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Topic: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-21 12:35:23 and read 10703 times.

Hello all, autumn is finally upon us! (or whatever we call "autumn", it's still high 80s around here!)

Our third thread this year, and some lively conversation going on!

On the docket this time around:
UA possibly sending the 787 to PHX tomorrow?
Winter snowbird flights/seasonal flights commencing
DL sending the 767 for one of its ATL flights
Rumors about the US/AA merger (I Haven't heard too much recently, due to AA's troubles)
The Skytrain seems to be going along quite nicely! They have so much going on over by Terminal 3 right now.

From the last thread:

Quoting PHX787:
Quoting chrisair (Reply 272):
By the way, does anyone know why an AeroSur 744 is sitting at TUS? It's over by Atlantic Aviation.

Do you have the registration number? It could be a transfer from MZJ or something.

See you guys at SkyHarbor, and Go Devils!   

PHX787

[Edited 2012-10-21 12:41:16]

[Edited 2012-10-21 12:41:33]

[Edited 2012-10-21 12:42:42]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: BA744PHX
Posted 2012-10-22 18:24:06 and read 10521 times.

Does anyone know how NK is doing on DEN-AZA? Also how is F9 on future loads doing on AZA-DEN? NK ORD-AZA?

Hoping LAX or SAN are next from AZA

[Edited 2012-10-22 18:51:54]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-10-22 18:47:43 and read 10506 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):

I see. I'll keep checking in with the PHXSpotters page on FB. They have not mentioned anything sense, but Treebeard I think you'd probably know more about this before I would, so if you do find something, please let us know!

Well, UA didn't fly the 787 into PHX today, they had their 787 do a IAH-SFO-IAH run today. Hopefully it will still pay a visit to PHX at some point.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: mach2is2slowaz
Posted 2012-10-22 23:18:55 and read 10455 times.

It would great to see flights out of Gateway to San Diego. 5 min drive from Chandler vs. 30 mins to Sky Harbor and then dealing with terminal 4 security.   

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-22 23:31:27 and read 10452 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 2):
Well, UA didn't fly the 787 into PHX today, they had their 787 do a IAH-SFO-IAH run today. Hopefully it will still pay a visit to PHX at some point.

Yeah I saw them post it on the PHX Spotters page. Disappointing indeed.

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 1):
Hoping LAX or SAN are next from AZA

You know what maybe SAN makes more sense on this list first. Does G4 fly to LAX from AZA?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-24 08:12:32 and read 10361 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 2):

Well, UA didn't fly the 787 into PHX today, they had their 787 do a IAH-SFO-IAH run today. Hopefully it will still pay a visit to PHX at some point.

Hopefully we will get to see this sometime soon. i just hope it is a day that I have off from work.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-10-24 15:48:36 and read 10307 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 1):
Hoping LAX or SAN are next from AZA

You know what maybe SAN makes more sense on this list first. Does G4 fly to LAX from AZA?

G4 does not fly to any city in Calif. from AZA. They used to fly to Stockton but that was a long time ago. I would think NK maybe would hope AZA-Cali routes. I think G4 only flies to SAN through BLI, thats it plus G4 ops are tight in LAX so I don't see any new routes starting in LAX

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-10-24 16:24:18 and read 10295 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 6):
G4 does not fly to any city in Calif. from AZA. They used to fly to Stockton but that was a long time ago. I would think NK maybe would hope AZA-Cali routes. I think G4 only flies to SAN through BLI, thats it plus G4 ops are tight in LAX so I don't see any new routes starting in LAX

G4 flies AZA-OAK but thats it for California by G4. AZA-SCK hasn't been flown since 2007.
With all the daily flights on PHX-LAX right now I just don't see anyone making AZA-LAX a viable route. AZA-SAN I could see working well with NK.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-10-24 19:51:28 and read 10242 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 7):
G4 flies AZA-OAK but thats it for California by G4

My mistake, I forgot that they were flying that route. Thank you for that correction. I do agree with you, AZA-SAN would be a good fit for NK

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-24 19:55:11 and read 10241 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 8):
My mistake, I forgot that they were flying that route. Thank you for that correction. I do agree with you, AZA-SAN would be a good fit for NK

How often does NK operate their current routes in AZA? Daily? A few times per week?

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 5):
Hopefully we will get to see this sometime soon. i just hope it is a day that I have off from work.

Why do you think UA would fly it here anyway? When PHXSpotters announced that on their FB page last week I was completely surprised, because we rarely ever see UA widebodies here. Besides the 764 being used as a charter a few weeks back, I think the largest aircraft UA regularly cycles through here, especially during the peak months here in PHX, is a 757, right?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-25 10:36:16 and read 10145 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Why do you think UA would fly it here anyway? When PHXSpotters announced that on their FB page last week I was completely surprised, because we rarely ever see UA widebodies here. Besides the 764 being used as a charter a few weeks back, I think the largest aircraft UA regularly cycles through here, especially during the peak months here in PHX, is a 757, right?

The only thing I can think of is that United wanted to have all stations familiar with the 787 as well as this could be a good way to train the crews on how to handle the 787. Other than that I do not have the foggiest as you are correct about UA's 737, 319, RJ operations in PHX is SOP..

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-10-25 10:43:41 and read 10143 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
How often does NK operate their current routes in AZA? Daily? A few times per week?

DEN and DFW are at 1x daily and ORD is I think is going to start out at 5x weekly.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-25 11:15:58 and read 10121 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 11):
DEN and DFW are at 1x daily and ORD is I think is going to start out at 5x weekly.

That ORD flight will probably become daily quite soon. My buddy used NK to come back to Mesa from ORD and connected through LAS (when they still had that flight.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 10):
The only thing I can think of is that United wanted to have all stations familiar with the 787 as well as this could be a good way to train the crews on how to handle the 787.

Could PHX request the 787 to come here so the ground crews can be trained in handling the a/c in the desert? Just a thought  

Also: where's a good place to spot at AZA?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-25 14:18:05 and read 10083 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):

Could PHX request the 787 to come here so the ground crews can be trained in handling the a/c in the desert? Just a thought

Yes, but there were at AZA for hot weather testing as well as the 747-8. I do not think October/November's 80 degree days are "hot" days.

I would think it is more of "see our new toy" and familiarization of the plane for all involved.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Also: where's a good place to spot at AZA?

Never shot at AWA, but I would say that you could go to the Park and Ride area at the end of 12C. The Cessna parking lot could give you something, but that is privet property and I think you would get booted quickly. I miss the day of pulling up to the parking lot and shooting over the fence from the back of the truck.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-10-25 14:20:51 and read 10081 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Could PHX request the 787 to come here so the ground crews can be trained in handling the a/c in the desert?

Because hooking up a ground air hose is really hard to do any other place?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-10-25 14:31:59 and read 10071 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Also: where's a good place to spot at AZA?

There is a park with a hill right next the FBO, a good view of the FBO ramp and runways.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 14):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Could PHX request the 787 to come here so the ground crews can be trained in handling the a/c in the desert?

Because hooking up a ground air hose is really hard to do any other place?

LOL.
I think the only time we will ever see the 787 in PHX is because it is a charter or diversion. I would like to see the 787 in PHX but not holding my breath.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-25 20:27:29 and read 10022 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 15):
I think the only time we will ever see the 787 in PHX is because it is a charter or diversion. I would like to see the 787 in PHX but not holding my breath.

Like I keep saying, I definitely see one of the Japanese airlines, either NH or JL, bringing the 787 here once they get their fleet topped out. IMO a perfect aircraft for such a route, and you'd be surprised of the demand there is here.

You know this reminds me, I was going through some stuff on my computer the other day when I was sick, and I recently did a quick yet unofficial poll of some of the people I know who may be interested in such a route.

I asked about 100 people this: 1) How do you normally get to Asia if you're traveling there, and almost all say LAX-NRT and about 60% of those say NRT is their final destination.
2) Would you fly a PHX-NRT direct route if such a route was given? and the response was an overwhelming yes.
3) Would price matter for such a route? And about 10% said yes, and 80% said no. 10 said unsure.
4) Do you think this would be a good route for the businesses here in Arizona? and the overwhelming response was yes.

So obviously people involved with japan would be very enthusiastic about such a route. In order to make this poll more credible, I'm going to email someone I know in the statistics department at ASU and see if I can get them to create a "scientific poll" regarding this.

If DEN can support a Japanese route, I think we can too, because we have a Star hub (or could be a O.W. hub if US merges) and we also have quite a large city and lots of business opportunities here  
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 15):
There is a park with a hill right next the FBO, a good view of the FBO ramp and runways.
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 13):

thanks guys

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-10-25 21:15:09 and read 9998 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16):
IMO a perfect aircraft for such a route, and you'd be surprised of the demand there is here.

I don't think it's a matter of being able to fill the planes or not; between the local demand and the ability to connect passengers beyond Tokyo, that shouldn't be a problem at all. I think two big things that has kept NRT from launching is that the airline currently best suited to fly that route has been somewhat limited in its long haul equipment over the last few years, and the returns relative to other route opportunities aren't exactly attracting a lot of attention from anyone else at the moment. Someone is bound to start it eventually though so long as the economy continues to mature in the Valley, and as you indicated, aircraft like the 787 are a good fit for routes like these and probably greatly increase our chances here.  

Check your PM inbox, by the way.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-25 21:32:06 and read 9986 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 17):
Check your PM inbox, by the way.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Quoting wn676 (Reply 17):
Someone is bound to start it eventually though so long as the economy continues to mature in the Valley, and as you indicated, aircraft like the 787 are a good fit for routes like these and probably greatly increase our chances here.

You're right, and I'm not talking about an immediate announcement, I can feasibly see it down the road in about 5 years, say if the economy picks back up and PHX begins to expand wildly again, without me being totally surprised. I'd be really surprised if the route was to be announced between tomorrow and the next 2 or 3 years ...
(pleasantly of course.....oh, who am I kidding, I'd be joyously celebrating with champagne and Asian women       )

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-26 03:50:44 and read 9949 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):

You're right, and I'm not talking about an immediate announcement, I can feasibly see it down the road in about 5 years, say if the economy picks back up and PHX begins to expand wildly again, without me being totally surprised. I'd be really surprised if the route was to be announced between tomorrow and the next 2 or 3 years ...

One also has to wonder if JAL going into SAN is a judge on smaller markets. I would also wonder if JAL would do a version of the BA LHR-PHX-SAN, but do NRT-SAN-PHX?

I agree that we will probably not see a 787 anytime soon, but we all can hope....

What will BA use once they retire the 747? I know they have the 380 on order, but I would think that the 777 would be coming back to PHX with the retirement of the 744. Talking to some British nationals the other day on top of T-4 they said that the flights are almost always full.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: RavenTech
Posted 2012-10-26 05:56:17 and read 9932 times.

Assuming that the yeilds are good on LHR-PHX then I would imagine they would go 777-300ER or if the go 200 then they probably add a couple flights per week to maintain capacity.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-10-26 09:51:51 and read 9890 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 19):
What will BA use once they retire the 747? I know they have the 380 on order, but I would think that the 777 would be coming back to PHX with the retirement of the 744. Talking to some British nationals the other day on top of T-4 they said that the flights are almost always full.

I think BA does very well here in PHX, they have been serving this market for the last 16 years now and have only used aircraft smaller then the 744 on two occasions, first with a DC-10 from 1996 to 1998 then a 772 around 2003-04. I imagine once the 744 is finally withdrawn from service with BA I think something like a daily 77W would be a good match for LHR-PHX, especially if US moves to One World in a merger with AA. BA still has 57 744s active so it will be several years before they are all withdrawn, and I could see PHX being one of the last cities to see the 747 from BA.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-26 10:03:47 and read 9879 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 19):
What will BA use once they retire the 747? I know they have the 380 on order, but I would think that the 777 would be coming back to PHX with the retirement of the 744. Talking to some British nationals the other day on top of T-4 they said that the flights are almost always full.
Quoting RavenTech (Reply 20):
Assuming that the yeilds are good on LHR-PHX then I would imagine they would go 777-300ER or if the go 200 then they probably add a couple flights per week to maintain capacity.
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 21):
I think BA does very well here in PHX,

They do indeed. Once the 744 is withdrawn, we could probably see Terminal 4 upgraded enough to support an A380 or BA taking orders of the 748. If not, then the 77W just screams this route.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 19):
One also has to wonder if JAL going into SAN is a judge on smaller markets. I would also wonder if JAL would do a version of the BA LHR-PHX-SAN, but do NRT-SAN-PHX?

Rumor has it that when the JL pilot flew in here back in March to pick up the Mariners for the game in Tokyo, he questioned why their airline never flew here, because of the perfect weather  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-10-26 10:51:17 and read 9857 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
Rumor has it that when the JL pilot flew in here back in March to pick up the Mariners for the game in Tokyo, he questioned why their airline never flew here, because of the perfect weather  

Just what we need. More tourists coming for the weather. I'm already seeing more Minnesota, Alberta, Iowa etc plates in the Valley and here in Tucson. Time to prepare for the people driving 55 in the fast lane on the 10...

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-26 11:10:35 and read 9848 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):

They do indeed. Once the 744 is withdrawn, we could probably see Terminal 4 upgraded enough to support an A380 or BA taking orders of the 748. If not, then the 77W just screams this route.

380 No way and they opted for the 380 over the 748, so this would surmise that the 77W will probably be plying the sky's when the 744 is removed from service.


Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 21):
I think BA does very well here in PHX, they have been serving this market for the last 16 years now and have only used aircraft smaller then the 744 on two occasions,

Agree, the last time I checked there was a $200 per trip premium.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
Rumor has it that when the JL pilot flew in here back in March to pick up the Mariners for the game in Tokyo, he questioned why their airline never flew here, because of the perfect weather

Would they say the same thing in June and July when we are baking in our own juices?

Quoting chrisair (Reply 23):
Just what we need. More tourists coming for the weather. I'm already seeing more Minnesota, Alberta, Iowa etc plates in the Valley and here in Tucson. Time to prepare for the people driving 55 in the fast lane on the 10...

That is great and as a long time resident, totally accurate. I love the snowbirds on I-10 at 7:00 AM driving 55 and wondering why everyone is giving them the one finger salute. Then we have the California transfers any time the ground really shakes. They then drive 95 on the city streets (no lie, say it yesterday and laughed as I pulled up to them at the next three lights.)

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-26 11:45:52 and read 9956 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 24):
Would they say the same thing in June and July when we are baking in our own juices?

I had a friend come here in July and she said she loved it....she loves being in a bikini though and swimming  
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 24):
That is great and as a long time resident, totally accurate. I love the snowbirds on I-10 at 7:00 AM driving 55 and wondering why everyone is giving them the one finger salute. Then we have the California transfers any time the ground really shakes. They then drive 95 on the city streets (no lie, say it yesterday and laughed as I pulled up to them at the next three lights.)

Glad you don't give an Ohio native like me s*** for driving  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-10-26 13:30:26 and read 9902 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
Glad you don't give an Ohio native like me s*** for driving  

Your not over the age of 65 and drive a 2003 Buick or do you??

Quoting RavenTech (Reply 20):

But that won't be happening anytime soon, they 747 is performing quite well for BA in PHX. The flight loads are good with people and cargo. The BA 747 will be sticking around for a while in PHX, espically when they are going everyday on the route starting in December(please correct me if I am wrong).

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-10-26 13:47:59 and read 10008 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
Glad you don't give an Ohio native like me s*** for driving

Depends on which plates grace your car. Are they the cool ones or the Beautiful Ohio ones? Or the best one of all: the Arizona Centennial one.  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-26 14:30:50 and read 9987 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 26):
Your not over the age of 65 and drive a 2003 Buick or do you??
Quoting chrisair (Reply 27):
Depends on which plates grace your car. Are they the cool ones or the Beautiful Ohio ones? Or the best one of all: the Arizona Centennial one.

Beautiful Ohio plates, 03 Honda and I'm 21  
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 26):
The BA 747 will be sticking around for a while in PHX, espically when they are going everyday on the route starting in December(please correct me if I am wrong).

That is correct, I believe it's Dec. 6

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-26 16:51:38 and read 9947 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
Glad you don't give an Ohio native like me s*** for driving

As long as you do not have a insertion of your cranium in your rectum you are fine.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
I had a friend come here in July and she said she loved it....she loves being in a bikini though and swimming

That is fine and I know people that love the heat, but there are certain population that I think would not do to well in the AZ sun.....

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 26):
Your not over the age of 65 and drive a 2003 Buick or do you??

