Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5624600/

Topic: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-12-02 15:38:33 and read 4689 times.

Hi all,

Over the past few months, a variety of city-specific and region-specific threads have developed, and have been incredibly popular. I thought a.net could use one for ATL!

Current events/proposals include:

the effect of WN's acquisition of FL on ATL, and the timeline for combining the two carriers' operations in ATL

scheduled A380 service by KE (gate testing is now postponed until January 2013)

possible addition of service by B6 (note: this is pure speculation at this stage)

possible 787 service by QR

Please do not let this thread become another discussion of how ATL is or isn't overserved, as there is already a thread for that   Let the discussions begin, and Happy Holidays!

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-12-02 15:53:02 and read 4665 times.

Also the possible WN-DL gate switch. The 2 things I have heard are WN getting all of C and WN getting all of the North D gates giving DL all of C.

I have no inside knowledge but if I were WN I would tell DL, WN gets all of C or we don't change a thing because WN can not fit all of the additional pax from the current RJs DL operates in the D concourse.

Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
the effect of WN's acquisition of FL on ATL, and the timeline for combining the two carriers' operations in ATL

Well their is a current thread on this already so I would keep away from this.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: AV8AJET
Posted 2012-12-02 15:56:25 and read 4670 times.

I think that ATL has done a great job attracting cargo operations, but now I would Love to see some new passenger additions. We almost had TK service but that never happened, still hope to see QR come to ATL and who know's if the KE A380 will ever show up or a possible AF A380. Great that we still see BA, LH, KL serve ATL but it would be nice to see some different airlines. A return of JL would be nice but doubt it along with Swiss. I had heard DL was interested in a flight to Bangkok and that DL had pushed the City of Atlanta to extend 27R to help with that, (not sure if that's reality or not). Come on ATL get some free wifi access also!!! They claim to have it in Concourse E but I've never been able to get it to work. Just curious but does BA offer a "full" 4-class service to LHR? Or are they still blocking the First Class section?

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-02 16:01:33 and read 4661 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
I thought a.net could use one for ATL!

I'm surprised there hasn't been a thread yet  
Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
the effect of WN's acquisition of FL on ATL, and the timeline for combining the two carriers' operations in ATL

looks like, per another thread, WN is not liking ATL as much, especially with competition from DL.

Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
possible 787 service by QR

Has this been confirmed yet? I heard many rumors, but haven't actually seen anything confirmed yet.


Stopped by Concourse F during a recent layover in ATL; it looks really good!

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-02 16:10:08 and read 4640 times.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 2):
I had heard DL was interested in a flight to Bangkok

Never, ever going to happen. The yields on BKK-US are awful, and if they did it ATL wouldn't be the gateway.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 2):
We almost had TK service but that never happened, still hope to see QR come to ATL and who know's if the KE A380 will ever show up or a possible AF A380.

As far as airline variety, ATL is a victim of DL's success. There are very few routes that a foreign flag carrier could make work that DL cannot, but very few routes not already flown that could support two carriers.

It's a similar story in, for instance, CLT, which could likely support BA pretty easily if it wasn't a US hub.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: globalflyer
Posted 2012-12-02 16:25:38 and read 4617 times.

Yes BA has the four class 777 to LHR from ATL. I have flown in both FCL and JCL. First was incredible. Business was one of the worst JCL in the industry. DL rates so much higher in their JCL.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-12-02 19:50:19 and read 4467 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
As far as airline variety, ATL is a victim of DL's success. There are very few routes that a foreign flag carrier could make work that DL cannot, but very few routes not already flown that could support two carriers.

To an extent, I think this often applies with domestic operations also, and is part of the reason why FL (and now WN) was (and is) a victim of DL operations in ATL.

[Edited 2012-12-02 19:51:05]

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-02 20:04:34 and read 4444 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 6):
To an extent, I think this often applies with domestic operations also,

Maybe. But if you look at a market like DEN, which is a smaller city but may have somewhat more demand, I don't know that you see evidence that a legacy hub inhibits LFC operations in too many city pairs.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Litz
Posted 2012-12-03 11:37:00 and read 4262 times.

Free WiFi was announced a month or so ago... They have to wait for the existing contract to run out first, though... Supposed to be within the next year...

