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Topic: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: HALFA
Posted 2012-11-30 22:19:39 and read 9922 times.

Hawaiian Airlines announced today that they will add 3 weekly flights from HNL to SYD for the busy April-May travel period in 2013. The new flights will operate on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays from HNL and the return flights from SYD will operate on Thursdays, Saturdays, and Mondays. The new flights will be operated with the A330-200 Aircraft. These new flights are in addition to HA's regularly scheduled daily flights to SYD.
More here:

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1763413&highlight=


On a related note, Hawaiian inaugurated service this week from HNL to BNE. These flights operate 3 times weekly using the 767-300.

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1762280&highlight=

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1763412&highlight=

Aloha,
HALFA

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-30 23:20:59 and read 9729 times.

Damn HA is on one hell of a roll here! Good to see someone expanding well. I hope this expansion has high dividends for HA.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: QANTAS747-438
Posted 2012-12-01 00:31:25 and read 9564 times.

Where does HA keep finding airplanes to fly these routes?! I get that they are getting a new A330, but it seems like one hiccup on one plane and the domino effect could cripple things.

[Edited 2012-12-01 00:32:40]

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: HALFA
Posted 2012-12-01 01:04:57 and read 9476 times.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 2):
Where does HA keep finding airplanes to fly these routes?

HA is taking delivery of 5 new A330's in 2013. This was quoted in the press release: “Demand for our service on the Sydney route is especially strong during this period, so we are taking advantage of the delivery of additional A330 aircraft to increase our capacity when and where it’s needed most,” said Peter Ingram, Hawaiian’s executive vice president and chief commercial officer.
New service to AKL will commence in March, 2013 and I would expect more routes to be announced soon.

Aloha,
HALFA

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2012-12-01 04:21:09 and read 9151 times.

Sounds like HA is quite successful Down Under, I see MEL in the cards soon if they're filling SYD 10x a week.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: frmrcapcadet
Posted 2012-12-01 10:05:57 and read 7789 times.

Looking at a globe it seems as though HA could offer great one stop service Australia/New Zealand and area to most of the US. What kind of CASM can they offer versus nonstop? A bonus, as with Iceland, could be stopover rights.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: n471wn
Posted 2012-12-01 10:30:13 and read 7611 times.

And Qantas just watches others take their business away---simply appalling

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: cslusarc
Posted 2012-12-01 10:42:12 and read 7517 times.

I wonder if HA's success is tied to the fact that its premium cabin is configured as US domestic first class, roughly comparable to premium economy (W) class on most intercontinental carriers.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: petrhsr
Posted 2012-12-01 12:51:22 and read 6852 times.

Qantas has essentially conceded HNL to Jetstar (good ol' OneStar strikes again!), which sends an A330 five times a week. QF hauls an ancient 763 across from SYD and return three days a week. The business cabin has the old "Dreamtime" seats, which left the rest of the international fleet many years ago. Apparently it's a low-yield route and doesn't sell too well in biz, so most of the pax up-front are on points upgrades. This has left QF feeling disinclined to run a 330 with Skybeds.

So good on HA. They have clearly pitched their product to compete with JetStar, and seem to be doing quite well. If only they could sort-out their timetable to offer better connections, I'd fly them all the way through from SYD to JFK.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: HALFA
Posted 2012-12-01 13:03:02 and read 6781 times.

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 7):
I wonder if HA's success is tied to the fact that its premium cabin is configured as US domestic first class, roughly comparable to premium economy (W) class on most intercontinental carriers.

I would say that HA's success on the SYD route could be attributed to several things including the following:
More Australians can afford Hawaiian vacations now as their dollar is worth more than ours, and Australians are really taking advantage of it. They are travelling to Hawaii in record numbers now.
HA offers complimentary meals, beer and wine in all cabins as well as a generous checked baggage allowance (2 pieces @23kg per person) and HA's main competitor on the route (Jetstar) does not.
HA offers full mileage credit in all cabins on all fares for members of HA's frequent flyer program, Hawaiian Miles. Jetstar does not.
HA offers same carrier connections to 11 cities on the US Mainland including LAS and JFK, destinations which have been traditionally popular with Australians. Again, Jetstar does not.
Qantas also flies between SYD and HNL but only flies the route 3 times per week.

Aloha,
HALFA

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-12-01 15:23:12 and read 6055 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 6):
And Qantas just watches others take their business away---simply appalling

Are you comparing QF in Australia to HA in Hawaii or QF vs. JQ vs. HA on the Hawaii-Australia corridor?

If its the former, they are completely different scenarios. HA is investing wisely in expanding its long-haul network outside of the mainland US given the explosion of the US-Hawaii market over recent years on LCCs and narrow-body planes.

If it's the latter, then i still struggle to see what's the point. It's a high-volume, low-yield market, better suited for JQ, especially since its within A330 range, rather than be flown on QF metal.

