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Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: eoinnz
Posted 2012-11-11 12:06:19 and read 4140 times.

Full story here

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/e...osion/story-e6frg6n6-1226514824688

DISTRESSED passengers told how they survived a mid-air emergency last night when an Emirates A380's engine exploded at 10,000 feet and forced it to turn back for an emergency landing.
About 20 minutes after leaving Sydney, Emirates flight EK413 experienced an "engine fault'' en route to Dubai.

"I saw a flash,'' John Fothergill, 49, from Auckland, said. "I thought it could have been lightening but then we saw flames come out of the engine. The whole interior of the A380 lit up.

[Edited 2012-11-11 12:07:07]

[Edited 2012-11-11 12:10:06]

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: airportugal310
Posted 2012-11-11 12:11:31 and read 4229 times.

Yes..this sounds like a "major" crisis...  http://avherald.com/h?article=458dbb78&opt=0

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-11-11 12:31:06 and read 4190 times.

Lol, 'mid air explosion' ?? You should work for one of the UK tabloids..

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-11-11 12:39:41 and read 4184 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 4):
Lol, 'mid air explosion' ?? You should work for one of the UK tabloids.

I suggest you direct your fury at Leigh van den Broeke and The Australian, since they are the ones responsible for the language.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EPA001
Posted 2012-11-11 12:48:40 and read 4179 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
I suggest you direct your fury at Leigh van den Broeke and The Australian, since they are the ones responsible for the language.

As always news media search for sensational stories, especially when incidents in aviation are the subject. It was just an engine shutdown. Not good, but it happens lots of times on all types of airliners.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-11-11 13:02:30 and read 4186 times.

o what really happened here? The engine exploded, or it did not. The engine was shut down (by the crew, not an explosion), or it was not. This incident is not the same as the QF A-380 engine incident of a few years ago. That engine was a RR Trent-900, not a GP-7270.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: francoflier
Posted 2012-11-11 13:06:33 and read 4179 times.

John Fothergill is:

a. a drama queen
b. planning a lawsuit
c. planning to sell an air disaster movie scenario
d. desperate for attention
e. all of the above

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-11 13:08:33 and read 4176 times.

The media always track down passengers which over react during these situations... Talk about being blown out of proportion!

I'll reserve my comments until further investigated...

BTW, I couldn't find the other post...

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-11 13:25:15]

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-11 13:10:17 and read 4185 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 6):
As always news media search for sensational stories, especially when incidents in aviation are the subject. It was just an engine shutdown. Not good, but it happens lots of times on all types of airliners.

When it's your airplane and fire is coming out of an engine, it's probably a bit frightening.

There is no published cause of the IFSD. For all we know, it could have been an uncontained failure or a catastrophic failure that was contained. From the description, the entire aircraft shook with the event and there were flames from the nacelle. That suggests that this wasn't a simple IFSD.

Being too quick to dismiss an incident as "sensationalism" is just as bad as that very same sensationalism.

I remember when the QF 744 had the cargo bay explosion that punched a hole in the side of the aircraft and people called it "sensationalism" and just a "simple pressure loss." Actually, it was a major incident and it was just luck that prevented any loss of life. Had some of the shrapnel from that explosion taken a path just a few inches different, it would have gone right through a few bodies before departing the aircraft.

Let's wait until we have some facts before dismissing this as so much sensationalism.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: B777LRF
Posted 2012-11-11 13:20:10 and read 4187 times.

What's really strange is that it's the 3rd IFSD EK has suffered in 4 days. One is rare, two an anomoly but three in 4 days? That's very, very strange indeed. Bet anyone who wants any reasonable amount those three incidents had nothing in common though.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EPA001
Posted 2012-11-11 13:22:15 and read 4178 times.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Let's wait until we have some facts before dismissing this as so much sensationalism.

You are correct. Maybe I was a bit too quick with my qualification of the incident, but most incidents get blown (way) out of proportion. So I assumed this was the same thing. In time we will know more.  

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: francoflier
Posted 2012-11-11 13:43:31 and read 4177 times.

Compressor stalls, if they happened, could have given the impression of engine detonations, along with flames shooting out the front and all...

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2012-11-11 13:47:47 and read 4173 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
o what really happened here? The engine exploded, or it did not.
Quoting EK413 (Reply 9):
The media always track down passengers which over react during these situations... Talk about being blown out of proportion!