Award for one of the best lines I have read on this sight.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 28):
Beautiful Ohio plates, 03 Honda and I'm 21

But do you drive 55 in the high speed lane for no apparent reason? If that is the case then Yes and move over. We also subscribe to the bigger vehicle makes the rules. People seem to get out of my way in a 4X4 that I drive.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-10-27 11:20:31 and read 9790 times.

Thought you guys might be interested in this. Below are the largest international O&D markets to PHX from 2011:

1) Calgary - 480 PDEW
2) Toronto - 335 PDEW
3) Vancouver - 310 PDEW
4) Edmonton - 295 PDEW
5) London - 169 PDEW
6) Mexico City - 149 PDEW
7) Winnipeg - 128 PDEW
8) Los Cabos - 124 PDEW
9) Guadalajara - 105 PDEW
10) Montreal - 99 PDEW
11) Cancun - 97 PDEW
12) Puerto Vallarta - 88 PDEW
13) Mazatlan - 86 PDEW
14) Paris - 63 PDEW
15) Saskatoon - 57 PDEW

As you can see, PHX is pretty Canada/Mexico top heavy.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-10-27 13:22:08 and read 9738 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):

Thank you for posting that. US has a pretty good feed to Mexico. Air Canada and West Jet have a pretty big seasonal operation in PHX, they both have flights all day and into the night.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-27 13:28:49 and read 9732 times.

Thanks LAXdude1023

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
1) Calgary - 480 PDEW

Interesting. Does West Jet operate this route year long, or no?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
5) London - 169 PDEW

Not surprising at all

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
14) Paris - 63 PDEW

Do you guys think that PHX could sustain an AF 787 flight, looking at this?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-27 13:48:20 and read 9716 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
As you can see, PHX is pretty Canada/Mexico top heavy.

Yes, when the housing market went down the toliet there were a lot of Canadians that bought homes down here. I guess that is why AC and Westjet can offer year round service. Thanks for the data

Canada

1) Calgary - 480 PDEW
2) Toronto - 335 PDEW
3) Vancouver - 310 PDEW
4) Edmonton - 295 PDEW
7) Winnipeg - 128 PDEW
10) Montreal - 99 PDEW
15) Saskatoon - 57 PDEW

Mexico
6) Mexico City - 149 PDEW
8) Los Cabos - 124 PDEW
9) Guadalajara - 105 PDEW
11) Cancun - 97 PDEW
12) Puerto Vallarta - 88 PDEW
13) Mazatlan - 86 PDEW


5) London - 169 PDEW - not surprised by this one either and this is how BA can keep flying a 744 to PHX.

14) Paris - 63 PDEW - REALLY surprised by this one. I would of thought a German city would of been higher on this list.

After seeing these number I am wondering if there will be more flights to Canada and Mexico. I know AM has a very small presence in PHX so the bulk would have to be from US. I also wonder if this plays into WN's international expansion plans. I can see PHX being a key city to Mexico for them.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 32):
Do you guys think that PHX could sustain an AF 787 flight, looking at this?

I do not think so. If they did something like that I would think it could be a code share and not on AF metal. DA is their skyteam member, so I would could see something from ATL.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-10-27 13:48:22 and read 9714 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
1) Calgary - 480 PDEW
2) Toronto - 335 PDEW
3) Vancouver - 310 PDEW
4) Edmonton - 295 PDEW
5) London - 169 PDEW
6) Mexico City - 149 PDEW
7) Winnipeg - 128 PDEW
8) Los Cabos - 124 PDEW
9) Guadalajara - 105 PDEW
10) Montreal - 99 PDEW
11) Cancun - 97 PDEW
12) Puerto Vallarta - 88 PDEW
13) Mazatlan - 86 PDEW
14) Paris - 63 PDEW
15) Saskatoon - 57 PDEW

Clarification:

The toggle on my spreadsheet was set incorrectly. Those are round trip numbers. So you need to cut them in half to get the each direction number. For example PHXCDG is 31-32 PDEW.

Still the same point though. PHX is a very Mexico/Canada top heavy market with the exception of London. And PHX already has a flight there.

[Edited 2012-10-27 13:52:35]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-10-27 14:01:28 and read 9738 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 32):
Do you guys think that PHX could sustain an AF 787 flight, looking at this?

PHXCDG is actually larger than CLTCDG or CVGCDG.

But the average paid fare is far lower than either of those markets.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-28 05:22:24 and read 9611 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16):
I asked about 100 people this: 1) How do you normally get to Asia if you're traveling there, and almost all say LAX-NRT and about 60% of those say NRT is their final destination.
2) Would you fly a PHX-NRT direct route if such a route was given? and the response was an overwhelming yes.
3) Would price matter for such a route? And about 10% said yes, and 80% said no. 10 said unsure.
4) Do you think this would be a good route for the businesses here in Arizona? and the overwhelming response was yes.

The problem is that this is not really scientific. You are dealing with a population that has a vested interest in travel to and from PHX. You will find out (from ASU) that the proper poll would have to be a blind sample of greater than 100,000 people to come to any conclusion and this would still not be a scientifically significant sample. To gain a good sample size it must be at 10% of the population or higher.

With that being said, I am wondering if a Chinese Airlines would come to PHX. With Intel, Raython, Honeywell, Boeing and other technology company's having such a presence be a more logical choice?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):
PHXCDG is actually larger than CLTCDG or CVGCDG.

But the average paid fare is far lower than either of those markets.

That is because of our governor took a trip to Europe to aid in trade with Arizona.... Yeah, that is the ticket......She helped this statistic.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-29 10:00:04 and read 9487 times.

Anyone else see what was on fire near the airport this morning around 8:30? There was so much smoke in that area but ops looked normal. I was driving across the lake on Rural on my way to school and I couldn't see much though.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 36):
With that being said, I am wondering if a Chinese Airlines would come to PHX. With Intel, Raython, Honeywell, Boeing and other technology company's having such a presence be a more logical choice?

CZ could probably make that happen with their 787

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-10-30 23:58:05 and read 9321 times.

Anyone else hear a rumor of the AN-225 being sent to AZA to pick up apaches?

I heard that from a number of people today (spotters, this time) but I have no clue.

Anyway, thread's been quiet recently. Nothing too surprising on the OAG threads.

Is it normal for the BA 744 to be operating later these days? It's been tough trying to catch it land because it lands past sunset.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-10-31 00:37:08 and read 9313 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):

Anyone else hear a rumor of the AN-225 being sent to AZA to pick up apaches?

It always comes in and out of AZA time and time again to pick up apaches from Boeing. Where they are going? Don't know, I have heard the middle east though.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Is it normal for the BA 744 to be operating later these days? It's been tough trying to catch it land because it lands past sunset.

It usually does land past sunset during the winter.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-10-31 05:21:53 and read 9285 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 37):

Based on fare data and PHX-China O&D, there is no aircraft for which PHX-China could work.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-31 06:37:32 and read 9259 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I think BA does very well here in PHX,

They do indeed. Once the 744 is withdrawn, we could probably see Terminal 4 upgraded enough to support an A380 or BA taking orders of the 748. If not, then the 77W just screams this route.

Certainly upgrades would be required to the airfield and stand configuration...but what upgrades do you think are required to the terminal? Besides loading bridges capabile of handling the A380, there do not appear to be significant other requirements for a single daily A380 flight that would be required. Whether the FIS could handle that volume of passengers would be entirely based on the scheduling of other international arriving flights at the same time...so would concede it is a potential issue but would be based on other circumstances. Otherwise the T4 bagroom could certainly handle the additional outbound load. Same thing for the ticket counters, departure concourse, etc.

Given that the City of Phoenix has moved on from terminal expansions along the lines of the West Terminal (as WN remains vehemently opposed to this development and they would need to be the key tenant in the facility, plus slowing traffic growth and increased risk factors associated with the US Airways hub), the FIS issue could be resolved through construction of a second FIS to be used by non-US Airways carriers in Terminal 3. An alternative consideration is to locate the FIS on the site of the former rental car garage (west of the T4 processor in between Sky Harbor Blvd) and make it accessible to both the N1 and (potential) S1 concourses. That development would more likely be driven by WN plans for international services from PHX more than anything else.

Even with a US-AA merger and increased code-sharing potential BA-US over PHX, one has to consider the relatively limited unique destinations that this would provide to BA that aren't already accessible over DFW and California hubs.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-31 06:50:24 and read 9253 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 39):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Is it normal for the BA 744 to be operating later these days? It's been tough trying to catch it land because it lands past sunset.

It usually does land past sunset during the winter.

   Schedule change associated with the end of British Summer Time (happened last Sunday 28 October) and implementation of the BA winter schedule. From 31 March 2013, the route returns to summer schedule.

Arrival times in PHX:
Summer: 17:10
Winter: 18:45

Don't forget that the time difference between LHR and PHX reduces by one hour for the entire time the UK is off of summer time (unlike most other US markets, which revert to the standard time zone differences once the US daylight savings time ends in November).

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-10-31 06:55:30 and read 9249 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 39):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):

Anyone else hear a rumor of the AN-225 being sent to AZA to pick up apaches?

It always comes in and out of AZA time and time again to pick up apaches from Boeing. Where they are going? Don't know, I have heard the middle east though.

As far as I'm aware, it's been here exactly one time. That was to drop off a transformer or something.
Not sure why they would send the AN-225 instead of the AN-124. It is usually only tasked with jobs that it is uniquely capable of doing. I'd love to see it, but would be somewhat surprised if it were picking up Apaches.
Edit: Also, why would it need to stop in Houston?

[Edited 2012-10-31 07:30:24]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-10-31 10:53:54 and read 9189 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 39):
It always comes in and out of AZA time and time again to pick up apaches from Boeing. Where they are going? Don't know, I have heard the middle east though.

Saw it this summer and it was going to Saudi after picking up the AH-64's in Mesa

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 38):
Anyone else hear a rumor of the AN-225 being sent to AZA to pick up apaches?

That is normally an AN-124 not an AN-225

Quoting neveragain (Reply 41):
Given that the City of Phoenix has moved on from terminal expansions along the lines of the West Terminal (as WN remains vehemently opposed to this development and they would need to be the key tenant in the facility, plus slowing traffic growth and increased risk factors associated with the US Airways hub), the FIS issue could be resolved through construction of a second FIS to be used by non-US Airways carriers in Terminal 3. An alternative consideration is to locate the FIS on the site of the former rental car garage (west of the T4 processor in between Sky Harbor Blvd) and make it accessible to both the N1 and (potential) S1 concourses. That development would more likely be driven by WN plans for international services from PHX more than anything else.

Which makes me wonder IF US and AA merge would they flip WN from the south to the north to give them more gates as well as quicker access to the international terminal? What would this do to the layout of T-3 also would be an interesting quandary. Would they close T-2 and move all of the carriers over to T-3. This would allow T-2 to be upgraded or built anew.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 43):
As far as I'm aware, it's been here exactly one time. That was to drop off a transformer or something. Not sure why they would send the AN-225 instead of the AN-124. It is usually only tasked with jobs that it is uniquely capable of doing. I'd love to see it, but would be somewhat surprised if it were picking up Apaches.
Edit: Also, why would it need to stop in Houston?

Agree and you were correct. They dropped of a transformer that was urgently needed and was too costly to ship by land. I would expect that they are dropping off at AZA and picking up something new in Huston.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-10-31 11:08:16 and read 9184 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 41):
Given that the City of Phoenix has moved on from terminal expansions along the lines of the West Terminal (as WN remains vehemently opposed to this development and they would need to be the key tenant in the facility, plus slowing traffic growth and increased risk factors associated with the US Airways hub), the FIS issue could be resolved through construction of a second FIS to be used by non-US Airways carriers in Terminal 3. An alternative consideration is to locate the FIS on the site of the former rental car garage (west of the T4 processor in between Sky Harbor Blvd) and make it accessible to both the N1 and (potential) S1 concourses. That development would more likely be driven by WN plans for international services from PHX more than anything else.

Never though of it like that before... I mean if the merger happens the only air carriers out of T3 north would be B6 and HAL. I always thought UA would come over and take over the north side if AA leaves. Which would mean no more T2 which according to the master plan should have been gone years ago. How could they build an FIS on T3 though? I am not opposing the idea and infact I like it but I just don't see how it could work.. Plus I don't think a 747 could park on the gates down on the south end without blocking the alley to other gates.. Never thought of that, and if it did happen put B6 over on the north end with DL,HA(if they ever move),AS(if they ever move), and F9(if they are still in business)

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 44):
Which makes me wonder IF US and AA merge would they flip WN from the south to the north to give them more gates as well as quicker access to the international terminal? What would this do to the layout of T-3 also would be an interesting quandary. Would they close T-2 and move all of the carriers over to T-3. This would allow T-2 to be upgraded or built anew.

        

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: mach2is2slowaz
Posted 2012-10-31 15:09:19 and read 9146 times.

Any word on the AN-225 or AN124 visit to KIWA?

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 44):

Quoting 4holer (Reply 43):As far as I'm aware, it's been here exactly one time. That was to drop off a transformer or something. Not sure why they would send the AN-225 instead of the AN-124. It is usually only tasked with jobs that it is uniquely capable of doing. I'd love to see it, but would be somewhat surprised if it were picking up Apaches.
Edit: Also, why would it need to stop in Houston?
Agree and you were correct. They dropped of a transformer that was urgently needed and was too costly to ship by land. I would expect that they are dropping off at AZA and picking up something new in Huston.

  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: RavenTech
Posted 2012-10-31 15:45:48 and read 9136 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 46):

I believe its a false alarm, only Antonov on flight aware in America left Tulsa for Manchester this morning.

http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A124

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-10-31 17:59:10 and read 9077 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 45):
Never though of it like that before... I mean if the merger happens the only air carriers out of T3 north would be B6 and HAL. I always thought UA would come over and take over the north side if AA leaves. Which would mean no more T2 which according to the master plan should have been gone years ago. How could they build an FIS on T3 though? I am not opposing the idea and infact I like it but I just don't see how it could work.. Plus I don't think a 747 could park on the gates down on the south end without blocking the alley to other gates.. Never thought of that, and if it did happen put B6 over on the north end with DL,HA(if they ever move),AS(if they ever move), and F9(if they are still in business)

Precisely. While I don't necessarily believe the airline re-shuffling as described in your post is the optimal layout from a facility-use perspective, I do believe you understand the bigger picture here, which is that ongoing airline consolidation will allow -- eventually -- Terminal 2 to be closed and the remaining airlines to be accommodated in Terminals 3 and 4. Who goes where could be handled in many different ways, particularly if expansions were considered to either the north or south concourses of Terminal 3 (not extensions, but expansions). If Terminal 2 were shuttered, Sky Harbor Blvd could be realigned on the west end of the airport, the interchange with I-10 reconfigured, and Terminal 3 (and a future FIS!?!?) expanded westward onto the site of the former ATC and beyond.

I'm not necessarily saying this will happen, but it certainly is a viable option and, in the context of the existing industry and economic environment, much more plausible that holding out for a big-build West Terminal style expansion. PHX has a lot of good options to expand its terminal capacity and remain flexible for any major shakeup to its hubbing airlines, positive or negative.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-10-31 21:23:19 and read 9038 times.

There it goes!
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ADB2350

Could still see an AN124 if Apaches are ready to deliver!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-01 00:11:55 and read 8994 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 49):

Good eye there 4holer....I hope we see some russian Giants in the valley soon!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-01 11:16:20 and read 8939 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 45):
Never though of it like that before... I mean if the merger happens the only air carriers out of T3 north would be B6 and HAL. I always thought UA would come over and take over the north side if AA leaves. Which would mean no more T2 which according to the master plan should have been gone years ago. How could they build an FIS on T3 though? I am not opposing the idea and infact I like it but I just don't see how it could work.. Plus I don't think a 747 could park on the gates down on the south end without blocking the alley to other gates.. Never thought of that, and if it did happen put B6 over on the north end with DL,HA(if they ever move),AS(if they ever move), and F9(if they are still in business)

Agree, but I also wonder if HA would move back to T-4 as they only need one gate from 0:15 to 08:00.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 48):
I'm not necessarily saying this will happen, but it certainly is a viable option and, in the context of the existing industry and economic environment, much more plausible that holding out for a big-build West Terminal style expansion. PHX has a lot of good options to expand its terminal capacity and remain flexible for any major shakeup to its hubbing airlines, positive or negative.

This could happen, but I would wonder whom would occupy such a terminal? If WN, US/AA (I still think this will not happen), AC, BA, AM and (add HA and Great Lakes) are at T-4. DA, UA, F9, Sun Country stay and move AS to T-3

The only question then would be what would be built at the site of T-2?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-01 15:57:37 and read 8890 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 51):
Agree, but I also wonder if HA would move back to T-4 as they only need one gate from 0:15 to 08:00.