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-12-03 12:39:11 and read 4209 times.

Quoting Litz (Reply 8):

It's about time!    ATL is my home airport, and I've gotten tired of having to access the internet from my phone while waiting to board flights there!

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: srbmod
Posted 2012-12-03 13:27:13 and read 4153 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
Never, ever going to happen. The yields on BKK-US are awful, and if they did it ATL wouldn't be the gateway.

It would probably make more sense to keep doing what they're currently doing and having BKK traffic connect at NRT.

Quoting Litz (Reply 8):
Free WiFi was announced a month or so ago... They have to wait for the existing contract to run out first, though... Supposed to be within the next year...

With more and more folks carrying smartphones, Wifi/Wimax dongles/portable hotspots or tablets with 3G/4G capability, this could be a case of too little too late.

KE will still be bringing the A380 to ATL, it's just slightly delayed due to the airport and airfield upgrades not being completed and ready in time for the original planned date for KE putting the A380 into ATL. I figure that the new start date will be either late Spring or early Summer. As for AF bringing it into ATL, that one I'm not as certain about. The only way I could see them bringing the A380 into ATL would be if they cut down to one flight a day.

As for new airlines into ATL, other than the rumored QR service, I don't see anything on the horizon. I don't think ATL is currently on B6's radar and probably won't be until the WN/FL integration is complete and FL ceases to exist as a brand, which is not expected for at least another two years. By then, who knows how much WN will have contracted at ATL. ATL has been supposedly on VX's radar for the last few years yet they still haven't entered the market and if the rumors about the airline being given an ultimatum by their investors are true, they may never enter the market.

I think that the rumored WN/FL and DL gate swaps will happen, but it may not be as we might think. It could actually involve multiple airlines.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-03 13:41:42 and read 4132 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
It would probably make more sense to keep doing what they're currently doing and having BKK traffic connect at NRT.

Yup. The other issue is that it's a very long way from the United State to Thailand.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-03 13:45:45 and read 4127 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
It would probably make more sense to keep doing what they're currently doing and having BKK traffic connect at NRT

Its not as if ATL-BKK is even a large local market. ATL-BKK makes no sense at all.

ATL-Asia is a mystery into itself. Around 40% of the entire ATL-Asia local O&D is ATL-ICN. The upside to that is ATL-ICN is absolutely huge. The downside to that is that ATL-Asia is the most lopsided unbalanced Asia O&D of all the major cities.

ATL-ICN is the single largest international O&D city from Atlanta. Its larger than ATL-CUN or ATL-LHR.

[Edited 2012-12-03 13:51:44]

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-03 16:09:30 and read 4033 times.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
KE will still be bringing the A380 to ATL, it's just slightly delayed due to the airport and airfield upgrades not being completed and ready in time for the original planned date for KE putting the A380 into ATL.

Where would the A380 gate be? On the E concourse or the F concourse?

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: AV8AJET
Posted 2012-12-03 16:20:33 and read 4020 times.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 13):

Where would the A380 gate be? On the E concourse or the F concourse?

Think it's only E (a combo of E1 & E3).

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-03 20:00:47 and read 3927 times.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 2):
I had heard DL was interested in a flight to Bangkok and that DL had pushed the City of Atlanta to extend 27R to help with that,

The reason for the runway extension is to give the 777 and 747(and A380 now) a little bit more roll time. Helps with cargo to places like DXB, ICN, NRT and JNB.

Only way ATL-BKK happens is if they route the ATL-NRT and NRT-BKK flight numbers the same.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1):
Also the possible WN-DL gate switch. The 2 things I have heard are WN getting all of C and WN getting all of the North D gates giving DL all of C.

Here is the problem with both.
WN moves to D, WN loses gate space. Delta just paid to have a club put on D and just paid to have its bag system put all the way out to D(though this likely doesn't matter because of E)
DL moving to C then Delta not only pisses away its new club on C but also gives up a ton of space and gives WN room to grow.

At this point I don't seen anything happening except some kind of deal to get UA all on D or T(which IMO would mean AA moving to D....something that likely wont happen)

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 14):

Your right.

