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Topic: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: flyjoe
Posted 2012-12-06 07:40:40 and read 11723 times.

Delta has mainline flights on the schedule starting March 2 from both CRW (DC-9) and ABE (A319). FAY also sees an upgauge from a DC-9 to an MD-88. CRW hasn't seen M/L Delta in a long time. ABE has seen M/L, but only as a response to AirTran flights, but they have since pulled out of ABE. Surprisingly nothing for MDT which is at 5x CRJ.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2012-12-06 07:48:19 and read 11646 times.

This trend started back in September on ATL flights as DL is adding a mainline back into markets that have historically had RJ-only service for at least the past 5-10 years. Typically this has been on an evening departure out of ATL, RON at the outstation, and morning departure back to ATL. This puts more capacity onto the peak flight at peak times during the day. Look for more of this to happen as the CRJ-200 fleet gets reduced going forward as some of these cities will see more 2-class RJs and potentially the return of more mainline.

Other cities in this scenario included ROA, TRI, CHA, AVL, and probably a few more I'm forgetting to mention.

MDT did get an MD-88 in recent years in response to FL.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-12-06 07:57:06 and read 11573 times.

Quoting flyjoe (Thread starter):
CRW hasn't seen M/L Delta in a long time.

CRW has never had Delta mainline. Needless to say, I'm overjoyed.

Good for ABE as well.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: FreshSide3
Posted 2012-12-06 08:07:09 and read 11506 times.

The purchase of the 717s from FL is now starting to make sense.......although I don't see them on this particular list....they are likely candidates for RJ replacements, once the get integrated into the fleet....

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: flyjoe
Posted 2012-12-06 08:18:00 and read 11445 times.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 2):
CRW has never had Delta mainline. Needless to say, I'm overjoyed.

I just looked at some old flight schedules and was surprised to see Delta's history in CRW is not that old. It looks like it only goes back to the mid-80s, initially with service to CVG.

I would expect MDT will see M/L service at some point. I start to wonder if some other cities that saw M/L in the old USAir days could see it in the future on DL (AVP, CHO).

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-12-06 08:41:38 and read 11292 times.

Quoting flyjoe (Reply 4):
would expect MDT will see M/L service at some point

Obviously not related to DL, but US has mainline into MDT. They have a similar set-up as DL are doing in these cities, flying an A319 CLT-MDT in the evening, RON, and back to CLT in the morning.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2012-12-06 09:13:05 and read 11101 times.

Would love to see some delta 717 at CLT. We have quite a few DC-9-50 and CRJ flights

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-12-06 09:21:37 and read 11048 times.

With CRJs being pbased out, what will this spell for JFK? DL is down to single or sometimes double daily flights on CRJs for a lot of routes while LGA continues to see growth. If DL can only put a single or double RJ on the routes, will these see upguages to two-class aircraft or will JFK be screwed? Yes, there are a lot of CR7s and CR9s at JFK, but DL obviously seems to favor LGA over JFK with them.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2012-12-06 09:32:43 and read 10962 times.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 7):
With CRJs being pbased out, what will this spell for JFK?

DL wants to get the 50 seaters out of LGA & JFK. These will almost all go to 2-class RJs. JFK won't be screwed.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-12-06 11:20:15 and read 10553 times.

Quoting flyjoe (Reply 4):
I just looked at some old flight schedules and was surprised to see Delta's history in CRW is not that old. It looks like it only goes back to the mid-80s, initially with service to CVG.

Yes, started with EMB-110 to CVG I believe.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: UALFAson
Posted 2012-12-06 11:33:05 and read 10467 times.

While I'm happy for the cities involved, I hope DL plans on adding staff and/or equipment to handle these upgauged flights. I recently waited a full 30 minutes for my checked bag to be delivered in FAY from a CRJ 200. The airport is so small there is no baggage office, so when a few of us went to the ticket counter to complain and ask what was going on, the excuse was that the CR2 before us arrived late due to a mechanical and they weren't used to handling 2 CRJs within an hour and the staff was overwhelmed.

