Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5608324/

Topic: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: MountainFlyer
Posted 2012-11-11 11:13:04 and read 2087 times.

This nice article in Bloomberg doesn't really say anything especially new, but it is nice to see SY seems to be doing well.

Several months ago when NK moved into MSP at Terminal 2, many (including myself) were skeptical about SY's ability to compete long term against the larger ULCC. At least so far, that does not seem to be an issue. If anything, the article seems to indicate that SY is in fact benefitting from reduced DL service at MSP vs years past with NW.

Fair use quote:

Quote:
"We've seen no significant impact from either Spirit or Southwest,"

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: JetBlueGuy2006
Posted 2012-11-11 11:42:36 and read 2094 times.

Very interesting article. Seems to be that they have found success with some of the seasonal-turning year around destinations and turning profits

I know in Lansing, they are still happy with the MSP and DCA service. It will be very interesting though, G4 recently started service to SFB, so they have some competition to Orlando. I would love to see them drop MCO, and move it to TPA. I know I would love the direct link to Tampa Bay. It seems if they do that, G4 probably wouldn't move or expand to PIE right away, allowing SY to let the route develop. If they could co-exist in LAN to stimulate traffic away from GRR especially, who has one of the top 15 or 20 most expensive airfares in the county, it would be great.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-11-11 13:07:52 and read 2093 times.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Thread starter):
This nice article in Bloomberg doesn't really say anything especially new, but it is nice to see SY seems to be doing well.

Several months ago when NK moved into MSP at Terminal 2, many (including myself) were skeptical about SY's ability to compete long term against the larger ULCC.

I view NK as an American version of FR, therefore I won't fly them. SY has always been a nice airline to fly. To bad they don't come to DFW anymore.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2012-11-11 13:16:31 and read 2094 times.

You can call me crazy but would sun country ever fly MSP-ATL

Just a thought

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2012-11-11 13:44:29 and read 2096 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
To bad they don't come to DFW anymore.

Ummm, they still fly to DFW.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: CIDFlyer
Posted 2012-11-11 13:54:34 and read 2095 times.

question: I've always known them to be a niche airline from MSP, but what's the deal with LAN? It seems that its the only "feeder" city in its system (most other cities are more destination type). Could we see anymore cities like this from SY?

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: JetBlueGuy2006
Posted 2012-11-11 14:04:25 and read 2095 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 5):
question: I've always known them to be a niche airline from MSP, but what's the deal with LAN? It seems that its the only "feeder" city in its system (most other cities are more destination type).

Sun Country originally came to LAN on a charter contract with Apple Vacations, taking over for USA3000. They wanted to serve DCA, but there were no beyond-perimeter slots available. There were other slots available due to the Republic/Frontier merger. SY applied for LAN-DCA, while acknowledging MSP would be the tag on in both directions (it is even the same flight number (265 MSP-LAN-DCA, 266 DCA-LAN-MSP). The issue arose when it was determined that the slots should not have been reallocated; but the FAA created a new pair for SY, as it wasn't their fault. LAN loved this idea because it would restore service to DC after Independence Air pulled out years ago. They still have the Apple Vacations contract, flying to Cancun, Punta Cana and Puerto Vallarta seasonally. In the past, they have also flown to Jamaca. Sun County has also added Las Vegas and Orlando seasonally to Lansing. There was an article a while back that SY seemed pleased with LAN's performane and hinted that more service may be on the horizon (this was before they announced LAS).

I wouldn't be surprised if they add TPA, and I know the airport would like a direct link to the Northeast (i.e. New York).

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: Flighty
Posted 2012-11-11 14:22:10 and read 2094 times.

SY stands to benefit from the nationwide yield boom. The economy of the USA is actually worse than 2006. SY has always been a relief valve on legacy fares. Legacy fares are in nosebleed territory. SY gains.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: T8KE0FF
Posted 2012-11-11 14:28:52 and read 2097 times.

What happened to their seasonal service to London via Gander that they had going a few years ago?

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: sunking737
Posted 2012-11-11 14:53:17 and read 2096 times.

Quoting T8KE0FF (Reply 8):
What happened to their seasonal service to London via Gander that they had going a few years ago?

Was run for ETOPS experience so they could get long haul DOD flights. Like USA-Japan and USA -Mideast. They are also doing DOJ flights to Hawaii.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-11-12 10:49:42 and read 2092 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
To bad they don't come to DFW anymore.

