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Topic: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: Chiad
Posted 2012-11-30 06:10:18 and read 13752 times.

Another MAX and NEO battle comming up.
Bloomber reports:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...r-in-low-cost-carrier-pursuit.html

Monarch has 3 aging B757s in an otherwise 30 unites strong Airbus fleet, including 23 A320/A321s.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-11-30 06:19:41 and read 13662 times.

So that would likely favor Airbus unless Boeing can offer better availability.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: gilesdavies
Posted 2012-11-30 06:31:11 and read 13541 times.

Interesting news...

For the last few years the airlines has been expanding, by sourcing second hand aircraft from the likes BMI, Spirit, Thomas Cook and soon to receive some from Thomson too...

This has left the airline with quite a hodgepodge of aircraft while the same types, but with different cycle rates and ages... Some of these dating back to the late 1990's, so by 2021, these will be in need of being replaced.

Even though it is argued that there is no true replacement for the 757's, Monarch seems to be doing a great job in using the A321 as a like for like replacement for them. I have noticed that Monarch have started stretching the legs of the A321's and operating them as far away as Sharm-El-Shiekh on their new scheduled services, which had previously been reserved for the 757's and A300's when operating there as a charter route...

With Monarch dropping long haul ops, and flying no further than Egypt and the Canaries, the A320 NEO or 737 Nxt-Gen type will suit the airline excellently!

Going by Monarch's previous history as quite an innovative airline and keen to adopt new aircraft types, I wonder if they could be attracted to COMAC or Bombardier C-Series if offered the right deal?

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: GCT64
Posted 2012-11-30 06:34:09 and read 13505 times.

The article also indicates that they want a fleet of a single "type" (my guess is that they really mean "A320/1" or "B738/9") and want to complete their transition to become a full LCC to compete against EZY. This change in business model is also consistent with their previous cancellation of 787s. Surely this order is likely to go to A321NEOs in the main (with perhaps some A320NEOs for thinner routes)?

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: gilesdavies
Posted 2012-11-30 06:40:04 and read 13454 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
So that would likely favor Airbus unless Boeing can offer better availability.

No not at all...

The airline was due to be one of the launch customers of the 787, but they only dropped the order about a year ago, due to the airline deciding to change direction as a European low cost carrier. The airline now has no intention of replacing the A300's and A330's they have like for like.

The airline was a launch customer of the 757, being the first customer outside of the USA and has also operated 737-300's and 720's.

The airline's maintenance subsidiary "Monarch Engineering", has very close links to Boeing, offering maintenance to customers with all types of Boeings and will be one of the first to offer GoldCare maintenance for the 787 outside of the USA.

I believe they will go with whoever offers them the best deal.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: liverpoola380
Posted 2012-11-30 08:19:03 and read 12981 times.

Were the long haul ops not profitable for MON it will be a shame to see the A330's go in the c/s

When are they ending long haul ops completely?

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: JerseyFlyer
Posted 2012-11-30 08:31:04 and read 12903 times.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 4):
The airline was a launch customer of the 757, being the first customer outside of the USA

Did they not pick up some early frames ordered by BA but deemed surplus?

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: babybus
Posted 2012-11-30 09:09:41 and read 12695 times.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 2):
With Monarch dropping long haul ops

Wow,I didn't know that. I'm shocked. I'm so used to seeing Monarch flying long haul. Can tour operators get cheaper long haul flights with scheduled airlines? I doubt it.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 3):
This change in business model is also consistent with their previous cancellation of 787s.

Wow, I didn't know that either. I guess companies don't boast whe they cancel an aircraft order. I thought the whole idea of the 787 was to operate long thin routes profitably. Monarch bean counters must have calculated otherwise.

Whenever I've travelled with a tour operator I'm always relieved to see it's going to be a Monarch flight. I did think, however, that their A321 was little bit too cramped and uncomfortable for a 4hr 30min flight to Cyprus.

You can kill off routes with uncomfy aircraft.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: bluesky73
Posted 2012-11-30 09:54:49 and read 12485 times.

Good news and great to see a classic, respected British airline adapt and do well especially when many others have fallen in the last few years. I've always found Monarch to be a good airline to fly with.

As much as I will be sad to see a300, 330 and 757s go and with their mix of the various acquired a32x the next gen will be very much be needed in the near future.

