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Topic: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-10-12 10:35:59 and read 15149 times.

Greetings A.netters, it gives me great pleasure in starting a thread for Indian Aviation on A.net for the first time.

As far as current developments are concerned, AI is finally shifting HQ to Delhi citing inflow of cash by renting out Nariman Point building and less expense in moving company officials back and forth between their HQ and the country's capital.

Does this have any implications on the airlines' operations?

Regds

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-12 12:21:32 and read 15075 times.

This will have limited operational implications.

However, it will piss off quite a few babus who now have to relocate..

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-12 12:25:52 and read 15075 times.

Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-12 12:31:31 and read 15064 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-12 12:49:43 and read 15054 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 3):
It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.

It is certainly less idiotic than bailing out AI. GOI is expected to spend nearly $6 billion to save AI with about 18,000 employees, which is about $300,000 per employee.

It will be smarter for GOI to offer a buyout to each AI employee to the tune of $200,000(avg. depending on position), and spend the rest on aviation infrastructure.

Btw, I agree that Air Kerala is likely to fail.

[Edited 2012-10-12 12:50:15]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-12 12:59:33 and read 15043 times.

Air India is completely irrelevant. Just because GoI is wasting more money on them, that does not make it a good idea for govt to waste money on another carrier.

Regardless, IX which serves the routes which Air Kerala is looking at, is marginally profitable operationally. And that's exactly where it should be - the airline exists to provide a public service, not to make money hand over fist. Adding competition to that is just going to destroy the little mercies in our aviation sector...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-12 13:10:55 and read 15034 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
Regardless, IX which serves the routes which Air Kerala is looking at, is marginally profitable operationally.

Does AI report separate official numbers for AI express? Do you have a link?

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 5):
And that's exactly where it should be - the airline exists to provide a public service, not to make money hand over fist.

Role of GOI should be to provide infrastructure, and not run an airline which needs to be subsidised and bailed out frequently.

India can do without the likes of AI, which drain GOI resources away from much needed investments in infrastructure, including aviation.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-12 13:39:42 and read 15005 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):
Does AI report separate official numbers for AI express? Do you have a link?

The data is available but very fudged up for a variety of reasons - IX shares 25% of revenue with AI, and shares a little over 20% of costs...

AI hasn't published profitability data for IX since last year, so I unfortunately do not have a public link.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):

Role of GOI should be to provide infrastructure, and not run an airline which needs to be subsidised and bailed out frequently.

India can do without the likes of AI, which drain GOI resources away from much needed investments in infrastructure, including aviation.

That's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't actually mean anything. If GoI isn't wasting money on AI, they will be wasting that money on populist, destructive schemes like NREGA. What money is spent on infrastructure improvements will mostly end up in Swiss bank accounts - actual infrastructure change will be minimal at best.

Honestly, it's all irrelevant. GoI will do what it wants to do, and the taxpayer will be stuck with the bag at the end of the day anyway...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-12 14:10:22 and read 14985 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 7):
What money is spent on infrastructure improvements will mostly end up in Swiss bank accounts - actual infrastructure change will be minimal at best.

I disagree. On my last visit to MAA, I saw a brand new international terminal(not operational yet). I am sure some portion of the budget went to politicians and bureaucrats, but at least MAA has a new terminal.

Btw, MAA is getting a new subway system. I know a sub-contactor in MAA who is involved with this project, and hear a lot of stories on how funds get diverted. However, it is nowhere near the "most" characterization that you have used.

I will take a new terminal or subway over AI any day.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: vishaljo
Posted 2012-10-14 12:59:32 and read 14708 times.

At homebase

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-14 13:43:49 and read 14692 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
I disagree. On my last visit to MAA, I saw a brand new international terminal(not operational yet). I am sure some portion of the budget went to politicians and bureaucrats, but at least MAA has a new terminal.

BLR, HYD, DEL, and (soon) CCU also have new terminals. Each of them could have been made for a fraction of the cost in a less corrupt country.

I'm not saying that infrastructure isn't coming up - it is... Just not at the rate and price-point which it needs to.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
Btw, MAA is getting a new subway system. I know a sub-contactor in MAA who is involved with this project, and hear a lot of stories on how funds get diverted. However, it is nowhere near the "most" characterization that you have used.

Please keep in mind that every subcontractor will have lots of stories. When you add all of the diversions together, it's absolutely amazing that a subway system is being created in the first place! Only in India...

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 8):
I will take a new terminal or subway over AI any day.

But you don't have the choice between a new terminal or AI. You have the choice period - the politicians choose. And even if you were a politician with the choice, your choice would be which official's pocket to line, not the actual product which comes out of it...

The point you're missing sir is that at the end of the day, corruption and vote banks are what drives the system. Air India exists not because somebody thinks that it will help the people of India, or it will make money. AI exists to make money for the politicians in charge, to attract the vote banks (unions), to blackmail competitors ("we'll drop prices to unprofitable levels unless you send a cheque"), or to help them ("we'll drop this profitable route we developed so that you can take it over - cheque please").

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2012-10-14 16:01:04 and read 14654 times.

Maybe I missed the discussion, but what's the scoop on this?

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-...to-halt-flights-through-oct-dot-20

Quote:
MUMBAI, India (AP) — An Indian court Friday ordered the arrest of the highflying owner of Kingfisher Airlines for bouncing checks, adding to the beleaguered airline's woes as its struggles to resume flights that have been grounded since the start of the month.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-14 16:03:30 and read 14655 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 11):
Maybe I missed the discussion, but what's the scoop on this?

He's been out of the country. Whenever he gets back, he'll get bail immediately.

*yawn* There are other things to be followed up on...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2012-10-14 16:52:33 and read 14632 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 12):

No doubt he has enough cash he's saved up from not paying employees to pay off whomever he needs.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-14 18:12:32 and read 14612 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
No doubt he has enough cash he's saved up from not paying employees to pay off whomever he needs.

No, that's not it. Here in India, we have this concept called anticipatory bail, where you can get bail before you even get an arrest warrant against you. So even though this warrant is non-bailable, the anticipatory bail (if Mallya has filed for it) will allow him to remain scot free until the case is quietly dropped.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: golfradio
Posted 2012-10-14 18:38:23 and read 14605 times.

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 9):

Great shot! I have a lot of memories from the Kalina OPS center. Is AI going to keep the maintenance facilities in BOM or is it going to move to DEL as well.   
I really resent the new DEL centric focus for AI. With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2012-10-14 19:12:19 and read 14581 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):

Fantastic...sounds like the perfect gift for a man who has everything...except, (soon enough), an airline.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2012-10-14 23:33:03 and read 14510 times.

Air India celebrating 80 years of commencing operations. Oct 15th 1932 was the first flight as Tata Airlines.

From wiki:

Quote:
On 15 October 1932, J.R.D. Tata flew a single-engined De Havilland Puss Moth carrying air mail (postal mail of Imperial Airways) from Karachi's Drigh Road Aerodrome to Bombay's Juhu Airstrip via Ahmedabad. The aircraft continued to Madras via Bellary piloted by Vintcent (aviator Nevill Vintcent)

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2012-10-14 23:59:18 and read 14500 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 14):

I was going to quote you in #16 but I missed.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-15 01:32:51 and read 14463 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 3):
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 2):
Kerala pressing ahead with airline project to serve ME destinations by April 2013. It is not clear if they will be able to get a waiver from the ministry on the five year/20 aircraft rule.

If it ever materialises, Air Kerala has a better chance at long term profitably than AI as the equity share of state govt. will be less than 26%.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya...27.xml§ion=international&col=
Quote:
The Kerala Government is pressing ahead with a plan to materialise a popular demand to launch the state’s own airline — Air Kerala — after weighing the challenges currently faced by the global aviation sector, Ramesh Chennithala, the head of the state unit of the ruling Congress Party, said on Tuesday.

The Kerala government’s plan is to launch Air Kerala with five leased aircraft. Initially, the focus of operation will be destinations in the Middle East, which has a large concentration of expatriate Keralites.

It's an idiotic idea, and will probably flop.

And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-15 15:49:11 and read 14316 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 19):
And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.

GoAir has been lobbying hard to get it removed - I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped in the near future.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-16 04:46:52 and read 14218 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 19):
And no exceptions should be made to the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. Either abolish it completely or enforce it strictly.

Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule. Additionally NG bourghtoff Sahara only to stave off competition on the Intl sector, a right they had acquired and leveraged in valuation.

KFA went into the disasterous takeover of DN and ended up taking ownership of its poorly contracted leases and aircraft purchase with an eye on flying abroad, VM in his arrogance grounded the DN fleet to his owm misery. After Virgin if there was any airline brand that attracted more droolling punters, it was KFA. They could have slowly but surely taken all their orders and successfully deployed these new jets with the same pax that now fly BA, EK or SQ.

The squashing of this rule will result in more competiton by India based airline, rather than an EK, EY, SQ or QR dumping their excess capacity into India and killing Indian airlines. This will benefit Indian travellers, Indian workers and the Indian economy. The south of India has adequate pax catchment to develop multiple city pairs to neighbouring countries to break the stranglehold of the hubs in ME or SE-Asia.The same is true for the western belt, Vadodra,Surat, Pune, Nagpur, Ratnagiri all have the potential for flts to BAH, SHJ or RAK.LCC based there like Air Asia or Air Arabia are evidence to this fact.

I cannot understand how does anybody morally support this rule if they have a genuine interest in the development of Indian aviation. Get rid of this rule forthwith, unconditionally.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-16 12:42:24 and read 14100 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule. Additionally NG bourghtoff Sahara only to stave off competition on the Intl sector, a right they had acquired and leveraged in valuation.

WHAT?

This rule most certainly did not kill IT and I7. Their own stupidity and mismanagement did. IT had no business model, and probably wouldn't have survived regardless.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-16 13:03:44 and read 14082 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Get rid of this rule forthwith, unconditionally.

CM of Kerala is confident that Air Kerala will be given a waiver from the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. He has cited AI express as an example.

One can only hope that instead of a waiver, Air Kerala is accommodated by rescission of the current rule.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-16 13:22:47 and read 14073 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
CM of Kerala is confident that Air Kerala will be given a waiver from the 5 year/20 aircraft rule. He has cited AI express as an example.

IX was given waiver because it was a wholly owned subsidiary of an airline which met requirements. Similarly, CD or S2 would be able to operate internationally if they didn't meet requirements.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 23):
One can only hope that instead of a waiver, Air Kerala is accommodated by rescission of the current rule.

Absolutely!

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-17 01:17:14 and read 14063 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule.

I thought it was bad management  
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 20):
GoAir has been lobbying hard to get it removed - I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped in the near future.

Strong possibility.

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 9):
GoAir has been lobbying hard to get it removed - I wouldn't be surprised to see it dropped in the near future.

Cool picture.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-10-17 08:55:41 and read 13965 times.

Is GMR playing around with Mallya? Get a judge to order issue of non-bailable warrants, but then not pay the court fees so that the NBW is not issued. http://www.livemint.com/Companies/TI...t-Mallya-over-bounced-cheques.html

Sort holding a Damocles sword over the Big Boss?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-17 10:55:16 and read 14046 times.

Kingfisher Airlines settles GMR dues, warrants against Vijay Mallya withdrawn.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...withdrawn/articleshow/16854770.cms

Quote:
The ailing airline Kingfisher AirlinesBSE 5.00 % (KFA) has on Wednesday cleared the Rs 10.5 crore of dues to GMR, the owner of Hyderabad International Airport, and arrived at a settlement to cancel the non-bailable warrants served on its chairman Vijay Mallya and four senior executives.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2012-10-17 16:37:56 and read 13993 times.

I have a question about the terminal construction work on at BOM......are they going to build a new large terminal which will handle both domestic and international, like DEL? If so, what will happen to the domestic terminals in future? If not, is any better link between the two terminals planned?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-18 03:07:19 and read 13892 times.

DGCA rejects Kingfisher Airlines winter schedule; stock down

''The minister added that disgruntled and unpaid employees are a risk''

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...tock-down/articleshow/16861459.cms

Atlast, some common sense has dawned upon the MoCA/DGCA wherein they admit the risk of disgruntled employees working on Pax aircrafts.

Coming back to the ''5yr/20ac rule''. This major barrier to entry stops competition from entering the markets.
1. What we are witnessing this winter in India is a form of cartelisation where the existing players decide on a base fare and deploy capacity to match it. In short there is an agreement between the top and bottom of the sector to carve out the market, this is obviously not healthy for the pax, economy or the airlines themselves. The reason being that International airlines competing with the domestic carriers will damage the lower tier Indian airlines i.e. AI, which will react by deploying excess capacity into the domestic sector and then the whole bun fight starts all over again.

2. New entrants bring a fresh approach to the competition and a sound management can make the difference. I mention this observing the growth of Ryan Air and Easyjet. When EZY started in LTN, the existing players created every possible hurdle, but due to their solid biz plan and shrewd focused management they managed to beat every competiton, same with FR across europe. The freedom to start a route was their greatest weapon in fighting the competition where the created new routes and targeted the existing cartels.