I'm 99.9% sure I saw a SY 738 at DFW on 09/12/12 when I was at E gates flying out on NK.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: tjwgrr
Posted 2012-11-12 11:08:24 and read 2093 times.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 6):
They wanted to serve DCA, but there were no beyond-perimeter slots available. There were other slots available due to the Republic/Frontier merger. SY applied for LAN-DCA, while acknowledging MSP would be the tag on in both directions (it is even the same flight number (265 MSP-LAN-DCA, 266 DCA-LAN-MSP)

Does SY receive any revenue guarantees from LAN for the DCA service? Obviously Apple provides most of the revenue for their seasonal destinations from LAN.

I've often wondered how many passengers actually fly LAN-DCA-LAN. I suspect most are MSP passengers.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2012-11-12 11:21:57 and read 2094 times.

Good for Sun Country. I've never personally flown them but many of my friends from the twin cities love them. I often see them up here in GFK doing charter flights for the UND football team. They have a sharp looking paint scheme. They seem to have a nice little niche in MSP and hopefully they can give DL some competition on some routes and drive down some of the high fares.
Blue

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: iowaman
Posted 2012-11-12 12:41:19 and read 2092 times.

Also of interest regarding SY and Lansing, Michigan (LAN) and MSP:

LAN-PVR eff 01FEB13 till 05APR13 (Friday's only)
SY539 LAN 0800 – 1145 PVR 738
SY540 PVR 1235 – 1740 LAN 738

LAN-LAS eff 27DEC12 till 08APR13 (twice weekly)
SY147 LAN 0930 – 1045 LAS 738
SY141 LAN1630 – 1745 LAS 738

SY will also be offering new seasonal MSP-TPA (4x weekly) and MSP-Huatulco, Mexico (1x weekly)

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 3):
You can call me crazy but would sun country ever fly MSP-ATL

Just a thought

DL and WN (on FL equipment) both fly MSP-ATL with several daily frequencies. I wouldn't think it would be at the top of their list but I suppose anything is possible. US, DL, and WN all fly PHX-MSP and SY still flies it seasonal even with the competition on that route.

Quoting T8KE0FF (Reply 8):
What happened to their seasonal service to London via Gander that they had going a few years ago?

It operated last year but only from June-August with a switch to LGW instead of STN. I'm not sure if it will be coming back next year or if it operated this year.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: globalflyer
Posted 2012-11-12 12:44:40 and read 2092 times.

I just saw a SY 737 at the int'l terminal "D" at DFW. I do not know where it was going but likely PVR? Also I seriously doubt that ATL would ever see a scheduled MSP-ATL service. Just my opinion.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: DesertAir
Posted 2012-11-12 13:06:32 and read 2092 times.

While living in Tucson I always appreciated seeing their seasonal service from MSP.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: MountainFlyer
Posted 2012-11-12 13:40:09 and read 2092 times.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 14):
Also I seriously doubt that ATL would ever see a scheduled MSP-ATL service. Just my opinion.

Same here. I would imagine DL could kill that in a heartbeat, although would they even try as the most SY could throw at the route is one, maybe two 737s a day. Then again, SY seems to be able to compete at least seasonally on MSP-SEA, a high demand route with both DL and AS on it as well. I was reading a thread from a couple years ago when AS started SEA-MSP, and many were predicting they would knock SY off the route. So far, it hasn't happened. In the summer, the smallest scheduled DL flight on that route is a 752 with most flights being 753 and even a once a day 763. SY manages to throw in a couple flights a day on that route successfully.

They also manage MSP-MCO directly competing with DL and FL (recently switched to WN metal).

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: metjetCEO
Posted 2012-11-12 15:12:59 and read 2093 times.

Out of DFW they go to CUN and MSP year round

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: infiniti329
Posted 2012-11-12 16:40:26 and read 2097 times.

Could this be the next target for WN.? After FL has been fully digested and disappears?

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: planespotting
Posted 2012-11-12 16:42:22 and read 2097 times.

One thing I'd like to point out - this appears to be a Minneapolis Star Tribune article that is reprinted in Bloomberg." Not sourced by Bloomberg Business Week.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 3):
You can call me crazy but would sun country ever fly MSP-ATL

Depends on their cost structure - it's possible they could offer fares low enough on one or two flights a day to compete with DL, but most likely it would be a money-losing venture for them as DL (which contains much NW blood) would easily go $10 lower than any fare SY would offer.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: CIDFlyer
Posted 2012-11-12 16:57:45 and read 2095 times.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 18):
Could this be the next target for WN.? After FL has been fully digested and disappears?

