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
Great news

Still, it's gonna be 2 - 3 years before they're up to 8 B787 ... A long time ... Hope they will order more longhaul aircraft.

The plan is to receive three aircraft in 2013, with the third arriving in November, four in 2014 and one in 2015

Quoting p201055r (Reply 9):
I wonder if this will cause SAS to further delay its quarterly financial report (press report from this [Thursday] morning, pre the Norwegian announcement)?

No, this has nothing to do with this. SAS has their own internal issues regardless of this

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: vadheim
Posted 2012-11-08 09:34:23 and read 3079 times.

I guess they need to add some extra flights soon if they have 100 bookings per second!!!
... but who does'nt want to go to NY for NOK999 one way  

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-08 09:54:14 and read 3081 times.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 14):
The plan is to receive three aircraft in 2013, with the third arriving in November, four in 2014 and one in 2015

As I said 2 - 3 years ..  

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-08 10:17:06 and read 3078 times.

How is the seatcomfort, how many seats do they throw into each row, 8 or 9? and how is the legroom?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: someone83
Posted 2012-11-08 10:19:15 and read 3079 times.

3-3-3 and 31". Apparently limited recline, but the type of seat where the cusion slides forward

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-08 10:19:44 and read 3078 times.

Great news.

It's also expected MIA-OSL/ARN will be announced next. Norwegian has essentially all but confirmed this to MIA officials.

But I wonder where else they will go. Are they trying to be a O&D carrier focusing on holiday destinations? Because Scandanavians are notoriously picky with their holiday destinations: Thailand, Florida, New York. Are they trying to be a network carrier? Will they attempt to build-up demand in potential holiday markets like Beijing and Rio de Janeiro? Interesting to see how this concept plays out. Best of luck to them.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-08 10:55:32 and read 3084 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 19):
But I wonder where else they will go. Are they trying to be a O&D carrier focusing on holiday destinations? Because Scandanavians are notoriously picky with their holiday destinations: Thailand, Florida, New York. Are they trying to be a network carrier? Will they attempt to build-up demand in potential holiday markets like Beijing and Rio de Janeiro? Interesting to see how this concept plays out. Best of luck to them.

As mentioned:

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
According to the rumors, candidates are

OSL/ARN- Rio de Janeiro
OSL/ARN- Kuala Lumpur
OSL/ARN- Miami
OSL/ARN- Seoul


From what I understand, Norwegians aircrafts will be the one with one of the highest numbers of seats. I beleave the number is 291. How much that will be pr. row I don't know ...

[Edited 2012-11-08 10:58:43]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: CityAirline
Posted 2012-11-08 10:59:42 and read 3081 times.

What's the chance of seeing GOT-JFK thirce or four weekly once the other routes are well established and all aircraft are delivered. The route was first announced by DL in 2008, shortly after which the crisis hit and it was canceled. Also BKK would be viable on the maximum frecuency of thrice weekly.
It has frequently been stated that there is a big demand for New York and Bangkok from Gothenburg no question about it, but what does the possibility of DY launching it look like?
With one aircraft deployed at GOT they could do JFK on days 1357 and BKK on days 246.

Comparison: Sure, Oslo is a capital city, has alot of connections and a bigger average income, but do remember that the metro area of Gothenburg is almost as big as the one of Oslo by population.

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 1):
I was at Norwegian.com searching for other trips when the website all of a sudden couldn't load, everything went stop.

Eight hours later and it's still down, amazing!

/Alex

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-08 12:09:08 and read 3082 times.

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 21):
What's the chance of seeing GOT-JFK

I think perhaps Norwegian will start longhaul from CPH before that. But who knows. Plan is apparently also to do longhaul from other european cities, like Paris and Berlin.

With all the long haul pans Norwegian have, I am a little surprised that they have'nt put in an order for adittional longhaul aircraft yet. The B787 is apparently difficult to get in line for for early delivery, so maybe Norwegian also should be looking at other alternatives aircraft, such as the A350 ?

[Edited 2012-11-08 12:11:32]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: robbie86
Posted 2012-11-08 13:10:09 and read 3081 times.

What do you think the chances are to see a ARN-NRT/HND route with DY?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-08 13:16:21 and read 3086 times.

Quoting robbie86 (Reply 23):
What do you think the chances are to see a ARN-NRT/HND route with DY?

I think right now we should wait for the aircraft to be delivered and see how New York and Bangkok works out  

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-08 13:29:06 and read 3470 times.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 18):
3-3-3 and 31". Apparently limited recline, but the type of seat where the cusion slides forward

Ouch, that is narrow for a 10 hour flight.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: LN-KGL
Posted 2012-11-08 14:31:11 and read 3551 times.

Quoting copenhagenboy (Reply 25):
Ouch, that is narrow for a 10 hour flight.

The Norwegian Tourist class seats have the same configuration as United have in their B787 Tourist Class. Talking about seat width; 3+3+3 in B787 is better spaced than a 3+4+3 in B777. Now you can start your search of which airlines that use the 3+4+3 configuration for B777 (tip: Air France is the first airline if you look through them alphabetically).

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: B6JFKH81
Posted 2012-11-08 14:55:23 and read 3737 times.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 4):
Oslo – New York JFK eff 30MAY13
DY7001 OSL1730 – 1930JFK 787 47
DY7002 JFK2100 – 1020+1OSL 787 15
Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 4):
Stockholm – New York JFK eff 31MAY13 (Day 3 from 26JUN13)
DY7005 ARN1705 – 1930JFK 787 15
DY7006 JFK2100 – 1045+1ARN 787 47

YAY!!! I get to see a 787 come in!!   
I am going to re-time my dinner break so I can look out the window and watch it come in at 1930 here at JFK! SO EXCITED!