3. The 5yr rule is so debilitating that growth for 5yrs at a steady pace reaching 20 aircrafts is next to impossible in a market which is dominanted by the likes of AI at the bottom end. GO is eveidence of this, its hardly an encouraging sign for any entrepreneur.

4. I can understand the argument that others had to bear this, especially 9W, which struggled for long before they were allowed to fly (i wont get into how NG managed to start-up with 100%FDI and now they are questioning his holding) but then we can't be stuck in an evidently draconian rule, there has to be a change in this. Even the argument to lower this to say 3yrs or 2yrs is defeating, Because there are many Intl city pairs that might be low yielding than say metro routes within India however these could be profitable enough for the start-up helping stimulate the market there.

5. Inspite of all his mistakes, you have to credit DN for changing the mindset in the market. Subsequent to his entry 6E and SG started too and now you see where they are, 9W and AI stuck to their biz models and most of the rules are protecting them. 9W is behaving more like a national airline and encouraging this cartelisation, i can see it merging with AI in the not so distant future.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-10-18 08:00:18 and read 13797 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 29):
9W is behaving more like a national airline and encouraging this cartelisation, i can see it merging with AI in the not so distant future.

Unless AI is back in profits, I don't see that happening, so if at all this were to happen it would be in a rather distant future.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2012-10-18 09:22:59 and read 13774 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 29):
9W is behaving more like a national airline and encouraging this cartelisation, i can see it merging with AI in the not so distant future.

Why on earth would 9W want to merge with AI?  

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-18 14:54:12 and read 13688 times.

Latest data on market share.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...s-further/articleshow/16866326.cms

Quote:
Low cost carrier IndiGo has maintained its lead as market leader for the third successive month by flying the largest number of passengers in the domestic skies with a market share of 27.2% in September, while air traffic shrank further.

Meanwhile, while erstwhile market leader Jet Airways' share in the domestic passenger pie shrunk further to 23.8% compared with the last month when it carried 25.2%, Air India expanded its market share flying 19.3% travelers.

While trouble stricken Kingfiher Airlines share hovered around at 3.5%, those of budget carriers SpiceJet and GoAir remained static compared with August at 18.5% and 7.6% respectively.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-10-18 15:34:57 and read 13679 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 32):
IndiGo has maintained its lead as market leader for the third successive month by flying the largest number of passengers in the domestic skies with a market share of 27.2% in September

Very interesting.

This ties in with Winter flight planning:
http://articles.economictimes.indiat...sher-airlines-flights-alliance-air

From above:
IndiGo would operate 2,447 flights, compared to 1,879 last year,
SpiceJet 2,233 compared to 2,051
GoAir 675 as against 588.
Air India-Alliance Air would operate 2,169 flights, compared to 2,313 last year
Jet Airways-JetLite would together fly 3,369 services compared to 3,780 in 2011

Significantly, the flight schedule of crisis-ridden Kingfisher Airlines has not been approved by aviation regulator DGCA. Kingfisher, which has declared a lockout till October 20 with its employees on strike to demand pending wages, had last year flown 2,930 flights.

The trend favors the low cost operator. Interesting that there is a 19% drop in Indian flights YOY. If IT doesn't restart flying, that is a significant contraction.

Kingfisher keeps extending the lockout, now to November 5th:
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/jc...ends-lockout-until-5-November.html


Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-18 22:50:23 and read 13590 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 33):
Interesting that there is a 19% drop in Indian flights YOY. If IT doesn't restart flying, that is a significant contraction.

A significant contraction in flights, but I expect passenger numbers not to decline as much as the current aggregate load factor is around 80%. Expect full flights at higher prices, and perhaps higher aggregate profits for the industry.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-10-18 22:59:43 and read 13591 times.

I did an analysis of the Q2 FY2013 passenger numbers. Within the quarter itself (not year on year) i.e. July to September passenger numbers are down 11.5%. 9W is down almost 21%. IndiGo almost 11%  

Air fares are a huge driver, as PLFs are below 70%.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-18 23:16:20 and read 13585 times.

Kingfisher Airlines stares at licence suspension.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...uspension/articleshow/16873079.cms

Quote:
Crisis-ridden Kingfisher Airlines could be on the verge of having its flying licence suspended. Like scores of its unpaid employees, vendors and service providers, the aviation ministry is also going to look for real money - and not just promises or timelines to pay - in the reply the airline has to file to Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA)'s notice by Saturday.

Unless convinced that Kingfisher has the resources to operate as a schedule airline and maintain its timetable of flights with full safety, highly placed aviation authorities say they will go for licence suspension. "Kingfisher is on cash and carry by most service providers. We do not want a situation where the airline restarts operations and then keeps flying in fits and starts whenever its unpaid employees are not on strike and the service providers refusing to service it. We have seen enough of that since last November," said a senior official.

A formal decision on the airline's licence could be taken next week.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-10-18 23:28:50 and read 13586 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models and had a fair chance to succeed had it not been for this one rule.

Completely disagree. Indias domestic market is where most of the value is for Indian carriers. KFA had a poor businrss plan, poor management, more money than brains (today they are bankrupt but hopefully wiser), and an owner who did things based on his whim. That is why KFA has collapsed. Paramount just had the wrong business model.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-19 00:57:03 and read 13542 times.

Airline owners need to get proper motivated & functioning managers to run their company.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-19 05:45:39 and read 13483 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 37):
Completely disagree. Indias domestic market is where most of the value is for Indian carriers. KFA had a poor businrss plan, poor management, more money than brains (today they are bankrupt but hopefully wiser), and an owner who did things based on his whim. That is why KFA has collapsed. Paramount just had the wrong business model.

The value proposition is enhanced with a Intl network, a purely domestic network is only profitable on the Trunk routes while others struggle KFA as a brand, during its launch was at its peak,they targeted the top cream. Evidence of success of that is the better pricing they commanded, the oneworld alliance and their impact resulted in Virgin exiting BOM. Undoubtedly KFA has been mismanaged however the decision to buy DN was thrust upon them due to the 5yr rule.

If you claim, 6E as having been thru the pain of the 5yr rule, i'll have to highlight they ordered 100 aircrafts to start with, significant discounts would have been secured on this purchase. A sale-lease back with even 5% profits on each aircraft would have seen them cushioned against the vagaries of domestic sector.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 31):
Why on earth would 9W want to merge with AI?

Its been less than 24hrs since my last post and the figures for Aug-Sept show AI going past 9W, obviously its been due to AI's lower tik prices affecting the only other full service carrier 9W, as predicted in my post on the reaction of the lower segment of the market.
I do admit it sound very far fetched but looking at the above scenario where now the most significant competitor for 9W is AI, what does gaming theory tell you ? Additionally going by their previous move to buy S2, which i said earlier as in the case of KFA-DN was a forced decision, an AI with a lower head count and new aircrafts alongwith its significant routes can be surely merged with 9W. In case KFA losses its license, the Govt owned FIs will be taking a huge hit, why can't the govt offer a similar write off in the case of AI with a chance to survive. The govt is actively talking of consolidation in the industry, this could be it.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-10-19 09:36:46 and read 13417 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 39):
If you claim, 6E as having been thru the pain of the 5yr rule, i'll have to highlight they ordered 100 aircrafts to start with, significant discounts would have been secured on this purchase. A sale-lease back with even 5% profits on each aircraft would have seen them cushioned against the vagaries of domestic sector.

Exactly. They had a solid strategy and business plan as well as sound management, all of the above did not happen accidentally.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 39):
Evidence of success of that is the better pricing they commanded, the oneworld alliance and their impact resulted in Virgin exiting BOM.

Until their final year, KFA was priced at a discount to full service airlines both domestically and internationally. Oneworld alliance was only because Jet for a long time was anti-alliance, and then seemed to lean closer to both Star and SkyTeam. KFA was the only available option for OW. Certainly not their preferred option. Air-India was a non-option.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-10-19 09:53:10 and read 13423 times.

A good write-up on the Kingfisher saga here (except the author evidently does not know the meaning of the word "pulchritude")

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main54....sp?filename=Op271012Kingfisher.asp

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-19 11:28:44 and read 13365 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 40):
Exactly. They had a solid strategy and business plan as well as sound management, all of the above did not happen accidentally

Well not many start-ups across the world can place an order for 100 aircrafts, unless offcource you are a Rakesh gangwal or a David neeleman. The point i mentioned and support throughout is the fact that KFA/VJM was forced to take the disasterous of buying DN simply because of the 5yr rule (DN had an order for 60+ aircrafts at the time of buyout, in 2012, IIRC 64 of the 92 aircrafts with KFA were DN orders). Had that rule been missing the outcome would have been definately a lot better.


Quoting sankaps (Reply 40):
Until their final year

Pleased to see you accept they commanded a premium for over 5yrs of their 6yr ops, this was inspite of the steady decline.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 40):
Oneworld alliance was only because Jet for a long time was anti-alliance, and then seemed to lean closer to both Star and SkyTeam. KFA was the only available option for OW.

Again here they managed to get into the alliance at a very early stage, which reflected on acceptance by a leading industry benchmark.

[Edited 2012-10-19 11:40:33]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-19 12:23:09 and read 13345 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 42):
Well not many start-ups across the world can place an order for 100 aircrafts, unless offcource you are a Rakesh gangwal or a David neeleman. The point i mentioned and support throughout is the fact that KFA/VJM was forced to take the disasterous of buying DN simply because of the 5yr rule (DN had an order for 60+ aircrafts at the time of buyout, in 2012, IIRC 64 of the 92 aircrafts with KFA were DN orders). Had that rule been missing the outcome would have been definately a lot better.

I'm still not following your logic. Kingfisher didn't have to do anything. There is plenty of unexploited potential in the domestic market, as SG has been demonstrating with many of their new routes.

The reason IT bought DN was to feed Vijay Mallya's ego. If it was analyzed from a business perspective, even the most incompetent manager would know what a disaster it would turn out to be. So much debt, so many unneeded orders, such a poor state of operations.

You're using the 5 year rule as a scapegoat for Kingfisher's poor management.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-19 12:42:58 and read 13332 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43):
You're using the 5 year rule as a scapegoat for Kingfisher's poor management.

Why wasn't IT able to get the ministry to drop the five year rule? Larger suitcases from Deccan and Jet?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-19 13:29:29 and read 13319 times.

Air India invites bids for 12 of its 23 floors in its Nariman Point building. Is it planning to keep the rest for its BOM staff? Do they need that many floors if the HQ will be in DEL?

http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...-building/articleshow/16879870.cms

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-19 13:38:25 and read 13312 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 45):
Air India invites bids for 12 of its 23 floors in its Nariman Point building. Is it planning to keep the rest for its BOM staff? Do they need that many floors if the HQ will be in DEL?

Many floors are already leased out...

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 44):
Why wasn't IT able to get the ministry to drop the five year rule? Larger suitcases from Deccan and Jet?

Probably. Or maybe they thought it would be more cost-effective to buy DN than get the rule changed, Who knows.

The point is that it was a stupid decision from the start.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-19 14:12:54 and read 13302 times.

Air India offers five Boeing 777LRs for sale.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-for-sale/articleshow/16880243.cms

The largest operators of 772LRs are EK, Delta, Qatar, and AC. Will any of them be interested? How about Ethiopian? Any airline that does not operate this type but could use it for the right price?

Since AI has eight 772LRs, they must be planning to keep three. What current routes would the LRs make more sense than 77W or 788? They would need 772LRs if they are planning on offering non-stop to SFO/LAX.

Why can't the GOI buy one for President/PM of India?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-19 14:14:54 and read 13295 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 44):
Why wasn't IT able to get the ministry to drop the five year rule? Larger suitcases from Deccan and Jet?

Surely, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to suggest S2 had the blessings of S.Pawar. Amby valley the subroto roy project in Lonavala is right next to the controversial Lavasa project and had the blessings of Pawar, as stated by himself. The 2004 edition of India today had N.Goyal among the top 5 industrialist close to the congress camp. Capt Gopi happens to come from the same village as Devegowda, conveniently.

Crony capitalism is like the mafia, where the Don carves out territories for all to keep the peace, some do end up drawing the short straw.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2012-10-19 16:52:14 and read 13258 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 39):
I do admit it sound very far fetched but looking at the above scenario where now the most significant competitor for 9W is AI, what does gaming theory tell you ? Additionally going by their previous move to buy S2, which i said earlier as in the case of KFA-DN was a forced decision, an AI with a lower head count and new aircrafts alongwith its significant routes can be surely merged with 9W. In case KFA losses its license, the Govt owned FIs will be taking a huge hit, why can't the govt offer a similar write off in the case of AI with a chance to survive. The govt is actively talking of consolidation in the industry, this could be it.