Now I have heard that HA has secured a contract with the COP to use gate 26. So I think HA is staying on T3.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 51):
The only question then would be what would be built at the site of T-2?

Perhaps a charter terminal for bowl games and other major events in the valley?

Also I could see great lakes moving to T3 as well, EricR pointed this out to me a couple months back that there is a commuter airline gate on T3 north right next to gate 2.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-01 16:13:53 and read 8876 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 52):
Now I have heard that HA has secured a contract with the COP to use gate 26. So I think HA is staying on T3.

I keep seeing renovations being done at the end of the concourse, is that for HA?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-01 17:34:24 and read 8848 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 52):
Perhaps a charter terminal for bowl games and other major events in the valley?

I think they'd just demolish the old terminal and stripe more hardstands. The space that they have now seems more than adequate for the amount of charters we see here, so I don't see the need for a dedicated facility.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-11-01 18:36:21 and read 8836 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 52):
I keep seeing renovations being done at the end of the concourse, is that for HA?

Most likely yes. If HA does move to gate 26 they will have room to park an A330 vs gate 5 they have now that can only take a 767.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-11-02 02:09:43 and read 8775 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 55):

Most likely yes. If HA does move to gate 26 they will have room to park an A330 vs gate 5 they have now that can only take a 767.

   The HA relocation is to support introduction of the A330 on the PHX flight. Also, unless the City of Phoenix changes its policies for the use of the common-use gates at the end of Pier N4 (six of the seven gates with FIS access), then HA is unlikely to move back to N4. Why? The policy makes it very difficult to RON aircraft on those gates in a cost effective manner. The only RON spaces on the east side of the airport are in the maintenance areas for US and WN. Because there was spare capacity in Terminal 3 and the majority of the RON positions are adjacent to T3 anyway, it made sense to relocate to Terminal 3. Also, didn't HP terminate any code-sharing/partnership agreements with HA when HP started its own Hawaii flights in the 2005 timeframe? I might be wrong about this, but if that is true then it is yet another reason why HA did not benefit from using Terminal 4.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 51):
The only question then would be what would be built at the site of T-2?

Initially, very little! However, demolition of the terminal does allow for more straightforward alignment and construction of the eventual SkyTrain extension to the rental car facility (timing of this seems to fluctuate year-to-year as a result of cost pressures) and realignment of Sky Harbor Boulevard to tie into a reconfigured interchange with I-10, when and if ADOT procedes with such a project. From a planning perspective, closing Terminal 2 provides the airport with significant flexibility for longer-term expansions west of Terminal 3 when and if the need arises.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-02 10:05:26 and read 8696 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 56):
realignment of Sky Harbor Boulevard to tie into a reconfigured interchange with I-10, when and if ADOT procedes with such a project.

Are they going to align this as a normal right-side flow road instead of the british-style left side flow? When is all this planned?


Anyway this morning I heard a large aircraft take off around 8 but I couldn't tell what it was. I think it was possibly the HA flight but that thing is never that loud. It sounded like the engines of an A340 or a 747. Anyone see anything weird?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-11-02 10:26:04 and read 8689 times.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 56):
The HA relocation is to support introduction of the A330 on the PHX flight. Also, unless the City of Phoenix changes its policies for the use of the common-use gates at the end of Pier N4 (six of the seven gates with FIS access), then HA is unlikely to move back to N4. Why? The policy makes it very difficult to RON aircraft on those gates in a cost effective manner. The only RON spaces on the east side of the airport are in the maintenance areas for US and WN. Because there was spare capacity in Terminal 3 and the majority of the RON positions are adjacent to T3 anyway, it made sense to relocate to Terminal 3. Also, didn't HP terminate any code-sharing/partnership agreements with HA when HP started its own Hawaii flights in the 2005 timeframe? I might be wrong about this, but if that is true then it is yet another reason why HA did not benefit from using Terminal 4.

When HA used T4 they didn't RON the 767 here like they do now, it arrived early in the morning and usually departed back to HNL around 9AM, and that was the same time when they had an agreement in place with HP. Once the HP/US merger happened and HP started their own Hawaii service the partnership ended, and it wasn't long after that the move to T3 happened. Terminal 3 has several available gates that all will work for HA and is probably the better terminal for them to use at this point.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-11-02 10:30:18 and read 8691 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 57):

Anyway this morning I heard a large aircraft take off around 8 but I couldn't tell what it was. I think it was possibly the HA flight but that thing is never that loud. It sounded like the engines of an A340 or a 747. Anyone see anything weird?

The only heavy that departed at 8 was HA35.

Check out this strange flight on flightaware, it shows a US A319 that did PHX-FLG.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...8/history/20121102/1530Z/KPHX/KFLG

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-02 10:51:35 and read 8689 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 59):
The only heavy that departed at 8 was HA35.

PHXSpotters say on their FB a C-5 took off this morning. I bet it was that.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 59):
Check out this strange flight on flightaware, it shows a US A319 that did PHX-FLG.

Repositioning for an NAU charter I heard

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-11-02 11:27:04 and read 8674 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 57):
Are they going to align this as a normal right-side flow road instead of the british-style left side flow? When is all this planned?

The eventual outcome of the Sky Harbor Boulevard realignment could be handled in several different ways. I believe the primary objective is to eliminate the northward "kink" on the west end of Terminal 3, which not only is confusing to motorists but also limits the capacity of the Terminal 3 curbsides on both north and south. North because there are several different roadways feeding into the curb, and south because vehicles struggle to exit back onto Sky Harbor Boulevard and enter the correct lane as the road is curving sharply to the left (resulting in queues extending eastward along the curbside). Also, Terminal 2 closure will simplify the "cross-over" that must take place for eastbound vehicles departing from the Terminal 2 curbside and the merging ramp from the left as the eastbound roadway curves to the right. (confusing to describe in text, but you'll see what I mean if you consult a map/diagram)

I do not believe a conversion to a conventional right-hand running is part of the vision. This makes sense given that the curbsides are best configured as they are; if everybody followed the rules, the driver would never exit the vehicle! It only seems bizarre because Sky Harbor is one of only a handful of airports with roadways that enter the property on both ends of the aiport and have terminals that have two different curbsides.

[Edited 2012-11-02 11:32:17]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-02 11:38:38 and read 8665 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 60):
Repositioning for an NAU charter I heard

Yup, goes up to Pocatello and back later this afternoon. The repo for the U of A charter just left for TUS and the ASU charter to EUG will be leaving around 1:30p.

[Edited 2012-11-02 11:40:16]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-02 11:50:40 and read 8649 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 58):
Terminal 3 has several available gates that all will work for HA and is probably the better terminal for them to use at this point.

        
The north side has more widebody friendly gates then the south.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-02 13:31:41 and read 8644 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 59):
The only heavy that departed at 8 was HA35.
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 59):
PHXSpotters say on their FB a C-5 took off this morning. I bet it was that.

A C-17 is being used to move APS and SRP trucks to the East Coast.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-02 14:25:21 and read 8602 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 64):

Any idea when it's leaving?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-02 14:47:49 and read 8594 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 65):
Any idea when it's leaving?

I think it already did as they were staging at 05:30 and the C-17 flew in from Ohio at 05:15. They stated they wanted to be wheels up ASAP.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-03 11:51:00 and read 8472 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 64):
A C-17 is being used to move APS and SRP trucks to the East Coast.

There was a C-5 that landed around 9:30 last night over my apartment. That thing was HUGE and LOUD, and the friend I was with thought it was an alien space ship   

My neighbor back in Ohio flies C-5s and he said that it was indeed for supplies. I wonder if you guys got photos  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-04 06:47:03 and read 8367 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 67):
There was a C-5 that landed around 9:30 last night over my apartment. That thing was HUGE and LOUD, and the friend I was with thought it was an alien space ship

My neighbor back in Ohio flies C-5s and he said that it was indeed for supplies. I wonder if you guys got photos

Well that means that they were bringing in both the C-5 and C-17's from Ohio.

No, I did not get anything from it and know how big the C-5 is. I am still impressed with how quickly a C-17 can get off the ground. I watched them (of course without the camera) coming out of IWA/AZA and doing touch and go's. They could pull them up and do a 90 degree right turn like a fighter.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-11-04 18:43:57 and read 8291 times.

According to
http://www.visitingphx.com/charters.html
there have been 3 C-5s and about 10 C-17s, and I've missed all of them!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-04 22:15:33 and read 8250 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 69):
there have been 3 C-5s and about 10 C-17s, and I've missed all of them!

There should be coming in later this week bringing the SRP trucks back to AZ.

In terms of it, I saw one C5 take off, one C5 land, and 3 C-17s land, all over my apartment.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-04 23:45:02 and read 8250 times.

Can someone explain why when I fly WN California-PHX, we land on the north complex. When I fly DL/Skywest LAX-PHX, we land on the south complex?

Does someone in PHX Approach have something against me and want to curse me with long taxi times?  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-05 10:43:07 and read 8215 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 70):
There should be coming in later this week bringing the SRP trucks back to AZ.

In terms of it, I saw one C5 take off, one C5 land, and 3 C-17s land, all over my apartment.

News stated today that they will not be back until next week. They will probably be in NY/NJ area until next week due to the amount of work.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 71):
Can someone explain why when I fly WN California-PHX, we land on the north complex. When I fly DL/Skywest LAX-PHX, we land on the south complex?

Well, When they have western landings, 26 is the landing runway and 25R is the Take-off runway. 25L I believe up to the discretion of the pilots, but they often have to wait a while for all of the Take-off traffic to clear, When I have been spotting, I have seen WN planes stacked at F12, F11, F10, F9 and a UA at F6 all waiting to cross.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-05 13:25:00 and read 8229 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 71):
Can someone explain why when I fly WN California-PHX, we land on the north complex. When I fly DL/Skywest LAX-PHX, we land on the south complex?

Traffic management. PHX likes to keep as many arrivals as possible on the north side (to avoid runway crossings). I have a feeling that the time frame your DL/OO flight from LAX lands is a busy time, and since the flight plan from LAX takes you south of PHX, they keep you on that side.

It does get irksome sometimes though when they land ANC-PHX on the south side and get stuck for 45 minutes in the line on Romeo to ensure that everyone blows their connections, while letting an early MEX-PHX on the north side directly into the gate (yes, I've seen it happen).

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-05 13:28:51 and read 8222 times.

The DL 763 service started last night. Tonight according to the flight schd. there will be a 763 operating the redeye (1646) to ATL and another 763 staying overnight to make up the morning flight (846) to ATL.
Good amount of heavies in PHX tonight.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-05 13:43:21 and read 8213 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 72):
News stated today that they will not be back until next week. They will probably be in NY/NJ area until next week due to the amount of work.

Thanks for that, I'll be sure to try to get to the airport for some spotting   Someone keep me informed with arrival times, because I obviously can't see this on flightaware.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 74):
The DL 763 service started last night. Tonight according to the flight schd. there will be a 763 operating the redeye (1646) to ATL and another 763 staying overnight to make up the morning flight (846) to ATL.

I'll be taking the ATL 763 back to PHX when I return from thanksgiving. Can't wait! 
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 74):
Good amount of heavies in PHX tonight.

Any other airlines got heavies scheduled into PHX anytime soon?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-05 17:41:39 and read 8212 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 75):
Any other airlines got heavies scheduled into PHX anytime soon?

Besides BA, DL, and HA? No unless it is a NFL charter.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-06 10:41:34 and read 8240 times.

Well, there is still a C-17 over at the ANG

Does anyone know what was going on today at US about 9:00ish? I dropped my wife off for a flight and they strated to have their planes back up all over the place. They had three in the sapce between T-4 and T-3. They had another three to four to the west of T-3 and then there were two RJ's and a A-319 on one of the taxiways. They were causing a back-up everywhere. A poor DL 757 got stuck behind a A-319 for about 15 minutes and a WN 737-700 got stuck on the taxiway waiting for the RJ's and 319 to clear so he could get into the gate. They had some time where they did not launch anything and then at about 9:55 they came flooding out and that added to some of the back-ups. Another DL 757 had to backtrack and wait to simply get into the gate area.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 75):

Any other airlines got heavies scheduled into PHX anytime soon

You can also add FedEx and UPS to the list as FedEd fly's MD-11, DC-10 and A-300's in. I saw the UPS 767 rotate out today. Then you have the DHL 767 also.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-11-06 10:55:43 and read 8249 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 77):
Does anyone know what was going on today at US about 9:00ish? I dropped my wife off for a flight and they strated to have their planes back up all over the place. They had three in the sapce between T-4 and T-3. They had another three to four to the west of T-3 and then there were two RJ's and a A-319 on one of the taxiways. They were causing a back-up everywhere. A poor DL 757 got stuck behind a A-319 for about 15 minutes and a WN 737-700 got stuck on the taxiway waiting for the RJ's and 319 to clear so he could get into the gate. They had some time where they did not launch anything and then at about 9:55 they came flooding out and that added to some of the back-ups. Another DL 757 had to backtrack and wait to simply get into the gate area.

This is a pretty typical scene at this time of day for US. They have two large banks of flights that use most (if not all) of the gates on T4-north that run back-to-back. Because of the terminal configuration with piers, it is necessary for the ramp controllers to platoon arriving flights and departing flights to maximize the efficiency of the alleyways between piers.

So, as bank #1 begins to push, early arrivals for bank #2 are often forced to wait and several locations around the north airfield. If in west flow at the time, flights will first begin to stack up on both sides of the T3-north pier and then on the apron west of T3 on the north side. Additionally, the taxiways near Runway 26 can also be used, particulary for the RJs waiting to go onto the B piers.

As a frequent traveller to PHX several years ago, I quickly learned to avoid arriving in PHX at this bank if it could be avoided, particulary if I was connecting onwards to the west coast. It really only occurs for the mid-morning flights at PHX...most of which are now approximately one hour later departing/arriving PHX since DST lapsed last weekend.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-06 11:56:23 and read 8253 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 77):

Does anyone know what was going on today at US about 9:00ish?

The infamous Complex 3/4.

It's been happening since the America West days. Basically, a bunch of poorly trained monkeys (and that's being polite) in Tempe decided that it would be a great idea to schedule two departure banks (over 70 combined departures) within 50 minutes of each other. The problem is, there's only about 50 gates. They "schedule" the block times from the second bank a mere 10 minutes from the departing bank. Except that the scheduled block time is upwards of 30 minutes more than the actual air time. So the airplanes wind up going into the holding bays (or hold on Romeo), clogging everything up until Complex 3 pushes. Even on a good day when all taxiways are operational (Sierra is currently closed at the bridge), there's an average of about 15 airplanes that wind up holding for over 45 minutes due to alleyway and taxiway congestion. It's not uncommon to see a flight land 45 minutes early and block into the gate 30 minutes late at that time.

Yep... bunch of monkeys.

/rant

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-06 13:01:59 and read 8242 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 79):

That as got to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen. I went up to see what registration number on my wife's flight and they had all of the gates full. Even the RJ's were all full. They have to see that this is a stupid way to running the terminals as what happens with all the people that miss-connect. Also the effect on the other airlines has got to make them mad as well.

You are correct as I did see a A-320 sitting in the holding spot for 45 minutes.

Now I have a question about delayed flights. What happens if a WN or DL cannot reach their gate and then the next leg of the flight is delayed. Will this go against WN or DL or is there a special designation for excessive traffic delays as it is not the fault of the airline?

Also, why would they not cycle the arrival flight (or departures) to leave via, R and have the arrivals use T to at least keep a flow going.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-06 15:51:20 and read 8231 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 79):
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 77):

This is why we need to get people to allow Tempe to allow Sky Harbor to have simultaneous departures. This could easily be avoided if another runway was opened.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-06 22:14:01 and read 8231 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 80):
Also the effect on the other airlines has got to make them mad as well.

Screw the airlines, it makes the passengers mad! I've been delayed on the morning AS PDX-PHX flight many, many times. Nothing like landing 15 minutes early then getting an announcement from the cockpit: "well, uh folks, there are too many USAirways planes on the ground and they're blocking all our taxi routes. Until they move, we're stuck." It's happened to me when landing on the North side of the field and the South side.

It's even worse because I can sometimes see my car in the T2 garage from the plane. Talk about annoying!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: neveragain
Posted 2012-11-07 08:18:59 and read 8235 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 81):
This is why we need to get people to allow Tempe to allow Sky Harbor to have simultaneous departures. This could easily be avoided if another runway was opened.

