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Topic: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2012-11-16 15:22:21 and read 5042 times.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblu...tomers-option-debut-143700212.html

Can't help but think that the title of the press release is a direct jab at Alaska Airlines.

Perhaps retaliation for SAN-BOS? Even if so, I'm pretty darn surprised to see this route out of B6.

JetBluefan1

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: jetMarc
Posted 2012-11-16 15:31:57 and read 5050 times.

This tag route has been rumoured for years and I feel its coincidental. One redeye is hardly reactionary when AS has depatures every 30 min. UA and CO have the same route too. A friend of mine commutes and says these flights are so full, she once spent 48 hours at the airport trying to nonrev. #72 on the standby list was her record. She would have just bought a ticket but walk up fare was almost $1400 one way. Im sure our flights will be priced well to be full and profitable.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-11-16 15:37:06 and read 5046 times.

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 1):
UA and CO have the same route too

CO is UA now. Just UA.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: jetMarc
Posted 2012-11-16 15:42:12 and read 5047 times.

I mentioned UA and CO separately with the intent of showing other airlines also flew the route (and a single flight each) despite Alaska's dominance.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: ANCsupercub
Posted 2012-11-16 16:04:47 and read 5046 times.

This is great news. I am sick of paying between 500-600. It is too bad it is only a redeye and seasonal. Hopefully the fares drop a bit this summer.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: woodsboy
Posted 2012-11-16 16:07:56 and read 5048 times.

ZZZZZZZZ, I almost fell asleep.......just another summer seasonal route. The real news would have been if they committed to year round service that we can actually use. And yes, the SEA-ANC corridor is busy and full which I know comes as a surprise to most who have no expeirence on that route. I speak for those of us who have had to nonrev ANC-SEA-ANC, good lord, its a nightmare and YES you can get stuck for days at one end or the other.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-11-16 16:25:49 and read 5046 times.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 6):
I speak for those of us who have had to nonrev ANC-SEA-ANC, good lord, its a nightmare and YES you can get stuck for days at one end or the other.

Which leads people to believe that there's plenty of traffic to go around on the SEA-ANC route. It probably will have minimal impact on Alaska's traffic, just like UA's flights. UA has two flights between SEA and ANC during the summer.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2012-11-16 17:52:40 and read 5048 times.

I heard this when I was picking up a pass at B6 today in SEA, along with a couple other new locations.

I wish there was another multi-flight player on the SEA-ANC route. But, unlike the others above, I have not had troubles non-revving between the two. Although, I go on dead days and 11 out of 13 times not in summer lol.

Good luck to them on this.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: rotating14
Posted 2012-11-16 18:53:00 and read 5047 times.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 5):

Spot on!! Go year round and then I'll jump up and click my heels but it's seasonal. Who doesn't fly into ANC from SEA? Almost everybody except WN and Allegiant. Im trying to figure why Jetblue can't offer year-round service. I'm sure the lift is there is enough lift. Ideas?

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: jetMarc
Posted 2012-11-16 18:57:56 and read 5047 times.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Thread starter):

Just reread it and think you may be right! Ambiguous language, ouch!

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: cotparampguy
Posted 2012-11-16 19:01:35 and read 5047 times.

I think this flight will do very well cargowise as well. I know ANC-LGB does. It broke our cargo record for one flight.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2012-11-16 21:08:34 and read 5043 times.

[quote=rotating14,reply=8]Who doesn't fly into ANC from SEA? Almost everybody except WN and Allegiant.

AA
DL
US
F9
NK

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: rotating14
Posted 2012-11-16 22:05:05 and read 5043 times.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 11):

Spoke too soon. I was thinking of traffic flying into ANC from elsewhere. What stumps me is why not make it year-round.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-11-16 22:32:17 and read 5042 times.

For info this was already posted in the JetBlue route thread

Likely New Jetblue Cities For 2013. (by doulasc Nov 12 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: PassedV1
Posted 2012-11-17 02:24:28 and read 5042 times.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 12):
What stumps me is why not make it year-round.

Because it is doubtful they would have the traffic. Something ridicules like 80% (I don't know what the actual number is but it is insanely high) of Anchorage residents are Alaska frequent fliers. UA has year round flights and they are often my ticket out of ANC. In the wintertime when nearly 100% of the traffic are Alaska residents, Alaskas' flights can all be oversold and I can get out with my own row on United. Additionally, Alaska has "Club 49" which gives Alaska residents two free bags and 30% off airfares when traveling to/from Alaska which is what the other airlines are competing against when they are not flying in the summer.