I get what you're hinting at......however, I'm not too sure of how familiar you are with Indian matters.....in my opinion, the owners of 9W wouldn't go anywhere near AI, even if it was available......dealing with the GOI, the unions (especially the unions!!) and all walks of political parties, all of whom would pitch in to make their opinions known strongly.......it's a sure shot formula for ensuring disaster shortly down the line......just look at the merger of AI and IC (two govt owned airlines) and see the mess created....even their pilots don't see eye to eye!!

9W surely has growth plans for the future, but there are better ways to grow in the Indian market.......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2012-10-19 19:00:41 and read 13238 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 47):

Since AI has eight 772LRs, they must be planning to keep three. What current routes would the LRs make more sense than 77W or 788? They would need 772LRs if they are planning on offering non-stop to SFO/LAX.

Was AI even planning for LAX or SFO?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-19 19:49:06 and read 13254 times.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 49):
I get what you're hinting at......however, I'm not too sure of how familiar you are with Indian matters.....in my opinion, the owners of 9W wouldn't go anywhere near AI, even if it was available......dealing with the GOI, the unions (especially the unions!!) and all walks of political parties, all of whom would pitch in to make their opinions known strongly.......it's a sure shot formula for ensuring disaster shortly down the line......just look at the merger of AI and IC (two govt owned airlines) and see the mess created....even their pilots don't see eye to eye!!

9W surely has growth plans for the future, but there are better ways to grow in the Indian market.......

9W is owned by the same people who run AI. Surely they could come up with a deal for themselves...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-10-19 21:43:42 and read 13224 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 42):
Well not many start-ups across the world can place an order for 100 aircrafts, unless offcource you are a Rakesh gangwal or a David neeleman. The point i mentioned and support throughout is the fact that KFA/VJM was forced to take the disasterous of buying DN simply because of the 5yr rule (DN had an order for 60+ aircrafts at the time of buyout, in 2012, IIRC 64 of the 92 aircrafts with KFA were DN orders). Had that rule been missing the outcome would have been definately a lot better.

No. They simply perspective in their ego-driven desire to fly int'l. And you are conveniently forgetting the fact that int'l flights lost them even more money!

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 42):
Pleased to see you accept they commanded a premium for over 5yrs of their 6yr ops, this was inspite of the steady decline.

No. They commanded a premium on only one of the 6 years (in their final full year), because they raised fares as a desperate attempt to stem the bleeding. In all of their other years, they discounted heavily, especially on international.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43):
I'm still not following your logic. Kingfisher didn't have to do anything. There is plenty of unexploited potential in the domestic market, as SG has been demonstrating with many of their new routes.

The reason IT bought DN was to feed Vijay Mallya's ego. If it was analyzed from a business perspective, even the most incompetent manager would know what a disaster it would turn out to be. So much debt, so many unneeded orders, such a poor state of operations.

Exactly!

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-10-19 23:26:31 and read 13213 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 21):
Enforcement of this single rule has resulted in the demise of KFA now and Paramount in the past. Both the airlines were excellent biz models

WHAT?

It was by far the worst business model in the airline industry.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 39):
vidence of success of that is the better pricing they commanded, the oneworld alliance and their impact resulted in Virgin exiting BOM

Again incorrect,

When VS left BOM, IT was not even invited to join OW. IT started the route in January 2009 and by May 2009 VS withdrew.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 50):
Was AI even planning for LAX or SFO?

LAX no, SFO yes.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-20 02:42:03 and read 13178 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 46):
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 45):
Air India invites bids for 12 of its 23 floors in its Nariman Point building. Is it planning to keep the rest for its BOM staff? Do they need that many floors if the HQ will be in DEL?

Many floors are already leased out...

Mainly to the Tata's - TCS is HQ'ed there

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 43):
The reason IT bought DN was to feed Vijay Mallya's ego. If it was analyzed from a business perspective, even the most incompetent manager would know what a disaster it would turn out to be. So much debt, so many unneeded orders, such a poor state of operations.

You're using the 5 year rule as a scapegoat for Kingfisher's poor management.

Mallya had no business ordering A330's and A380's in 'anticipation' of the rules changing - which Mallya was 'sure' he culd manage with some ministers backing him. What Mallya did not know is that his outsize ego upset enough other people in the Cabinet and they made a concerted effort to not change the law - even though the airlines had a point. SpiceJet and Indigo also complained about the law but went about doing their business.

Now, I understand that Captain GR Gopinath is 'feted' by the media for several reasons, but as a mediaperson I have met Gopi enough times - he is what I would call a compulsive confessor; calling him involved a one-hour lecture on among other things the sexual adventures of Naresh Goyal and PP (involving a 9W air-hostess, then married to a 9W FO and now post 'augmentation' is a Bollywood starlet, the 9W pilot thankfully moved on to nicer girl) and how NG 'personally' sabotaged' the engine on Deccan's first ATR flight (which caught fire)... anyhoo, long story short, Gopi had a horrific business model. In the line-up of crappy Indian aviation business model's Gopi's was only marginally better than Sahara's. Gopi even tried to make his delivery slots fungible with a deal with RBS, which made Airbus go apoplectic with rage. His IPO was doomed to failure and he had no choice but to go under... or to use a Hindi term, find a 'murga' and he found a big, fat murga.
Now, IT as a smallish airline with 25-odd planes was a good airline growing fairly well. Had that IT kept growing, with the international routes then coming in 2010, I guess it would have been fine. We never know what happened in that parallel dimension. However, mallya had bought his 332's and 345's and they were about to come and well, he had to fly them places. Now, Mallya had some friends in the government (our new President as FM enabled him to get the favorable debt-equity conversion apparently) but the then (and now) FinMin doesn't like him too much (I shall refrain from Delhi gossip here) and was the prime mover in the law not being changed.
Instead of losing face and placing the 332's in a temporary home (like 9W did with their 77W's) or even finding a new home for the 345's when he could have which after the US economy slipped was impossible, Mallya bought out Gopi. Some of us, who have covered the aviation sector for years were aghast, we had seen Deccan's financials from their IPO filings and after that, and well they were this close to insolvency. Of course, in the process of his desperation Mallya also made 9W take their worst business decision ever and buy of Sahara (although that means that one fatty can't bail the other fatty out now thanks to no-compete clauses, even though Sahara Shri has to find Rs 40,000 crore from somewhere to get SEBI off its back.... another story)...
The events following that are well documented here...
This was a train crash bound to happen; Mallya's ego was far to big, his refusal to lose face in 2007 and meant a massive fall in 2012. The Mallya brand is so tainted it isn't funny...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-20 02:48:23 and read 13153 times.

The end of good times.........sad for the employees.....

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 47):

Why can't the GOI buy one for President/PM of India?

True.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-10-20 06:30:48 and read 13130 times.

Effective W12 SQ and ET will code share on each other's flights between DEL and SIN. SQ is also expected to announce additional 5 weekly DEL - SIN soon departing 1100 hrs ish from DEL.

[Edited 2012-10-20 06:41:07]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-20 08:48:35 and read 13088 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 53):
It was by far the worst business model in the airline industry.

It was no different from QR, the only diff being QR have an assortment of Intl girls and loads of LPG backing their model. KFA had 100% Indian birds and loads of Barley and Ale backing it.........seriously he did change the game in India. I remember whilst working in BOM for Flyglobespan on the leased B767, all the Brit crew were gaga about KFA.

As a brand he had got just about everything right, his logo, Interiors with the Bordello Red, the girls and their uniform. Many of my friends are Traders of Nagpur, they are heavily into the news, infact one of them was the agent for PP, anyways it was thru these folks that i got to know whats the most in thing intravel in India. Previously it was BA 'J' class and with KFA it was none other than ''Lalwali''.

To be honest, my interest in Paramount was purely because of the E-Jets. Had they been allowed to fly Intl, they would have surely survived with the all Biz class gradually reducing into a dual class. There are plenty of sectors where the E-Jets are ideal for the pax catchment. There loads of T-2 cities in India with a large biz community earning in excess of $100k/yr. In their case too, they were carrying on till they reached the 5yr goal post.


Quoting ojas (Reply 53):
When VS left BOM, IT was not even invited to join OW. IT started the route in January 2009 and by May 2009 VS withdrew.

Thanks for the dates they vindicate my point, i never said their entry into Oneworld resulted in VS's exit.

With the near demise of KFA, i hope we have some solid debate on the ills affecting aviation in India. Personally i do not have any hopes on this, the reason being crony capitalism where the Press is part of this whole biz of doing biz, rather than being a genuine adjudicator by putting the plain facts on board you see them more as advertorial writters. Here is a fantastic article on this in the FT http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/0eb44760-1907-11e2-af88-00144feabdc0.html It gives a very good picture of how every body in India are living in cuckoo land. I do realise i write this in the secure comforts of my home in UK but believe me i've tried hard twice to put my money where my mouth is, but end of the day i had to come back to feed the littleones in the nest. I tried to engage everyone from the Industry, Airlines, DGCA and the unions, all had their heads up their backside. The DGCA is the worst, where they do not implement on the new rules and retain the old system because it allows for graft, infact there is a collusion with unions in AI to further their vested interests.
Those who encourage the ME airlines or the EU airlines increasing their flts into India have to realise that it will start with the Airlines and then the services industry next will be encouraged to move to ME with the manf industry or whatever is left of it, following.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-20 09:24:23 and read 13072 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 54):
This was a train crash bound to happen; Mallya's ego was far to big, his refusal to lose face in 2007 and meant a massive fall in 2012. The Mallya brand is so tainted it isn't funny...

If it weren't for the plight of the employees, I'd think it's quite funny. I wouldn't have thought it was humanly possible to squander so much of daddy's liquor money. All I can say is that he deserves it.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 57):
It was no different from QR, the only diff being QR have an assortment of Intl girls and loads of LPG backing their model. KFA had 100% Indian birds and loads of Barley and Ale backing it.........seriously he did change the game in India. I remember whilst working in BOM for Flyglobespan on the leased B767, all the Brit crew were gaga about KFA.

As a brand he had got just about everything right, his logo, Interiors with the Bordello Red, the girls and their uniform. Many of my friends are Traders of Nagpur, they are heavily into the news, infact one of them was the agent for PP, anyways it was thru these folks that i got to know whats the most in thing intravel in India. Previously it was BA 'J' class and with KFA it was none other than ''Lalwali''.

Kingfisher did do its branding in an impressive manner. However, branding does not make a business model. Virgin America has great branding, and they look like a train-wreck waiting to happen as well.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 57):
To be honest, my interest in Paramount was purely because of the E-Jets. Had they been allowed to fly Intl, they would have surely survived with the all Biz class gradually reducing into a dual class. There are plenty of sectors where the E-Jets are ideal for the pax catchment. There loads of T-2 cities in India with a large biz community earning in excess of $100k/yr. In their case too, they were carrying on till they reached the 5yr goal post.

if you want E-jets in India, you will get your wish fairly soon. There are 2 startups which expect to get off the ground soon, one in BLR and one in HYD, with E-jets.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-20 09:42:37 and read 13072 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 57):
To be honest, my interest in Paramount was purely because of the E-Jets. Had they been allowed to fly Intl, they would have surely survived with the all Biz class gradually reducing into a dual class. There are plenty of sectors where the E-Jets are ideal for the pax catchment. There loads of T-2 cities in India with a large biz community earning in excess of $100k/yr. In their case too, they were carrying on till they reached the 5yr goal post.

You don't want to get me started on Thiagrajan; the last media org I worked for had two folks who were 'fida' over him and believed his business plans to the max. He did try to get a deal with the Wadia's - and I haven't heard much about them for a while, they seem to be very, very quiet (not a bad thing) - this was again a slightly weird biz plan. The E-Jets - 175's in particular were sub-optimal MAA-IXM or MAA-BLR or MAA-TVM - These are AT7 or Q400 sectors, jets do not make a palpable time difference on such sectors - the MAA-PNQ flight they started towards the end was actually the best use of the E175 they did.

Paramount started with MAA-DEL where the E175 was well, underkill, far too small and far too high a CASM for the sector which is why they withdrew. Instead of going after long, thin routes even from Chennai and there are several that they could have come up with he went the easy route. The 'bunkum' that Thiagrajan used to always say about 2-2 seating that "we are the only ones to offer such seating throughout the aircraft" once prompted me to ask him to show me a Embraer with 3-3 seating. That is what the plane was built with, not particular to them.

You're right there are loads of cities in India that Paramount could have served had they thought this plan through and used the planes on routes above 500km in stage length or routes where KFA and 9W weren't going hammer and tongs against them, and when SpiceJet joined the mix.... But they didn't.

SpiceJet has made a smart move by getting the Q400's and basing them in MAA and DEL. I believe they can make their prop plan work, but I still believe that India needs 2,3,4 dedicated regional carriers based in cities like AMD, TVM, LKO, GAU and so on

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-10-20 10:26:28 and read 13045 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 57):
It was no different from QR, the only diff being QR have an assortment of Intl girls and loads of LPG backing their model. KFA had 100% Indian birds and loads of Barley and Ale backing it.........seriously he did change the game in India. I remember whilst working in BOM for Flyglobespan on the leased B767, all the Brit crew were gaga about KFA.