Not really. The issue being discussed here regarding US Airways idling aircraft in hold bays and on active taixways doesn't have anything to do with lack of runway capacity to process arrivals or departures. Instead, this is an airline overscheduling issue related to its facility footprint (exacerbated by the pier-alleyway configuration of the north side of Terminal 4). Without being privy to the details of the US Airways scheduling department, I suspect that the close proximity of these two connecting complexes is the result of several factors, including being the arrival time at PHX for many early-morning originating flights on at outstations on both coasts as well as in the upper midwest.

In a broader context, there is no question that the restriction on dual-departures in east flow causes ground delays at PHX, particularly in the mornings.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 80):
Now I have a question about delayed flights. What happens if a WN or DL cannot reach their gate and then the next leg of the flight is delayed. Will this go against WN or DL or is there a special designation for excessive traffic delays as it is not the fault of the airline?

There isn't any sort of compensation due to WN or DL as a result of US-caused traffic delays if that is what you are suggesting. These types of delays happen to all airlines at all airports. As an example, when UA fails to promptly marshall in an CRJ at Gate F6 at ORD and it blocks pushback of a US flight at the adjacent US gate at F8, US does not receive compensation for UA (despite it being a factor entirely within UA's control). Or, if an AA flight is stuck in a holding pattern in the airspace outside of SFO waiting for arrival sequencing as a result of UA overscheduling of the stated runway capacity, AA is not entitled to compensation. PHX ground controllers do an excellent job of trying to minimize the number of taxiway blockages to at least keep circulation free for other carriers during these times. However, sometimes it just takes a bit longer for somebody to push, engine start, etc than was envisioned...

Quoting chrisair (Reply 82):
It's even worse because I can sometimes see my car in the T2 garage from the plane. Talk about annoying!

Agreed, it is annoying. Just like when your flight arrives early but there is no ground crew or gate agent to connect the loading bridge to the aircraft. Or all those other annoyances that accompany modern air travel...

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 80):
They have to see that this is a stupid way to running the terminals as what happens with all the people that miss-connect.

Fair point, although oftentimes flights have landed 15 minutes ahead of schedule and aren't materially late arriving at the gate despite passenger perception, especially when you really need to pee (a situation I have found myself in several times at PHX...  Wow!. However, I wouldn't think that there is a huge issue with connecting passengers missing their onward flight. If there was, the US would likely have tweaked the scheduling of flights to avoid this costly and customer-service damaging occurrence. I'm not saying misconnections don't occur, but I bet it is not as widespread as one might think from having observed the stack-up of US aircraft waiting for their gates to clear.

[Edited 2012-11-07 08:21:00]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-08 06:24:20 and read 8224 times.

On a side not it seems as if WN is pushing through a lot of their 800's in PHX

In the two hours I was spotting there was
N8302F
N8314F
N8319F
N8600F

Does anyone know why they do not have the WN and have opted for the four numerical and a F?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-08 09:34:46 and read 8204 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 84):
On a side not it seems as if WN is pushing through a lot of their 800's in PHX

I've noticed it too. I am still not use to seeing the WN color scheme on a 737-800.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-08 10:38:04 and read 8205 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 84):

Couldn't tell you why they chose F, but I believe the change was done to accommodate a new fleet numbering scheme.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-08 11:04:42 and read 8200 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 85):
I've noticed it too. I am still not use to seeing the WN color scheme on a 737-800.

Yeah me too, I there were two at the gate, so I did not notice them until they all left at about the same time. The funniest thing was there was a 300 taking off right before one of the 800's and that pilot kept that thing down low, but with a screaming T/O.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-08 12:15:42 and read 8215 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 84):
On a side not it seems as if WN is pushing through a lot of their 800's in PHX

From a PHX Departures and Arrivals website, a lot of these flights coming through are also new deliveries, with a/c being delivered directly to PHX. Strange, shouldn't they be delivered to DAL?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-08 12:24:05 and read 8209 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 88):
Strange, shouldn't they be delivered to DAL?

IIRC Dallas doesn't have a maintenance line for the 738 (yet) and the -800s don't make it to DAL (yet). They deliver them to LAS, MDW, BWI or PHX and they're put into service once they land. Remember, WN sends them up to PAE for wifi installation once they're delivered, so there isn't much else left to do with them once they're gone from PAE.

It's funny. With as much WN flying as I've done, I've yet to get a ride on the -800s.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-08 13:49:04 and read 8214 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 88):
From a PHX Departures and Arrivals website, a lot of these flights coming through are also new deliveries, with a/c being delivered directly to PHX.

I saw two of the 800's taxi in, but the other two were on the ground when I got there.

I looked one up on a database and it has been in service for four months.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-10 11:51:53 and read 8196 times.

According to my Ohio neighbor some of the C-5s and C-17s are to begin coming back sometime this week. Anyone know more about this?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-10 14:40:19 and read 8186 times.

There was one C-17 at the ANG from Travis AFB on Tuesday. I would surmise that they should be rotating back within the week. You might want to sound proof the apartment for the C-5 departure.

Here is a photo of the C-17

http://phxspotters.com/forums/index.php/topic,378.0.html

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-10 20:09:48 and read 8186 times.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...5/history/20121108/1455Z/KPHX/KONT
I don't know if anyone saw this but a few days back we had a WN flight with a failed engine return to Sky Harbor.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-10 21:39:19 and read 8191 times.

I just got done looking at the seat maps for F9's AZA-DEN and DEN-AZA from November 15-28 and it looks like Frontier will be profit able here.But for the first few days/weeks of december the cabin looks pretty remote.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-11 09:31:25 and read 8191 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 93):
I don't know if anyone saw this but a few days back we had a WN flight with a failed engine return to Sky Harbor.

Saw it on the news and forgot to look it up. They stated that the plane was 45 minutes out of PHX when it struck a bird. I was thinking that a bird at 30,000+ft was weird (but nothing unusual for the news to state) as well as it would of been closer to LA area than coming all the way back to PHX. Looking at the log it only took WN an hour and a half to swap out the plane.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 94):
I just got done looking at the seat maps for F9's AZA-DEN and DEN-AZA from November 15-28 and it looks like Frontier will be profit able here.But for the first few days/weeks of December the cabin looks pretty remote.

On the news they said that there is more demand for holiday flights and prices are skyrocketing. It is also a time thing with the dates. You have the Thanksgiving rush and then everyone goes back to school/work for three weeks and then travel again. I think a true test will be in the end of January and February when load are normally low.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2012-11-11 09:36:50 and read 8196 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 35):

CLT has double the flights than PHX so it makes up for it.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-11 17:17:34 and read 8190 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 95):
Saw it on the news and forgot to look it up. They stated that the plane was 45 minutes out of PHX when it struck a bird. I was thinking that a bird at 30,000+ft was weird (but nothing unusual for the news to state) as well as it would of been closer to LA area than coming all the way back to PHX. Looking at the log it only took WN an hour and a half to swap out the plane.

I think it was as soon as it took off, but they thought it wasn't anything serious.....
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=458c303f&opt=0

Apparently an engine shut down at 12,000 FT

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-11 17:26:10 and read 8187 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 97):
I think it was as soon as it took off, but they thought it wasn't anything serious.....

Agree, I was just stating how bad the media messed up the time. According to Flight aware it was a 23 minute flight out and back. It must of been a larger bird to be at that altitude.

Makes one wonder if it was really that bright of an idea to put a huge body of water directly in the flight path two miles to the east of the runway.

[Edited 2012-11-11 17:28:30]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-11 19:06:10 and read 8195 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 95):
On the news they said that there is more demand for holiday flights and prices are skyrocketing. It is also a time thing with the dates. You have the Thanksgiving rush and then everyone goes back to school/work for three weeks and then travel again. I think a true test will be in the end of January and February when load are normally low.

Will we see a downgrade to the E190 in those slow months?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-12 05:39:57 and read 8192 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 99):
Will we see a downgrade to the E190 in those slow months?

I would think so, I have seen the E-190 at PHX and think that the post holiday slowdown will remove one of the 319 in favor of the E-190.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-13 17:30:19 and read 8197 times.

Was just watching the local news this evening and they had this interesting story about how a US and AA merger will affect the local economy here in the PHX valley area.
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...n-us-airways-and-american-airlines

PLEASE NOTE: This is not leading into a merger discussion/rant, It is just talking about jobs and how it will affect the PHX area.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-13 19:13:19 and read 8211 times.

Quote:
Valley group: AZ economy would lose jobs with merger between US Airways and American Airlines



Well, I think this could be said without much argument. I'm really surprised nobody else here isn't raising any alarms about this.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-13 19:29:22 and read 8217 times.

Corporate: about 2,000 jobs

at the airport: about 4,000 jobs because PHX would be downsized.

This is why I am against the merger... Will be seeing a "Keep US AIR My US AIR" anytime soon?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-14 11:15:51 and read 8208 times.

It's a puff piece by the Scottsdale Chamber of Commerce... of course they're going to cast doom and gloom predictions.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 103):
Corporate: about 2,000 jobs

More like 500, to eliminate redundancies. The rest will move to DFW.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 103):
at the airport: about 4,000 jobs because PHX would be downsized.

Patently false. PHX is secure for the next 10 years as a hub... which is all you can realistically say about almost any hub, anywhere, any airline.

And even on the off chance someone at AA or US is completely retarded and shuts down the hub, someone else  coughsouthwestcough  will jump in and fill the void.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 102):

Well, I think this could be said without much argument. I'm really surprised nobody else here isn't raising any alarms about this.

Because the article is over-hyped garbage.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Sevensixtyseven
Posted 2012-11-14 12:07:29 and read 8194 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 101):

I find it interesting that they used a picture of a US 733...at least they got the airline and livery right.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-14 13:40:49 and read 8194 times.

I really think that this is going to be much to do about nothing. I think AA is going to come out of BK and not need US. If US try's to make a move as a hostile take-over, I think that will cause more problems. The biggest problem I see is US has a divided company with the East and West not being a combined company.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 102):

Well, I think this could be said without much argument. I'm really surprised nobody else here isn't raising any alarms about this.

Could be that it has been discussed to death.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 104):
It's a puff piece by the Scottsdale Chamber of Commerce... of course they're going to cast doom and gloom predictions.

They will all come in and try to "save" PHX from losing US. This is a business decision and they have nothing to do about it other than political grandstanding.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 104):

Patently false. PHX is secure for the next 10 years as a hub... which is all you can realistically say about almost any hub, anywhere, any airline.

And even on the off chance someone at AA or US is completely retarded and shuts down the hub, someone else coughsouthwestcough will jump in and fill the void.

Agree, also with the increase in population I really think that the demise of PHX is far over-hyped. WN would love to pick-up the slack for this void. I would also wonder if DL would increase their flights into PHX also?

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 105):

I find it interesting that they used a picture of a US 733...at least they got the airline and livery right.

Well, they still do have the 737 flying in the East.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-14 14:01:50 and read 8194 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 104):

Thank you for the proper numbers, I just going off of what the article said.
WN would pick up the slack but how much of the slack would they pick up? US serves markets out of PHX that WN does not fly to.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 106):
I think AA is going to come out of BK and not need US.


     

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-14 15:09:40 and read 8194 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 107):
US serves markets out of PHX that WN does not fly to.

Most are in Mexico, Canada, or Hawaii. WN could conceivably pick up the slack in Mexico, although I believe most of that traffic is connecting anyway so you probably wouldn't see them replicate the frequencies that US currently offers. On the domestic side, I don't think many of the cities that US serves exclusively (mostly Express destinations) are surviving on local traffic numbers either, so whatever US was carrying there could be picked up by connecting through other hubs in the region. Someone like ZK could probably handle the intra-AZ stuff. I think you'd see WN incrementally add service where they previously competed with US, and add service to the others where they already have a presence.

The few Canadian destinations that US serves are also already served by AC and WS who could easily fill the gap with an extra flight or two. LIH and KOA are probably the two destinations ex-PHX that no one would bother with for a while (I could see G4 taking an interest with them out of AZA), with HA increasing HNL and adding OGG.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: stasisLAX
Posted 2012-11-14 17:22:01 and read 8195 times.

PHX conducted a "media preview" this week of the new 44th Street Transfer Station and the new terminal 4/east economy parking lot via the new "Sky Train" As someone who utilized Metro Light Rail to get to and from Sky Harbor airport, this is very very good news!

Source: http://skyharbor.com/pressreleases/SkyTrain_FirstLook44thSt.html

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2012-11-14 17:43:11 and read 8192 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 104):
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 103):
Corporate: about 2,000 jobs

More like 500, to eliminate redundancies. The rest will move to DFW.

More likely "The rest will be offered a position at the new HQ/DFW" but how many will be willing to move to Texas (what kind of relocation package will be offered?) and how many will just not want to leave Arizona (family, spouse's employment, loss on sale of residence, etc.)?

It would be nice to think that only 500 out of 2000 employees would be out of a job but reality is this number would most probably be a lot higher.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-14 21:39:56 and read 8184 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 103):
This is why I am against the merger... Will be seeing a "Keep US AIR My US AIR" anytime soon?

I hope so  

How many people are based in the tempe HQters? How much of that building is occupied?


PHX related question: When does the BA go daily?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-14 22:12:03 and read 8185 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 111):
PHX related question: When does the BA go daily?

I believe December 6th..

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-16 19:01:23 and read 8181 times.

Did anybody head out to AZA yesterday or today to get some shots of F9?? If so please share  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-17 12:43:54 and read 8174 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 113):
Did anybody head out to AZA yesterday or today to get some shots of F9?? If so please share

Is the flight daily? If so I'll head out there sometime later this week when I get back. I missed it yesterday  
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 112):
I believe December 6th..

Thanks

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-11-17 14:15:16 and read 8178 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 114):
Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 113):
Did anybody head out to AZA yesterday or today to get some shots of F9?? If so please share

Is the flight daily? If so I'll head out there sometime later this week when I get back. I missed it yesterday

F9 DEN-AZA is daily, it arrives at 3PM MST and departs back to DEN at 3:45PM. I wasn't able to be there on the 15th but I am going to try to go out to AZA tomorrow and get a few pictures of it. I will post some of my shots if I do end up making it out there.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-18 21:05:57 and read 8176 times.

According to my Japanese professor last week, Sedona has seen a large influx of Japanese tourists over last 2 years, most of them connecting through LAX to PHX. A friend of mine from Japan went to Sky Harbor and took a shuttle from the airport to Sedona, and she told me that it was filled with Japanese people.

I wonder, if AZ marketed Sky Harbor more towards Japanese tourists in this way, JL/NH could sustain this service to NRT.

A number of my friends, when they come here for the first time, say they make it a priority to visit Sedona. They then report to their friends back in Japan, and what not. Social Media.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-19 14:13:37 and read 8163 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 116):
According to my Japanese professor last week, Sedona has seen a large influx of Japanese tourists over last 2 years, most of them connecting through LAX to PHX. A friend of mine from Japan went to Sky Harbor and took a shuttle from the airport to Sedona, and she told me that it was filled with Japanese people.

I wonder, if AZ marketed Sky Harbor more towards Japanese tourists in this way, JL/NH could sustain this service to NRT.

A number of my friends, when they come here for the first time, say they make it a priority to visit Sedona. They then report to their friends back in Japan, and what not. Social Media.

The problem is that this is observable data from a person that is just using their perception of what they have seen/heard. Until they do a deep analysis on the cost/benefit ratio, I do not think a Japanese airline will come direct to PHX.

Now that said, could it happen in the future? Yes, if the dollar stays low compared to the Yen. If that were to happen, then the possibility of this occurring is greater as the tourist may want to see the "American West".

Also I do not know if they could fill a 777, 747 or other heavy all of the time. I think this is more of a situation of waiting for the right aircraft to fill the spot.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-19 15:59:53 and read 8171 times.

It confuses me very much how a place such as BOS with 28 million passengers per year can get so much International flights.Then there is PHX with 40 million has so little. That is a 12 , million gap. That's about the population of Ohio.

In march PHX will become the largest airport in the United states without Asia service. So i think this would mean Asian carriers may start looking into the valley??. Lets keep our fingers crossed!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-19 17:00:10 and read 8170 times.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...nix-mesa-allegiant-growth/136351/1

HAs everyone seen this? it says AZA would love to have VX service. That's ridiculous since VX is more interested in the more major airports but if you think real hard than you can see that VX could Possibly,possibly make profit out of AZA since their entire route network is California based. So a AZA-California would be much better than a PHX-California because those routes have a lot of competition. But again it would never happen.  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: BA744PHX
Posted 2012-11-19 17:17:29 and read 8168 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 119):
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...nix-mesa-allegiant-growth/136351/1

HAs everyone seen this? it says AZA would love to have VX service. That's ridiculous since VX is more interested in the more major airports but if you think real hard than you can see that VX could Possibly,possibly make profit out of AZA since their entire route network is California based. So a AZA-California would be much better than a PHX-California because those routes have a lot of competition. But again it would never happen.

