Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5635891/

Topic: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: KL911
Posted 2012-12-15 01:20:01 and read 13899 times.

From this mornings Financial Times:

quote:

British Airways stands to strengthen its grip on Heathrow by gaining the right to buy a large chunk of take-off and landing slots at the airport, as part of proposals Ryanair is offering European regulators to seek approval for its contentious takeover of Aer Lingus.

and

In the same regulatory process, Flybe, the smaller UK airline that has issued four profit warnings since its 2010 flotation, has offered to operate flights for three years on 20 routes where Ryanair and Aer Lingus currently both have services.

source: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/28317...80-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2F6uHVath

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: kaitak
Posted 2012-12-15 03:20:49 and read 13224 times.

And in further "we're not regular visitors to Planet Earth" news, Benjamin Netanyahu has offered to form the next Israeli government in coalition with Hamas, and EL AL will begin a three times weekly service to Tehran."

These are about as likely as the above to happen; I really don't know why BA would associate themselves with Ryanair's machinations, when they know it's a complete non-runner.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: PlymSpotter
Posted 2012-12-15 03:26:24 and read 13183 times.

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
In the same regulatory process, Flybe, the smaller UK airline that has issued four profit warnings since its 2010 flotation, has offered to operate flights for three years on 20 routes where Ryanair and Aer Lingus currently both have services.

And some people still wonder why it is that FlyBe have posted so many profit warnings... If this is true I'd be seriously looking at dumping any investment in BE ASAP - what the hell are they thinking.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
And in further "we're not regular visitors to Planet Earth" news

  


Dan  

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: KL911
Posted 2012-12-15 03:28:38 and read 13167 times.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
These are about as likely as the above to happen; I really don't know why BA would associate themselves with Ryanair's machinations, when they know it's a complete non-runner.

Because BA ( IAG ) wants those slots. They even confirm the deal:

"International Airlines Group, parent of British Airways, said: “We have signed a non-binding [memorandum of understanding] with Ryanair which is subject to EC approval ... and IAG board approval.” "

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: edina
Posted 2012-12-15 04:08:50 and read 12899 times.

Wiat for more PR from Branson.....!!

If this goes ahead then O'Leary is unlikely to want to operate VS domestic services either....remedy slots or not.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: shankly
Posted 2012-12-15 07:10:47 and read 12146 times.

Quoting edina (Reply 4):
Wiat for more PR from Branson.....!!


Ah, what a tempting prospect....a MOL v SRB fight, ideally promoted and refereed by Harry Hill

Quoting KL911 (Reply 3):
"International Airlines Group, parent of British Airways, said: “We have signed a non-binding [memorandum of understanding] with Ryanair which is subject to EC approval ... and IAG board approval.”


Note, IAG have also signed a MoU with Comac for the 919...ain't ever gonna be a 919 with the union (or indeed spanish) flag on its tail however

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: bestwestern
Posted 2012-12-15 07:25:01 and read 12058 times.

So much for Aer Lingus continuing to operate under FR ownership - Heathrow gone, and their European network given to flybe for three years.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 3):
Because BA ( IAG ) wants those slots. They even confirm the deal:

"International Airlines Group, parent of British Airways, said: “We have signed a non-binding [memorandum of understanding] with Ryanair which is subject to EC approval ... and IAG board approval.” "

Dublin to Heathrow becomes a monopoly! wonderful - just what the doctor ordered.

No, they did not confirm any deal. They have only confirmed that they will review, which is something very different. A non binding MOU is as useful as a broken light bulb.

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
has offered to operate flights for three years on 20 routes where Ryanair and Aer Lingus currently both have services.

So, after three years a monopoly appears. Thats great news!

Has offered and operating are two different things.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: KL911
Posted 2012-12-15 07:32:43 and read 11986 times.

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 6):
Dublin to Heathrow becomes a monopoly! wonderful - just what the doctor ordered.

Well, LHR is handy for connections, but for O&D you might as well fly into one of the other airports. There will be more travel time for some, sure, but from LGW to the city or LHR to the city is not such a big difference. LGW has good rail connections.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: shamrock604
Posted 2012-12-15 13:27:16 and read 9498 times.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 7):
Well, LHR is handy for connections, but for O&D you might as well fly into one of the other airports. There will be more travel time for some, sure, but from LGW to the city or LHR to the city is not such a big difference. LGW has good rail connections.

