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Topic: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: tayser
Posted 2012-11-20 04:52:58 and read 4513 times.

straight from the horse's mouth:

http://melbourneairport.com.au/News-...unces-third-runway-preference.html

Quote:
Melbourne Airport has announced the preferred orientation for its third runway which will be included in the airport’s draft Master Plan to be published for public comment in early 2013.

Melbourne Airport CEO, Chris Woodruff, said the airport proposed the construction of a new east-west runway to provide additional capacity for the forecast growth in aircraft movements at Melbourne Airport by the end of this decade.

“The Melbourne Airport draft Master Plan envisages that a new runway will be needed around 2018-2022 to meet the demand from domestic and international airlines as the number of passengers travelling through Melbourne continues to grow.

“Passenger numbers are forecast to reach 40 million by the end of the decade, and more than 60 million by 2033.”
The proposed third runway will operate in parallel to the existing east-west runway (RWY 09/27) as well as the existing north-south runway (RWY 16/34). The new runway will be approximately 3000 metres in length and 60 metres wide. It will be capable of handling aircraft up to the size of an A380.

see link for the rest of the article, summary:

The preference will be delineated in the upcoming submission of the new masterplan (scheduled for 2013).

From the current 2008 Master Plan:

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/6638/melcurrentplanned.jpg

If the Vic.Gov's purpose of spruiking of AVV was to make MEL pull its finger out, recent releases from APAM seem to hint at just that - previously had the "preference" for a rail link outlined (along with a massive roadway expansion!), plans for the new T3 & T4 are slowly making their way out... it's interesting when competition is thrown into the mix.

The 2008 masterplan (remembering this is going to be replaced next year - what this announcement is a precursor to) had both the 09/27 runways in their ultimate vision (a couple of decades in the future) only having one of the runways used for take off and landing and the other just one mode at any one time - from the existing 2008 plan:

arrivals:

http://imageshack.us/a/img441/9836/melflightpathsarrivals.jpg


departures:

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/3489/melflightpathsdeparture.jpg

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-20 05:01:21 and read 4514 times.

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):

Was just reading up on the announcement looks as though you beat me to it! Lol

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=548727&page=262

EK413

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: tayser
Posted 2012-11-20 19:43:49 and read 4478 times.

The Herald Sun looks to be stiring up some opposition already, interviewing people who live in an area that for years on the Melway street directories has even had a warning that specific alignments will be subject to greater aviation noise....

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-11-20 21:49:37 and read 4346 times.

This alignment is sure to cause a stir anyway. The HS just got in early.

I can see this runway having a curfew imposed, especially for arrivals. It sure has the potential to become a hotly contested issue, which will put Labor in an interesting position, given the amount of their seats around there. They are safe seats yes, but the pressure is still there.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-20 21:57:54 and read 4335 times.

Good to see they are making the existing 07/27 longer, I hope the new 9R/27L is made flat, the downhill nature of the existing east/west runway is not all that nice when it is wet.

CAPA had the following to say,

"Australia's Melbourne Tullamarine Airport plans to commence construction of an AUD500 million (USD519.2 million) third runway to be complete by 2018-2022. The 3000m, east-west oriented runway is expected to be complete in two to four years after construction commences and is designed to provide capacity to meet predicted passenger traffic of 40 million p/a by 2020 and 60 million p/a by 2033. Melbourne Airport CEO Chris Woodruff said, "A new east-west runway will enable Melbourne Airport to handle more aircraft movements, more efficiently. Passengers will spend less time on the ground taxiing to and from terminals, and aircraft will burn less fuel on more direct flight paths and shorter trips from the gate to the runway." Australian Airports Association (AAA) welcomed the third runway plan. Melbourne Airport plans to submit a draft Master Plan, including the third runway project, for public comment in early 2013. "

It would be good if they had an additional taxilane over and to the east of the freeway so aircraft can be towed around the terminal even during busy periods.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: strangr
Posted 2012-11-20 23:15:49 and read 4261 times.

I can already see 'The Castle 2' in the producers hands, they are about to employ script writers. 

However this has been planned since 1963, do people think that an airport will never expand.? Do they buy a house without investigating the area or future potential.

I know not to buy a house anywhere near Clayton, Hallam, Dingley, or deer park because of Melbourne landfills, but people do and then they complain. You should almost have to sign a council waiver to exclude you from complaints.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-21 00:04:43 and read 4188 times.

I'm somewhat confused... The estimated cost to build the 3rd runway in BNE is $1 billion & MEL is $500 million...?

EK413

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: strangr
Posted 2012-11-21 00:08:10 and read 4183 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
The estimated cost to build the 3rd runway in BNE is $1 billion & MEL is $500 million...?

Labor costs, Brisbane is much higher due to Miners.

Melbourne Airport will hopefully not use union labor.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-11-21 01:02:10 and read 4126 times.

The increased costs at BNE are due to the ground conditions, due to the mangroves. That land will need to be filled with sand and then built on once its solid enough to construct the runway.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-21 01:23:02 and read 4088 times.

Quoting strangr (Reply 7):
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 8):

Cheers... Thanks for the explanation...

EK413

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2012-11-21 02:45:59 and read 4005 times.

How are people supposed to get to this airport. In the mornings it is absolute chaos. You have to leave well before the plane is scheduled, just in case some section of road on the way turns into a car park.

A rail line has been rumoured for years, but you get the feeling those who run the airport would rather make easy money with rip-off parking fees.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: TN486
Posted 2012-11-21 03:03:02 and read 3976 times.

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
The 2008 masterplan (remembering this is going to be replaced next year - what this announcement is a precursor to) had both the 09/27 runways in their ultimate vision (a couple of decades in the future) only having one of the runways used for take off and landing and the other just one mode at any one time - from the existing 2008 plan:

Another nail in the spotters coffin!!!

