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Topic: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-18 23:02:02 and read 2362 times.

Excuse me if this was posted previously, but I just found this on AVHerald:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4591101a&opt=0

Quoting Aviation Herald:
A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-300, registration N625SW performing flight WN-2605 from Oklahoma City,OK to Las Vegas,NV (USA) with 86 people on board, was enroute when cabin crew conducted beverage service. A flight attendant tripped over a passenger's leg extended into the aisle and fell. The flight attendant was not able to continue duties due to pain in knee and foot.

Apparently had a foot fracture.

Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

A very strange and unusual situation. Glad that it was just the foot of the f/a and nothing more serious than that, albeit a foot fracture is really debilitating.

-PHX787

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-11-18 23:10:56 and read 2368 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):

That is very unfortunate, I wish them a speedy recovery

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Well as it was an injury at work I imagine that WN (or their insurer) would cover the medical expenses, although I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to recover the costs from the passenger.

The FA could also seek punitive damages from the customer, and maybe also loss of income depending on the impact of the fracture and how much sick entitlement they have.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-18 23:10:54 and read 2363 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Sounds like a simple case of an accident occurring in the workplace.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: silentbob
Posted 2012-11-18 23:32:03 and read 2365 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 2):
Sounds like a simple case of an accident occurring in the workplace.

Exactly, it will be a workers comp case. However it does show how dangerous it can be when people do thoughtless things like that.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: columbia107
Posted 2012-11-19 05:44:09 and read 2361 times.

The irony is that there was no intent to cause injury by the passenger,
Humans are not perfect and sometimes, inadvertently, we do stupid things which causes harm to others.
Frankly, in a case like this one, I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.
Just my 2 cents.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: s5daw
Posted 2012-11-19 05:47:55 and read 2364 times.

Quoting columbia107 (Reply 4):

The irony is that there was no intent to cause injury by the passenger,
Humans are not perfect and sometimes, inadvertently, we do stupid things which causes harm to others.
Frankly, in a case like this one, I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.

Probably the best defence from the passenger would be suing the airline for damages (and fake leg pain, maybe add "fear of flying" as a consequence). Just to level the field.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: ozark1
Posted 2012-11-19 05:48:20 and read 2363 times.

It's funny how some people automatically go to "Who sues who?". This was a simple accident, it was an IOD--injury on duty--and WN will pay her while she is out.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: YYCspotter
Posted 2012-11-19 06:47:12 and read 2362 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill?
Pun intended?

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: Northstar80
Posted 2012-11-19 06:50:50 and read 2361 times.

Well, it may be the case that the passenger is very tall and his legs dont fit in the space between the seats. Happens to me all the time, I sit diagonal and stretch my aisle side leg to the aisle.

But usually what happens to me is that the FAs bump the carts into my feet or legs.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: upsmd11
Posted 2012-11-19 07:00:32 and read 2361 times.

Human error on both parts. The FA has seen, no doubt, other passengers putting their legs in the aisle and should be on the lookout for such things. The passenger, also, knows that the trolley will be coming down the aisle and may want to pull his feet in. I am sure the WN workers compensation will cover this whole thing though.

John

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: LoneStarMike
Posted 2012-11-19 07:35:59 and read 2366 times.

Quoting upsmd11 (Reply 9):
The passenger, also, knows that the trolley will be coming down the aisle and may want to pull his feet in.

WN doesn't use a trolly on the 737-300. They serve beverages from a tray.

LoneStarMike

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-11-19 07:40:51 and read 2365 times.

Quoting columbia107 (Reply 4):
I think a magistrate would find it hard to impose punitive damages on the passenger.

How? They were clearly negligent.

Quoting s5daw (Reply 5):
Probably the best defence from the passenger would be suing the airline for damages (and fake leg pain, maybe add "fear of flying" as a consequence)

This is true, if it were to end up in court there would almost definitely be a countercase.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: sw733
Posted 2012-11-19 07:46:26 and read 2369 times.

