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Topic: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: gdg9
Posted 2012-11-26 06:43:52 and read 12680 times.

QF 7 to DFW is not operating today, and also did not operate last Wednesday (11/21). Is there a reason this flight has seen two cancellations in 6 days? Is the six strong 744/ER fleet being stretched thin? Or are other reasons at play here and it is just a coincidence to have the recent cancels? Just curious, thanks.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2012-11-26 10:03:49 and read 12259 times.

I'm surprised no one has any idea..?

How is QF doing Load wise on these flights?

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: gdg9
Posted 2012-11-26 10:15:49 and read 12200 times.

About 75% LF for Sept based on numbers put out by the airport.

http://tinyurl.com/dfwts12

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-26 10:16:13 and read 12193 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
How is QF doing Load wise on these flights?

I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: gdg9
Posted 2012-11-26 10:23:40 and read 12137 times.

I doubt that will happen.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-26 11:00:45 and read 11987 times.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 4):
I doubt that will happen.

If Qantas does not come back to SFO then someone else will----the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: legacyins
Posted 2012-11-26 11:10:44 and read 11927 times.

QF has too many issues going on now. I rather have VA at SFO than QF.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: texan
Posted 2012-11-26 11:13:39 and read 11909 times.

Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of flights--both ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.

Texan

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-26 11:20:19 and read 11854 times.

Quoting texan (Reply 8):
Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of flights--both ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.

Do you mean on the DFW-SYD flights?

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: VC10DC10
Posted 2012-11-26 11:34:33 and read 11775 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):
the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day

Has UA increased frequency on this route? Surely they have enough aircraft to increase frequency to, say, 10x weekly if they felt the traffic and potential revenue justified it.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-26 11:45:02 and read 11721 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

Actually, its doing very well. The 744 is not the ideal aircraft for it (a 77L would be better), but its proved to be a great decision by QF.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thomasphoto60
Posted 2012-11-26 11:46:32 and read 11707 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

Or better yet, correct their error in the choice of cities and make that trek some 240 miles to the south at that other town      

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-26 12:03:29 and read 11607 times.

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 10):

Has UA increased frequency on this route? Surely they have enough aircraft to increase frequency to, say, 10x weekly if they felt the traffic and potential revenue justified it.

UA mangagement is not smart enough to do so and yes they have 747-400's parked in the desert but will keep one flight per day to SYD and charge high fares and crew them with high senority and surly flight attendants-----we Bay Area people are praying for competition on this route.......

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: sfoa380
Posted 2012-11-26 13:37:04 and read 11316 times.

The best thing UA could do is start 787 to MEL and possibly BNE. More than likely QF will re-enter this market as it's far too big and important to ignore. VA would be an awesome addition as well.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: sonomaflyer
Posted 2012-11-26 13:41:08 and read 11293 times.

I could see UA cranking up 789 service in a few years from LAX and/or SFO to MEL. QF is making the best with the equipment they have available and they seem to be doing well on the route. Its a pity they didn't have the fleet planning chops to have ordered 777-300ER's or 77L's.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: aerorobnz
Posted 2012-11-26 14:08:24 and read 11160 times.

In the past 3-4 weeks they have had chronic headwinds on return that have required 5-6 diversions in a row to AKL. I expect that is unrelated for the current cancellations but still....

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: texan
Posted 2012-11-26 14:09:38 and read 11160 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 9):
Quoting texan (Reply 8):Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of flights--both ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.
Do you mean on the DFW-SYD flights?

SYD-DFW and DFW-BNE, yep. On my last flight to DFW there were 2 open seats. 3 open seats on the flight back.

Texan

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: gdg9
Posted 2012-11-26 14:26:32 and read 11074 times.

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 12):
Or better yet, correct their error in the choice of cities and make that trek some 240 miles to the south at that other town

Come on, IAH gets plenty of int'l stuff, leave some for us in DFW!

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-26 14:46:34 and read 10970 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
How is QF doing Load wise on these flights?

I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

So you really think the route is "lousy" with the loads...? Please explain why the flight has gone from 4 a week to daily...? Qantas ain't dropping the route in favor of a SFO...
I would see QF return to SFO once the B789 fleet arrive but as for DFW the route without a doubt will be upgraded to A380 from 2020 when the carrier takes on the remainder of the HGW A380...

Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):
Quoting gdg9 (Reply 4):
I doubt that will happen.

If Qantas does not come back to SFO then someone else will----the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day

Why do you continue to state SFO is a bigger market than DFW from an Alliance perspective...?!?!?

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):

QF has too many issues going on now. I rather have VA at SFO than QF.

Please explain... As far I know it QF have streamlined their operations and either dropped flights in favor of profitable routes...

Quoting texan (Reply 8):
Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of
flights--both
ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.

Spot on.. Loads have been fantastic!

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......

Actually, its doing very well. The 744 is not the ideal aircraft for it (a 77L would be better), but its proved to be a great
decision by QF.

More than likely will be upgraded to an A380...

EK413

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: ipodguy7
Posted 2012-11-26 16:03:08 and read 10433 times.

Flew in from BNA-DFW last night (around 7-8pm) and saw the beautiful QF 747 at the D gates, so I guess it could be a mech. problem, since the plane is already here in Dallas? Either way, I was lucky enough to fly SYD-DFW on QF 7 in August, and would definitely hate to see it go!

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-26 16:37:00 and read 10049 times.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 2):
About 75% LF for Sept based on numbers put out by the airport.

http://tinyurl.com/dfwts12

Interesting Link. BITRE figures for August were:
DFW->BNE 5165
DFW->SYD 2641
SYD->DFW 10053

Has the market really tanked by 20% in September? Perhaps it is only counting the westbound flight, for which it seems about right, some slight growth.

FWIW, LF eastbound was about 82% in July, 89% in August

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I hope lousy so they will come back to SFO.......
Quoting EK413 (Reply 22):
So you really think the route is "lousy" with the loads...? Please explain why the flight has gone from 4 a week to daily...? Qantas ain't dropping the route in favor of a SFO...

Lighten up.

As for VA serving SYD-SFO, it seems to be an obvious move for them, but they haven't made it. One wonders why?

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-11-26 16:52:16 and read 9970 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 1):
How is QF doing Load wise on these flights?

Its all public info. Look at either DOT, BITRE or DFW airport stats.

While I don't have any inside info at QF, I believe the route is quite a valuable one from an alliance perspective and provides QF excellent connectivity for Central and Eastern US.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):
If Qantas does not come back to SFO then someone else will----the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day

Maybe so, but its still certainly a smaller market then LAX, and also in the case of QF a dead-end route with really no beyond options.

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 10):
Has UA increased frequency on this route? Surely they have enough aircraft to increase frequency to, say, 10x weekly if they felt the traffic and potential revenue justified it.

No, and in recent years when UA has added extra frequencies during the winter peak its been from LAX.

Again LAX is the far larger US-South Pacific market, hence the flights follow the customer demand.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 24):
As for VA serving SYD-SFO, it seems to be an obvious move for them, but they haven't made it. One wonders why?

With limited fleet, VA has gone after the largest market there is to the US and focused on LAX.

Matter of fact per an airport meeting a couple months back they actually stated they wanted to increase their LAX ops (provide consistent daily service to both BNE & MEL) when the fleet allows.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: sonomaflyer
Posted 2012-11-26 16:52:24 and read 9951 times.

VA might not have the equipment to start a flight to SFO. As for the load variations on the QF route, there are always variations depending on the time of year. They would not bump it to daily if the demand and yield was not there.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-26 17:01:42 and read 9902 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
With limited fleet, VA has gone after the largest market there is to the US and focused on LAX.

Last I heard they were struggling to find places to send their planes. They haven't even taken delivery of their last 2 planned planes and kept their fleet to 5 instead of 7.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
Matter of fact per an airport meeting a couple months back they actually stated they wanted to increase their LAX ops (provide consistent daily service to both BNE & MEL) when the fleet allows.

Hmm, Interesting. Sounds like their LAX ops are getting better financially then.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-11-26 17:18:52 and read 9674 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 27):
Hmm, Interesting. Sounds like their LAX ops are getting better financially then.

I get the feeling VA is keen on eventually expanding frequencies to help build on their partnership with Delta and Virgin America.
I think they realize as they seek to drive more premium travelers and to lessen reliance on backpack and tourist from both ends of the Pacific they will need to further build frequency here beyond the current 13x weekly.

