Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5634024/

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: RL757PVD
Posted 2012-12-12 16:33:15 and read 9506 times.

Im hearing that B6 has/will announce BOS-PHL 5x weekly starting in May.

Im sure more details will trickle in in the next 24 hours...

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-12-12 16:35:05 and read 9510 times.

If this is true, I'm very surprised that they didn't start with Florida routes too!

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-12 16:41:28 and read 9446 times.

Quoting RL757PVD (Thread starter):
Im hearing that B6 has/will announce BOS-PHL 5x weekly starting in May.

I hope you mean 5x daily.

Not a bad schedule but to complete against US' frequency they may need to be up in the 8-10 range. 190s are good aircraft for the route.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: flyby519
Posted 2012-12-12 17:57:35 and read 9120 times.

Rumor on the line is 6x daily. Im sure if we play a game of telephone it will wind up 12x daily.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: jlbmedia
Posted 2012-12-12 18:04:21 and read 9074 times.

Quoting RL757PVD (Thread starter):
Im hearing that B6 has/will announce BOS-PHL 5x weekly starting in May.

If it truly is 5x weekly, my advise is not to bother!

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: RL757PVD
Posted 2012-12-12 18:09:23 and read 9050 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 2):
I hope you mean 5x daily.

ha yes obviously.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 2):
I hope you mean 5x daily.
Quoting jlbmedia (Reply 4):
If it truly is 5x weekly, my advise is not to bother!

Yes that was a typo.... this was coming from a business expo tonight in Boston

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: etops1
Posted 2012-12-12 18:27:40 and read 8923 times.

US will Crush them as they have all the others who tried this route and failed .. Next !

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2012-12-12 18:31:52 and read 8891 times.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 6):

Yeah B6 will get crushed with 16X US flights.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: flyby519
Posted 2012-12-12 18:38:01 and read 8851 times.

Making lots of assumptions (AA/US merge and B6 does start PHL) it could be perfect timing. The combined carrier might shift focus and leave an opening.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2012-12-12 18:39:52 and read 8842 times.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 6):

US will Crush them as they have all the others who tried this route and failed .. Next !

The previous attempts here were as follows:

American Eagle - until Oct 2004. Was 10x/day in 2000, 4x/day in 2004. All on ERJs (135/145).
Delta Connection - until July 2004. Started 6x/day in 2000, 4x/day in the end. Mix of CRJs/FRJ-328s.
AirTran - Jun 2003-Oct 2007. Mostly 3-4x/day 717.
Delta Connection (round 2) - Nov 2007-Jul 2009. 3-5x CRJs.
Southwest - Jul 2010-Feb 2012. Started 8x/737, ended 6x/737

With Eagle/Delta, the RJs on AA/DL were simply far inferior to the US product. With FL, they simply didn't have the frequency for business travelers. Southwest had the frequency, but they had US on the PHL end where they had a ton of frequent flyers, and in BOS Southwest was new.

This time, if B6 has 6x/day or so E-190, they have likely the right frequency, the lower number of seats, as well as a huge market base on the Boston end of the market - a place where US has pulled back a good bit over the past 5-6 years.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: womenbeshoppin
Posted 2012-12-12 18:48:13 and read 8789 times.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 6):
US will Crush them as they have all the others who tried this route and failed .. Next !

Totally agree, US has such a huge grip on this route, there is no room for another carrier as pointed out. I remember WN putting fares at 99 each way for quite sometime and still getting crushed. Why even try?

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: flyjoe
Posted 2012-12-12 19:21:00 and read 8645 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 9):
The previous attempts here were as follows:

American Eagle - until Oct 2004. Was 10x/day in 2000, 4x/day in 2004. All on ERJs (135/145).
Delta Connection - until July 2004. Started 6x/day in 2000, 4x/day in the end. Mix of CRJs/FRJ-328s.
AirTran - Jun 2003-Oct 2007. Mostly 3-4x/day 717.
Delta Connection (round 2) - Nov 2007-Jul 2009. 3-5x CRJs.
Southwest - Jul 2010-Feb 2012. Started 8x/737, ended 6x/737

You go back even further in the 90s and you can add the likes of Northwest Airlink, Nations Air Express, JetTrain, Delta Connection as Business Express, Midway Airlines, I think ValuJet... I think that's all.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: N757ST
Posted 2012-12-12 19:23:14 and read 8643 times.

Southwest never had a hub at either end... B6 does. This route will do very well.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: icebird757
Posted 2012-12-12 19:31:40 and read 8599 times.