From AVHerald report: "........climbing out of Sydney's runway 34L when upon contacting departure the crew declared PAN reporting they needed to shut the #3 engine (GP7270, inboard right hand) down and requested to stop climb at FL110 and continue on planned track until decision was made whether to return or continue, controller indicating the aircraft was needed higher to not leave controlled air space, the aircraft subsequently climbed to FL160 and FL190. The crew subsequently decided to return to Sydney, dumped fuel and landed safely on runway 34L about 90 minutes after departure......"

The fact that the flight crew considered continuing would lead me to guess that it was a relatively benign engine shutdown. (Emphasis on relatively, even routine aviation incidents can be frightening for pax) It could have been an engine flameout, hence the report from pax of 'flames'.


As for Mr.Fothergill....I wonder how many pax were interviewed until the reporter got the quote they were looking for?

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-11-11 14:07:55 and read 4161 times.

This quote is from the article in the original post - not the words of the person originating the thred.

Quoting eoinnz (Thread starter):
DISTRESSED passengers told how they survived a mid-air emergency last night when an Emirates A380's engine exploded at 10,000 feet and forced it to turn back for an emergency landing.

About 20 minutes after leaving Sydney, Emirates flight EK413 experienced an "engine fault'' en route to Dubai.

20 minutes after takeoff, 10,000 ft.

Geez. I knew it was a big plane, but I can climb better than than in a C-182.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-11 14:12:08 and read 4163 times.

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 14):

And in other words it's was simply an engine shut down... With the crew considering to continue it certainly wasn't as serious... As for the reporter guaranteed they located the passenger which seemed shaken not stirred...

I guess the aircraft will now ferry off to DXB with nil pax...?

EK413

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: zkokq
Posted 2012-11-11 14:21:58 and read 4170 times.

Seems Sydney air traffic control had a busy night with a virgin Australia flight also having an emergency on board.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EPA001
Posted 2012-11-11 14:37:14 and read 4172 times.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 15):
20 minutes after takeoff, 10,000 ft.

Geez. I knew it was a big plane, but I can climb better than than in a C-182.

Probably ATC did not let them climb out any higher then that altitude. The A380 is almost a skyrocket compared to the B747.  .

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: SimProgrammer
Posted 2012-11-11 14:42:52 and read 4156 times.

Anyone know the tail number?

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: BNEFlyer
Posted 2012-11-11 14:59:09 and read 4157 times.

Quoting SimProgrammer (Reply 17):
Anyone know the tail number?


It was A6-EDB/cn 013

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: Auchmithie
Posted 2012-11-11 15:44:04 and read 4158 times.

Quoting BNEFlyer (Reply 18):
Anyone know the tail number?


It was A6-EDB/cn 013

avherald.com and theeksource.com both say it was A6-EDA.

A6-EDB operated the previous day's EK413.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2012-11-11 15:48:25 and read 4165 times.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 13):
20 minutes after takeoff, 10,000 ft.
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 16):
Probably ATC did not let them climb out any higher then that altitude.

From the AVHerald piece:
"...crew declared PAN reporting they needed to shut the #3 engine (GP7270, inboard right hand) down and requested to stop climb at FL110 and continue on planned track until decision was made whether to return or continue,..."

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: aussie18
Posted 2012-11-11 16:11:45 and read 4161 times.

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 19):

It was definetely A6-EDA,Was listening to it on a the scanner and tracking it on flight radar,was rather interesting.
Probably a good thing it happened to land after the curfew as SYD gets quite busy just before the curfew comes into effect.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: rfields5421
Posted 2012-11-11 16:14:20 and read 4163 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 16):
Probably ATC did not let them climb out any higher then that altitude.

I was being sarcastic about the media report. The AVHerald article states the PAN was declared upon contacting departure controllers - which would have been well under 20 minutes after takeoff. Probably two or three at most.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: Spacepope
Posted 2012-11-11 16:22:57 and read 4165 times.

Bad luck, they had another IFSD on an A388 (A6-EDO) on Nov 7 too.

http://avherald.com/h?article=458d2f36&opt=0

Hopefully two unrelated issues.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: WSTAKL
Posted 2012-11-11 16:29:10 and read 4172 times.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 6):
John Fothergill is:

a. a drama queen
b. planning a lawsuit
c. planning to sell an air disaster movie scenario
d. desperate for attention
e. all of the above

I hope you understand that not everyone is an aviation geek!? For someone who has little to no knowledge of engine dynamics etc hearing load bangs, shuddering and flames would be very frightening.

[Edited 2012-11-11 16:31:27]

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: AirbusA6
Posted 2012-11-11 16:37:36 and read 5618 times.