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-08 15:53:37 and read 3674 times.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 26):
The Norwegian Tourist class seats have the same configuration as United have in their B787 Tourist Class. Talking about seat width; 3+3+3 in B787 is better spaced than a 3+4+3 in B777. Now you can start your search of which airlines that use the 3+4+3 configuration for B777 (tip: Air France is the first airline if you look through them alphabetically).

I know that other airlines do the same, but I still think it is narrow, especially if the legroom is only 31".
I am still so happy, that I can vote against this airlines with my feet and money.



[Edited 2012-11-08 15:59:53]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Sukhoi
Posted 2012-11-08 16:05:29 and read 3685 times.

Is it going to be possible to buy tickets from BKK to JFK? In one ticket. It's a three or four hours waiting in OSl or ARN not so bad!

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: LN-KGL
Posted 2012-11-08 16:34:15 and read 3682 times.

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 29):
Is it going to be possible to buy tickets from BKK to JFK? In one ticket. It's a three or four hours waiting in OSl or ARN not so bad!

Looks like it does, one way ticket BKK-JFK from NOK 3,400 or more.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: HOONS90
Posted 2012-11-08 18:05:56 and read 3694 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
OSL/ARN- Seoul

No way!

That almost sounds too good to be true. I would have thought Tokyo, Beijing and Phuket would be considered before Seoul--a city normally overlooked when it comes to receiving new airline service, especially from Europe.

Would be amazing if it really happens, though.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2012-11-08 18:58:37 and read 3676 times.

Why does it seem the Danes have such a problem with Norwegian?
Especially them going long haul?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-08 19:42:30 and read 3671 times.

The reason for Seoul is that Innovation Norway have been working on a Korea project for several years.
The project aims to get a direct service from Seoul to OSL, serving primarily Korean tourists to Norway.
Similar projects have previously been launched and is the reason why we See direct services from Japan to Norway adapted almost exclusively to the Japanese market.
With the money and support involved, it would not surprise me if DY is the airline to fill that potential.

A direct service to Seoul was for the first time ever lifted as a political topic on a state visit to Norway, when the Korean president and his delegation visited Oslo for a whole week this autum.

That's the reason why I think Seoul will be to find on the map.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Navigator
Posted 2012-11-08 23:39:19 and read 3571 times.

Quoting robbie86 (Reply 23):
What do you think the chances are to see a ARN-NRT/HND route with DY?

It is probably high on Norwegians priority list

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2012-11-08 23:45:35 and read 3598 times.

Why do I get the impression that Norwegian is going to do to SAS what Emirates did to Gulfair?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-09 00:23:44 and read 3572 times.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 32):
Why does it seem the Danes have such a problem with Norwegian?
Especially them going long haul?

I don't think I have problems with Norwegian, other than when I have tried to book with them, I have almost never found cheap tickets.
2 years ago I had to go to Kos, and found out that Norwegian flew direct CPH-Kos. Fine I thought. Do you know what they wanted to charge me? Almost 9000 DKK for a return, including a terrible departure time from Kos in the middle of the night.
The 9000 DKK was no mistake, I tried to book it for two weeks.

Now to longhaul, congrats to the people from Oslo and Stockholm, with the competition and more direct flights.
Now I am living in the Copenhagen area, and I dont always have to fly direct, so I tried to make a booking via Norwegians lowprice calender in july 2013.
Here is what came up with the cheapest ticket:
9 juli: CPH-ARN-BKK: 2024 DKK+548 DKK for luggage, seatreservation and food.
17 juli: BKK-ARN-BKK 3039 DKK+548 DKK.
Total: 6159 DKK.
Take into account that I have to wait 4:50 hours on the outbound flight in ARN and 3:30 hours on the inbound, that can of course change, I don't find the ticket that special cheap or LCC.

I can also choose to fly with Austrian Airlines on 8 juli and return 16 juli:
5475 DKK, all included with a transit time in Vienna of 0:30 minutes on the outbound and 1:45 hours on the inbound.

What would you choose?

PS I will be the first to admit, that the price can change and be different in other dates and periodes, this is just one small reality check.

[Edited 2012-11-09 00:46:43]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: EBGflyer
Posted 2012-11-09 01:29:38 and read 3524 times.

Quoting copenhagenboy (Reply 36):
I don't think I have problems with Norwegian, other than when I have tried to book with them, I have almost never found cheap tickets.

I don't have a problem either with Norwegian. In fact, I welcome another possibility for decent one-way wares. With many of the legacy carriers, you usually have to book a return flight in economy in order to get a low fare.

But having said that, I think we should take these prices with a grain of salt. At a day of announcement it is obvious that these prices are being offered at a 'promo' price. I'm wondering what the average normal price will be. Promo prices can be found with all airlines. Earlier this year I was in BKK with Swiss for 3500 kr. The year before with Lufthansa in Singapore for 3600 kr. These fares can be found at times with low demand and well below what you'd normally pay. But what would you normally pay? I that regard I doubt DU will be a lot cheaper.

In quite a few instances where flying with Norwegian could have been relevant, I have found them not to be cheaper than other offerings and with less attractive schedule. I like arriving back in CPH late in the evening - not early Sunday morning.

I think however, Norwegian have succeeded with a very efficient marketing strategy making people believe you are getting value for money. SAS has to work a bit on that  

Just searched for fares to BKK in June. DU wasn't flying on the dates I wanted to go, so had to adjust a bit (Doing one search is probably not representative of the general price level, but this is the first I found).
Outbound June 1 - Return June 13

Norwegian: CPH-OSL-BKK-OSL-BKK = 5.311 DKR + 1.096 DKR (Plus-bundle) = 6.407 DKR
Finnair: CPH-HEL-BKK-HEL-CPH: 3.963 DKR
Turkish: CPH-IST-BKK-IST-CPH : 4.148 DKR
Emirates: CPH-DXB-BKK-DXB-CPH: 4.597 DKR

This doesn't surprise me at all. I think in general DU won't capture much of the Danish market to Asia as there is a lot of competition from not least the Middle Eastern Carriers.