I have been waiting for this announcement to come also as PHL is the largest business market out of BOS that we do not serve currently. As for us getting crushed by US, I don't believe it. They have bigger issues right now like trying to merge with AA and did they ever fix the pilot issues between US and HP pilots? I could also see PHL-LGB maybe but who knows.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2012-12-12 19:38:59 and read 8563 times.

Quoting N757ST (Reply 12):
Southwest never had a hub at either end... B6 does. This route will do very well.

BOS is not a very useful hub for PHL based-travellers. It is in the wrong direction for everywhere. B6 would do fine with the BOS folks but struggle on the PHL end.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: crownvic
Posted 2012-12-12 19:39:21 and read 8562 times.

Quoting flyjoe (Reply 11):
You go back even further in the 90s and you can add the likes of Northwest Airlink, Nations Air Express, JetTrain, Delta Connection as Business Express, Midway Airlines, I think ValuJet... I think that's all.

Hey Don't forget DLH DC-10's, AFR 707's, SWR 743's and AZA DC-10's didn't survive this route either  

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-12 19:57:31 and read 8486 times.

Like BWI and DCA, this route will be a bloodbath for B6. And please don't tell me they are making money with their 10 flights a day to DCA because the CEO says they are.

However, B6 has reached the point in BOS that the only expansion they can do is into fortress hubs.

Out of ATL, DTW, MSP, or PHL...this is the point of least resistance.

It gets harder from here

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-12-12 20:42:37 and read 8370 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 16):
Like BWI and DCA, this route will be a bloodbath for B6. And please don't tell me they are making money with their 10 flights a day to DCA because the CEO says they are.

I'm confused, do yo think DCA and BWI are doing well for B6? I think they are, otherwise they probably wouldn't have kept them for this long and, especially in DCA's case, wouldn't be expanding.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: phllax
Posted 2012-12-12 21:16:52 and read 8285 times.

It's true and loaded. Looks like it starts Thursday, May 23 with 5 flights starting at $79.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both SJU, AUS & LGB start too.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: bos2laf
Posted 2012-12-12 21:21:56 and read 8268 times.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 17):
I'm confused, do yo think DCA and BWI are doing well for B6? I think they are, otherwise they probably wouldn't have kept them for this long and, especially in DCA's case, wouldn't be expanding.

As I've said before, they're not shy about dropping unprofitable routes. JFK-PIT, JFK-RIC, ORD-LGB, pulling back BOS-OAK and SJC to seasonal, the list goes on... ONT, CMH, BNA, the IAD pullback.

If they've been flying it for over a year (allowing time to gain traction), you better believe its profitable, or they'll pull the plug.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-12-12 21:25:18 and read 8254 times.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 19):
If they've been flying it for over a year (allowing time to gain traction), you better believe its profitable, or they'll pull the plug.

That's what I thought, but jfklganyc made it sound like he didn't think it was profitable.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-13 04:15:05 and read 7885 times.

In BOS with business markets...they are very persistent.

They will run a DCA flight 5 hours late if they have to to show the business traveller they don't cancel.

As for my belief: bwi loses lots of money, dca to bos with that frequency loses money too. Bos to dfw has less exposure and likely makes money. Phl will bleed money

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-13 05:27:38 and read 7648 times.

Let the blood bath begin.

Checked a random date in June
$17 ai midweek fares, $64 weekend and during business travel times

5 flts a day
First PHL-BOS departure is at 8:45am, last is 8:25pm. I think the first flt might be a bit late for business travelers, last is good.

They will not RON an aircraft in PHL The last BOS-PHL flt leaves at 6:10pm which is early

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: jetMarc
Posted 2012-12-13 05:41:01 and read 7583 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 22):

My guess with these flight times is that they're targeting the BOS business traveller more so than the PHL business travellers...

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: phl27rphotog
Posted 2012-12-13 07:01:51 and read 7242 times.

Not a rumor anymore, offiicial announcement made this morning:

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: AirFrance744
Posted 2012-12-13 07:05:27 and read 7517 times.

From another thread:

Quoting avi8 (Thread starter):
JetBlue starting 23MAY13 will launch Boston – Philadelphia service, operating 5 daily flights on board Embraer E190 aircraft.

