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Topic: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: downtown273
Posted 2012-11-28 14:08:13 and read 7461 times.

Ryanair has today announced it will cut it's Spanish traffic by 12%; biggest cuts will be in Madrid (35%) and Barcelona (23%). This will mean 4.5 million less pax which they claim will cause the loss of 4,500 jobs.

According to Ryanair, the Spanish government is doubling the airport taxes in MAD and BCN, and increasing them in the rest of the country.

The cuts will be:

MADRID (-35%):
• 4 less aircraft (from 14 to 10)
• 13 routes cancelled
• 22 routes with reduced frequency
• 272 flights less per week
• 1.9 million of pax lost (from 5.3m to 3.4m)
• 1,900 jobs lost

BARCELONA (-23%):
• 1 less aircraft (from 13 to 12)
• 4 routes cancelled
• 20 routes with reduced frequency
• 170 flights less per week
• 1.2 million of pax lost (from 5.4m to 4.2m)
• 1.200 jobs lost

SPAIN (total) (-12%):
• 648 flights less per week
• 4.5 million of pax lost (from 30m to 25.5m);
• 4.500 jobs lost


SUMMER CANCELLATIONS IN BARCELONA

1. Alicante
2. Hamburgo (Lubeck)
3. Munich
4. Trieste

SUMMER FREQ REDUCTIONS IN BARCELONA

1. Bilbao
2. Bruselas (Charleroi)
3. Budapest
4. Fuerteventura
5. Gran Canaria
6. Ibiza
7. Liverpool
8. Menorca
9. Málaga
10. Milán (Bérgamo)
11. Asturias
12. Palma
13. Oporto
14. Roma (Ciampino)
15. Santander
16. Santiago
17. Sevilla
18. Estocolmo (Skavsta)
19. Tenerife Sur
20. Venecia (Treviso)

SUMMER CANCELLATIONS IN MADRID

1. Almería
2. Ancona
3. Bari
4. Girona Barcelona
5. Eindhoven
6. Faro
7. Frankfurt (Hahn)
8. Génova
9. London Gatwick
10. Poznan
11. Estocolmo (Skavsta)
12. Turín
13. Verona

SUMMER FREQ REDUCTIONS IN MADRID

1. Alghero
2. Bilbao
3. Bolonia
4. Bruselas (Charleroi)
5. Budapest
6. Cagliari
7. Fuerteventura
8. Gran Canaria
9. Lanzarote
10. Marsella
11. Milán (Bérgamo)
12. Niederrhein
13. Oslo (Rygge)
14. Asturias
15. Palma
16. París
17. Pisa
18. Oporto
19. Roma
20. Santander
21. Santiago
22. Tenerife Sur


I think this is terrible news. Spain really needs this traffic and the jobs.

There will be a big market gap in Madrid. Is this an opportunity for easyJet to re-open the base in Madrid?

Edit: link: http://www.ryanair.com/es/novedades/...tasas-en-los-aeropuertos-espanoles It's on the news section of Ryanair.com/es but not on the UK/IE site.

[Edited 2012-11-28 14:12:56]

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: kl911
Posted 2012-11-28 14:12:22 and read 7443 times.

Now FR cancelled MAD - EIN and IB MAD - AMS I think only KLM is flying MAD-Netherlands right? In the past we had Easyjet and Transavia as well. Clearly a sign of the weak Spanish economy.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: downtown273
Posted 2012-11-28 14:24:54 and read 7348 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):
Now FR cancelled MAD - EIN and IB MAD - AMS

Isn't the cancellation of the Iberia service being replaced by Iberia Express?

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):
I think only KLM is flying MAD-Netherlands right?

