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Topic: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2012-12-18 12:51:00 and read 4417 times.

Is there any hope for other alliances in South America or will the others focus instead on markets such as China where 1W is weaker?

To give an example, AA sends 5 daily 777s to EZE, while DL sends one daily 767; if AR cuts SYD-EZE 1W will have a monopoly on South America-Oceania with SYD-SCL, SCL-AKL-SYD, and SCL-IPC-PPT, etc...

Topic: RE: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: gsoflyer
Posted 2012-12-18 13:18:36 and read 4293 times.

United sends two daily to Lima and Bogota while the TACA group has even more.

Topic: RE: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2012-12-18 13:23:41 and read 4263 times.

UA also sends flights to GRU, EZE and GIG in addition to Quito, Caracas and Bogota. TACA as mentioned has a lot of additional service as well.

One World has an advantage but don't expect the other alliances to simply write off a continent.

Topic: RE: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2012-12-18 13:29:26 and read 4235 times.

Isn't GRU 7x daily (from all hubs) on AA with larger aircraft if one counts the 77Ws moving there? Add in JJ's capacity to MIA and JFK...

I'm not saying that they'll write it off, just asking whether the other alliances will decide that it's not worth trying to compete with 1W there if it leads to losses.

Topic: RE: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2012-12-18 14:48:25 and read 4014 times.

The other alliances will compete in the largest markets. As for the smaller ones, airlines such as DL and UA will look at secondary cities and the likelihood they can turn a profit and go there if warranted.

For UA, I expect to see them ramp up South American flying once the economies in North America start to get back to a semblance of what they were before 9/11. They will have the efficient aircraft to serve deep South America and they have the U.S. domestic route structure to feed this traffic via IAH and/or EWR and/or either SFO or LAX.

DL will go via ATL and JFK as they do now. SLC doesn't have the traffic to support South American flying.

Topic: RE: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: RCS763AV
Posted 2012-12-18 15:09:44 and read 3937 times.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):
Is there any hope for other alliances in South America or will the others focus instead on markets such as China where 1W is weaker?

AviancaTaca, the second largest airline group in the region is a member of Star Alliance. The group has hubs in SAL, SJO, BOG and LIM plus an operation in Ecuador, operates over 100 destinations and over 130 aircraft. They are the leading group in Central America and in Colombia, the continent's second largest aviation market.

Air Canada has operations in Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Chile, Argentina and Brazil. The Lufthansa group flies to Venezuela, Colombia, Argentina and Brazil. TAP is the market leader in the huge Brazil-Europe scene and has a presence in Venezuela, not to mention is about to be bought by Synergy Aerospace, owners of 66% of AviancaTaca and 100% of Avianca Brasil.

So I hardly think 1W "took over" the continent. Yes, they are the largest players, but Star has a good presence too. Skyteam was sadly left with a bit of leftovers, but they have a very large transatlantic presence between UX (CCS, LIM, EZE, FOR, SSA), AF (BOG, CCS, LIM, SCL, EZE, GRU, GIG), AZ (CCS, GRU, GIG, FOR, EZE) and KL (UIO, GYE, LIM, EZE, GRU, GIG).

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Thread starter):
To give an example, AA sends 5 daily 777s to EZE, while DL sends one daily 767; if AR cuts SYD-EZE 1W will have a monopoly on South America-Oceania with SYD-SCL, SCL-AKL-SYD, and SCL-IPC-PPT, etc...

Take BOG-USA as an example.

MIA/FLL have 4 daily 1W flights, 4 daily Star Alliance, 2 daily LCC.
NYC has 3 daily Star flights, 1 daily Skyteam.
IAH is 2 daily Star.
MCO 1 daily Star, 1 daily LCC.
IAD 1 daily Star.
ATL up to 2 daily Skyteam.
DFW is coming next year I imagine 1 daily Oneworld.

BOG is star territory, with some competition from 1W and Skyteam has a presence.

Quoting gsoflyer (Reply 1):
TACA group

AviancaTaca, soon to be just Avianca.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 2):
TACA as mentioned has a lot of additional service as well.

On top of TACA's very large operation, Avianca also has 12 daily flights to the US from 5 colombian cities.

Topic: RE: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: VV701
Posted 2012-12-18 16:06:02 and read 3741 times.

The share of seats offered from Europe to South America looked very different.

Back in 2010 at the time of AA/BA/IB ATI, BA published the following data for market share of seats offered between Europe and Latin America:

AF/KL 21 per cent
IAG 19 per cent
TAM 12 per cent
TAP 10 per cent
Lufthansa 8 per cent

See Slide 53 here:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_.../01_ID_2010_Full_presentations.pdf

Topic: RE: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2012-12-18 17:17:44 and read 3556 times.

Hmm interesting stats. I think Europe-Latin America will continue to become less 1W-dominated if IB withdraws at its current rate.

Topic: RE: Has OneWorld Won South America?
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-12-18 20:11:48 and read 3345 times.

As a Star slave, and a home in NYC, SP and Rio, the loss of TAM for me is crushing!

I still have great SA)">UA options (especially if the ever add EWR to GIG) and LX, TP, LH to Europe and Singapore to Asia etc, but I can't wait for Avianca Brazil to grow FAST. I was at CGH last Friday and while I was on TAM, i will try Avianca on the shuttle - but I noticed Avianca has no Star logo at their ticket counters.

But I agree, with LATAM and SA)">AA and BA and more they sure do have a fortress in SA. I fear I may have to switch. Which wont make me happy, United treats me very well, and with each SA)">UA flight I can feel things starting to improve.


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