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Topic: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-12-06 07:18:41 and read 14543 times.

While scanning the Chicago Trib this morning I noticed this; an irate man aboard a Jet Blue flight departing Orlando, one Robert Ramirez, punched and broke a window on the plane because the cabin crew seated him away from his mother. The plane had to return to the gate, where it was delayed app. one hour, while a crew replaced the window.

A federal grand jury in Orland has indicted Ramirez on a charge of "destruction of an aircraft".

Maybe a few years in "the slammer" will give him a chance to cool off a bit ?


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...lane-window-20121203,0,86305.story

Charley

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: strfyr51
Posted 2012-12-06 07:30:34 and read 14483 times.

Unfotunately? He might not be sitting next to his Mommy for quite a while.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-12-06 07:40:26 and read 14394 times.

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Maybe a few years in "the slammer" will give him a chance to cool off a bit ?

Or become a worse criminal. Seriously, we have enough people in our overcrowded prisons, just fine him and ban him from the airline.

From a civil aviation standpoint, I was surprised at first but considering the millions of passengers carried every year, I guess we should expect stupidity like this incident ever so often. Someone needs anger management

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2012-12-06 07:57:50 and read 14299 times.

There was similar situation on a WN flight I was on last week (involving a child sitting with his mother, but Dad was many rows back and the kid was bawling that he wanted his daddy). Maybe it was the kid's behavior, but the passenger next to the mother & kid offered to change seats with the father, solving the problem. Wonder why no one on this B6 flight apparently offered to do that?

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Birdwatching
Posted 2012-12-06 08:04:51 and read 14249 times.

Incredible replies on this thread, and very typical for this forum in the last years. Anyone realize that this guy might have a mental disorder? Yeah, throw him in jail I guess. This man might need some serious help. I realize he committed a crime by destroying the aircraft but:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Maybe a few years in "the slammer" will give him a chance to cool off a bit?

seriously? To cool off? So the answer to all problems is to jail everybody so they can "cool off"?
I'm shocked.

Soren   

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Geezer
Posted 2012-12-06 08:05:19 and read 14238 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Or become a worse criminal. Seriously, we have enough people in our overcrowded prisons, just fine him and ban him from the airline.

I tend to agree with you about the already over-crowded prisons; here's what I would do if I was in the Judge's seat:
First.......order him to reimburse Jet Blue for the cost of the window replacement, plus costs incurred by the return to gate (and the scheduling boondoggle it caused); then...... 5 years probation, during which he will be hand-cuffed any time he boards a commercial aircraft, plus, he is required to wear a "special T-shirt" with a prominent message: "This is what happens when you act stupid on an airliner"; (that ought to do it)

Charley

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Catiii
Posted 2012-12-06 08:13:26 and read 14160 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 3):
There was similar situation on a WN flight I was on last week (involving a child sitting with his mother, but Dad was many rows back and the kid was bawling that he wanted his daddy). Maybe it was the kid's behavior, but the passenger next to the mother & kid offered to change seats with the father, solving the problem. Wonder why no one on this B6 flight apparently offered to do that?

Because there is a difference in inconveniencing a grown man who can't sit next to his mother, and a young child who can't sit next to his father. . .

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: seabosdca
Posted 2012-12-06 08:18:32 and read 14097 times.

Why does the prospect of sitting apart for a couple of hours make people so crazy?

Just last week I watched a fortysomething woman become hysterical upon boarding a Frontier flight because she was seated a few rows behind her husband.

Some poor soul exchanged his aisle seat for a center seat so they could sit together. I hate it when people get their way by acting unreasonably.

[Edited 2012-12-06 08:19:05]

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: GSPSPOT
Posted 2012-12-06 08:36:08 and read 14001 times.

Quoting Catiii (Reply 6):
Because there is a difference in inconveniencing a grown man who can't sit next to his mother, and a young child who can't sit next to his father. . .

The two situations aren't identical, but definitely analogous IMO. It doesn't hurt anyone (other pax who could potentially offer to change seats) to be kind.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: CalebWilliams
Posted 2012-12-06 08:51:31 and read 13919 times.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
Why does the prospect of sitting apart for a couple of hours make people so crazy?

Just last week I watched a fortysomething woman become hysterical upon boarding a Frontier flight because she was seated a few rows behind her husband.

Some poor soul exchanged his aisle seat for a center seat so they could sit together. I hate it when people get their way by acting unreasonably.