Out of curiosity - I've only seen WN use the minimum number of flight attendants, which is 3 on their 737s. If one of them becomes physically unable to perform during the flight, does that create any sort of problems legally with there now only being 2 flight attendants for 101+ seats?

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: moo
Posted 2012-11-19 07:50:42 and read 2364 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
How? They were clearly negligent.

The only thing certain here is that it's anything but clear.

Why wasn't the FA watching for obvious obstacles she might trip over? Was the passengers leg slightly out, halfway out, fully out or resting on the chair opposite? Was the passenger tall, and therefor unable to keep his leg in?

Claiming "clear negligence" for just having a leg in the aisle is basically what is wrong with the litigation system today.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: CairnterriAIR
Posted 2012-11-19 07:52:16 and read 2363 times.

Similar thing happened at my job. Employee tripped over a customer's foot and injured his knee. No mean intentions from the customer, it was an accident. Health insurance and company paid for the bill. The same will probably apply here. I'm sure such an accident takes place more often than not.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: longhauler
Posted 2012-11-19 07:52:44 and read 2365 times.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 12):
does that create any sort of problems legally with there now only being 2 flight attendants for 101+ seats?

Not in flight, but it will at the next stop.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: AA767400
Posted 2012-11-19 08:20:51 and read 2362 times.

I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. Unfortunately - most airline companies aren't very good with IODs. Sometimes getting compensated for an IOD is like pulling teeth.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
Well, it may be the case that the passenger is very tall and his legs dont fit in the space between the seats. Happens to me all the time, I sit diagonal and stretch my aisle side leg to the aisle.

I'm 6'2 and I always keep my legs out of the aisle. I don't want to be injured, nor do I want someone to trip. I've seen people who are way shorter than I am with their legs in the aisle, and just don't get it. Some people just like to spread themselves all over. And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
But usually what happens to me is that the FAs bump the carts into my feet or legs.

Exactly, which is why I don't place my legs in the aisle.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2012-11-19 08:33:52 and read 2360 times.

People are larger than they were a generation ago and seating configs are denser than just ten years ago.

Thus cabin crew tripping injuries will be more common and passenger foot/shoulder vs. cart are becoming routine (despite pre-service PA's in 5 languages imploring people to huddle into their seats before the carts come out :/ ). Kudos to WN crews who have been hand running for years with relatively few incidents. When my airline flew a subtype that required han running, it was a very challenging adjustment.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-19 08:59:54 and read 2362 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 1):
The FA could also seek punitive damages from the customer, and maybe also loss of income depending on the impact of the fracture and how much sick entitlement they have.

Has this ever happened before? I mean there was an incident a few years back in Cincinnati where a Megabus luggage handler got injured when someone's overweight bag fell on them and caused an injury. The case was settled out of court but apparently the pax failed to declare that it was overweight and the handler had no idea it was either. I don't know the details, but I mean, I've seen pax-caused injuries to crew/staff being paid for in some way by the passenger.

Quoting YYCspotter (Reply 7):
Pun intended?

  

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. Unfortunately - most airline companies aren't very good with IODs. Sometimes getting compensated for an IOD is like pulling teeth.

Yeah from what I see it's usually a passenger getting his foot crushed by the cart, or stepped on by another passenger. Never have I seen a tripping case.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-11-19 09:05:52 and read 2359 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Does anyone have to pay? FA goes to Hospital and insurance pays no?

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: akelley728
Posted 2012-11-19 09:12:12 and read 2359 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
How? They were clearly negligent.

You have got to be kidding me. Were you there and 'clearly' saw what happened?

This was an accident, pure an simple. Worker's Compensation insurance will pay for the medical bill as well as pay the FA's salary while they are recovering.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-11-19 09:22:30 and read 2360 times.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2012-11-19 09:28:25 and read 2359 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):
That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

do you Recline your seat?, what would the problem be of you also reclined your seat?