Isn't the master plan update due sometime soon. Likely a 6th runway and some form of gate growth.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-12-03 22:04:46 and read 3872 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):
some kind of deal to get UA all on D or T

Couldn't this take place if DL agreed to move its T operations to D? Why do you think that AA wouldn't be willing to move to D? Is it because of convenience to its customers/staff due to T being the closest to the terminal? I think it would be very inconvenient for UA (and their passengers) to have their operations in 2 completely different parts of the airport.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):
Isn't the master plan update due sometime soon.

It is due in late 2013. I too am hoping for plans for a 6th runway. I also wonder if the South Gate Complex is still under consideration. IMO, that would be the easiest way to add gates.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-03 22:15:24 and read 3872 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 16):
Couldn't this take place if DL agreed to move its T operations to D? Why do you think that AA wouldn't be willing to move to D? Is it because of convenience to its customers/staff due to T being the closest to the terminal? I think it would be very inconvenient for UA (and their passengers) to have their operations in 2 completely different parts of the airport.

few reasons AA wont, IMO, leave.
The two biggest would be convenience and the fact that AA has mostly its own "stuff" (so think things like bag room etc) because AA got most of the old FIS offices etc. Plus AA would have to have a club, though i guess they could take over the UA club on D.
DL likely wont leave for the same first reason as AA. T is the only place DL can park all of its widebody fleet outside of E/F(Delta can park 67s on A) DL is(was?) trying to run flights to places like ORD/LGA and DCA out of T vs A/B also.

I think UA will end up getting to take over ~2 of the CUTE gates on D(which IIRC they already use 1 plus the 3-4 CO gates) and move to D. I expect Delta to take over the few UA T gates.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 16):

It is due in late 2013. I too am hoping for plans for a 6th runway. I also wonder if the South Gate Complex is still under consideration. IMO, that would be the easiest way to add gates.

I agree but it depends on where they put the new runway. I personally hope they don't try to move forward with relocating the Delta jet base(unless Delta/City were to rebuild it completely, which I don't think they will do. I think it would be used as a reason to move more work to Mexico....JMO) I don't see where TOC could be moved that it would be built back to what it is. (they said the old Ford plant, but just simply looking at google earth it wont fit)

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: thekennady
Posted 2012-12-03 22:55:04 and read 3865 times.

ATL is a fortress hub for DL, Serving a growing but no so diverse market. ATL has a big coporate base, but its International O&d is not as strong as other major cities. As far as international airlines go, unless they work with DL, the market cannot support multiple carriers to most foriegn destinations(besides LHR, FRA). Even most of the INTL routes DL flies only work because of the connectivity DL has at ATL.There are more profitable markets for foriegn carriers to open before ATL, and with DL dominance, its keeps most of them away. ATL only has 7 intl airlines, which is small compared to other major hubs. With WN planning to downsize ATL, maybe some domestic routes or carriers may look at service, but with a giant like DL having most the nation covered it may not be a high priority. As far as the A380, i could see it become a reality, the airport can handle it with the upgrades and there are two canidates that could begin service

[Edited 2012-12-03 23:00:16]

[Edited 2012-12-03 23:02:35]

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-03 23:11:45 and read 3858 times.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 18):
As far as the A380, i could see it become a reality, the airport can handle it and there are two canidates that could begin service

It will be reality. KE has already said they will be bringing the A380 to ATL. It was going to start this month....but like normal the city is dragging ass which has caused a delay to A380 flights.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: LN-MOW
Posted 2012-12-03 23:18:39 and read 3858 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
KE has already said they will be bringing the A380 to ATL

Amadeus say 04Aug ...

QR will make more US announcements soon. ATL's supposed to be one of them.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: thekennady
Posted 2012-12-03 23:23:17 and read 3855 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):
possible 787 service by QR
Quoting jporterfi (Thread starter):



With QR joining One world, what would support this? there is a growing indian population in the Atlanta area as well as business traffic to that region but that may already be covered through skyteam at AMS and CDG. And with DL already to DXB, it might be a tough one. It would certianly add some flare to ATL, only time will tell. QR is still doing some route and handling testing with the 787s, they are being flown into KWI, i witnessed this the other day.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-12-04 01:47:54 and read 3824 times.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 21):

I think QR is interested in this route mostly for O&D traffic, not so much to funnel people to DOH for connections (hence the reason they are using a 787 as opposed to a larger a/c). I was surprised and intrigued when I heard about it from Akbar al Bakar, and agree that time will tell whether this route will be successful. I can't wait to see the 787 in ATL (hopefully QR will come through with its plans).