B62059 BOS0640 – 0809PHL E90 D
B62159 BOS0845 – 1016PHL E90 D
B62259 BOS1124 – 1250PHL E90 D
B62359 BOS1505 – 1639PHL E90 D
B62459 BOS1810 – 1949PHL E90 D

B61776 PHL0845 – 1017BOS E90 D
B62060 PHL1055 – 1227BOS E90 D
B62160 PHL1325 – 1454BOS E90 D
B62260 PHL1715 – 1855BOS E90 D
B62360 PHL2025 – 2154BOS E90 D


I just looked at this on the JetBlue site and found fares for this as low as $17 each way just about a week after they launch the route!!

[Edited 2012-12-13 07:10:07]

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: richierich
Posted 2012-12-13 07:33:39 and read 7382 times.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 7):
Yeah B6 will get crushed with 16X US flights.

Yes and no, I think. Yes, B6 will probably lose money on the route, but frankly I'd be surprised if US is making any money at 16 weekday frequencies either. Something may have to give.

There are two factors that Jetblue has in its favor that other competitors have not had: #1 B6 is the largest airline in BOS and tends to have a very strong, loyal following at that airport and #2 Jetblue is perceived as having a slightly better product than US. Granted, on a one hour flight, the tv is almost a non-factor but I think B6 will be in a good position to fill their airplanes at fares competitive with US Airways. If B6 cannot make money filling their 5 or 6 flights a day, then I'd be shocked if US is making money on three times the frequency. It will be interesting to see who blinks first.

At some point, Jetblue is going to have to enter into markets that are other airlines' hubs, especially if they are courting business travelers more and more. Atlanta and Detroit must be on the radar too. B6 will not be able to compete with US on frequency, and PHL is far more of a hub to US than BOS is to B6, so I view this as B6 "defending its turf" or providing a service its loyal BOS patrons want.

My prediction is that the frequency may ebb and flow, for both airlines, but I think B6 will be flying PHL-BOS for a quite a long time.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: globetrotter29
Posted 2012-12-13 07:44:12 and read 7449 times.

Just bought a same day roundtrip for $33.60. Gonna enjoy some leisurely plane spotting in June!

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: avi8
Posted 2012-12-13 07:44:23 and read 7441 times.

I think this is a smooth move for B6. Excellent connecting opportunities are offered and travel times are neat for buisiness travelers. I don't think people might have a problem taking a 1 hour flight in the opposite direction to make a connection.

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: richierich
Posted 2012-12-13 07:47:25 and read 7444 times.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 28):
I don't think people might have a problem taking a 1 hour flight in the opposite direction to make a connection.

Where can you go from BOS that you can't go to directly from PHL?
OK, ACK and MVY perhaps, but is that a big market from PHL?

Topic: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL in Late May
Username: avi8
Posted 2012-12-13 07:56:32 and read 7392 times.

Just because there are direct flights from PHL does not mean you wouldn't use DL and connect at ATL, or AA and connect at DFW. Maybe it's cheaper to go to TPA through BOS than it is to fly direct? Maybe I just prefer B6 over US? Tale your pick.

Quoting richierich (Reply 29):

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2012-12-13 10:34:01 and read 6812 times.

Great news and about time!

Another advantage B6 has over US is that the first check bag is still free on B6. So even if US matches B6's fares; if one's checking luggage, they'll be overall paying more on US.

I could've used this service a couple months ago when I had to do a day-trip to BOS (I flew out of BWI via FL).

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 9):
The previous attempts here were as follows:

American Eagle - until Oct 2004. Was 10x/day in 2000, 4x/day in 2004. All on ERJs (135/145).
Delta Connection - until July 2004. Started 6x/day in 2000, 4x/day in the end. Mix of CRJs/FRJ-328s.

It's worth noting that when there was no LFC competition on that route, the fares that both AA & DL charged were essentially the same high fares as US... outside of an isolated fare sale or two.

Same high fare scenario existed when OH competed w/US on that route circa 2007-2009.

IIRC, DL's history w/that route dates back to the 1972 merger w/NE; back then the equipment flown was either the DC-9 or 727.

Quoting richierich (Reply 26):
There are two factors that Jetblue has in its favor that other competitors have not had: #1 B6 is the largest airline in BOS and tends to have a very strong, loyal following at that airport and #2 Jetblue is perceived as having a slightly better product than US.

  

Quoting richierich (Reply 26):
If B6 cannot make money filling their 5 or 6 flights a day, then I'd be shocked if US is making money on three times the frequency.

Guess on my part but I'm sure a sizable percentage of US traffic on that route consists of BOS passengers making a connection at PHL so they're likely not be paying the sky-high hub fare as the local PHL-BOS passengers.