The Dublin - London market is so huge that this is incorrect.

Not everybody is going to central London.

Heathrow works for those people not only in Central London, but in West London and the surrounding counties too.

This deal is bad for Dublin, bad for Ireland, and it would seem bad for the UK (at least that portion of it who travel to Ireland)

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: tonymctigue
Posted 2012-12-15 15:46:02 and read 8126 times.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
I really don't know why BA would associate themselves with Ryanair's machinations, when they know it's a complete non-runner.

I guess that BA probably figure that LHR slots are so precious that they are just staking their claim in the (highly unlikely) chance that FR has to sell off a large portion of them. I cannot see the Irish government selling its 25% stake if it means that not only DUB but SNN and ORK are all left with a greatly diminished LHR service. I can't magine BA would be willing to operate ORK-LHR or SNN-LHR. Can you imagine the political backlash it would cause for FG/LB TDs in the respective regions?

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: shamrock604
Posted 2012-12-15 15:55:52 and read 8031 times.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 9):
I can't magine BA would be willing to operate ORK-LHR or SNN-LHR. Can you imagine the political backlash it would cause for FG/LB TDs in the respective regions?

Given the fury when Shannon lost its only European hub connection to LHR a couple of years ago (since re-instated of course), you can only imagine how this would play, not only at SNN, but even more so at Cork.

People need to wise up - this is about taking out a competitor and nothing more. There is NOTHING of any good for Ireland out of this deal.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2012-12-15 15:56:47 and read 8014 times.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 9):
I guess that BA probably figure that LHR slots are so precious that they are just staking their claim in the (highly unlikely) chance that FR has to sell off a large portion of them. I cannot see the Irish government selling its 25% stake if it means that not only DUB but SNN and ORK are all left with a greatly diminished LHR service. I can't magine BA would be willing to operate ORK-LHR or SNN-LHR. Can you imagine the political backlash it would cause for FG/LB TDs in the respective regions?

Actually, maybe BA would guarantee to serve ORK and SNN under any such deal to acquire the EI slots at LHR. If the FR/BA MoU is about satisfying the competition authorities about London-Ireland service, then I could imagine BA looking at an increased frequency on LHR-DUB (it now operates its own service after the BD merger), as well as say 3x Daily SNN and ORK service. Heck, this could be a good deal for BA even if it had to surrender some slots to allow a competitor to serve LHR-DUB and LHR-BHD.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: shamrock604
Posted 2012-12-15 16:03:49 and read 7949 times.

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 11):
Actually, maybe BA would guarantee to serve ORK and SNN under any such deal to acquire the EI slots at LHR. If the FR/BA MoU is about satisfying the competition authorities about London-Ireland service, then I could imagine BA looking at an increased frequency on LHR-DUB (it now operates its own service after the BD merger), as well as say 3x Daily SNN and ORK service. Heck, this could be a good deal for BA even if it had to surrender some slots to allow a competitor to serve LHR-DUB and LHR-BHD.

They only have to promise to operate for a certain period. After that, slots go wherever BA feel like. BA have even cut the DUB service from a planned 8 frequencies to a paltry 5. Even at the capital city, they cant offer a frequency the market wants. I cant imagine how Cork or Shannon would fare would they can use the slot on a more lucrative long haul. EI simply have a better cost base to offer what the Irish market wants - and that's value fares.

There is no way to compel any airline to operate a service in perpetuity. You can only hope that the particular airline's place in the market ensures such a thing (as EI's does - it's core is Ireland - it really could not use those slots at LHR any more profitably than it does).

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: tonymctigue
Posted 2012-12-15 16:37:12 and read 7669 times.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 10):
People need to wise up - this is about taking out a competitor and nothing more. There is NOTHING of any good for Ireland out of this deal.