Emirates announce a major tie up with Qantas. A few weeks later they suffer an engine 'blow up', the curse of Qantas strikes again Big grin

[Edited 2012-11-11 16:38:13]

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-11 17:21:50 and read 5744 times.

I don't think the aircraft is going anywhere soon... The aircraft is parked on the handstand next to The Grand Parade...

EK413 over and out...


EK413

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-11-11 17:44:36 and read 6589 times.

Do we have more information? I'm very curious.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
Compressor stalls, if they happened, could have given the impression of engine detonations, along with flames shooting out the front and all...

Could be, but a compressor stall at altitude is odd. Or do I not have the timeline correct?

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 12):
The fact that the flight crew considered continuing would lead me to guess that it was a relatively benign engine shutdown.

Agreed.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 23):
Bad luck, they had another IFSD on an A388 (A6-EDO) on Nov 7 too.

Hmmm... That could indicate a problem.

I'm very curious to find out more (e.g,. how old the engine is in terms of flight hours).

Lightsaber

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-11-11 17:45:04 and read 6501 times.

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 25):

Emirates announce a major tie up with Qantas.

It's just as well they're now cosy with QF -- they now have access to a big A380 maintenance base here, rather than facing a hostile enemy who wants to see their plane out of the air for as long as possible...

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2012-11-11 17:55:23 and read 6456 times.

Does QANTAS do any of that maintenance here any more? IIRC, as much as possible has been moved off overseas.

According to another story, it was more a big flash of light, that didn't last long, than an explosion.

[Edited 2012-11-11 17:57:45]

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-11-11 17:55:53 and read 6610 times.

Quote from John Fothergill in the linked article:

"I was in the same incident in 1988 when I was travelling on Alitalia, (so) it was (a) flash back to what happened (there). It was exactly the same"

Well, I'm glad he is such a genius  

As for the allegations that the crew "panicked", I'll wait until we hear from a more reputable source (or at least have his account corroborated) before questioning the professionalism of the cabin crew. Of course the media would rather run a good story about how the crew "panicked more than the passengers"

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: idlewildchild
Posted 2012-11-11 18:02:07 and read 6584 times.

Not for nothing, if I'm sitting on A-380 and there's fire coming from the engine and I know QF had the A380 incident that was almost catastrophic, I got through some praying and major anxiety until that aircraft is on the ground. I don't care who you are. When you're a passenger and something like this happens, it's only very natural to get anxious. Especially in light of the history of an A-380 having that serious problem. I don't know, at this point, which engines are on the bird and that they're different and that it's nothing. All I know is we're turning around, dumping fuel, going to make an emergency landing and we've lost an engine, after the aircraft shook and lit up the cabin.

It's very easy to be courageous and 'no big deal' from the ground.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-11-11 18:10:54 and read 6467 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 29):
Does QANTAS do any of that maintenance here any more? IIRC, as much as possible has been moved off overseas.

Yes. All line maintenance is done at SYD. It is only D (and maybe C) Checks that have been outsourced.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: sunrisevalley
Posted 2012-11-11 18:31:09 and read 6361 times.

An indirect question to all this. Is there a central registry that records inflight engine shutdowns and is it's database accessible to all?

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2012-11-11 18:32:08 and read 6379 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
And in other words it's was simply an engine shut down...

Well, no, not necessarily. Did you read the avherald report? (Which itself is certainly not complete.)

was climbing out of Sydney's runway 34L when upon contacting departure the crew declared PAN reporting they needed to shut the #3 engine

First, a "simple engine shutdown" is generally not a Pan-Pan level event. Second, they reported they "needed" to shut the engine down - presumably because it was misbehaving in some way. It wasn't just that it was giving them a low oil pressure indication or something and they decided to shut it down as a precaution. They needed to.

Quote:
With the crew considering to continue it certainly wasn't as serious...

The flipside of that is that after considering it, they ended up deciding that they needed to return to the airport. A "simple engine shutdown" may not have required them to return to the departure airport. Something happened that caused the flight crew to think about it and decide that they had to return.

I've lived through a situation that sounds similar to this, actually - I was on a DC-10 in 1980 that had an engine flame out shortly after takeoff. Given the time period, it was very scary - all I could think about as the engine was spewing flames on takeoff was AA 191. The FAA report later listed it as a simple compressor stall, however the plane was grounded for a week and the engine was changed, so clearly that engine was toast and the full story of what happened to it was never actually made public (this was pre-internet).