I think they can have more success on the JFK-route if capacity is adjusted accordingly and with less competition from cost efficient carriers.

[Edited 2012-11-09 01:58:13]

[Edited 2012-11-09 02:07:54]

[Edited 2012-11-09 02:14:34]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: sweair
Posted 2012-11-09 01:37:01 and read 3517 times.

To find good deals, never fly during high season, prices double or triple when schools have holidays. I don't like when its too crowded anyway. And why leave Scandinavia during the good time in the summer, its now in November its the worst to live here and the monsoon in SE Asia is over.

I never have vacations in the summer, I go when others don't go, hotels and every thing is 50%   And I don't have to feel like in a sardine can.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Fly2yyz
Posted 2012-11-09 01:50:02 and read 3511 times.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 31):

That is exactly what I was thinking! To have a non-stop OSL-ICN would be incredible if it happened. It makes me think about the ad campaign that the Norwegian Tourism has at Jongno 3-ga, or maybe another, subway station in Seoul...where walls are plastered with gorgeous images of Norway!

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-09 03:04:44 and read 3467 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 38):
To find good deals, never fly during high season, prices double or triple when schools have holidays. I don't like when its too crowded anyway. And why leave Scandinavia during the good time in the summer, its now in November its the worst to live here and the monsoon in SE Asia is over.

I never have vacations in the summer, I go when others don't go, hotels and every thing is 50% And I don't have to feel like in a sardine can.

Yes that is correct, but I and EBGflyer are just comparing fares on certains days from CPH with a stopover, being it low or high season.

At least next summer from CPH, DY can not compete on the fares, if you are willing to make a stopover.

BTW not all people are going to SE Asia for vacation, even in the summer.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Flying Belgian
Posted 2012-11-09 03:19:40 and read 3478 times.

Will all those flights be with thaï cabin crew ?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-09 04:34:16 and read 3471 times.

Norwegian are opening a service from OSL and ARN to JFK/BKK. They said clearly on the press conference that these two services where exclusively launched to primarily serve the O&D markets.

Discussing the lack of low fares and bad connections from Copenhagen does really not fit into what they presented yesterday!

Norwegian's first Dreamliner will arrive OSL on the 22,23 or 24th of April 2013. It will be used for intra European flights for 4 weeks untill its ready for its first revenue service to JFK.


Some other interesting facts:

All pilots for their first 2 Dreamliners have signed their contracts with Norwegian.

Norwegian knew they would receive a lot of applications for the crew positions and listed several requirements such as a bachelor degree. Even with this requirements, Norwegian received over 1.800 applications in their first round of hiring.

23 pilots and 70 cabin crews are hired pr Dreamliner

42 cm pitch in Premium economy (32 seats)

Norwegian are in discussion to acquire more Dreamliners with deliveries starting from 2015.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: sweair
Posted 2012-11-09 05:09:47 and read 3459 times.

Will they take new ones or some from the terrible teens? Good deals could be made for the terrible teens? But maybe they are spoken for already? And these early ones in storage take more than 6 month of rework, not very fast deliveries.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: arn777
Posted 2012-11-09 06:35:19 and read 3439 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
OSL/ARN- Rio de Janeiro
OSL/ARN- Kuala Lumpur
OSL/ARN- Miami
OSL/ARN- Seoul

MIA for sure. I also think HKT is a good canditate but I guess we'll see some time in February when their 3rd machine is confirmed for delivery next fall..

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-09 06:48:42 and read 3442 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 42):
Discussing the lack of low fares and bad connections from Copenhagen does really not fit into what they presented yesterday!

Well okay, but sad for all the people living in the south of Sweden.
Why do they not want to attract these customers?

[Edited 2012-11-09 06:52:11]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2012-11-09 07:16:35 and read 3430 times.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 32):

Why does it seem the Danes have such a problem with Norwegian?
Especially them going long haul?

No problem with DY at all. I welcome more competition. Best for the customers.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: AF086
Posted 2012-11-09 07:46:25 and read 3432 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
I like the idea of Rio de Janeiro ...

You and the large number of norwegian companies with business there in the energy sector.  

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: CO764
Posted 2012-11-09 09:54:50 and read 3416 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 42):
It will be used for intra European flights for 4 weeks

Any chance you know what routes those may be?

Crossing my fingers for ORY...

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2012-11-09 12:58:48 and read 3388 times.

Looks like they are hiring contract pilots to be based in BKK. I would have assumed they base in Europe, but I guess if BKK goes to both ARN and OSL that might make things easier?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-09 15:27:10 and read 3387 times.

You can read about Norwegian's longhaul for USA and ASIA flights here. Food, inflight entertainment and what is included in the various pricecategories etc:

http://www.norwegian.com/uk/travel-information/travel-services/

http://www.norwegian.com/uk/travel-i...ertainment/north-america-and-asia/

*
*
*

Posted 2012-11-09 23:03:16 and read 3362 times.

Quoting arn777 (Reply 44):
MIA for sure

Even if Norwegian maybe has talked about MIA I doubt that route would be ahead of for instance LAX, SEA or even Washington. I even doubt MIA would open at all. But I have not checked their plans closely here, Im just speculating since there is not a lot traffic going through to MIA from Scandinavia that could sustain any regular route year round. MIA was popular in the 70:s and 80:s but not so much anymore... Northwest, Tower Air and Air Florida flew from ARN for a while but I doubt it would be profitable now even if they may start it. So much for my speculation  

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-10 00:07:13 and read 3356 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 51):
. I even doubt MIA would open at all. But I have not checked their plans closely here, I'm just speculating since there is not a lot traffic going through to MIA from Scandinavia that could sustain any regular route year round

If that's your opinion, you have really not done your homework. Florida with Orlando, Miami and Fort Lauderdale are largest state for visitors in the US in terms of arrivals from Norway and Sweden after EWR and JFK. MIA is also among the most undeserved routes from HEL and CPH. 2 or 3 weekly in the winter would most definitely be a hit.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: sweair
Posted 2012-11-10 01:30:24 and read 3349 times.