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: 737tanker
Posted 2012-11-19 09:31:07 and read 2359 times.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 10):
WN doesn't use a trolly on the 737-300. They serve beverages from a tray

WN don't use a cart on any of their aircraft. Even the 737-800 is now all tray service, no carts.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: B727FA
Posted 2012-11-19 10:55:35 and read 2360 times.

Well, I'm a careful FA...have been for nearly 20 years. I've tripped and stumbled...on purses, feet, legs, coats, straps on back packs, you name it. But I don't go looking to sue the pax. I've also bumped people, arm rests, seat backs, etc. No law suit there. I've also been elbowed in the crotch, hit on the chin, etc etc etc.

It's a small area with a LOT of flinging body parts and "stuff" in the way. I think MOST people get that and realize that 1) it's not intentional, 2) it's not sexual 3) it's not all that fun for anyone.

Smile and nod and move on; in the event of an injury, deal with it and realize it's a "is what it is" situation and rarely is there a reason to seek a financial remedy.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: kanban
Posted 2012-11-19 11:06:53 and read 2634 times.

Flying with long legs and artificial knees brings on several problems.. I generally ask the person in front to be careful putting the seat back and allow me a moment to readjust where my knees are.. (the response usually is they don't recline their seats.) The other thing about stainless steel knees, slamming the seat back will hurt you more than me. The other is I mention to the FA's that I may need to stretch my leg in the aisle and will try to be aware when they're coming through.. again I usually get a don't worry about it response. Personally I think it is incumbent on the person needing the space to ensure they are not a safety hazard.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-11-19 11:07:31 and read 2626 times.

I agree with B727FA. For every passenger leg, purse, backpack, kid, etc. that I have tripped over I have run into someone's knees, legs and arms with a meal and/or beverage cart. Just apologize and move on. Every once in a while you get a drama queen (either pax or f/a) that wants to create a scene. Just listen patiently, apologize again, and move on. If anyone has ever tried to sue the airline over it I never heard about it.

Lately, it has been overpacked overhead bins that are causing the injuries. Someone opens the bin, a laptop falls out and konks someone on the head. Sometimes all it is a jacket or something and you would think someone had dropped a 737 on them for all the whining you hear.

I sincerely hope the f/a was not seriously injured. We're a pretty tough bunch.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: 737tdi
Posted 2012-11-19 11:18:07 and read 2686 times.

There are not going to be any lawsuits. Good grief, you guys make it look like Americans are sue happy. Out of millions of fliers, discern the percentage of lawsuits filed. I would bet it is less then .00001 percent. That is one out of every 10 million, and I would guess it is probably less then that. There is no reason to think about lawsuit. It was an accident. WN will pay the OJI and the passenger won't remember it tomorrow.

My response to this. Keep your legs in your space, especially while cabin service is being performed. JMO.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-19 11:27:27 and read 2658 times.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 27):
the passenger won't remember it tomorrow.

Somehow I think the passenger will remember what happened.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-11-19 11:48:11 and read 2675 times.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 27):
There are not going to be any lawsuits. Good grief, you guys make it look like Americans are sue happy. Out of millions of fliers, discern the percentage of lawsuits filed. I would bet it is less then .00001 percent. That is one out of every 10 million, and I would guess it is probably less then that. There is no reason to think about lawsuit. It was an accident. WN will pay the OJI and the passenger won't remember it tomorrow.

My response to this. Keep your legs in your space, especially while cabin service is being performed. JMO.

They are sue happy. The FA should sue the airline for the incident, they are the ones who have made the decision to not give us taller people any room to sit. The airlines really need to look at making more room for your legs in the aircraft for all passengers, not just for those who want to pay extra for much needed cm's. If the airline needs more money then they should just charge more for the flight and all those WN flyers who don't want to increase their costs reexamine their travels and budget. I remember when you could actually get out of your seat by the window without having to dry hump your seat mate.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-19 12:38:38 and read 2645 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 26):
Lately, it has been overpacked overhead bins that are causing the injuries. Someone opens the bin, a laptop falls out and konks someone on the head. Sometimes all it is a jacket or something and you would think someone had dropped a 737 on them for all the whining you hear.