Someone else earlier in the thread suggested the flames could have been caused by a compressor stall, and I don't disagree, however compressor stalls don't just happen for no reason. Something happened to this engine, and we just don't know what yet.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-11-11 18:35:54 and read 6467 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 29):
Does QANTAS do any of that maintenance here any more? IIRC, as much as possible has been moved off overseas.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 32):
Yes. All line maintenance is done at SYD. It is only D (and maybe C) Checks that have been outsourced.

   They do everything except D checks, which are done at FRA by LH.

That said, the QF engineers probably aren't too familiar with the GP7200.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: BoeingVista
Posted 2012-11-11 18:40:51 and read 6553 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):

Hmmm... That could indicate a problem.

They also had a 777 engine IFSD near Mumbai this week and an A330 engine detonation in Zambia last week...

So thats 4 engine issues in 10 days on a nice mix of engines!

2x GP7200
1x GE90
1x T700

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: skygirl1990
Posted 2012-11-11 19:03:56 and read 6385 times.

I must say I rather enjoy Emirates summation of the incident - "an engine fault"

  

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-11 19:22:09 and read 6497 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 31):
Not for nothing, if I'm sitting on A-380 and there's fire coming from the engine and I know QF had the A380 incident that was almost catastrophic, I got through some praying and major anxiety until that aircraft is on the ground.

Engines are supposed to have a fire in them, that is how they "burn" fuel. Most people do not realize that fire extinguishes in aircraft engines do not go into the engines where the fire supposed to be, they go around the case where fire is not supposed to be. To put the internal fire out, the fuel flow is turned off, normally a number of ways to do this (HP and LP fuel shutoff valves).

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):

First, a "simple engine shutdown" is generally not a Pan-Pan level event.

Not in a quad, however a pan can also mean they are unable to comply with an ATC clearance for example the climb gradient requirements on the 34L SID, those gradients are in place to reduce noise over the residents below. In a twin, and engine shutdown is either a maday or pan due to the loss of systems.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):
It wasn't just that it was giving them a low oil pressure indication or something and they decided to shut it down as a precaution. They needed to.

Says who ?

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):

The flipside of that is that after considering it, they ended up deciding that they needed to return to the airport. A "simple engine shutdown" may not have required them to return to the departure airport. Something happened that caused the flight crew to think about it and decide that they had to return.

Yep like EK operate a 777 freighter to SYD and they can bring and engine and it was commercially the most viable solution. The crew probably phoned ops and asked them what they preferred, and their engineering staff probably were able to log onto the aircraft and have a look at the engines stats while in flight.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 34):
Something happened to this engine, and we just don't know what yet.

About the most accurate thing on this thread.

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 37):
I must say I rather enjoy Emirates summation of the incident - "an engine fault"

Which is exactly as it could have been, it could have been a simple FADEC fault asking the crew to shut the engine down, this takes the power off the FADEC and resets it.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: imiakhtar
Posted 2012-11-11 19:23:20 and read 6374 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 35):
They do everything except D checks, which are done at FRA by LH.


Since the new hangars opened earlier this year, I believe QF A380 C checks will take place at the LH Technik station in MNL. The A380s have been sent there recently for cabin reconfiguration and wing rib repairs. QF also uses it for A330 maintenance.

The RR engines are overhauled separately in SIN.

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-11-11 19:42:27 and read 6497 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 36):
So thats 4 engine issues in 10 days on a nice mix of engines!

2x GP7200
1x GE90
1x T700

Huh... That is far too many to be a coincidence. Is it maintenance, metal in DXB's jet fuel, or ???. It is time to throw together a tiger team and figure out what is going on.

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 37):
I must say I rather enjoy Emirates summation of the incident - "an engine fault"

Hey, we designed a fuel scheme on an engine that always threw a fireball out the front of the engine. We called it a 'feature' (proof of light, it only happened when the engine started). For some reason management made engineering remove that feature before service entry (it was a timing error in the fuel ramp matrix)...

I'm going to wait to see what the issue is. Every A380 issue is blown out of proportion. Like the plane.  

Lightsaber

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-11-11 19:48:59 and read 6319 times.

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 39):
Since the new hangars opened earlier this year, I believe QF A380 C checks will take place at the LH Technik station in MNL. The A380s have been sent there recently for cabin reconfiguration and wing rib repairs.

Sorry, my bad. I had it in my head that none of the aircraft have gone anywhere for maintenance except FRA, and it didn't occur to me that they'd be doing C checks in MNL at the same time as the reconfiguration work...

Topic: EK A380 Engine inflight shutdown Ex SYD
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-11-11 20:07:25 and read 6341 times.

I who know nothing would have assumed that one of 4 engines would have created too much drag for a whole flight to Dubai?