As an Alaska employee I welcome the competition, I think often, increased competition makes you better and often has the effect of making the"pie" bigger which is a good thing for everyone.

Jetblue chose a 1am departure from ANC, which is interesting because Alaska has a 0030, 0100, 0130, and a 0230 flight around that time period. Not that there are really any holes worth filling in the schedule, but I guess it makes the flight pretty low risk since they are probably just filling dead time anyway.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2012-11-17 02:42:39 and read 5042 times.

The late night/early morning flight pattern is very common on SEA-ANC-SEA. Even as a kid in the 70's we would always fly SEA-ANC leaving around 9pm, and then ANC-SEA leaving around 1am. It's a great use for an aircraft - ideal, really. I just hated getting to the airport up there at that hour.

-Dave

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2012-11-17 02:53:21 and read 5042 times.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 8):
Im trying to figure why Jetblue can't offer year-round service.

They "can" ; it will just be a horrific money-loser for them, that's all.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: nwaesc
Posted 2012-11-17 04:46:51 and read 5042 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 15):
It's a great use for an aircraft - ideal, really.

Exactly. Seems like as good of route as any to keep an A/C moving that may have otherwise just sat.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-17 07:13:54 and read 5042 times.

Quoting ANCsupercub (Reply 4):
Hopefully the fares drop a bit this summer.

For one additional flight? I seriously doubt that.

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 1):
A friend of mine commutes and says these flights are so full, she once spent 48 hours at the airport trying to nonrev. #72 on the standby list was her record.

Getting to ANC as a non-rev is not really a problem, but getting out of ANC is a whole 'nuther ball game, a royal pain in the butt!!!! Having said that, B6 did not add that flight for non-rev's. That would be obviously silly to do.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 7):
I have not had troubles non-revving between the two.

Oh, I have....getting out of ANC is the hardest every time. This is why I stopped non-revving up there.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-11-17 09:57:32 and read 5043 times.

B6 jumped into SEA-SAN back in May of 2008 and the route was gone by Sept of the following year. A single daily r/t. I don't remember any kind of retaliatory move by AS -- the "owner" of the market -- as they just waited for the itch to go away. This was part of a bit of experimentation by Blue back then with some intra-west coast growth, little or none of which stuck.

Even though this SEA-ANC move seems to have at least been triggered by AS's entry into the BOS-SAN market, I think Blue's new route will be gone soon. It just has the same feel as the above-mentioned scenario and doesn't seem very "serious" to me.

The one thing I am noticing however, is that along with their newly-announced ABQ-JFK service, Blue does seem to again be stirring just a little out west; like someone in Blue's Route Planning department just realized there is some of the U.S. west of the the Ol' Mississippi!   Interesting to see where this goes...

bb

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: as739x
Posted 2012-11-17 10:03:38 and read 5043 times.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 7):
I have not had troubles non-revving between the two.

Your one of few. When I worked for AS, I had to jumpseat everytime I left ANC. I agree with AirframeAS about it being a pain in the arse!!

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-11-17 10:15:56 and read 5043 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
B6 jumped into SEA-SAN back in May of 2008 and the route was gone by Sept of the following year.

That was another B6 flight that was intended on being seasonal. They just never brought it back. I guess that's B6's way of trying a market out here. If it works out well and the bookings are solid, the flight may go year-round.

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 8):
Who doesn't fly into ANC from SEA? Almost everybody except WN and Allegiant.

Only AS and UA and next summer B6, are the only airlines that serve SEA-ANC. No...WN and B6 do not serve ANC...yet.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 7):
I wish there was another multi-flight player on the SEA-ANC route.

UA flies 2X daily between SEA-ANC.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-11-17 10:49:46 and read 5043 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 21):
That was another B6 flight that was intended on being seasonal. They just never brought it back. I guess that's B6's way of trying a market out here. If it works out well and the bookings are solid, the flight may go year-round

Not quite D. Although the flight was announced as seasonal, it operated year-round (including thru the winter of 2008/9) for the year plus. (And given the year-round market that SAN-SEA is, it seemed very odd to me for Blue to think about flying it seasonally.) There was some question when the route was suspended in Sept of 2009 whether it would come back or not but of course it never did.

