Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5627762/

Topic: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: bavair
Posted 2012-12-05 19:26:55 and read 8769 times.

I haven't seen this posted anywhere, please delete if I oversaw something.

LH has just announced that it will introduce the Premium Economy Class on its entire long haul fleet. The supervisory board has voted for the project, however details of the product and timeframe of introduction remain open.

I have mixed feelings about this since LH has been very premium heavy in the past. I hope they are able to attract new customers and get economy pax to pay more while keeping Business passengers in the front.

Link: LH Pressrelease (German only, sorry)

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: wilco737
Posted 2012-12-05 22:11:56 and read 8514 times.

Quoting bavair (Thread starter):
I have mixed feelings about this since LH has been very premium heavy in the past. I hope they are able to attract new customers and get economy pax to pay more while keeping Business passengers in the front.

That is true, but many passengers asked for a premium economy class as the step between economy and business class is quite big. Many airlines offer a premium eco now and I guess it is a wise decision. But they shouldn't wait too long. Hope it won't take many years until they start refurbishing the airplanes  

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: SKAirbus
Posted 2012-12-06 01:30:49 and read 8115 times.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 1):
That is true, but many passengers asked for a premium economy class as the step between economy and business class is quite big. Many airlines offer a premium eco now and I guess it is a wise decision. But they shouldn't wait too long. Hope it won't take many years until they start refurbishing the airplanes

I totally agree... Lufthansa has lagged behind here for years. I think it can only be a good thing.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: sweair
Posted 2012-12-06 01:34:23 and read 8092 times.

How would that look like in a A380 and a 748? 3-3-3?

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: ly7e7
Posted 2012-12-06 02:27:10 and read 7919 times.

Here is a link to a PR in English:

http://presse.lufthansa.com/en/news-...2012/december/05/article/2279.html

Not clear how the product will look like because it's development is yet to start. However the general wording of the PR suggests a true PE product and not same economy seats with 2 extra inches of legroom. I guess it wont be bookable before late into 2014.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: LondonCity
Posted 2012-12-06 02:36:28 and read 7886 times.

It had to happen eventually. LH is the last of the large European carriers not to have a premium economy product of one sort or another. Does it now mean that carriers like LX, OS and SN will follow suit ?

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: na
Posted 2012-12-06 03:38:32 and read 7684 times.

Very good. In a time where the Business Class has become more comfortable than the First 25 years ago, while nothing has changed in Economy in terms of spaciousness something had to be done, the difference has become extreme. LH speaks about a "substantially" upgraded product. 3-3-3 on the 747/A380 for example, and 20%, about 15 cm, more seat pitch perhaps? Interesting will be, how many seats and will it be taken exclusively from Eco, or will Business and Eco both surrendering some rows to form the new class? Such seats could cost about 30% more than regular Eco I expect, and if even more, it means clearly more money for the airline.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: danielkandi
Posted 2012-12-06 04:15:46 and read 7421 times.

I hope they make it less seats than TK, and still find a good price for people to afford it. Would they do like this ? :

Have seats that are between AF premium (which are horrid) and TK ? something in between. Maybe like JAL's new premium could be good.

Food like on Qantas ? A slightly better meal, served on a plate instead of the trays. Or KLM style a la carte. Better than eco food, but not near business standard so it ain't offering too much.

Noisecancelling headphones ? prolly too much i guess... a better pillow would be nice.

I hope they don't do it like KLM. As much as i Love them, the seats are the same as normal seats, but more recline and legroom, I do order it to be able to sleep. But I paid 490 pounds or so, for AAL-SFO, and upgraded for about 130 pounds to Comfort both ways... If this was LH, and they did the above to enhance it more than KLM, pricerange could be 800-1000 pounds for the same flight. Hopyefully not too much more.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: LondonCity
Posted 2012-12-06 04:22:57 and read 7330 times.

Whatever Y+ product that LH adopts, the development process will take time. According to the press release, the development group will not meet until early next year and then the development itself will take two years. Aviation is such a fast changing business nowadays, so one wonders whether LH should wait so long.

http://presse.lufthansa.com/en/news-...2012/december/05/article/2279.html

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: na
Posted 2012-12-06 04:30:10 and read 7246 times.

