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Topic: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: QANTAS747-438
Posted 2012-11-26 22:32:43 and read 6097 times.

Though Southwest has added the 737-800 to its fleet, is there any need for a -900ER (not standard -900) whether to supplement flights or for added destinations? Also, what are the operational cost comparisons of a -900ER to a -700 or -800?

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2012-11-26 22:54:31 and read 6045 times.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Thread starter):
Though Southwest has added the 737-800 to its fleet, is there any need for a -900ER (not standard -900) whether to supplement flights or for added destinations? Also, what are the operational cost comparisons of a -900ER to a -700 or -800?

In a high density config that WN would operate the type in, I don't see the point.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: AA737-823
Posted 2012-11-27 01:14:47 and read 5888 times.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 1):
In a high density config that WN would operate the type in, I don't see the point.

215 seats instead of 189 in the -800.

I, personally, don't think so. But that's based on WN's system working for so long with two sizes: -200/-500 size, and -300/-700 size.
But now, if they're making the -800 work, then I don't see why they couldn't make a -900 work.
EXCEPT, perhaps, because their model never really seems to involve high load factors.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Thread starter):
is there any need for a -900ER (not standard -900)

The base -900 is no longer on offer; production standard is -9ER.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: MEA-707
Posted 2012-11-27 03:14:04 and read 5712 times.

I think it's a matter of time before we see 9ER-sized 737s in Southwests fleet. But probably they let pass the current 900ER and get 9MAX-es eventually.
They seem to like their 800s and don't want to get any more 700s/7MAX-es so another expansion of aircraft size is logical when we are a few years of steady market growth further.
In Southwests typical seating pitch the 900ER/9MAX can seat 200, in which case only 4 F/A's are needed so crews can be easily interchanged between 8s and 9s.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: par13del
Posted 2012-11-27 03:27:11 and read 5680 times.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 3):
In Southwests typical seating pitch the 900ER/9MAX can seat 200,

Whic is often overlooked, WN base seat pitch is usually greater than 30", those who have never travelled on WN hear the comments about cattle call and may assume it also mean as many as possibel crammed into the a/c.

As other posters mentioned, WN original model is based on frequency not high load factors on each flight, in some areas that is changing, whether it is an indication that WN is now going to the same model as all other legacy carriers is yet to be seen. Additionally, they have been reducing the transcons in favour of shorter flights as they were not as profitable, the ER model looses efficiency when operated on short stage lengths, so the trade off with increased capacity will be much closer and require a more "discriminating" route selection process.
In my mind the jury is still out on the 800 purchase for slot restricted airports, everyone is sure of La Guardia, I do not compare that airport in the make up of WN routes to an airport like LHR, but as usual, time will tell.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2012-11-27 04:09:36 and read 5591 times.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 3):

Agreed. I would imagine there are a number of routes where a 9MAX would make sense. Like you said, at this point a 900ER is probably moot, but a 9MAX definitely.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-11-27 08:17:52 and read 5233 times.

The 800 has been getting extremely good reviews so far and are beating expectations. I really won't be shocked if we see the next size up added to the fleet at some point. It may all come down to the amount of int'l growth the airline does.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: 1337Delta764
Posted 2012-11-27 08:48:11 and read 5099 times.

One problem with WN ordering the -900ER would be that it would require a fifth FA. Adding a fourth FA was quite an issue for WN prior to ordering the -800, and I am not sure that WN would want to go through the trouble of adding a fifth.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2012-11-27 08:57:31 and read 5059 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
One problem with WN ordering the -900ER would be that it would require a fifth FA. Adding a fourth FA was quite an issue for WN prior to ordering the -800, and I am not sure that WN would want to go through the trouble of adding a fifth.

Not necessarily - as mentioned above, I think a major factor would be putting right at 200 seats to use the same 4 FA's as an 800. Now, that may not provide enough additional capacity and revenue to justify the purchase, but if it could work, I think they'd have to stick with a 200 cap because that 5th FA would just not be worth it for 20ish extra seats. To me at least, the whole idea is pegged to whether you can get 9MAX's for a relatively small premium over an 8, and could crew them the same as an 8.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: strfyr51
Posted 2012-11-27 09:08:23 and read 5018 times.