As a brand he had got just about everything right, his logo, Interiors with the Bordello Red, the girls and their uniform. Many of my friends are Traders of Nagpur, they are heavily into the news, infact one of them was the agent for PP, anyways it was thru these folks that i got to know whats the most in thing intravel in India

It is easy to make an impressive brand when you are least bothered about the cost structure or the spending discipline and the same thing is applicable to QR to an extent. I will give IT the credit of branding themselves much better than many of their rivals, but all of that was at a HUGE cost and sadly that cost today is the airline's very existence.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-20 11:10:23 and read 13045 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 59):
SpiceJet has made a smart move by getting the Q400's and basing them in MAA and DEL. I believe they can make their prop plan work, but I still believe that India needs 2,3,4 dedicated regional carriers based in cities like AMD, TVM, LKO, GAU and so on

My opinion of Paramount was based on observing the likes of Flybe or LH operating the E-Jets here in EU. There are many T-2 cities in India with seizeable population of 25-55yr olds that would love to make a trip abroad, if only to hold a passport and get it stamped.
Cities like Indore, Vadodra, Pune, Coimbatore, Madurai, Vizak, Jaipur, Nagpur, Raipur, Ranchi, Patna, Bhubaneshwar etc etc have tremendous potential to create a decent pax catchment. DXB/BKK are popular ''Stress release'' centres for not only the Shop based traders but also the office bound babus.
When you limit an aircraft to an alreday saturated domestic market, stimulating that market is very difficult however if you can allow it to fly unhindered, subject to route dispersal within the radius of its flying range, infinite possibilities are created. Aviation is a very interesting industry and aircrafts are fascinating engineering marvels.
Each aircraft type has its USP but the biggest catalyst is the Fuel cost. I have worked in this industry for the last 25yrs and the price of oil has avg $25/barrel for 18 of these 25 yrs. It was only after the Yanks entered Iraq and then AF-PAK did the fuel price start to climb to $100/brl. This has been on the back of record oil discoveries across the world however the consumption at the same time increased very marginally IIRC not more than 5%, the reason being the USA motorist was the largest consumer of oil at 25% of the worlds production and also the airplanes that flew earlier were heavy gas guzzlers. Tech made both extremely efficient at a very fast pace.

You highlight the turbo-props, many of the prop manf were on the verge of shutting shop due to falling sales, this was when Oil sold at $18/brl. Qatar was reeling under a recession with deficits, Abudhabi and Saudi were panicking about future of their young population, and i was working for EK then so know it first hand being in the gulf. It was in this scenario that the E-Jets were launched and become immediately popular, many systems designed for these jets have been adopted by Airbus and Boeing. With a higher utilisation the E-Jets are popular/efficient over the T-Props.

Spice-jet also struggled during the 5yr period till going Intl, no wonder the ownership changed hands. We are just coming out of this period of Irrational exhuberance, as i mentioned earlier i have seen the middle - east at $18/brl. Yesterday they declared the first proven/successfull process to convert CO2 into petrol, they claim next is green aviation fuel. So don't get too carried away with the last 8yrs of this world or the UPA govt, the Yanks are now headed into Syria, Yemen etc. It could be that they exit from all of this alongwith AF-PAK in 2014, Hopefully fuel will be down from then on.
And a new govt in India gets rid of the 5yr rule alongwith AI under its ownership.............dream on.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-10-20 23:15:37 and read 12914 times.

A good article on the rise and fall of Kingfisher in the Daily Mail, of all places! An excellent read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome...-clean-mess.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-21 02:34:41 and read 12851 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 62):

A good article on the rise and fall of Kingfisher in the Daily Mail, of all places! An excellent read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome...wsxml

Mail Today - which provides all the news to the Daily Mail's India section. It is a JV between Daily Mail and India Today.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 61):
Spice-jet also struggled during the 5yr period till going Intl, no wonder the ownership changed hands.

Not quite true, SpiceJet international success has been limited going by their balance sheet. maybe the new routes could help them, but SpiceJet's venture into being a northern and southern regional carrier is what will make or break them, not international.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 61):
Each aircraft type has its USP but the biggest catalyst is the Fuel cost. I have worked in this industry for the last 25yrs and the price of oil has avg $25/barrel for 18 of these 25 yrs. It was only after the Yanks entered Iraq and then AF-PAK did the fuel price start to climb to $100/brl.

But all the Indian private carriers started after 9/11; and Indian ATF prices at least on domestic sectors have always been massively inflated. Jet-A is less refined than petrol and should technically be cheaper, but here, profits from ATF is used to subsidize diesel/LPG etc, etc.
My point with props should also include the fact that Jet, Deccan and Kingfisher gave ATR a lifeline when western carriers were going E-Jet and CRJ crazy, primarily because of the fact that fuel was always expensive in India and some tier-II cities had (and some like Patna still have) pathetic runways and airport facilities. To be fair to Praful Patel, he did initiate a massive spurt of construction across small airports in India. In cities like Udaipur, Benaras, Bagdogra, even Bhuj there are nice new terminals and longer and better surfaced runways.

The rules are the same for everyone; the rules might be idiotic, and airline ownership rules often are idiotic across the world, but they are the same for everyone in the private sector.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-21 03:48:37 and read 12824 times.

If the 5yr rule is withdrawn .... there could be better options for fresh starters vide FDI.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-21 04:05:48 and read 12835 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 63):
But all the Indian private carriers started after 9/11; and Indian ATF prices at least on domestic sectors have always been massively inflated. Jet-A is less refined than petrol and should technically be cheaper, but here, profits from ATF is used to subsidize diesel/LPG etc, etc.
My point with props should also include the fact that Jet, Deccan and Kingfisher gave ATR a lifeline when western carriers were going E-Jet and CRJ crazy, primarily because of the fact that fuel was always expensive in India and some tier-II cities had (and some like Patna still have) pathetic runways and airport facilities. To be fair to Praful Patel, he did initiate a massive spurt of construction across small airports in India. In cities like Udaipur, Benaras, Bagdogra, even Bhuj there are nice new terminals and longer and better surfaced runways.


You are ''missing the woods for the trees'', Let me correct you here ALL INDIAN PVT CARRIERS did not start after 9/11, 9W and S2 started much before. I am not sure about 9W but S2 did fly the CRJs of which one had crashed in GOA whilst i was there.
Pls don't wind me up by mentioning PP. In his 1yr AS has done more good to the MoCA then PP did in 5yrs. The small airports have to be developed but their growth is limited to domestic demand. Intl connections will help stimulate the market. There are plenty of regions, stations, cities with their own USP to an Intl pax market. If you see my first posts here, you will note mention of Bodh gaya which is now served by Thai based carriers, same is relevant for Tirupati or Varanasi etc. Once you allow these ports to direct Intl connections the dynamics change with best in the trade heading for these places creating all round development. AS is talking about state govt subsidizing regional airlines, they will do the same for these airlines if they can create adequate connectivity to Intl dest.
Ref spice and its domestic growth, there are plenty of chronicals on excess capacity in the domestic markets.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-10-21 05:24:57 and read 12811 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 64):
If the 5yr rule is withdrawn .... there could be better options for fresh starters vide FDI.

Ajit Singh has specifically ruled out FDI to start-ups. He has to protect Jet and IndiGo. I do not think 5 year rule is being withdrawn. GoAir has asked for relaxation of the 20 aircraft fleet size rule for international flights.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-21 23:02:55 and read 12649 times.

Govt to seek review of steep airport charges.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...t-charges/articleshow/16909081.cms

Quote:
A massive 12.4% slump in domestic passenger traffic in September — over the same month last year — has set off alarm bells in the government. Worried about the potentially disastrous impact it could have on already ailing airlines, the aviation ministry will ask the Airports Economic Regulatory Authority (AERA) to review airport charges as high user development fees levied on passengers is being seen as a deterrent to flying.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-22 00:19:08 and read 12621 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 65):
You are ''missing the woods for the trees'', Let me correct you here ALL INDIAN PVT CARRIERS did not start after 9/11, 9W and S2 started much before. I am not sure about 9W but S2 did fly the CRJs of which one had crashed in GOA whilst i was there.

I meant all the new carriers, my bad! 9W and S2 started in 1991-93 with many others. My point is basic, there have been bad business plans in the past in Indian aviation - look at all the failures from the class of 1991-93 including S2 finally, and look at the failures from the current batch. Only Jet survived - Modiluft-Royal-SpiceJet hardly counts, because the ministry considered them a 'new' airline when they started up in 2005 and they did not go international until 2010.

Regional routes will take time to build up, the problem is no mater how much Ajit Singh talks of government support, the fact is that India's fiscal deficit is out of control, and after Kingfisher's almost certain demise and while I wait for the CVC/CAG audits of SBI for funding them, Public Sector banks will almost certainly hesitate in funding airlines. In that sense, Mallya would have actually flown Indian aviation back a few years.

Is there excess capacity in India right now? I'm not so sure that there would be excess capacity if the economy wasn't visibly tanking. Things are not that great out here. Lets see how the Winter Session plays out; I'm praying for early elections in 2013.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-22 00:36:24 and read 12612 times.

Whats the progress on the Navi Mumbai airport.....Is there any work in progress apart from the signboard.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Lutfi
Posted 2012-10-22 00:38:53 and read 12616 times.

So, what is the latest on Indigo? Will they be one of the winners/ survivors in Indian aviation?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-22 01:38:54 and read 12599 times.

Quoting Lutfi (Reply 70):
So, what is the latest on Indigo? Will they be one of the winners/ survivors in Indian aviation?

Indigo is currently in profits in the Pax category....
Bluedart/DHL Air is in profits in the freighter category....
The rest are still trying to get into a better situation.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-22 03:58:08 and read 12559 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 68):
Is there excess capacity in India right now? I'm not so sure that there would be excess capacity if the economy wasn't visibly tanking.
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 67):
A massive 12.4% slump in domestic passenger traffic in September — over the same month last year — has set off alarm bells in the government

I have no doubts about excess capacity in Dom sector, based on this one report.

FR at the start of the new millenium had 40% of it pax traffic from Ireland, at the end its down to single digits. They have deployed most of their capacity outside of Ireland during the recession. These are basics of this industry, where capacity deployment cannot be hindered by a DISABLING rule. And utilisation is one of the keys to lowering costs.
The only juice in a KFA AOC lays in the Intl rights, if the banks were to ever sell the KFA AOC, you know for sure the 5yr/20ac rule will be slapped on the new owner like it was done to Modi-Luft/Royal/Spice.

AS has done quite a bit till date and is making further progress, India is a no brainer for any Airline, there loads of pax, no wonder the likes of BA, LH & EK have double digit revenue from India. Its the crab mentality of Indians and the crony political class that are creating the hurdles. If there is one policy that the Brits have a consensus across political parties, its about the need for a ''STRONG AVIATION INDUSTRY'', so one does not need be a politician, engineer or a journo to suss the imp of aviation for an economy. Especially a country like India with a huge young population hungry for jobs, English educated, headed to countries with ageing population. Ours is a Knowledge economy, Aviation is absolutely imp to maintain connectivity. This cannot be trusted with Brits, Germans or the Arabs.

Till date i've not read a single exhaustive report on Indian aviation in any of the Biz papers. I wonder what stops these Editors from doing it to highlight the lacunae in the system. DGCA is living in the days of the RAJ, Its busy organising the 100yr celeberation rather than implement present day processes and practises. A simple comparision between Indian DGCA and the UAE/SIN/AUS CAA will highlight how pathetic the system is. Its heavily manned by Leftist from Kerala, Bengal and a few Biharis. All of the KFA Engg staff and many from the Ops can be accomodated within DGCA to fill the shortages. Infact these guys have hands-on experience unlike the paper pushers in DGCA who got in due to nepotism.
Right now, nearly a 100 executives of Indian origin are retiring across the ME and S.E.Asia, these guys left the shore post the Janta rule nationalisation of AI. Their exp is absolutely invaluble, the MoCA can use them on 2yr consultancies. All the major aviation behemoths across world use the knowledge and exp of their retired personnel. Why is it not being done in India ?

I pray there is some introspection within the 4th estate in India towards a genuine impartial reporting on the way forward for Indian aviation.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-10-22 04:56:34 and read 12529 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 72):
Till date i've not read a single exhaustive report on Indian aviation in any of the Biz papers. I wonder what stops these Editors from doing it to highlight the lacunae in the system. DGCA is living in the days of the RAJ, Its busy organising the 100yr celeberation rather than implement present day processes and practises. A simple comparision between Indian DGCA and the UAE/SIN/AUS CAA will highlight how pathetic the system is. Its heavily manned by Leftist from Kerala, Bengal and a few Biharis. All of the KFA Engg staff and many from the Ops can be accomodated within DGCA to fill the shortages. Infact these guys have hands-on experience unlike the paper pushers in DGCA who got in due to nepotism.