While I'm at it, I will revise a statement I made:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
This was part of a bit of experimentation by Blue back then with some intra-west coast growth, little or none of which stuck.

Some of the experimentation DID stick, such as some new LGB routes that were added at that same time. What I meant was that none of the added SAN stuff lasted -- SEA nor SLC. (That was also the time when B6 opened LAX.)

bb

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2012-11-17 11:58:12 and read 5042 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
Getting to ANC as a non-rev is not really a problem, but getting out of ANC is a whole 'nuther ball game, a royal pain in the butt!!!!

Why only one-way? It would seem logical that for every person going one direction that there would be a person going the other direction - in an overall way? Maybe it was the times you flew one way versus the other? I'm just trying to figure out this statement.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 19):
B6 jumped into SEA-SAN back in May of 2008 and the route was gone by Sept of the following year. A single daily r/t. I don't remember any kind of retaliatory move by AS -- the "owner" of the market -- as they just waited for the itch to go away. This was part of a bit of experimentation by Blue back then with some intra-west coast growth, little or none of which stuck.

One thing to add to that is that this period had to have been the toughest period to try out new routes since 9/11. The economy hit the skids in Sept 08 and certainly through 2009 was struggling quite a bit. I'm not saying the route would work now, but I'm saying that it would be a better time to try than when they did before.

-Dave

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-11-17 15:49:02 and read 5046 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
One thing to add to that is that this period had to have been the toughest period to try out new routes since 9/11. The economy hit the skids in Sept 08 and certainly through 2009 was struggling quite a bit. I'm not saying the route would work now, but I'm saying that it would be a better time to try than when they did before.

Absolutely. But since some of the routes they tried then have stuck around (LGB), I just don't think Blue gave it long enough, gave the route enough capacity, or, perhaps, cared enough about trying to make it work. Or it just really wasn't a viable route for them and they saw that after a year...

I do still find it interesting, especially given the history that Blue has in the SAN-SEA market, and IF this SEA-ANC announcement is a shot at AS, that Blue didn't dust off the SAN-SEA route and jump in there instead of what they have done? I know that SEA-ANC IS Alaska Airlines (as has been pointed out several times in this thread) and that's perhaps why B6 (sort of) chose it to try to strike at AS close to home.

And of course there is the theory that these 2 announcements are all just a big, juicy coincidence and have absolutely nothing to do with each other...  

Isn't A.net great?

bb

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-17 18:55:57 and read 5273 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
Why only one-way?

It's pretty isolated up there, not much to do other than enjoying the scenery. It's like everyone in town is trying to get back to civilization. (This is not a mock to anyone living in ANC, by the way) Snowbirds are the main thing in the winter and the summer season are the obvious tourists.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
Maybe it was the times you flew one way versus the other?

The flight times really do not matter. The SEA-bound flights from ANC are packed to the gills!!!

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
It would seem logical that for every person going one direction that there would be a person going the other direction - in an overall way?

You would think so, yeah. I get what you are saying. I honestly cannot explain it. ANC is something that is a non-rev nightmare to get out of. But getting to ANC is a piece of cake.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2012-11-17 20:01:08 and read 5291 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 24):
I do still find it interesting, especially given the history that Blue has in the SAN-SEA market, and IF this SEA-ANC announcement is a shot at AS, that Blue didn't dust off the SAN-SEA route and jump in there instead of what they have done? I know that SEA-ANC IS Alaska Airlines (as has been pointed out several times in this thread) and that's perhaps why B6 (sort of) chose it to try to strike at AS close to home.

SEA-ANC has several things going for it:

1. It can be marketed as a seasonal route, but stick around if the need is there.
2. It's almost like a "sure thing" as there is a ton of demand in the corridor in the summer and not a lot of options other than AS.
3. SEA-SAN has AS, WN, UA, DL, VX, and US as options (all but AS one-stop), so they would be competing with many more options. SEA-ANC has AS, a little UA, and that's about it, at least in the nonstop SEA-ANC corridor.
4. SEA-ANC is, as you say, a great use for an aircraft overnight. SEA-SAN would suck in that regard.

IMHO.

