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Topic: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: TC957
Posted 2012-11-29 08:34:26 and read 3857 times.

Hope they do well with this venture.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...0&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: VV701
Posted 2012-11-29 08:52:00 and read 3825 times.

According to the AA Route Planner it takes 21 minutes to drive from central Brighton to Shoreham Airport. It also says it takes 37 minutes to drive to Gatwick Airport North Terminal , 35 minutes to the South Terminal.

If LGW cannot support a service to PAR, can Shoreham (with its much more limited catchment area) succeed?

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: LX138
Posted 2012-11-29 10:02:34 and read 3698 times.

Interesting, I can't see it lasting 12 months though. LGW offers far better options and isn't much further.

I've never heard of them before, good chance to get on a LET-410 though.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: EIDL
Posted 2012-11-29 10:04:21 and read 3694 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):
If LGW cannot support a service to PAR, can Shoreham (with its much more limited catchment area) succeed?

LGWs fees for a TurboLET would be out of proportion with ESHs so that would have some impact on it.

I'm surprised that LGW hasn't got service to Paris though.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: gabrielchew
Posted 2012-11-29 10:25:50 and read 3647 times.

It's an interesting idea, but surely most businesses that need to get from the Sussex area to Paris will just take the Eurostar? Their schedule is pretty robust compared to what these guys will be offering.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: TC957
Posted 2012-11-29 10:44:31 and read 3596 times.

Skysouth last tried this route 6 years ago with a Piper Chieftain.
I hope they have set aside a good marketing budget, both here in Sussex and also in the Paris area.
It should work with business travellers with Shoreham's 15 min minimum check in and hassle free parking. Not everyone down here wants to drive over to Ashford, then at least a 30 min check-in. Plus much higher parking fees.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: btblue
Posted 2012-11-29 22:28:59 and read 3186 times.

There are quite a few language schools in the area that service the French market. Possibly draw some feed there with the selling point of it being point to point but then that is also seasonal.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: blooBirdie
Posted 2012-11-29 23:42:34 and read 3136 times.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
Skysouth last tried this route 6 years ago with a Piper Chieftain.
I hope they have set aside a good marketing budget, both here in Sussex and also in the Paris area.
It should work with business travellers with Shoreham's 15 min minimum check in and hassle free parking.

The downside is the time it can take to get from POX (seriously!) to downtown Paris. I flew SkySouth in October 2007. It was a great flight but it took twice as long by minibus to get to the Place de l'Etoile from the airport as it did from ESH - POX.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: okapi
Posted 2012-11-30 00:33:11 and read 3085 times.

Quoting LX138 (Reply 2):

Yep, I should give it a try. Let's see the what the fares will be like.

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 4):

My friends in Brighton hate having to go to Ashford to pick up the Eurostar to get to Paris. Their best other option is by train up to London and then take one of the many direct trains to Paris. Tickets to London purchased in advance offer sometimes great savings. I prefer the Gatwick option but there are no more flights to Paris.
I wonder how Pontoise can be a valid alternative to Paris. Maybe Beauvais would have been wiser. However, given the number of businesses in the northern suburbs of the French capital, this line could become very attractive to those flying for work purposes. In this latter case, going to Roissy or worse, Orly really is a waste of time.
On a side note, I expect many passengers to be at least middle aged. I just wonder how they'll deal with the "no toilets on board" situation...
This good do a very good trip report for you though...  

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2012-11-30 01:31:30 and read 3028 times.

Brighton City Airways is to launch a 12x weekly (1x daily Sat and Sun) service between Shoreham and Paris/Pontose utilising a 19-seat Let-410. With a 1-hour block, one-way fares will start from £69 all-in. For this you also get access to its lounge, inclusive card fees, and unlimited name changes. They are also offering a £20 deposit with the remainder payable 2 weeks before departure. Check-in will be 15 minutes before departure.

Source: www.brightoncityairways.co.uk

---

It's good to see something different. I'll follow how it does.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: raffik
Posted 2012-11-30 01:59:07 and read 2971 times.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):
minutes to drive from central Brighton to Shoreham Airport. It also says it takes 37 minutes to drive to Gatwick Airport North Terminal

The M23 has had huge road works since this summer with a 40mph restriction which has really slowed down the time it takes to get to the airport.

Shoreham is very easy to get to- either along the A259 coast road or the parallel A27.

The fares compete quite well against the Eurostar, which as someone else pointed out is very hard to connect to from Brighton unless you go to London and take a direct service from there.

I would have thought that there would be a big enough market in the South Sussex area to warrant a service to Paris but it will come down to how the airline markets this. From what I've read, the owner has been promising services since 2009 so whether or not it will materialise is another matter!

