Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5624994/

Topic: HA To Launch TPE
Username: yanksn4
Posted 2012-12-03 05:30:14 and read 8625 times.

Hello

Did not see this come up yet on the search or forums yet, but HA looks to be adding TPE from HNL using its A332. Service starts in July 2013 at 3x per week. Link below.

http://worldairlinenews.com/2012/12/...ipei-taiwan-starting-in-july-2013/

Please delete if already started.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: jetsetter629
Posted 2012-12-03 05:44:56 and read 8537 times.

Their Pacific Rim growth continues! Congrats again to HA!

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: yanksn4
Posted 2012-12-03 05:48:01 and read 8529 times.

Indeed quite impressive and glad to see a US carrier adding more routes across the Pacific Rim. Big question now is when does the Chinese mainland finally get service. Either PEK or PVG. I think it's a question of time now. Would be a nice option of my numerous trips back and forth to China each year (or for the future mrs. to see her family back home).

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: jetsetter629
Posted 2012-12-03 06:14:59 and read 8370 times.

Quoting yanksn4 (Reply 2):
Big question now is when does the Chinese mainland finally get service. Either PEK or PVG. I think it's a question of time now

I agree that either PEK, PVG, or HKG are the next airports to be added. But you'll notice they have added flights to countries with the visa waiver program first (S Korea, Japan, and Taiwan).

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: yanksn4
Posted 2012-12-03 07:01:03 and read 8204 times.

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 3):
I agree that either PEK, PVG, or HKG are the next airports to be added. But you'll notice they have added flights to countries with the visa waiver program first (S Korea, Japan, and Taiwan).

That was one of the first things I noticed when I heard this. With Taiwan now/soon to be receiving Visa-waiver status, fits the mold of other countries in the region HA is expanding to. Considering that, HKG will probably be next as HK passports do not require a visa as far as I know. I still think SIN as some on the forums here have speculated is too far / thin a route for Hawaii but who knows.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: SingaporeBoy
Posted 2012-12-03 07:47:06 and read 8025 times.

Singapore Singapore!!!!Would love to see their aircraft here in Changi.I think HA has one of the nicest liveries and would certainly add color to the rather dull Terminal Buildings here.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-03 08:03:31 and read 7938 times.

Guess who isn't surprised, but excited, and probably going to take this route from PHX at the same time? 

Awesome choice, HA!

[Edited 2012-12-03 08:03:48]

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: je89_w
Posted 2012-12-03 08:13:15 and read 7887 times.

HA is really on a roll! More info here:

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1763593&highlight=

On a related note, other airlines that have once operated flights to TPE from HNL are China Airlines (nonstop, in addition to the current HNL-NRT-TPE service), EVA Air (failed twice), and Aloha Pacific.

Guess it's time to predict HA's next destination. Perhaps MEL?

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: aznmadsci
Posted 2012-12-03 08:18:36 and read 7855 times.

Quoting je89_w (Reply 7):
Guess it's time to predict HA's next destination. Perhaps MEL?

What about CEB? Or is the Philippine traffic centered around MNL and Luzon?

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: KaiTak747
Posted 2012-12-03 08:33:14 and read 7786 times.

Well done HA, always great to read about new routes. The A332s must be arriving quickly!

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: bioyuki
Posted 2012-12-03 09:55:00 and read 7547 times.

Congrats to HA! Does anybody know what the timing of the flights will be? Would love to fly SFO-TPE via HNL if stopovers are allowed  

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-03 10:04:18 and read 7487 times.

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 3):
Quoting yanksn4 (Reply 2):Big question now is when does the Chinese mainland finally get service. Either PEK or PVG. I think it's a question of time now
I agree that either PEK, PVG, or HKG are the next airports to be added. But you'll notice they have added flights to countries with the visa waiver program first (S Korea, Japan, and Taiwan).

HA has also only added service to countries where Open Skies agreements exist with the U.S., meaning no restrictions on routes or frequencies. China is not Open Skies so the U.S. government would first hae to negotiate the rights to permit HA service.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: PassedV1
Posted 2012-12-03 10:28:22 and read 7403 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):

This is true, however, Dunkerly has openly stated HA's desire to fly to China so I think it's more a practical point. I know HA will eventually fly to China, however, after reading the DOT ruling awarding Delta the Haneda slot, I am not sure HA will be competetive for any China rights that come open for awhile.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: seahawks7757
Posted 2012-12-03 10:54:21 and read 7287 times.

Great news for HA, was about to post this if it hadn't been yet.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: UA735WL
Posted 2012-12-03 12:35:52 and read 7002 times.

Interesting little history lesson...Aloha operated HNL-TPE for several months in 1984-5 with a leased DC-10-30 using the brand "Aloha Pacific". It was wildly unprofitable and was dropped. Hopefully HA fares better.

[Edited 2012-12-03 12:41:17]

[Edited 2012-12-03 12:44:34]

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: articulatexpat
Posted 2012-12-03 14:33:14 and read 6092 times.

Quoting yanksn4 (Reply 4):
Considering that, HKG will probably be next as HK passports do not require a visa as far as I know.