But where is the responsibility here? IIRC Aren't FAs supposed to supervise the loading of the bins, or at least check of their security/safety before takeoff? I have always seen FAs around me check the bins or close the bins themselves when they're full, to make sure theyre not a safety issue.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-11-19 13:28:01 and read 2643 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 30):
But where is the responsibility here? IIRC Aren't FAs supposed to supervise the loading of the bins, or at least check of their security/safety before takeoff? I have always seen FAs around me check the bins or close the bins themselves when they're full, to make sure theyre not a safety issue

And I quote myself "Please use caution when opening the overhead bins as things do tend to move about during the flight."

It is usually at the END of the flight when the bins are opened and things fall out. Gotcha!

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-19 13:48:44 and read 2621 times.

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 20):
This was an accident, pure an simple.

Not when common sense is thrown out the window. Putting feet or your legs in an aisle in any moving vehicle is a safety risk be it a bus or a plane. Falls and trips can put one out of work for a long time. Whoever injured this FA has no regard for anyone's safety and should pay the price. Why would anyone put their leg or foot in the aisle during beverage service. I mean.....hello?! Duh. Some people don't know how to use their melons.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: Silver1SWA
Posted 2012-11-19 14:36:36 and read 2630 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.


Are you serious, or being facetious? Every passenger has a seat that reclines and should be able to use that feature if they like. If that offends you, take it up with the airline who opted to install that feature, not the person who chooses to use what's available to them.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: iowaman
Posted 2012-11-19 15:13:28 and read 2597 times.

Just a friendly reminder to all to please keep the discussion civil and avoid any personal attacks. Please stay on topic to avoid any more posts from being removed and/or the thread locked.

[Edited 2012-11-19 15:40:39]

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: PDX88
Posted 2012-11-19 16:20:05 and read 2563 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 32):
Not when common sense is thrown out the window. Putting feet or your legs in an aisle in any moving vehicle is a safety risk be it a bus or a plane. Falls and trips can put one out of work for a long time. Whoever injured this FA has no regard for anyone's safety and should pay the price. Why would anyone put their leg or foot in the aisle during beverage service.

I'm tall and a bit cramped in an average coach seat, and I travel with my laptop which is under the seat in front of me so no foot room there, so I occasionally stretch my leg briefly in the aisle when it gets sore. It's not a lack of common sense. I do check to make sure I'm not going to be tripping anybody first. Flight attendants bringing the beverage cart from the back to the front walk backwards with the cart and cannot see what is sticking out into the aisle, just as the passenger probably couldn't see the FA coming from behind them.

If they don't want you sticking appendages into the aisle, then maybe they should put in fences in each row that block passengers in during beverage service? (Sarcasm of course). There are no placards, warnings (audible or visual), barriers, or restrictions for the passenger to go by about sticking their leg in the aisle, so how can the airline sue?

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-19 16:29:03 and read 2557 times.

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 35):

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep your leg or foot in the aisle for an extended period of time. That was my ENTIRE point to my post. I get that you're tall. But if you need to stretch out on a flight, then get up and walk around. As for your laptop under the seat in front of you keeping you from having room for your feet under said seat, it was your choice to put it there.

It's lack of common sense to just leave your leg and foot out in the aisle during beverage service which creates a safety issue.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2012-11-19 17:07:24 and read 2539 times.

If you get up and walk around, you can end up as a CAT victim. If you leave your seat during beverage service, you can be in the way. If you leave your leg in place too long, it can cramp. It's pretty much a no win situation for the passenger.