Air Europa (UX) flies the route too, and it seems like they have 1 aircraft just for the twice daily AMS service:
07:35 → 10:05 MAD-AMS M T W T F S - Air Europa 1091
11:05 → 13:35 AMS-MAD M T W T F S S Air Europa 1098
14:35 → 17:05 MAD-AMS M T W T F S S Air Europa 1093
18:05 → 20:35 AMS-MAD M T W T F - S Air Europa 1094

[Edited 2012-11-28 14:29:06]

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2012-11-28 16:20:10 and read 7051 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):

KL, I2 and UX fly MAD-AMS. Transavia is starting MAD-EIN from S13. There is more in the world than FR.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: downtown273
Posted 2012-11-29 00:49:57 and read 6641 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 3):
There is more in the world than FR.

Can we see any other carriers (easyJet, Vueling, etc.) expanding or opening bases in Madrid?

Anyone know what the load factors of Ryanair were in MAD and BCN?

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2012-11-29 01:38:19 and read 6493 times.

Airport charges in Spain are renowned to have increased a lot in recent times; in fact, they doubled in the past 2.5 years. Combined with routes that may be underperforming and with low yields (revenue per passenger per mile)that may not be offset through higher load factors...

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 4):


Can we see any other carriers (easyJet, Vueling, etc.) expanding or opening bases in Madrid?

EZY closed its MAD base. See, for example, this article: http://www.anna.aero/2012/06/22/why-...s-easyjet-closing-its-madrid-base/

I can't see EZY adding much, if anything, following this news.

[Edited 2012-11-29 01:41:23]

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: MIAspotter
Posted 2012-11-29 01:44:25 and read 6461 times.

Most of those routes are already operated by other carriers, at least in BCN.


Summer Cancellations in Barcelona.

1. Alicante = VY
2. Hamburgo (Lubeck) = LH and GW direct to Hamburg (proper) as well as VY starting the route for the next summer season.
3. Munich = Direct to Munich (proper) with LH with many daily departures and also VY is starting the route.
4. Trieste[/quote] No other services except AZ but I dont think it´s such a lucrative or high yielding route.

Summer reductions in Barcelona.

1. Bilbao = VY to BIO and Helitt operates to Vitoria
2. Bruselas (Charleroi) = Direct service to BRU with VY and SN
3. Budapest = Wizzair
4. Fuerteventura = VY and maybe UX
5. Gran Canaria = VY and UX or IB via MAD
6. Ibiza = VY
7. Liverpool = None
8. Menorca = VY
9. Málaga = VY
10. Milán (Bérgamo) VY and U2 to MXP and AZ to LIN (awfully expensive though)
11. Asturias = VY
12. Palma = PMI? VY UX AB
13. Oporto = TP
14. Roma (Ciampino) VY AZ to FCO
15. Santander = VY
16. Santiago = VY
17. Sevilla = VY
18. Estocolmo (Skavsta) VY DY and SK to ARN
19. Tenerife Sur = VY goes to TCI (No idea which side is this lol)
20. Venecia (Treviso) = VY and AZ (AirOne) to VCE proper.
[/quote]

So, the routes are pretty much covered, yes we may lose the cheap fares but planes will be filled anyways and life will go on.

MIAspotter.

[Edited 2012-11-29 01:46:16]

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: ushermittwoch
Posted 2012-11-29 01:55:42 and read 6427 times.

I love how there is still this unfounded notion that a cut or the addition of one million pax will decrease or increase the amount of jobs by a thousand. This is just one model and it clearly does not always apply.
If it were the case, wouldn't you also have to deduct or add the same number of jobs at the destination airports...
Oh well. I guess FR scare tactics are still at work.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: mainMAN
Posted 2012-11-29 02:34:17 and read 6335 times.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 6):
7. Liverpool = None

Slight correction.....U2 to LPL, and LS and ZB to MAN.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: ba319-131
Posted 2012-11-29 02:37:12 and read 6325 times.

I just don't see where all these claimed job losses will come from, they seem on the high side IMO.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: vfw614
Posted 2012-11-29 02:42:09 and read 6298 times.