Quoting flyjoe (Reply 11):
You go back even further in the 90s and you can add the likes of Northwest Airlink

Wasn't that during the 80s when NW actually had a hub at BOS?

Quoting flyjoe (Reply 11):
Midway Airlines

That my first r/t PHL-BOS flight itinerary circa Dec. 1990.

Quoting flyjoe (Reply 11):
Delta Connection as Business Express

See above, DL's history on this route goes back even further.

Didn't the Trump Shuttle also fly the route for a brief period during the late 80s/early 90s?

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
As for my belief: bwi loses lots of money

If memory serves, B6's starting its BWI-BOS route was in direct response to WN coming to BOS. To my knowledge, that's still the only route B6 operates out of BWI. Actually, the biggest loser on that route is FL; which is now being obsorbed (though very slowly) into WN.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14):

BOS is not a very useful hub for PHL based-travellers. It is in the wrong direction for everywhere. B6 would do fine with the BOS folks but struggle on the PHL end.

If the BOS-travelling base is enough to keep this route alive w/B6, more power to them. Given the choice, I would prefer to fly B6 than US. The only time I would use US on this route would be as part of a split-itinerary (B6 one-way, US the other way) if B6's early final return time to PHL couldn't work w/my schedule and if I wasn't checking any luggage.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: BOStonsox
Posted 2012-12-13 14:25:09 and read 6075 times.

It's nice to see this monopoly finally get broken. BOS/PVD/MHT-PHL has 1270 PDEW, that's the seventh largest market from the Boston area and is larger than over a dozen markets with two carriers.

The only thing I can complain about is that on another thread someone told me that B6 will announce five new destinations in 2013. Three (CHS, ABQ, and PHL) have already been announced, and while two of them are served from BOS, it isn't even New Year's yet.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 16):
However, B6 has reached the point in BOS that the only expansion they can do is into fortress hubs.

Out of ATL, DTW, MSP, or PHL...this is the point of least resistance.

It gets harder from here

That is true, ATL (1052 PDEW) is now the largest market without B6 service to BOS, followed by MSP (577 PDEW), HOU (493 PDEW), and DTW (440 PDEW). I like to add MIA to that list just because 1) it's bigger than every other market (1651 PDEW albeit with FLL lumped in) and 2) business pax prefer MIA to FLL and there is a new intermodal center nearby that is complete except for the train station, which will be complete no matter when B6 would start service, even if they announced it tomorrow!

Of all of these cities, HOU and DTW don't have any competition, but it's hard to say which city is easier to serve than the other.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: doulasc
Posted 2012-12-13 19:07:03 and read 5504 times.

I think its great to see JetBlue coming to PHL. I would have thought FLL and MCO would be included and maybe TPA.Later maybe a flight to the west coast. Is JetBlue going to add more cities from BWI ?

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: chrisnh
Posted 2012-12-13 19:12:00 and read 5494 times.

Quoting AirFrance744 (Reply 25):
I just looked at this on the JetBlue site and found fares for this as low as $17 each way just about a week after they launch the route!!

I saw nothing even remotely that low. Must have all been scooped up...

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-13 19:16:13 and read 5472 times.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 34):
I saw nothing even remotely that low. Must have all been scooped up...

They must have. I saw them as late as noon today but it looks like the mid-week fares are up to ~$55

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2012-12-13 19:28:25 and read 5434 times.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14):
BOS is not a very useful hub for PHL based-travellers. It is in the wrong direction for everywhere. B6 would do fine with the BOS folks but struggle on the PHL end.
--

A PHL-BOS-CLT/RDU itinery would be equal or less aircraft time than connecting
in BNA or ATL on WN. And PHL-BOS-PIT would be better than connecting
via MDW. Plus for west coast, B6 will offer red eye connect returns which for some is better than a
connection in DEN and 9 hrs of day gone. B6 could more competitive on intra east connects than WN using BOS over MDW. I think it flies BOS-BUF and a PHL-BOS-BUF might do better than WN connect options.

[Edited 2012-12-13 19:49:09]

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: wnflyguy
Posted 2012-12-13 20:02:10 and read 5372 times.

WN has struggled with PHL from the get go and BOS I feel is only pulling WN traffic that used to travel from PVD and MHT.
B6 has a strong loyalty in BOS so adding PHL with a strong product will mostly likely give usairways a run for there money.
Blood bath? Yes but B6 I predict the winner 2yrs from now.
If AA and US merger goes thru this will only help B6 win the fight.
Wnfg  

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2012-12-13 20:26:40 and read 5322 times.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 36):
A PHL-BOS-CLT/RDU itinery would be equal or less aircraft time than connecting
in BNA or ATL on WN. And PHL-BOS-PIT would be better than connecting
via MDW.