This is very old news and will never happen. If VX starts Phoenix it will be out of PHX

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-19 19:24:34 and read 8162 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 117):
Now that said, could it happen in the future? Yes, if the dollar stays low compared to the Yen. If that were to happen, then the possibility of this occurring is greater as the tourist may want to see the "American West".

I'm guessing if anything, it will be an Asian airline that comes in here. I cannot ever see US at this time starting Asian service, as the East/West merge has yet to be completed   

That said though once it does get settled, maybe.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 117):
Also I do not know if they could fill a 777, 747 or other heavy all of the time. I think this is more of a situation of waiting for the right aircraft to fill the spot.

JL nor NH operate the 747 on international routes, but when JL came here for that charter in March, they had the 77W. It was such a beautiful sight to see.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 118):
In march PHX will become the largest airport in the United states without Asia service. So i think this would mean Asian carriers may start looking into the valley??. Lets keep our fingers crossed!

I know PHX airport board and the chambers of commerce are "actively seeking such service" according to Wiki, but how "active" they're seeking this service, I don't know.

If they want, I could go to Japan and act as some sort of ambassador   (anyone got connections with the higher ups at PHX?)

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 119):
HAs everyone seen this? it says AZA would love to have VX service.
Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 120):
This is very old news and will never happen. If VX starts Phoenix it will be out of PHX

I disagree, I think if it's an O&D thing, then VX will be really successful at AZA, based off what is going on over there.....but I agree with an earlier post-unless development picks up again (which it seems like it may be beginning to,) I don't think we need 2 airports here

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-19 23:27:50 and read 8168 times.

Hey Phoenicians- I have a buddy who said he may be able to make a banner that would say "Keep US My US"
..... He apparently has family who worked for US for a while. In reference to this earlier post...

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 103):
Will be seeing a "Keep US AIR My US AIR" anytime soon?

How many people would actually be down for this? And if it's unfurled at the terminal 4 garage....how much trouble could we get in?   

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-11-20 00:20:24 and read 8158 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 121):
I know PHX airport board and the chambers of commerce are "actively seeking such service" according to Wiki, but how "active" they're seeking this service, I don't know.

Well, okay...... DEN actively sought an NRT n/s route for about the last 10 years or so, and a high of incentives seemed to be stagnated I do believe around $5M - $6M for a longest while. Then they finally got really seriously active and the kitty climbed up to $22M, and UA announces the DEN-NRT n/s route.

Anyone think that PHX can be that active?


 

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-20 02:13:24 and read 8157 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 121):
I'm guessing if anything, it will be an Asian airline that comes in here. I cannot ever see US at this time starting Asian service, as the East/West merge has yet to be completed

I don't think the crew merge is the big limiting factor. In terms of aircraft, it's not as if they would be isolated here; even if you had merged flight crews, they'd still have to rotate aircraft in from the other hubs. So from an aircraft perspective, you'd basically end up with the same result either way. The crewing issue obviously leaves a lot to be desired, although if the FAs can ratify something in the next few months, that leaves only the pilots which would further cut back on any excess deadheading/flying by crews to operate the long-haul segment. And even if both flight crew groups remained separated, they could mirror the same rotation they used for HNL. Would it be a perfect situation? Not really, but were the opportunity great enough for a PHX-Asia flight, they could find a way to make it work given the labor circumstances.

Quoting point2point (Reply 123):
Well, okay...... DEN actively sought an NRT n/s route for about the last 10 years or so, and a high of incentives seemed to be stagnated I do believe around $5M - $6M for a longest while. Then they finally got really seriously active and the kitty climbed up to $22M, and UA announces the DEN-NRT n/s route.

Does anyone know if PHX is still kicking in $$ for BA? I seem to recall that they had offered something like $500k back when they started service here and some sort of guarantee to cover a portion of the marketing costs.

[Edited 2012-11-20 02:20:48]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-20 07:20:33 and read 8155 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 122):
Hey Phoenicians- I have a buddy who said he may be able to make a banner that would say "Keep US My US"
..... He apparently has family who worked for US for a while. In reference to this earlier post...

Its going to be a little different.

With DL, nobody in management or labor wanted to merge with US so the whole company rose together to fight it.

With US, management is begging to merge with AA and there is no unification in labor one way or the other. Therefore, there is no solidarity in the company and management will get what they want anyway.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-20 13:08:26 and read 8141 times.

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 120):

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 119):
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...nix-mesa-allegiant-growth/136351/1

HAs everyone seen this? it says AZA would love to have VX service. That's ridiculous since VX is more interested in the more major airports but if you think real hard than you can see that VX could Possibly,possibly make profit out of AZA since their entire route network is California based. So a AZA-California would be much better than a PHX-California because those routes have a lot of competition. But again it would never happen.

This is very old news and will never happen. If VX starts Phoenix it will be out of PHX

Especially with their current situation with finances, I do not see them starting any new routes soon.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 122):
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 103):
Will be seeing a "Keep US AIR My US AIR" anytime soon?

How many people would actually be down for this? And if it's unfurled at the terminal 4 garage....how much trouble could we get in?  

I know I was the one that said that but I am not getting involved in any causes whatsoever.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 125):

        

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: bjorn14
Posted 2012-11-20 13:35:29 and read 8159 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
Thought you guys might be interested in this. Below are the largest international O&D markets to PHX from 2011:

1) Calgary - 480 PDEW
2) Toronto - 335 PDEW
3) Vancouver - 310 PDEW
4) Edmonton - 295 PDEW
5) London - 169 PDEW
6) Mexico City - 149 PDEW
7) Winnipeg - 128 PDEW
8) Los Cabos - 124 PDEW
9) Guadalajara - 105 PDEW
10) Montreal - 99 PDEW
11) Cancun - 97 PDEW
12) Puerto Vallarta - 88 PDEW
13) Mazatlan - 86 PDEW
14) Paris - 63 PDEW
15) Saskatoon - 57 PDEW

What no PPE (AZ beach)?   

Anybody heard anything about the AZA expansion?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-20 15:05:35 and read 8154 times.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 127):
Anybody heard anything about the AZA expansion?

Well all I know is the new terminal is supposedly under construction;

I haven't been over there yet  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-20 17:30:12 and read 8134 times.

New terminal at AZA is done.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-20 20:31:40 and read 8105 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 121):
I disagree, I think if it's an O&D thing, then VX will be really successful at AZA,

If VX ever comes to Arizona, it will be PHX. What would be the point of using AZA besides satisfying aviation fans.

Quoting point2point (Reply 123):

Anyone think that PHX can be that active?
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 121):
I'm guessing if anything, it will be an Asian airline that comes in here.

I agree. The question is whether Arizona potentially switching from being a Star alliance state to Oneworld would influence the carrier that opens the route... JL or NH. Post merger, any hope of an Asian route on AA-US metal out of PHX dies as LAX will assume all Asian traffic.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 111):
How many people are based in the tempe HQters? How much of that building is occupied?

As a loyal AA flyer I would love to have the "American Airlines" name on the HQ. As far as the building is concerned, the best outcome we can hope for is the AA sign on the building with a reduced presence from the post merger airline.

I also wonder what would become of the US hangar at PHX.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-20 21:21:35 and read 8098 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 130):
I also wonder what would become of the US hangar at PHX.

The bigger question is what would happen to US Airways Center, also known as America West Arena.  

As an extremely loyal PSA flyer, the loss of the USAir* name would be cause for celebration. As much as I enjoy seeing that PSA plane from time to time, seeing it painted over would also make me happy. It's an insult to PSA to have their livery and smile on a USAir plane.

*Please note that I harbor no ill feelings towards America West. It was sad to see their name lost in their merger.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-20 21:38:40 and read 8099 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 131):
The bigger question is what would happen to US Airways Center, also known as America West Arena.

I imagine that US has already paid for the naming of the arena, so it will most likely remain US Airways Center for a couple of years or at least until the merger is complete. After that, I wonder if AA will be interested in spending money on naming another arena.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 131):
Please note that I harbor no ill feelings towards America West. It was sad to see their name lost in their merger.

As a mostly PHX based flyer, I was sad to see the HP name disappear also. Never felt the love for US. However, if the merger goes through, I will be glad to know that whats left of HP will be part of AA.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-21 09:29:44 and read 8044 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 130):
I agree. The question is whether Arizona potentially switching from being a Star alliance state to Oneworld would influence the carrier that opens the route... JL or NH. Post merger, any hope of an Asian route on AA-US metal out of PHX dies as LAX will assume all Asian traffic.

Do you think if the merger happens that either airline would want to come here anyway, with all the talk of a pulldown/hub closure?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-11-21 10:58:21 and read 8013 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 128):
Well all I know is the new terminal is supposedly under construction;

I haven't been over there yet

They are going to be using the current terminal facility for a while yet, the proposed brand new terminal won't be built for a few years, certainly not until the new freeway is built on the east side of the airport.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-11-21 11:00:07 and read 8016 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 121):
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 117):
Also I do not know if they could fill a 777, 747 or other heavy all of the time. I think this is more of a situation of waiting for the right aircraft to fill the spot.

JL nor NH operate the 747 on international routes, but when JL came here for that charter in March, they had the 77W. It was such a beautiful sight to see.

If JL or NH start NRT-PHX it would certainly be with a 787, anything else is just to large for the market but even then its a long shot. US would have to use the A350, as their current fleet does not have the capability to reach NRT from PHX.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-21 11:51:47 and read 7999 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 132):

I imagine that US has already paid for the naming of the arena, so it will most likely remain US Airways Center for a couple of years or at least until the merger is complete. After that, I wonder if AA will be interested in spending money on naming another arena.

Doubt it as they already have AA center in Miami

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 133):
Do you think if the merger happens that either airline would want to come here anyway, with all the talk of a pulldown/hub closure?

The ONLY way I could see this happening is if there was a limitation to gates at LAX. I think the biggest problem with PHX is not Phoenix in general. It is that it is only 350 miles from LAX and further south of DEN for the maximal north/south exposure. The interesting thing would be that IF a flight was given to PHX and it was successful (like the BA flights), would they keep it even after a LAX expansion was completed.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-21 18:22:02 and read 7935 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 136):
Doubt it as they already have AA center in Miami

I don't think having one sponsored arena eliminates the possibility of another since they have the Dallas arena as well. The question becomes does AA want to remain PHX's hometown airline.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 136):
I think the biggest problem with PHX is not Phoenix in general. It is that it is only 350 miles from LAX...

I don't think the proximity to LAX is the issue, as SAN is closer to LAX and will soon have JL service next year. I think PHX's biggest problem is market viability(lower yield and traffic). Any service from Japan will probably depend heavily on japanese tourists.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 133):
Do you think if the merger happens that either airline would want to come here anyway, with all the talk of a pulldown/hub closure?

If the market can support a japanese route, I see no reason why either airline wouldn't want to fly here irregardless of PHX's hub status. That said, LAX and DFW make poor hubs for intra-western traffic so PHX will remain.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-21 19:35:05 and read 7918 times.

Sometimes i wonder: Had America West not merged, Would there be more traffic coming through PHX? more competition?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-21 20:51:25 and read 7899 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 138):

Sometimes i wonder: Had America West not merged, Would there be more traffic coming through PHX? more competition?

I doubt they would have survived past 2008 without the merger. By Kirby's own admission, there was a bankruptcy plan ready to file in 2005 had the merger with US not gone through.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-21 20:52:36 and read 7905 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 135):
If JL or NH start NRT-PHX it would certainly be with a 787, anything else is just to large for the market but even then its a long shot. US would have to use the A350, as their current fleet does not have the capability to reach NRT from PHX.

   I don't know though what the 350 is going to do if it comes to PHX. It all depends on the future.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 137):
Any service from Japan will probably depend heavily on japanese tourists.

Well like I stated above there's been an influx recently, and more Japanese businessmen are coming into PHX as companies begin to expand.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 138):
Sometimes i wonder: Had America West not merged, Would there be more traffic coming through PHX? more competition?

What if HP merged with a different company, say, along the likes of NW, DL, AA, or UA?   

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-21 21:06:29 and read 7904 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 138):
Sometimes i wonder: Had America West not merged, Would there be more traffic coming through PHX? more competition?

I doubt it. HP had trouble expanding into other markets and were losing money. I think they would have remained a niche airline like AS.

Regarding competition, back then there were two players in PHX... HP and WN. Today its the same with US and WN. That tells me that there isn't room for another significant airline presence. PHX isn't LA or NY.

However, if HP had stayed alone(and survived) they probably would have been more aligned with OW. Before the merger, HP had a codeshare with BA, QF and RJ. I could have seen CX,JL, and eventually AA as partners as well.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-21 21:11:14 and read 7903 times.

I Really liked how HP had more Phoenix-Other cities in Arizona routes. Now its just Yuma, Tucson and flagstaff

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-21 22:14:21 and read 7888 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 140):
and more Japanese businessmen are coming into PHX as companies begin to expand.

Besides the auto industry, what japanese companies have a presence in Arizona? I know there are some British firms here, hence the BA loads.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-22 01:23:51 and read 7884 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 142):

I Really liked how HP had more Phoenix-Other cities in Arizona routes. Now its just Yuma, Tucson and flagstaff

Aside from Prescott, Kingman, and Sierra Vista, what other cities in Arizona are there that would benefit from air service today?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-22 09:40:04 and read 7840 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 143):
Besides the auto industry, what japanese companies have a presence in Arizona? I know there are some British firms here, hence the BA loads.

Intel, a few computer companies (one of my friends works for them) a few banks, a trading company based in scottsdale that a different friend works at, a branch of some telcom company (I forgot the name but they do some maintenance on cell towers and cell tower tech)
Just to name a few  


I heard a rumor recently that either Jan Brewer or the Mayor of Phoenix was going to make a trip to Hyogo (sister coty of PHX) for some trade conferences....rumor has it they're going to Tokyo too to see if JL/NH wants to begin service here.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-22 12:19:04 and read 7818 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 145):
Intel

Intel is a US based company. Their HQ is in Santa Clara, CA.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-22 18:30:53 and read 7775 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 146):
Intel is a US based company. Their HQ is in Santa Clara, CA.

With a bunch of Japanese employees.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-22 21:16:29 and read 7749 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 147):
With a bunch of Japanese employees.

GM has chinese employees in China, but that doesn't make Cadillac a Chinese company.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-22 21:21:08 and read 7753 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 148):
GM has chinese employees in China, but that doesn't make Cadillac a Chinese company.

Ok we're splitting hairs here, but you see my point. There's a growing demand for asian service, and a further demand for service that doesn't involve connecting at LAX.


Back on topic: Does the National 747 come in regularly, and at what time, and does it appear on Flightaware?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-22 21:32:35 and read 7748 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 149):
Back on topic: Does the National 747 come in regularly, and at what time, and does it appear on Flightaware?

No, it and a World MD-11 were under contract by UPS last year to provide extra lift out of SDF and ONT leading up to Christmas. In years past they've used Southern Air and Atlas 747s, but that National 747 was really something to see.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-22 22:33:52 and read 7737 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 144):
Aside from Prescott, Kingman, and Sierra Vista, what other cities in Arizona are there that would benefit from air service today?

Sounds like Laughlin is seeking some type of service, Lake Havasu. Or maybe someplace new where the population has been growing: Casa Grande,Safford,Globe, Nogalas and such

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-23 00:56:38 and read 7743 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 151):
Or maybe someplace new where the population has been growing: Casa Grande,Safford,Globe, Nogalas and such

Casa Grande? The place that's a 45 minute drive from Sky Harbor?  

I've been to the Nogales airport. It's a small shack. Certainly not a place for commercial flights. If anything, I'd expect Great Lakes to do it if they could get some EAS money.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-23 01:06:12 and read 7735 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 151):
Or maybe someplace new where the population has been growing: Casa Grande,Safford,Globe, Nogalas and such

Casa Grande has a population of 48k and sits between PHX and TUS so there's no justification for an operation that will mostly use expensive RJ's.

Nogales(US side) has a low population and has lost much of its tourism appeal due to drug cartel and human smuggling violence. Globe and Safford, with sub-10k population, are far too small to support air service.

Years ago, before the HP-US merger, Doug Parker mentioned that they examined the possibility of more service within Arizona, but found the economics didn't work. I don't think much has changed since then.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-23 06:22:06 and read 7720 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 145):
I heard a rumor recently that either Jan Brewer or the Mayor of Phoenix was going to make a trip to Hyogo (sister coty of PHX) for some trade conferences....rumor has it they're going to Tokyo too to see if JL/NH wants to begin service here.

