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Topic: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: dwcontroller
Posted 2012-12-10 19:30:21 and read 12524 times.

On Virgin America's web site EWR is up sale starting April 2nd. Six flights a day; three to LAX, three to SFO. Starting main cabin fares $149.00.

[Edited 2012-12-10 19:33:11]

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: N62NA
Posted 2012-12-10 19:31:00 and read 12534 times.

Nice to see an airline that isn't UA (CO) at EWR!

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-12-10 19:35:29 and read 12490 times.

All I have to say is they have been trying for a long time, it's about time.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: phxa340
Posted 2012-12-10 19:41:28 and read 12461 times.

Good luck Virgin - going to three UA hubs - your going to need it. 9x daily SFO and 7x daily LAX is going to be a lot more attractive than 3x

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-12-10 20:10:03 and read 12311 times.

Where'd they get the slots from?

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2012-12-10 20:13:09 and read 12295 times.

I am generally pretty skeptical about VX but I actually think VX will do pretty well out of EWR. If any airport ever needed fare relief it is EWR! Thanks to UA's pricing power, fares are often 2-3x higher out of EWR compared to JFK or LGA.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: dbo861
Posted 2012-12-10 20:38:02 and read 12155 times.

Are they getting more aircraft for this, or decreasing frequencies on other routes? I thought they were only getting one additional aircraft between now and 2015..and I'm sure they'll need more than one aircraft to fly 6 transcons per day.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-12-10 20:43:43 and read 12128 times.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 4):
Where'd they get the slots from?

They aren't getting airplanes so something else is going away. I wonder if that is where the slots come from. Perhaps they are closing IAD and did some sort of deal with UA? Something has to be closing.

The other interesting part is that assuming they bought these slots from somewhere, it means they must have gotten a new infusion of cash...

[Edited 2012-12-10 21:07:41]

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: KLAXAirport
Posted 2012-12-10 20:47:03 and read 12094 times.

This is great! I know its grueling if you live in Jersey to drive all the way to JFK just to fly Virgin America. This will be a great way for the NJ passengers to get a good experience. I would expect a lot of business travel with TOUGH competition. We'll see...

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-12-10 21:34:08 and read 11944 times.

Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 8):
I would expect a lot of business travel with TOUGH competition.

Most businesses in NY that are already established have their own carrier unless the carrier doesn't fly somewhere. New Yorkers take loyalty very seriously, not only airlines but look at the Yankees. I am not saying they won't get business travelers, I am just saying don't expect any amazing number.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: jetMarc
Posted 2012-12-10 21:45:22 and read 11902 times.

Getting EWR slots from American.

Examiner Article

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-10 21:55:09 and read 11837 times.

Three a day is enough to be competative no problem.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-12-10 21:55:47 and read 11838 times.

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 10):
Getting EWR slots from American.

All it says about AA is that they are getting the gates from AA.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-10 22:35:27 and read 11721 times.

Yes, here is the schedule.

EWR-LAX
VX161 0915-1215 A320
VX165 1300-1555 A320
VX169 1855-2205 A320

LAX-EWR
VX162 0935-1800 A320
VX166 1305-2129 A320
VX170 2335-0759 A320


EWR-SFO
VX183 0730-1045 A319
VX187 1030-1345 A319
VX193 1729-2055 A319

SFO-EWR
VX174 0800-1624 A319
VX178 1445-2320 A319
VX182 2130-0559 A319

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 3):
Good luck Virgin - going to three UA hubs - your going to need it. 9x daily SFO and 7x daily LAX is going to be a lot more attractive than 3x

Look at the big picture.

Combined with JFK frequencies VX will be offering 30 departures daily between NYC and California !

They are a force to be reckoned with especially considering the rather decent fares they garner in the market compared to peers.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-10 22:39:53 and read 11705 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

They are a force to be reckoned with especially considering the rather decent fares they garner in the market compared to peers.

and yet the are still burning money.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: boilerla
Posted 2012-12-10 22:58:12 and read 11628 times.

I'm not so sure that UA's service to EWR from LAX & SFO is O&D. I imagine a lot of customers are connecting to int'l itineraries. Whenever I fly into NYC, I prefer JFK P.S. service if it was pure O&D. But when you go on to someplace in Europe you don't have a choice (alas) and you are in a regular service flight to EWR.

That said I'm sure UA will protect this with low fares, some new 739s that are coming in in 2013 and even more service. Hopefully a double EQM offer or two...