Good luck with that MD-88, then.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: xjramper
Posted 2012-12-06 11:38:23 and read 10420 times.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 7):
With CRJs being pbased out, what will this spell for JFK? DL is down to single or sometimes double daily flights on CRJs for a lot of routes while LGA continues to see growth. If DL can only put a single or double RJ on the routes, will these see upguages to two-class aircraft or will JFK be screwed? Yes, there are a lot of CR7s and CR9s at JFK, but DL obviously seems to favor LGA over JFK with them.

Quite honestly, JFK will never be out of the picture for DL. There may be some cutbacks during the opening of T4 extension/T3 demolition, but once everything will be said and done in the next few years, the aviation landscape for DL will look completely different. Little to no 50 seaters, an additional (up to 70) round of CR9s, B717s in fleet, 737-900s and the completion of the new BE layflat generation.

Sure some cities may lose a JFK flight short term, but you are comparing apples to oranges when you try and compare JFK and LGA. At JFK, DL is trying to assert their international dominance and at LGA they are trying to move forward with their domestic, business traveler dominance.

You also have to remember, for the time being, JFK is so limited on ramp and gate parking that in order to achieve the amount of flights they have, they must use smaller equipment in order to fit them along the finger gates. In fact, in my years of flying DL thru JFK, I have never seen a CR9 parked anywhere at gate 23. I saw a CR7 parked at 23 up against the building on the outside of the finger gates.

It's all about the amount of available space and once the renovations are complete, you will see a lot of larger aircraft in and out of JFK.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2012-12-06 11:42:20 and read 10396 times.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 9):
Yes, started with EMB-110 to CVG I believe.

Didn't that even stick around for a long time post-dehubbing too? I seem to remember reading that it was one of the only remaining CVG exclusives up to a couple years ago (or was that Huntington?).

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2012-12-06 11:43:35 and read 10400 times.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 10):
While I'm happy for the cities involved, I hope DL plans on adding staff and/or equipment to handle these upgauged flights. I recently waited a full 30 minutes for my checked bag to be delivered in FAY from a CRJ 200.

This is often common practice at smaller outstations (mainline or DCI) if it is a turnaround flight and the inbound is delayed. Often passenger bags will not get delivered until they get the outbound flight loaded and/or off the gate.

It goes both ways, if you are the passenger on the outbound flight you would rather not miss your connection if they can get the plane out a few minutes faster when they are behind schedule.

Almost everyone of these mainline additions is a termination / last-flight of the day and a launch/flight flight of the day.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-12-06 11:49:12 and read 10359 times.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 10):
While I'm happy for the cities involved, I hope DL plans on adding staff and/or equipment to handle these upgauged flights.

Wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 12):
Didn't that even stick around for a long time post-dehubbing too? I seem to remember reading that it was one of the only remaining CVG exclusives up to a couple years ago (or was that Huntington?).

That was Huntington. They switched to DTW..which did poorly. They've since pulled out of HTS.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: LHCVG
Posted 2012-12-06 11:57:39 and read 10307 times.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 14):
That was Huntington. They switched to DTW..which did poorly. They've since pulled out of HTS.

Ok, I stand corrected! I always found it funny that stuck around so long, but I guess it was the most convenient.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: exFWAOONW
Posted 2012-12-06 19:03:52 and read 8774 times.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 9):
Yes, started with EMB-110 to CVG I believe.

The good ole "bandits". I recall some of those flights originating in IND as in IND CVG CRW as a single flight number.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 10):
...CR2 before us arrived late due to a mechanical and they weren't used to handling 2 CRJs within an hour and the staff was overwhelmed.

only two flights in an hour? That's sad. What was it two people? We used to handle two 9s on the ground at the same time with as few as four total (ramp and counter)

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Buddys747
Posted 2012-12-06 19:20:30 and read 8554 times.

MDT will have an MD-88 again this summer according to the schedule. To my surprise they continued mainline the past two summers even without FL on the route. Hopefully we will see it year round again. ABE finally gets some good news and congrats to CRW.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: quickmover
Posted 2012-12-06 19:29:59 and read 8446 times.

I wonder how much of an overhaul Southwest is paying for on the 717s before they are delivered to Delta? Cosmetic or C check?

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-12-06 19:40:04 and read 8305 times.