Quoting petrhsr (Reply 8):
Apparently it's a low-yield route and doesn't sell too well in biz, so most of the pax up-front are on points upgrades. This has left QF feeling disinclined to run a 330 with Skybeds.

It's the same with legacy US carriers. Flights to Hawaii can parallel, if not exceed, international long-haul flights in duration, yet the product is severely different in all cabins. It makes total sense to me.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: eaglefarm4
Posted 2012-12-01 15:57:30 and read 5863 times.

HA also started BNE last week and have already added 18 supplementary flights from March to May.

article below

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...aiian/story-e6frg95x-1226526904914

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-12-01 18:54:45 and read 5174 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):
Sounds like HA is quite successful Down Under, I see MEL in the cards soon if they're filling SYD 10x a week.

I'd love to say I agree but with JQ commencing MEL-HNL non-stop again in Dec, I don't see the market for 2 carriers on the route.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2012-12-01 20:14:04 and read 4819 times.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 12):
I'd love to say I agree but with JQ commencing MEL-HNL non-stop again in Dec, I don't see the market for 2 carriers on the route.

Just because JQ is first doesn't mean they will last.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: HAL
Posted 2012-12-01 20:56:58 and read 4678 times.

Woo Hoo! This means our layovers may be a bit longer than the current ones. It would be nice to have a full day in SYD to see the sights.  

HAL

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: rjm717
Posted 2012-12-01 21:29:34 and read 4533 times.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 9):
as well as a generous checked baggage allowance (2 pieces @23kg per person) and HA's main competitor on the route (Jetstar) does not.

Things are always fluid in this business, but for now the HA baggage allowance is still 2x32Kg per person ex Australia - even more of an advantage over the others.

R

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-12-02 02:22:44 and read 4140 times.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 6):
And Qantas just watches others take their business away---simply appalling
Quoting petrhsr (Reply 8):
Qantas has essentially conceded HNL to Jetstar (good ol' OneStar strikes again!), which sends an A330 five times a week. QF hauls an ancient 763 across from SYD and return three days a week. The business cabin has the old "Dreamtime" seats, which left the rest of the international fleet many years ago. Apparently it's a low-yield route and doesn't sell too well in biz, so most of the pax up-front are on points upgrades. This has left QF feeling disinclined to run a 330 with Skybeds.

The first comment is correct.

The second comment partially reflects the appalling thinking within Qantas.

Qantas struggles with its Premium cabin SYD-HNL for the following reasons:

1. It prices it at near LAX levels, but with a 763 recliner seat, and competes against its own Jetstar subsidiary which offers similar seats and identical Qantas frequent flyer miles and status accrual for $2700 return instead of $6300 on Qantas.

2. Qantas' Department of Union-Bashing Dogma decided that Australians should have an LCC staffed by cheap Asian cabin crew on their SYD-HNL flights, to be operated by Jetstar.

Jetstar cannibalises Qantas (see above) but is outclassed by the full legacy product on Hawaiian, which is why in 18 months Hawaiian will have climbed from 3 x 763 services per week to Australia to 3x 763 PLUS 10 x A330. While Jetstar hasn't increased at all ex-SYD, and if Jetstar makes Melbourne work we will presumably see Hawaiian drive them out of that market.

By the way, try getting a points redemption in Business Class on Qantas SYD-HNL. The above poster is dreaming. I've found one in two years of looking.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: TruemanQLD
Posted 2012-12-02 04:28:13 and read 4027 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):

Honestly I dont know why I bother replying to you Koruman.

Maybe the reason they charge at that is a basic economic principle of Supply and Demand. QF can keep the fares high because the seats are being filled at that price (why you cant get redemption seats). Extra frequencies only increases supply (and demand... a little) so prices will drop.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-12-02 08:03:10 and read 3882 times.

Yes Trueman, but 80% of the Business Class seats that the Qantas group sells to HNL each week sell for less than $3000 return, because they are on Jetstar, but with Business Class QF frequent flyer accrual.

Meanwhile Hawaiian offers a similar Business Class but with superior IFE, catering and without a need to buy a "bundle" to earn miles and status. And whereas QF charges $6300 return, and Jetstar $2700 return, Hawaiian generally pitches around $4200 return. So their yields and volumes both beat Qantas.

It's pretty special how Qantas has cannibalised itself, and driven its own yields below the competitor!

Meanwhile, across the Tasman Air NZ has responded to identical Hawaiian entry and competition by:

1) making Business a flat-bed product, at A$4000 return.
2) adding Premium Economy, similar to HA/JQ/QF business class, but at $2400 return.
3) making economy an unbundled product, at a lower fare.