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: globalflyer
Posted 2012-12-04 02:14:51 and read 3817 times.

It will be interesting to see QR in ATL for passenger service. They already have Cargo services. Although if EY has the AF/KL/DL codeshares possible JV, then I think it would make much more sense to have EY service ATL to AUH. But I am not picky and would welcome ANY new passenger service. As the World's Busiest Airport, ATL has the least amount of diverse scheduled passenger carriers. I remember the days of the likes of JL, RG, SN, SA, OS, SR, KX, UP, JM, LAPA of Argentina (forgot their code), LV, LM, etc. I am sure there are others...

There had been rumours that WS would start a service to ATL (not sure if that was YYC and/or YYZ) after the SA)">DL code share but I have not heard anything lately.

B6 have told me that BOS would likely be the route to ATL (no firm dates or commitments) but as stated before maybe a MCO or FLL route would work as well to connect to the Caribbean.

I would still like to see the SkyTeam carriers enter the ATL market. SU on a ATL-SVO, AZ to FCO (highly unlikely), CI to TPE via YVR with a fifth freedom route on the ATL-YVR sector, KQ to NBO, AR to EZE (Again highly unlikely) and then some of the Chinese carriers. Of course most of these would NEVER happen but it would be cool to see some new colours.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: thekennady
Posted 2012-12-04 04:13:05 and read 3786 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 22):
I think QR is interested in this route mostly for O&D traffic,

Would be great, but with just O&D could ATL provide enough demand? I wonder what ATL-DOH PDEW is. Maybe QR feels there is a market for them in ATL that they can exploit. I dont believe EY or EK would come to ATL if QR gets there first. So its most than likely 1 carrier or bust. I can see QR looking at ATL as being a potential market because of the crazy numbers it puts up passenger wise, but if they are strickly relying on O&D Its a different world.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-04 05:39:57 and read 3895 times.

Quoting thekennady (Reply 24):
Would be great, but with just O&D could ATL provide enough demand? I wonder what ATL-DOH PDEW is. Maybe QR feels there is a market for them in ATL that they can exploit. I dont believe EY or EK would come to ATL if QR gets there first. So its most than likely 1 carrier or bust. I can see QR looking at ATL as being a potential market because of the crazy numbers it puts up passenger wise, but if they are strickly relying on O&D Its a different world.

Ask and you shall receive.

QR isnt after the ATL-DOH market. Its about 3 passengers a day.

What QR would be after would be the travel to the region as a whole. ATL-India is about 150 passengers a day and mainly centered on BOM and DEL. To put that in perspective, its about the same size as SEA-India, larger than DTW or MSP-India, but smaller than DFW, IAH, and BOS-India.

ATL's largest O&D market in the Middle East is DXB with 41 passengers. Following that its TLV with 40 passengers and Kuwait with 14 passengers.

They could get some Sub-Sahara Africa traffic as well. There is around 30 passengers a day from ATL to the far eastern side of Africa (minus South Africa).

Ill let you guys decide if the you think the data makes it worth while.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Mark2fly1034
Posted 2012-12-04 05:49:05 and read 3891 times.

The A380 gate is up and ready to go it looks like



They might move the Delta TOC where the old Ford plant was to add a new Concourse and build a new terminal near the 5th runway and have that for WN

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Dalmd88
Posted 2012-12-04 12:24:24 and read 3830 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 17):
don't see where TOC could be moved that it would be built back to what it is. (they said the old Ford plant, but just simply looking at google earth it wont fit)

They don't have to move the entire facility. If just the engine shop complex was moved there would be room to almost double the gates at F. That includes leaving the waste treatment complex in place. Those shops do not need direct ramp access so they could be moved outside of the loop road.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: srbmod
Posted 2012-12-04 14:38:27 and read 3738 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 17):
I agree but it depends on where they put the new runway. I personally hope they don't try to move forward with relocating the Delta jet base(unless Delta/City were to rebuild it completely, which I don't think they will do. I think it would be used as a reason to move more work to Mexico....JMO) I don't see where TOC could be moved that it would be built back to what it is. (they said the old Ford plant, but just simply looking at google earth it wont fit)

Talk has been of putting it where the originally planned to put the fifth runway at on the northside of the airport.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 23):
There had been rumours that WS would start a service to ATL (not sure if that was YYC and/or YYZ) after the SA)">DL code share but I have not heard anything lately.