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-12 00:32:13 and read 5863 times.

There is a EK Skycargo freighter heading to Sydney tonight more than likely with a replacement power plant onboard...

EK413

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2012-11-12 00:39:44 and read 5742 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 43):

whats the flight number on the cargo flight?

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EPA001
Posted 2012-11-12 00:47:20 and read 5800 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 31):
Not for nothing, if I'm sitting on A-380 and there's fire coming from the engine and I know QF had the A380 incident that was almost catastrophic, I got through some praying and major anxiety until that aircraft is on the ground. I don't care who you are.

Praying wont help there. You have to rely on the crew and their skills and professionalism. But anyway, EK uses completely different engines on their A380's then QF does. So it is impossible these incidents are related. Or that they have anything to do with the A380 by itself. For all we know now it could be an engine malfunction which can happen on every airliner in the world. And which frequently happens all around the world.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2012-11-12 01:15:36 and read 5749 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 30):
As for the allegations that the crew "panicked", I'll wait until we hear from a more reputable source (or at least have his account corroborated) before questioning the professionalism of the cabin crew. Of course the media would rather run a good story about how the crew "panicked more than the passengers"

I always smile when I hear pax comments about cabin crew panicking. I have seen firsthand how pax thought that crew rapidly preparing a cabin for a precautionary landing scenario after an engine failure became "panic" in pax eyes.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: maxter
Posted 2012-11-12 01:15:45 and read 5687 times.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 36):
So thats 4 engine issues in 10 days on a nice mix of engines!

2x GP7200
1x GE90
1x T700

Any idea what a reasonable expectation would be for MTBF's for engines overall in a fleet their size?

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: idlewildchild
Posted 2012-11-12 01:43:11 and read 5754 times.

Seems folks are having a hard time understanding the simplicity of my position. When something goes wrong with an engine on an airplane, for the non-professional aviation person, or, for over 95% of those on board, it creates serious anxiety.

It's about being human. That human condition translates to a PR issue. That PR issue impacts one's brand. Brands are often impacted by human emotion more than facts. The point I am trying to make is that for the non-professional traveller to read the A-380 has had a series of issues, whatever the root or reality, is sowing a major branding problem for EK. it already hurt QFs brand.

Technical knowledge won't make folks any less anxious. What will work are engines that don't lead to PR challenges!

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-12 03:47:14 and read 5461 times.

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 44):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 43):

whats the flight number on the cargo flight?

The flight number was UAE9920 and arrived from SIN at 18:35...

EK413

[Edited 2012-11-12 03:48:25]

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: flykal
Posted 2012-11-12 06:51:27 and read 5135 times.

Well said idlewildchild...very easy to be an 'armchair' passenger and there's plenty of them around. Entirely different story if you are onboard - aviation geek or not!

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 31):

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: vio
Posted 2012-11-12 10:31:06 and read 4850 times.

Interesting...

In regards to some comments here, some of our A.net colleagues seem to be quite the armchair pilots, mechanics and passengers. I will tell you that not everyone is crazy about flying and most people I know would get very nervous should something "out of the ordinary" happen on an aircraft in flight.

I know we're all "too cool for school" here, but bashing people for "exaggerating" such experience is a little overboard. Don't forget that some air travelers are terrified of just the idea of being up in the air, never mind turbulence or other in flight emergency.

I know that news establishments want the rating and "THE SHOCKING" story, but I believe that some of these passengers are genuinely marked by these "routine events"...

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: bhill
Posted 2012-11-12 10:37:40 and read 4992 times.

Zeke, the key phrase is IN the engine....not coming out the front back OR sides.....

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: SInGAPORE_AIR
Posted 2012-11-12 13:11:14 and read 4921 times.

Dow Jones is reporting Tim Clark has three to four engines in its 27-strong A380 fleet were faulty and needed to be fixed or replaced. The faulty engines would be brought in over the next few days and replaced.

No free article link available yet.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: BA777ER236
Posted 2012-11-12 13:11:52 and read 4854 times.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 48):
Seems folks are having a hard time understanding the simplicity of my position. When something goes wrong with an engine on an airplane, for the non-professional aviation person, or, for over 95% of those on board, it creates serious anxiety.
Quoting flykal (Reply 50):
very easy to be an 'armchair' passenger and there's plenty of them around. Entirely different story if you are onboard - aviation geek or not!

I totally agree with the above sentiments.

It is very easy for professionals, let alone 'armchair' experts to be dismissive of the genuine anxieties of normal passengers.