Do keep in mind that some people have a fear of flying. That said, they could have planned ahead a lot better to get seats near each other...unless it was on WN with's free-for-all seating.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-06 09:06:11 and read 13800 times.

Inexcusable behaviour IMO. Apart from the damage done by venting his frustration physically, it must have been very unpleasant for the person sitting next to him. A little less thought for what he wanted and a little more thought for the people around him was in order.

Forgetting the calls for him to spend years in prison, what sort of penalty might one expect him to receive from a court? A big fine? A prison sentence? One or both of those plus an order to reimburse the airline for its costs?

I like the use of English in the charge against him - "destruction of an aircraft". Makes it sound like the aircraft was a total loss because of his actions.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-06 09:06:43 and read 13802 times.

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
The plane had to return to the gate, where it was delayed app. one hour, while a crew replaced the window.

Only an hour? I'd have thought it would have taken a lot longer than that to change a window.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Coronado990
Posted 2012-12-06 09:25:32 and read 13712 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
Only an hour? I'd have thought it would have taken a lot longer than that to change a window.

Isn't there a superficial plastic window between the passenger and the real window? Probably just broke that one.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: XT6Wagon
Posted 2012-12-06 09:30:02 and read 13662 times.

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 12):
Isn't there a superficial plastic window between the passenger and the real window? Probably just broke that one.

yah, I can't imagine any human being strong enough to break the window used for pressurization.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Catiii
Posted 2012-12-06 09:53:08 and read 13544 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 8):

The two situations aren't identical, but definitely analogous IMO. It doesn't hurt anyone (other pax who could potentially offer to change seats) to be kind.

Unless they paid a premium for an Even More Space seat. In any event a grown man should have the maturity level to be seated apart from his mother for the 1h45m flight to EWR. A young child doesn't know any better. The "kind" thing to do is for the passenger who acted out like an idiot to not act like an idiot, not act out and break the window, and not delay the flight for everyone else. It's not the responsibility of the rest of the passengers to accommodate him.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: as739x
Posted 2012-12-06 10:32:35 and read 13366 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Or become a worse criminal. Seriously, we have enough people in our overcrowded prisons, just fine him and ban him from the airline.

From a civil aviation standpoint, I was surprised at first but considering the millions of passengers carried every year, I guess we should expect stupidity like this incident ever so often. Someone needs anger management

100% agreed. He goes to jail and now we are paying for it with taxes. This stuff is going to happen with so may people flying. A nice FAT FINE and a ban from B6 sound good to me.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: type-rated
Posted 2012-12-06 11:20:59 and read 13212 times.

It seems Jet Blue has the "nut job" market cornered lately.

I've noticed that when passengers have their seat it kind of becomes "MY seat" and they get kind of possessive about it. Perhaps the F/A didn't bother to find out if someone would change seats with him (I know, not their job). Maybe the person(s) sitting next to Mama were a couple that didn't want to be moved either. The possibilities of this situation are endless.

I wonder if he hurt his hand breaking the inner window?

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: luvfa
Posted 2012-12-06 11:30:21 and read 13154 times.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):
It seems Jet Blue has the "nut job" market cornered lately.

its all those NYC-FL flights, lol!

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: web500sjc
Posted 2012-12-06 11:47:56 and read 13083 times.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):

Any one think that the other people might have been flying with someone else? Maybe children or loved ones. It was a flight from Orlando.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: CoachClass
Posted 2012-12-06 12:12:23 and read 12993 times.

Quoting Catiii (Reply 6):
Because there is a difference in inconveniencing a grown man who can't sit next to his mother, and a young child who can't sit next to his father. . .



I think that this was more than inconveniencing the man. He clearly had a mental problem. The mother was needed to keep him in check, it appears. We are seeing more and more mental illness situations and don't recognize them for what they are.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2012-12-06 12:33:39 and read 12895 times.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 19):
He clearly had a mental problem.

Is there a source for that? If not, there's not a lot of point speculating one way or the other, as there are equally as many violent jerks as there are people who might lapse into violence for medically-attributable reasons. If that was indeed the case, presumably the court will consider any connected mitigation.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Dalmd88
Posted 2012-12-06 13:24:21 and read 12681 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
Only an hour? I'd have thought it would have taken a lot longer than that to change a window.

Like a previous poster said he most likely only broke the inner scratch pane. Even if he did break the outer pane they are pretty quick to change. Not sure about the Bus but on Boeings they are just held in by a hand full of clips that just screw in place. For some you don't even have to remove the entire sidewall panel.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: flashmeister
Posted 2012-12-06 13:32:24 and read 12649 times.