That's an interesting one. DL did offer ATL-YYC service several years back, but these days in order to get to YYC or YEG on DL one has to connect at MSP (You can connect at SLC, but typical Delta bookings connect via MSP.). Last year some friends of mine from Alberta went to MYR and it was a long day of travel as they had to connect at MSP and ATL in order to get from YYC and YEG to MYR.

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 26):
They might move the Delta TOC where the old Ford plant was to add a new Concourse and build a new terminal near the 5th runway and have that for WN

The idea of building a new concourse or two on the site of Delta TechOps and Delta Cargo is something Richard Anderson tossed out there and to be honest, that's probably a really expensive one.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-12-04 16:46:11 and read 3660 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 25):

Well, there goes my woefully incorrect theory. I think you may be on to something with regard to traffic to that region. I'm not sure if it will last if those numbers don't increase. DL already serves ATL-DXB, and i don't know if QR can last with only BOM/DEL and Eastern Africa traffic. However I think that they made the right decision by deciding to enter the market to see if they have a chance of survival against DL and other carriers that want to funnel traffic to that region (like EK).

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-04 19:53:00 and read 3588 times.

Quoting Mark2fly1034 (Reply 26):

They might move the Delta TOC where the old Ford plant was to add a new Concourse and build a new terminal near the 5th runway and have that for WN

why does WN get it? What makes them so deserving of a new terminal.

Guess making ATL what it is isn't worth much these days. smh

Quoting srbmod (Reply 28):
Talk has been of putting it where the originally planned to put the fifth runway at on the northside of the airport.

So would that mean the end of the WN/EV hangars and north cargo( and Delta North maybe even the Renny?)

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 27):

They don't have to move the entire facility. If just the engine shop complex was moved there would be room to almost double the gates at F. That includes leaving the waste treatment complex in place. Those shops do not need direct ramp access so they could be moved outside of the loop road.

I know, but i would still rather not see any of the complex moved.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-04 20:24:16 and read 3554 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 29):
Well, there goes my woefully incorrect theory. I think you may be on to something with regard to traffic to that region. I'm not sure if it will last if those numbers don't increase. DL already serves ATL-DXB, and i don't know if QR can last with only BOM/DEL and Eastern Africa traffic. However I think that they made the right decision by deciding to enter the market to see if they have a chance of survival against DL and other carriers that want to funnel traffic to that region (like EK).

My argument was not that QR cant make ATL work, just rather that there are no economic or VFR ties between ATL and Qatar. The traffic worth going for is whats beyond DOH, not DOH itself.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: thekennady
Posted 2012-12-04 20:29:43 and read 3554 times.

[quote=LAXdude1023,reply=25]
QR isnt after the ATL-DOH market. Its about 3 passengers a day.

What QR would be after would be the travel to the region as a whole. ATL-India is about 150 passengers a day and mainly centered on BOM and DEL. To put that in perspective, its about the same size as SEA-India, larger than DTW or MSP-India, but smaller than DFW, IAH, and BOS-India.

ATL's largest O&D market in the Middle East is DXB with 41 passengers. Following that its TLV with 40 passengers and Kuwait with 14 passengers.

They could get some Sub-Sahara Africa traffic as well. There is around 30 passengers a day from ATL to the far eastern side of Africa (minus South Africa).

Ill let you guys decide if the you think the data makes it worth

Not the strongest market, but i guess QR feels they can offer a product that will pull passengers. Maybe the flight will operate 3 to 4 times weekly to make it profitable. However, seems like QR and the gulf carriers like to enter markets and have it grow around them. ATL-DOH could start slow but eventually catch on. The question is how long would QR wait for this route to mature. Even DL tried KWI, TLV, and BOM and none of them lasted, ATL to Asia in general is a tough market to make work.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: FreshSide3
Posted 2012-12-04 20:43:26 and read 3535 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 29):
DL already serves ATL-DXB, and i don't know if QR can last with only BOM/DEL and Eastern Africa traffic.