The fact is that aviation professionals tend to forget that most passengers have no idea how an aircraft or it's engines work and when there is a technical problem they will almost always think the worst is about to happen.

It's also true, I think, that most members of the general public are highly sceptical of 'experts' when they see so much that discredits them in the general press!

Now... Engine 'failures' of any type whether contained or uncontained, simple or complex, are very rare. I have been flying professionally for 33 years, 8 of them military and the rest commercially. I have had a total of 6 engine 'failures' in that time, 2 of them in the RAF. Within 17,500 hours flying, I think that is remarkably low. Of the other 4 failures, one of them was on the ground, i.e. on takeoff which we aborted. Of the other 3, 2 were shutdowns without the passengers even noticing (as far as we could tell!). Only one was 'overt' and that was on an BAe ATP where the no.1 engine overtorqued and then auto-feathered on rotation... that one really got the passengers' attention (& mine!!)

All of the above events ended in safe outcomes. Because of the huge volume of flights around the world, an event such as an engine failure will happen somewhere every day and 99%+ will end without drama, the vast majority having been handled very professionally by the crew.

Every now and then we get an event like this (EK) and because the A380 is 'big' news in every sense it will get a lot of press attention. However, the event was handled by the flight crew and the aircraft landed safely. The Qantas engine failure was 'severe' and yet, due in no small part to the professional job by the crew (superb 'airmanship' from the flight crew and passenger care from the cabin crew) the outcome was successful.

There will be many more engine 'failures' on the A380 because that is the nature of things, you just can't build machines that operate as many hours in the air as airliners do without a small percentage of flights having problems.

When these 'events' happen, they will be frightening for the passengers and sometimes also the cabin crew and so much depends on the demeanour of the entire crew when 're-assuring' everyone on board.

idlewildchild... you have been involved in a very rare incident and I quite understand where you are coming from! However, don't forget that the flight crew are trained very frequently to deal with such things - as one of my cabin crew colleagues once remarked to me - ' you guys aren't paid for what you do, but what you can do!' I think that is very true!

This has been quite a long ramble, but the point is that different sections of our community perceive things in different ways. Personally, I don't think that the events that EK have had are connected or of concern, sometimes multiple undesirable events come along and then nothing happens for ages. I'm sure that EK will look into all and if there is a common cause it will almost certainly be discovered, but I think that is unlikely!

Cheers
 

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: rcair1
Posted 2012-11-12 16:06:40 and read 4791 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 45):
Praying wont help there

There is the old joke about praying to Buddha when your parachute fails to open....
Not to get religious, but people pray for many things/reasons. They may be praying for peace - to remain calm. They may be praying for the crew to utilize their skills wisely. They be praying for others who will be left alone if "the worst" happens. They may be praying for God to "get them out of this" - even that is valid - as God may choose to use the crew to do just that.
Frankly - I say a prayer every time I roll on an emergency call - for the guidance and skill to be effective and safe.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 48):
When something goes wrong with an engine on an airplane, for the non-professional aviation person, or, for over 95% of those on board, it creates serious anxiety.

Tell you what - I think losing an engine is a somewhat stressful event for everybody on the plane. No - it is not critical in many cases - particularly with a 4-holer.
I can tell you that every time I've lost an engine while in flight - it is WAY stressful. Course - I fly single engine... Thankfully - they have been few and far between and could be reconciled between where I was and the ground. (Had a mag go once, lost fuel feed from one tank once.)

For those here who dismiss loosing an engine as nothing - I'm thinking they are overcompensating for the sensationalists. It is a serious event, maybe not an emergency, when you loose an engine. The more so because they are so reliable - that makes it unusual.

I also know that familiarity can breed contempt. When I roll on an emergency call - I'm sure I respond in a much more "relaxed" manner than a 'civilian'. At the same time, the times I've seen FF/EMS treat a call as "routine" havetoo often turned out no so routine. Going from a report of a crashed truck with nobody inside - no blood - no sign of injury to find that person with slashed wrists 100yd away - full on emergency. How FAST can that helicopter be here.

Quoting flykal (Reply 50):
Well said idlewildchild...very easy to be an 'armchair' passenger and there's plenty of them around. Entirely different story if you are onboard - aviation geek or not!

Yep. I remember flying into Helsinki - from Frankfurt on LH. Long slow descent in snow - then nice gentle missed approach - again - then again. I was probably more nervous than the other passengers who were oblivious to 3 missed approaches (high minimum type - quite gentle).

Don't get me started about flying into Hong Kong (Kia Tek) on a 340 in a typhoon - and NOT knowing about that approach.