Oh, God no......

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 151):
Or maybe someplace new where the population has been growing: Casa Grande,Safford,Globe, Nogalas and such

Casa Grande - 45 mins south of PHX
Globe/Miami - Possible with the mines if they could get a contract.
Nogalas - No, 40 minutes south of TUC and do not have the population

I would say they would go to the corner Douglas - Having lived in SE Arizona it is a hour to Sierra Vista and another to TUC.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 137):
I don't think the proximity to LAX is the issue, as SAN is closer to LAX and will soon have JL service next year. I think PHX's biggest problem is market viability(lower yield and traffic). Any service from Japan will probably depend heavily on japanese tourists.

Agree, but I also wonder if JL would take a page from BA and do a one stop to PHX to see if there is a market. Such as SAN-PHX and turn it back to SAN to go back to PHX. I also was stating the fact that there are so many flights into LAX that a stand alone flight to PHX would not be fiscally smart. While people love a direct flight, sometimes it is just not financially possible.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-23 11:07:34 and read 7670 times.

Well i meant Casa grande -somewhere else (even though that will never happen) not a PHX-CGZ

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-11-23 21:03:42 and read 7606 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 154):
Agree, but I also wonder if JL would take a page from BA and do a one stop to PHX to see if there is a market. Such as SAN-PHX and turn it back to SAN to go back to PHX.


Don't count on that strategy. Even BA didn't do any tag-ons in the several years between their various SAN-LON nonstops even though the market certainly existed; tag-ons are just not economically feasible these days.

Keep in mind that the BA flights involved with the LAX/PHX-SAN tag-ons in the past were 747s and DC-10s -- with more seats to fill, back when all cities involved had less traffic, plus nonstop SAN-LON was not really an option then (operations-wise.)

Another factor is that with the 787 (that will be flying SAN-NRT starting in about a week) and it's relatively small capacity, cx would probably not really be able to split destinations. (Judging from how JL has handled several aspects of their new route, I personally think they are counting on more than enough traffic between SAN and Tokyo to fill the flight.)

When the cx feel the traffic is there between the Valley and Asia, someone will jump in and start it. (IF Phoenix adds some sort of subsidies to the equation, that will obviously change things and might speed the natural progression up a bit.)

bb

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-24 01:30:27 and read 7568 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 155):
Well i meant Casa grande -somewhere else (even though that will never happen) not a PHX-CGZ

CGZ to anywhere in Arizona other than PHX or maybe TUS makes even less economic sense. The problem for Arizona is that every town other than PHX, TUS, YUM and FLG are too small in market size to support non hub routes.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 154):
I would say they would go to the corner Douglas - Having lived in SE Arizona it is a hour to Sierra Vista and another to TUC.

Another one shack airport.   

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-24 04:58:54 and read 7557 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 157):
Another one shack airport.

Ever been to Bisbee? OUCH....

Quoting SANFan (Reply 156):
Don't count on that strategy. Even BA didn't do any tag-ons in the several years between their various SAN-LON nonstops even though the market certainly existed; tag-ons are just not economically feasible these days.

Keep in mind that the BA flights involved with the LAX/PHX-SAN tag-ons in the past were 747s and DC-10s -- with more seats to fill, back when all cities involved had less traffic, plus nonstop SAN-LON was not really an option then (operations-wise.)

Another factor is that with the 787 (that will be flying SAN-NRT starting in about a week) and it's relatively small capacity, cx would probably not really be able to split destinations. (Judging from how JL has handled several aspects of their new route, I personally think they are counting on more than enough traffic between SAN and Tokyo to fill the flight.)

When the cx feel the traffic is there between the Valley and Asia, someone will jump in and start it. (IF Phoenix adds some sort of subsidies to the equation, that will obviously change things and might speed the natural progression up a bit.)

True, I was just thinking that when BA did the PHX-SAN route that it was it was seeing the need/want for a flight to PHX. The difficult part, as you stated, is that a 787 will have so many fewer seats. The 787 will allow airlines to have longer reach and go into smaller/marginal markets.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-24 08:19:47 and read 7531 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 149):

I'm curious, what size do you think the PHX-Asia market is?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-24 09:08:50 and read 7520 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 159):
I'm curious, what size do you think the PHX-Asia market is?

In my opinion, I cannot really give a solid number. My numbers are based off of the people I meet here in the valley. I know that there are literally 10s of thousands, or around that number, that have some connection to ASU, however: be it students, parents, employees, teachers, what have you.

The Japanese population is small but every time I go somewhere involving Japanese culture, I see about 100 people I have never seen before; and I do cultural activities about once a month. This is also notwithstanding the Japanese students at ASU, which this year, there's a high amount.

In terms of employees, I have 3 different friends at 3 different companies here in AZ that are Japanese companies with a valley office. Not sure the size of the companies but they have presence both Japan and here. One of my friends there said that his company chose Phoenix over LA simply because it's LA- overcrowded and inefficient.

To fully answer your question, I'd need to ask a few of my professors.....when I get back to the valley next week  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-24 11:38:02 and read 7499 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 160):

Allow me to save you the trouble my friend.  

The daily total from PHX over the Pacific is 163 PDEW (at least it was in 2011). Of that, about 29 passengers is bound for Australia or New Zealand. That leaves a total of 134 PDEW from PHX to Asia.

The largest market is NRT with a daily number of 26. Followed by ICN with 20 and MNL with 18.

The biggest challenge is going to be yields, not loads. PHX-Asia yields are lower than LAS-Asia yields and LAS-Asia is roughly 450% larger. A better comparison might be DEN-Asia as its yields are only a little higher than LAS-Asia, but DEN-Asia is 225% larger than PHX-Asia.

This all said, could a carrier with ties to US come in and fill a plane to PHX? No doubt they could. The question is what kind of profit could be had. That is what Im unsure of.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: BA744PHX
Posted 2012-11-24 11:53:26 and read 7495 times.

From
http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

Top 10 Asian markets out of PHX O&D both directions
Tokyo - 19,559
Seoul - 15,529
Manila - 12,019
Shanghai - 10,314
Delhi - 10,221
Mumbai - 8,231
Ho Chi Minh City - 8,005
Bangalore - 7,729
Beijing - 7,526
Taipei - 7,496


Top Asian Countries out of PHX O&D both directions
India - 41,700
China - 28,500
Japan - 27,707
South Korea - 15,997
Philippines - 12,836
Australia - 11,046

Those 6 counties comes to 137,786 a year, 189 per direction daily

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-24 12:56:45 and read 7466 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 161):
This all said, could a carrier with ties to US come in and fill a plane to PHX? No doubt they could. The question is what kind of profit could be had. That is what Im unsure of.
Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 162):

If NH wanted to experiment and if US wanted to codeshare, I'm sure that something can be pulled off here.

In business, i think the old adage is if you build it, and advertise it extensively, they will come  

I think an asian flight could also bring more business from Asia to the valley, which will result in more seats filled and the yields being raised. Of course, the airport will have to compromise to make sure that the asian service is not losing money due to fees at the airport.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-24 14:25:56 and read 7438 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 163):
I think an asian flight could also bring more business from Asia to the valley, which will result in more seats filled and the yields being raised. Of course, the airport will have to compromise to make sure that the asian service is not losing money due to fees at the airport.

No doubt there would be some market stimulation. It can range anywhere from 5-50%.

In the case of PHX-Asia, a 10-15% stimulation is probably about right, but that would only be for the destination on the Pacific side (in this case probably NRT). If a PHX-NRT flight materialized, then you might see that PHX-NRT O&D go from 26 to 35-40 PDEW. However, new nonstop flights dont tend to do much for other destinations in the same continent other than the area served. For example, I doubt a PHX-NRT flight would stimulate the PHX-HKG or PHX-ICN market. Regardless of a connection in NRT, LAX, or SFO, those people would still have a connection to make.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-24 14:47:30 and read 7415 times.

One would also have to wonder what reason they are coming to PHX. If it is business, then that would be a stable income, but tourist are varied on the exchange rate and the strength and weakness of the dollar, Until the greater Phoenix area has a more diverse economy, we will not see much more in international traffic.

PHX also has LAS taking some of those tourist dollars. It is a lot closer to go and see the Grand Canyon from Vegas than from Phoenix.

I also think the best thing for an expansion is the next generation aircraft that have a lower operational cost and do not have the massive amounts of seats.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 163):
In business, i think the old adage is if you build it, and advertise it extensively, they will come

I am old enough to remember when BA and LH both flew into PHX. One survived and one did not, but they had to survive the lean times. Now BA chargers a premium on their flight out of PHX.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 163):
I think an asian flight could also bring more business from Asia to the valley, which will result in more seats filled and the yields being raised. Of course, the airport will have to compromise to make sure that the asian service is not losing money due to fees at the airport.

That is the big question of how much will Phoenix/Arizona pay to have the privilege of a flight to an Asian city. I do not see a huge package to any airline to fly into PHX, especially with the future of US at PHX in the air.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-24 21:13:13 and read 7341 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 165):
I am old enough to remember when BA and LH both flew into PHX.

Considering that LH ended the service back in 2003 I would hope you were older than 10 years.  
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 165):
One survived and one did not,

The UK business presence also helped BA. I'm not aware of any particular German business in Arizona.

In addition, wouldn't BA have a slight advantage over LH, as BA has UK/Ireland traffic and can capture continental pax while LH would have a hard time luring UK pax to backtrack to FRA without tempting pricing.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-25 00:01:50 and read 7305 times.

If y'all want a shack airport, go check out Tombstone Airport. There are no buildings at all.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-25 07:51:08 and read 7273 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 166):
Considering that LH ended the service back in 2003 I would hope you were older than 10 years.

Yeah, I also am old enough to remember the new terminal 3 and flying Hughes Airwest. Also the days of DC-10, 727, DC-9, and L-1011's

Quoting chrisair (Reply 167):
If y'all want a shack airport, go check out Tombstone Airport. There are no buildings at all.

Is that the strip south of town? I was driving back to Bisbee once and saw a 170 sitting there getting ready for take-off.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 166):
The UK business presence also helped BA. I'm not aware of any particular German business in Arizona.

In addition, wouldn't BA have a slight advantage over LH, as BA has UK/Ireland traffic and can capture continental pax while LH would have a hard time luring UK pax to backtrack to FRA without tempting pricing.

There are a few German companies. I think that they have a mining presence here in AZ. I agree about UK passengers backtracking to LH for flight, but one would/could state that people in the eastern part of Europe would rather go through Germany than all the way to England.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-25 19:36:22 and read 7179 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 168):
Also the days of DC-10, 727, DC-9, and L-1011's

Fortunately/unfortunately, I am old enough to remember those days as well.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 168):
I agree about UK passengers backtracking to LH for flight, but one would/could state that people in the eastern part of Europe would rather go through Germany than all the way to England.

I don't understand what you mean "all the way to England". Looking at a route like SOF-PHX, LHR is fairly close to the flight path. Or are you referring to a cultural relationship between Germany and eastern Europe?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-25 21:32:37 and read 7155 times.

Well to preview an upcoming trip report, my widebody flight from ATL-PHX was nice. Cross-wind landing. Always epic.

The pilots let me snag a cockpit shot today as well. Always a class act when you get to chat with the pilots while photographing their office.

That flight was overbooked too, apparently. There's some talk of a 764 coming in sometime over christmas for the holiday rush.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-26 09:25:42 and read 7080 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 170):

Last flight was last night for the 763 for a while. Hope there are no bad pictures of me   (I worked that flight last night)

Where did you the hear the possibility of a 764 might be coming into PHX? I believe there will be two ATL flights during the Christmas rush but a 764 would really mix things up.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-26 09:47:19 and read 7077 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 171):
Where did you the hear the possibility of a 764 might be coming into PHX? I believe there will be two ATL flights during the Christmas rush but a 764 would really mix things up.

DL pilot I was chatting with while taking a photo of the cockpit.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 171):
Last flight was last night for the 763 for a while. Hope there are no bad pictures of me (I worked that flight last night)

Well in that case, please excuse the self-gloss:
http://i49.tinypic.com/24cza0i.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/wgt5xs.jpg

See yourself?  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: osubuckeyes
Posted 2012-11-26 21:45:56 and read 6974 times.

Could the possibility of a DL 764 be for the up-gauges for the college bowl season. If not it will be exciting to see what comes to the valley this winter with some high profile teams in town. Likely Oregon vs KSU or Oklahoma.

Also what is the probability that DL's CVG flight gets cut? I heard someone at the airline talking about it, thought probably not a super credible source.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-11-26 22:34:37 and read 6965 times.

Does anyone know anything about the DL 763 that just departed for ANC? DAL9970 I believe? I am at work on the WN side of the airport and just watched it. Clearly a charter of some kind.

[Edited 2012-11-26 22:38:20]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-26 23:51:47 and read 6949 times.

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 173):
Also what is the probability that DL's CVG flight gets cut? I heard someone at the airline talking about it, thought probably not a super credible source.

It was "cut" with the exception of a month staying over for spring break. There's talk of US Airways resuming the route year-round.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 174):
Does anyone know anything about the DL 763 that just departed for ANC? DAL9970 I believe? I am at work on the WN side of the airport and just watched it. Clearly a charter of some kind.

I don't know what the inbound was; if I can figure out the reg, I can probably guess it was my flight from yesterday night.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9970

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: SiouxATC
Posted 2012-11-27 01:38:42 and read 6922 times.

N125DL


Filler
Filler
Filler

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-11-27 07:24:38 and read 6909 times.

I'm so sick of these Asia - Phx hypothetical flights that make zero sense with lax and sfo next store.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-27 09:11:37 and read 6884 times.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 169):
cultural relationship between Germany and eastern Europe?

Yes, that was what I was inferring.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-27 12:28:42 and read 6864 times.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 177):
I'm so sick of these Asia - Phx hypothetical flights that make zero sense with lax and sfo next store.

Tired of the dog chasing its tail?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-27 14:17:13 and read 6855 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 174):

I worked that flight inbound and outbound last night. Tail 125 (76Q). The flight was 1015 from ATL in and was 9970 to ANC. It was a ferry flight where it will be going to SIN from ANC.

EDIT: Looks like the plane is enroute to NRT
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9970

[Edited 2012-11-27 14:36:57]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-11-27 16:07:32 and read 6816 times.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 177):
I'm so sick of these Asia - Phx hypothetical flights that make zero sense

Im tired of all these "Anti-International expansion in PHX people" :P

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-27 16:10:23 and read 6824 times.

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 176):
N125DL
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 180):
I worked that flight inbound and outbound last night. Tail 125 (76Q). The flight was 1015 from ATL in and was 9970 to ANC. It was a ferry flight where it will be going to SIN from ANC.

My flight   

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-11-27 19:51:08 and read 6767 times.

I'm not anti anything and would love to see more growth ( I work there for an undisclosed btw company, not glamours but get paid to be by airplanes during the day, build my flight time whenever....700 tt and trying and a dude with a degree ). More growth in any aspect would likely result in my said company bid on the contract and probably win and thus I'm for any growth but the phx Asia thing is just so tired and not going to happen.

LAX is the Asia phx with sfo a close second

We will see an increase in Mexico flights, a second European airline and expanded Canadian service no doubt in the years ahead no doubt. I would even bet on a Central American country before Asia .

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-11-27 22:25:16 and read 6744 times.

So I don't think this is an interest to any of you unless you work at PHX but AA awarded servisair their fueling contract, Looks like Swissport is starting to have some competition...

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-11-27 22:46:40 and read 6744 times.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 183):

We will see an increase in Mexico flights

Doubtful, unless WN starts flying there. US has a steady schedule, and the only other airline is AM, which has reduced service to a ERJ145 to HMO.

We might see an added WS frequency or two in the coming winters.

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 183):
. I would even bet on a Central American country before Asia .

US did fly to SJO seasonally, although I can't remember if that flight has been permanently suspended or not.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-11-27 23:49:05 and read 6728 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 185):
US did fly to SJO seasonally, although I can't remember if that flight has been permanently suspended or not.

Daily PHX-SJO flights start Dec. 20 according to US' schedule data.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-27 23:54:29 and read 6726 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 185):
US did fly to SJO seasonally, although I can't remember if that flight has been permanently suspended or not.

They still do, flights resume daily on December 19th (northbound on the 20th) and are loaded through the end of April.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-28 21:08:31 and read 6643 times.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 185):
We might see an added WS frequency or two in the coming winters.