Quoting Buddys747 (Reply 17):

MDT will have an MD-88 again this summer according to the schedule.

I'm not sure how far out the schedule is finalized. Our D95 shows ending in June and being replaced with a CR2 and a CR7 overnight. I guess things will play out based on the availability of an airplane and crew for a mainline RON. An educated guess says they're still working on everything beyond May.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Braniff722
Posted 2012-12-06 20:11:33 and read 8017 times.

Can NOT understand why SHV is still not getting upgraded to something bigger! This city is thriving right now and by 2014, almost another 4,000 jobs coming to this area because of a German steel company locating at the Port of Shreveport/Bossier!

The airport has had increasing passenger numbers EVERY YEAR, since 2001.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-06 20:19:15 and read 7943 times.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 7):

JFK will likely see more CR7/9 while LGA gets the 717/319 influx.

Quoting quickmover (Reply 18):

my understanding is both.

M90s have been getting HMVs before coming to Delta also.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: xjramper
Posted 2012-12-06 20:25:41 and read 7895 times.

At #169 in passenger enplanements and with relatively little slack in larger equipment, SHV will continue to see no upgauge in equipment until the CR1/2s are slowly eliminated from the fleet. Once the steel plant is in place, you may start to see larger aircraft, but until then, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Also, your enplanements from 2009 to 2010 actually went down. Delta knows what they are doing and when they see potential in your market, you will see bigger and better equipment.

I'm not trying to bring you down, I wish to see every airport free of 50 seat aircraft, but living and working at two airports who saw an obliteration of air carrier service (TOL and DAB), I know the feeling all too well. Enjoy that you have a choice in air service and that it's probably not going away any time soon.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2012-12-06 20:36:01 and read 7789 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 21):

JFK will likely see more CR7/9 while LGA gets the 717/319 influx.

717s will be initially at ATL, next at DTW.

Capacity growth at LGA is going to be very disiplined. Routes that currently get 50 seaters are going to get CR7/CR9/E170/E175 equipment. Do not look for significant mainline growth at LGA, at least on routes that currently DCI.

Quoting xjramper (Reply 22):
I'm not trying to bring you down, I wish to see every airport free of 50 seat aircraft, but living and working at two airports who saw an obliteration of air carrier service (TOL and DAB), I know the feeling all too well. Enjoy that you have a choice in air service and that it's probably not going away any time soon.

Funny how everyone was complaining about the Saab about 5 years ago and now its suddenly the CRJ.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-06 20:40:55 and read 7735 times.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
717s will be initially at ATL, next at DTW.

I know.  
Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
Capacity growth at LGA is going to be very disiplined. Routes that currently get 50 seaters are going to get CR7/CR9/E170/E175 equipment. Do not look for significant mainline growth at LGA, at least on routes that currently DCI.

over time I expect LGA to see the growth over JFK.

I expect most of the new CRJ order to go west and to MSP. Some(limited) growth in ATL/DTW/NYC.



and FWIW thats pilot bases. Doesn't mean thats where all the growth will be.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: UALFAson
Posted 2012-12-06 21:39:17 and read 7552 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 13):
This is often common practice at smaller outstations (mainline or DCI) if it is a turnaround flight and the inbound is delayed. Often passenger bags will not get delivered until they get the outbound flight loaded and/or off the gate.

It goes both ways, if you are the passenger on the outbound flight you would rather not miss your connection if they can get the plane out a few minutes faster when they are behind schedule.

Almost everyone of these mainline additions is a termination / last-flight of the day and a launch/flight flight of the day.
Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 16):
only two flights in an hour? That's sad. What was it two people? We used to handle two 9s on the ground at the same time with as few as four total (ramp and counter)

Thanks for the comments. We were the only DL aircraft at the terminal, so the delayed flight before us had already turned around back to ATL, although I don't know how much sooner before we arrived. Maybe they were still doing post-departure paperwork (??) or they were just physically exhausted and needed a break? There were 2 employees standing around at the ticket counter chatting and laughing, but I don't know how many ramp agents were on duty.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: flyinryan99
Posted 2012-12-07 06:19:49 and read 5952 times.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
Quoting xjramper (Reply 22):
I'm not trying to bring you down, I wish to see every airport free of 50 seat aircraft, but living and working at two airports who saw an obliteration of air carrier service (TOL and DAB), I know the feeling all too well. Enjoy that you have a choice in air service and that it's probably not going away any time soon.