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
A federal grand jury in Orland has indicted Ramirez on a charge of "destruction of an aircraft".

Being picky here, but that seems like a strange charge. As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to destroy an aircraft. It's illegal to destroy an aircraft that's not yours. So perhaps the charge is criminal mischief or malicious destruction of property or something.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Aesma
Posted 2012-12-06 13:36:13 and read 12615 times.

About the mother it could be that she's old and needs him and not the opposite. Still they should have asked for a pair of seats from the start. And if it's that big a deal don't even enter the aircraft, wait for the other passengers to seat then see with the crew what is possible.

I changed seats on my three last legs, although each time it was because I had a crappy window seat (once it had no actual window since the engine compressor was next to it !) and there were always several options so no big deal in my case.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: MountainFlyer
Posted 2012-12-06 13:41:23 and read 12589 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Or become a worse criminal. Seriously, we have enough people in our overcrowded prisons, just fine him and ban him from the airline.

  

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 22):
...As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to destroy an aircraft. It's illegal to destroy an aircraft that's not yours. So perhaps the charge is criminal mischief or malicious destruction of property or something.

On the contrary, it is very illegal to willfully damage or destroy aircraft under federal law. Federal law is very sensitive about crimes relating to aviation.

http://aviation.uslegal.com/offenses...s/federal-crimes-and-prosecutions/

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: TSS
Posted 2012-12-06 13:56:30 and read 12800 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 8):
The two situations aren't identical, but definitely analogous IMO. It doesn't hurt anyone (other pax who could potentially offer to change seats) to be kind.

But it hurts society as a whole when bad behavior gets rewarded.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: 727LOVER
Posted 2012-12-06 14:11:01 and read 12814 times.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 8):

Why should I? I do everything to get the seat that I want, From booking to check-in. Now I'm supposed to give up my window seat because someone else didn't plan ahead?

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: EagleBoy
Posted 2012-12-06 14:12:06 and read 12941 times.

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 22):
As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to destroy an aircraft. It's illegal to destroy an aircraft that's not yours

Better point that out to the USAF/USN/USMC

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2012-12-06 14:20:25 and read 12830 times.

So the plane goes back to the gate and it takes just one hour to replace the window? I assume this is one of those inner window panes - doesn't the entire side panel have to be removed in order to get at the window? And how many spare windows would an airline have sitting around? In all my years, I've never heard of one of those windows breaking and needing replacement. I'm surprised they had extras on hand.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 4):
Incredible replies on this thread, and very typical for this forum in the last years.

So true - now had he been fat as well, you'd really have seen some comments!

Quoting Catiii (Reply 14):
In any event a grown man should have the maturity level to be seated apart from his mother for the 1h45m flight to EWR.

Well who knows what was happening - it could be his mother is elderly and frail. My mom is 87 - she's no crybaby but getting a bit frail. I'd want to sit next to her on a flight just to make sure she's okay - I'm not sure I'd break a window if I didn't get my way (I might open an emergency door tho - just for fun).

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: SXDFC
Posted 2012-12-06 14:27:07 and read 12671 times.

Is it appropriate to ask if they will re-name this particular A/C "Blue My Stack"?  duck 

[Edited 2012-12-06 14:28:06]

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-06 14:36:17 and read 12401 times.

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 12):
Isn't there a superficial plastic window between the passenger and the real window? Probably just broke that one.

Good point, that's probably what it was.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: capitol8s
Posted 2012-12-06 15:03:44 and read 11886 times.

the flying public never ceases to amaze me.... unfortunate as it is for a family to be separated there is no excuse to act like you need a bed a Bellevue!.. I'm tired of all the EXCUSES as to WHY people do what they do in cases like this. Sounds like he will be paying the price!..

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: GALLEYSTEW
Posted 2012-12-06 16:25:02 and read 10634 times.

I have NO sympathy. You GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. You want seats together??? JetBLUE provides for that. Pay up if it is that important to you. I have flown on my own dime, and if I want preferred seating, you pay for it. Don't expect gate agents, flight attendants, or passengers who paid more to reserve their seats to accommodate you.

[Edited 2012-12-06 16:29:04]

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: AussieItaliano
Posted 2012-12-06 16:25:33 and read 10592 times.

Not knowing all the facts of what exactly happened, I can't really say a whole lot ... except ...