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: ABpositive
Posted 2012-11-21 16:14:47 and read 3693 times.

Quoting strangr (Reply 5):
I know not to buy a house anywhere near Clayton, Hallam, Dingley, or deer park because of Melbourne landfills, but people do and then they complain. You should almost have to sign a council waiver to exclude you from complaints.

Perhaps councils and developers should be mandated to mention these issues to prospective buyers. After all it is they who approve and develop these zones.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2012-11-21 17:07:27 and read 3644 times.

Quoting strangr (Reply 7):
Labor costs, Brisbane is much higher due to Miners.

Melbourne Airport will hopefully not use union labor.

The Labor costs are not due to unions but shortages of skilled labor. Workers will go where the pay is, and the mines are making a lot of money these days.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: tayser
Posted 2012-11-21 18:03:10 and read 3577 times.

The construction labour costs in Melbourne & Brisbane are under the same pressure (FIFO people), I dare say it's mainly the issue that BNE is on Moreton Bay & the mangroves as stated earlier. Likewise unions (CFMEU) are likely to have similar demands in both states.

Tullamarine sits on an ancient granite plateau [when you fly in / fly out - you can see the ravine system to the west and north quite clearly] about 100m above sea level (I've said this for many-a-year on here and elsewhere, despite the fact Tulla is in the north west when the centre of Melbourne's population is pretty much bang on Chadstone - 10-15km east of the CBD - building Tullamarine where it is was a very rare example of good long-term vision and planning, very rare given the project was borne out of two decades (60s/70s) that were known for making horrible mistakes!).

Melb geological map: http://er-info.dpi.vic.gov.au/public.../29374_melbourne_250_geol_1997.jpg

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: tayser
Posted 2012-11-21 18:23:49 and read 3541 times.

now here's a question for anyone who knows the answer / able to calculate it:

VA23 and QF93 (MEL - LAX), EK407 (MEL - DXB), QR31 (MEL - DOH), EY461 (MEL - AUH) are ULH routes that - I assume - need the most runway to get airborne for a non-stop trip up to the US and Middle east respectively.

Given the 380 only uses 16/34 now (which is 3.6km long) - will 3km be enough, especially on a hot (35+ degree) Melbourne summer day? Likewise for a 77W/77L/345/346? Or is it likely LAX/DXB/AUH/DOH departures will continue to use 16/34 at least some of the time when the new parallel runways are in active operation (and 16/34 is not active) come 2020 (assuming its built by then)?

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: tayser
Posted 2012-11-21 18:26:27 and read 3535 times.

^ mainly asking cos I'm wondering if the same kind of operation will be used even after a long parallel runway is built (at present 9/27 can be handling most departure/arrival, but the odd flight will land/take off on 16/34 as it's much longer)

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-21 18:35:51 and read 3521 times.

Quoting tayser (Reply 15):

I've noticed runway 09/27R is being extended so is it safe to say the long term plan would be for International flights to utilize 09/27R while domestic traffic depart on 09/27L...? I understand the runway is only 40m which is 20m short of the 60m width for the A380...

EK413

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-21 19:30:18 and read 3469 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 8):

I noticed in BNE that they transported a lot of the soil from the tunnel work along the creek via conveyor belt to the parallel runway area.

Quoting tayser (Reply 15):

Crews can always ask for whatever runway is operationally required. I often ask for 16 even if 09/27 is in use.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: tayser
Posted 2012-11-22 03:09:26 and read 3332 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 18):
Crews can always ask for whatever runway is operationally required. I often ask for 16 even if 09/27 is in use.

Cathay 330 pilot I assume?  

Anyhow - yes, this 2nd longer runway would enable pretty much all aircraft (perhaps with the exception of the aforementioned aircraft types to those ULH destos) in the pan-Asian region to use a 9/27. The current 9/27 might be a bit too short for say HKG, PEK or BKK on a hot day, no?

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-11-22 03:29:23 and read 3305 times.

Quoting strangr (Reply 7):
Melbourne Airport will hopefully not use union labor.

Dont bet on it, Victoria is the most unionized State in Australia

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-11-22 03:33:58 and read 3296 times.

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 10):
A rail line has been rumoured for years, but you get the feeling those who run the airport would rather make easy money with rip-off parking fees.

While I tend to agree with you on that, on the radio yesterday the Manager of Tallamarine Airport said that they are realy pushing the Victoria Government now to build a railway out to Melbourne Airport so the push is realy now on as the traffic is absolute bedlem around peekhour.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-22 04:14:30 and read 3264 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):
Quoting tayser (Reply 19):

There are plans to extend the existing runway 9/27...

EK413

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: r2rho
Posted 2012-11-23 01:45:42 and read 3051 times.

Good news for MEL, a necessary expansion, and the chosen runway configuration, coupled with 09/27 extension, makes good sense.

Now, about that rail link.....

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-23 05:43:54 and read 2947 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 22):

Look at the first diagram in the OP, the runway is being extended by a little over 700 m.

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-23 05:56:21 and read 2980 times.

Quoting zeke (Reply 24):
Look at the first diagram in the OP, the runway is being extended by a little over 700 m.

I did not mean to sound like a broken record I was wondering by how much was the runway being extended... So I take it the runway is presently 2300m considering the diagram states 3000m...???

EK413

Topic: RE: MEL's 3rd Runway Preference Announced: 9R/27L
Username: zeke
Posted 2012-11-23 06:49:04 and read 2953 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 25):
So I take it the runway is presently 2300m considering the diagram states 3000m...???

2286x45m, or 7500'.


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