The flight attendant would have been walking with a tray so might not have seen the leg. However, they are doing a job that would see this as something expected (a foot/leg/bag fouling the aisle) so are probably normally aware. This time the stars aligned (or misaligned) for them.

Regardless, it was an accident and nothing more. You can get angry and self-righteous about it or you can accept that crap happens and forgive.

- Dave

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: PDX88
Posted 2012-11-19 17:15:48 and read 2534 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
It's lack of common sense to just leave your leg and foot out in the aisle during beverage service which creates a safety issue.

The report never said this passenger just had his leg sticking out in the aisle the entire flight, it may have just been a brief second just as the FA was coming up behind him/her. Just an unfortunate accident is my guess.

[Edited 2012-11-20 05:58:19 by 777ER]

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-11-19 18:46:36 and read 2508 times.

Southwest takes care of their employees. Certainly this F/A wil be treated with respect, and well cared for.
Accidents happen. Thankfully Southwest cares.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-19 19:17:09 and read 2503 times.

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 38):
The report never said this passenger just had his leg sticking out in the aisle the entire flight, it may have just been a brief second just as the FA was coming up behind him/her. Just an unfortunate accident is my guess.

I never saw anything along the lines of anything involving the passenger getting hurt. I mean the whole thing could've been worse but it's a good thing that it wasn't worse than it was.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
It's lack of common sense to just leave your leg and foot out in the aisle during beverage service which creates a safety issue.

It's also rather rude, in my opinion. If you go to Japan, for example, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't ever see it.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 34):
Just a friendly reminder to all to please keep the discussion civil and avoid any personal attacks. Please stay on topic to avoid any more posts from being removed and/or the thread locked.

   Jumping right out of the gate eh?  
Don't worry, if anything goes awry, we got the SD button

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: Aeri28
Posted 2012-11-19 21:05:29 and read 2465 times.

interesting read. and I will admit, me being 6'3", I am not immune to sticking my big feet and long legs into the aisle to give them a little stretch in the cramped compartment. I do realize I am 'mindful' of someone coming down the aisle and hope the person also is aware of what may fall in his/her direction. The leg is not sticking straight out into the aisle as I would have to be quite the contortionist to manage that, but rather the foot and leg is 'flush' with the seat in front of me, no more than an errant bag, fallen pillow or blanket may be. Still both parties should b e a little vigilant and even the person walking up/down the asle. There may be a cup or glass or any other item that may have mistakenly appeared on the floor, so be aware of your surroundings.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: avroarrow
Posted 2012-11-19 21:39:19 and read 2461 times.

I agree that it sucks that anyone got hurt, however since the injury happened in the workplace, one would hope that the company and their private/government insurance would cover treatment and lost wages, since that is the purpose of insurance in the first place. I doubt it was the intention of the passenger to cause injury, so suing them would be a pointless waste of time, I'm sure that a portion of everybody's fare must go towards covering this sort of unexpected incident on some level or another?

[Edited 2012-11-20 06:05:42 by 777ER]

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: AA767400
Posted 2012-11-20 00:01:02 and read 2438 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):
That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

So you're exactly that person that get's offended? And kick someone's seat if they recline? Wow.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
Yeah from what I see it's usually a passenger getting his foot crushed by the cart, or stepped on by another passenger. Never have I seen a tripping case.

I've seen plenty of people trip, including FAs. Happens all the time, however rarely does it cause an injury and make a headline. And if a passenger get's stepped on, crushed, etc, it's pretty much their fault for sticking their legs out in the aisle as if they were on a beach with a margarita.

Common sense, and etiquette is lacking nowadays in public.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: Antoniemey
Posted 2012-11-20 00:04:47 and read 2439 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
But if you need to stretch out on a flight, then get up and walk around.

Granted, on WN's 737s it's not an issue, but for a lot of us, a lot of planes are not large enough for getting up and walking around to be in anyway "stretching out." And the other issues with that statement have already been pointed out.