1) People have a right to travel safely without fear of intimidation. If someone's behaviour interferes with the safety and security of others, then that person has to be dealt with.

2) If someone does, indeed, suffer from mental illness, then that needs to be taken into consideration. This could be more of a medical intervention case rather than a criminal action, but again, I don't know all the facts.

3) Determining the difference between true manifestations of mental illness (which are not controllable) and behavioural problems (which are controllable) is not an easy task. But in my mind, it makes the entire difference between whether I view this as a criminal offence or a medical issue.

Remember, passengers are sometimes inconvenienced by medical issues (heart attacks in-flight, seizures, diabetic episodes, etc.). If this is a medical episode, then the inconvenience to passengers and crew is unfortunate, but not the fault of the passenger. If, however, the person acted out of line and it wasn't a medically explainable issue, then he should be held responsible for his actions.

However, I do not agree with putting him in jail, and then making society pay for him to be housed in order to learn how to become a better criminal.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2012-12-06 17:29:11 and read 9732 times.

I'd also like to touch on the mental illness part.

Let's not forget, prior to flying its quite common with people who have anxiety disorders to
be in 'an elevated state' of emotion. Couple that with somebody who has anger management is issues, or something
simple (we're not talking the heavy stuff but your every day garden variety) and it could just push them over the edge
judgment wise. I'm not saying they're about to go and massacre everybody before them, more, just "loose their cool",
in a way that's perhaps not appropriate.

For us, flying is an amazing thing. But you've got to remember for some, it feels like they're about to balance on the edge of a cliff and on the verge of being pushed off. That's how scary and crazy it feels.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: YVRFlyer
Posted 2012-12-06 19:14:56 and read 8636 times.

Quoting GALLEYSTEW (Reply 33):
I have NO sympathy. You GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. You want seats together??? JetBLUE provides for that. Pay up if it is that important to you. I have flown on my own dime, and if I want preferred seating, you pay for it. Don't expect gate agents, flight attendants, or passengers who paid more to reserve their seats to accommodate you.

  
Absolutely, an airline is not a charitable endeavour, despite what all the crybabies and their frivolous lawsuits would have us believe.

Quoting luvfa (Reply 17):
its all those NYC-FL flights, lol!

  
Plenty of crazies and dummies on both ends. So on a flight between each, it's a virtual empire of humanity's dregs. I pity anyone who has to work on those routes.   

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: flyBTV
Posted 2012-12-06 20:49:28 and read 7740 times.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 35):
For us, flying is an amazing thing. But you've got to remember for some, it feels like they're about to balance on the edge of a cliff and on the verge of being pushed off. That's how scary and crazy it feels.

Understood, but if flying makes you that uncomfortable, there are plenty of other options. One can drive, take the bus, and there are several trains that run between Florida and the New York area. I've taken the train several times, and its a pleasant experience (at least in a sleeper). I just don't buy the fear of flying that as a valid excuse for poor behavior.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: zippyjet
Posted 2012-12-07 00:12:09 and read 6418 times.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 5):

I like this idea, quite original. Talk about 15 minutes of fame! Jail? Not sure. Some have brought up emotional/mental issues. Have him receive a psychiatric evaluation and take it from there.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: varigb707
Posted 2012-12-07 01:06:53 and read 6066 times.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):
ban him from the airline.

Such persons, should be banned from the airline industry, entirely. IMHO.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-12-07 03:29:32 and read 5315 times.

He should have just grabbed a couple of beers and...

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: pvjin
Posted 2012-12-07 04:14:55 and read 4957 times.

Quoting varigb707 (Reply 38):
Such persons, should be banned from the airline industry, entirely. IMHO

Depends from why he did that, if he just has some kind of mental problem that he can't control himself it would be wise to treat it and when he's healthy he would be allowed to fly again.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: soon7x7
Posted 2012-12-07 04:50:57 and read 4645 times.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 4):
Anyone realize that this guy might have a mental disorder?

