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Topic: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: aerolover27
Posted 2012-12-11 01:47:28 and read 21897 times.

read the latest news which says etihad planning to buy a stake in kingfisher and jet airways. This development comes from the recent change in rules frm indian govt, where foreign airlines can purchase stakes upto 49% in domestic carriers. but is this really going to get back kingfisher and what would be the strategy is unknown.

Topic: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: Triple7X
Posted 2012-12-11 02:07:40 and read 21758 times.

Will Etihad saves Kingfisher from the debt hole? I certainly hope they will as I still had not have a chance to experience the 'Kingfisher Experience' before it shut down....

Topic: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-12-11 02:14:40 and read 21671 times.

Interesting to see EY are attempting to save a OW carrier (not officially a member), bought a stake in AB and signed an agreement with KL/AF/AB/GA... Is EY establishing its own alliance...?

EK413

Topic: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: LJ
Posted 2012-12-11 02:16:49 and read 21645 times.

Quoting aerolover27 (Thread starter):
read the latest news which says etihad planning to buy a stake in kingfisher and jet airways. This development comes from the recent change in rules frm indian govt, where foreign airlines can purchase stakes upto 49% in domestic carriers. but is this really going to get back kingfisher and what would be the strategy is unknown.

Are you sure? EY is reported to be intersted into buying a stake in 9W, thus buying into IT seems unlikely to me.

Topic: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: aerolover27
Posted 2012-12-11 02:26:54 and read 21545 times.

Quoting LJ (Reply 3):

link to this: http://www.mydigitalfc.com/companies...rways-set-buy-kingfisher-stake-672

Topic: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: Cricket
Posted 2012-12-11 02:44:39 and read 21396 times.

I smell a red herring and an attempt to put off the 9W stake sale, KFA's stock saw a significant upside today though...

Topic: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: CX Flyboy
Posted 2012-12-11 02:50:54 and read 21324 times.

I can't really see why anyone would want a stake in Kingfisher. What would they gain? An AOC can be bought for much less by buying a carrier with less debt. Kingfisher has few assets anyone would want. The possible only thing I can think of which could be attractive is their ability to fly internationally, having existed for long enough to gain international status from the Indian authorities.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: Triple7X
Posted 2012-12-11 03:00:01 and read 21238 times.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 6):

I agree with you. As much as I like to see Kingfisher back in its glory days, I felt that the amount of debt that Kingfisher had will certainly keep buyers/inventors away...

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: Unflug
Posted 2012-12-11 03:03:23 and read 21192 times.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 6):
An AOC can be bought for much less by buying a carrier with less debt. Kingfisher has few assets anyone would want. The possible only thing I can think of which could be attractive is their ability to fly internationally, having existed for long enough to gain international status from the Indian authorities.

If the link quoted in post #4 is correct about price for the 49% stake (30 billon rupees) and debt (2.5 billion rupees) I'd have to assume that there are assets worth more than Kingfishers debt. Do they own their fleet?

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-11 03:12:03 and read 21107 times.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 6):
I can't really see why anyone would want a stake in Kingfisher. What would they gain? An AOC can be bought for much less by buying a carrier with less debt. Kingfisher has few assets anyone would want. The possible only thing I can think of which could be attractive is their ability to fly internationally, having existed for long enough to gain international status from the Indian authorities.

According to the report mentioned in mydigitalfc.com above, the offer is about US$555 million at today's exchange rate for 48% of the shares. Correct me if I am wrong but IIRC all or nearly all KF aircraft are leased. And apart from owing money to banks KF has "trade" creditors - unpaid fuel, airport fees etc. Seems like a lot to pay for a concern that is not going anywhere (a grounded airline with few or no airliners). How much is international status worth to EY?

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: aerolover27
Posted 2012-12-11 03:16:16 and read 21065 times.

not sure if they still have their own fleet as most of the aircrafts are taken over by indian airports due to nonpayment of airport taxes/parking charges and other services.
Etihad might have a strategy here to rule the domestic market by buying stakes in jet/KF as i heard emirates were trying hard to gain more airspace in the indian territory....

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: hohd
Posted 2012-12-11 06:14:19 and read 18727 times.