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2012-12-10 23:14:44 and read 11580 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 14):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
They are a force to be reckoned with especially considering the rather decent fares they garner in the market compared to peers.
and yet the are still burning money.

The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd say the fact that they are still kicking even after losing as much as they have makes them all the more formidable.

-Dave

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2012-12-11 03:42:54 and read 11090 times.

I hope VX does well, I for one would love to see them in CLT where US had the prices through the roof

WN is probably the savior hopefully they add CLT-DEN/LAS

just a thought

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-12-11 03:49:14 and read 11057 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 1):
Nice to see an airline that isn't UA (CO) at EWR!

Especially in the Trans-Con market, in the '90s we had DL (LAX), AA (LAX), UA (SFO, LAX, SAN, SEA) and CO (SAN, SFO, SNA, SEA, LAX).

[Edited 2012-12-11 03:49:48]

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-12-11 04:27:56 and read 10861 times.

As much as I love UA/CO, I am glad to see more competition in any airline's fortress hub. It increases choice and that's not a bad thing.

3x a day will make a dent. Let's see how UA responds that'll be real interesting. I think it was in the 2000s or late 1990's another smaller airline (don't remember which one--the memory is vague) decided to enter the EWR-SFO market. CO really retaliated heavily and really crushed them. Maybe someone recalls who this competitor was.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-12-11 04:46:15 and read 10746 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 19):
I think it was in the 2000s or late 1990's another smaller airline (don't remember which one--the memory is vague) decided to enter the EWR-SFO market. CO really retaliated heavily and really crushed them. Maybe someone recalls who this competitor was.

ATA.....

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-12-11 06:41:41 and read 10047 times.

Yes, that is right. I knew it was an airline starting with "A." CO dumped all sorts of capacity and drove them out. Now we're dealing with the resources of the combined entity. Who know maybe UA won't respond that hard.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: N62NA
Posted 2012-12-11 06:48:39 and read 9957 times.

Quoting jetMarc (Reply 10):
Getting EWR slots from American.

Examiner Article

As noted in a prior post it's just a gate. AA could probably drop another gate as well and not have it impact their meager EWR operation at all.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: SurfandSnow
Posted 2012-12-11 06:58:51 and read 9872 times.

I am very happy to see VX finally adding service to EWR. They have been wanting to do so for years, but complained that they could not get commercially viable slots. Congrats to them for this long-awaited accomplishment! However, it does raise some questions:

- Gate space came from AA. However, where did the scarce EWR slots come from? The only equivalent assets that VX could trade to other airlines would be their JFK slots (I don't think the beyond-perimeter DCA slot is transferable), and I doubt VX would want to give any of those up when they finally seem to be getting good pricing power and yields on their JFK routes.

- How does VX, which has slashed near term growth by capping the fleet for several years, come up with the aircraft capacity to offer this service? In the past, they cut underperforming routes within a year. If that is the case, then ORD and Mexico should be safe, while PHL and PDX should be worried right now. They could also cut frequency across the board.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: Philly65
Posted 2012-12-11 07:29:49 and read 9715 times.

Looks like PHL is safe although they did drop one round trip on the LAX route...now at 2x's/day. I bet it will be frequency adjustments on other routes especially Mexico and/or Florida. Didn't they announce a few frequency cuts on other routes? That is probably funding the aircraft requirements for the EWR service.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-11 07:46:20 and read 9989 times.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 23):
- How does VX, which has slashed near term growth by capping the fleet for several years, come up with the aircraft capacity to offer this service? In the past, they cut underperforming routes within a year. If that is the case, then ORD and Mexico should be safe, while PHL and PDX should be worried right now. They could also cut frequency across the board.

Yes I know the EWR-SFO/LAX market is much different than PHL-SFO/LAX but if US/UA can run VX out of PHL then UA better be able to run VX out of EWR. Though I suspect VX will be able to sell a number of F seats out of EWR.

Which flts/routes is AA curtailing? Are they giving up on LAX?

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-11 08:22:34 and read 9862 times.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 5):
I am generally pretty skeptical about VX but I actually think VX will do pretty well out of EWR

I agree 100%. I am often skpetical of VX also but I really could see them do well out of EWR. Fares are often so high on these two routes. Very similar to EWR-DEN before Southwest went on the route.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: ScottB
Posted 2012-12-11 08:27:48 and read 9986 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
They aren't getting airplanes so something else is going away.