My money is on NEO, even go as far as to say 30 A321neo and 15 A320neo.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2012-11-30 10:31:29 and read 12292 times.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 4):
The airline was a launch customer of the 757, being the first customer outside of the USA

Not quite true, launch customers were Eastern Airlines (21 aircraft in original order) and British Airways (19 aircraft in original order). Monarch, however, were the third airline to take delivery of type with LN 15, 18 and 19 (They also took LN 56, 125, 132, 170 new as 757-2T7s).

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 6):
Did they not pick up some early frames ordered by BA but deemed surplus?

That was Air Europe, who took LN 14 and 34 from BA's original order of 19 aircraft. Subsequently, all other 757s ordered by Air Europe were delivered with the Boeing customer code 36 (BA) rather than S3 (Air Europe).

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: Giancavia
Posted 2012-11-30 10:32:23 and read 12285 times.

I thought it was common knowledge they were close to a 737 order not that long ago. Don't let it surprise you when it happens.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: LGWflyer
Posted 2012-11-30 10:37:15 and read 12248 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 7):
I did think, however, that their A321 was little bit too cramped and uncomfortable for a 4hr 30min flight to Cyprus.

You can kill off routes with uncomfy aircraft.

I can say the same thing about their 757's, it was very cramped for the 4 hour trip to Turkey. Saying that though I guess you can expect that with charter airlines.

But... it was worth it soon as I got to go one one of the oldest 757's still flying (G-DAJB)!  

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: mon
Posted 2012-11-30 12:14:08 and read 11920 times.

Contrary to what some people have been saying, Monarch have not pulled out of long haul and have announced no plans to do so. It is true that a combination of recession and the UK's high APD charges have greatly affected all long haul leisure travel out of the UK.

http://www.monarch.co.uk/news/flight...quipping-of-monarch-airlines-fleet

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: Humberside
Posted 2012-11-30 12:34:37 and read 11667 times.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 2):
With Monarch dropping long haul ops, and flying no further than Egypt and the Canaries

Isn't the longest narrowbody route Banjul?

Quoting mon (Reply 12):
Contrary to what some people have been saying, Monarch have not pulled out of long haul and have announced no plans to do so.

Am I right in thinking the current plan is to keep the A330's but not replace them, nor expand the fleet? (i.e. keep the status quo)?

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: Giancavia
Posted 2012-11-30 13:10:24 and read 11077 times.

During 2013 2x a320 and 3x a321 will join the fleet.. at the end of 2013 summer schedule the fleet should have 9x a320, 21x a321, 3x a300, 3x 757 and 2 a330's. One of the A300's is then scrapped and the last 2 in 2014 along with the 757's. Open to correction but I am sure thats right.

[Edited 2012-11-30 13:13:24]

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-11-30 13:55:23 and read 10421 times.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
Isn't the longest narrowbody route Banjul?

I believe it is, yes. I've flown MAN-BJL 5 times on 757s with TCX and FCA.

Two points: I'm 95% certain that the (current generation) A321s couldn't make it to BJL non-stop, it is one of those routes (like TATL) where the 757 really comes into its own and is unreplaceable. Also, I'd suggest that the VAST majority of people going to BJL do so on packages, and that it wouldn't fit with MON's re-emphasis as an LCC.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: gilesdavies
Posted 2012-11-30 14:01:41 and read 10323 times.

My apologies...   

Saying Monarch is dropping Long Haul ops, is badly worded on my part.

There is currently no plans to replace the A330-200's which along with the A300's, were due to be replaced with 787's. The airline does however seem to be focusing future expansion on short haul routes exclusively, or routes with the capability of single aisle aircraft.

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...onarch-cancels-its-787-orders-0908

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: dergay
Posted 2012-11-30 14:15:58 and read 10109 times.

Whatever happens, happens! However, I hope to see Monarch around for a long time yet, having flown widely with them on charters as well as scheduled flights throughout Europe and ME / North Africa. I have a lingering memory of a Monarch Captain announcing after landing 20 minuted early in DUB after a flight from FAO that: "We are delighted to have shortened your journey and do not play loud garish music to self-congratulate on having done our job!"

My money is on the 320 / 321, but I'll miss the 757 - she's some machine!