All of which seems more lucid than Qantas demanding double Jetstar's fare levels, on an aircraft with an obsolete product.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2012-12-02 08:24:45 and read 3849 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 18):
All of which seems more lucid than Qantas demanding double Jetstar's fare levels, on an aircraft with an obsolete product.

  

And it seems a perfect place to send 747-400s a few times a week that are excess capacity? Business (even if its not the new sky bed but the old lie flat at an angle, ) Premium economy - price at HA's business level and take that business...and lots and lots of economy taking advantage of the big birds low CASM. it doesn't need to be daily.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2012-12-02 08:25:29 and read 3849 times.

that being said they could also just improve the jetstar offering.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-12-02 08:46:03 and read 3808 times.

Lots of stuff happening on this route at the moment. It looks like QF will be out of international 767s by the end of March, making for pretty coincidental timing overall, especially with JQ also commencing nonstop MEL-HNL in a couple of weeks.

It's hard to know what to expect. For all that I think the route must have some financial value to QF given they've kept it while cutting so many others, they don't seem to be very well placed to compete. They either have to go up to an A332 with lots more J capacity, up to an A333 with lots more Y capacity or down to a domestic 767 with a product that is beaten by the 25% of JQ's fleet with the new seats/AVOD.

It should also be pointed out that QF/JQ go 14 weekly to HNL through April (11 from SYD, 3 from MEL) so will still have more flights and capacity overall.

Quoting koruman (Reply 16):

1. The market prices the services, not QF. While the product isn't particularly good by QF standards, it's still the best in this market and will still attract the high end Australian based traffic which is headed to any one of the numerous extremely high end resorts/hotels that Hawaii boasts.

Obviously the pricing isn't an issue though, because the route must be financially positive otherwise it would have been passed over to JQ years ago. If the plane is full of passengers paying these very high fares then it'll be very profitable, if it's full of passengers burning points then it must be an efficient way for QF to reduce points liabilities. QF has literally no other reason to keep this route if it's not making money for them in some way (unlike JFK perhaps, which could be seen as part of a competitive strategy for retaining corporate contracts that also spend elsewhere in the network).

2. JQ's crews on SYD-HNL are Australian based, so are covered by Australian contracts and labour laws. I imagine that it's actually HA who pays their crews the least on this route.

HA hasn't driven anyone out of the market, and certainly won't any time soon. QF/JQ have actually grown a little over the past 2 years, and will add about 20% to their capacity in a couple of weeks with MEL-HNL. HA has expanded on the back of a strong AUD which has thrown this market wide open -- if our dollar halved in value tomorrow, so too would their services. QF/JQ will be far better protected financially than HA if/when the AUD drops again, and won't be anywhere near as hardly hit.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-12-02 17:28:14 and read 3513 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
. The market prices the services, not QF. While the product isn't particularly good by QF standards, it's still the best in this market and will still attract the high end Australian based traffic which is headed to any one of the numerous extremely high end resorts/hotels that Hawaii boasts.

I buy a lot of Brisbane to Honolulu Business Class tickets each year - I already have 8 bookings for this year. My work has regular meetings there, and I have a holiday home on Maui.

In 2011 I had to cut short a trip on Air NZ and bought a Jetstar Business Class, and on one other trip that year flew Qantas Business Class, which was substantially inferior to the Jetstar offering. The only superior things on Qantas were better recline - although far from lie-flat - and the $2 pyjamas. But this at least earned me elite status on Qantas.

I'm now finding that during times of the year when Air NZ operates the 767, I am buying tickets on Hawaiian, and shortly they will be for non-stop services from Brisbane. And when Air NZ uses the 777, it clearly has the best (lie-flat bed) product on the market and I buy that.

There probably aren't many customers out there who buy more than 8 Business Class tickets per year from Australia to Hawaii, and this has left me with elite status with Qantas and Virgin and Air NZ and Hawaiian Airlines currently! And Qantas' self-cannibalisation by Jetstar and price-gouging for a lousy product on Qantas itself has ensured that Hawaiian and Air New Zealand get my business.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: Ditzyboy
Posted 2012-12-03 00:05:13 and read 3253 times.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
It looks like QF will be out of international 767s by the end of March,

The four internationally configured 767s are being refreshed with the QStreaming product, however the sub-fleet will still exist. OGR, internationally-configured, is online with the refreshed product. QStreaming is only activated on domestic flights at this stage.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: IndianicWorld
Posted 2012-12-03 00:30:09 and read 3216 times.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 13):
Just because JQ is first doesn't mean they will last.

Time will tell how JQ go on the MEL-HNL sector this time around. A different environment than last time yes, but it will be interesting to watch.

HA have enough on their plate with SYD, BNE and AKL at this stage.

[Edited 2012-12-03 00:35:00]

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: BNE
Posted 2012-12-03 02:48:46 and read 3200 times.