   The schedule looks like it takes the better part of four aircraft since there look to be some lengthy turns at EWR. The evening arrival at 2129 from LAX (VX166) sits on the ground until 0915 or 1300, depending on whether the red-eye turns to the 0915 or 1300 departure. The 2320 arrival from SFO is similar.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 25):
Though I suspect VX will be able to sell a number of F seats out of EWR.

I think that will be challenging given the level of loyalty among EWR-based travelers to the UA frequent flyer program.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-11 08:36:13 and read 9933 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 27):
I think that will be challenging given the level of loyalty among EWR-based travelers to the UA frequent flyer program.

True, though so many people in the NYC area pay outright for F and aren't necessarily die hard loyalists.

In the late summer/Fall I was on EWR-LAX on ~10 roundtrips and IFE options or lack thereof was evident. No wifi, many aircraft with no AC outlets, only over head monitors/no seat back TVs.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-11 08:52:23 and read 9873 times.

I wonder if we see united try to up its game and at least put PTV only aircraft on those routes. A united 757-300 is so inferior to virgin america its incredible for example but as other said lots of connections as well connecting hubs so they might not care too much. United has some 757-200s which are certainly more than adequate for the real cash paying business class customers

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: as739x
Posted 2012-12-11 08:55:21 and read 9909 times.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 23):

- How does VX, which has slashed near term growth by capping the fleet for several years, come up with the aircraft capacity to offer this service?

Been to SFO lately? They have a minimum of 3 or 4 planes always sitting around during the day. This actually should help them get aircraft up moving and making money.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: OOer
Posted 2012-12-11 08:59:50 and read 9849 times.

Quoting dwcontroller (Thread starter):
On Virgin America's web site EWR is up sale starting April 2nd. Six flights a day; three to LAX, three to SFO. Starting main cabin fares $149.00.

...and then people wonder why they have yet to post a profitable quarter. Hopefully they'll run out of money next year and we can put them out of their misery.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-11 09:27:50 and read 9759 times.

Quoting dwcontroller (Thread starter):
On Virgin America's web site EWR is up sale starting April 2nd. Six flights a day; three to LAX, three to SFO. Starting main cabin fares $149.00.

That is a little over 5 cents a mile ($0.058 for SFO) for a brand new plane with one of the best inflight experiences out there. There is no way that covers the cost especially given how long these flights are and how much time time they take up

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: jetMarc
Posted 2012-12-11 09:49:19 and read 9617 times.

Keep in mind "starting fares" usually only mean two or three seats and probably not even for all flights... its just a marketing gimic, not an entire flight with $150 tickets.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-12-11 10:08:43 and read 9588 times.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 6):
Are they getting more aircraft for this, or decreasing frequencies on other routes?
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
They aren't getting airplanes so something else is going away.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 27):
The schedule looks like it takes the better part of four aircraft since there look to be some lengthy turns at EWR. The evening arrival at 2129 from LAX (VX166) sits on the ground until 0915 or 1300, depending on whether the red-eye turns to the 0915 or 1300 departure. The 2320 arrival from SFO is similar.


It is interesting to look at a turn-schedule. The 2 "normal" (afternoon) turns at EWR are both :55 on the ground. But the other 4 turns are RONs (~10-13 hours each) and/or long ground times -- depending on which inbounds feed which outbounds.

Of course when all you fly into an e/c station are nonstops from the left coast, it is difficult to spread out the service during the day without some long layovers. That 3-hour time difference makes things tough for schedulers.

Quoting as739x (Reply 30):
Been to SFO lately? They have a minimum of 3 or 4 planes always sitting around during the day. This actually should help them get aircraft up moving and making money


They do seem to have a lot of down time don't they? I guess with their business model and current issues, a/c sitting on the ground just might be more sensible than increasing frequency/capacity on some of their shorter w/c routes (or adding more short haul cities such as PHX or SLC...)

Perhaps by tightening up the schedules system wide, they can squeeze out the a/c time needed for these new routes, but I doubt it. It seems probable that there will still need to be some route or capacity trimming needed to make this schedule work. As stated, 6 new transcon roundtrips (with some long turns) is a LOT of a/c time!

bb

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: VCy
Posted 2012-12-11 10:11:03 and read 9578 times.

Thank God for Virgin America & America has a quality carrier  

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-12-11 11:36:30 and read 9139 times.