It looks like they're up from 1x weekly to 2x weekly on both YQR and YXE for this winter. It's not a huge increase from last season, but it seems like their recent expansion is doing alright for them. YYJ and YLW are also back, both at 1x weekly again.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-11-29 07:30:08 and read 6598 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
Thought you guys might be interested in this. Below are the largest international O&D markets to PHX from 2011:

1) Calgary - 480 PDEW
2) Toronto - 335 PDEW
3) Vancouver - 310 PDEW
4) Edmonton - 295 PDEW
5) London - 169 PDEW
6) Mexico City - 149 PDEW
7) Winnipeg - 128 PDEW
8) Los Cabos - 124 PDEW
9) Guadalajara - 105 PDEW
10) Montreal - 99 PDEW
11) Cancun - 97 PDEW
12) Puerto Vallarta - 88 PDEW
13) Mazatlan - 86 PDEW
14) Paris - 63 PDEW
15) Saskatoon - 57 PDEW

Going back to the data, would PHX not be smart to try to create more flight to Canada, especially in the winter? Six to the top ten locations are in Canada.

I know a lot of Canadians have purchased homes in the Valley during the housing slump, but do they drive or fly down?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-29 08:08:22 and read 6585 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 189):

Going back to the data, would PHX not be smart to try to create more flight to Canada, especially in the winter? Six to the top ten locations are in Canada.

They already have a good amount served, with the exception of Montreal; AC tried it a couple of years ago and it lasted all of a few months IIRC. Averaging one-way daily seats for schedules at the end of December:

YEG - 272 daily
YLW - 19 daily
YQR - 38 daily
YVR - 205 daily
YWG - 77 daily
YXE - 47 daily
YYC - 363 daily
YYJ - 19 daily
Posted 2012-11-29 08:36:56 and read 6563 times.

Thanks wn676.

How bad of a hit do the schedules take during the summer months? I know they drop in frequency, but do not know how much.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-11-29 08:45:17 and read 6577 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 189):
Going back to the data, would PHX not be smart to try to create more flight to Canada, especially in the winter? Six to the top ten locations are in Canada.

PHX has a very lopsided ineternational local market. 40% of PHX's total international O&D comes from Canada.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-11-29 09:45:55 and read 6557 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 191):

Thanks wn676.

How bad of a hit do the schedules take during the summer months? I know they drop in frequency, but do not know how much.

Huh, it looks like the bottom half of my post got chopped. Anyways, basically they drop down to Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, and Vancouver. AC drops Calgary and one Toronto flight while WS takes the biggest hit and drops everything except a single daily Calgary flight. US usually continues with its six daily flights, sometimes adding a third to Vancouver on a less-than-daily schedule and downgauging one of the Edmonton and/or Calgary flights to a CR9.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-11-29 12:07:29 and read 6540 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 189):
I know a lot of Canadians have purchased homes in the Valley during the housing slump, but do they drive or fly down?

I see a lot of Canadian plates on the road between Tucson and Phoenix. This year it seems to be a lot of Alberta and Quebec plates floating around. I saw a cool NWT one that said "ARZONA" a few years ago. Seemed funny to see the block heater plug in the car when it was 80 degrees outside.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-11-29 17:11:32 and read 6509 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 189):
I know a lot of Canadians have purchased homes in the Valley during the housing slump, but do they drive or fly down?

My buddies from America's Top Hat (as they actually call it) always fly down.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-02 01:15:25 and read 6405 times.

The BA daily service begins next week; anyone got any trips planned on BA anytime soon?

I'm also looking for any trip reports for PHX-LHR but I've had a problem with the search function recently.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-02 17:11:11 and read 6319 times.

Also:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL8860

Is this the Cards charter? Didn't the game just end?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-02 21:42:58 and read 6274 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 197):

Yes it is a Cardinals charter

The game ended at like 2 today

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-04 18:40:45 and read 6158 times.

Did the APS trucks come back yet? I haven't seen any C-5s come over since the hurricane.


Also, the F9 service is seasonal? People are making a huge fuss over it on the OAG thread.

Either way, this thread has been quiet recently. When does peak cargo start? i wanna see some cargo 747s  

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-04 18:51:45 and read 6154 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 199):
Also, the F9 service is seasonal? People are making a huge fuss over it on the OAG thread.

What seasonal F9 service?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-04 18:58:54 and read 6148 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 200):
What seasonal F9 service?

I meant to say at AZA

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: BA744PHX
Posted 2012-12-05 05:25:58 and read 6112 times.

G4 will start PVU-AZA on 02/15, 2 weekly Friday and Monday

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-07 07:52:19 and read 6008 times.

The Mavericks' 757 is sitting at the Swift ramp right now, according to PHXSpotters FB.

Anyone at the airport today? I'm too busy to stop by and snap it.

Quoting BA744PHX (Reply 202):
G4 will start PVU-AZA on 02/15, 2 weekly Friday and Monday

Hope it does well   G4 has been known to cancel things quickly if it isn't making money right away.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-07 10:19:11 and read 5980 times.

This morning I saw two OO CRJs at Gate 4 on T3, one was wearing the AE livery, the other was in the plain OO scheme. Is OO operating two flights in the morning to LAX for AA now?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-07 11:48:04 and read 5958 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 204):
Is OO operating two flights in the morning to LAX for AA now?

I believe they've taken over all the Eagle routes for PHX-LAX. Someone else will know why, I just know I've seen them pop up when I book an AS flight out of PHX.

By the way, is PreCheck over at T2 yet? I've heard conflicting reports from TSOs in T3 and T4 over the last few weeks.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-07 12:51:58 and read 5936 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 205):
I believe they've taken over all the Eagle routes for PHX-LAX. Someone else will know why, I just know I've seen them pop up when I book an AS flight out of PHX.

AmEagle outsourced a lot of their flying to OO recently as part of AMR's cost cutting measures.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-07 14:38:36 and read 5912 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 206):
Quoting chrisair (Reply 205):

I'm aware of that. Usually there was one ERJ, now one CRJ overnighting for the LAX flight. But this morning there was two CRJs parked at gate 4, extra section maybe?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-07 15:05:28 and read 5908 times.

Reports of a chopper down in Roosevelt lake, per ABC15. Anyone with more info?

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 207):
I'm aware of that. Usually there was one ERJ, now one CRJ overnighting for the LAX flight. But this morning there was two CRJs parked at gate 4, extra section maybe?

Perhaps, Im not sure too well

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-07 17:11:24 and read 5865 times.

News stated that 3 were rescued by boaters.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: allegiantflyer
Posted 2012-12-07 17:12:37 and read 5873 times.

I guess we can stop wishing for more expansion in PHX now that a merger is almost here. I really dont get why US would want to downsize something like PHX with 40 million passengers a year. Maybe someother airline will set up shop and create somewhat of a focus city.Than we can put our hopes of getting asia service back in place. This is very sad news for all of us who wished for more and got the opposite. I heard on the news yesterday and they said the Arizona economy would have a full recovery in 3 years. I guess they will have to expand that number more. with all this said. If a merger does go through. What other company could expand more in PHX? UA? (lets cross our fingers WN will take over and make a LCC Tropolis )

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-12-08 08:07:32 and read 5777 times.

Is there any plans for WN to expand their MX in Phx?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-08 19:59:23 and read 5709 times.

I think to state that US will have a major effect on the recovery of the metro Phoenix area is a little overstated. Will the economy be effected, but with the loss of 5,000 jobs or 10,000 people in the valley is a small percentage. The population of the Phoenix metro area is now at 1,469,000 people.

With that stated, I would think UA and DL would pick up anything that is lacking in service. WN is probably going to be the big winner in anything that moves from PHX. With all changes there is pain, but sometimes that pain allows for opportunities that would not of been there before.

I wonder if US/AA would keep the Hawai'i flight from PHX or move them to LAX? If they do move them away from PHX, I would also wonder if HA would add a second flight due to the demand being so high and the loss of so many seats?

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 211):
Is there any plans for WN to expand their MX in Phx?

That would be interesting IF, US decided to move its MX facility to a different location, would WN take both facilities or would another airline take this space?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-08 20:15:22 and read 5699 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 212):
I wonder if US/AA would keep the Hawai'i flight from PHX or move them to LAX? If they do move them away from PHX, I would also wonder if HA would add a second flight due to the demand being so high and the loss of so many seats?

Aren't these flights grossing huge numbers and also involved with a lot of O&D here in PHX?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-08 21:10:32 and read 5690 times.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 210):
I guess we can stop wishing for more expansion in PHX now that a merger is almost here. I really dont get why US would want to downsize something like PHX with 40 million passengers a year

They made an offer, there is no merger yet. Hopefully it stays that way.
Makes you wonder what would happen IF it did happen, T3 north would be a ghost town expect for B6 and HA (until their gate move). As much as I am anti US & AA merging there could be some benefits to the PHX airport. For example ZK,UA,and AS could move out of T2 and move into T3 where AA is giving up gate space.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 210):
Maybe someother airline will set up shop and create somewhat of a focus city

With LAX being a focus city for DL and a hub for UA and AA, what major international carrier would set up a focus city in PHX? PHX would remain a focus city post merger

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 210):
What other company could expand more in PHX? UA? (lets cross our fingers WN will take over and make a LCC Tropolis )

I don't think there would an airline expanding their operation but more flights to important hubs (ATL,MSP,ORD,IAD,DTW,JFK,LGA,DEN) WN would pick up some slack but not all of it.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 212):

I think to state that US will have a major effect on the recovery of the metro Phoenix area is a little overstated. Will the economy be effected, but with the loss of 5,000 jobs or 10,000 people in the valley is a small percentage.

  
Corporate jobs would be affected and relocated but most airport jobs would be safe until a downsizing occurs, even if PHX downsizes most airport jobs would be safe.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 212):
With that stated, I would think UA and DL would pick up anything that is lacking in service. WN is probably going to be the big winner in anything that moves from PHX.

  

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 212):
I wonder if US/AA would keep the Hawai'i flight from PHX or move them to LAX? If they do move them away from PHX, I would also wonder if HA would add a second flight due to the demand being so high and the loss of so many seats?

Good question. I wonder that myself. I would assume the Hawaii flights would stay but if they do get cut, I could see HA coming in adding another flight to HNL and maybe one to OGG, I could see HA having an operation like they do in LAS...

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-08 21:56:19 and read 5673 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 212):
The population of the Phoenix metro area is now at 1,469,000 people

The metro area has over 4 million residents, the number you quoted is for Phoenix proper.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-09 05:37:59 and read 5633 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 214):

Good question. I wonder that myself. I would assume the Hawaii flights would stay but if they do get cut, I could see HA coming in adding another flight to HNL and maybe one to OGG, I could see HA having an operation like they do in LAS...

I would think that HA would add OGG to the PNX-HNL mix. But the other question with this one is, would HA have the equipment to add another flight. They are expansion in Asia has gone into high gear. I know they have five new A-330's coming in for 2013, but would that be enough flexability for the rest of their schedules?

Quoting wn676 (Reply 215):
The metro area has over 4 million residents, the number you quoted is for Phoenix proper.

You are correct 4.36 million as of 2009 with a 33% growth in the last ten years.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 213):
Aren't these flights grossing huge numbers and also involved with a lot of O&D here in PHX?

US and in general the numbers to Hawai'i are good. With that said it seems as if there is a lot of overlap that would happen in a merger. They would have to upgrade the planes for the number of seats, but I cannot see keeping both PHX and LAX with a combined 14 flights daily in the same situation.

AA to Hawai'i via LAX
LAX to HNL - 4 flights (2 - 767's & 2 - 757's)
LAX to OGG - 2 Flights (767's)
LAX to LIH - 2 Flights (757's)
LAX to KOA - 1 Flight (757)

US to Hawai'i via PHX
PHX to HNL - 2
PHX to OGG - 2
PHX to LIH - 1
PHX to KOA - 1

With WN and their "rumored" Hawai'i operations, could this see a starting flight from PHX to HNL via OAK, ONT or SAN? Yes, I know a 738 cannot make a PHX to HNL.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-09 09:52:58 and read 5584 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216):
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 214):

The whole doom and gloom thing is a little pre-mature.

First off, we don't know what the fate of PHX would be post merger. Everyone is assuming PHX will be gutted but I don't see that. I've always maintained that PHX would resemble SLC in size and function. I would envision PHX to look like the following:

-200-225 flights a day with about 30-40% being mainline.
-Mainline flights to all major East Coast cities including: BOS, EWR, JFK, PHL, IAD, CLT, ATL, MCO, FLL, and MIA.
-Mainline flights to all major West Coast cities: LAX, SAN, SNA, SJC, SFO, PDX, and SEA.
-Mainline to all majors in between: ORD, DFW, IAH, and LAS.
-RJs to smaller markets in Midwest, Mountain west and west coast.
-Flights to OGG, HNL, and ANC.
-Flights to MEX, GDL, HMO, and beach cities in Mexico.

Some of the markets above may only be one or two flights a day.

I do think international expansion at PHX is far fetched at this stage.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-09 11:50:12 and read 5550 times.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216):
With WN and their "rumored" Hawai'i operations, could this see a starting flight from PHX to HNL via OAK, ONT or SAN? Yes, I know a 738 cannot make a PHX to HNL.

Guarantee that WN will run one stop Hawaii flights: MDW-California-HNL, PHX-California-HNL etc.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PSAJet17
Posted 2012-12-09 14:26:53 and read 5517 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 214):
T3 north would be a ghost town expect for B6 and HA

You mean T3 South since that is where AA, HA and B6 gates are located. The north side is DL(NW)

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-09 14:49:00 and read 5507 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 218):
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 216):
With WN and their "rumored" Hawai'i operations, could this see a starting flight from PHX to HNL via OAK, ONT or SAN? Yes, I know a 738 cannot make a PHX to HNL.

Guarantee that WN will run one stop Hawaii flights: MDW-California-HNL, PHX-California-HNL etc

Realize that this is a 738. Not a 757 or a 767. These high-grossing routes are operated on large jets, and a WN 737 will have little impact on the competition here in the valley. Heck, it may make things more profitable for other airlines too. Will get these guys to produce even better service to Hawaii...

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-09 14:54:08 and read 5508 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 217):
The whole doom and gloom thing is a little pre-mature.

First off, we don't know what the fate of PHX would be post merger. Everyone is assuming PHX will be gutted but I don't see that. I've always maintained that PHX would resemble SLC in size and function. I would envision PHX to look like the following:

-200-225 flights a day with about 30-40% being mainline.
-Mainline flights to all major East Coast cities including: BOS, EWR, JFK, PHL, IAD, CLT, ATL, MCO, FLL, and MIA.
-Mainline flights to all major West Coast cities: LAX, SAN, SNA, SJC, SFO, PDX, and SEA.
-Mainline to all majors in between: ORD, DFW, IAH, and LAS.
-RJs to smaller markets in Midwest, Mountain west and west coast.
-Flights to OGG, HNL, and ANC.
-Flights to MEX, GDL, HMO, and beach cities in Mexico.

Some of the markets above may only be one or two flights a day.

I do think international expansion at PHX is far fetched at this stage.

I do not think it would be a gloom and doom situation, but I also do not see a AA/US keeping the number of flights into PHX since their presence in LAX and DFW. Also a secondary location for items like Hawai'i flights seems illogical to me. More flight will connect to LAX than PHX. This was the way it was in the 80's and early 90's when I first started to go to Hawai'i.

People were saying that PHX was going to be majorly effected when HP took over US. PHX fared fine and has a specific need for flights simply due to its population.

I agree about international expansion. I think it was a bit of a dream anyways. Since most of the loads to and from PHX are mostly from Canada and Mexico.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-09 18:42:40 and read 5455 times.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/20...crash-into-arizona-lake-identified

Looks like those in the earlier helicoptor crash are in the hospital in stable condition.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: mach2is2slowaz
Posted 2012-12-11 10:45:22 and read 5356 times.

Does anyone know why the City of Chandler and City of Gilbert have both recently passed ordinances banning Hot Air Balloons from launching from or landing on city owned or managed property? I always thought that Chandler was pro aviation. As a local Hot Air Balloon Pilot this concerns me a bit. By restricting landing spots both cities are making what is a very safe sport dangerous by forcing pilots to choose a landing spot that may not be optimal because they do not want to violate a city ordinance and risk getting fined. If it comes down to safety I will choose a safe landing spot and risk the fine vs. risking damage to my aircraft or even worse injuring a passenger. The restrictions that the Indian communities have against land usage is a shame because we have all the open land to fly over and stay away from congestion but we are forced to fly over cities or have to drive miles upon miles to get out over the open desert that is not reservation land.      