So while SFO could be intriguing for VA with a VX tie-in, they already have that at LAX, plus the bonus of Delta relationship, and more importantly the fact that LA is bigger pie to begin with.

While some might be stuck on nostalgia, I can certainly understand how under difficult conditions how QF opted to go with DFW over SFO.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-11-26 17:24:07 and read 9940 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):
If Qantas does not come back to SFO then someone else will----the SFO-SYD market is bigger than one flight a day

They will not be back anytime soon as they connect with AA at LAX and at DFW, where as at SFO, there really is no Oneworld connections to be made.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-26 17:39:22 and read 9914 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):

They're at a bit of a disadvantage against QF on MEL-LAX with their equipment. I can't see how a 77W with some restrictions can compete with an unrestricted A388. They'd have to be paying their employees a lot less.

BNE-LAX seems to be where they might have an edge, but it is lower yielding.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: JasonCRH
Posted 2012-11-26 17:50:51 and read 9957 times.

...actually, if they make more money by NOT dumping capacity on the route, and if they have the pricing power to do so, then that actually is a VERY smart move. It's about making money, not being the "nice guy" and lowering fares for everybody. Staffing at UA and other legacy carriers is based on seniority, and seniority only. I've had some very nice flights onthose SFO - SYD flights with the senior staff. If they were to start an additional flight, it would also be staffed by seniority. overall, what they're doing is probably the right thing, assuming it's making them money.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 15):
UA mangagement is not smart enough to do so and yes they have 747-400's parked in the desert but will keep one flight per day to SYD and charge high fares and crew them with high senority and surly flight attendants-----we Bay Area people are praying for competition on this route.......

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-26 18:09:18 and read 9765 times.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 18):
In the past 3-4 weeks they have had chronic headwinds on return that have required 5-6 diversions in a row to AKL. I expect that is unrelated for the current cancellations but still....

I can see 2 diversions in the last 2 weeks on flightaware. No longer newsworthy, apparently.

Interesting that they are going to AKL instead of NAN/NOU.

Perhaps this time of year has stronger headwinds.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-26 18:11:31 and read 9694 times.

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 32):
...actually, if they make more money by NOT dumping capacity on the route, and if they have the pricing power to do so, then that actually is a VERY smart move. It's about making money, not being the "nice guy" and lowering fares for everybody. Staffing at UA and other legacy carriers is based on seniority, and seniority only. I've had some very nice flights onthose SFO - SYD flights with the senior staff. If they were to start an additional flight, it would also be staffed by seniority. overall, what they're doing is probably the right thing, assuming it's making them money.

Agree with you and my point is that is why they need some competition

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: ha763
Posted 2012-11-26 18:15:41 and read 9714 times.

Quoting gdg9 (Thread starter):

QF 7 to DFW is not operating today, and also did not operate last Wednesday (11/21). Is there a reason this flight has seen two cancellations in 6 days? Is the six strong 744/ER fleet being stretched thin? Or are other reasons at play here and it is just a coincidence to have the recent cancels? Just curious, thanks.

These are planned cancellations. A search of the weekly schedule on QF's site also shows QF7/8 not operating on Dec 24, Dec 30, and Feb 26. There probably is some maintenance scheduled for those days.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: gigneil
Posted 2012-11-26 19:04:40 and read 9188 times.

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 28):
...actually, if they make more money by NOT dumping capacity on the route, and if they have the pricing power to do so, then that actually is a VERY smart move.

Accurate.

I will agree there is demand. But United's new (winning strategy) is capacity discipline and pricing power.

They can continue to get it on SFO-SYD. So they're going to.

I often wonder about that service, and what the future holds... I should check into the PDEW for SFO to Australia and determine what amount of the traffic is connecting over the ever-strengthening SFO hub.

NS

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: ZaphodB
Posted 2012-11-26 19:17:24 and read 9201 times.

Quoting texan (Reply 7):

Although this doesn't give an accurate picture of loads or yields, on the couple of flights--both ways--I've taken there have been a grand total of 5 open seats. Ridiculously full.

Interesting. I took QF8 last month, J was full, W was full but there were 85 empty seats in Y. I asked the FA behind me (I was in 44A) how the loads have been and she told me they HAVE to leave with 50 seats empty to make BNE (hence the 75% LF?) or leave cargo behind - said they regularly leave Y pax behind (rather than cargo) at DFW but could fill the flight easily if they wanted to.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-26 19:31:56 and read 8970 times.