Well this is good for me since it means FARE REDUCTIONS on these routes. It's f-ing ridic that UA is charging $697 for a one way flight to LAX from EWR over the holidays, yet it's 350 over at JFK.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 15):
That said I'm sure UA will protect this with low fares, some new 739s that are coming in in 2013 and even more service. Hopefully a double EQM offer or two...

Well be be quite frank, the 739s completely suck compared to the VX 320. Not even comparable and pax don't like the 739 compared to the 757s either.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: sqsfo
Posted 2012-12-11 12:05:13 and read 8964 times.

I have been on many UA flights and a few( 7 in total) on VX. The product offering and service onboard VX was FAR FAR FAR more superior. UA's tired and old cabins are becoming a real drag, but if the new fleets are equipped with PTV's and better AVOD systems, we could see the end of VX. If UA could reach some sort of deal with HR and labor unions, and retire the older FA's hire new ones( proficient ones, that actually give two shits about the passenger) UA can work wonders.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-12-11 18:01:23 and read 7127 times.

Great news! and this will be a huge hit..lots of Northern Jersey/NYC catchment that doesnt want JFK that can now choose something other than UA...

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: flyby519
Posted 2012-12-11 18:11:49 and read 7063 times.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 23):
Gate space came from AA. However, where did the scarce EWR slots come from? The only equivalent assets that VX could trade to other airlines would be their JFK slots (I don't think the beyond-perimeter DCA slot is transferable), and I doubt VX would want to give any of those up when they finally seem to be getting good pricing power and yields on their JFK routes.

Any updates on this?

Inquiring minds would like to know

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: PHLwok
Posted 2012-12-11 18:37:09 and read 6952 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
EWR-LAX
VX161 0915-1215 A320
VX165 1300-1555 A320
VX169 1855-2205 A320

LAX-EWR
VX162 0935-1800 A320
VX166 1305-2129 A320
VX170 2335-0759 A320

These times for the first flight each day really aren't that good. First arrival westbound doesn't even allow for a business lunch. The eastbound redeye also gets in pretty late.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-11 19:06:19 and read 6829 times.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 16):

The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd say the fact that they are still kicking even after losing as much as they have makes them all the more formidable.

All it shows is someone(or people) are stupid enough to keeping letting VX burn money.


and FWIW losing money doesn't make them more formidable. This isn't Air India....It will run out at some point.  

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-12-12 08:17:27 and read 6416 times.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 4):
Where'd they get the slots from?
Quoting jetMarc (Reply 10):
Getting EWR slots from American.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 12):
All it says about AA is that they are getting the gates from AA.
Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):
As noted in a prior post it's just a gate.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 23):
Gate space came from AA. However, where did the scarce EWR slots come from?

The slots are indeed coming from AA, as are the gates. It's mentioned in the Port Authority Press release:

Quote:
Virgin America, a low-cost carrier with limited service in the New York metropolitan area, will take over aircraft slot rights at Newark Liberty from American, whose parent company is currently reorganizing under bankruptcy protection. Virgin America will have sufficient slots to offer six daily flights to Los Angeles and San Francisco starting next year. The arrangement is in accordance with a Federal Aviation Administration mandate to increase competition at Newark Liberty.

Also:

Quote:
Under the agreement, American is relinquishing three of the six gates it holds at Newark Liberty’s Terminal A. American will reduce its costs at the airport by allowing Virgin America to take over one gate and the Port Authority to control the other two for use by various carriers as needed.
http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/press-item.cfm?headLine_id=1723

Nice deal for competition at EWR. AA relinquishes three gates, two to be common use operated by the PA, and slots to VX and in return AA gets to reduce their costs. AA has shrunk significantly at EWR over the past decade, gone are LHR, SJU, BOS, BNA, RDU, STL etc.. The two common use gates will be available for other new entrants, all they need are some slots.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-12-12 10:26:33 and read 6302 times.

Can someone clarify if the EWR slots are time-specific? Maybe this would explain the strange times and long turns of some of the VX flights...

bb

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2012-12-12 14:06:01 and read 6140 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 25):
Yes I know the EWR-SFO/LAX market is much different than PHL-SFO/LAX but if US/UA can run VX out of PHL then UA better be able to run VX out of EWR. Though I suspect VX will be able to sell a number of F seats out of EWR.


EWR
attracts a greater catchment including more high yield and more destination traffic. I wonder if this will just cannibalize VX's own PHL service, and then PHL service will be reduced to possibly just 1x daily or 2x daily SFO, like AS flying 1x daily to SEA. Since WN doesn't fly BWI-SFO nonstop, it'd be interesting if VX added 1x daily BWI-SFO as well.