That ultimate is the crux of FR's takeover attempt. They have been trying to beat EI for years and although they have gained the upper hand at time in the battle between the two, the reality is EI unlike many others who have gone face to face with FR are still there and in a healthy situation in spite of the horrific economic climate in Ireland at the moment. FR's takeover bit is merely a plan is to take EI out by buying them.

That said, given that BA have now publically announced their interest in EI's LHR slots, I think the ultimate worst fate for EI would be to get swallowed up by IAG in which case it would probably end up loosing alot of its LHR slots to BA anyway. EY so far seem to be the most suitable airline to buy up a large shareholding in EI.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: KL911
Posted 2012-12-16 03:11:34 and read 5565 times.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 10):
Given the fury when Shannon lost its only European hub connection to LHR a couple of years ago (since re-instated of course), you can only imagine how this would play, not only at SNN, but even more so at Cork.

People need to wise up - this is about taking out a competitor and nothing more. There is NOTHING of any good for Ireland out of this deal.

If there is a market for a route to be operated someone will, if there's not.... No route. That's normal.

Regarding EI maybe disappearing , what is so terribly wrong with that? Europe doesn't need 40 Airlines, Europe needs maybe maximum 8 healthy airlines, plus 2 LCC's.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2012-12-16 05:43:50 and read 5160 times.

I wonder if the OP ever realised that if FR would get a monopoly on western European air traffic (in another thread he advocated a split of Europe between FR for the West and Wizzair for the East) that the fares would not stay as cheap as he likes them to be (as he has mentioned in other threads that he likes FR because with them he can cheaply fly to places e.g. over a long weekend, something we used to take the bus for when I was in my 20s).
FR will then only reduce the fares if a competitor comes up, to fly for a while at dumping fares to crush the competition, and then raise them again as soon as the competitor goes broke.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: EI564
Posted 2012-12-16 10:09:43 and read 4596 times.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
If there is a market for a route to be operated someone will, if there's not.... No route. That's normal.

The problem with Heathrow is that there may be a profitable market for a route but there are so few slots available that other airlines may make more money from using them on other routes. So the question then is should Aer Lingus be forced to sell its slots because other airlines want to use them.

Currently DUB-LHR is profitable. 2 airlines operate on it. BA and EI. BA wants to remove its competition on the route. Its an understandable position for BA to take but if you aren't involved in BA, hard to see why anyone else would support it.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: KL911
Posted 2012-12-16 10:20:15 and read 4525 times.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 15):
Quoting EI564 (Reply 16):
So the question then is should Aer Lingus be forced to sell its slots because other airlines want to use them.

Didn't the same happen to BMI? Being bought and dismantled, just for slots?

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: shamrock604
Posted 2012-12-16 11:24:13 and read 4303 times.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 17):

BMI was a basket case that would have collapsed anyway. EI is an expanding, profitable carrier and one of the only carriers able to turn a profit on shorthaul. It also has more capacity out of Ireland than anyone else, even FR.

Apples and Oranges.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2012-12-16 11:27:04 and read 4297 times.

You didn´t get it? I know that you love FR because of the (subjective) low fares, which allow you to fly all over Europe on short notice. Do you really think those fares will stay low once FR got a monopoly on a route? And no, the profit won´t be seen by the staff.
Fares will only be lowered to dumping levels to prevent a competitor from getting a foothold.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: EI564
Posted 2012-12-16 14:24:27 and read 3848 times.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 17):
Didn't the same happen to BMI? Being bought and dismantled, just for slots?

It could happen. But chances are that the EU wouldn't be so willing to approve of this takeover. shamrock604's post gives an idea why.

Topic: RE: BA In Ryanair Deal For Heathrow Slots
Username: eicvd
Posted 2012-12-17 11:07:55 and read 3022 times.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
Regarding EI maybe disappearing , what is so terribly wrong with that?

Maybe a large % of the Irish population & regular visitors here would rather not like to have FR as their number 1 option of flying for business or leisure to & from Ireland?. I doubt the Irish public would want to see family & friends unemployed either, unemployment is bad enough at the moment!

Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
Europe doesn't need 40 Airlines, Europe needs maybe maximum 8 healthy airlines, plus 2 LCC's.

EI is a healthy airline by the way, it can easily hold its own as 1 of those 8 airlines.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/