Unfortunately, HK isn't in the Visa Waiver Program yet.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-12-03 14:36:11 and read 6057 times.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 12):
This is true, however, Dunkerly has openly stated HA's desire to fly to China so I think it's more a practical point. I know HA will eventually fly to China, however, after reading the DOT ruling awarding Delta the Haneda slot, I am not sure HA will be competetive for any China rights that come open for awhile.

I believe that there are rights to China available now. The Chinese rush has died down a lot in the past couple of years as the airlines have learned that the China routes are not as great of a goldmine as they expected/hoped.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: CityAirline
Posted 2012-12-03 14:54:41 and read 5881 times.

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 8):
What about CEB? Or is the Philippine traffic centered around MNL and Luzon?

No way. Not before MNL is daily, which is not at its curent four weekly service.
Although CEB is quite attractive for tourism and such, the popualtion in and around Manila is about ten times the size the one in and around Cebu! On top of this, almost all of the little businesss traffic that does go to the Philippines is almost entirely concentrated to the capital region, as you say.

A comparison is that there are ten daily widebodies between the Gulf countries and Manila, while not one single flight to Cebu. So a flight to Cebu won't happen when Manila is still at four weekly...

/Alex

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: JohnClipper
Posted 2012-12-03 16:44:21 and read 5198 times.

HKG is open skies...no route authorities are needed.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: MarcoPoloWorld
Posted 2012-12-03 18:09:54 and read 4785 times.

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 8):
What about CEB?

Absolutely - at least at some point. If major mainline carriers ranging from Cathay Pacific to Asiana and Korean Air can make it work (and Philippine Airlines flying to/from Tokyo from there), Hawaiian might as well at least try it, especially if they can get an agreement with one of the local carriers for connections at Cebu, which has a ton of daily domestic and regional flights. Cebu City might be distant from Manila in population, but it is the second largest city in a country with strong ties to the US. And I take CEB as a port of entry / exit in the Philippines over MNL any day whenever practical and feasible.

Anyway, interesting move by HA to Taipei, and good luck to them. I'll try them out some time.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: carpethead
Posted 2012-12-03 19:25:35 and read 4432 times.

Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 19):
If major mainline carriers ranging from Cathay Pacific to Asiana and Korean Air can make it work

Those airlines fly big city to a holiday destination and the distance is not too much either. CEB-HNL would be a holiday-to-holiday destination. There aren't too many routes like that in the world, particularly with long-haul.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: ANA787
Posted 2012-12-03 20:55:28 and read 4043 times.

Quoting je89_w (Reply 7):
Guess it's time to predict HA's next destination. Perhaps MEL?

Next destinations:
NGO?
GUM?
MEL?
RAR?

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: hawaiian717
Posted 2012-12-03 21:03:56 and read 4003 times.

Will be interesting to see if HA times this flight to allow west coast connections. If they do, they're going to have to offer some pretty attractive fares to pull people away from west coast-TPE nonstop flights. Using the SFO example mentioned above, going via HNL adds 998 miles compared to a nonstop (offered by BR, CI, and soon UA), plus the extra time needed for the connection.

I could see it being a bit more attractive being able to offer on-line connections from HA's smaller markets that don't offer a nonstop to TPE, but its still going to mean going out of their way compared to a west coast connection.

But knowing HA, their focus will be on the Hawaii-TPE market, and any west coast-TPE passengers will just be a bonus.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: jetMarc
Posted 2012-12-03 21:24:27 and read 3895 times.

Their recent growth is amazing! Do you think there's a (connecting) market for HNL-MEX? Maybe if they start Beijing or Shanghai?

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: zrs70
Posted 2012-12-03 22:00:04 and read 3773 times.

I think HA should really consider having a more international business product. While their front cabin is better than US carriers' domestic first, it is nowhere nearly as nice a true international business!

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-04 04:23:42 and read 2982 times.

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 23):
Their recent growth is amazing! Do you think there's a (connecting) market for HNL-MEX? Maybe if they start Beijing or Shanghai?

Abosultely....lots of money in MEX.....definitely would work.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: JohnClipper
Posted 2012-12-04 07:40:34 and read 2721 times.

HKG to CEB is mostly domestic workers going back and forth.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: CoachClass
Posted 2012-12-04 07:49:43 and read 2797 times.

Best of Luck, HA.

My concern is that it feels like the old days when Braniff went big with international expansion and look where it is today.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-04 07:57:49 and read 2786 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
China is not Open Skies so the U.S. government would first hae to negotiate the rights to permit HA service.

HA could fly to China tomorrow. There are plenty of unused authorities available for the US side.

What keeps HA away from China is the passenger visa issue. CEO has stated until it becomes easier for Chinese to travel and opt for vacations in Hawaii the markets potential is held back.

To this end however and in preparations HA in June opened its first China sales office.

Keep in mind Seoul service was launched following South Korea's entry into the Visa-waiver program, and now with Taiwan's entry voila service is announced. I can see a pattern....

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: mbm3
Posted 2012-12-04 10:10:45 and read 2673 times.

Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 5):
Singapore Singapore!!!!Would love to see their aircraft here in Changi.I think HA has one of the nicest liveries and would certainly add color to the rather dull Terminal Buildings here.

They might want to start this route before Scoot sets eyes on it!

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2012-12-04 10:56:33 and read 2635 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 25):
Abosultely....lots of money in MEX.....definitely would work.

Well, I definitely want to visit Hawai'i at some point, and I'd love to have a nonstop option, but I am not too sure the market is big enough to support, let's say, 3x weekly HNL-MEX-HNL. Perhaps the seats could be filled, but this would be an all-leisure market, so not sure if the yields would be there. On the other hand, I have to wonder how many Mexicans would really make this trip... there are fantastic beaches in Mexico, and they sufficiently satisfy the demand for beach vacations of many Mexicans. And for those who are sufficiently wealthy and want to visit other exotic beach destinations, Hawai'i competes with the likes of beach destinations in South America, the Mediterranean, the Pacific, Southeast Asia, the South Pacific and Oceania (true, Hawai'i would be closer, so that is an advantage).

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: HAL
Posted 2012-12-04 11:52:39 and read 2575 times.

Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 5):
Singapore Singapore!!!!

Unfortunately, the A330 can't fly HNL-SIN with a full load, and if HA has to offload pax and cargo, it wouldn't be profitable enough to run. I think SIN will have to wait for the A350.

HAL

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-12-04 12:06:45 and read 2529 times.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 12):
after reading the DOT ruling awarding Delta the Haneda slot, I am not sure HA will be competetive for any China rights that come open for awhile.

They won't have any problem getting PRC rights.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 21):
MEL?

Given that they've just launched BNE and AKL, I think MEL must be on its way. Tourism from Australia to Hawaii is booming.

I guess the only wrench in the works is that JQ has just launched this route, and I'm not sure that the market to handle that much extra capacity right now. A year down the road however...

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 23):
HNL-MEX?

Interesting, as you say that it could work if they time the flight to connect to Asia.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2012-12-04 12:12:37 and read 2514 times.

This is no surprise since Taiwan became a visa waiver country last month so now tourists can freely travel to Hawaii. Hawaiian is a heavy lobbyist for expanding the visa waiver program since that is how they draw people to Hawaii.

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 18):
HKG is open skies...no route authorities are needed.

Hawaiian would have to lobby for HKG visa waiver to be extended beyond the Pacific Territories and include the rest of the United States. Currently HKG visa waiver only allows entry to the Pacific Territories such as Guam, so that limits the traffic that HA can get. No route authority is needed, but until full visa waiver the route has no chance.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: ryu2
Posted 2012-12-04 12:49:12 and read 2463 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
Keep in mind Seoul service was launched following South Korea's entry into the Visa-waiver program, and now with Taiwan's entry voila service is announced. I can see a pattern....

Unfortunately it will be a long time if ever before China gets Visa Waiver. It's still a developing country and many, if not most mainland Chinese would want to immigrate to the US.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-10 03:45:41 and read 2024 times.

Quoting je89_w (Reply 7):
Guess it's time to predict HA's next destination. Perhaps MEL?

Maybe, good thought and it would make sense given the strong AUD.

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 3):
I agree that either PEK, PVG
Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 12):
This is true, however, Dunkerly has openly stated HA's desire to fly to China so I think it's more a practical point. I know HA will eventually fly to China, however, after reading the DOT ruling awarding Delta the Haneda slot, I am not sure HA will be competetive for any China rights that come open for awhile.

DL got it's SEA-PVG flght award in like 3 days, there are open slots available for US - China flight authorities.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 21):
Next destinations:
NGO?
GUM?
MEL?
RAR?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 28):
To this end however and in preparations HA in June opened its first China sales office

According to the article I read in the Star Advitisor a week ago, HA has offices in Shanghai and Beijing currently open, they are routing passengers via ICN, KIX & FUK currently but that HA is definatly looking at PVG & PEK n/s to HNL.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 32):
Given that they've just launched BNE and AKL, I think MEL must be on its way. Tourism from Australia to Hawaii is booming.

You speak the truth, many many Aussies we ran into this last week wandering the streets of Waikiki, doing tons of shopping at Chanel, Louis, Prada, Ferrari and more, they all said the shoppng was cheaper than home, and were buying Christmas gifts and paying for the vacation at the Hyatt Regency where we stayed.

Topic: RE: HA To Launch TPE
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2012-12-10 06:33:40 and read 1888 times.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 27):


My concern is that it feels like the old days when Braniff went big with international expansion and look where it is today.

Hardly comparable. Braniff misread the deregulated tea leaves, applying for almost any international authority that opened up without regards to WHY that authority was opening up in the first place. Harding, the CEO of Braniff truly believed that deregulation was going to be a short-term anomaly and when the door closed, BN would have grandfather rights to whatever markets they snapped up during deregulation's brief window of opportunity.

HA is not jumping willy-nilly into whatever market strikes their fancy. The logical growth opportunities lie west of HNL for HA right now, and that's why their focusing on Asia/Pacific/Oceana at this time.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/