That is great but no one will fly those routings. You can drive PHL-BUF in 6.5-7 hours...connecting via Boston will take:
1.5 hours PHL-BOS
1.75 hours BOS-BUF
1 hour connection
30 minute drive from origin to PHL
1.5 hours for check-in and security
15 minutes for deplaning
30 minutes drive from BUF to home/hotel
= 7 hours
RDU is similar and PIT is more laughable (5.5 hour drive vs. an 7.5 hour trip via BOS)

so unless B6 is unprofitably inexpensive most people would just drive (especially if it is more than one person) or take AMTRAK or Megabus ...

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: PHLwok
Posted 2012-12-13 22:38:13 and read 5189 times.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 37):
B6 has a strong loyalty in BOS so adding PHL with a strong product will mostly likely give usairways a run for there money.

Maybe, but mostly only on the BOS side barring a buildup in PHL by B6 and the resulting increase in frequent flyer base. They're clearly targeting the BOS pax with those times too - the first PHL-BOS is annoyingly late in the morning. Nor can a Philly-based traveler stay for late afternoon meetings or an early dinner without overnighting in Boston. One of the good things about PHL-BOS travel with the frequency from US is that you can make it a day trip, something many of my colleagues and I in both cities prefer to do.

I don't think the product here is a big differentiator either - you can't watch much TV in a 45-50 minute flight, and US' E190s, the primary aircraft on the route, aren't uncomfortable either.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 37):
Blood bath? Yes but B6 I predict the winner 2yrs from now.

Why, and how does one define "win" here? Do you expect US to drop the route?

Look, I want healthy competition on this route as much as anyone else - there's a lot of demand between these city pairs, and high fares on it only makes particularly leisure travel hard. It's a pain to drive, and while Amtrak is an option, flying is much quicker during all but the worst weather days. That said, US has run literally everyone off this route, even WN, who was supposed to be the most recent fare savior before B6. And unlike B6, WN could offer at least some connections on the PHL side. You have to remember that while there is a lot of demand between these two cities, US also has hub connecting traffic - with a wide variety of fares depending on where the traveler is coming from - to fill those 16 or so flights a day, and with potentially higher average fares to offset and/or subsidize a fare war specific to the PHL-BOS city pair.

Honestly, I think this add by B6 is much more about them filling glaring holes in their BOS network so business travelers who are frequent B6 travelers living in BOS don't *have* to use another carrier to a major market than it is about "defeating" US or serving PHL based travelers, which B6's hubs are poorly geographically positioned to do. In fact, I'll bet B6 loses a bunch of money on this in trying to be a more complete solution for their BOS travelers. If that happens, the question will be whether losing that money on this specific route makes sense to get more BOS business overall. Part of the answer will be reflected in how aggressive US is with its fare response in the longer term - there may be a point, as with WN and many others, where that cost is too much.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 37):
If AA and US merger goes thru this will only help B6 win the fight.

I don't see the connection. It's not as though they'll close one of US' heaviest traveled routes.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-12-14 00:49:18 and read 5126 times.

If the merger goes through and US becomes AA, can the northeast relationship between AA and B6 survive?

I suspect AA will have to increase the frequencies between JFK and PHL to serve intl traffic using both hubs. So is it likely AA will use B6 for domestic connections to/from intl flights at JFK in addition to the AA/US hub in PHL?

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: wnflyguy
Posted 2012-12-14 02:16:15 and read 5101 times.

"WIN" I say this only because B6 has the best product in air travel.
And once it's Internet is up and running it's rumored that it will not have any restrictions when using Google talk.
That will be huge hit with the business pax because time is money.
Plus blue rewards points are transferable to use on international code share partners another benefit WN didn't have.

As for Usairways they have done a great job turning themselves around but internally there still a mess.
The long term this could have a damaging effect on them.
Then add a possible merger with AA will only further hurt there current internal struggles which I feel will only help B6 gain market share from Usairways.
Now this will by no means kill Usairways or will we see B6 invade PHL like WN did (and failed).
But if successful I would be surprised to see B6 increase PHL BOS service and add Florida or Caribbean flights in the future.
Wnfg 

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2012-12-14 06:01:14 and read 4976 times.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 38):
1.5 hours PHL-BOS

How is the PHL-BOS flight 1.5 hours? Actually in flight time is less. Driving to BUF at where it's 7 hours isn't a fun drive for most, and too old and young people might not be able to drive that. If you are padding for delays, then pad for delays on the drive. One can get stuck on the highway.