It would not surprise me, though, if Ethiopian would put a non-daily trip to ATL, especially with the ties, and more 787s coming to ET. If they do, that would steal a lot of thunder from QR.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-05 05:18:45 and read 3469 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
why does WN get it? What makes them so deserving of a new terminal.

The same reason FL was to move to the South Terminal. It makes no sense for DL to have a piecemeal operation.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2012-12-05 08:23:04 and read 3391 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 16):
Couldn't this take place if DL agreed to move its T operations to D? Why do you think that AA wouldn't be willing to move to D? Is it because of convenience to its customers/staff due to T being the closest to the terminal? I think it would be very inconvenient for UA (and their passengers) to have their operations in 2 completely different parts of the airport.

There are several problems with that theory.

DL won't be vacating T concourse. T01-T07 can park widebodies. Specifically, T02 can park up to a 747. T03 can park up to a 777.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 17):
trying to run flights to places like ORD/LGA and DCA out of T vs A/B also.

DCA, LGA, DFW, BOS are pretty much exclusively out of T now.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-05 11:38:36 and read 3314 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):

The same reason FL was to move to the South Terminal. It makes no sense for DL to have a piecemeal operation.

No one was named yet for the SGC.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 35):

DL won't be vacating T concourse. T01-T07 can park widebodies. Specifically, T02 can park up to a 747. T03 can park up to a 777.

     

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 35):

DCA, LGA, DFW, BOS are pretty much exclusively out of T now.

Not ORD?

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: srbmod
Posted 2012-12-05 12:55:16 and read 3293 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
So would that mean the end of the WN/EV hangars and north cargo( and Delta North maybe even the Renny?)

Originally the fifth runway was to be a 5000'-6000' runway designed for commuter a/c and could have been easily placed on the northside of the airport with minimum relocation of airport facilities. When the plans changed to make it the length that was built, that killed the location on the northside because of the Ford Plant.

A new runway can be built without having to tear down the AirTran/Southwest hangar and ExpressJet hangar/general offices. The FBO, the fuel farms, and most of the cargo buildings on that side would have to go (although they would probably only have to partially demolish the North Cargo building, maybe keeping FedEx's end. They could easily expand South Cargo as the current facility still has room to grow and they do own part of the land the former Ford Plant was on (Porsche will be moving their North American HQ from Sandy Springs to Hapeville using some of the old Ford Plant land and will also build a test track on. They do have an option on another parcel adjacent to where they are building their HQ and test track and if they pass on the parcel, the City of Atlanta had first dibs on it.) and some of that will be turned into airport parking since there are development restrictions due to the 1000' runway exclusion zone (which they previous did not have for the northernmost runway due to the Ford Plant) and it has been mentioned about possibly using that land for a cargo facility or maintenance facility.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2012-12-05 12:57:10 and read 3286 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 36):

ORD's been all over the place today. Departures from A32, A26, A12, A2, A31, A27, D13, A34 with the rest slated for A28 and A33.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-12-05 13:08:33 and read 3275 times.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 35):
DL won't be vacating T concourse. T01-T07 can park widebodies. Specifically, T02 can park up to a 747. T03 can park up to a 777.

This makes a lot more sense now, thanks. I can see why DL would need/want a place to park widebodies for domestic ops (so that people wouldn't have to walk all the way to E/F to board a domestic 777).

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 35):
DCA, LGA, DFW, BOS are pretty much exclusively out of T now.

Why do you think DL chose to operate flights to those destinations out of T? I didn't think those cities say much widebody service from ATL. DFW, ORD, and LGA I can understand, possibly to compete with AA/MQ who also runs flights out of T, but why DCA and BOS?

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2012-12-05 13:31:36 and read 3262 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 39):
Why do you think DL chose to operate flights to those destinations out of T? I didn't think those cities say much widebody service from ATL. DFW, ORD, and LGA I can understand, possibly to compete with AA/MQ who also runs flights out of T, but why DCA and BOS?