I went to MIA on Tower Air, I still remember that they had quite worn gear back then and we had to dump fuel and land in Labrador somewhere as a lady developed breathing problems on the way back, I think there was a doctor on board and he had to cut a breathing whole in the throat with whatever was on board. I used to have a big family in MIA back then, none left sadly.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: joost
Posted 2012-11-10 01:45:56 and read 3344 times.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 49):
Looks like they are hiring contract pilots to be based in BKK. I would have assumed they base in Europe, but I guess if BKK goes to both ARN and OSL that might make things easier?

Most of all, hiring outside Europe is in order to avoid expensive taxes.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-10 01:51:51 and read 3338 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 51):
Air Florida flew from ARN for a while

From Oslo too back in 82

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Navigator
Posted 2012-11-10 04:27:39 and read 3316 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 52):
If that's your opinion, you have really not done your homework. Florida with Orlando, Miami and Fort Lauderdale are largest state for visitors in the US in terms of arrivals from Norway and Sweden after EWR and JFK. MIA is also among the most undeserved routes from HEL and CPH. 2 or 3 weekly in the winter would most definitely be a hit.

I suspect you are wrong here but you could also be right. Id like to see statistics. There is a marked difference between MIA, FLL and MCO. The latter two probably more popular now,right? However with your statement I would like to hear where you put Chicago, Washington and Los Angeles. I would suspect they are ahead in terms of traffic from ARN. Also remember that traffic from OSL probably differs from ARN in that the latter has more business traffic. I agree that FLL draws traffic to the cruises but now MIA is a different thing. You may be right, but pls show this.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-10 05:06:53 and read 3317 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 56):
. However with your statement I would like to hear where you put Chicago, Washington and Los Angeles. I would suspect they are ahead in terms of traffic from ARN
Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 52):
Florida with Orlando, Miami and Fort Lauderdale are largest state for visitors in the US in terms of arrivals from Norway and Sweden after EWR and JFK

From what I learned in my geography, Washington, Los Angeles and Chicago are not in the same state 
My point is that Miami will serve as an attractive connection to the whole of Florida for leisure pax flying in with DY.

It's by the way Norwegin who have said that Miami will be one of it's next destination.
I'm just quoting their plans.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Navigator
Posted 2012-11-10 05:25:23 and read 3310 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 57):
From what I learned in my geography, Washington, Los Angeles and Chicago are not in the same state
My point is that Miami will serve as an attractive connection to the whole of Florida for leisure pax flying in with DY.

It's by the way Norwegin who have said that Miami will be one of it's next destination.
I'm just quoting their plans.

I skip you geography joke   you started talking about Florida as a state, I stick to destinations... But firstly I think there is a marked difference between traffic from ARN to the US and OSL to the US. I think OSL may have more traffic to MIA while ARN with other patterns and more business travel will have markedly less. ARN will probably also have more potential to LAX, ORD, IAH and others than MIA and also more to LAX, ORD and IAH than OSL. You can prove me wrong if you like   Also Norwegians MIA plans probably have to do with catering for Norwegian traffic rather than Swedish... Just a thought

And also those are rumors... (Have we heard rumors before from OSL...)

[Edited 2012-11-10 05:29:28]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Navigator
Posted 2012-11-10 07:26:40 and read 3298 times.

By the way in previous message I mean IAD and not IAH. I also think SFO has more potential than MIA. And for swedish travelers California has more potential than Florida...

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: HELyes
Posted 2012-11-10 09:25:32 and read 3297 times.

Quoting copenhagenboy (Reply 25):
3-3-3 and 31". Apparently limited recline, but the type of seat where the cusion slides forward
Quoting copenhagenboy (Reply 25):
Ouch, that is narrow for a 10 hour flight.

Ouch was my first reaction too.
LAN Chile also have 3-3-3 on their 787, with the seat width 16.8". Hopefully DY is closer to United's 17.3"... ANA and JAL both have generous 2-4-2 and 18.5", according to SeatGuru.

Seat widths for the comparison:

Singapore 333/773/380: 19"
Finnair wide bodies: 18"
KLM wide bodies: 17.5"

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: sweair
Posted 2012-11-10 09:36:30 and read 3289 times.

Maybe Norwegian will serve ARN like SK never did? Me thinks the swedes will find a new "national" airline  

Those large persons who need above 17 inches of shoulder room have plenty of options, a grand world this!  

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-10 10:14:10 and read 3274 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 56):
. Also remember that traffic from OSL probably differs from ARN in that the latter has more business traffic.

That depends very much on the destination and I'm not only referring to Houston.
Arlanda have approximately 30% more international pax than OSL.
A the same time, most airlines are reporting higher loads of business pax on the flights from OSL, compared to ARN
(you will find many references in the Scandinavian threads on a.net about the airlines reports on business pax from OSL/ARN/CPH) so you statement are not accurate and far from valid as an argument for the premium markets in Scandinavia.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-10 10:18:51 and read 3275 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 58):
I think OSL may have more traffic to MIA while ARN with other patterns and more business travel will have markedly less. ARN will probably also have more potential to LAX, ORD, IAH and others than MIA and also more to LAX, ORD and IAH than OSL. You can prove me wrong if you like  

2011 MIDT traffic figures show that the annual traffic between Stockholm and Miami/Lauderdale is close to 70,000 travelers. Not only is it the second largest U.S.-Sweden market, it is one of the largest U.S.-Europe markets without a non-stop.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-10 10:33:17 and read 3269 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 58):

You know what, I'm totally going to recapitulate on my statement here and give you right 
I looked at the wrong sheet for end destinations and I used the Numbers from Norway as s whole in stead of ARN.
I'm abroad an on my IPhone, so I messed it up here.