-Dave

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-11-17 22:24:09 and read 5387 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 26):
SEA-ANC has several things going for it:

Not to mention the tonnage of freight that is transported back and forth between SEA and ANC. B6 could make quite a bit of money just on freight alone.

However, this would the first time the SEA-ANC has seen a low-cost carrier since the days of Reno Air, Mark Air and AirCal.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2012-11-17 23:43:40 and read 5385 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 27):
However, this would the first time the SEA-ANC has seen a low-cost carrier since the days of Reno Air, Mark Air and AirCal.

I'm hopeful it will be successful, but the one thing that UA has that B6 doesn't is the amount of feed/connections at SEA. They can stick it out year round but JetBlue might be hardpressed to make it work in the off season.

I would love to see airfares on the route down around $300 or so RT so that we could afford to go visit my dad more. I've spent enough time in Alaska that I'm not all that excited to go for the scenery, so to speak, but it'd be nice for the family to fly up instead of him having to fly down. I'm not sure if JetBlue can do that, or is even interested in doing that, but if they do, we'd have to book a trip.

-Dave

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: N737AA
Posted 2012-11-20 10:55:49 and read 5327 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
Getting to ANC as a non-rev is not really a problem, but getting out of ANC is a whole 'nuther ball game, a royal pain in the butt!!!! Having said that, B6 did not add that flight for non-rev's. That would be obviously silly to do.

If nothing else its another non-rev "escape route".

N737AA

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-20 11:06:11 and read 5327 times.

Quoting N737AA (Reply 29):
If nothing else its another non-rev "escape route".

Not really. The non-rev issue is still there with B6 adding this one flight. Sure, it helps with the yields, but the change is only a very tiny fraction, which is less than 1%.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: UA735WL
Posted 2012-11-20 11:30:42 and read 5332 times.

B6 should tread carefully......AS is VERY good at defending its turf....

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: CalebWilliams
Posted 2012-11-20 12:03:35 and read 5327 times.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 14):
Something ridicules like 80% (I don't know what the actual number is but it is insanely high) of Anchorage residents are Alaska frequent fliers.

I think one of the reasons for this is because AS offers Alaska residents various way to earn Alaska Airlines miles. For instance, when customers have GCI (local telecommunications company with a huge marketshare especially in the ANC area), you get a mile per dollar spend on cable/internet/cell phone/home phone, etc., so you can earn miles very quickly if you have cell phone or two and/or cable and internet.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2012-11-20 12:59:41 and read 5298 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
It's pretty isolated up there, not much to do other than enjoying the scenery. It's like everyone in town is trying to get back to civilization. (This is not a mock to anyone living in ANC, by the way) Snowbirds are the main thing in the winter and the summer season are the obvious tourists.

And never come back? Doesn't really answer the question.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-20 13:02:41 and read 5309 times.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 33):
And never come back? Doesn't really answer the question.

I don't know, as I said before. You'd have to ask AS that question. I'm only speaking from experience. I'd go back to ANC anytime, but not as a non-rev. Non-revving to ANC, for myself, is in the past and never, ever again.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-11-20 13:25:40 and read 5300 times.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 33):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
It's pretty isolated up there, not much to do other than enjoying the scenery. It's like everyone in town is trying to get back to civilization. (This is not a mock to anyone living in ANC, by the way) Snowbirds are the main thing in the winter and the summer season are the obvious tourists.

And never come back? Doesn't really answer the question.

At least during the summer I think there's a lot of Alaska cruise traffic that flies one way and cruises the other when they don't have time for the round trip cruise.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2012-11-20 13:36:49 and read 5334 times.

SEA-ANC is one of the busiest routes in the nation. There are about 20 daily flights in the summer (19 AS and 1 UA). There is enough demand for JetBlue.

AS did successfully drive off Mark Air and Reno Air in the 1990s when they each operated SEA-ANC. AS has a strong frequent flyer network and floods the market, so it can be hard for another airline to enter the route, even though there is demand. In SEA and ANC, everyone knows AS, they are all members of its generous frequent flyer program that codeshares with everyone, they all have the Alaska Airlines Visa, and they can choose from hourly service throughout the day on the route. JetBlue has to win on product or price. LiveTV doesn't work to Alaska, so they have to do it a different way.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-11-20 13:51:29 and read 5333 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 36):
(19 AS and 1 UA)

UA now has 2X daily SEA-ANC flights.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 36):
AS did successfully drive off Mark Air and Reno Air in the 1990s when they each operated SEA-ANC.