        

Couldn't agree more.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2012-10-22 06:46:58 and read 12502 times.

Again, I have to thank you guys for provided us with the inside scoop on the ever fascinating Indian airline industry. Before tuning in to these threads, it baffled me, (having spent years in the middle east), why Gulf carriers were expanding like crazy due to a large part on their Indian traffic, yet Indian airlines were significantly absent from the Gulf market.

As well, it always struck me as strange that the tiny population of the Gulf region could support such massive expansion while the mega populated India airlines are mostly AWOL. Even with the petro billions, it never did seem to add up.

This stuff makes the AA mess seem boring in comparison...a real, live soap opera..."As the Sub Continent Turns.

Like I said, "fascinating"

Keep it coming.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-22 15:37:42 and read 12399 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 74):
Again, I have to thank you guys for provided us with the inside scoop on the ever fascinating Indian airline industry.

Fascinating is the word. Here i would like to add a point in favour of India. The ME carriers are wholly dependent on the follies of their sub-continental competitors, infact on the insatiable appetite ''currency suitcases'' of the powers that be, Rather than on their own definative strengths.
And having said that, the likes of 6E, SG and to a great extent 9W are huge looming threats that only grow bigger with every passing day. Technology (A320Neo, B787/A350), Better/Honest governance in India and rapid urbanisation will change the fortunes in favour of the Indian airlines sooner than expected.

I've always repeated the same quote '' Do not judge any airline or region based on the last 10yrs of Irrational exhuberance''.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2012-10-23 00:26:17 and read 12312 times.

http://lifestyle.in.msn.com/travel/a...ticle.aspx?cp-documentid=251150753

"Turkey seeks more destination rights for its airlines"

looks interesting. Hopefully TK can expand in India sooner than later.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-23 01:04:25 and read 12428 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 75):
Fascinating is the word. Here i would like to add a point in favour of India. The ME carriers are wholly dependent on the follies of their sub-continental competitors, infact on the insatiable appetite ''currency suitcases'' of the powers that be,

Hey, EK is for all intents and purposes India's national carrier, because successive ministers have just given them more and more and more...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-10-23 02:14:16 and read 12382 times.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 66):
Ajit Singh has specifically ruled out FDI to start-ups. He has to protect Jet and IndiGo. I do not think 5 year rule is being withdrawn. GoAir has asked for relaxation of the 20 aircraft fleet size rule for international flights.

I was not aware of this. Are you sure? Do you have a link for this?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-23 03:09:49 and read 12357 times.

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 72):
All of the KFA Engg staff and many from the Ops can be accomodated within DGCA to fill the shortages.

The salaries offered are so poor that no one would consider it unless they have no option.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-10-23 04:12:27 and read 12336 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 79):
The salaries offered are so poor that no one would consider it unless they have no option.

The salaries offered to airline staff in India were the same as that in EU, infact salaries have been reduced by avg of 10% in EU due to the recession. So to compare the DGCA wages to this salaries is wrong because as i have said earlier, it was IRRATIONAL EXHUBERANCE which resulted in Indian staff being paid EU wages. KFA, 9W, 6E, SG, GO were chasing the same pool, with the some semblance of sense prevailing upon the airlines in India wages will soon come inline with ground realities, trust me i know first hand as i was there last year speaking to Management at KFA and 9W besides the DGCA.
Further more pray that something big does not blow up in the ME as this will create a flood of personell rushing back home increasing the pressure on an already depressed market.
A good yard stick is the fact that the KFA engineers at the bottom of the barrell were ready to work for 7months without wages, unknowingly they have set the median wage for the industry. Which compared to the DGCA is a shade poorer. Not ideal, neither was the era of Irrational Exhuberance.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-23 04:18:13 and read 12335 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 78):
I was not aware of this. Are you sure? Do you have a link for this?
http://www.firstpost.com/economy/fdi...-promoters-and-bankers-470382.html

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-10-23 07:17:27 and read 12289 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 81):
Quoting sankaps (Reply 78):
I was not aware of this. Are you sure? Do you have a link for this?
http://www.firstpost.com/economy/fdi....html

Thanks. Seems like avery shortsighted move. Would be good if Air Asia, Tiger, Jetstar etc can come in via a JV with the Tatas or some such body. Always good to have at least two strong players in each market segment! Right now down to only Jet in FSCs and Indigo in LCCs (Spice and Go have been left far behind by Indigo).

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-10-23 07:19:33 and read 12315 times.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 76):

http://lifestyle.in.msn.com/travel/a...ticle.aspx?cp-documentid=251150753

"Turkey seeks more destination rights for its airlines"

looks interesting. Hopefully TK can expand in India sooner than later.

If India gives TK what they want it will get even worse for the Indian aviation. TK is a strong competitor to LH and EK and has the power to snatch travelers from Indian airlines even further.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2012-10-23 15:49:21 and read 12206 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 83):

well that should be more incentive for Indian Carriers to step it up then. I would gladly fly AI or 9W but they dont connect to the West Coast of the US, so that poses a problem for me.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-10-23 20:23:54 and read 12148 times.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 84):
well that should be more incentive for Indian Carriers to step it up then.

  

Don't we all want that....?

But for the Government, ATF prices, airport taxes, etc how can they.   

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-24 04:40:06 and read 12097 times.

First Sanjay Aggarwal claimed that everybody would be back at work on Friday, but the employees are now saying that he is a liar
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...by-friday/articleshow/16940755.cms
Meanwhile, rumours circulate that Mallya will take a chopper to the F1 race so as to avoid protesters...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-24 11:39:02 and read 12011 times.

KF will need to reduce staff....what will transpire then......

Quoting tayaramecanici (Reply 80):
The salaries offered to airline staff in India were the same as that in EU, infact salaries have been reduced by avg of 10% in EU due to the recession.

Not all are high payers out here.....Except for a freighter airline with older/odd fleet has to compensate for the staff working on type......Rest of the players are low payers.....DGCA salaries are still lower.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-24 19:47:10 and read 11934 times.

SpiceJet To Order 30-40 737MAX? (by LAXDESI Oct 24 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-25 03:55:26 and read 11830 times.

Is there a demand for so many Aircraft currently....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: 777way
Posted 2012-10-25 11:56:37 and read 11725 times.

Martinair Cargo are operating to BOM twice weekly 747F their third destination.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-25 23:08:27 and read 11644 times.

Virgin Atlantic open to buying into Indian Airlines: Sir Richard Branson. I wonder if GOI would be interested in some sort of structured bankruptcy for IT if Virgin was interested in buying.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...d-branson/articleshow/16962490.cms

Quote:
Virgin Group owner British billionaire Sir Richard Branson, who landed in India Thursday for launching new flights connecting Indian with the UK and the US, wants to keep his eyes open to investment opportunities in Indian airlines.

"Now foreign companies have been allowed to pick up 49% so we are keeping our eyes open. It's a brave battle going on in the Indian aviation space now. Everybody is bleeding. There will be a right time and we will watch," Branson said at a prelaunch party at the Taj ManSingh hotel at New Delhi.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-10-26 02:54:02 and read 11582 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 89):
Is there a demand for so many Aircraft currently....

The 737Max won't be available currently would it.... but yes in the coming years the demand will be there for sure.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: blr380
Posted 2012-10-26 08:49:03 and read 11513 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 91):

Probably makes sense since they are restarting BOM route. Also plans to add BLR and HYD pending approvals. Note that BLR and BOM were x-IT routes to LHR. It will be nice to see the revival of IT if this deal goes thro.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-10-26 21:40:28 and read 11393 times.

Quoting blr380 (Reply 93):
Note that BLR and BOM were x-IT routes to LHR. It will be nice to see the revival of IT if this deal goes thro.

On that topic, may I ask what happened with the KF slots at LHR? If they are still there could they go to VS?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2012-10-27 00:11:15 and read 11363 times.

Quoting blr380 (Reply 93):

Probably makes sense since they are restarting BOM route. Also plans to add BLR and HYD pending approvals. Note that BLR and BOM were x-IT routes to LHR. It will be nice to see the revival of IT if this deal goes thro.

wouldnt mind VS at BLR. Gives people another option to the US and Europe.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-27 03:23:30 and read 11343 times.

The Delhi Airport Express finds itself in a spot of bother with the operator wanting out of the deal claiming they make a huge loss every month. The idea of the Airport Express was great, but sole connectivity to T3 and not connecting T1D at DEL was a huge mistake

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-10-27 03:30:53 and read 11330 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 92):
but yes in the coming years the demand will be there for sure.

But can the quantity of demand out here justify a good business decision.....



Cavok air AN74.....at VABB......what sector does it operate.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-10-27 03:40:13 and read 11326 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 96):
The idea of the Airport Express was great, but sole connectivity to T3 and not connecting T1D at DEL was a huge mistake

I think they did not connect to 1D because in subsequent years the plan of DIAL is to shift all domestic operations to T3 and shift international ops to a new terminal, as far as I have heard.

But then this is a huge mistake for now, as with KF out of the picture, we literally have more than a half of domestic ops from 1D and people who actually need to use the Airport Express fly through there. Also I have barely seen any international travelers using it so yes, I think The Airport Express might even shut down if Govt doesn't step in and do something.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-10-27 05:47:16 and read 11294 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 94):
On that topic, may I ask what happened with the KF slots at LHR? If they are still there could they go to VS?
IT still has their slot pairs at LHR.

[Edited 2012-10-27 05:50:14]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-28 19:23:29 and read 11070 times.

SilkAir launches first direct flight between Singapore and Visakhapatnam. Is there sufficient traffic between Visakhapatnam and any of the Gulf destination to warrant a non-stop.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...khapatnam/articleshow/16998352.cms

Quote:
"With introduction of the service, which will run thrice a week, SilkAir became the first airline to provide non-stop international air connectivity from Visakhapatnam," said SilkAir Chief Executive Leslie Thng.

The first flight connecting Visakhapatnam with Singapore landed here this evening. It is also the first direct international flight from the city.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-10-30 13:01:57 and read 10837 times.

Indigo expects to be profitable this fiscal year, and expects other carriers to be profitable too.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...oo-indigo/articleshow/17018588.cms

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-10-31 06:39:29 and read 10830 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 98):
But then this is a huge mistake for now, as with KF out of the picture, we literally have more than a half of domestic ops from 1D and people who actually need to use the Airport Express fly through there. Also I have barely seen any international travelers using it so yes, I think The Airport Express might even shut down if Govt doesn't step in and do something.

Half? I would guess the number is closer to 75% after KFA shut down, even though AI and 9W use DEL as a major domestic hub, DEL is 6E's top hub, last time I flew out of DEL 1D, I saw 15 6E 320's during the evening rush hour. I agree the Gov't needs to reform the Airport Express project for it to be viable; but Reliance Infra did bite off more than they could chew.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-11-02 09:21:51 and read 10612 times.

UAE-based Etihad Airways launches Abu Dhabi-Ahmedabad flight. I am sure this flight will capture some of the NA/UK-Gujarat.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...ad-flight/articleshow/17062447.cms

Quote:
Etihad Airways, the national airline of the UAE, has launched flights between Abu Dhabi and Ahmedabad, making it the airline's ninth destination in India. The Abu Dhabi-based Airlines, which launched the flight yesterday, now flies to nine Indian destinations including New Delhi, Chennai, Mumbai, Kozhikode, Thiruvananthapuram, Hyderabad, Bangalore and Kochi.

"Our daily, two-class A320 service to Ahmedabad is another step in expanding our presence on the Indian Subcontinent and connecting key strategic cities with Abu Dhabi," Hogan said.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-11-03 12:50:03 and read 10345 times.

Dragonair launches four-times-weekly Kolkata-Hong Kong service.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...g-service/articleshow/17076000.cms

Quote:
The carrier is the only airline offering a scheduled non-stop service be-tween Hong Kong and Kolkata, with the service operated by Airbus A320 aircraft. Kolkata is the second Indian destination for the airline along with Bengaluru.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-11-03 14:37:35 and read 10312 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 104):
Dragonair launches four-times-weekly Kolkata-Hong Kong service.
CCU-HKG-JFK is about 700nm longer(2 hours) than CCU-DXB-JFK. So not a deal breaker.

CCU-HKG-LAX/SFO is about 1300nm shorter(3 hours) than CCU-DXB-LAX/SFO. I am sure CX will take some of the CCU-NA traffic away from EK and others.

Jet Airways related news from Business Standard:
Jet Airways will increase the capacity on international routes through a mix of aircraft reconfiguration and deploying the Airbus A330-300 planes which have 30 additional seats than the similar type aircraft in its fleet. The airline will retain the existing fleet size as it planning to sell or lease the airbus A330-200s in its fleet.

Also the airline is reconfiguring five Boeing 777 planes adding more seats in the economy section. The economy section in the Boeing 777 has nine seats in a row and the airline will be adding an extra seat in each row (increasing it to 10). The reconfiguration exercise will be complete by January. The airline has leased out its five 777s to Thai Airways.