I've often wondered that myself, they could be a target for WN down the road if WN wants more gates at MSP.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 6):

Sun Country originally came to LAN on a charter contract with Apple Vacations, taking over for USA3000. They wanted to serve DCA, but there were no beyond-perimeter slots available. There were other slots available due to the Republic/Frontier merger. SY applied for LAN-DCA, while acknowledging MSP would be the tag on in both directions (it is even the same flight number (265 MSP-LAN-DCA, 266 DCA-LAN-MSP). The issue arose when it was determined that the slots should not have been reallocated; but the FAA created a new pair for SY, as it wasn't their fault. LAN loved this idea because it would restore service to DC after Independence Air pulled out years ago. They still have the Apple Vacations contract, flying to Cancun, Punta Cana and Puerto Vallarta seasonally. In the past, they have also flown to Jamaca. Sun County has also added Las Vegas and Orlando seasonally to Lansing. There was an article a while back that SY seemed pleased with LAN's performane and hinted that more service may be on the horizon (this was before they announced LAS).

I wouldn't be surprised if they add TPA, and I know the airport would like a direct link to the Northeast (i.e. New York).

Interesting...I was wondering, it just seemed out of all their routes LAN seemed so random. I wonder if LAN sends alot of connecting passenger through MSP? They must be doing fairly well there. Good for LAN to have their service.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-11-12 17:44:48 and read 2094 times.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 20):
they could be a target for WN down the road if WN wants more gates at MSP.

There are plenty of un-used gates at MSP and Sun Country operates from their own facility so this stands no merit...

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: metjetCEO
Posted 2012-11-12 18:16:44 and read 2094 times.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 21):
There are plenty of un-used gates at MSP and Sun Country operates from their own facility so this stands no merit...

I believe they share a terminal and about 10 gates with Southwest, Air Tran, Spirit, and a couple International Carriers.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: b757capt
Posted 2012-11-12 18:39:11 and read 2093 times.

LAN-TPA would be full of nothing but low yielding crap. It would never survive.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: freakyrat
Posted 2012-11-12 19:06:45 and read 2093 times.

SY was in DFW today. They were parked on a ramp near the D gates.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2012-11-12 19:45:44 and read 2288 times.

Quoting b757capt (Reply 23):
LAN-TPA would be full of nothing but low yielding crap. It would never survive.

Sun Country flies a lot of low yielding crap and seems to make it work. That's kind of what they specialize in - vacation markets.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-11-12 20:06:18 and read 2267 times.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 24):
SY was in DFW today. They were parked on a ramp near the D gates.

The Sun Country/Apple Vacations schedule for DFW:

http://www.applevacations.com/flight-schedule/dfw-dallas_ft-worth/

mariner

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: freakyrat
Posted 2012-11-13 05:00:36 and read 2272 times.

SY was mentioned as one of the possibilities of flying SBN-EWR if they could get the slots.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: stlgph
Posted 2012-11-13 06:26:27 and read 2256 times.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 25):

I wouldn't really call it crap.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: b757capt
Posted 2012-11-13 18:41:15 and read 2232 times.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 25):

Disagree

Quoting stlgph (Reply 28):

Agree. They fly very good vacation routes that seem to do well. Of course there are a few off routes like DCA that work for other reasons.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-13 18:52:22 and read 2233 times.

SY carries alot of mail, ALOT. I think that can contribute to some of their success.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: SYfan100
Posted 2012-11-13 18:57:34 and read 2256 times.

SY is a very good Airline in which I have flown on them several times. Would rather fly on a 737-800 with them then a MD-90 with Delta to DCA.
Customer Service is very good besides if you notice Boston is now year round along with a ton of other popular destinations that once was considered more seasonal.
Aircraft Fleet has expanded with what should be 12 Boeing 737-800s and 6 Boeing 737-700s with a article I was reading on Sunday with the Star Tribune.
Some new places they added for this year in which hopefully everything goes well that they keep them around.
As said above they do fly to Dallas in which someone posted their flights to places like Mexcio.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: OB1504
Posted 2012-11-13 21:41:06 and read 2221 times.

Quoting MountainFlyer (Thread starter):
Several months ago when NK moved into MSP at Terminal 2, many (including myself) were skeptical about SY's ability to compete long term against the larger ULCC.

It's my impression that Sun Country is on the higher end as far as low-cost carriers go, while Spirit is on the opposite end of the spectrum. As in many of Spirit's other markets (with the notable exception of those where they compete with Allegiant), I think there's room for the two carriers to coexist, as they are targeting two different segments of the market.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: B727FA
Posted 2012-11-13 21:51:52 and read 2219 times.

I'm not sure where anyone is seeing "plenty of unused gates in MSP." Perhaps at T2, but T1 is pretty stacked overall.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: Acey559
Posted 2012-11-13 21:55:51 and read 2218 times.

Funny, I was just looking at the SY jobs page yesterday and they're hiring a DFW lead station agent. I've always been intrigued with SY though, good to hear they're doing well.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2012-11-13 22:28:25 and read 2233 times.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 28):
I wouldn't really call it crap.