The list is EWR/JFK, SFO, LAX, BOS, IAH, MIA, MCO and SEA. (in that order).
MCO and MIA together would make it just under LAX, but larger than SFO.

Again, sorry!

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: HELyes
Posted 2012-11-10 10:44:14 and read 3282 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 61):
Those large persons who need above 17 inches of shoulder room have plenty of options, a grand world this!

I'm a skinny guy who appreciates shoulder room but I certainly will try DY 787 if the price/connections work for me. Great to have a new long haul option!   

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Navigator
Posted 2012-11-10 10:47:54 and read 3278 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 64):
You know what, I'm totally going to recapitulate on my statement here and give you right

You did not need to do that. Ive been in the business long enough to know I was right. But I appreciate you recognizing this. Well done!!

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Navigator
Posted 2012-11-10 10:50:14 and read 3285 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 63):
2011 MIDT traffic figures show that the annual traffic between Stockholm and Miami/Lauderdale is close to 70,000 travelers. Not only is it the second largest U.S.-Sweden market, it is one of the largest U.S.-Europe markets without a non-stop.

You know what? MIA is way down the list. And do not combine two destinations. Check the correction by g2scandinavia.And again I am talking about ARN and I highly doubt it is the second largets Sweden US market because that would be something else... Try to combine SFO and LAX while youre at it  Smile



[Edited 2012-11-10 10:57:41]

[Edited 2012-11-10 10:59:12]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-10 12:16:35 and read 3276 times.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 67):
You know what? MIA is way down the list. And do not combine two destinations. Check the correction by g2scandinavia.And again I am talking about ARN and I highly doubt it is the second largets Sweden US market because that would be something else... Try to combine SFO and LAX while youre at it

No, it's not.

And I'm not combining destinations. Miami and Ft. Lauderdale are 20 minutes apart. Do you want me to not combine JFK and EWR, then? It's the same thing.

I just double checked the numbers, here are 2011 hoardings:

MIACPH: 68,008
MIAARN: 62,090
MIAOSL: 31,530
MIAGOT: 22,223

Facts are facts: it's the second largest U.S.-Sweden market, but the average fare absolutely sucks, barely above $400 each way.

[Edited 2012-11-10 12:25:09]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-10 12:50:49 and read 3264 times.

I beleave Norwegian has a cooperation with Royal Caribbean Cruiselines. Could this be the reason why Norwegian is considering longhaul to Miami ? Do they have plans to expand their cooperation with the cruiseline maybe ?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-10 12:56:36 and read 3280 times.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 69):

I beleave Norwegian has a cooperation with Royal Caribbean Cruiselines. Could this be the reason why Norwegian is considering longhaul to Miami ? Do they have plans to expand their cooperation with the cruiseline maybe ?


Norwegian is considering Miami because the market between Norway/Sweden/Denmark and South Florida is very large.

Miami-Stockholm and Miami-Copenhagen are two of the ten largest unserved U.S.-EU city pairs, including the largest and second largest unserved Miami-EU city pairs. Each market separately is larger than Boston-Zurich or Los Angeles-Moscow. The yield is really bad - its pure vacation traffic - which is why it's not tapped. If anybody can make this kind of market work, it's going to be Norwegian's long haul model. SAS or AA would lose their shirts in the market.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: bBiter
Posted 2012-11-10 13:58:27 and read 3266 times.

I wonder what TG's response to DY's plans will be. SK is dropping BKK in April (?) and TG are the only ones serving the Scandinavian capitals with direct flights. DY's fares are considerably lower and the product is seemingly better.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-10 14:02:36 and read 3266 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 68):
.
MIACPH: 68,008
MIAARN: 62,090
MIAOSL: 31,530
MIAGOT: 22,223

Are you sure on these numbers mah4546?
According to Swedavia and the travel survey for ARN of 2011, MIA had 23206 pax as their end destination (outbound and inbound).
Are you sure these numbers are not for the whole of Sweden?

Also, CPH presents their numbers with its current transfer flow to MIA, meaning that its numbers also includes some of the numbers from OSL and ARN (and other airports with traffic to MIA via CPH). The same with OSL if a passenger travels TRD-OSL-EWR-MIA. However transfer for domestic to international @ OSL are very limited and the numbers are a clear indication of the local market from OSL.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-10 14:15:28 and read 3267 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 72):
Are you sure on these numbers mah4546?
According to Swedavia and the travel survey for ARN of 2011, MIA had 23206 pax as their end destination (outbound and inbound).
Are you sure these numbers are not for the whole of Sweden?

I am absolutely, 100% sure. I have no idea what this Swedish survey is, but the numbers are MIDT data, which is based on Sabre bookings. No idea what you mean about how CPH presents its numbers. In 2011, there 68,000 local passengers between MIA and CPH. That does not include any transfer traffic, unless the person buys two separate tickets.

It is not all of Sweden - notice I gave separate traffic figures for ARN and GOT.

For all of Sweden, in 2011 approximately 946,000 people flew between Sweden and the United States, of which approximately 90,000 went to Miami.

[Edited 2012-11-10 14:18:44]

[Edited 2012-11-10 14:20:18]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-10 22:17:57 and read 3238 times.

Look at the numbers from Swedavia:

http://www.swedavia.com/PageFiles/76...ökning-Arlanda%202012%20(eng).pdf

This are the numbers used by ARN (similar method @ OSL and CPH) that are used in presentations to airlines regarding route opportunities. It's simply because airlines wont share their statistics with the airports and they do therefore use surveys to find the destination numbers. The validity of the OSL survey are set to +/- 12% if i remember correctly. I would presume its no different from ARN as they are using the same method.It works by only presenting end destinations and transfer through the airport. For instance, pax flying LLA- ARN-FRA-EWR would not be counted in the FRA numbers for end destination. Only as pax on LLA-ARN and ARN-EWR.

[Edited 2012-11-10 22:45:56]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-10 22:41:28 and read 3253 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 74):

Look at the numbers from Swedavia:

http://www.swedavia.com/PageFiles/76...ökning-Arlanda%202012%20(eng).pdf


Okay.