I don't know if that's completely accurate. AS may have had an impact, but it was bad management at Mark Air and the absorption of Reno Air into AA that pulled them out of the markets. Pretty much when Wien and later, Mark Air, tried their chips in the Lower 48, they got eaten alive and never recovered from their losses. Air Cal also tried SEA-ANC with ex-Wien airplanes, but discontinued service.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-11-21 02:42:24 and read 5070 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 37):
I don't know if that's completely accurate. AS may have had an impact, but it was bad management at Mark Air and the absorption of Reno Air into AA that pulled them out of the markets. Pretty much when Wien and later, Mark Air, tried their chips in the Lower 48, they got eaten alive and never recovered from their losses. Air Cal also tried SEA-ANC with ex-Wien airplanes, but discontinued service

You are so right Wedge, both BF & WC's demise came when they tried to get into the lower 48 flying, and very quickly at that. Here are a few examples of how both carriers got caught up in the excessive 80's & 90's, too bad they are both gone,WC was nice to fly with.

WC 02/82 - http://www.departedflights.com/WC021582.html
WC 09/83 - http://www.departedflights.com/WC091083.html
WC 03/84 - http://www.departedflights.com/WC030284.html

BF 06/91 - http://www.departedflights.com/BF060891.html
BF 09/93 - http://www.departedflights.com/BF090793.html
BF 01/95 - http://www.departedflights.com/BF010295.html

As you can see, both carriers went from flying Alaska, to flying 73S's all over the place. IIRC WC operated a handful of 72S aircraft, they seemed to operate many different routes. I know AS has done the same thing, but not in under 4 years, they have grown at a safe & steady speed. Huh, guess the tortoise does always win the race. RIP BF & WC.

With relation to B6 flying to ANC from SEA, I bet their planes will be full during the season they plan to operate, they may charge less than AS or UA, they will likely be a decent amount of connecting traffic from JFK, BOS and LGB.

I assume the flight leaves Seattle 8-10pm turns around and leaves Anchorage 1-2am, making easy connections to and from all of JetBlues hub cities in Seattle. This will mot even make a dent in AS's operation for the route. AS & B6 seem to have these mild pissing matches, and each tosses a shot across the others bow from time to time, they are watching.

[Edited 2012-11-21 02:43:46]

[Edited 2012-11-21 02:45:44]

[Edited 2012-11-21 02:50:52]

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-11-21 07:44:57 and read 4919 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 37):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 36):
AS did successfully drive off Mark Air and Reno Air in the 1990s when they each operated SEA-ANC.

I don't know if that's completely accurate. AS may have had an impact, but it was bad management at Mark Air and the absorption of Reno Air into AA that pulled them out of the markets. Pretty much when Wien and later, Mark Air, tried their chips in the Lower 48, they got eaten alive and never recovered from their losses. Air Cal also tried SEA-ANC with ex-Wien airplanes, but discontinued service.

AS didn't drive QQ out of the market. QQ was still serving SEA-ANC at the time of the AA gutting. AA continued SEA-ANC with an MD-80 for awhile after as part of a SJC-SEA-ANC routing. AA eventually dropped SEA-ANC (and SJC-SEA and everything else....) after a year or two. I wouldn't say that AS drove them out, per se. We know how committed AA is/was to SEA and SJC, etc.

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 31):
B6 should tread carefully......AS is VERY good at defending its turf..

Yep. I was especially impressed at how AS took on G4 at BLI a bit when G4 started getting too big for AS's britches in their Pacific Northwest territory.

The only route that I recall AS backing down on when a competitor entered the market is SJC-AUS.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-11-21 09:07:27 and read 4795 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 15):
The late night/early morning flight pattern is very common on SEA-ANC-SEA. Even as a kid in the 70's we would always fly SEA-ANC leaving around 9pm, and then ANC-SEA leaving around 1am. It's a great use for an aircraft - ideal, really. I just hated getting to the airport up there at that hour.

The ANC-SEA also allows allows for better connecting to most if not all SEA bank of flights flying to the East coast.