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-11 11:22:46 and read 5337 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 223):
Does anyone know why the City of Chandler and City of Gilbert have both recently passed ordinances banning Hot Air Balloons from launching from or landing on city owned or managed property? I always thought that Chandler was pro aviation. As a local Hot Air Balloon Pilot this concerns me a bit. By restricting landing spots both cities are making what is a very safe sport dangerous by forcing pilots to choose a landing spot that may not be optimal because they do not want to violate a city ordinance and risk getting fined.



My opinion only, but this probably has to due with liability issues. The cities could be sued if they allowed balloons to take off and land and city property and an accident subsequently occurred. By forbidding this practice, it eliminates (or reduces) the risk of being sued.

It really is not as big of an issue as you've outlined above. In the event of a mechanical emergency, the pilot of a balloon is going to land as quickly and safely as possible, regardless of whose land it is on. The ordinance is simply to stop the routine use of city property for scheduled takeoffs and landings.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-11 21:59:38 and read 5266 times.

So the BA 744 flight is now going daily. Anyone know how that's going?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-11 23:33:35 and read 5239 times.

Does anyone know about the new "Express Baggage Check" that is now being advertised at the East Economy Parking lot? There are banners that point you to the SkyTrain station that say USAir and WN will check your bags in the parking lot for free (not including any bag fees). I'm curious to know how it's going to work.

These went up sometime in the last few days--they weren't up on Thursday or Friday when I was at the airport, but were there Monday night when I parked.

And does anyone know the opening date for the SkyTrain (which will make the East Economy lot horribly inconvenient if you don't fly round trips on WN, US or anyone else in T4).

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-12 00:56:05 and read 5246 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 226):
And does anyone know the opening date for the SkyTrain (which will make the East Economy lot horribly inconvenient if you don't fly round trips on WN, US or anyone else in T4).

I heard sometime in March

Quoting chrisair (Reply 226):
Does anyone know about the new "Express Baggage Check" that is now being advertised at the East Economy Parking lot? There are banners that point you to the SkyTrain station that say USAir and WN will check your bags in the parking lot for free (not including any bag fees). I'm curious to know how it's going to work.

All I know about this is this...I could've sworn it was to begin when the SkyTrain opened but I haven't heard anything in a while about that.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-12 07:43:51 and read 5216 times.

Quoting mach2is2slowaz (Reply 223):

I would have to agree with EricR as it is more than likely a CYOA policy. The funny thing about this is last weekend was Gilbert's big Balloon Festival and they take off from city land. I have also seen some people piloting balloons in Chandler that have landed or taken off directly by Chandler Municipal Airport. I can only surmise that it was not a safe place to operate a balloon.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-12-12 09:51:37 and read 5187 times.

Those guys call the tower just like any other aircraft.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-12 09:54:23 and read 5185 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 226):

Interesting, so they also built a bag system with the sky train? Did not know this.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-12 10:42:33 and read 5179 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 230):
Interesting, so they also built a bag system with the sky train? Did not know this.

It might just be a place to tag bags, and the passengers will drop them off at the induction belts when arriving at T4.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-12 11:18:42 and read 5170 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 231):
It might just be a place to tag bags, and the passengers will drop them off at the induction belts when arriving at T4.

I think this is how it'll work. They were also talking about it when the mayor took everyone through the 44th St station--apparently you can check your bag there, too.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 227):
I heard sometime in March

That's a bit of a downer, if true. They've been testing the trains for the last few months. I see them (and hear the announcements) every time I park now. Wonder what's taking so long.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-12 11:38:30 and read 5154 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 232):
That's a bit of a downer, if true. They've been testing the trains for the last few months. I see them (and hear the announcements) every time I park now. Wonder what's taking so long.

Q1 2013
http://skyharbor.com/phxskytrain/
So between Jan and March then.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-12 23:23:13 and read 5073 times.

For the sake of reference, I compiled a list of airlines with regular service to PHX and the equipment they use.

For this compilation I will omit the destinations served; I will save that for another post.

If there are any corrections please provide them so I can update this list.

I will list the airlines by marketing code (DL, UA, US, etc) and, unless the airline operates a high amount of varied service under the marketing code, will omit the feeder airlines.

AM EMB-145
AC Airbus A320 family
AS Boeing 734, 739
AA MD-82, Boeing 737 (please check on this one), CRJ-200, EMB-145
BA Boeing 744
B6 Airbus A320
DL Boeing 737, 738, 752, 753, 763 (seasonal), MD-88, MD-90, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, CRJ-900
F9 Airbus 319, E-190
HA Boeing 763ER
SY Boeing 738 (seasonal)
UA Boeing 735, 739, 752, CRJ-700
US Airbus A319, A320, A321, Boeing 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-700
WN Boeing 733, 737, 738
WS Boeing 737, 738
ZK Beech 1900D (Do they also operate the EMB-120 into PHX?)

CARGO:

A8 Metroliner, EMB-120 (check this too)
EM Cessna 208B
FX Airbus A310F, DC-10F, MD-10F, MD-11F
GB Boeing 762F, 763F
OJ (I'm not sure which they operate here)
PT Boeing 727F
5X Boeing 763F, MD-11F (seasonal)

Lots of variety. Like i said, let me know if I missed something.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: Cactus742
Posted 2012-12-13 00:10:34 and read 5060 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 234):
Like i said, let me know if I missed something.

UA also operates A319s and A320s (both to DEN).

US has CR9s, not CR7s.

AC also has the E190 on its seasonal YYC service.

You're right about AA with the 738 (to MIA). They also have MD-83s in addition to the 82s.

Thanks for the post! A good point of reference.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-13 02:14:25 and read 5054 times.

AS sends all their types to PHX. I've flown a 734, 73G, 738, 739 and 739ER (just flew it last week, actually). There's really no pattern either. One day they send all 734s or 73Gs, the next is a mix of the 739ER, 734, 73G and a 739. Someone in scheduling must schedule the planes based on what side of the bed they roll out of. The left side gets a nice mix of planes, right side gets the ratty, old 734s.

I've also seen the Sun Country 73G floating around. I've flown in to PHX on the WN 735s as well--not sure if they come through as often as they did earlier this year though.

[Edited 2012-12-13 02:15:45]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 4holer
Posted 2012-12-13 08:21:11 and read 5019 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 234):
PT Boeing 727F

Really? Haven't seen that on approach for quite some time now. If so, good to know!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-13 09:32:39 and read 5006 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 234):
If there are any corrections please provide them so I can update this list.

On top the EMB190 on AC they also operate A319s into PHX.
DL does not not send the the 737 or MD88 to PHX, also OO hasn't sent a CRJ to PHX for DL for a while, I can't really recall the last time there was one here.
SY brings the 737 from time to time.
ZK does not bring the EMB-120 into PHX, Beech1900 only.
UA also has CRJ service to LAX I think

Good list though   

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-13 10:04:52 and read 4990 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 238):
DL does not not send the the 737

They do use the B738 on MSP-PHX and DTW-PHX flights from time to time, but at the moment it's mostly 757s or MD-90s.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 234):

AM EMB-145
AC Airbus A320 family
AS Boeing 734, 739
AA MD-82, Boeing 737 (please check on this one), CRJ-200, EMB-145
BA Boeing 744
B6 Airbus A320
DL Boeing 737, 738, 752, 753, 763 (seasonal), MD-88, MD-90, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, CRJ-900
F9 Airbus 319, E-190
HA Boeing 763ER
SY Boeing 738 (seasonal)
UA Boeing 735, 739, 752, CRJ-700
US Airbus A319, A320, A321, Boeing 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-700
WN Boeing 733, 737, 738
WS Boeing 737, 738
ZK Beech 1900D (Do they also operate the EMB-120 into PHX?)

CARGO:

A8 Metroliner, EMB-120 (check this too)
EM Cessna 208B
FX Airbus A310F, DC-10F, MD-10F, MD-11F
GB Boeing 762F, 763F
OJ (I'm not sure which they operate here)
PT Boeing 727F
5X Boeing 763F, MD-11F (seasonal)

Lots of variety. Like i said, let me know if I missed something.

Your list looks pretty good, here are a few more.

A8 in addition to the E120 and Metro, they fly Beech 1900s, Beech C99s and Piper PA-31-350 Chieftain's from PHX.
I have also seen FX and 5X use A300F's to PHX, also FX no longer has any standard "DC"-10s, just MD-10s.
WS has used the 736 here as well.
AA uses both MD-82 and 83s, the 738 flies MIA-PHX and some ORD-PHX flights sometimes.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: asqx
Posted 2012-12-13 10:23:30 and read 4984 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 234):
DL Boeing 737, 738, 752, 753, 763 (seasonal), MD-88, MD-90, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, CRJ-900

Currently Delta in PHX is seeing a mix of A319, A320, 737-800, 757-200, and MD-90 aircraft. Delta Connection brings in CRJ-700 and CRJ-900 aircraft flown by SkyWest and Pinnacle (Mesaba).

The 757-300 and 767-300 are both seasonal upgauges/additions, the 753 to Minneapolis and Detroit in the spring and the 763 for Atlanta usually in November. The only time we see a SkyWest CRJ-200 is on a last minute equipment substitution or the even rarer Tucson diversion.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-13 11:44:47 and read 4968 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 238):
DL does not not send the the 737

There was a 738 painted in the Skyteam livery sitting at gate 16 last Thursday when I landed about 715p. Saw it from the parking lot bus.

Quoting asqx (Reply 240):
Delta Connection brings in CRJ-700 and CRJ-900 aircraft flown by SkyWest and Pinnacle (Mesaba)

Haven't seen Pinnacle/Mesaba planes at PHX in over a year. I flew Mesaba in the summer of 2011--I couldn't figure out why the CR9 had a slightly different layout than the Skywest ones I was used to.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-13 11:46:47 and read 4966 times.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 237):
Really? Haven't seen that on approach for quite some time now. If so, good to know!

I heard it come in at night once.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 236):
Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 235):
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 238):
DL does not not send the the 737 or MD88 to PHX, also OO hasn't sent a CRJ to PHX for DL for a while, I can't really recall the last time there was one here.
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 238):
ZK does not bring the EMB-120 into PHX, Beech1900 only.
Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 238):
UA also has CRJ service to LAX I think

Thanks for the info guys! I also got info for when DL operates its month-long CVG service, they're going to use an Airbus A319. I added that to the list on top of what you guys suggested.
Let me try updating the list:

AM EMB-145
AC Airbus A319, A320, E-190
AS Boeing 734, 73G, 738, 739, 739ER
AA MD-82, MD-83, Boeing 738, CRJ-200, EMB-145
BA Boeing 744
B6 Airbus A320
DL Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 738, 752, 753 (seasonal), 763 (seasonal), MD-90, CRJ-700, CRJ-900
F9 Airbus 319, E-190
HA Boeing 763ER
SY Boeing 73G, 738 (all seasonal)
UA Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 735, 739, 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-700
US Airbus A319, A320, A321, Boeing 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-900
WN Boeing 733, 735, 737, 738
WS Boeing 736, 737, 738
ZK Beech 1900D

CARGO:

A8 Metroliner, EMB-120, Beech 1900, Beech C99, Piper PA-31-350 Chieftain
EM Cessna 208B
FX Airbus A300F, A310F, DC-10F, MD-10F, MD-11F
GB Boeing 762F, 763F
OJ (I'm not sure which they operate here)
PT Boeing 727F
5X Airbus A300F, Boeing 763F, MD-11F (seasonal)

Again if I forgot something let me know!

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-13 12:02:23 and read 4953 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 239):
Quoting chrisair (Reply 241):

I was talking about the 737-7. Those never come to PHX

The DL 738 is a common site in PHX along with the 752


[Edited 2012-12-13 12:05:20]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-13 12:34:39 and read 4936 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 243):
I was talking about the 737-7. Those never come to PHX

My mistake, I just thought about that..


I thought of a few more we get at PHX.
IFL Group will fly CV-5800s freighters to LAX.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jared Romanowicz - PHX Spotters



AE has also used the ERJ-140 and 135 to PHX from LAX, Skywest CRJ's have taken over several of those flights now though.

UA also uses 738s here on some flights from EWR, IAH, and sometimes CLE and DEN as well.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: asqx
Posted 2012-12-13 13:42:48 and read 4913 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 243):
I was talking about the 737-7. Those never come to PHX

Well, not any more. There was a very brief period where they were the scheduled equipment a couple of days a week for the now discontinued CVG route.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 241):
Haven't seen Pinnacle/Mesaba planes at PHX in over a year. I flew Mesaba in the summer of 2011--I couldn't figure out why the CR9 had a slightly different layout than the Skywest ones I was used to.

Yeah, Mesaba has different seats and a different galley configuration. They also have a third flight attendant jumpseat as well as a few other minor differences between their and SkyWest's CRJ-900s.

[Edited 2012-12-13 13:45:52]

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-13 16:46:55 and read 4873 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 242):
AM EMB-145
AC Airbus A319, A320, E-190
AS Boeing 734, 73G, 738, 739, 739ER
AA MD-82, MD-83, Boeing 738, CRJ-200, EMB-145
BA Boeing 744
B6 Airbus A320
DL Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 738, 752, 753 (seasonal), 763 (seasonal), MD-90, CRJ-700, CRJ-900
F9 Airbus 319, E-190
HA Boeing 763ER
SY Boeing 73G, 738 (all seasonal)
UA Airbus A319, A320, Boeing 735, 739, 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-700
US Airbus A319, A320, A321, Boeing 752, CRJ-200, CRJ-900
WN Boeing 733, 735, 737, 738
WS Boeing 736, 737, 738
ZK Beech 1900D

AS - no -900ERs yet (they just got their first one last month)
WS - B736 hasn't been regular here since I think the end of 2010, sometimes shows up as a sub
UA - B735 appears to be summer seasonal

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 242):
A8 Metroliner, EMB-120, Beech 1900, Beech C99, Piper PA-31-350 Chieftain
EM Cessna 208B
FX Airbus A300F, A310F, DC-10F, MD-10F, MD-11F
GB Boeing 762F, 763F
OJ (I'm not sure which they operate here)
PT Boeing 727F
5X Airbus A300F, Boeing 763F, MD-11F (seasonal)

FX - add B722 seasonal
PT - hasn't operated here since September 2011
5X - add B752

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-12-13 17:41:19 and read 4854 times.

Have t seen a md 88 delta here in a while. Would US ever bring props back via OO for the I state flying or are the 200s that much better than the gone dash 8s?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-13 19:09:57 and read 4820 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 246):
no -900ERs yet (they just got their first one last month)

I just flew 403AS (their 2nd 900ER) SEA-PHX last Thursday.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: aztrainer
Posted 2012-12-14 08:34:34 and read 4752 times.

FX - also fly the 208B

Quoting 93Sierra (Reply 247):
Would US ever bring props back via OO for the I state flying or are the 200s that much better than the gone dash 8s?

I think that those days are gone. Their interstate network is at major airports in AZ. They only fly PHX to TUC, Yuma and Flagstaff.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: 93Sierra
Posted 2012-12-14 10:03:09 and read 4741 times.

There used to be service to IFP.....one could hope US or maybe G4 out of AZA would give it a go. And for fun why not have OO bring a few of the EMBs in to bid against Lakes on the EAS routes.

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: wn676
Posted 2012-12-14 11:27:31 and read 4722 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 248):

Huh, I've only been showing 3xx regs for the last month although there were a couple blanked out ones. Are they being scheduled as a separate fleet type or just mixing with the other -900s right now?

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-14 16:21:41 and read 4673 times.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 251):
Are they being scheduled as a separate fleet type or just mixing with the other -900s right now?

Their website (and expertflyer) don't differentiate between the -900 and -900ER. You can see the differences between the two with rows 12-14--it's the only plane in the AS fleet with rows 12-14.

Not sure how they schedule them though. They're running them all over, it seems. Apparently they ran one SEA-KOA-OAK-SEA recently. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...6/history/20121206/0145Z/PHKO/KOAK

Here's the flighradar link for 403AS: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/n403as

Topic: RE: Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 3
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-14 19:28:14 and read 4640 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 252):
Their website (and expertflyer) don't differentiate between the -900 and -900ER. You can see the differences between the two with rows 12-14--it's the only plane in the AS fleet with rows 12-14.

For the sake of it, I'll use both for the list.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 249):
FX - also fly the 208B

This is EM

Sorry for the lack of an update, I've been busy with exams. I will now close this thread and make a new thread, with the list beginning the new thread here:
Phoenix Aviation Thread Part 4 (by PHX787 Dec 14 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Thank you guys for 3 awesome threads thus far!

Mods, please lock this.


PHX787


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