[Edited 2012-12-12 14:21:52]

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: skycub
Posted 2012-12-12 15:00:45 and read 6061 times.

So... they have yet to earn a profit flying trans-cons from LAX and SFO to major east coast cities.... so what do they do? Add yet more trans-cons from LAX and SFO to yet another east coast city.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-12-12 15:05:41 and read 6036 times.

Delete Delete Delete

[Edited 2012-12-12 15:26:41]

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-12-12 16:09:26 and read 5975 times.

Quote:
Virgin America will need to dedicate four or five planes to flying the coast-to-coast route, said Cush, and has plans to add one more to its 52-aircraft fleet before April.
http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf...irgin_airlines_newark_airport.html

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-12-12 16:28:35 and read 5945 times.

What is that supposed 'airline analyst' talking about with saying United only offers 'premium' seats out of EWR?

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-12-12 23:12:11 and read 5718 times.

There is a lot of traffic on the route, but with the competition the fares may be unsustainable. UA will retaliate.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: RDH3E
Posted 2012-12-18 07:02:24 and read 5126 times.

From the OAG thread:

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
UA LAX-EWR APR 7>12 MAY 8>13 JUN 8>14 JUL 8>14 AUG 8>13
Quoting enilria (Reply 1):
UA SFO-EWR APR 8>13 MAY 8>14 JUN 8>15 JUL 8>16 AUG 8>15

Looks like UA is none to happy with VX.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-18 07:13:12 and read 5080 times.

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 50):
Looks like UA is none to happy with VX.

I think you really have to look at the overall capacity seat count. I wouldn't be surprised if UA dumps capacity on the route but if you dive into it they may have dropped 2 753 frequencies to add 4 319s (or something like that).

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-12-18 07:30:44 and read 5040 times.

12 737-800's and 2 757's on EWR-LAX

11 737-800's, 3 A320's, 1 757, and 1 A319 on EWR-SFO.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-12-18 07:33:26 and read 5027 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 51):
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 50):Looks like UA is none to happy with VX.
I think you really have to look at the overall capacity seat count. I wouldn't be surprised if UA dumps capacity on the route but if you dive into it they may have dropped 2 753 frequencies to add 4 319s (or something like that).

Well pick a date and see for yourselves. Of course a drop in capacity is NOT the case, it is a major increase overall. Just as I said earlier, UA will respond, just like when CO crushed ATA in SFO-EWR in the olden days.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-12-18 07:34:12 and read 5024 times.

UA is not stupid here. They know VX is struggling.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-12-18 07:52:32 and read 4981 times.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 52):
12 737-800's and 2 757's on EWR-LAX

11 737-800's, 3 A320's, 1 757, and 1 A319 on EWR-SFO.

This schedule will change by April. I find it hard to believe that 12 738s will be on the route. Look for more variety.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-12-18 08:20:42 and read 4924 times.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 55):
usflyguy (Reply 52):12 737-800's and 2 757's on EWR-LAX

11 737-800's, 3 A320's, 1 757, and 1 A319 on EWR-SFO.
This schedule will change by April. I find it hard to believe that 12 738s will be on the route. Look for more variety.

Completely agree. Probably placeholders.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-12-18 17:58:59 and read 4710 times.

Someone mentioned it in the OAG thread..does this rediculous response from UA warrant an investigation by the Govt? Clearly even UA knows their product sucks compared to VX so whats left to do but try and kill them with frequency. VX is still going to do very well with the EWR station despite anything UA does, and its clearly going to cost UA $$$ to be the bully.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-12-18 18:08:33 and read 4685 times.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 57):
Someone mentioned it in the OAG thread..does this rediculous response from UA warrant an investigation by the Govt? Clearly even UA knows their product sucks compared to VX so whats left to do but try and kill them with frequency. VX is still going to do very well with the EWR station despite anything UA does, and its clearly going to cost UA $$$ to be the bully.

Should VX be investigated for having fares for sale that, obviously, aren't high enough to cover their costs?

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: airliner371
Posted 2012-12-18 18:19:27 and read 4659 times.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 57):
VX is still going to do very well with the EWR station despite anything UA does, and its clearly going to cost UA $$$ to be the bully.

Its not bullying, its business. You see it all the time in this industry, UA has money to be able to do this, VX on the other hand doesn't.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 58):
Should VX be investigated for having fares for sale that, obviously, aren't high enough to cover their costs?