Can't believe they wasted their time when Sabre collects this data and makes it available. It's wrong. And if you noticed, the information is grossly outdated (2006) and only takes into account people travelling in the second quarter, which includes the two slowest long-haul travel months of year - April and May. Here are the largest markets between Scandanavia and the United States in 2011. Regardless of what a Swedish travel survey says, MIDT data is accurate, and anything that doesn't agree with it is going to be wrong.

1) NYCCPH ~330 PDEW
2) NYCARN ~315 PDEW
3) NYCOSL ~175 PDEW
4) NYCHEL ~130 PDEW
5) LAXCPH ~105 PDEW
6) MIACPH ~94 PDEW
7) NYCGOT ~87 PDEW
8) MIAARN ~85 PDEW
9) SFOCPH ~83 PDEW
10) MIAHEL ~70 PDEW

It's actually a pretty common uniform pattern for all the major Scandanavian cities: NYC is the largest market by far; Miami is the second largest market, a little ahead of Los Angeles. Then there is quite a drop down to San Francisco often being the fourth largest market. In fact, those are the four largest local markets for every single major Scandanavian city.

The fifth largest market for CPH is Washington; ARN is Chicago; OSL is Houston.


LAXCPH 104

[Edited 2012-11-10 23:05:38]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: EBGflyer
Posted 2012-11-11 08:25:36 and read 3206 times.

Quoting bBiter (Reply 71):
DY's fares are considerably lower and the product is seemingly better

Have you done a comparison? I couldn't find any extremely low fares.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-11-11 08:42:30 and read 3250 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 75):
Regardless of what a Swedish travel survey says, MIDT data is accurate, and anything that doesn't agree with it is going to be wrong.

Doesn't MIDT data only cover travel agent sales? I didn't think it included carriers' own sales which must be a very significant share of the market now considering the volume of bookings through airline websites. I've been told MIDT data is very incomplete.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: bBiter
Posted 2012-11-11 09:26:13 and read 3257 times.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 76):
Have you done a comparison? I couldn't find any extremely low fares.

DY's OSL-BKK-OSL average fare seem to be around NOK 5000 (including meals,1pc checked luggage and seat reservation), while the average TG fare seems to be NOK 7500.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-11 09:35:15 and read 3249 times.

Quoting bBiter (Reply 71):
DY's fares are considerably lower and the product is seemingly better.

Are you saying that the product of DY will be better than on TG? How and why?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: bBiter
Posted 2012-11-11 09:47:24 and read 3251 times.

Quoting copenhagenboy (Reply 79):
Are you saying that the product of DY will be better than on TG? How and why?

Apart from the "Dreamliner Experience" hype?
Lower cabin pressure
Less ambient noise
Slightly less time to destination
Latest generation IFE
Brand new aircraft

There is however one big drawback: DY's 31 inch seat pitch vs.TG's 32 inches.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-11 10:02:14 and read 3255 times.

Quoting bBiter (Reply 80):
There is however one big drawback: DY's 31 inch seat pitch vs.TG's 32 inches.

And that is the most important for me, and also how many seats their is in a row.

The difference in ARN is even bigger, where TG is flying with the 747. DY 31 inch vs. 34 inch on TG.

I also find the catering and general service on TG to be great, that untill now has not been beaten by any European Airlines.

I really don't care so much about the newest IFE, I like to read in some newpapers and a book when flying longhaul, but I am sure we are all different and have different priorities.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: LN-KGL
Posted 2012-11-11 10:19:27 and read 3246 times.

We know clearly now that you don't want ever to fly with Norwegian on longhaul copenhagenboy. Obviously some else do want to fly with DU or else the ticket prices would have stayed at the introduction level today. Let me also remind you, it is over 6 months to the first departure - and a lot can happen during these over 180 days. Tomorrow is one these days, and I wonder what that brings?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: EBGflyer
Posted 2012-11-11 10:27:16 and read 3261 times.

Quoting copenhagenboy (Reply 81):
And that is the most important for me, and also how many seats their is in a row.

The difference in ARN is even bigger, where TG is flying with the 747. DY 31 inch vs. 34 inch on TG.

DU's 787 will seat 291 pax in a 3-3-3 configuration. ANA and JAL uses 2-4-2 on their 787's. It will be tight, but people want cheap!

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: copenhagenboy
Posted 2012-11-11 10:31:00 and read 3251 times.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 82):
We know clearly now that you don't want ever to fly with Norwegian on longhaul copenhagenboy

I would never say ever, but I think my questions are legitimate.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: bBiter
Posted 2012-11-11 10:31:30 and read 3274 times.

Quoting copenhagenboy (Reply 81):
The difference in ARN is even bigger, where TG is flying with the 747. DY 31 inch vs. 34 inch on TG.


I've flown that route on TG's 744 2-3 times. I didn't much like it. The aircraft on the ARN route are old, have a dated interior and were quite rickety during take-off, sounded like they were about to come apart at any moment. Service was also nowhere near the service level of what one generally comes to expect of SE Asian airlines. However, this was in Y class. I imagine service is quite different when the fare costs 3x.

On the other hand, I find SK's seats on their A330/340 horribly hard. I get "posterior numbness syndrome" ( ) on SK long-haul. After 2-3 CPH-BKK trips I've settled on Lufthansa (trying to stick to *A). However, my next trip to BKK is with AY but in biz-class (they had a promo) so I won't be able to objectively compare AY's Y-class with what I've experienced with TG, SK and LH.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-11 10:38:25 and read 3254 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 75):
Okay.

Can't believe they wasted their time when Sabre collects this data and makes it available. It's wrong. And if you noticed, the information is grossly outdated (2006) and only takes into account people travelling in the second quarter, which includes the two slowest long-haul travel months of year - April and May. Here are the largest markets between Scandanavia and the United States in 2011. Regardless of what a Swedish travel survey says, MIDT data is accurate, and anything that doesn't agree with it is going to be wrong.