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: asctty
Posted 2012-12-01 01:07:08 and read 6375 times.

As long as they continue to develop the services on their new routes I will look forward to seeing improvements. The two wet lease 735s they used from EMA during the summer were awful. These have now been replaced I understand.
With regard to the space onboard, has anyone got any comments about how Jet2 have replaced the seats with the thin-back, non-reclining type? I have that legroom is better and that the are just as comfortable on short haul flights on both the 737 and 757.
Anyway, I wish Monarch well as long as they improve the timetable from EMA - ALC and consider MJV next year.
I work out there!

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: Daysleeper
Posted 2012-12-01 03:27:29 and read 5281 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 15):
Two points: I'm 95% certain that the (current generation) A321s couldn't make it to BJL non-stop, it is one of those routes (like TATL) where the 757 really comes into its own and is unreplaceable

There is almost certainly going to be a TATL capable version of the A321 NEO - Contrary to popular Anet belief the 757 is not irreplaceable.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: spud757
Posted 2012-12-01 03:33:13 and read 5231 times.

Will miss the MON 757. looked great in their colours, even if the leg room was the tightest of the charters compared to TOM. Will be a sad day as these birds slowly disappear from UK charter ops; at least LS and TOM seem to be planning to keep them working for a good few years now they've added winglets.

Quoting asctty (Reply 18):

The LS seats look so thin at first look but actually comfy for short haul ops in terms of the padding and leg room they afford.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: holidaycharter
Posted 2012-12-01 04:57:04 and read 4621 times.

Yes it will be sad to see the 757 retired fom there fleet I have many a fond memory's of flying on them.

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: LGWflyer
Posted 2012-12-01 06:27:13 and read 3985 times.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 20):
Will miss the MON 757. looked great in their colours, even if the leg room was the tightest of the charters compared to TOM. Will be a sad day as these birds slowly disappear from UK charter ops; at least LS and TOM seem to be planning to keep them working for a good few years now they've added winglets.

Don't forget TCX, they still got 15 752's flying and the 2 753's with the winglets (which look great!). I don't think they will be getting rid of them all in the near future.


Fantastic looking birds, especially the 300 with winglets!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matteo Arrotta
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Terry Wade



EDIT- Correcting spelling mistake.

[Edited 2012-12-01 06:31:51]

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: JRadier
Posted 2012-12-01 12:00:29 and read 3643 times.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 15):
Two points: I'm 95% certain that the (current generation) A321s couldn't make it to BJL non-stop, it is one of those routes (like TATL) where the 757 really comes into its own and is unreplaceable.

Maybe not the A320, but the 738 should certainly be able to make it from LGW!

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: gilesdavies
Posted 2012-12-01 17:47:33 and read 3273 times.

I don't get some peoples hang up, with going on about how the airline will not have a direct replacement for the 757, and go on about a single route LGW/MAN to BJL, which is probably the only route in the whole of Monarch's network of routes flown my single aisle aircraft, the A321 cannot serve non-stop?!

This route is a charter flight, and the airline over the coming years is going to serve fewer and fewer charter destinations, as they focus on scheduled services in Europe and Northern Africa.

The route operates once a week, during the winter season and probably accounts for about 0.1% of the airlines ops and while Im sure it is profitable for the airline to fly the route, its not justifiable to have an exclusive aircraft that can operate this route.

When the 757's in 2014 are retired, the airline will simply have to tell tour operators that they will have to find a new carrier or for it to be operated with a techincal stop, if they require the capacity of 200+ seats.

The A320 should be able to operate this route, BMI use to fly to Freetown and this is slight further than Banjul! Also I think Strategic Air use to operate their A320's from LGW-BJL?!

Stop living in the past and get over the fact the 757 is being retired. Airlines will adapt and adjust accordingly!

Topic: RE: Monarch Plans 45-Jet Order
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-02 17:26:39 and read 2730 times.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 24):
Stop living in the past and get over the fact the 757 is being retired. Airlines will adapt and adjust accordingly!

What really replaces the 752? Sad, I know it is hard to see them go. I remember when they were first being delivered to EA. We would go down to the gates just to watch them come and go. EA let me on to see the cockpit right after they started getting them. I love that bird!

I vote for the 737 family .. and I hope that is what they go with!


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