Funny how everyone was complaining about the Saab about 5 years ago and now its suddenly the CRJ.

I loved the short hop Saabs. In fact, I really miss them. TOL-MDW and TOL-DTW were great trips to fly on them.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-12-07 06:58:44 and read 5770 times.

Quoting xjramper (Reply 22):
I'm not trying to bring you down, I wish to see every airport free of 50 seat aircraft, but living and working at two airports who saw an obliteration of air carrier service (TOL and DAB)

With the exception of the occasional CR7 or CR9 rotated in, DL now runs a mainline only schedule between ATL and DAB. Not just MD-88s either, but a RON 757 has been a regular part of the schedule until the beginning of December it seems. DAB's pax traffic is continuing to rise and LFs for DL and US at DAB are also increasing. The airport is doing well.

As for the other cities, Delta has been on a trend of restoring mainline service to cities that had previously lost it, which is quite the turnaround for this time 3-4 years ago where mainline service was being terminated in many cities that you would not expect to see it disappear. As for MDT, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before DL brings in a DC-9, 717 (when they get them), or MD-88. If you see ABE getting it back, I can only guess that MDT is close by on the list.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: jamake1
Posted 2012-12-07 07:56:56 and read 5349 times.

Would love to see DL mainline return to BTV after 30-year hiatus...

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-07 08:05:27 and read 5320 times.

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 28):
Would love to see DL mainline return to BTV after 30-year hiatus...

When I worked at ORD, right after the DL/NE merger, we had a DC-9-14 that went LIT-STL-ORD-DTW-CLE-BTV-MHT-PWM-BGR.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: tan flyr
Posted 2012-12-07 08:11:02 and read 5269 times.

I would think that FWA would (or should) be a candidate for mainline to ATL with B717. FWIW, I would think that even dc-9-50 as the airport is out of town a bit..not too many homes real close by.

I would think DL could make decent money with a B717 routing that was ATL-FWA-DTW amd reverse, properly timmed. Perhaps reduce a CRJ for DTW and ease the congestion a tad.

Years ago several of the DL flights serving FWA originated from DTW anyway..or terminated in DTW after a stop in FWA to/ from either ATL or Florida points.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: yyz717
Posted 2012-12-07 09:37:41 and read 5045 times.

YYZ rejoined the ranks of DL mainline cities this Fall, for the first time in several years with a daily M88 (now A319) replacing one of the 6x daily YYZ-ATL CR9 flights. Def would like to see the D95 back in YYZ.

YYZ regularly sees DL 319/752/738 charters for sports/concerts etc, and recently the 777 Rihanna tour.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2012-12-07 10:00:18 and read 4961 times.

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 30):
I would think that FWA would (or should) be a candidate for mainline to ATL with B717. FWIW, I would think that even dc-9-50 as the airport is out of town a bit..not too many homes real close by.

As long as 9E has a maintenance base at FWA, it will see little to no mainline service because they need to ferry in 9E CR2s for MX. 9E has a deal with Ivy Tech Community College where they hire Ivy Tech's airframe & powerplant school graduates (Ivy Tech has an A&P school at Smith Field on the city's north side). This ensures a steady stream of mechanics for 9E at FWA, and I'm not sure if 9E has a similar deal at their other MX bases.

That said about 9E's presence here, I could see DTW staying with 9E CR2s and MSP upgauged to a 9E CR9, both to feed the FWA MX ops (with FWA gaining CR9 MX work in addition to CR2 work). As for ATL, it's anyone's guess. If 9E is part of the DL CR9 party and bases some of the planes in ATL again, FWA will almost certainly see 9E CR9s and not mainline. But if 9E doesn't fly CR9s from ATL, I think there is a very strong likelihood that we will see DL mainline at FWA on the 717, but only for ATL. At a minimum, FWA will see the ATL CR2s replaced with CR9s, which would probably be operated by EV if 9E doesn't get ATL CR9 flying. Regardless of operators, I don't think FWA will see the CR2 on the ATL or MSP routes in two years, period. Both routes are between 450 and 750 miles, which is the type of CR2 flying that DL wants to replace with larger planes first.