1) NYCCPH ~330 PDEW
2) NYCARN ~315 PDEW
3) NYCOSL ~175 PDEW
4) NYCHEL ~130 PDEW
5) LAXCPH ~105 PDEW
6) MIACPH ~94 PDEW
7) NYCGOT ~87 PDEW
8) MIAARN ~85 PDEW
9) SFOCPH ~83 PDEW
10) MIAHEL ~70 PDEW

It's actually a pretty common uniform pattern for all the major Scandanavian cities: NYC is the largest market by far; Miami is the second largest market, a little ahead of Los Angeles. Then there is quite a drop down to San Francisco often being the fourth largest market. In fact, those are the four largest local markets for every single major Scandanavian city.

The fifth largest market for CPH is Washington; ARN is Chicago; OSL is Houston.


LAXCPH 104

Sabre is nothing else but a estimating tool, using some historical data to calculate on estimated pax potentials.
There are several similar companies offering pax numbers and their clients are mostly airlines, not airports.
This is the very reason why most airports present their own statistics as they find it more accurate.I have no doubt that you are presenting the actual output, but it's not the same as presented by ARN/CPH/OSL.

For instance, you report 104.000 pax CPH-LAX-CPH from/to the local market of CPH.
CPH reports 76.000 pax inkl transfer through CPH.

To SFO, you report 83.000 pax. CPH reports 62.000.
To MIA, you report 94.000 pax, CPH reports 61.000.

The same with ARN where you are referring to 315.000 pax to New York. ARN reports 260.000.

It's the same with all the numbers you are presenting.

As long as the airport has agreed to use statistics based on their travel surveys, that's the numbers we should discuss!

Also, Huston is the eleventh, not fifth largest destination from OSL  

[Edited 2012-11-11 10:53:49]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-11 10:47:17 and read 3254 times.

Quoting bBiter (Reply 71):
DY's fares are considerably lower and the product is seemingly better

Norwegian is proabably cheaper, but saying that the product is better is proabably a stretch. I don't think Norwegian will be able to match Thai on food and service ... and it's not really to be expected. Norwegian is a different type of carrier.

[Edited 2012-11-11 10:48:23]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2012-11-11 11:01:09 and read 3262 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Thread starter):
According to the rumors, candidates are

OSL/ARN- Rio de Janeiro
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 8):
I like the idea of Rio de Janeiro ...
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 19):
Are they trying to be a network carrier? Will they attempt to build-up demand in potential holiday markets like Beijing and Rio de Janeiro?

I would say that OSL-GIG is more than just a holiday route. Now with more than 100 Norwegian corps established in Rio, including major ones like Hydro and Statoil, a major bank and financial firms, this is a route that can have an interesting mix of leisure + business. Rio can be another option, no doubt, for leisure.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-11 11:10:12 and read 3264 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 86):
Sabre is nothing else but a estimating tool, using some historical data to calculate on estimated pax potentials.

MIDT data is the most respected, most widely used and considered definitive source for traffic d'état by every segment in the industry.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 86):
To SFO, you report 83.000 pax. CPH reports 62.000.
To MIA, you report 94.000 pax, CPH reports 61.000.

The same with ARN where you are referring to 315.000 pax to New York. ARN reports 260.000.

No. You are reading my numbers completely wrong. I listed PDEW. Multiply PDEW by 730. And, look a that, the numbers roughly line up with what CPH reports.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 77):
Doesn't MIDT data only cover travel agent sales? I didn't think it included carriers' own sales which must be a very significant share of the market now considering the volume of bookings through airline websites. I've been told MIDT data is very incomplete.

No. The data is sourced through Sabre but is adjusted for various factors.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 86):
As long as the airport has agreed to use statistics based on their travel surveys, that's the numbers we should discuss!

Why? And are airport's planning routes? No, airports are not. Airlines are - and I assure you Norwegian doesn't give a damn what Arlanda airport officials learn from interviewing passengers during a three month period in 2006. Norwegian is using MIDT. Have you even read how that Stockholm data was learned? It's extremely outdated firstly - 6 years old! - and not annualized.

I certainly agree there is value in looking at other data - airports often run them to help find "lost" traffic that travels on double tickets - but this Swedish data is grossly outdated and collected in a flawed way.

[Edited 2012-11-11 11:16:21]

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: LN-KGL
Posted 2012-11-11 11:45:57 and read 3255 times.

mah4546, I think the airports won't dare publishing unserved and underserved numbers higher than what they are certain holds water. The airline planners trust these numbers is known. The same can't be said about Amadeus Market Information (MIDT). Amadeus themselves says it "covers all travel agency bookings created in Amadeus on all carriers in every market". In other words, they don't know anything about almost 80% of the tickets bought at Norwegian (I could have said 100% since DY don't have any links with Amadeus). Also other parts of the LCC market is a unknown for Amadeus. Basing a computational model on so many unknowns I would not trust. Isn't there a saying: Carbage in, garbage out.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: CityAirline
Posted 2012-11-12 02:57:20 and read 3203 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 75):
1) NYCCPH ~330 PDEW
2) NYCARN ~315 PDEW
3) NYCOSL ~175 PDEW
4) NYCHEL ~130 PDEW
5) LAXCPH ~105 PDEW
6) MIACPH ~94 PDEW
7) NYCGOT ~87 PDEW
8) MIAARN ~85 PDEW

Interessting numbers that you're all discussing.
Even more intersting is all the fuss about MIA-CPH/ARN and not a word about NYC-GOT, which is obviously a bigger market than MIA-ARN and almost the size of MIA-CPH. On top of that, I beleive that NYC-GOT is considerably higher yielding than the other two routes. Still, no mention of it.

Nevertheless, interesting times ahead for Norwegian, especially from the capitals. I think we can expect them not to be limited by the eight Dreamliner currently on order. If all goes well there will be more aircraft.