Quoting downtown273 (Thread starter):

BARCELONA (-23%):
• 1 less aircraft (from 13 to 12)
• 1.200 jobs lost

If this calculation was true, Ryanair would be responsible for something like half a million jobs in Europe...

Sure.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: MIAspotter
Posted 2012-11-29 02:56:00 and read 6254 times.

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 8):
Slight correction.....U2 to LPL, and LS and ZB to MAN.

Thanks, I did a quick check on U2´s website and didn´t see LPL, but now I see it.

MIAspotter.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: factsonly
Posted 2012-11-29 03:01:44 and read 6234 times.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):

Now FR cancelled MAD - EIN and IB MAD - AMS I think only KLM is flying MAD-Netherlands right? In the past we had Easyjet and Transavia as well.

In Summer 2013 Transavia will operate:

- RTM-MAD-RTM - 4x week B737
- EIN-MAD-EIN - 4x week B737

UX operates MAD-AMS-MAD 2x/day with B737-800 in cooperation with KL, so SKYTEAM offers the route 7x/day.

Also, it would not surprise me if Vueling would re-introduce MAD-AMS-MAD - with IB codeshare - in the absence of proper IB services.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: AIR MALTA
Posted 2012-11-29 03:05:17 and read 6214 times.

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 9):
I just don't see where all these claimed job losses will come from, they seem on the high side IMO.

There won't be any job losses... or if there are any they will be offset by Vueling which is expanding from Barcelona next summer... FR? Good riddance I have to say!

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2012-11-29 03:35:28 and read 6098 times.

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 7):
I love how there is still this unfounded notion that a cut or the addition of one million pax will decrease or increase the amount of jobs by a thousand.......Oh well. I guess FR scare tactics are still at work.
Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 9):
I just don't see where all these claimed job losses will come from, they seem on the high side IMO.
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 10):
If this calculation was true, Ryanair would be responsible for something like half a million jobs in Europe...
Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 13):
There won't be any job losses...

This is the standard FR line in public...that 1000 pax = 1 job in the region. They quote this ration in their press releases about new routes. this is the first time I have seen the same statistic used for closing routes.

So based on their 70M pax last year, FR indirectly employ 70,000 workers in the EU!!

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2012-11-29 13:31:05 and read 3418 times.

Quoting downtown273 (Thread starter):
I think this is terrible news. Spain really needs this traffic and the jobs.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, MAD and BCN are great cities to visit and visitors will still want to go there despite Ryanair's news. They still have many other ways to get there.

This is usual FR hype!

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-11-29 13:34:50 and read 3393 times.

Quoting downtown273 (Thread starter):
Ryanair has today announced it will cut it's Spanish traffic by 12%; biggest cuts will be in Madrid (35%) and Barcelona (23%). This will mean 4.5 million less pax which they claim will cause the loss of 4,500 jobs.

Considering the economic situation in Spain, aren't cuts like that to be expected? 12% doesn't sound like much in a market where the unemployment rate is 25% and increasing.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: peterinlisbon
Posted 2012-11-29 16:32:03 and read 3064 times.

This is actually very good news for Air Europe, Iberia and Vueling. Ryanair can say that jobs will be lost, but it isn't the only airline at Madrid and if there is the demand then others will take over these routes. They don't just create jobs - they've also put people out of work by helping to drive other airlines out of business, and they employ proportionally less staff than other locally-based airlines. So what if tax has increased in Spain? So have Ryanair's baggage fees and credit card charges! What adds more to the price of a ticket?

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: uALWN
Posted 2012-11-30 03:23:37 and read 2840 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
Considering the economic situation in Spain, aren't cuts like that to be expected? 12% doesn't sound like much in a market where the unemployment rate is 25% and increasing.