Point is, it's better than a WN connection in MDW, equal to BNA for CLT, and equal to connection in ATL (for RDU) which FL flights showed up on search engines and now B6 will show up. Considering that WN and FL owned the connection market, or Chicago/Atlanta respectively, it's not out of the way to use BOS. I consider doing east coast- MDW-east itineries backtracking but somebody is doing it.

Amtrak isn't great between PHL and PIT - likely why WN even sells PHL-MDW-PIT but it doesn't sell PHL-MDW-BOS.

[Edited 2012-12-14 06:05:07]

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-14 06:22:16 and read 4923 times.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 42):
How is the PHL-BOS flight 1.5 hours? Actually in flight time is less.

Oh the inflight time is likely much less. They probably pad the schedule with at least 20-30 minutes to account for tarmac delays.

I know PHL-EWR and EWR-BDL are blocked at around an hour but flying time is around 25 & 40 minutes respectively

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-14 08:02:05 and read 4832 times.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 37):
B6 has a strong loyalty in BOS so adding PHL with a strong product will mostly likely give usairways a run for there money.
Blood bath? Yes but B6 I predict the winner 2yrs from now.
If AA and US merger goes thru this will only help B6 win the fight.
Wnfg

Just like B6 has done down the road at the other mega hub for US (CLT)?

How's that looking now? 2 flights a day to BOS, 3 to JFK.

Heck, US didn't even serve JFK-CLT when B6 started the route, and now they have 6 flights a day!

While I am happy to see another city announced, I think B6 should find a way to make themselves more relevant in cities that they are wasting a lot of time in: RDU, CLT, ORD, PIT, RIC, IAD, OAK, SJC, SAN, SLC, DEN, PHX...the list goes on and on

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2012-12-14 08:17:50 and read 4787 times.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 42):
How is the PHL-BOS flight 1.5 hours?

Yes, PHLBOS is blocked for 1.5 hours. For connecting flights the actual flight time is irrelevant, B6 is not going to let a pax book an illegal connection just because the flight might get in early.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 42):
Driving to BUF at where it's 7 hours isn't a fun drive for most, and too old and young people might not be able to drive that. If you are padding for delays, then pad for delays on the drive. One can get stuck on the highway.

Actually, I did pad for road congestion. BUF-PHL is only a 6.25 hour drive with no traffic. Heck, Megabus is ony 8 hours...

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 42):
Point is, it's better than a WN connection in MDW, equal to BNA for CLT, and equal to connection in ATL (for RDU) which FL flights showed up on search engines and now B6 will show up. Considering that WN and FL owned the connection market, or Chicago/Atlanta respectively, it's not out of the way to use BOS. I consider doing east coast- MDW-east itineries backtracking but somebody is doing it.

Trust me, there is no significant volume of people flying intra - Northeast via MDW. Its a red herring. WN may offer it but that does not mean people seriously consider it....

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-14 08:32:10 and read 4746 times.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 45):
Trust me, there is no significant volume of people flying intra - Northeast via MDW. Its a red herring. WN may offer it but that does not mean people seriously consider it....

Honestly though even if B6 goes after connections it likely is not going to be intra-NE destinations it's probably going to be the longer stage flts out of BOS that either don't have service from PHL or there are high fares with the existing service PHL-BOS-PDX, SJC, OAK, SMF, SLC, AUS. I am not sure if any of the PHL-BOS flts are timed to connect to these west coast flts.

PHL-BOS-BUF/SYR/ROC/PIT may be possible but you'd have to offer extremely low fares (at least $100+ less than what US offers on the nonstop) for leisure paxs to bite and business travelers won't bit at all.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: jetbluefan1
Posted 2012-12-14 08:48:33 and read 4721 times.

This route makes sense and is at the right frequency. Despite the long history of airlines dropping off and US standing as the lone market server, I think B6 will stick it out. But they will probably lose a lot of money -- much like BWI. But they likely will make more money overall since this is a key business market and will help buy corporate loyalty.

I also think B6 is looking to drive connecting traffic at BOS, despite its awkward geographic location. I think the incremental revenue that comes from connecting traffic to the West Coast (I don't forsee too many people doing PHL-BOS-South) could be what makes or breaks certain thin transcon routes (ie SJC, PDX, OAK).