[Edited 2012-11-20 06:04:17 by 777ER]

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: rcair1
Posted 2012-11-20 08:16:21 and read 2417 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Here's the question: who pays who here? Is the pax going to have to foot the f/a's medical bill? Is WN going to cover it?

Workman's compensation. WN is required by law to carry that on their employees.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 1):
Well as it was an injury at work I imagine that WN (or their insurer) would cover the medical expenses, although I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to recover the costs from the passenger.

Unlikely. Certainly it would not be WN, it may be their insurer. However, there is no clear evidence of any negligence that I have seen.

One definition of negligence (for legal purposes - dictionary.com).

the failure to exercise that degree of care that, in the circumstances, the law requires for the protection of other persons or those interests of other persons that may be injuriously affected by the want of such care.

Note the words "the law requires". There would need to be a law that the passenger violated. Such as purposely tripping the person - in which case it is assault.
There are probably mitigating circumstances to consider as well.
Was the area under the seat in front occupied by luggage. Remember, the airlines often say 'the area under the seat in front of you is your primary storage and should be used" or something like that.
The passenger may have had some medical condition that required him/her to stretch the leg from time to time.
The passenger may have been bent over reaching for something and not have seen the FA.

I don't know if any of these things are true - but before you can determine negligence, you first must have a legal standard your actions met.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
How? They were clearly negligent.

They would only be negligent if they saw the FA coming, waited to the last second and stuck their foot out to trip them.
See my previous paragraph - there has been no evidence here that the passenger was negligent - nor the airline.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
'm 6'2 and I always keep my legs out of the aisle.

I'm 6'0 and sometimes I have to stretch my knees out. I know people taller than me who have shorter thighs and a freind who is my same height who has longer ones - I've sat beside him on the plane and we've noticed how I have an inch to spare to my knees, and he does not.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):
That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

This is one of the biggest problems of society today - people are 'offended' by everything.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-20 10:22:25 and read 2411 times.

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 44):
for a lot of us, a lot of planes are not large enough for getting up and walking around to be in anyway "stretching out."

Well, then here is another option:

http://chirocentre.co.uk/how-to-stretch-exercise-on-airplane-flight/

The also helps with DVT.

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-11-20 14:07:02 and read 2399 times.

With the interior configurations as cramped as they are it is no surprise that people stick their feet in the aisle. I don't think it is intentional and most people move them when they see you coming with a cart.

My pet peeve safety wise is parents that let their children sleep on the floor. That is so patently and obviously dangerous. And when you politely ask them to pick the child up they get testy. The conversation usually goes something like this:

Me: "Excuse me sir/ma'am, but would you please pick the child up off the floor? It is not a safe place for them to be unrestrained in case of unexpected turbulence or they could be injured when we are moving equipment around the aircraft.

Pax: "Why should I? He/she is sleeping. I don't want to wake them up."

Me: "Well, I can certainly appreciate that. I have a question for you. Do you let your child sleep on the floor of your car?"

Pax: (indignantly) "Of course not! That wouldn' be safe."

Me: "I could not agree more. If you won't let your child sleep on the floor of a vehicle moving 65 miles per hour unrestrained why would you let them sleep on the floor of a vehicle moving at over 650 miles per hour?"

Pax: Silence. They pick the child up.

Me: "Thank you for your help. I would hate to see a child injured aboard a flight that I was working. How about if I get you a piece of fruit or some crackers that might help make them sleepy again and you can hold them or place them in their seat."

Topic: RE: Leg In Aisle Of WN Flight Breaks FA's Leg....
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-11-20 16:02:59 and read 2382 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 21):

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 16):
And don't get me started on those that get offended when you recline your seat back.

That would offend me big time. People have to stay out of my already tiny living space. I always kick the seat back pretty hard so they get the message.

I am sure the airline whose seat you are attempting to damage would love you to do this every time you have your space invaded...oh wait if his seat is in that space it is not your space, it is his.


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