Quoting ZaphodB (Reply 33):
Interesting. I took QF8 last month, J was full, W was full but there were 85 empty seats in Y. I asked the FA behind me (I was in 44A) how the loads have been and she told me they HAVE to leave with 50 seats empty to make BNE (hence the 75% LF?) or leave cargo behind - said they regularly leave Y pax behind (rather than cargo) at DFW but could fill the flight easily if they wanted to.

I'm surprised they carry as much cargo on this route as they do. BITRE stats show 20.1t Aug westbound to SYD and 47.2t to BNE, with 28.5t eastbound. That's enough cargo to carry another 20 Y pax per day on average westbound.

Possibly because cargo is more flexible and doesn't whinge if bumped off due to slightly above average winds.

[Edited 2012-11-26 19:32:41]

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: ZaphodB
Posted 2012-11-26 19:42:26 and read 8880 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 34):
I'm surprised they carry as much cargo on this route as they do. BITRE stats show 20.1t Aug westbound to SYD and 47.2t to BNE, with 28.5t eastbound. That's enough cargo to carry another 20 Y pax per day on average westbound.

Possibly because cargo is more flexible and doesn't whinge if bumped off due to slightly above average winds.

That cargo plus all the fuel doesn't do much for the takeoff or climb performance ... makes the 343 look like an olympic pole vaulter, and brought back memories of the 707. Only departure I've known anything like that on a modern jet was an IB 346 at MAD when it was 42C outside.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: aerorobnz
Posted 2012-11-26 20:22:58 and read 8565 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 29):
Interesting that they are going to AKL instead of NAN/NOU.

QF have a crew base and plenty of flights to get crew into AKL to operate, it also has many flights to SYD/BNE/MEL if necessary to put passengers onto..

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-26 21:02:09 and read 8243 times.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 36):
QF have a crew base and plenty of flights to get crew into AKL to operate

Yes, a cabin crew base, but they would still need to bring in flight crew if these timed out. As you point out, this is easier in AKL than NAN/NOU.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: legacyins
Posted 2012-11-26 22:54:22 and read 7557 times.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 18):
QF has too many issues going on now. I rather have VA at SFO than QF.

Please explain... As far I know it QF have streamlined their operations and either dropped flights in favor of profitable routes...

To this date, I have not heard or read that QF has a profitable International division. The point is, QF, over the past year or so, has been getting negative press. From closing down to industrial actions to former management criticism. This is all be reported in the press and every day people are reading it. Whether it is true or not, who knows.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/ne...ckface-backfires-on-Qantas-Airways

http://www.smh.com.au/business/qanta...s-dire-straits-20120605-1zuc9.html

http://www.aipa.org.au/mediaroom/201...-turned-australians-against-qantas

http://afr.com/p/business/companies/...lenge_joyce_i9bm9SieKXLIUculg9wbaP

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-11-26 23:19:51 and read 7400 times.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 40):
To this date, I have not heard or read that QF has a profitable International division.

         Yes I agree the International division hasn't been performing as well as it should be but with all the changes implemented and the accelerated retirement of the aged B744 fleet the airline is on track to turn around in 2016... In saying that I wouldn't say the airline is in terrible shape...

Quoting legacyins (Reply 40):
The point is, QF, over the past year or so, has been getting negative press.

Many would agree the media are always hungry to attack QF... I didn't read any reports on the changes under going at NZ maintenance with hundred of jobs to be lost...?

EK413

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2012-11-27 04:35:28 and read 5827 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):

SFO- SYD is not big enough for more than one daily flight except at peak periods like Christmas. The vast majority of UA's pax are connecting.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: gdg9
Posted 2012-11-27 05:17:21 and read 5590 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 20):
Perhaps it is only counting the westbound flight, for which it seems about right, some slight growth.

Yes, these numbers are for the westbound flight leaving DFW. I suppose I should have made that clear in the post.

Quoting ha763 (Reply 30):
These are planned cancellations. A search of the weekly schedule on QF's site also shows QF7/8 not operating on Dec 24, Dec 30, and Feb 26. There probably is some maintenance scheduled for those days.

Thank you.