Very well put.

[Edited 2012-12-18 18:20:24]

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-12-18 18:45:41 and read 4602 times.

I love how people defend less competition and airlines like UA being able to roll people over the coals in markets. You guys take it happily..well not everyone has money to throw away like that so competition is good and this competition is good as is B6 new SEA-ANC

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-18 18:47:07 and read 4600 times.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 58):
Should VX be investigated for having fares for sale that, obviously, aren't high enough to cover their costs?

Why? Fare wars happen constantly. UA and US are currently going at it, offering transcon fares in some markets for as low as $160 or so round-trip. I even saw one as low as $141 r/t with plenty of availability right through the summer.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: milemaster
Posted 2012-12-18 18:52:59 and read 4584 times.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 58):
Should VX be investigated for having fares for sale that, obviously, aren't high enough to cover their costs

Investigated? By whom? The fare police?

It's not like the entire plane is priced at 149.00 a seat.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: Polot
Posted 2012-12-18 19:12:08 and read 4533 times.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 60):
I love how people defend less competition and airlines like UA being able to roll people over the coals in markets. You guys take it happily..well not everyone has money to throw away like that so competition is good and this competition is good as is B6 new SEA-ANC

You are the one who thinks UA should be investigated for adding more flights. Isn't that notion itself defending less competition? After all, if people truly like VX they will succeed against UA no matter how many flights UA adds.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 61):
Why? Fare wars happen constantly. UA and US are currently going at it, offering transcon fares in some markets for as low as $160 or so round-trip. I even saw one as low as $141 r/t with plenty of availability right through the summer.
Quoting milemaster (Reply 62):
Investigated? By whom? The fare police?

You guys are obviously missing his point. I do not believe usflyguy believes VX should be investigated by anyone. He was using that argument to point out that UA should not (and will not) be investigated for "anti-competitive" behavior.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-12-18 19:14:21 and read 4524 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 61):
Quoting milemaster (Reply 62):

It was a rhetorical question in response to the call for UA to be investigated.

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-18 19:37:04 and read 4494 times.

What a stupid thing for UA to do at a slot restricted airport.

Let VX come in and have their 3 flights a day.

They can't add anymore.

And UA will still have pricing power.

By have 15 flights a day, UA is diluting their own pricing power.

And if I had to bet, VX is willing to ride it out because they waited a really long time to get these slots.

You think they are just going to cut frequencies like in PHL? No way.

DL, AA, UA, B6 and VX compete very well at JFK.

There's room in the inn for VX at EWR

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-12-18 19:41:22 and read 4477 times.

As i stated in my response, someone else, in another thread posed the question ' does their behavior warrant an investigation?' . I simply re-quoted it in this thread, hoping for some rational responses as i dont know if its predatory as by law or not...

Topic: RE: EWR For Sale On Virgin America
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-12-18 20:09:07 and read 4432 times.

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 57):
Someone mentioned it in the OAG thread..does this rediculous response from UA warrant an investigation by the Govt?
Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 66):
As i stated in my response, someone else, in another thread posed the question ' does their behavior warrant an investigation?' . I simply re-quoted it in this thread, hoping for some rational responses as i dont know if its predatory as by law or not...
Quoting Polot (Reply 63):
You are the one who thinks UA should be investigated for adding more flights.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 59):
Its not bullying, its business. You see it all the time in this industry, UA has money to be able to do this, VX on the other hand doesn't.

I'm the person who said that in the OAG thread and I'm the OP of that thread. I've been watching the OAG changes every week since many a.netters were in diapers and that is the most dramatic frequency increase I've ever seen after another carrier entered the market. I've talked to some other "folks" in the industry today and most were in disbelief at that level of frequency increase. I think if VX wishes to pursue it, the DOT/DOJ will investigate it.

Quoting milemaster (Reply 62):

Investigated? By whom? The fare police?
It's not like the entire plane is priced at 149.00 a seat.

The DOT/DOJ has held that fares priced above variable cost are acceptable. VX's fares are easily above that level.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 65):
What a stupid thing for UA to do at a slot restricted airport.
Let VX come in and have their 3 flights a day.

I think they were warranted to add a couple of flights in each market, but what they did was way over the line. They will have to shave frequencies from other markets to do this. Given UA's childish behavior in IAH after losing the HOU CBP decision, their behavior is not unexpected, however.


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