AS use to run a seasonal JNU (Juneau) SEA flight which left in the 1:00 AM hour usually arriving in SEA about 5:15 AM with the time change for the very same reason. It was hit or miss. I've seen it full and half empty to as few as twenty. AS offered it on a three day advance purchase fare.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-11-21 09:14:02 and read 4774 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 40):
AS use to run a seasonal JNU (Juneau) SEA flight which left in the 1:00 AM hour usually arriving in SEA about 5:15 AM with the time change for the very same reason. It was hit or miss. I've seen it full and half empty to as few as twenty. AS offered it on a three day advance purchase fare.

Yeah, I looked at that once too. It was a heck of a red-eye. I recall it left JNU at 1:00am and arrived in SEA at 4:00am, local times. Last time I looked, the flight was no longer there.

Let's see if B6 tries to break AS's monopoly at JNU. I would think that would challenge AS more than one token SEA-ANC flight.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: flyby519
Posted 2012-11-21 09:23:55 and read 4743 times.

How about aircraft rotations? I havent researched but is this just another case of sending an a/c somewhere instead of letting it sit idle somewhere like LGB or SEA?

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: wnflyguy
Posted 2012-11-21 09:44:57 and read 4702 times.

I think this market will stay year round at B6.
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.
This is a Market that my beloved WN has been a sleep at the wheel for years since they took over Morris air.
Good job B6.
wnfg 

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-11-21 10:17:39 and read 4654 times.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.

I have a hunch moose wouldn't qualify for the free piece of checked baggage!

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-11-21 10:27:03 and read 4645 times.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
I think this market will stay year round at B6.
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.

As much as I'm a big fan of AS, the charge for first checked bag infuriates me. I was really hoping that B6 and WN would really stick it to them by offering free bag(s) and force AS to rescind that policy. I do know a large SEA ski club that booked their RNO trips on WN instead of QX solely because of AS's bag fees. So I was hoping WN and B6 would win over more AS business and cause them to change the policy back to one free bag.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: wnflyguy
Posted 2012-11-21 12:00:45 and read 4551 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 44):

Funny. But a extra bag of gear is a savings of almost $50 dollars round trip.
wnfg 

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: atct
Posted 2012-11-21 13:39:39 and read 4478 times.

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 3):
I mentioned UA and CO separately with the intent of showing other airlines also flew the route (and a single flight each) despite Alaska's dominance.

UA stopped flying back in 06 I believe. With the CO merger, they picked up CO's SEA-ANC runs (and since expanded alot!).


As a local of Anchorage I can say the flights are feast or famine. Many times its oversold, many times its so wide open that I get the whole row to myself. I cant non-rev anymore as im no longer with the airlines but as a paying passenger (and jumpseat traveller twice a year) I can say it is either wide open, or impossible to get on. Same goes for the jumpseat. Sometimes I list and im the only one, other times its a cozy compartment up there in the front of the 737 with 4 people. UPS/FedEx'ers, just move here and stop the commute hastle  

atct

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-11-21 23:25:32 and read 4150 times.

I have no doubt this route will work, even if it's just seasonal. During the summer there is a lot of traffic as everyone else indicated.

Premerger, CO had flown SEA-ANC for a near eternity it seemed. My father (retired CO captain) flew the flight a few times and I think it that might have even been in the 80's, and CO never had a big presence at SEA. I remember CO was in ANC in 1992, so they were there long before that. Obviously there was room and a niche for them. SEA-ANC was only one of a couple nonhub routes for CO. I think this history is interesting and relevant to the thread. Other players can compete, they choose not to.

B6 is not a no-name airline either.

I think SEA-ANC over the summer is a fairly low risk idea. I am just wondering if they would contract ticket agents and groundhandling there to a third party.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-11-22 04:46:08 and read 4077 times.

I think UA added a 2nd year round nonstop because they decided that if they were going to serve the market at all, it was worth it to be more competitive, and now the combined company has more resources.

Anyway, I think this a great move for B6. Plenty of traffic to go around.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2012-11-22 13:08:30 and read 3904 times.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.

Not a factor; Alaskans who are members of Club 49 (and most are!) get their bags free on AS already.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-11-22 23:53:45 and read 3705 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 49):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 48):
B6 is not a no-name airline either.

It is up here in the Pacific Northwest, unlike AS which is a household name.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-11-23 00:22:27 and read 3700 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 51):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 49):Quoting klwright69 (Reply 48):B6 is not a no-name airline either.
It is up here in the Pacific Northwest, unlike AS which is a household name.