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 7):
Food like on Qantas ? A slightly better meal, served on a plate instead of the trays. Or KLM style a la carte. Better than eco food, but not near business standard so it ain't offering too much.

I think that involves too much effort and unneccessarily leads to higher prices unless they serve slightly downgraded Business Class food. I dont need the expensive drinks, and just one hot meal would be enough. Nothing cooked for breakfast. But I personally wouldnt care much for better food than in Eco, being generally interested in LHs Premium Eco due to more space alone if the price is fair (what for me equals to no more than 25-30% on top of the regular fare).

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 7):
Noisecancelling headphones ? prolly too much i guess... a better pillow would be nice.

A perfectly shaped pillow in two different sizes with hook and loop fasteners to allow for better sleeping would be nice.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: danielkandi
Posted 2012-12-06 04:37:59 and read 7182 times.

I dont think that TK food will be matched at all, but the 15 euro a la carte meals on KLM , should be replicated , as they are still served nicely without being too fancy. Plus its cheap for them.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: na
Posted 2012-12-06 04:54:54 and read 6999 times.

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
Whatever Y+ product that LH adopts, the development process will take time. According to the press release, the development group will not meet until early next year and then the development itself will take two years. Aviation is such a fast changing business nowadays, so one wonders whether LH should wait so long.

I cant see that they say the "development" takes two years. If anything, thats probably the timeframe for converting the whole fleet.
And meeting "early next year" isnt far away, as that could be in 4 weeks already!
As I read it, new seats are likely.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: Ferroviarius
Posted 2012-12-06 08:19:06 and read 5457 times.

Quoting sweair (Reply 3):
How would that look like in a A380 and a 748? 3-3-3?

I sincerely hope they will go for 2-4-2 instead of 3-3-3. 2-4-2 in BA's World Traveller Plus is, indeed, a Premium Eco.
And on the 3??s, 2-3-2 like in SAS' Eco Extra would be formidable.

Best,
Ferroviarius

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: tommy525
Posted 2012-12-06 09:42:51 and read 4836 times.

FAIK, EVA Air invented this concept. Seems to gain traction. So much so that EVA has now dropped First Class and kept a three class cabin (Biz, Premium Eco, Eco).

First Class is usually not profitable and is disappearing worldwide it seems.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: airzim
Posted 2012-12-06 10:49:33 and read 4398 times.

Actually I think it was VS that 'invented' it. But I could be mistaken.

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 13):
FAIK, EVA Air invented this concept. Seems to gain traction. So much so that EVA has now dropped First Class and kept a three class cabin (Biz, Premium Eco, Eco).

First Class is usually not profitable and is disappearing worldwide it seems.

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: lh526
Posted 2012-12-06 11:10:20 and read 4234 times.

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 13):
(Biz, Premium Eco, Eco).

So, factually it's Eco biz and First again, just with a different nametag  

Topic: RE: LH Confirms Premium Eco
Username: civetfive
Posted 2012-12-06 19:42:00 and read 2030 times.

Guys, before the merger, pre-IPTE UA C was the best Y+ in the skies 

I do find it incredibly amusing how a few years ago airlines like QF, LH and CX completely moved away from Y+, claiming it would "dilute their J yields". I always believed that the vast majority of the tickets sold in premium cabins are *not* discretionary and instead subject to corporate travel policies and contracts. If true, then Y+ sales aren't cannibalizing J yields but instead driving incremental revenue away from Y, where the corporate policy would allow Y+ on longhaul but not J. After the market for J class travel pulled back significantly and policies shifted to Y+ or Y, the airlines that didn't invest have lost out. Furthermore, airlines like LH had pretty horrible Y products until recently, so I can only imagine how shocked some of those customers were when they came to realize the gulf that truly exists between hard products now.

Whatever discretionary spend is in the market is much more likely to be spent in a manner that drives value to the customer. Its a much eaiser sell to the customer when its a 25% increase in price for some extra leg room and catering. QF somehow seems to be an exception, pricing SYD-LAX Y+ at incremental over full fare - I rarely find deals under $4k-$5k, which just doesn't feel acceptable.

[Edited 2012-12-06 19:43:21]

[Edited 2012-12-06 19:45:48]


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/