Honestly, I wouldn't either but they currently fly MSP-MCO/RSW/MIA/TPA and I can't see how that's any better than LAN-TPA would be. I guess I was trying to make a point but didn't get it across very well.

Quoting b757capt (Reply 29):
Disagree
Quoting b757capt (Reply 29):
Agree. They fly very good vacation routes that seem to do well. Of course there are a few off routes like DCA that work for other reasons.

See above. Sun Country currently flies MSP-LAS/MCO/TPA/RSW/MIA, amongst other markets. I believe they do pretty well with all of that. I fail to see how LAN-TPA would be crap yields any more than any of those markets are. None of them are known for their excellent yields yet Sun Country makes them work. That leads me to believe that their low costs and the ability to tie these markets into their vacation product could also make a market like LAN-TPA (which has no direct competition) work as well.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: b757capt
Posted 2012-11-13 22:40:42 and read 2238 times.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 35):

Population base for one.

DTW and FNT being 1-2 hours away for second.

MSP can pull traffic to the destinations you mentioned just saying that the valuable traffic is not on LAN-TPA.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: sunking737
Posted 2012-11-14 01:27:23 and read 2221 times.

LAN is Apple Vacations except for MSP-LAN-DCA. SY also flies gambling flights to/from IFP, Has since 2002.
Mr Laughlin helped keep SY flying until MN Airlines Inc. LLC bought the company in April 2002. MN Airlines was/is the holding company, MN Air itself is own by MN based Cambria Corp. after they bought SY from the Petters Group.

As far as SY Fleet goes a/c 806SY is leaving after a 10 year lease. It is their oldest plane age wise. N818SY, is 9
years newer (will be the youngest in the fleet). It's coming from Ethiopia and is in return check right now. They should
have it flying in second week of January.

Two Transavia airplanes this year. One will be here next week I believe (or maybe at
the end of this one). Second in December.

Two -700's coming in the spring from Aeromexico which will be 714SY/715SY. So, as
of now, the fleet size next summer will be 17 airplanes.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: iowaman
Posted 2012-11-14 17:15:21 and read 2187 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 30):
SY carries alot of mail, ALOT. I think that can contribute to some of their success.

Interesting, especially considering their route network is relatively limited.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 33):
I'm not sure where anyone is seeing "plenty of unused gates in MSP." Perhaps at T2, but T1 is pretty stacked overall.


As small as terminal 2 is, there aren't any unused gates but certainly room for increased utilization from the respective carriers that use it.

H1 SY
H2 SY
H3 SY
H4 SY/ FI
H5 SY
H6 NK
H7 WN
H8 WN
H9 WN
H10 WN/FL

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 37):
As far as SY Fleet goes a/c 806SY is leaving after a 10 year lease. It is their oldest plane age wise. N818SY, is 9
years newer (will be the youngest in the fleet). It's coming from Ethiopia and is in return check right now. They should
have it flying in second week of January.

Two Transavia airplanes this year. One will be here next week I believe (or maybe at
the end of this one). Second in December.

Two -700's coming in the spring from Aeromexico which will be 714SY/715SY. So, as
of now, the fleet size next summer will be 17 airplanes.

Interesting insight, thanks for sharing.

[Edited 2012-11-14 17:18:00]

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-14 18:19:15 and read 2186 times.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):
Interesting, especially considering their route network is relatively limited.

Their PHX flight will always have mail, at least five to eight thousand pounds coming off and maybe 50 to 100 pounds going back on for the return flight.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2012-11-14 18:30:08 and read 2173 times.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 37):
Two Transavia airplanes this year. One will be here next week I believe (or maybe at
the end of this one). Second in December.

I saw one in SEA last week.

Topic: RE: Sun Country "On The Rise"
Username: JetBlueGuy2006
Posted 2012-11-16 14:51:54 and read 2138 times.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 37):
LAN is Apple Vacations except for MSP-LAN-DCA.

Orlando and LAS are not Apple Vacations if I remember correctly, but feel free to correct.

What I meant by the TPA route comment was that last year, SY had the LAN-MCO route all to themselves. Now, Allegiant is back in the picture with LAN-SFB. If SY did not want to go head to head, it wouldn't be out of the question for them to switch to TPA now that they have opened it or even down to RSW (which they have done seasonally in the past, I believe). What I am saying is, it would be good for LAN to have a West Florida connection, and of the available carriers, SY would seem to be the most obvious choice. G4 just returned, and I don't see them opening up PIE this year.

Now that the winter season is here, nothing will really change, but it would be nice to have a West Florida connection at LAN.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/