Likely because these flights see a higher concentration of local passengers, notably business travelers who tend to be on higher fares. It'd be a competitive advantage to have them be able to easily go curb-to-gate in 5 minutes or so.

I often fly up to LGA and with PreCheck know I can easily arrive at the airport 25 minutes prior to departure and not sweat making a flight up to LGA. It's a huge advantage that only AA can reasonably offer (and even there, their security queue isn't by PreCheck...)

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Litz
Posted 2012-12-05 13:32:27 and read 3265 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 39):
DFW, ORD, and LGA I can understand, possibly to compete with AA/MQ who also runs flights out of T, but why DCA and BOS?

Simple: business travel. You don't want your elite FFs flying to the northeast to have to go all the way to E or F...

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-05 14:10:49 and read 3257 times.

Quoting Litz (Reply 41):
Simple: business travel. You don't want your elite FFs flying to the northeast to have to go all the way to E or F...

I don't really understand BOS, which has no nonstop competition on a legacy carrier. There's no one to compete with.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: globalflyer
Posted 2012-12-06 06:14:59 and read 3090 times.

Precheck in ATL has now moved to the Central Security area as of Nov 28th. I wonder why? Does this mean that other airlines now participate in ATL? I flew out of ATL on Nov 27th and saw the sign of the move but have not seen the location in person. Pre-check really is an awesome time saver!

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Dalmd88
Posted 2012-12-06 13:32:36 and read 2983 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 42):
I don't really understand BOS, which has no nonstop competition on a legacy carrier. There's no one to compete with.

It isn't always about direct competition. It is about giving the same service to all of your top domestic business destinations.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-06 13:49:19 and read 2971 times.

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 44):
It isn't always about direct competition. It is about giving the same service to all of your top domestic business destinations.

But that doesn't explain the choice of BOS over, for instance, IAH or MIA.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: comairguycvg
Posted 2012-12-06 16:20:24 and read 2913 times.

My department told me in the meeting just the other day that KE is still scheduled to start A380 service in late Jan or early Feb. Still no hard date set. In fact, they also said that a surprise A380 was supposed to have come to ATL on Sat Dec 8th for gate testing but was canceled for whatever reason.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: dlramp4life
Posted 2012-12-06 18:40:18 and read 2849 times.

Quoting comairguycvg (Reply 46):

Interesting. I thought it was slated for late spring/early summer. Looks like they will have to rush ramp crews through training ASAP unless KE is not having DL do the ground work anymore like LH...

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2012-12-06 18:57:49 and read 2822 times.

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 27):
They don't have to move the entire facility. If just the engine shop complex was moved there would be room to almost double the gates at F. That includes leaving the waste treatment complex in place. Those shops do not need direct ramp access so they could be moved outside of the loop road.

Why not just move all engine shops to MSP (expand the facility there)?

Plus, if they take TOC I with it, they could get rid of that pesky "Fly Delta Jets" sign before someone declares it a "landmark."   

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: jporterfi
Posted 2012-12-06 19:12:17 and read 2802 times.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 48):
Plus, if they take TOC I with it, they could get rid of that pesky "Fly Delta Jets" sign before someone declares it a "landmark."   

   I like that sign! I highly doubt they would move all of their engine shops away from their biggest hub. Maybe some, but not all. I like the idea of moving them outside the loop road and then trucking them to the hangers when they need to be fitted onto an aircraft.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 45):

I think he is assuming that more business travelers go to BOS than IAH or MIA. Also, IAH and MIA have competition from UA and AA respectively (but I do understand your angle).

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2012-12-06 19:39:16 and read 2787 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 49):
I like the idea of moving them outside the loop road and then trucking them to the hangers when they need to be fitted onto an aircraft.

I agree with you, but there are truck(s) going between TechOps MSP and TechOps ATL Daily. Engines transport on tractor/trailers quite easily (Except the Trent & GE90, and those aren't worked in ATL anyway)......It's not an impossibility.

I made the comment about the sign tongue in cheek, but Atlanta has a history of bulldozing historical landmarks. If it comes between terminal expansion and a neon sign, the terminal will win out.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-06 20:38:31 and read 2760 times.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 48):
Why not just move all engine shops to MSP (expand the facility there)?