The reason the route Australia to HNL is going so well is because of the strength of the high Australian dollar.

If the dollar every drops below 1 to 1 then I can see a cooling of the demand.

I can't see BNE-HNL being viable long term, but I should do a trip there some time before the service is cancelled.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-12-03 03:00:32 and read 3174 times.

BNE
Why shouldn't BNE-HNL be viable?

Dollar parity is now well-established, and if you spend more than 5 nights in a 4 or 5 star hotel it is now cheaper to go to Hawaii than Hamilton Island or Port Douglas or Palm Cove. Especially if you plan to stock up on clothes or other goods.

I think the real problem is how these Queensland destinations can possibly survive competition from Hawaii and Fiji and Vanuatu.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: smi0006
Posted 2012-12-03 03:13:37 and read 3208 times.

I know that HA gets a strong flow of pax out of MEL from DJ. What is the nature of their agreement these days?

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-12-03 04:27:59 and read 3156 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
The only superior things on Qantas were better recline - although far from lie-flat - and the $2 pyjamas. But this at least earned me elite status on Qantas.

You didn't notice the extra 20" of pitch? The better food, wines, second meal (or snack or whatever they do on this flight) etc?

But it is irrelevant. QF is the best premium product in the direct market, even if it's not particularly excellent.

Quoting Ditzyboy (Reply 23):

Apologies, there were people who are generally pretty accurate on other threads who said they were being fitted with the domestic seats... If the seats have remained in the 1-2-2 config then nothing will change...

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-12-03 05:25:13 and read 3112 times.

QF002
Qantas Business Class to Honolulu has inferior catering and IFE compared with Hawaiian Airlines, although the seat is similar. Qantas is superior only in terms of wine. Hawaiian's long-haul Business Class multi-plate catering is surprisingly outstanding.

JQ's seats are similar to HA and QF, but their Business Class catering is like other airlines' Economy catering. Then again, you're earning the same miles and status as in Qantas Business, at 45% of the airfare.

In fact, QF, JQ and HA have near-identical recliner seats on that route, in my 2011-12 experience. Qantas has noticeably greater pitch, but because it is a recliner and not an angled-bed you can't actually use it unless you are blessed with knees which fold forwards instead of backwards. It's just dead space. And the Qantas cabin and seats are manifestly older and more obsolete than on the other carriers.

I live near BNE, and until last month every option to Hawaii was one-stop. And the winter 777 operated by Air New Zealand massively outclassed Qantas with a superior seat (bed actually), better food, better wine and better IFE.

But if Qantas think they have the best Business Class hard and soft product on the route, they had better think again.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: Ditzyboy
Posted 2012-12-03 15:39:46 and read 2896 times.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 9):
I would say that HA's success on the SYD route could be attributed to several things including the following:

I just wanted to mention, HALFA, that you have nailed it in your summation of HA's success in Sydney. Although HA does have the advantage of same-carrier Mainland US connections, other airlines should be doing more to match HA's superior overall product. HA's success in such a short time really speaks for itself.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: rjm717
Posted 2012-12-04 14:25:04 and read 2575 times.

Quoting BNE" class="quote" target="_blank">BNE (Reply 25):
I can't see BNE-HNL being viable long term, but I should do a trip there some time before the service is cancelled.

The big advantages BNE has are inbound timing and a lack of curfew. HA now has the ability to connect passengers from HNL to MEL/HBA/ADL/PER and northern Qld. Current times into SYD only allow connections to MEL and they are compromised if the flight is late. This isn't just a service from/to BNE alone.

R

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-12-06 02:51:56 and read 2246 times.

Ok HA increasing SYD and upgrading to an A330, commenced services to BNE, commmenced or commencing services to AKL which leaves MEL theonly large city in this corner of the world not served by HA. JQ anounced that it will fly direct MEL-HNL in the next comming weeks. 2 questions I have is:-

1. Does QF feel threatened by HA by starting MEL-HNL with JQ direct even thow it didnt work the first time they flew it, or
2. Will HA in the future of near future anounce a service to MEL ?

Would love to see HA here in Melbourne, bring it on Hawian.

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: msp747
Posted 2012-12-06 07:33:36 and read 2105 times.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 2):
Where does HA keep finding airplanes to fly these routes?! I get that they are getting a new A330, but it seems like one hiccup on one plane and the domino effect could cripple things

With this international expansion underway at HA, are they planning on holding onto their 767's a little longer now? I thought they were being phased out as they added A330's, but with all these new routes, it seems like HA needs all the planes it can get

Topic: RE: Hawaiian Adding More SYD Flights
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-06 20:51:30 and read 1871 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 29):
ut if Qantas think they have the best Business Class hard and soft product on the route, they had better think again.

I expect QF's large frequent flyer base must be a significant factor in choice of carrier, regardless of other service aspects.


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