This story has no legs. KFA has now denied that EY is interested. Why would EY be interested in KFA when it is going to buy 24% of Jet Airways. This is just a story by KFA to extend the Dec 31st deadline for license expiry.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-11 06:14:54 and read 18729 times.

Quoting aerolover27 (Thread starter):

read the latest news which says etihad planning to buy a stake in kingfisher and jet airways.

Planning is different than "saves Kingfisher." Please change title.

Quoting LJ (Reply 3):
Are you sure? EY is reported to be intersted into buying a stake in 9W, thus buying into IT seems unlikely to me.

EY is negotiating with both. I personally think it is a ploy to have 9W cut their price.

Quoting aerolover27 (Reply 10):
Etihad might have a strategy here to rule the domestic market by buying stakes in jet/KF as i heard emirates were trying hard to gain more airspace in the indian territory....

Its also for feed to AUH.

Quoting art (Reply 9):
Seems like a lot to pay for a concern that is not going anywhere (a grounded airline with few or no airliners). How much is international status worth to EY?

If EY buys IT, it will be throwing good money after bad.

Quoting Unflug (Reply 8):
I'd have to assume that there are assets worth more than Kingfishers debt.

   The only 'asset' is access to the Indian market. Its value?

I'm willing to bet a beer, to be collected somewhere near LAX, that IT folds. Any takers?


Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-11 06:47:14 and read 18243 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
I'm willing to bet a beer, to be collected somewhere near LAX, that IT folds. Any takers?

Sorry to disappoint you but you won't be getting a beer from me (Kingfisher or otherwise.)  

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-12-11 06:53:33 and read 18117 times.

Quoting Unflug (Reply 8):
Do they own their fleet?

As I understand it, almost their entire fleet was leased and the lessors have recovered all those planes.

Per Wikipedia, the current fleet is one A319CJ, one 727BBJ, two A320s and three ATR-72s.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: gauravpai
Posted 2012-12-11 07:03:54 and read 17949 times.

well according to sources the deal is all but confirmed and lets hope for the aviation sector IT can be revived.

here is an article link

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporat...-kingfisher-airlines-report-314578

godspeed

cheers
GAURAV PAI

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-12-11 07:13:44 and read 17778 times.

Quoting gauravpai (Reply 15):
well according to sources the deal is all but confirmed and lets hope for the aviation sector IT can be revived.

That same website is now reporting that Kingfisher have issued a statement to an Indian stock exchange (didn't say of it was the NSE or BSE) that they were only in early negotiations "with a number of airlines" and that no deal is ready.

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/corporat...ort-of-stake-sale-to-etihad-314594

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-11 07:25:09 and read 17568 times.

Because EY wants a fast track to throwing money away faster?

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: Stitch
Posted 2012-12-11 07:46:49 and read 17186 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 17):
Because EY wants a fast track to throwing money away faster?

I'd hazard a guess it would be to give them a strong(er) presence in the domestic Indian market (though either 9W or IT)?

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-12-11 08:55:10 and read 16163 times.

Either the have gotten the creditors (incl banks and lessors) to agree to a 50-75% haircut on their dues, or they have more money than brains. Or it could just be Mallya blowing smoke. I suspect the latter.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: cloudyapple
Posted 2012-12-11 22:41:02 and read 9508 times.

If $360m buys you 49% of Virgin Atlantic then why is 48% of bankrupt Kingfisher worth $555m???

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: tioloko100
Posted 2012-12-11 23:55:48 and read 9041 times.

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 20):
If $360m buys you 49% of Virgin Atlantic then why is 48% of bankrupt Kingfisher worth $555m???

I guess Kingfisher has more potentials and Etihad can see that.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: aerolover27
Posted 2012-12-12 00:46:42 and read 8711 times.

I guess its more to do with emerging into the indian market than kingfisher airlines itself. Vijay mallya, the owner who also owns a F1 team is good in talking about unexisting money and assets. I agree buying stakes in jet would do the same but etihad can never own it in total, but with kingfisher they might plan to buy more stakes later on..

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: sankaps
Posted 2012-12-12 00:55:39 and read 8659 times.