The airline posted a consolidated loss of Rs 166 crore($30 million) in second quarter FY 2013. Although losses narrowed down from Rs 713 crore($130 million) in same period last year airline continued to bear the brunt of high operating costs.

Edited to add numbers in US$.

[Edited 2012-11-03 15:03:55]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-05 04:43:29 and read 10111 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 105):
Also the airline is reconfiguring five Boeing 777 planes adding more seats in the economy section. The economy section in the Boeing 777 has nine seats in a row and the airline will be adding an extra seat in each row (increasing it to 10). The reconfiguration exercise will be complete by January. The airline has leased out its five 777s to Thai Airways.

Sad, I flew Y on a 9W 77W DEL-LHR-DEL and the service and seats were great, moving to 10 across is very passenger unfriendly, although it ought to help 9W make more money...

In other news, Nusli Wadia gave an interview to Business Standard, the relevant parts about GoAir

Now that FDI in aviation has been cleared, will GoAir look at a foreign partner?
We are certainly exploring but the objective is not just to raise money. We are looking for a partner who can add value, and bring knowledge to the table so that the alliance is beneficial to both. If GoAir partners another airline, it will be done to provide convenience and efficient connectivity to our customers in India and those who travel to India from overseas and want domestic connectivity.

What are your plans for GoAir?
Our focus has been to first establish our brand and the business model and then pursue growth. Our fleet is young and by 2019 we will have 75 to 80 Airbus Neos, which burn 10 per cent less fuel. But I must add the Indian aviation industry is facing an unlevel playing field. We pay twice as much for fuel compared with the rest of the world and we are at the mercy of three fuel companies. Travelling by air is not a luxury any longer but a necessity. Look at the opportunity we have. Just one airline, Ryan Air, flies more passengers than the entire Indian aviation industry put together.

The current policies do not favour growth. For instance, airlines can import fuel from abroad but there is no infrastructure for airlines to store fuel either at ports or at airports. Taxation on fuel is onerous, and no other country in the world pays tax on fuel. Why should fuel be the only commodity that pays a sales tax of almost 22 per cent ad valorem and is not declared as goods? Fuel is not even subject to Modvat as is the case with other products and commodities. Our fares are lower than Europe but with double the fuel cost.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-11-05 08:36:00 and read 10075 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 105):
loss of Rs 166 crore($30 million) in second quarter FY 2013.

  

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 105):
I am sure CX will take some of the CCU-NA traffic away from EK and others.

Nothing for EK to worry about if they are giving cheaper fares. For Y passengers thats what matters rather than saving 3 hrs. Plus CCU is very much underserved by Intl flights due to poor infrastructure. Hope this changes rapidly with the new terminal set to open in Jan.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-06 06:46:05 and read 10057 times.

The latest in the KFA/IT saga

Kingfisher will not fly if it doesn't bring in capital by November 30: SBI

New Delhi: State Bank of India (SBI), the lead bank to ailing Kingfisher Airlines, on Tuesday cautioned the carrier that it "will not fly" if it fails to bring in fresh capital by November 30. "Banks' consortium has done everything possible to make the company (Kingfisher) work. Only the company is not working... The management has to get capital. We have given time till November 30 that they should get capital otherwise the company will not fly...," SBI Chairman Pratip Chaudhuri told PTI.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kingfishe...l-by-november-30-sbi/304220-7.html

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-11-07 01:25:03 and read 10040 times.

Just out of curiosity, what was a KF 332 doing in ZRH in June '12 as shown in the following pic?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Swiss...d=caa9d9329813170daafbd0219f7f9aef

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: VIDP
Posted 2012-11-07 03:44:56 and read 10026 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 109):
Just out of curiosity, what was a KF 332 doing in ZRH in June '12 as shown in the following pic?

They are stored in ZRH

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Heavierthanair
Posted 2012-11-07 03:46:44 and read 10038 times.

G´day

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 109):
Just out of curiosity, what was a KF 332 doing in ZRH in June '12 as shown in the following pic?

Passing through last week I saw three of them parked in ZRH. Presumably awaiting a new owner.   


Cheers

Peter

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: viasa
Posted 2012-11-07 13:18:19 and read 10030 times.

Three of the five former KF A330s were stored in ZRH - the other two were in BOD.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Vimanav
Posted 2012-11-09 11:02:54 and read 10024 times.

Civil Aviation Minister Ajit Singh approved Traffic Rights for Indian Carriers for Three Seasons Beginning Winter 2012;
Introduction of new international sectors and progressive increase in number of flights to boost growth of Indian carriers;

Fresh bilateral negotiations proposed for additional traffic rights. Countries with whom discussions will be opened include Singapore, Thailand, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iraq, Macau and Afghanistan.

Read the press information bureau release here

brgds//Vimanav

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-11-10 00:18:24 and read 10019 times.

Quoting from the link:

Quote:

Air India:
Delhi-Rome-Madrid/ Barcelona;
Delhi-Moscow;
Delhi-Sydney/ Melbourne;
Mumbai-Nairobi;
Mumbai-Al Najaf (Iraq)

Jet Airways:

Mumbai-Jakarta;
Delhi-Barcelona;
Mumbai-Zurich;
Delhi-Tashkent;
Mumbai-Ho Chi Minh City

Spicejet:

Lucknow- Al Najaf (Iraq);
Varanasi- Al Najaf (Iraq);
Delhi-Macau;
Delhi-Ho Chi Minh City

Apart from DEL-SYD/MEL, BOM-NBO, and flights to SGN I have no idea about other routes. I don't even suppose most of these routes will even be taken by the respective airlines, esp 9W to ZRH and BCN, when the airline is actually cutting back on fleet size. However any India-Spain flight would be a huge welcome, as it is the largest Euro nation unserved with flights from India.

I hope someone can shed light on this.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-10 00:38:56 and read 10015 times.

SpiceJet's 737 for a five hour flight? But I expect both Saigon and Macau to be popular routes. 9W's routes to Jakarta and Tashkent are a plus.
But no new additions to Indigo? That has me surprised.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: 777way
Posted 2012-11-10 00:48:07 and read 9999 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 114):
Mumbai-Al Najaf (Iraq)

AI has potential for pilgrim traffic and possibly labour too on this.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Nimish
Posted 2012-11-10 03:28:51 and read 10000 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 115):
But no new additions to Indigo? That has me surprised.

I wonder if 6E will get a separate presser for their expansion plans  ?

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 113):
Fresh bilateral negotiations proposed for additional traffic rights. Countries with whom discussions will be opened include Singapore, Thailand, Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iraq, Macau and Afghanistan.

What happened to QR in this round of expansions? Surely they need additional feed from India to feed their massive expansion plans.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-11-10 05:18:49 and read 9997 times.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 117):
What happened to QR in this round of expansions? Surely they need additional feed from India to feed their massive expansion plans.

Now that Qatar will join OW, there could be a rise in demand for passengers flying Doha and beyond. QR connects to 12 cities in India and have unused seat allocations of 6000 per week. Qatar has room to expand to certain points within the existing frame of the air service agreement.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-11-10 09:15:56 and read 10001 times.

Just for the record,

India - DXB Bilateral frequencies as of today stands:

Indian carriers: 200 flights per week
Dubai Carriers: 194 flights per week

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-11-10 10:22:45 and read 9996 times.

'Full-fledged integration of AI, IA in three to four months'.
http://zeenews.india.com/business/ne...in-three-to-four-months_64179.html

Quote:
"There are certain issues like salary discrepancy and service ranks to be looked into before completing integration of the airlines in three to four months," he said, speaking at a meet-the-press programme at Calicut Press Club here.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-11-11 11:31:51 and read 9977 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 120):

Getting the Employees to co-Exist........Biggest challenge....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-11-11 17:12:50 and read 9987 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 118):
Now that Qatar will join OW, there could be a rise in demand for passengers flying Doha and beyond. QR connects to 12 cities in India and have unused seat allocations of 6000 per week. Qatar has room to expand to certain points within the existing frame of the air service agreement.

At what cost ?

Ojas, i've lived in the ME, After a while you get dazzled by the razz-ma-tazz. When i left the ME, Fuel was doing $18/bl and Qatar was the biggest moaner, QR had started with B727 then.

Don't dream of $100/BL forever..........................

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: tayaramecanici
Posted 2012-11-11 17:17:40 and read 9985 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 119):
Just for the record,

India - DXB Bilateral frequencies as of today stands:

Indian carriers: 200 flights per week
Dubai Carriers: 194 flights per weekA lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep

Just for the Stats, can you also add the Aircraft types, per flt each week, Dubai and India. And Whilst you are at it why don't you also give the SEAT figures, will be interesting reading it ALL.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: RobK
Posted 2012-11-12 14:02:46 and read 9997 times.

I was listening to Mumbai working the traffic across the Arabian Sea earlier today and JAI556 got a bit of a grilling for failing to give his AIREP in the correct format! Routing is Kochin to Doha via airway M300 IGAMA OSIRI NITIX MESAN LEMAX KADOL. Aircraft was B738 VT-JGS. Frequency was 8879 KHz.

I uploaded the audio to sendspace : http://www.sendspace.com/file/ggqh55

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-11-12 21:09:20 and read 9958 times.

Quoting RobK (Reply 124):

Haha that was real hammering in desi style.   

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-14 02:03:31 and read 9940 times.

Firstly, Happy Diwali to everyone here, one of my long time wishes is to land at DEL on Diwali evening - preferably on 27 or 28. Last night they were using 28 for domestic arrivals and the approach over South Delhi's tonier neighbourhoods must have been a spectacular light show.

But at least Delhi's approach path on all runways (even 27) is fairly clean; I doubt people can play with aerial fireworks on the 27 approach or take-off path in Mumbai. Even if the fireworks only go up a 100-200 feet it must be dangerous. I have often thought how bad a situation which involved landing short like BA 008 would be at BOM...

My last landing approach into BOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svmVHUpdKCc

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-11-14 02:48:09 and read 10063 times.

Though there may be regulations against use of high-reaching fireworks near runway approaches, I seriously doubt they could cause any harm to an aircraft or its flight path.... only until they enter the engines.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-11-14 05:34:15 and read 10064 times.

Quoting RobK (Reply 124):

Quite a few of that on 127.90 too  

KFA 3rd salary before Diwali has been unsucessfull sadly......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-14 23:47:58 and read 10055 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 128):
KFA 3rd salary before Diwali has been unsucessfull sadly......

I was genuinely surprised they paid the first two... lets see what happens now, in any case it is unlikely that Kingfisher will ever take to the skies again. Feels very strange flying into BOM and DEL without any KFA birds around the gates...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-11-15 02:44:06 and read 10054 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 129):
Feels very strange flying into BOM and DEL without any KFA birds around the gates...

As long as the stranded Aircraft are returned back to the lesors....& not dumped around the country aka 1997-98.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-15 22:47:50 and read 10050 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 130):
As long as the stranded Aircraft are returned back to the lesors....& not dumped around the country aka 1997-98.

At least half the 15-odd planes registered to KFA still remaining in India are not in a flyaway condition, lessors would love some of them back (not so sure about the AT7's, don't see much demand there)

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: vishaljo
Posted 2012-11-16 00:30:11 and read 10062 times.

AI 787 Economy Class:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vishal Jolapara - Indian Aviation Photographers

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-11-16 21:32:36 and read 10027 times.

According to the GDS, AI will start daily DEL - DAC services from 03rd December 2012 using an A320

The schedule is as follows

AI 231 DEL - DAC 0545 0845 2hrs 30mins
AI 232 DAC - DEL 0945 1145 2hrs 30mins

Aircraft: A320

Connections to LHR, MCT, DXB sre on offer, timings of some flights are expected to be tweaked for further expansion of connections.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: VIDP
Posted 2012-11-17 04:56:11 and read 10026 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 128):
KFA 3rd salary before Diwali has been unsucessfull sadly......

Finally paid the same ... It will be nothing less than a miracle if KFA bounces back.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-19 06:03:27 and read 10003 times.

Quoting VIDP (Reply 134):
Finally paid the same ... It will be nothing less than a miracle if KFA bounces back.

Wasn't the schedule to pay a few more months before the end of the year?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Gr8circle
Posted 2012-11-19 15:37:49 and read 10016 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 133):
Connections to LHR, MCT, DXB sre on offer, timings of some flights are expected to be tweaked for further expansion of connections.

AI seem to be slowly building the DEL hub......hopefully, so will 9W.....looks like DEL has some chance of becoming an important regional hub.......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-11-20 03:16:12 and read 10008 times.

Quoting VIDP (Reply 134):

Finally paid the same ... It will be nothing less than a miracle if KFA bounces back.

Looks like VJM is hoping for a Foreign Investor after his Initiall Investment & a fresh start up Indian Investor & then VJM will sell out & make a quiet exit.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-11-21 05:08:28 and read 9965 times.

Effective Dec 10th SG will launch daily flights to COK from DXB


SG 017 COK - DXB 1710 1950 4hrs 10mins

SG 018 DXB - COK 2045 0225+1 4hrs 10mins

Daily B737 operation

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ytz
Posted 2012-11-21 12:30:53 and read 9884 times.