Has any airline ever served Shoreham?

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: GCT64
Posted 2012-11-30 02:00:06 and read 2969 times.

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 4):
surely most businesses that need to get from the Sussex area to Paris will just take the Eurostar?

Or just drive? (via the tunnel). I live near LHR and even I drive if I am visiting businesses around Paris that aren't easily accessible on the RER/Metro.

As far as I can recall, none of the Lydd/Shoreham to France operations have lasted very long in recent years.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: TC957
Posted 2012-11-30 02:29:46 and read 2926 times.

I once flew ESH - JER on a Spacegrand Twin Otter back in the eighties a couple of times on business. I think they were called Spacegrand Aviation, a Blackpool based company as I recall.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: edina
Posted 2012-11-30 02:41:20 and read 2903 times.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 12):

Spacegrand originally operated from BLK & were instrumental in opening up BHD to commercial traffic. They bought the original (& ailing) Jersey European Airways, headquartering the combined operation at the one point the 2 combined network met i.e. EXT. They have of course morphed over the years to become FlyBe.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: raffik
Posted 2012-11-30 02:56:58 and read 2883 times.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 11):
Or just drive? (via the tunnel). I live near LHR and even I drive if I am visiting businesses around Paris that aren't easily accessible on the RER/Metro.

I've done that a few times too but if your last port of call is the centre of Paris, then driving and more importantly parking is terrible.

That also reminds me- 6 miles East of Brighton is Newhaven which has two daily sailings to Dieppe- from there you can go overland. Apparently it is the fastest London-Paris (ferry) route for cars. I've used it a few times when I've taken my motorhome to the Continent and it is a good service but for those who cannot drive etc, the air route might be useful.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-11-30 04:18:39 and read 2798 times.

Quoting raffik (Reply 10):
The fares compete quite well against the Eurostar, which as someone else pointed out is very hard to connect to from Brighton unless you go to London and take a direct service from there.

Well, it's just as easy to get a direct train to London as it is to drive to Shoreham, perhaps taking 30 minutes longer on the train.

Personally, I'd take the train and end up in the centre of Paris. Not sure this will prove profitable.

I'm sure somebody did their homework, but history shows that this probably won't last very long before they start losing money ... as negative as that sounds.

Quoting raffik (Reply 10):
Has any airline ever served Shoreham?

Aurigny, with Islanders, Trislanders. Jersey European with Twin Otters .....


Jimbo

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: VV701
Posted 2012-11-30 05:19:24 and read 2719 times.

Quoting raffik (Reply 10):
The M23 has had huge road works since this summer with a 40mph restriction which has really slowed down the time it takes to get to the airport.

Road works would be a temporary inconvenience.

Nevertheless I drive fairly often down the length of the M23/A23 from the M25 to the A27 immediately north of Brighton. Throughout 2012 I cannot recall being delayed by or even seeing any road works after passing through those (now completed) roadworks at the new Cobham service area on the southwest sector of the M25 well short of the M23 junction. This is confirmned by other sources:

http://www.frixo.com/m23-south.asp

Note that the above link does say:

"On the M23 southbound between junctions J7 and J8, minor delays can be expected at peak times due to roadworks closing one lane, between 10 pm and 5 am, from 29 November 2012 to 1 December 2012."

But hav e no fear. There is no such thing as "peak times" between "10 pm and 5 am". There has been very little traffic on the M23 when I have occasionally used it in that time frame.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: sandyb123
Posted 2012-11-30 05:52:47 and read 2688 times.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 9):
Brighton City Airways is to launch a 12x weekly (1x daily Sat and Sun) service between Shoreham and Paris/Pontose utilising a 19-seat Let-410. With a 1-hour block, one-way fares will start from £69 all-in. For this you also get access to its lounge, inclusive card fees, and unlimited name changes. They are also offering a £20 deposit with the remainder payable 2 weeks before departure. Check-in will be 15 minutes before departure.

Source: www.brightoncityairways.co.uk

---

It's good to see something different. I'll follow how it does.

So I can book a flight, pay a deposit of £20 and not have to commit until I'm two weeks out from the flight? I just can not see how that works commercially!?

Also, I would take the image of that aircraft off the site. I know we're close to the subject on this forum, but I think that highlighting the aircraft type is a mistake. LET is a manufacturer that has no public awareness and looks like it was built in the soviet east in 1972.

A 170 knot cruise speed is painful for anything other than the most specialist of missions.

I can't see this working.