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 44):
While I am happy to see another city announced, I think B6 should find a way to make themselves more relevant in cities that they are wasting a lot of time in: RDU, CLT, ORD, PIT, RIC, IAD, OAK, SJC, SAN, SLC, DEN, PHX...the list goes on and on

Agreed. B6 serves 74 destinations -- around the same amount as WN -- but has significantly lower ASM's and passenger counts. A lot of the markets B6 has struggled in (such as the ones you listed) are large cities with a lot of demand to Boston and New York City. B6 needs to expand the scope of potential cities it serves from these markets. The incremental cost of adding flights from stations that are already open is minimal -- and it brings significant efficiencies.

JetBluefan1

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: avi8
Posted 2012-12-14 09:06:48 and read 4699 times.

B6 does offer good PHL-BOS-West Coast connections. Some people might even do PHL-BOS-TPA/MCO/JAX etc. Flying in the opposite direction is really nothing if it's at a good price. 5 daily PHL flights allows for connections to several of the destinations out of BOS (with the exception of NE and Caribbean destinations)

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2012-12-17 07:54:30 and read 4215 times.

From last Friday's Philadelphia Inquirer:

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...means_cheaper_fares_in_Phila_.html

Interesting excerpt from the article (particularly the 2nd paragraph below):

"Boston is a big hub for JetBlue, so they can offer onward flights to Long Beach, or San Juan, or Santo Domingo, or anywhere they fly," said George Hobica, founder of airfarewatchdog.com.

Passengers connecting through Boston can travel on JetBlue's partner airlines, including Aer Lingus, Icelandair, Japan Airlines, Lufthansa, and Virgin Atlantic, or throughout New England on Cape Air.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: southwest737500
Posted 2012-12-17 12:01:23 and read 3985 times.

B6 really needs to bulid on what they have. I try to fly B6 alot from CLT and there connection are horrible. Its the lack of flights from CLT. Which is unfortunate

i would love VX in CLT

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: apodino
Posted 2012-12-17 13:35:30 and read 3899 times.

From an O and D standpoint, I think B6 is the one carrier other than US that can make this work. US does have an FF monopoly on the PHL end. B6 has become the dominant carrier on the BOS end...and I am sure they have built up some FF base in BOS. The problem other carriers have had on this route is threefold....limited connections at either end...lack of FF base at either end....and aside from WN/FL, lack of mainline equipment. US does offer an hourly frequency which will make it a little tough on B6. But B6 has the mainline equipment and the FF base to make this work. Connections are the question mark...because there will be limited on both ends. However, PHL does not have many foreign carriers that serve it, and for a number of routes, BOS would be a preferable connection to JFK.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-12-17 15:58:39 and read 3787 times.

Will US put mainline equipment on the flights that depart at roughly the same time as the corresponding B6 flights?

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2012-12-17 16:20:29 and read 3768 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 51):
B6 has become the dominant carrier on the BOS end...and I am sure they have built up some FF base in BOS.

I think we overestimate the loyalty of B6's frequent flyer base in BOS. TrueBlue is not a particularly well-regarded or generous program. Most BOS-based FF's that fly B6 usually have status on at least one other airline (often US or UA) due to B6's lack of destinations, especially in the midsection of the country. I don't think alot of them would switch to B6 on BOS-PHL they would just enjoy their benefits and lower fares on US.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2012-12-18 06:32:58 and read 3520 times.

Quoting apodino (Reply 51):
The problem other carriers have had on this route is threefold....limited connections at either end...lack of FF base at either end....and aside from WN/FL, lack of mainline equipment.

Actually, every LFC that flew the route had only mainline equipment.

It was only AA, DL &, way back when, NW & Business Express that utilized commuter/regional equipment and (I can not stress this enough times) when the legacies were the only ones competing on this route; the fares, as a whole, were still very high.

Quoting apodino (Reply 51):
However, PHL does not have many foreign carriers that serve it, and for a number of routes, BOS would be a preferable connection to JFK.

   That might be the one advantage B6 has over other LFCs that flew this route and; with the proper marketing, might woo some PHL international travelers that need to fly to an overseas destination not served by US.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-12-18 07:32:56 and read 3489 times.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 47):
Agreed. B6 serves 74 destinations -- around the same amount as WN

Actually, WN/FL is at about 100 now.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-18 07:55:34 and read 3471 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 54):
That might be the one advantage B6 has over other LFCs that flew this route and; with the proper marketing, might woo some PHL international travelers that need to fly to an overseas destination not served by US.