And FWA can handle mainline, as the 1994-97 terminal renovations means that FWA has four gates (Gates 5-8) that can handle up to 737/MD-80-sized aircraft, with plans to grow that to eight in the next renovation. DL briefly flew 732s into these gates (along with 727s and DC-9s into the 1981-1994 terminal), NW flew DC-9s and ARJs into them until 2003 or so, and G4 flies MD-80s into Gates 7 and 8 (handled by Eagle) all the time. At one time, when LaBov & Beyond's now-defunct Business Aviation division handled G4, they parked at Gate 2 on the lower level, so DL could even use the lower-level gates for larger planes if necessary. There's a Commute-a-Walk on the lower level (originally purchased for TZ/C8), and all gates at FWA are now shared-use.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: xjramper
Posted 2012-12-07 16:37:29 and read 4680 times.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 27):
With the exception of the occasional CR7 or CR9 rotated in, DL now runs a mainline only schedule between ATL and DAB. Not just MD-88s either, but a RON 757 has been a regular part of the schedule until the beginning of December it seems. DAB's pax traffic is continuing to rise and LFs for DL and US at DAB are also increasing. The airport is doing well.

When I was there, DL had 3 737-200s, 5 MD-80s, and during peak times (ie race week or spring break), that was shuffled to all 757s to ATL. This also included a seasonal CR7 to LGA. With that LGA exception, it was all mainline. UAx had two daily CR2/7s to IAD and ORD. FL had 6 daily (5 717s/1 73G) ATL and 2 daily BWI (all 717s). CO had a mixture of 737-500s and E45s to EWR iirc 4 daily and a seasonal to CLE.

Today there are 3 daily MD80s and 1 daily 757 (now back to all MD80s) to ATL on DL and 3 CR7s daily to CLT. Far cry from what used to be.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: tan flyr
Posted 2012-12-07 17:20:13 and read 4537 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 32):
That said about 9E's presence here, I could see DTW staying with 9E CR2s and MSP upgauged to a 9E CR9, both to feed the FWA MX ops (with FWA gaining CR9 MX work in addition to CR2 work). As for ATL, it's anyone's guess. If 9E is part of the DL CR9 party and bases some of the planes in ATL again, FWA will almost certainly see 9E CR9s and not mainline. But if 9E doesn't fly CR9s from ATL, I think there is a very strong likelihood that we will see DL mainline at FWA on the 717, but only for ATL. At a minimum, FWA will see the ATL CR2s replaced with CR9s, which would probably be operated by EV if 9E doesn't get ATL CR9 flying. Regardless of operators, I don't think FWA will see the CR2 on the ATL or MSP routes in two years, period. Both routes are between 450 and 750 miles, which is the type of CR2 flying that DL wants to replace with larger planes first.

Outstanding observation...Thanks! That cleared up the picture of how each group flows into/out of FWA.Thank you.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 32):
DL briefly flew 732s into these gates (along with 727s and DC-9s into the 1981-1994 terminal),

Yup..and even from 72 to the 81 renovation..72S's, DC9-32's were the staple of DL ops...and the charter DC-8-51's from DL and then 727,72S,737 in sked UA ops, and the UA DC8-61 Vegas charters every month.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2012-12-07 18:24:20 and read 4409 times.

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 34):
Yup..and even from 72 to the 81 renovation..72S's, DC9-32's were the staple of DL ops...and the charter DC-8-51's from DL and then 727,72S,737 in sked UA ops, and the UA DC8-61 Vegas charters every month.

And don't forget the first jet to serve FWA in 1967, the incomparable Caravelle (UA, of course). DL launched DC-9 service from FWA the same year.

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 34):
That cleared up the picture of how each group flows into/out of FWA.Thank you.

My pleasure.  

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-07 19:50:04 and read 4306 times.