Sandyb123

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: TC957
Posted 2012-11-30 06:18:42 and read 2639 times.

There used to be a Le Touquet service from ESH as well a few summers ago, think that was Skysouth as well.
Perhaps someone like Blue Islands could make a go of serving GCI/JER from ESH, or is 1036 mtrs not a long enough runway for a J31...

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: GCT64
Posted 2012-11-30 06:22:52 and read 2634 times.

Also worth noting that it is a virtual airline (in the same style as Manx2 / Citywing) as "All flights are operated by Van Air Europe A.S."
I don't what the commercial arrangements are between Brighton City and Van Air but I am sure this allows new/experimental routes to be tested with hugely lower up-front costs than creating a full AOC operation from scratch.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-11-30 06:35:52 and read 2620 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 15):
Aurigny, with Islanders, Trislanders. Jersey European with Twin Otters .....

....although I think I'm going back before some of you guys were born  

That had to be 20-30 years ago .. and before they even had a hard runway...lol


Jimbo

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: babybus
Posted 2012-11-30 09:32:03 and read 2508 times.

I'm not sure this is the right time to be starting up a niche route like this. I'm also a bit concerned that they expect to run a shuttle bus to a local station for such a small fee. If that bus becomes unrelaible due to lack of use that may affect the attractiveness of the route.

I'm not sure Brighton can support a route like this. Many years ago it used to have a catamaran route from the new marina to Dieppe. That didn't last long, which is a shame.

The introductory fare looks good but it is only a start up fare. We can expect the cost to go up considerably and all those potential local students will be back to their advanced ticket purchases on Eurostar.

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: TC957
Posted 2012-11-30 12:39:55 and read 2415 times.

I remember the Brighton Marina - Dieppe service, it was a Boeing jetfoil, I went to the Paris Air shiw that way, think it was 1977 or so. At the time the service was hailed as the future of cross-channel services, but of course come winter and the loads dropped and the wind picked up.....

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: Pe@rson
Posted 2012-12-01 01:39:35 and read 2247 times.

Anyone yet know what its IATA/ICAO codes will be?

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: Tupolevtu154
Posted 2012-12-01 04:31:36 and read 2128 times.

Quoting raffik (Reply 10):

Has any airline ever served Shoreham?
Quoting TC957 (Reply 18):
Perhaps someone like Blue Islands could make a go of serving GCI/JER from ESH, or is 1036 mtrs not a long enough runway for a J31...

Rockhopper (later renamed Blue Islands) used to fly to Alderney with BN2's on an almost daily basis a few years ago.

Quoting babybus (Reply 21):
I'm also a bit concerned that they expect to run a shuttle bus to a local station for such a small fee.

£3.50 was quoted on their website.

I booked a return ticket on their inaugural service a few minutes after they opened for bookings. I paid £138 all in, which from what I've heard isn't competitive with eurostar.

As for the aircraft, Manx2 made their routes work with a bunch of aircraft the public would never have heard of (Metro, Dornier 228, Let 410) and they appear to be doing pretty well.

I hope it works, there's alot that's attractive about what they offer. As for me, I'm looking forward to my day return!

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: bestwestern
Posted 2012-12-01 21:10:04 and read 1969 times.

Debonair (remember them?) used to fly to Pontoise from Luton on their purple 146s

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: debonair
Posted 2012-12-02 01:45:44 and read 1898 times.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 25):
Debonair (remember them?)

OFF COURSE!   

We had great fun at POX, a great one-man-airport! The sole ground staff did first the stairs and ground equipment, followed by baggage handling and finally cleaning the aircraft. Very efficient!

Best part was always the take-off: breaks set, throttles to the limit and off we go...

Topic: RE: Brighton City Airways Launch Shoreham - Pontoise.
Username: ZaphodB
Posted 2012-12-02 12:41:39 and read 1728 times.

Quoting babybus (Reply 21):
I'm not sure this is the right time to be starting up a niche route like this. I'm also a bit concerned that they expect to run a shuttle bus to a local station for such a small fee. If that bus becomes unrelaible due to lack of use that may affect the attractiveness of the route.

There's a taxi stand right outside Shoreham station so I can't see the point of the minibus at that end. I'm not familiar with POX but without the shuttle to the RER I probably wouldn't go for it. If I was still in Storrington I'd definitely drive down to Shoreham and give this a go and I wish them all the best in this challenging business environment.

As for the Newhaven ferry, its a nice way to get to upper Normandy or to hit the A71/A20/A10 heading south with a car but not necessarily a good way to get to Paris on foot - last time I tried it there were no longer any direct trains and you had to change on to an already packed train at Rouen.


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