Airline policies of late leave much to be desired but to suppose the man has a mental disorder?...Kind of like the sport of football causing Belcher to murder his girlfriend, then to finally off himself..."It is a result of head trauma"...c'mon. The passenger may have had every right to be Angry...(apparently we are no longer allowed to display or react normally to ridiculous situations). While breaking the window is of course not the answer and a bit extreme, it ultimately caused major disruptions to the planeload of PAX...no one here knows the story...perhaps he was transporting a sick mother for a day in surgery...who knows. WN breaks up families all the time while other carriers charge for the "Luxury" of being seated in a group...BS!. The guy got angry=natural human emotion to probably an unreasonable situation. He just should have exercised control and gotten a grip. Belcher...He is a murderer...nothing more...nothing less...call things for what they really are...not for what we are today, brainwashed into believing they might be.
Post 9/11, post storm Sandy, Post election 2012, people seem to be disconnected from reality, behave like morons, drive like idiots and conduct themselves with total apathy. Mental disorders or the term should be re defined as just blatant stress. We have good reason to be stressed given all the shit news everyday regarding the economy, the division of our leaders in Washington, never ending tax, toll, insurance increases to everyone in a dead economy, threats of the "Fiscal Cliff" approaching and the apparent delusion of the classic "American dream". Then to top it off everyone tries to quell their despair with anti anxiety pharmaceuticals...no wonder this behavior is rampant.
Jail is not the answer...hit him for the part replacement, the labor to replace the window panel, and the fuel costs incurred by the diversion. He will learn more from that approach than jail time.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-12-07 05:39:14 and read 4164 times.

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Maybe a few years in "the slammer" will give him a chance to cool off a bit ?

Unfortunately we really don't have much to go on, the article was rather lacking in any details about it.We have to question if there could have been anything done to prevent this from happening in the first place. Was he under stress, why did he need to sit by his mother, I wonder if anybody bothered to find this out. The article did say how old his mother was and maybe she needed him and not the other way around.


Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 26):
Why should I? I do everything to get the seat that I want, From booking to check-in. Now I'm supposed to give up my window seat because someone else didn't plan ahead?

REALLY!!! You do everything you can? Do you throw a temper tantrum and cry when you can't get your precious window seat? So you know the reason that the incident started? Why would you not give up your seat for an elderly lady and her son? You are the reason I hate to fly anymore. Its me, me, me. You don't see it from any other point of view.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-12-07 06:56:00 and read 3291 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 42):
REALLY!!! You do everything you can? Do you throw a temper tantrum and cry when you can't get your precious window seat? So you know the reason that the incident started? Why would you not give up your seat for an elderly lady and her son? You are the reason I hate to fly anymore. Its me, me, me. You don't see it from any other point of view.

If a person plans ahead and potentially pays more to secure what they want or need for a flight, they shouldn't automatically be expected to yield that to someone who didn't plan ahead for what they want or need. To expect that seems even more selfish, to me.

A particular kind of seat may seem trivial, but for an enthusiast like me who doesn't fly much it is a big deal to get a window seat...important enough that I have at times paid more to get one. Likewise, if sitting with his mother was important enough to punch a window out over, then this asshat should have planned ahead and bought up if necessary to ensure his needs would be met.

If he did buy contiguous seats and Jetblue shafted him, that's a different issue - but still not any other passenger's problem and not worth punching a window out over.

[Edited 2012-12-07 07:12:20]

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: longhauler
Posted 2012-12-07 07:07:38 and read 3173 times.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 41):

Very well stated.

Unfortunately, that is what flying has become ... an exercise in stress.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 43):
Likewise, if sitting with his mother was important enough to punch a window out over, then this asshat should have planned ahead and bought up if necessary to ensure his needs would be met.

As we don't know the whole story, he may well have done just that. Planned well ahead, paid extra only to have those plans changed by someone who may not be sympathetic. Then be told, "This is the way it is, you sit there, your mother sits over there, I don't care if you paid extra, take it up with head office, now get on the airplane .... next"

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: jamake1
Posted 2012-12-07 07:13:56 and read 3101 times.

Quoting GALLEYSTEW (Reply 32):
I have NO sympathy. You GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. You want seats together??? JetBLUE provides for that. Pay up if it is that important to you. I have flown on my own dime, and if I want preferred seating, you pay for it. Don't expect gate agents, flight attendants, or passengers who paid more to reserve their seats to accommodate you.

Really? I'm cabin crew and frequently solicit passengers to see if they'd be willing to change seats in order to accommodate a family. I don't see it as that big of a deal and usually when I explain that I need to accommodate a parent with their small children, most are very understanding. I consider it as part of my job description...

Getting back to the topic, I say better a window casing than a member of the crew...

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: richierich
Posted 2012-12-07 07:19:47 and read 3032 times.

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 12):
Isn't there a superficial plastic window between the passenger and the real window? Probably just broke that one.