True. But B6 can build awareness over time.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2012-11-23 01:41:00 and read 3663 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 52):
2012 01:22:27 your local timeFri Nov 23 2012 00:22:27 UTC (1 hour 13 minutes 50 secs ago) and read 55 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 51):Quoting klwright69 (Reply 49):Quoting klwright69 (Reply 48):B6 is not a no-name airline either.
It is up here in the Pacific Northwest, unlike AS which is a household name.

True. But B6 can build awareness over time.

Unlikely; in the PNW, "buy local" actually means something. I don't know that I see this route working out for B6.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: alaska737
Posted 2012-11-23 10:55:10 and read 3496 times.

I think this will be great for jumpeseaters. AS is always full and you're lucky if you can get a middle seat in the back or one of the jumpseats. UA is usually empty but in the summer they fill up a little more so it will be very nice to have another option when the tourists begin flocking this way.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: wingnutmn
Posted 2012-11-23 11:00:56 and read 3498 times.

I don't understand why they would fly SEA-ANC, even if it is only a redeye, but won't fly a MSP-BOS or MSP-JFK because DL is too strong on the route. I guess we will never see B6 in the midwest other than ORD.

Wingnut

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-11-23 12:10:17 and read 3439 times.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 50):
Not a factor; Alaskans who are members of Club 49 (and most are!)

Business travelers yes. I might argue many Alaskans and tourist who fly once or twice a year and there are many who are not members of AS Club 49

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-23 12:32:29 and read 3388 times.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 54):
I think this will be great for jumpeseaters

I think you have to be in CASS to jumpseat.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: alaska737
Posted 2012-11-23 18:10:07 and read 3213 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 57):
I think you have to be in CASS to jumpseat.

Are you referring to me? I am in CASS.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-23 19:26:45 and read 3148 times.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 58):
Are you referring to me? I am in CASS.

Not every airline employee is qualified to be in CASS. Just thought I'd point that out before anyone here gets confused.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-11-24 03:13:33 and read 2961 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 52):
True. But B6 can build awareness over time

B6 has been in the Northwest for many years, yet there is no public recognition still, it won't happen here, below is the answer why B6 won't take much, if anything away from AS up here.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 53):
Unlikely; in the PNW, "buy local" actually means something.

It sure does mean something up here, people are pretty brand loyal and local companies always head the list of preferred providers that Northwesterners do business with. Ask Nike, REI, Columbia Sportswear, Fred Meyer and Alaska Airlines.
There is a reason WN has not done well flying within the Northwest, and now WN has pulled down many routes, even though AS was not always the cheapest option.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: alaska737
Posted 2012-11-24 07:39:20 and read 2863 times.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 59):

Right just flight crew on airlines that are members of CASS. I was just saying its a great deal for me really to have another option because I fly back and forth a lot.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-11-24 07:56:09 and read 2832 times.

Before the CO merger didn't UA do DEN-ANC?

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: santi319
Posted 2012-11-24 08:32:42 and read 2781 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 60):
B6 has been in the Northwest for many years, yet there is no public recognition still, it won't happen here, below is the answer why B6 won't take much, if anything away from AS up here.

Lol! I love all these a-netters that everytime an airline that dominates a market, like AA or AS or WN, gets competition of a lcc like NK or B6, they really believe that they are "aiming" at other passengers and not the ones that fly that route regularly. Just remember, how WN started.......

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: mtnwest1979
Posted 2012-11-24 10:49:21 and read 2678 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 62):
Before the CO merger didn't UA do DEN-ANC?

Yes, as well as SFO and ORD, but it was all seasonal IIRC.

Last DC-10 trip I had was UA SEA-ANC in 2000(?) they had stubbed a 733. Very wide open lol.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: ASFlyer
Posted 2012-11-24 12:31:03 and read 2577 times.

Quoting santi319 (Reply 63):
Just remember, how WN started.......

Yes, in a very regulated industry and by offering low fares that nobody else offered at the time with extraordinarily low costs. Fast forward to 2012 and it's a different industry with different consumers.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2012-11-24 13:58:04 and read 2531 times.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 61):
Right just flight crew on airlines that are members of CASS.

You forgot mechanics and dispatchers.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-11-24 17:01:21 and read 2429 times.