Often as not - the lack of information is the stress-or. The crew in the front knows what the shutdown was about. The passengers do not.

Quoting bhill (Reply 52):
Zeke, the key phrase is IN the engine

Thanks! I was trying to figure out how to point this out -   

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: idlewildchild
Posted 2012-11-12 19:05:27 and read 4714 times.

Quoting BA777ER236 (Reply 54):
idlewildchild... you have been involved in a very rare incident and I quite understand where you are coming from! However, don't forget that the flight crew are trained very frequently to deal with such things - as one of my cabin crew colleagues once remarked to me - ' you guys aren't paid for what you do, but what you can do!' I think that is very true!

Thanks. I appreciate the validation from a professional.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-12 20:27:47 and read 4777 times.

I've just come across a video of the incident...

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=5kU5GzAQEo0

EK413

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: spacecadet
Posted 2012-11-12 20:31:56 and read 4727 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 38):
Says who ?

Says AV Herald, which is the source everyone who is claiming this was a non-event is referring to. The point I was making is that even the source being used to claim this was nothing suggests that this was more than a simple engine shutdown. So if you are going to point to that source, you had better actually read what it says and not try to make the narrative it provides fit your preconceived notions about what did or didn't happen.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-12 23:55:50 and read 4673 times.

Now this would be a scary incident but again the crew are very professional assuring the passengers everything is well under control...

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=wI_5qDrMuK0

EK413

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: SYDSpotter
Posted 2012-11-13 02:26:01 and read 4620 times.

Quoting vio (Reply 51):
In regards to some comments here, some of our A.net colleagues seem to be quite the armchair pilots, mechanics and passengers. I will tell you that not everyone is crazy about flying and most people I know would get very nervous should something "out of the ordinary" happen on an aircraft in flight.

I know we're all "too cool for school" here, but bashing people for "exaggerating" such experience is a little overboard. Don't forget that some air travelers are terrified of just the idea of being up in the air, never mind turbulence or other in flight emergency.

I know that news establishments want the rating and "THE SHOCKING" story, but I believe that some of these passengers are genuinely marked by these "routine events"...

  

Yeah unfortunately there are some people who are terrified of flying and any incident can make an already stressful flight turning into something rather traumatic. However, the media (and this particularly evident in the last few years in Oz) have become increasingly sensationalist in their reporting, so any aircraft incident is jumped on immediately (anything related to QF is open season to the media in Oz). I remember a few years back when QF ran up a few incidents that even a QF aircraft that was delayed by 20 mins due to a air-con fault was deemed newsworthy   

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: flylonghaul
Posted 2012-11-13 03:35:09 and read 4595 times.

Anyone have any info on how long the repairs will take?
I flew in this evening on QF865 but of course was seated on the wrong side to catch anything more than a half glance.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-13 04:08:01 and read 4577 times.

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 61):

Not sure how long, more than likely the aircraft would be temporally repaired and ferried back home...

EK413

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: travelavnut
Posted 2012-11-13 05:47:04 and read 4606 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 59):

Now this would be a scary incident but again the crew are very professional assuring the passengers everything is well under control...

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=wI_5qDrMuK0

EK413

Here is a better link, couldn't open the link above on my desktop;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI_5qDrMuK0

That's a pretty big shower of sparks coming out, doesn't look like your normal compressor stall.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-11-13 09:34:30 and read 4534 times.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 63):
That's a pretty big shower of sparks coming out, doesn't look like your normal compressor stall.

Compressor stalls, by themselves, don't cause sparks for long duration (they do cause flames but only until the compressor recovers). To get sparks you need metal-on-metal contact...either something has failed inside the engine (blade, axial bearing, fuel nozzle) or it inhaled something (FOD) that's causing metal-on-metal contact. The burning metal bits are coming out the back as sparks.

Tom.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2012-11-13 10:19:44 and read 4547 times.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 63):
Here is a better link, couldn't open the link above on my desktop;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI_5qDrMuK0

That's a pretty big shower of sparks coming out, doesn't look like your normal compressor stall.

That is an amazing video. If this is happening five minutes after the problem started, what is going on? If the engine develops a problem, it gets shut down. Were there two problems on different engines, one shut down and one continuing to run and send sparks? Or was the engine that was shut down still running on its own? Or can a windmilling engine send sparks?

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-11-13 10:48:04 and read 4525 times.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 65):
If this is happening five minutes after the problem started, what is going on? If the engine develops a problem, it gets shut down. Were there two problems on different engines, one shut down and one continuing to run and send sparks? Or was the engine that was shut down still running on its own? Or can a windmilling engine send sparks?