Now I wonder how we'll fare, here at FSM, equipment wise, once the 50 seaters start to disappear. We've had, IIRC, DFW-FSM on EMB120s, then operations were consolidated with Fayetteville and moved to XNA. Then DL opened up again FSM-ATL, then the DL/NW merger happened, so the ATL service was dropped and we had FSM-MEM on Saabs, then RJs and now we're back to FSM-ATL3X daily on RJs. I know that DL never had mainline service in here and my guess would be that NW never had mainline service from here, either.

[Edited 2012-12-07 20:02:36]

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Kcrwflyer
Posted 2012-12-07 20:06:16 and read 4271 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 23):
Funny how everyone was complaining about the Saab about 5 years ago and now its suddenly the CRJ.

It's ridiculous....

Quoting mayor (Reply 36):
Now I wonder how we'll fare, here at FSM, equipment wise, once the 50 seaters start to disappear. We've had, IIRC, DFW-FSM on EMB120s, then operations were consolidated with Fayetteville and moved to XNA. Then DL opened up again FSM-ATL, then the DL/NW merger happened, so the ATL service was dropped and we had FSM-MEM on Saabs, then RJs and now we're back to FSM-ATL on RJs. I know that DL never had mainline service in here and my guess would be that NW never had mainline service from here, either.


I'd say 3 CR2 can be 2 CR7... If they keep as many 50 seaters as they're planning to, I don't think you'd have to worry about losing service.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: xjramper
Posted 2012-12-07 21:04:07 and read 4141 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 35):
And don't forget the first jet to serve FWA in 1967, the incomparable Caravelle (UA, of course). DL launched DC-9 service from FWA the same year.

I can't go back that far, but I distinctly remember being on a DL DC-9 that flew ATL-TOL-FWA back in the early 90s.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2012-12-08 07:16:28 and read 3885 times.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 37):
I'd say 3 CR2 can be 2 CR7

3 CR2s: 150 seats
2 CR7s: 130 seats
2 CR9s: 152 seats

2 CR9s would be a better replacement for 3 CR2s than 2 CR7s.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: Deltalaw
Posted 2012-12-08 07:19:42 and read 3882 times.

Now with DL just making a large CR9 order this week, are there any cities that will lose mainline and see an increase in frequency using the new RJ's?

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-08 08:08:52 and read 3818 times.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 39):
Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 37):I'd say 3 CR2 can be 2 CR7
3 CR2s: 150 seats
2 CR7s: 130 seats
2 CR9s: 152 seats

2 CR9s would be a better replacement for 3 CR2s than 2 CR7s.

Sorry, but as a non-rev, I don't want FEWER seats  


And I know this whole exercise is supposed to be "capacity neutral" and all that, BUT.................

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: exFWAOONW
Posted 2012-12-08 11:43:06 and read 3650 times.

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 30):
I would think DL could make decent money with a B717 routing that was ATL-FWA-DTW amd reverse, properly timmed. Perhaps reduce a CRJ for DTW and ease the congestion a tad.

You don't know what you're asking for. A shared flight from a hub with a short flight is a nightmare for the outstation. We had a DTW-FWA-MEM flight back in the day. It would be taxiing into the gate in FWA before DTW would finish their close-out of the flight and release the empty seats so we could print boarding passes for our pax. (of course this was before the PARS cutover, so today, it might not be so bad.)

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 30):
Years ago several of the DL flights serving FWA originated from DTW anyway..or terminated in DTW after a stop in FWA to/ from either ATL or Florida points.

Are you sure about that?

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 32):
And FWA can handle mainline, as the 1994-97 terminal renovations means that FWA has four gates (Gates 5-8) that can handle up to 737/MD-80-sized aircraft, with plans to grow that to eight in the next renovation. DL briefly flew 732s into these gates (along with 727s and DC-9s into the 1981-1994 terminal), NW flew DC-9s and ARJs into them until 2003 or so, and G4 flies MD-80s into Gates 7 and 8 (handled by Eagle) all the time. At one time, when LaBov & Beyond's now-defunct Business Aviation division handled G4, they parked at Gate 2 on the lower level, so DL could even use the lower-level gates for larger planes if necessary. There's a Commute-a-Walk on the lower level (originally purchased for TZ/C8), and all gates at FWA are now shared-use.