Guys -- relax, there is no deal. This is just Indian media reporting on rumour and speculation, possibly due to tactical leaks by VJM himself to buy himself more time from his creditors. The implied valuation is ludicrous especially for a bankrupt airline that has almost $2Bn in debt. And KF themselves have denied it officially, as their intention was just to start an unofficial rumour.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-12 03:00:32 and read 8168 times.

What is etihad thinking.....

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-12 06:28:54 and read 8086 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
That same website is now reporting that Kingfisher have issued a statement to an Indian stock exchange (didn't say of it was the NSE or BSE) that they were only in early negotiations "with a number of airlines" and that no deal is ready.

Mods, please change the title. This was always a rumor and a.net tradition has the title ending in a ? for a rumor.
e.g., Etihad to save Kingfisher from shutting?

Quoting sankaps (Reply 23):
The implied valuation is ludicrous especially for a bankrupt airline that has almost $2Bn in debt. And KF themselves have denied it officially, as their intention was just to start an unofficial rumour.

I see no business case for IT.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: B777LRF
Posted 2012-12-12 17:31:33 and read 7571 times.

When the depth of your pockets is governed by extracting hydrocarbons from the ground; when a large part of your traffic is to/from the sub-continent; when the Indian authorities are best persuaded to grant you access if you throw money at them; when an ailing Indian carrier is in dire need of a financial partner with deep pockets, there might very well be a business case for EY to throw money at IT. Not so much to save the airline, but to buy their way into the Indian market. I doubt EY is interested in domestic feed, they're probably after access to more gateways in India served on their own metal directly from Ab Dab.

In short, I think EY is aiming to become the second national carrier of India. The primary being EK  

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-12 18:56:33 and read 7626 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
EY is negotiating with both. I personally think it is a ploy to have 9W cut their price.

  

I concur.

That said, I doubt it would be particularly effective - 9W management isn't that stupid.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: justinlee
Posted 2012-12-12 19:14:28 and read 7555 times.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 24):
What is etihad thinking.....

Maybe a good distressed asset investment. It really depends on what price EY can get.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: YTZ
Posted 2012-12-12 19:27:45 and read 7541 times.

It's crazy. But I wonder if it could work. KF becomes EY's India regional carrier. They go all narrow body and are committed to domestic flying and feeding EY.

Long shot. But not the craziest idea. Imagine all the destinations they'd serve.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-12 22:02:04 and read 7353 times.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 27):
9W management isn't that stupid.

We'll see.  

Ok, kidding aside, I agree with you.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 29):
Long shot. But not the craziest idea. Imagine all the destinations they'd serve.

But for potentially several BILLION in liability? Even oil nations need an expected ROI.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: AirCanadaA330
Posted 2012-12-13 04:21:03 and read 6963 times.

oh god....please let it die....IT has more lives than a cat

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2012-12-19 02:22:37 and read 5975 times.

Quoting justinlee (Reply 28):

Maybe a good distressed asset investment. It really depends on what price EY can get.

With the Accumulated losses.....still makes sense to NOT invest in KF.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-23 07:44:08 and read 5144 times.

Any update on possible investment in Kingfisher or on the airline's operating status? Is Kingfisher in a position to take to the air again in January?

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: aeroblogger
Posted 2012-12-23 08:01:36 and read 5071 times.

Quoting art (Reply 33):
Is Kingfisher in a position to take to the air again in January?

not a chance.

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: Darksnowynight
Posted 2012-12-23 08:25:00 and read 4996 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
But for potentially several BILLION in liability? Even oil nations need an expected ROI.

And I think there may very well be. The question is really what kind of timeline are EY willing to live with...

Topic: RE: Etihad Saves Kingfisher From Shutting!
Username: blueflyer
Posted 2013-01-04 00:54:02 and read 3844 times.

Today's Financial Times sheds a bit of light.

Etihad was in talks with Kingfisher and Jet over an investment in one of the two carriers. When Kingfisher had its license suspended in October, Etihad decided to focus exclusively on Jet.

Besides the obvious, the other reason Jet is interested in selling a share to Etihad is to comply with a new Indian stock market regulator requirement that listed companies not have more than 75% of their shares held by a single shareholder. Currently, Jet's largest shareholder owns 80% of the shares.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/54076...be/Transport/product#axzz2GzRG9VJ5
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