......or not do that  

but is this a joke....or you for real?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 45):

But that doesn't explain the choice of BOS over, for instance, IAH or MIA.

Because its a huge Delta FF market. high paying Delta FFs. or at least this is what I was told. Kinda surprised MIA doesn't fly from T. (of course it not like A is *that* far away)

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 49):
I like the idea of moving them outside the loop road and then trucking them to the hangers when they need to be fitted onto an aircraft.

Things flow so much better with the current system. Having to move engines to and from the shop, across loop road, would be less than ideal.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 50):
(Except the Trent & GE90, and those aren't worked in ATL anyway)

The T800s aren't trucked to AFW? I guess the 90s go to Europe via boat?

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2012-12-06 21:09:28 and read 2750 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 51):
but is this a joke....or you for real?

I haven't heard anything about it...... Let's just say that it could happen if ATL wanted the terminal space and MSP wanted jobs to return.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 51):
The T800s aren't trucked to AFW? I guess the 90s go to Europe via boat?

I'm not sure about either anymore. I have seen Trents fly on AN-12s out of the Jet base, but that was years ago.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-06 22:14:36 and read 2725 times.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 52):

I haven't heard anything about it...... Let's just say that it could happen if ATL wanted the terminal space and MSP wanted jobs to return.

....I mean do you want this to happen?

It wont, Delta isn't going to piss off all those old timers in the engine shop. Also moving to MSP takes away right to work, and likely gets hard core union NWA blood back into the system (remember the current NWA guys would mostly be scabs)

They would rebuild the engine shop here or "cut cost" and move it to Mexico(right next to that pretty new hangar)....JMO

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2012-12-07 03:13:09 and read 2704 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 53):
....I mean do you want this to happen?

No.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 53):
It wont, Delta isn't going to piss off all those old timers in the engine shop.

Offer a good enough package, and a bunch will choose to leave/retire. Pro-unioh sentiment at TechOps is the lowest I've seen in a long time.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 53):
They would rebuild the engine shop here or "cut cost" and move it to Mexico(right next to that pretty new hangar)....JMO

Sadly, I think you're right. I hope I'm wrong. A nice, new GE90 capable facility would be awesome.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2012-12-07 14:17:11 and read 2594 times.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 39):
Why do you think DL chose to operate flights to those destinations out of T? I didn't think those cities say much widebody service from ATL. DFW, ORD, and LGA I can understand, possibly to compete with AA/MQ who also runs flights out of T, but why DCA and BOS?

See

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 40):
Likely because these flights see a higher concentration of local passengers, notably business travelers who tend to be on higher fares. It'd be a competitive advantage to have them be able to easily go curb-to-gate in 5 minutes or so.

I often fly up to LGA and with PreCheck know I can easily arrive at the airport 25 minutes prior to departure and not sweat making a flight up to LGA. It's a huge advantage that only AA can reasonably offer (and even there, their security queue isn't by PreCheck...)

Exactly.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-07 19:02:07 and read 2472 times.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 55):
Exactly.

What you are missing is that most Atlantans for whom this is a big deal would almost certainly fly DL anyway.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-07 22:19:31 and read 2406 times.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 54):
A nice, new GE90 capable facility would be awesome.

it would be, but that will happen......uh never

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 54):
No.

Ok good.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 54):
Pro-unioh sentiment at TechOps is the lowest I've seen in a long time.

Really? I seem to get more pro-unionish(more..."something needs to change" vs "I want a union") than I have seen for a while. Of course this is the hangar where a new hangar is being added in Mexico and 70ish guys got kicked out(while DGS has been adding hangar jobs)

Of course that is just talking to a small sample. I'm sure the back shops/engine side can't be happier.

Topic: RE: Atlanta Aviation Thread
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2012-12-07 23:42:14 and read 2391 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 57):
Really? I seem to get more pro-unionish(more..."something needs to change" vs "I want a union") than I have seen for a while. Of course this is the hangar where a new hangar is being added in Mexico and 70ish guys got kicked out(while DGS has been adding hangar jobs)

Man, you could use some cheering up. Let me help. 

.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K89UzRdeBNg&t=3m36s


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/