Quoting ZaphodB (Reply 32):
they HAVE to leave with 50 seats empty to make BNE (hence the 75% LF?)

I knew that was the case in the past but wasnt sure about now. The LF would indeed be higher then if I ran the numbers for say 314 seats and not 364!

Thank you all, this is interesting to read.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2012-11-27 06:21:06 and read 5143 times.

Woah, let me get this straight.

So it's being said that QF is carrying an average of 47.2 Tons (that's about 94,000 lbs) of Cargo Westbound out of DFW? In the beginning they were leaving bags behind due to being so weight restricted. Are we sure this is right? What source is there for these figures?

I'm surprised they are even able to take much Eastbound.. the 28.5 Tons seems like an awful lot there as well, even though they have a tailwind.

If they are indeed taking 47.2 tons westbound, plus passengers/bags and fuel... it has got to be at MTOW just about every night.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: gdg9
Posted 2012-11-27 08:01:00 and read 4810 times.

DFW Airport's website curiously does not include QF in their cargo traffic numbers.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: DFWHeavy
Posted 2012-11-27 08:15:55 and read 4798 times.

Looking at flight times of about 16 hours Westbound from DFW-BNE, I call complete BS on hauling 47 tons of cargo. Just not possible. It basically takes a full load of fuel, plus restricted passengers numbers to make it there. Not sure where these number came from, but they cannot be right. Even the 77L couldn't carry that much payload weight of cargo that far.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-11-27 08:23:30 and read 4773 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 33):

Are you sure about those figures?

http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications...national_airline_activity_FY12.pdf

If I'm reading the data from BITRE right, then there is 108 tons over the entire year, compared to over 4000 tons from LAX-BNE. That would average at less than one-third of a ton per day.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-11-27 08:30:22 and read 4752 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 43):
Looking at flight times of about 16 hours Westbound from DFW-BNE, I call complete BS on hauling 47 tons of cargo. Just not possible. It basically takes a full load of fuel, plus restricted passengers numbers to make it there.

I'm guessing that 47.2 ton figure is for the entire payload.

At MZFW (252t) the 747-400ER can fly 6250nm. Payload at MZFW is 67t, so a 47t payload would allow an additional 20t of fuel weight to be loaded, which would be worth about another two hours of endurance at cruise.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-27 16:34:44 and read 4370 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 41):
So it's being said that QF is carrying an average of 47.2 Tons (that's about 94,000 lbs) of Cargo Westbound out of DFW? In the beginning they were leaving bags behind due to being so weight restricted. Are we sure this is right? What source is there for these figures?

Sorry for the confusion. Those figures were totals for the month!

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-27 16:39:15 and read 4371 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 39):

SFO- SYD is not big enough for more than one daily flight except at peak periods like Christmas. The vast majority of UA's pax are connecting.

You are simply wrong----before Qantas quit the route they were filling a daily 747........the market is being held hostage by United's high prices and mediocre service.......LAX has many daily flights to SYD and SFO now only has one----people should not have to fly to LAX to get to SYD.....

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-27 16:44:21 and read 4355 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 47):
before Qantas quit the route they were filling a daily 747

It was 5x weekly.

Clearly it wasn't being "filled" at high enough yields to get Alan Joyce's attention.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-11-27 16:57:59 and read 4342 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 47):
he market is being held hostage by United's high prices and mediocre service..

You can argue over the service, but market pricing is certainly not held hostage by United.

SFO-Australia fares are sold by all parties in the market - QF, DL, NZ, VA, HA, etc.

All it takes is a single carrier to drop a fare by $1 and UA must match.

In general Australia-USA is quite a price sensitive market, and a very competitive one now.
So there are options beyond UA if you wish to avoid them.

[Edited 2012-11-27 17:52:28]

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-11-27 17:51:17 and read 4296 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 48):
Clearly it wasn't being "filled" at high enough yields to get Alan Joyce's attention.

To be fair to the SFO crowd, QF did say when it was cut that the route was profitable. They felt, however, that DFW better fit with their strategy, and therefore moved the resources out of SFO. I'm guessing it wasn't a gold mine, but it was making money

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-27 17:58:13 and read 4247 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 50):
To be fair to the SFO crowd, QF did say when it was cut that the route was profitable. They felt, however, that DFW better fit with their strategy, and therefore moved the resources out of SFO. I'm guessing it wasn't a gold mine, but it was making money

The way I remember it, they said it had been profitable but wasn't at present.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-11-28 01:23:10 and read 3978 times.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 41):

QF has configured all its 744ERs since flights started, and now have far lighter seats than what they used to fly (with an F cabin and more J seats). This will have impacted the performance of the aircraft positively.