Quoting golfradio (Reply 15):
With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.

Exactly why I'm gaining interest in 9W and hoping they get into Star.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: golfradio
Posted 2012-11-21 12:51:59 and read 9863 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 139):
9W and hoping they get into Star

Amen.   

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: PM
Posted 2012-11-21 20:45:06 and read 9811 times.

Good grief. My office is under the flight path going into BLR. An AI 787 has just flown over on approach. Cool.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-11-22 03:19:08 and read 9727 times.

Spicejet To Launch Operations To Saudi Arabia (by ojas Nov 22 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Daily DEL - RUH.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2012-11-22 16:45:02 and read 9613 times.

Quoting ytz (Reply 139):
Quoting golfradio (Reply 15):With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.
Exactly why I'm gaining interest in 9W and hoping they get into Star.

Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-11-22 18:13:10 and read 9591 times.

Even if this maybe an absurd argument - Does the seat caps, limited bilaterals between India and rest of the world mean that there are less people flying into and out of India than possible? I mean does this imply that a certain person/group have less chance of flying because of the restrictions that they would've had there been none?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-11-22 18:24:56 and read 9610 times.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 143):
Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?

In AI's network, the impact will be marginal at best. AI is sensibly trying to build its DEL hub to critical mass at this point, so adding BOM connections would just make for a further disjointed network.

As a whole, a new terminal will definitely improve connectivity for BOM.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 144):
Even if this maybe an absurd argument - Does the seat caps, limited bilaterals between India and rest of the world mean that there are less people flying into and out of India than possible? I mean does this imply that a certain person/group have less chance of flying because of the restrictions that they would've had there been none?

I honestly have absolutely no clue what you're trying to say.

Every country limits bilaterals. Some, like Canada, do it moreso than others. Indian politicians sell our bilats anyway, so ours are much more flexible than they could be.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-11-22 21:16:47 and read 9548 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 145):
I honestly have absolutely no clue what you're trying to say.

rough e.g. If 1000 people wanted to go DEL-SIN in a year, but there are only 600 seats on all flights (direct and indirect), the other 400 people are unable to go at all. So doesn't this mean less people are going to SIN due to seat cap?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-22 23:59:12 and read 9519 times.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 143):
Quoting ytz (Reply 139):
Quoting golfradio (Reply 15):With BOM becoming increasinly irrelevant to AI, I am losing all interest in AI.
Exactly why I'm gaining interest in 9W and hoping they get into Star.

Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?

I'm sure the new T2 will help Mumbai, there was a Nat Geo show on it as well, but no mater how impressive the terminal is, BOM is hamstrung by space, the new terminal cannot compete with DEL T3 in terms of size and short of demolishing existing terminals once the new terminal is complete, BOM's expansion will be complete.

And then there is the simple issue of runway capacity... which is why DEL will continue to grow a heck of a lot faster than BOM

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-11-23 16:16:33 and read 9383 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 146):
rough e.g. If 1000 people wanted to go DEL-SIN in a year, but there are only 600 seats on all flights (direct and indirect), the other 400 people are unable to go at all. So doesn't this mean less people are going to SIN due to seat cap?

No.

Loads to/from India are not anywhere near 100%.

More flexible bilaterals would allow more competition, driving down fares, which would stimulate demand, yes, but there are serious side effects of those kinds of actions.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: VIDP
Posted 2012-11-23 18:35:25 and read 9364 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 147):
I'm sure the new T2 will help Mumbai, there was a Nat Geo show on it as well, but no mater how impressive the terminal is, BOM is hamstrung by space, the new terminal cannot compete with DEL T3 in terms of size and short of demolishing existing terminals once the new terminal is complete, BOM's expansion will be complete.

And then there is the simple issue of runway capacity... which is why DEL will continue to grow a heck of a lot faster than BOM

Well said what we also need to understand that people staying in southern india who were more reliant on Mumbai Airport for their international travel have now options available from their own home airports while the same is not the case with Northern region.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-11-24 03:29:56 and read 9265 times.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 143):
Will BOM's importance change with the completion of the new terminal (which seems to be quite impressive).....?

and taking Forever to complete......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-11-24 10:26:21 and read 9202 times.

Does this mean anything?
Naresh Goyal promoted Jet airways has reason to cheer as the civil aviation ministry might give them permission to join Star Alliance simultaneously with state owned Air India . Prior to this, the government wanted the Star Alliance, comprising 27 airlines across the globe, to decide positively on Air India’s membership first.

Posted 2012-11-24 12:49:20 and read 9226 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 151):
Does this mean anything?

Nope.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Vimanav
Posted 2012-11-26 10:51:32 and read 9026 times.

In the India-Oman bilaterals, 16016 seats granted to Oman (an v.v.) divided as follows:

to
DEL/BOM/HYD/MAA - 14 flights each per week
BLR/CCJ/JAI/COK/TRV/LKO - 7 weekly services each
GOI - 6 weekly services

brgds//Vimanav

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: AirIndia
Posted 2012-11-26 20:13:50 and read 8928 times.

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 153):
In the India-Oman bilaterals, 16016 seats granted to Oman (an v.v.) divided as follows

Good news for WY as it will help their expansion plans. Work on the New terminal in MCT is cuurently in full swing.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-11-27 01:58:17 and read 8861 times.

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 153):
In the India-Oman bilaterals, 16016 seats granted to Oman (an v.v.) divided as follows:

to
DEL/BOM/HYD/MAA - 14 flights each per week
BLR/CCJ/JAI/COK/TRV/LKO - 7 weekly services each
GOI - 6 weekly services

So will Indigo or Spicejet get any new services to MCT?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-11-27 08:38:24 and read 8780 times.

From the Indian side at present only 6E has indicated plans to expand to MCT with BOM - MCT going daily from current 4 weekly and new daily flights from MCT to COK and MAA each.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-11-29 11:21:43 and read 8575 times.

According to the GDS, effective Jan 2013, EY will increase flights on the AUH - CCJ route from 3 weekly to daily. With this EY will have 63 weekly flights to India across 9 destinations. The AUH - CCJ route is operated by AIX as well.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-02 00:41:27 and read 8358 times.

http://www.menafn.com/menafn/1093584...kly-Gulf-flights-to-112-two-months

6E is to expand operations out of Dubai. IXE, CCJ and TRV will be added from DXB along with a second daily BOM - DXB.

This will increase 6E operations to DXB upto 70 weekly flights.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-02 02:03:11 and read 8322 times.

Whats the news of KFA.
What about the salaries of AI & 9W.......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-12-02 04:33:27 and read 8294 times.

From the Times of India: Kolkata only major metro to show increase in domestic air traffic year-over-year; Bangalore shows steepest decline.

See "Bangalore airport sees sharp decline in domestic traffic" : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...c-traffic/articleshow/17451774.cms

Decline of KF likely explains the decline of BLR domestic traffic, though surprised to see the other metros decline as well. I guess CCU was least exposed to KF.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-12-02 09:35:50 and read 8235 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 160):

I expect both domestic and intl traffic increase much more through the next Spring at CCU. That is if all goes to plan with the Jan opening of the new terminal.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-03 02:47:56 and read 8086 times.

Just confirmed I heard ........... 24% stake by Etihad in 9W.......Is that true.....

[Edited 2012-12-03 02:53:12]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-03 03:06:44 and read 8083 times.

Great for 9W; I guess Etihad will create an alliance for their own(ed)

Jet to sell a 24% stake to EY for Rs 1600 crore. Jet's valued at Rs 6500 crore, if quite a bit though that is $1.25 billion according to rough math.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...e-sources/articleshow/17463943.cms

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-04 01:50:50 and read 7897 times.

24% may not give voting rights.....I think 26% would.....can anyone confirm.....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-04 02:13:52 and read 7895 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 164):
24% may not give voting rights.....I think 26% would.....can anyone confirm.....

They may got get a board seat and may not be able to block anything the board decides, however according to SEBI's code, if a company acquires over 25% of another company they have to announce a mandatory buyout of up to 20% more shares from the open market. 9W does not have too many outstanding shares...

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-04 02:23:50 and read 7910 times.

With respect to the the EY - 9W partnership, it is really going down the path where EY is going to make 9W to suit their interest. After all EY is giving them what 9W is DESPERATELY in need of --- money.

9W will just be another airline feeding EYs network and for all that is worth, it has been doing that for a while now. Just to remind everyone, incase they forgot, that 9W and EY code share on each others flights between India and AUH, sparing AUH - BLR and AMD routes. Which means 9W flights already acts as a connector to EYs network and vice versa, the difference being that EY is raking the maximum benefit out of it and that 9W is barely managing to get some sale.

Once this partnership goes, at best, 9W will start services from MAA and HYD to AUH and that is it. The hub at AUH isn't all that strong like DXB or DOH. Whatever is the hub structure at AUH right now, do note the following points:

Major Departure banks out of AUH: 0800-1100hrs ish and 0130hrs to 0330hrs ish

Major Arrival banks at AUH: 0500hrs to 0800hrs and 1800hrs to 2000hrs.

From the Indian flights perspective, USA, LHR, FRA, CDG, GCC are all very well connected in the existing structure. If they need more capacity from India, they simply need to deploy the A332s to BOM, DEL to begin with.

What EY would really push for is aligning many 9W departures and arrivals in tandem with an existing EY flight. That means having early morning departures from the existing EY points in India. In addition to this they will need to work out a day flight from AUH at 0900hrs ish. This can be achieved effectively more by EY than 9W because for 9W to have a 0900hrs departure from AUH would mean a 0530hrs departure from India.

To sum it up, at present the immediate changes we will see are 9W aligning domestic operations carrying an EY code (I suspect they will do something to India - SIN as well). Additional flights to AUH are purely depending on how AUH hub grows, which at present, is not really growing as fast as one would think. 9W can at best do something out of HYD and MAA or even COK to AUH.

This partnership is a master stroke for EY as they have got Jet at one of their lowest times. For 9W it will save them now, but they should realise that they will be strategically dominated by EY.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-04 04:04:36 and read 7876 times.

In more 9W news, they are planning to get five ATR 72-600 aircraft.

I wonder where they will use them, while some of the ATR's in their fleet are not young; but there isn't any need to replace them. I do believe that SpiceJet's regional strategy has them worried although five does not seem like that big an acquisition. I wonder if these frames will be those that were initially assigned to Kingfisher, that would be most ironic!

Posted 2012-12-04 06:28:58 and read 7828 times.

It seems to me that there is a lot of high/hot airports in India that are in use for commercial air service. Do the Q400's of Spicejet give them some advantage in versatility to offset the higher purchase and operating cost compared to the ATR-600's?

How has the reception been for the Q's now that they have had some time in regular service?

[Edited 2012-12-04 06:29:40]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-04 14:11:58 and read 7735 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 168):
How has the reception been for the Q's now that they have had some time in regular service?

SG appears to be reasonably happy with the performance, but it seems like they'd be better off with the ATR.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: 777way
Posted 2012-12-04 18:18:53 and read 7683 times.

RAK Airways plan to ass two new destinations in India, any idea which could they be?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: karan69
Posted 2012-12-05 00:27:52 and read 7623 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 166):
Major Departure banks out of AUH: 0800-1100hrs ish and 0130hrs to 0330hrs ish

Major Arrival banks at AUH: 0500hrs to 0800hrs and 1800hrs to 2000hrs.

The morning slots are the prime traget connections to JFK/IAD/ORD/YYZ/LHR/CDG/BRU/MXP/FRA/MUC/MAN/BER /GCC

What was missing in EYs Armour was no connection to India for their convenient business day saving night departures from LHR/MAN/CDG/Germany and GCC, they can plug that

EY has double daily services to a few cities, what it can do is make 9W offer as you say the 8am flight to connect solely to these EU cities from BOM/MAA/DEL/BLR so that it saves a Business day each way, this flight can also serve GCC and O&D traffic

Let EY upguage DEL and BOM to 330s and MAA and BLR to 321s [when they arrive] at their current time slots to enable greater capacity

Karan

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-05 03:58:00 and read 7562 times.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 168):
Do the Q400's of Spicejet give them some advantage in versatility to offset the higher purchase and operating cost compared to the ATR-600's?

Heard the famous LG issues continue with the Q400s.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-12-05 07:37:47 and read 7525 times.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-delivery/articleshow/17493166.cms

GoI seems to be on track with rest of the Dreamliner deliveries.

Also with the induction of the next frame, DEL-CDG shall be converted to a Dreamliner route.

Still no signs of services on MEL and SYD yet.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-05 13:06:45 and read 7445 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 173):
Still no signs of services on MEL and SYD yet.

won't happen before S13 sked

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-06 22:08:42 and read 7308 times.

Spicejet announces CAN

Spicejet To Start Operations To China (DEL - CAN) (by ojas Dec 6 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-07 02:02:27 and read 7232 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 175):
Spicejet announces CAN

Actually, more keen; from a travel perspective at least; on when SG opens DEL-SGN

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-07 05:04:07 and read 7296 times.