Let's face it! Southwest WILL be getting the -900 or the -9 not because they want to, but because they Have to!
When you fly only 1 type of airplane and you grow and Grow like WN has? Sooner or later they'll reach critical mass where the ONLY was is to go all out. They could have already supported a 767-200 some years ago, Everybody knows that already. So it's either 1000 737-700/800 series or go bigger with the -900/-9's Anything else?? is just Excuses!!

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2012-11-27 10:23:43 and read 4847 times.

Southwest Airlines has a lower load factor than many other US airlines. They average around 80% whereas other airlines that operate a hub and spoke network tend to average a bit higher.

Southwest goes after O/D. There are some connections, but Southwest really focuses on O/D routes and the fare structure and hubs do not lead to competitive connections at the rate that other airlines have. Because of the O/D nonstop route dependency in their network, smaller airplanes work better. Southwest also has high frequency on key routes. The 737-800 offers an increase in capacity and for now I think that is good enough.

The 737-900ER is great for airlines that have high capacity routes and have a hub and spoke network. There are some routes during peak times that could easily fill a 737-900ER, but I'm not sure overall that the they could keep a 900ER full all day long and across their network.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: barney captain
Posted 2012-11-27 10:25:28 and read 4840 times.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 9):
They could have already supported a 767-200 some years ago, Everybody knows that already.

We could have? Based on what? Everybody?

I personally don't see any point in a 900ER, the MAX9 maybe - but not the ER. There was a reason some 800's got deferred (and likely converted) in to the MAX delivery time frame, greater efficiency and capability. The same holds true for the 900ER.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2012-11-27 10:31:57 and read 4805 times.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 11):
I personally don't see any point in a 900ER

I agree, and I've said this in another similar post, and will say it again. WN has to work out its own issues first ( with the 800, FL merger, unions,etc ) before they could even think about adding a longer 737. Hopefully the issues will all be fixed in time for the 737MAX arrival in 2017.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-11-27 11:54:23 and read 4597 times.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 9):
They could have already supported a 767-200 some years ago

On which routes? And how is mentioning a 762 relevant when they have stated time and time again that they want to stick with one aircraft type (737)? I suspect that many WN experts would disagree with you on your assertion. As others have said, WN is about frequency, and short-haul over long-haul. The MAX9 could possibly work for them, but I agree that they should sort out other issues first.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-11-27 13:50:45 and read 4409 times.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 11):
I personally don't see any point in a 900ER, the MAX9 maybe - but not the ER. There was a reason some 800's got deferred (and likely converted) in to the MAX delivery time frame, greater efficiency and capability. The same holds true for the 900ER.

The only play I can really see the -9MAX would be Central and South America. Maybe Alaska and Hawaii. Longer routes that will be somewhat limited on frequency but still have higher capacity demands.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2012-11-27 14:07:51 and read 4354 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 14):
The only play I can really see the -9MAX would be Central and South America. Maybe Alaska and Hawaii. Longer routes that will be somewhat limited on frequency but still have higher capacity demands.

I was wondering if they might need them for transcons too - how many x daily can you run BWI-LAX, BWI-MDW, etc. without just turning them into another ORD-LGA?

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-11-27 15:59:02 and read 4155 times.

Boeing's all-Economy OEM configuration for the 737-800 is 175 seats at 32-inch pitch, which is equal to Southwest's configuration.

Boeing's all-Economy OEM configuration for the 737-900ER is 204 at 30" pitch or 215 at 28" pitch, so with a 32" pitch Southwest could fit less than or equal to 200 seats and only need four cabin crew.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-11-27 16:04:57 and read 4132 times.

I think we will see it happen in the next few years, most likely the MAX, not the ER.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
Boeing's all-Economy OEM configuration for the 737-900ER is 204 at 30" pitch or 215 at 28" pitch, so with a 32" pitch Southwest could fit less than or equal to 200 seats and only need four cabin crew.