Quoting thegeek,reply=51The way I remember it, they said it had been profitable but wasn't at present.:

They didn't specifically say either way. Most of us believe it was profitable to the end because QF didn't specifically say that it was a loss-making route, like they did with every single other cut in the same period. They went to great lengths to let us all know that the change was about strategy rather than losses.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: Bill142
Posted 2012-11-28 01:47:59 and read 3879 times.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):
QF has too many issues going on now.

Like what?

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-11-28 05:21:12 and read 3697 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 49):
All it takes is a single carrier to drop a fare by $1 and UA must match.

Which is the sad state of the airlines today and how service, quality and reliability is really not a factor, just price. So sad.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-28 12:28:03 and read 3483 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 47):
You are simply wrong----before Qantas quit the route they were filling a daily 747........the market is being held hostage by United's high prices and mediocre service.......LAX has many daily flights to SYD and SFO now only has one----people should not have to fly to LAX to get to SYD.....

They dont have to, UA flies it every day.

And comparing LAX-SYD to SFO-SYD is not a good comparrison.

SFO-SYD is 132 passengers a day. LAX-SYD is 483 passengers a day.

The two are no where near the same in terms of market size.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: legacyins
Posted 2012-11-28 12:30:40 and read 3467 times.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 53):

Read response 37/38

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-28 13:23:01 and read 3377 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 55):
And comparing LAX-SYD to SFO-SYD is not a good comparrison.

SFO-SYD is 132 passengers a day. LAX-SYD is 483 passengers a day.

The two are no where near the same in terms of market size.

I never said they were comparable---only that SFO has in the past and could easily today support more than flight per day----and where did you get those daily numbers----did you make them up? No one knows the real SFO-SYD market.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-28 14:20:18 and read 3295 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 57):
I never said they were comparable---only that SFO has in the past and could easily today support more than flight per day----and where did you get those daily numbers----did you make them up? No one knows the real SFO-SYD market.

Nope thats the actual reported market size. Sorry if its not the answer you were looking for, but thats the way it is.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-28 14:51:46 and read 3261 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 58):
Nope thats the actual reported market size

It is bogus---no one knows actual market size as market size is a function of price---the lower the price the greater the market size.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-28 15:06:17 and read 3225 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 55):
SFO-SYD is 132 passengers a day. LAX-SYD is 483 passengers a day.

Where did you get these stats? BITRE data is:
SYDSFO 17 699 in August 2012, making 285 per day/direction
SYDLAX 70 357 in August 2012, making 1134 per day/direction

Perhaps you are referring to F & J?

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-28 15:18:29 and read 3194 times.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 60):
Where did you get these stats? BITRE data is:
SYDSFO 17 699 in August 2012, making 285 per day/direction
SYDLAX 70 357 in August 2012, making 1134 per day/direction

Perhaps you are referring to F & J?

No, Im talking about O&D not total seat capacity. Those are the number of people starting in LA or San Francisco with a destination of Sydney each way.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: thegeek
Posted 2012-11-28 16:07:00 and read 3116 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 61):
No, Im talking about O&D not total seat capacity. Those are the number of people starting in LA or San Francisco with a destination of Sydney each way.

Ok, but you have to add in people travelling to places like CBR, HBA, ADL, MEL, CNS and a portion of those travelling to BNE or OOL.

At the other end, going from SEA via SFO is more attractive than via LAX.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: sfoa380
Posted 2012-11-28 16:36:04 and read 3062 times.

Market size can be subjective. If a new entrant started service, the market would grow.

Topic: RE: QF 7/8 DFW-SYD Cancel Issues?
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-11-28 16:49:20 and read 3030 times.

Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 63):
Market size can be subjective. If a new entrant started service, the market would grow.

Thank you-----at least one other poster understands that markets are all relative---to cite a number of so-called passengers in a particualr market is just.......well uninformed. What we are talking about here folks is Econ 101 and supply and demand curves!!


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