Quoting santi319 (Reply 63):

Lol! I love all these a-netters that everytime an airline that dominates a market, like AA or AS or WN, gets competition of a lcc like NK or B6,

1 seasonal flight vs 18 daily flights is not even close to "competition". AS itself, on it's website touts themselves as an LCC.

Quoting santi319 (Reply 63):
they really believe that they are "aiming" at other passengers and not the ones that fly that route regularly.

In NK's case, that is mostly true, NK gets people flying that often times would not have flown otherwise.

There is a finite number of passengers that will fly SEA-ANC-SEA, so AS flies 18 flights a day instead of 19 no big deal, the people that will fly B6 vs AS on this route are not the customers AS is really vying for. AS goes for the repeat traveller, and with an extremely loyal fan base in Alaska and the Pacific Northwest, B6 will not be anything more than one in a long list of carriers that have flown, or still do, fly SEA-ANC-SEA against AS and operate one or two daily flights.

Chances are the B6 flight will operate as a one stop from JFK and there will be a certain number of through passengers that AS was never going to capture anyway. In addition there is non-stop service from the NYC area to ANC B6 will need to compete with as well.

Quoting santi319 (Reply 63):
Just remember, how WN started.......

Indeed a beautiful story, however in the Northwest WN is a poor example in relation to competition with AS, WN has not done well up here, despite many years of trying. AS dominates up here, and for the most part, travellers support them.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: atct
Posted 2012-11-24 19:38:15 and read 2348 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 62):
Before the CO merger didn't UA do DEN-ANC?

This ended in 2006 I believe. United was gone for 3 or 4 years before the merger brought "them" back again via pmCO flights. All the current (since 2008) flights are pmCO aircraft and crews.

atct

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2012-11-24 21:46:13 and read 2256 times.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56):

My information says your argument is horribly flawed.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: yeelep
Posted 2012-11-25 02:33:10 and read 2168 times.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 43):
I think this market will stay year round at B6.
With one free checked bag this will be a hit with Hunters and fisher men.
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 50):
Not a factor; Alaskans who are members of Club 49 (and most are!) get their bags free on AS already
Why on earth would an Alaskan want to travel outside the state to hunt or fish?

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56):
Business travelers yes. I might argue many Alaskans and tourist who fly once or twice a year and there are many who are not members of AS Club 49
I would assume that most Business travelers that fly AS ANC-SEA-ANC are already MVP or above, so they haven't any need for Club49. Whether tourist or not, one of the requirements is to be a resident of Alaska. Since its introduction just over a year ago, Club49 has 38% of the population of Alaska as members.

The only B6 baggage advantage I can see is if you check only one bag. Two bags, AS and B6 are the same price, three bags B6 is more expensive.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: tdscanuck
Posted 2012-11-25 05:51:26 and read 2111 times.

Quoting yeelep (Reply 70):
Why on earth would an Alaskan want to travel outside the state to hunt or fish?

Does Alaska have year-round hunting & fishing (both legal season and weather)? I'm pretty sure a lot of tasty birds get the heck out of Alaska for the winter.

Topic: RE: JetBlue To Launch SEA-ANC
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2012-11-25 08:10:57 and read 2054 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 60):
It sure does mean something up here, people are pretty brand loyal and local companies always head the list of preferred providers that Northwesterners do business with. Ask Nike, REI, Columbia Sportswear, Fred Meyer and Alaska Airlines.

Very true...AS is most definitely the hometown airline, as is Boeing is the hometown aircraft (AS will never buy Airbus...never), Nordstrom the hometown department store, Bartells the hometown drugstore, Costco the hometown big-box, Amazon the hometown web retailer, etc. People in the PNW are loyal and reward companies that employ their neighbors and themselves. AS was named the top public company in the PNW for 2012 by the Seattle Times. They are doing their best to be PDX's hometown airline as well. ANC is a given.   

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 67):
B6 will not be anything more than one in a long list of carriers that have flown, or still do, fly SEA-ANC-SEA against AS and operate one or two daily flights.

Agree...much ado about nothing. One flight a day and all of this hooplah! Others have come and gone the last 30 years on SEA-ANC....they always get their ass eventually kicked back to the lower 48. The only one I could see remotely challenging AS on this route is WN but there is so much loyality towards AS that I don't think even they could do anything but make a very small dent.


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