Well, last year BCN's passengers grew by almost 18% with respect to 2010. So far 2012 is also a record year, with growth about 3% even after the demise of JK. On the other hand, MAD"s passengers in 2011 were within 1% or those in 2010, while so far it looks like it may lose some ~7% of passengers in 2012. So a mixed bag, but nothing really dramatic.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: clydenairways
Posted 2012-11-30 10:28:50 and read 2620 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):

Considering the economic situation in Spain, aren't cuts like that to be expected? 12% doesn't sound like much in a market where the unemployment rate is 25% and increasing.

You might think that but we have been in an economic crisis here in Ireland too and traffic levels are holding up very well.
This is despite FR cutting back on services with a goal to try and force overall passenger numbers using DUB to plummet, so then they can be seen to be the savior of the tourism industry.
This is all part of an ongoing PR campaign FR engage in with the media, government and Airport authority to try and get cheaper airport charges.
Well that last attempt backfired with other carriers filling the void left by FR.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: LJ
Posted 2012-12-01 04:52:22 and read 2392 times.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 17):
This is actually very good news for Air Europe, Iberia and Vueling. Ryanair can say that jobs will be lost, but it isn't the only airline at Madrid and if there is the demand then others will take over these routes

I wonder what will happen to CRL/BRU-MAD as UX will start ops in this market as of Monday. It seems as if UX is still growing in Europe.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 19):

You might think that but we have been in an economic crisis here in Ireland too and traffic levels are holding up very well.

I don't think you can compare the situation in Ireland with the situation in Spain. The crisis in Spain is much worse and if you're working in the financial world you'll think that almost everyone is running out of Spain (which impacts business traffic). You only have to look at what happens in markets like MAD-AMS to see that the crisis has a very big impact (and there are more markets with similar problems).

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: r2rho
Posted 2012-12-01 06:51:22 and read 2263 times.

Not a huge deal. VY will happily take over the BCN routes that are viable. If IB sorts out its labor issues, IB Express will happily take over the MAD ones. UX may pick up a few too. The FR reductions and U2 leaving MAD are great news for those three airlines. As long as the routes are viable, and many are IMO, there are plenty of takers for them.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2012-12-01 07:11:24 and read 2227 times.

Quoting LJ (Reply 20):

In the case of Spain, the Euro crisis in Western Europe certainly does not help either. Routes and passengers to Eastern Europe, Latin America, Asia or the Middle East are growing instead. Ireland has the advantage that relies more on (esp.) US and ME traffic, so they are probably doing better on that side. Also, I am sure that many of those routes were "overserved" during the economic boom... AMS was served by IB, KL, U2, UX and until recently, KE (in addition to flights to EIN and RTM with FR and HV). And the growth of the likes of EK or QR will mean less passengers connecting with KL to Asia.

Btw many people is "running in" Spain now... good infrastructure, a reasonable institutional frame and lower labor costs than other parts of Europe (for instance, Ford Motor Co. just announced they are closing their Ghent plant ... but they are expanding their factory in Valencia). Not to talk about the coming cheap R.E... But that's another topic...

Quoting r2rho (Reply 21):

I wouldn't rely very much on UX. They have been doing weird decisions for a while. For instance, they just started MAD-BIO and MAD-VLC to connect traffic to their hub in MAD, subcontracted to a newly created regional company which is already known for their cancellations and delays (http://helitt.com/). And despite the bankruptcy of JK earlier this year and the cancellations of IB, U2 and FR, they have managed to take over very few routes.

Topic: RE: Ryanair To Cut 35% Of MAD, 23% Of BCN
Username: r2rho
Posted 2012-12-03 04:51:10 and read 1929 times.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
I wouldn't rely very much on UX. They have been doing weird decisions for a while. [...] And despite the bankruptcy of JK earlier this year and the cancellations of IB, U2 and FR, they have managed to take over very few routes.

Yes, I am confused about UX's strategy (or lack thereof). I would have expected them to benefit from JK's bankruptcy and U2's MAD closure, plus now FR cuts. But it seems only VY has reaped the benefits.


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