That last one...a windmilling engine with a blade rub can throw plenty of sparks.

Tom.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-13 15:29:46 and read 4485 times.

Quoting bhill (Reply 52):
Zeke, the key phrase is IN the engine....not coming out the front back OR sides....

No big deal if flames come out the front or rear, it is just being vented to the atmosphere. Out the side is a different situation, that is where flames should not go, however that was not the case.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 58):
Says AV Herald, which is the source everyone who is claiming this was a non-event is referring to. The point I was making is that even the source being used to claim this was nothing suggests that this was more than a simple engine shutdown.

Avherald has changed their report on the incidents at least 5 times that I have noticed. The now are using the same words as EK are using, and engine fault. i.e. this was on the Reuters wires

"Emirates flight EK413 from Sydney to Dubai on 11 November turned back shortly after take-off due to an engine fault. Passengers are being re-booked on alternative flights," the airline said in a statement on Monday.

Quoting flylonghaul (Reply 61):
Anyone have any info on how long the repairs will take?

Swapping an engine can be done in a matter of hours, it normally takes longer to get a spare engine to the aircraft, and get to required tools in place. EK operate their own dedicate freighters to SYD, which is how I would expect the engine to arrive.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 63):
Here is a better link, couldn't open the link above on my desktop;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI_5q...rMuK0

That video is fro a different airline, and different engine type, and engine 4, not engine 3 as in this EK incident.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 63):
That's a pretty big shower of sparks coming out, doesn't look like your normal compressor stall.

Even though that video is of a different aircraft, while the aircraft is still flying it is still rotating, with no fuel being burnt, sparks can still be seen sometimes as this is the tips of the fan blade rubbing against the case,

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-14 01:08:29 and read 4410 times.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 63):
Here is a better link, couldn't open the link above on my desktop;

Cheers...

The link was an iPad version...

Any idea if the investigation into the incident has been completed?

EK413

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-14 11:21:02 and read 4400 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 68):

Just an update the aircraft is undergoing repairs in hangar 416...

Pretty cool site with an A380 butt sticking out of the hangar considering it's an EK tail...

EK413

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-22 20:09:54 and read 4323 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 69):

Another update fro.m the Australian ATSB, #3 engine GP7270 (15,146 hours since new, 1,857 cycles since new) suffered a second stage high pressure turbine nozzle failure resulting in small holes and tears to the high pressure turbine case, however, no debris penetrated the nacelle.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: 2175301
Posted 2012-11-22 20:16:19 and read 4262 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 70):

Contained Engine Failure.... As it should be.

Thanks for the update.

Have a great day,

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EPA001
Posted 2012-11-22 20:20:20 and read 4248 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 70):
Another update fro.m the Australian ATSB

Thanks for posting this Zeke. I guess the aircraft has returned to service quite soon after the engine malfunction happened?

And does anyone know if other EA-engines or other GE engines on other airplanes suffered the same kind of malfunction before?

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-22 21:07:48 and read 4180 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 70):

Cheers...

Thanks for the update on EK413 in flight engine shutdown... Great to see the aircraft has returned to revenue service...
I take it this incident was far more serious than originally suspected, very similar to the QF32 incident...

EK413

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2012-11-22 21:27:15 and read 4150 times.

Not quite. The RR engine went overspeed, so that the large sections of it went flying off in random directions. This one only saw small fragments hitting the casing. A significant failure, but a contained one.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-22 21:51:04 and read 4070 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 74):
Not quite. The RR engine went overspeed, so that the large sections of it went flying off in random directions. This one only saw small fragments hitting the casing. A significant failure, but a contained one.

In saying that can we agree the design of the power plant met its expectations and prevented the aircraft sustaining any damage?

EK413

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2012-11-22 22:35:57 and read 3991 times.

The RR would have probably comfortably contained a similar failure to this one as well. Neither one could have coped with the massive chunks that went flying off the RR engine when it went overspeed.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-11-22 22:58:31 and read 3950 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 75):
In saying that can we agree the design of the power plant met its expectations and prevented the aircraft sustaining any damage?

Seems like it to me.

It still is a significant event in such a new engine. Not ominous or world-shattering, but significant.

Topic: RE: EK A380 Engine Inflight Shutdown Ex SYD
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-23 00:34:47 and read 3781 times.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 72):
I guess the aircraft has returned to service quite soon after the engine malfunction happened?

Yes back in service, engine change.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):
It still is a significant event in such a new engine

It has been suggested to me that they have heard internally that the initial cause of the failure was a bird.


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