That would be a down-grade in a way. I used to park DC-10s or L1011s on gate 6 every once in a while. These were one time charters, of course. Power out, no pushback or powerback on those guys. This only happened if no-one else (DL, PI/US, or RC/NW) was scheduled to use the jetway.

Quoting xjramper (Reply 38):
I can't go back that far, but I distinctly remember being on a DL DC-9 that flew ATL-TOL-FWA back in the early 90s.

Those are the DL flights I remember. In fact, there was a pair of flights One went ATL-TOL-FWA-ATL and the other ATL-FWA-TOL-ATL, so one or the other city had a non-stop to/from ATL. They were 72S and 737 for years before they dropped mainline service in FWA.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-08 12:19:57 and read 3578 times.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 42):
You don't know what you're asking for. A shared flight from a hub with a short flight is a nightmare for the outstation. We had a DTW-FWA-MEM flight back in the day. It would be taxiing into the gate in FWA before DTW would finish their close-out of the flight and release the empty seats so we could print boarding passes for our pax. (of course this was before the PARS cutover, so today, it might not be so bad.)

Short flights aren't the only ones that suffer from that. I can remember JFK being late putting their info into a flight coming to SLC and it was 2 or 3 hours into the flight before they did.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2012-12-08 13:37:20 and read 3466 times.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 42):
Quoting tan flyr (Reply 30):
Years ago several of the DL flights serving FWA originated from DTW anyway..or terminated in DTW after a stop in FWA to/ from either ATL or Florida points.

Are you sure about that?

IIRC, DL did fly FWA-DTW from the C&S days until around deregulation, but I don't think that FWA had nonstop scheduled service to Florida until G4 launched SFB and PIE in early 2007. There was to have been a DL nonstop FWA-MCO flight operated by F8 (YV in disguise) on the ER4, but it was canceled about ten days before launch due to DL's Chapter 11 filing.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-12-08 15:07:00 and read 3340 times.

Quoting xjramper (Reply 33):

When I was there, DL had 3 737-200s, 5 MD-80s, and during peak times (ie race week or spring break), that was shuffled to all 757s to ATL. This also included a seasonal CR7 to LGA. With that LGA exception, it was all mainline. UAx had two daily CR2/7s to IAD and ORD. FL had 6 daily (5 717s/1 73G) ATL and 2 daily BWI (all 717s). CO had a mixture of 737-500s and E45s to EWR iirc 4 daily and a seasonal to CLE.

Today there are 3 daily MD80s and 1 daily 757 (now back to all MD80s) to ATL on DL and 3 CR7s daily to CLT. Far cry from what used to be.

I was there, I remember. Actually UAX left shortly after FL came in. This lasted for one year. Then DL went down to almost all RJs, US cut down to two RJs a day. While it's still a far cry from 2007, it is a huge improvement since 2009, and DL brings back the 757 in January. They will probably upgrade to all 757s in February until the summer.

[Edited 2012-12-08 15:07:54]

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: tan flyr
Posted 2012-12-08 16:36:09 and read 3190 times.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 42):
Are you sure about that?
Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 42):
Those are the DL flights I remember. In fact, there was a pair of flights One went ATL-TOL-FWA-ATL and the other ATL-FWA-TOL-ATL, so one or the other city had a non-stop to/from ATL. They were 72S and 737 for years before they dropped mainline service in FWA.

Yes sir..I remember my sister flying to FLL on a thru flight in 1976. After FWA it stopped in IND, then ATL..thru flights yes. Nonstops no. The other routing as I recall, in the mid 70's was a MIA-TPA-IND-FWA, then reverse. Generally in the winter & spring I believe. Departed Flights shows a DL 654 arriving FWA from IND which is the flight number I recall on that routing.

Yeah..poor TOL..they were tagged with FWA on a number of diffferent routings on several carriers from time to time. off and on with DL, the spectacularly failed FWA-DEN service (after the ORD pullout and pissing half the area off) and even Air Wisconsin had several ORD-TOL-FWA-ORD runs.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: xjramper
Posted 2012-12-08 17:31:06 and read 3112 times.