Isn't the B6 to Int'l connection in BOS rather cumbersome? Do you have to exit and re-enter security?

I think what really does hurt PHL is that if someone wants more options or doesn't want to fly US, EWR typically isn't a far drive. Yes from certain parts of the PHL area it may be a 2 hour drive but that is a 2 hr drive to EWR for a nonstop as opposed to a connection in BOS, LHR, FRA, etc.

EWR is about a 1 1/2 hour drive for me or an hour train ride. 10 out of 10 times I would choose to fly out of EWR rather than connecting in BOS. However, to each their own, I'm sure if the price is right B6 may pick up a few int'l connections

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: usflyer msp
Posted 2012-12-18 08:51:53 and read 3426 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 54):
That might be the one advantage B6 has over other LFCs that flew this route and; with the proper marketing, might woo some PHL international travelers that need to fly to an overseas destination not served by US.

I really don't see how this is such a huge advantage for B6. US has the same interline agreements B6 does at BOS...

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: ScottB
Posted 2012-12-18 09:46:59 and read 3395 times.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 53):
I think we overestimate the loyalty of B6's frequent flyer base in BOS.

I'd also argue that people underestimate frequent flyer loyalty to US in BOS as well, especially among those who fly frequently to PHL. At one time, US/US* offered well over 200 daily departures from BOS and there's a fair amount of residual loyalty from those days. Also, they continue to offer point-to-point service from BOS to several non-hub destinations in the Northeast -- BUF, ROC, SYR, PIT, MDT, & RIC -- as well as the Shuttle to LGA.

Quoting PHLwok (Reply 39):
That said, US has run literally everyone off this route, even WN, who was supposed to be the most recent fare savior before B6. And unlike B6, WN could offer at least some connections on the PHL side. You have to remember that while there is a lot of demand between these two cities, US also has hub connecting traffic - with a wide variety of fares depending on where the traveler is coming from - to fill those 16 or so flights a day, and with potentially higher average fares to offset and/or subsidize a fare war specific to the PHL-BOS city pair.

I think one of the issues WN ran into was the fact that lower fares didn't quite stimulate the market enough. They actually got up above 40% O&D market share (although at a yield disadvantage of about 25% to US), but that wasn't enough to fill the planes, even with the connections they could offer at PHL.

Topic: RE: B6 To Launch BOS-PHL In Late May
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2012-12-18 13:11:08 and read 3307 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 56):
EWR typically isn't a far drive. Yes from certain parts of the PHL area it may be a 2 hour drive but that is a 2 hr drive to EWR for a nonstop as opposed to a connection in BOS, LHR, FRA, etc.

For the last couple of years, the New Jersey Turnpike between Exits 8A (Route 32 Jamesburg-Cranbury) & 6 (Pennsylvania Turnpike Connector) has been undergoing a major reconstruction/widening project that won't be completed until sometime in 2014. If one drives there at the wrong time, it can get very congested and add to the total drive time.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that many have and will still drive up to either EWR or JFK to catch an international flight to a destination not served by US. Nearly a year ago, I utilized B6's EWR-BOS r/t route for a short weekend visit w/my mother in Massachusetts so I have O&D'd at EWR once in my life.

But B6 could, if they want to, captilize on the Turnpike-construction related delays to advertise connection opportunities at BOS; how successful they'll be with that is anyone's guess.

Also, while both BOS & PHL are prone to heavy air traffic & delays; the 3 NYC area airports (EWR/JFK/LGA) likely have greater delays (there's a reason why those airports are slot restricted) due to the sheer volume. A short flight to an alternate airport to make a trans-Atlantic connection with less of delay may be viewed as a viable alternative if pitched right.

At present, I'm not sure whether Massport has yet addressed connecting passenger traffic issues with respect to Terminals C (B6) and E (international terminal). One of the local BOS A.netters can better shed some light on this.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 57):
really don't see how this is such a huge advantage for B6. US has the same interline agreements B6 does at BOS...

They (B6) could compete on their more friendly service (many in Philly have heard of B6 over the years). Many PHL travelers view US a necessary evil so to speak.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 56):
I'm sure if the price is right B6 may pick up a few int'l connections

   You just said the key phrase right there.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 53):
I think we overestimate the loyalty of B6's frequent flyer base in BOS

Then why is B6 now BOS' largest airline operating there? They must be doing something right.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/