Perfect for Southwest!

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2012-11-27 20:04:51 and read 3522 times.

My original thought was that the poster was asking about range potential (he mentioned specifically going for the ER vs the reg 900 although im aware that only the ER is offered today) in which case any additional range will be eaten up in an all Y config. My point was that their 800s can do whatever the 900 can potentially do but of course less people.

Now, if we are just talking about larger a/c...idk. Look at how long it took them to order the 800.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: DariusBieber
Posted 2012-11-27 20:53:03 and read 3166 times.

I could honestly see SW ordering smaller jets than larger ones..

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: ODwyerPW
Posted 2012-11-27 22:26:44 and read 2657 times.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
One problem with WN ordering the -900ER would be that it would require a fifth FA. Adding a fourth FA was quite an issue for WN prior to ordering the -800, and I am not sure that WN would want to go through the trouble of adding a fifth.

You spec it at 199... no 5th flight attendant.

I am surprised that the 7Max wasn't lenghtened a bit to provide a true 149pax plane in Southwest Config (Pitch). Again, maximizing pax count without adding flight attendants. Not just a plane for southwest, but for other carriers.

Sorry Stitch... missed that you said the same thing about 9max and 199.

[Edited 2012-11-27 22:27:48]

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: strfyr51
Posted 2012-11-28 00:22:51 and read 2476 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):

You mean to tell us that WN Can't support flying a -900 sized airplane?? Really?? There are NO trunk routes that make the -900 viable?? I'm not going to say you're wrong because I don't know but I find that HARD to Believe..

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2012-11-28 00:51:48 and read 2447 times.

Now that Southwest has broken the 'single type' taboo, (not counting classics), I think getting yet another type is more likely than less.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: wwtraveler99
Posted 2012-11-28 05:41:43 and read 2290 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 22):

Huh? WN still only operates one aircraft type...the 737. Now they do have 4 different models of that type but its still just one type.

I have heard that the -800 is NOT performing as expected. I also do expect at some point WN will order the -900er. Now I dont know if that means the MAX or not, but I do see the -900er at some point.


WW

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2012-11-28 05:46:54 and read 2282 times.

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 23):
Huh? WN still only operates one aircraft type...the 737.

Ok....model. Sheesh.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2012-11-28 06:05:25 and read 2331 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 22):
Now that Southwest has broken the 'single type' taboo, (not counting classics), I think getting yet another type is more likely than less.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 24):
Ok....model. Sheesh.

You would be wrong in that sense too. Let's say you were talking about "classics" vs "NGs"; well, they've had the 73-700 for quite a while. Alongside the 500s and 300s. None the less, WN is still a single type carrier. If you're talking about model, that bird flew a long time ago.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-11-28 07:56:54 and read 2220 times.

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 23):
I have heard that the -800 is NOT performing as expected.

This is true. It is performing better than expected from everything I've heard.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 25):
You would be wrong in that sense too. Let's say you were talking about "classics" vs "NGs"; well, they've had the 73-700 for quite a while. Alongside the 500s and 300s. None the less, WN is still a single type carrier. If you're talking about model, that bird flew a long time ago.

This.

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: HOMsAR
Posted 2012-11-28 10:16:22 and read 2079 times.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 25):

You would be wrong in that sense too. Let's say you were talking about "classics" vs "NGs"; well, they've had the 73-700 for quite a while. Alongside the 500s and 300s. None the less, WN is still a single type carrier. If you're talking about model, that bird flew a long time ago.

To be more specific, that was about three decades ago when they introduced the larger 737-300 alongside their fleet of 737-200s. (We'll ignore the couple of brief stints of flying 727s.)

Topic: RE: Could Southwest Use A -900ER?
Username: 737tanker
Posted 2012-11-28 11:18:57 and read 1984 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 24):
Ok....model. Sheesh.

WN has had 4 models of the 737 before when they operated the 737-200, 737-300, 737-500, and 737-700.


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