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 46):
Yeah..poor TOL..they were tagged with FWA on a number of diffferent routings on several carriers from time to time. off and on with DL, the spectacularly failed FWA-DEN service (after the ORD pullout and pissing half the area off) and even Air Wisconsin had several ORD-TOL-FWA-ORD runs.

I would actually like to see service return to the TOL area. Not like a "fly all the routes" approach, but since DL will be replacing a few E45 routes with the upgraded service, toss a few E45s to DTW or ATL again. Their approach at the very end was a single, poorly timed CRJ to MSP. It won't happen for a long time, if ever, but it's where I started in the airline industry with Comair. Ten daily to CVG (mixture of CRJs and FRJs) and 4 daily to ATL. Obviously the times have changed and there isn't much in the way of a huge boom, but American seems to make it work with three or four daily ERDs.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: FWAERJ
Posted 2012-12-08 18:36:44 and read 2981 times.

Quoting xjramper (Reply 47):
I would actually like to see service return to the TOL area. Not like a "fly all the routes" approach, but since DL will be replacing a few E45 routes with the upgraded service, toss a few E45s to DTW or ATL again.

TOL-DTW wouldn't work again, as it often takes just 15 more minutes to drive to DTW from downtown Toledo than it does to drive to TOL. But I could see TOL-ATL again with the right equipment. Start daily, then grow it to 2x.

Topic: RE: Delta Bringing Mainline Back To Some More Cities
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-12-09 13:31:33 and read 2583 times.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 42):
Those are the DL flights I remember. In fact, there was a pair of flights One went ATL-TOL-FWA-ATL and the other ATL-FWA-TOL-ATL, so one or the other city had a non-stop to/from ATL. They were 72S and 737 for years before they dropped mainline service in FWA.

Flight 290 operated ATL-TOL-FWA-ATL, usually departed TOL around 1150AM and that flight lasted for decades.

Flight 342 was the reverse doing ATL-FWA-TOL-ATL in the afternoon and departed TOL around 430PM. This flight was typically flown with the smaller equipment until they made everything MD88s. 290 was normally a 72S.

FWA did they have a morning mainline flight that went FWA-CVG-ATL. They actually didn't get more than one nonstop until the switch to RJs took place.

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 46):
Yeah..poor TOL..they were tagged with FWA on a number of diffferent routings on several carriers from time to time. off and on with DL, the spectacularly failed FWA-DEN service (after the ORD pullout and pissing half the area off) and even Air Wisconsin had several ORD-TOL-FWA-ORD runs.

TOL & FWA were just lined up right in the past when airlines were doing routings. From memory it was mainly only DL and UA (inherited from Air Wisky) that did it. Chicago Express did TOL-SBN on one of the flights and then Mesa via HP Express did TOL-FNT a couple times a day to tag onto the TOL-CMH service.

At one point TOL was the 2nd or 3rd large station for Air Wisconsin before they got completely integrated into the United Express system. Nonstops to ORD, FWA, CAK, FNT, CLE, AZO, SBN and eventually also PIT. Miss the days of the regional point to point networks that connected the Midwest and Northeast.

When things moved to the UAX system, the routes typically were just one way segments. So ORD-FWA-TOL and then TOL-FWA-ORD once a day except on weekends it was up to 2 in most cases. Flight would bounce between the ATP and the 146.

Quoting xjramper (Reply 47):
I would actually like to see service return to the TOL area. Not like a "fly all the routes" approach, but since DL will be replacing a few E45 routes with the upgraded service, toss a few E45s to DTW or ATL again. Their approach at the very end was a single, poorly timed CRJ to MSP. It won't happen for a long time, if ever, but it's where I started in the airline industry with Comair. Ten daily to CVG (mixture of CRJs and FRJs) and 4 daily to ATL. Obviously the times have changed and there isn't much in the way of a huge boom, but American seems to make it work with three or four daily ERDs.

I think DTW is dead unless the props make a come back in a code-share scenario with DL. Which I doubt. MSP was a waste of time and I don't see why they even bothered. ATL makes the most sense and perhaps as the airport continues to regain some momentum over the next year or two, DL will look at it again.


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