My first thought was the glass on the divider between Row 1 and the FA, inside the cabin. I could easily see this being a one hour fix. I can't imagine breaking any window to view outside the aircraft, whether the plastic window or not, taking only one hour to fix - but I could be wrong.

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 33):
However, I do not agree with putting him in jail, and then making society pay for him to be housed in order to learn how to become a better criminal.

It seems like many have jumped to conclusions here. I think what needs to happen is this guy needs to go through due process and that will decide his punishment. If he is mentally ill, then jail may not be the best place for him. If he is just an angry, arrogant prick, then maybe it is. Seeing as nobody on this site knows for sure, the best punishment is irrelevant to to the topic. Clearly his actions were completely unacceptable though.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-12-07 07:23:25 and read 2980 times.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 44):
As we don't know the whole story, he may well have done just that. Planned well ahead, paid extra only to have those plans changed by someone who may not be sympathetic. Then be told, "This is the way it is, you sit there, your mother sits over there, I don't care if you paid extra, take it up with head office, now get on the airplane .... next"

I get that...but not sure that other passengers inherit some sort of moral obligation to make up for the airline's SNAFU if that is the case.

Either way the basic question becomes: At what point is violence the appropriate response to a disagreement over seating on an airplane?

Answer: Never. If you get violent, then I think you need to be held accountable for it under whatever criminal and/or civil laws apply. The legal process includes consideration of factors in extenuation or mitigation...like mental illness, the airline's poor service etc.

Edit: Richie beat me to it...

Quoting richierich (Reply 46):
It seems like many have jumped to conclusions here. I think what needs to happen is this guy needs to go through due process and that will decide his punishment. If he is mentally ill, then jail may not be the best place for him. If he is just an angry, arrogant prick, then maybe it is. Seeing as nobody on this site knows for sure, the best punishment is irrelevant to to the topic. Clearly his actions were completely unacceptable though.


[Edited 2012-12-07 07:25:05]

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-12-07 07:46:46 and read 2838 times.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 43):
Likewise, if sitting with his mother was important enough to punch a window out over, then this asshat should have planned ahead and bought up if necessary to ensure his needs would be met.



Maybe he did plan ahead, make the arrangements and then found a person in his seat and was told to take another seat, the F/A should have been more accommodating for the family, as we don't know any details as they were not in the story reported we are really just guessing.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 43):
If he did buy contiguous seats and Jetblue shafted him, that's a different issue - but still not any other passenger's problem and not worth punching a window out over.

I agree, punching out a window is not going to get you any sympathy from me.

Quoting richierich (Reply 46):
My first thought was the glass on the divider between Row 1 and the FA, inside the cabin. I could easily see this being a one hour fix. I can't imagine breaking any window to view outside the aircraft, whether the plastic window or not, taking only one hour to fix - but I could be wrong.

I seriously doubt the window its self was punched out as that would not bode well for the aircraft ability to fly, but I am willing to believe that it was the interior panel that may have been damaged since they were able to get under way, again the story lacks details and we know that the media won't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: longhauler
Posted 2012-12-07 09:38:20 and read 2691 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 48):
I seriously doubt the window its self was punched out as that would not bode well for the aircraft ability to fly, but I am willing to believe that it was the interior panel that may have been damaged since they were able to get under way,

That is my guess, as due to proximity of the middle and outer windows, the inner panel can be no more than "cracked" from the inside. It can be dispatched by MEL though, and likely that is what took "an hour". To get maintenance on board to confirm no other damage was done, then to get approval.

Topic: RE: Irate Man Punches, Breaks Window, Jet Blue
Username: OB1504
Posted 2012-12-09 20:03:45 and read 2245 times.

Quoting GALLEYSTEW (Reply 32):
I have NO sympathy. You GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. You want seats together??? JetBLUE provides for that. Pay up if it is that important to you. I have flown on my own dime, and if I want preferred seating, you pay for it. Don't expect gate agents, flight attendants, or passengers who paid more to reserve their seats to accommodate you.
Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 43):
If a person plans ahead and potentially pays more to secure what they want or need for a flight, they shouldn't automatically be expected to yield that to someone who didn't plan ahead for what they want or need. To expect that seems even more selfish, to me.

   I see this every day when checking people in. On most flights, there are only middle seats left scattered throughout the cabin because most travelers pre-reserved their seats at the time of booking (often at no additional charge). I'm not inconveniencing other customers because the people who showed up five minutes before the flight closed for check-in couldn't be bothered to do their due diligence and pick their seats.


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