6E's first international route to be chopped from March 2013, BOM - SIN. The flights are not for sale from March.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: ojas
Posted 2012-12-07 06:05:51 and read 7271 times.

Effective Jan 3 9W will start IXE - DXB 9W 532/531. Flights will operate 6 weekly (Except Sa)


http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=157679


Flights will be operated by a 2 class B737-800. At present AIX is double daily on this route.

9W 532 IXE - DXB 2000 2230 Mo, We, Th, Su
9W 532 IXE - DXB 1940 2210 Tu
9W 532 IXE - DXB 1900 2130 Fr


9W 531 DXB - IXE 2330 0430+1 Mo, Tu, We, Th, Su
9W 531 DXB - IXE 2230 0330+1 Fr

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-07 06:41:52 and read 7254 times.

Quoting ojas (Reply 177):

6E's first international route to be chopped from March 2013, BOM - SIN. The flights are not for sale from March.

Not enough O&D traffic to justify the route? Surprised though, would have expected SIN routes to do well.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-12-07 11:08:56 and read 7188 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 179):
Not enough O&D traffic to justify the route? Surprised though, would have expected SIN routes to do well.

I don't think loads are the issue. I would suspect it is difficult, for structural reasons, to get the CASK on these mid-haul international routes down low enough to make a profit, given the pax choosing an LCC over the FSCs are likely the lowest yield pax on the route.

There are no premium pax to bump the yield up, and unlike on domestic LCC routes, the pax profile and competitive environment is likely such that they generate very little ancillary revenue (for instance, LCCs tend to give a lot more free baggage allowance on these routes to match the competition).

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-12-10 09:39:20 and read 6980 times.

Three days of silence? What happened to this group?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2012-12-10 10:20:12 and read 6954 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 181):
Three days of silence? What happened to this group?

I'm thinking exhaustion.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-12-10 23:20:43 and read 6832 times.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...000-crore/articleshow/17567445.cms

I hope EY is thinking straight with buying stake in KF. Also this might completely change the scenario now that they are buying 9W as well. Throw in some light on this anybody   

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-11 00:40:19 and read 6796 times.

I'm trying to understand what EY is thinking......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: BLRAviation
Posted 2012-12-11 00:42:44 and read 6814 times.

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 183):
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...000-crore/articleshow/17567445.cms

I hope EY is thinking straight with buying stake in KF. Also this might completely change the scenario now that they are buying 9W as well. Throw in some light on this anybody

It is the cover story in today's Bangalore Mirror (part of Times of India group, like ET). http://www.bangaloremirror.com/artic...ihad-set-to-invest-Rs-3000-cr.html but this link is giving trouble.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-12-11 01:21:07 and read 6765 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 184):
I'm trying to understand what EY is thinking......

Either the have gotten the creditors (incl banks) to agree to a 50-75% haircut on their dues, or they have more money than brains. Or it could just be Mallya blowing smoke.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-11 01:26:31 and read 6758 times.

Don't really know anything about this but if a bad business model coupled with bad management is the root cause of KF's financial failure, would EY be taking over business planning and management? I don't see the point of refinancing a business that does not work unless you can change the business model.

Edit: out of curiosity, what do the employees do while KF is grounded? Do check-in staff go to work and sit around drinking cups of tea all day? Same question for cabin crew, pilots etc

[Edited 2012-12-11 01:59:01]

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LJ
Posted 2012-12-11 02:40:04 and read 6695 times.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 165):

They may got get a board seat and may not be able to block anything the board decides

Probably not if they only buy the 24% stake, but if they combine this with loans towards 9W , EY can make 9W depend on the heavily (see what they do at AB).

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 183):
I hope EY is thinking straight with buying stake in KF. Also this might completely change the scenario now that they are buying 9W as well. Throw in some light on this anybody
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 184):
I'm trying to understand what EY is thinking......

You're not the only one.....

Quoting sankaps (Reply 186):

Either the have gotten the creditors (incl banks) to agree to a 50-75% haircut on their dues, or they have more money than brains. Or it could just be Mallya blowing smoke.

Is there any value in IT? If EY continues IT they have to fulfill all commitments IT made towards Airbus (and IT still has a lot of planes on order). Why buyning them with all these commitments attached to it?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-11 08:44:16 and read 6590 times.

9W To Convert 788 Order To 789? (by LAXDESI Dec 11 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-12-11 09:13:11 and read 6583 times.

"A formal announcement about the deal could be made around 18 December, the birthday of Kingfisher chairman Mallya, the newspaper reported".

If this were true (and I'm pretty sure its not), it would prove Mallya learnt nothing about professionalism despite the disaster with Kingfisher. After allhe launched Kingfisher with great fanfare on his son's 18th birthday, as a birthday gift to the son!

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-12 03:01:23 and read 6438 times.

The Dreamliner was at V11 last night at VABB.....Any reason.I thought it avoided BOM....

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-12 05:48:35 and read 6396 times.

I was hoping that Turkish Airlines would add MAA by 2013. TK is being smart by supporting AI as it can only help it get more bilateral rights.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...tinations/articleshow/17579240.cms

Quote:
Turkey's national carrier Turkish Airlines plans to double flights between Delhi and Istanbul and add Hyderabad and Kolkata as new destinations next year, its chief executive, Temel Kotil, told ET.

"We will expand into 250 destinations by next year and offer more connectivity to Indians," Kotil said. "We've better connections than Gulf carriers and have 85% loads from India. This is much more than our network-wide average of 77%."

AI related:
"Air India is in good shape and has a good service quality. We, as Turkish Airlines, support them and are ready to help the AI management in our capacity to join us (Star Alliance). We are also ready to work with them to extend code-shares beyond Istanbul," Kotil said.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-12 08:42:41 and read 6339 times.

With TK making some positive noise on behalf of AI, and a possible deal between EY and 9W, AI may have a better shot at joining STAR.

http://articles.economictimes.indiat...alliance-etihad-airways-jet-etihad
Quote:
A prospective deal between Jet Airways and Etihad Airways is making Air India hopeful of emerging as the favourite to partner the largest airline grouping, Star Alliance Services GmbH, which has so far shunned Middle-Eastern carriers, a senior AI executive said.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-12-12 11:52:01 and read 6287 times.

9W has inducted their first A333. Three more to come this fiscal.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-in-fleet/articleshow/17587811.cms

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: caliatenza
Posted 2012-12-12 11:56:27 and read 6258 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 192):

Why not BLR?

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-12 13:31:52 and read 6226 times.

Quoting caliatenza (Reply 195):
Why not BLR?

HYD and CCU don't have Star Alliance service westbound, while BLR/MAA/BOM/DEL/PNQ do.

BLR and MAA are both on the list of routes TK is planning to launch over the next year or two, but I guess they see more opportunity in HYD and CCU.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Karan69
Posted 2012-12-12 22:15:44 and read 6123 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 193):

TK and SA were the only two airlines who voted in favor of AI for star alliance

Karan

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: JOYA380B747
Posted 2012-12-12 22:25:47 and read 6112 times.

TK will sure get lot of GoI support and perks if they help AI get into Star.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-14 08:25:48 and read 5908 times.

Bad idea as most Indian carriers are losing money at current fares. If fare control is a goal, then It is always better to provide a direct subsidy than provide it indirectly through a govt. owned company.

I hope the FM does not apply this line of thinking to other sectors of the economy. I think the FM(Harvard MBA) knows that his argument has no merit, but political compulsions force him to continue the policy of subsidising AI.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...-minister/articleshow/17614639.cms

Quote:
Fund infusion in Air India necessary to keep airfares in check: P Chidambaram, Finance Minister

Reflecting concerns of members, Finance Minister P Chidambaram today said in the Lok Sabha he was not happy with implementation of Air India's turnaround plan, but is injecting Rs 2,000 crore to keep the national carrier afloat to check any spurt in fares.

"As far as AI is concerned there is a turnaround plan. I am not happy with the way the plan has been implemented in the past. There has been several setbacks. But what do we do with AI? If I do not provide this Rs 2,000 crore there will be greater difficulty," he said winding up a discussion on the supplementary demands for grants.

Of the additional expenditure Rs 32,120 crore under the first batch of supplementary, Rs 2,000 crore has been earmarked for equity infusion in Air India as part of the turnaround plan and restructuring package.

"If AI is not kept afloat, what will happen is airfares will go up, other airline companies will simply push up their air fares because so many seats will not be available. Which is why we are providing Rs 2,000 crore to AI," Chidambaram said.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-15 07:09:41 and read 5759 times.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 199):
. I think the FM(Harvard MBA) knows that his argument has no merit, but political compulsions force him to continue the policy of subsidising AI.

  

Caught on the spot, he must have come up with some bullshit excuse. He can't tell the truth about why the government funds AI.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-15 07:10:49 and read 5771 times.

A recent letter by Rohit Nandan to AI employees:

Quote:
Dear Colleagues,

I wish you and your family members a Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year! May the year 2013 usher in peace, progress and prosperity for all Air Indians! As we welcome the New Year - we can look back at the year gone by and introspect on our successes and challenges. We need to overcome the impediments and strive for further improving on our performance in the coming year.

The New Year is dawning on us on a rather positive note. From last May onwards, our concerted efforts to win back passengers have resulted in our market share heading northwards. In spite of stiff competition and high ATF charges, we have shown a lot of character and determination to fight adversities and soar towards a brighter horizon.

It is indeed heartening that we are well on our way to turn-around. Our on–time performance in the first half improved to over 85% from below 80% last year. In the domestic sector, it was 89% while in the international sector it was 81%. Our passenger load factor has also improved significantly. Our average fleet utilization on the domestic and international sectors has also improved appreciably. The number of passengers in November and December showed a substantial increase, with an average of over 46,000 passengers flying daily- resulting in enhanced yield as well. Route rationalization continues to be a significant part of our strategy to return to profitability. Through various cost reduction measures, we have been able to bring down our cost substantially in the first half of this financial year and this cost-conscious approach would have to continue. We have also focused on monetization of our idle and surplus assets to shore up our bottom-line by way of lease, rental and sale of excess space.

Our hard work has been recognized by the media with Air India figuring amongst the top 50 service brands in India in the latest edition of Most Trusted Brands survey by the Economic Times Brand Equity. We are the only airline to have made its mark in the list. This is the seventh year that Air India has been honoured with this award. Besides, the IQS International Quality Summit Award and the Reader's Digest Trusted Brand Gold Award stand testimony to the growing passenger confidence in us.

We all know that September 8, 2012, the first factory-fresh Boeing 787 Dreamliner flew into Delhi from the US, fulfilling the dreams of an emerging nation. The state-of-the-art aircraft considered a game-changer in air transportation was the first of the 27 Dreamliners we have inducted into our fleet. Dreamliners are expected to achieve great performance levels at lower fuel costs maintenance and operating costs. From an operational aspect, too, the Dreamliner has the optimal size and range not only to operate Air India’s current routes more profitably, but also to open up new markets in Australia, Europe, the Gulf and the Southeast Asia. The Dreamliners have started their long haul operations from October 15, 2012, with a direct flight from Delhi to Frankfurt. We have to utilize these strengths to surge ahead of competition. And, in this endeavour – both machines and men will have to complement each other.

Let me conclude by wishing you and your family members once again a Happy Festive Season!

(Rohit Nandan)

Chairman & Managing Director

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-16 23:07:04 and read 5518 times.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 186):
ins. Or it could just be Mallya blowing smoke.

 

How about a christmas present to the AI employees in terms of salaries due.......

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-17 02:32:20 and read 5455 times.

Nice story by my friend Tarun on EY's dalliances with IT and 9W. Sorry if this sounds sexist, but this is like two girls competing for the affections of a rich boyfriend. But the boyfriend is playing them against one another in a classic catfight. Plus, I do feel that some securities laws must have been broken here and there with all the leaks....


http://www.livemint.com/Companies/d7...-a-deal-with-Etihad-next-week.html

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: jayeshrulz
Posted 2012-12-17 04:55:39 and read 5395 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 191):
The Dreamliner was at V11 last night at VABB.....Any reason.I thought it avoided BOM....

Hi Mel,
It operates AI 983 at times BOM-DXB and then flies DXB-DEL as AI 996. Its for crew training and familiarization  

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-17 12:04:58 and read 5286 times.

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 204):
Hi Mel,
It operates AI 983 at times BOM-DXB and then flies DXB-DEL as AI 996. Its for crew training and familiarization  

Thanks....What was Interesting apart from the Tapered Wing look was the Anticollision light flash....Very Different.

Topic: RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 101
Username: LAXDESI
Posted 2012-12-17 13:08:05 and read 5255 times.

Since no one has stepped forward to start a new thread, I am going to do the honors. I hope others will step up in future and take collective ownership of this thread. Thanks.

Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102 (by LAXDESI Dec 17 2012 in Civil Aviation)


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