/Alex

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: someone83
Posted 2012-11-12 03:18:20 and read 3199 times.

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 91):
Even more intersting is all the fuss about MIA-CPH/ARN and not a word about NYC-GOT, which is obviously a bigger market than MIA-ARN and almost the size of MIA-CPH. On top of that, I beleive that NYC-GOT is considerably higher yielding than the other two routes. Still, no mention of it.

I think one aspect here is the number of possible connections. A route from ARN/CPH to MIA would need and also get a significant number of connections, which GOT with its route doesn't get. And 87 daily passengers to NYC, just isn't enough to justify a route

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: sweair
Posted 2012-11-12 04:12:46 and read 3188 times.

I wonder if Africa will replace SE Asia as a new favorite holiday destination in the future, the east coast of Africa has some nice places and prices should be below SE Asia by now.

Norwegian has an opportunity to grow in new markets and they probably will. SK has its business crowd to tend to, but with more meetings over Internet etc it will be a shrinking group. The environmental propaganda will steep corporations away from flying as much as today.

The modern tourist wants more than a nice beach, they want an adventure, here I can see Africa a big untapped market for adventures/nature experiences.

I don't think Norwegian cares about what groups it attracts, it wants to sell tickets, they have no image to defend.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: g2scandinavia
Posted 2012-11-12 05:07:11 and read 3175 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 93):
Norwegian has an opportunity to grow in new markets and they probably will

It's a very good point you are presenting Sweair. Norwegian have been extremely good in building new destinations and markets. They are more or less defining Norwegian and Swedish travel patterns on many of their European destinations.
I think it will be no difference for DU and that especially ARN have a loot of exciting new IC destinations to look forward to.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: CityAirline
Posted 2012-11-12 05:10:33 and read 3180 times.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 92):
I think one aspect here is the number of possible connections.

Ofcourse, good point.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 92):
And 87 daily passengers to NYC, just isn't enough to justify a route

But 85 and 94 is...?  

Besides, flying thrice a week the number will be higher, and no, all of the passengers wouldn't fly Norwegian, but don't forget that new LCC routes genrate new trips, so the number would be much higher than 87.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: vadheim
Posted 2012-11-12 05:56:54 and read 3180 times.

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 95):
Besides, flying thrice a week the number will be higher, and no, all of the passengers wouldn't fly Norwegian, but don't forget that new LCC routes genrate new trips, so the number would be much higher than 87.

You also have to remember that CPH, OSL and ARN have a 4-5 times larger passenger volume in total than GOT has (i.e. 20million+ each vs. 5M).

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: CityAirline
Posted 2012-11-12 08:01:26 and read 3150 times.

Quoting vadheim (Reply 96):
You also have to remember that CPH, OSL and ARN have a 4-5 times larger passenger volume in total than GOT has (i.e. 20million+ each vs. 5M).

That is exactly waht you can NOT take into consideration.
Those airports see these alrge numbers alot thanks to domestic traffic and transfer. But the O/D demand from these airprots are not 4-5 times larger than the demand from GOT, that I can guarantee you!

An example is that BGO serves more annual passengers than GOT, but the demand for international air travel is alot smaller than from GOT.

/Alex

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-11-12 08:46:53 and read 3140 times.

Quoting g2scandinavia (Reply 42):
Norwegian are in discussion to acquire more Dreamliners with deliveries starting from 2015

Anyone know more about this. When the new deal will be signed and for how many ? And will it still be for the 787 8 or will Norwegian try a bigger variant ?

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-12 09:23:24 and read 3151 times.

Quoting CityAirline (Reply 91):
Even more intersting is all the fuss about MIA-CPH/ARN and not a word about NYC-GOT, which is obviously a bigger market than MIA-ARN and almost the size of MIA-CPH. On top of that, I beleive that NYC-GOT is considerably higher yielding than the other two routes. Still, no mention of it.

I think that's simply because Norwegian has hinted it plans to serve Miami, and has made no indication that it plans to servce long-haul from Gothenberg.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 92):
And 87 daily passengers to NYC, just isn't enough to justify a route

That's 87 PDEW without non-stop service. Non-stop service is a huge demand booster - it stimulates markets short-term by as much as 100% and long-term by 200 to 500%.

One example is MIAZRH, from less than 35 PDEW before Swiss entered in late 1999; to 84 PDEW in 2003; to 170 PDEW today. And service from a national carrier also has the effect of boosting demand from key connecting markets where the airline is also strong - in the same years MIAGVA went from 15 PDEW to 29 PDEW to 55 PDEW.

We are going to see substantial growth in local demand from whatever markets Norwegian enters, even more so than normal because of its low cost model which, while largely unproven for whether or not it will create a profitable operation as long-haul LLC, is well tested and well known to substantially boost demand in city pairs connected.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-11-12 14:00:23 and read 3117 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 89):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 77):
Doesn't MIDT data only cover travel agent sales? I didn't think it included carriers' own sales which must be a very significant share of the market now considering the volume of bookings through airline websites. I've been told MIDT data is very incomplete.

No. The data is sourced through Sabre but is adjusted for various factors.

I can't see any reason for carriers to release their own-sales data to a 3rd party. It can't be better than a guess.

Topic: RE: Norwegian Starting OSL-BKK/JFK And ARN-BKK/JFK
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-11-12 14:08:13 and read 3122 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 100):
I can't see any reason for carriers to release their own-sales data to a 3rd party. It can't be better than a guess.

It's a pretty advanced and pretty accurate "guessing" model. It's an insanely accurate guess, the most widely respected source of airline O&D data and it's actually used by airlines themselves in everything from route planning to government applications for new routes.

And airlines actually do often have to release sales data - they have no choice - because the government requires it, including in the United States, where all traffic data is collected by DOT. Although DOT, to my knowledge, only makes the domestic portion of O&D data readily available to the public.


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