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Topic: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2012-12-12 10:23:34 and read 17900 times.

http://news.yahoo.com/american-airli...olls-fare-structure-165124789.html

The new fare categories:

— "Choice" tickets will be similar to the current basic economy fare. If a passenger wants to check a bag or change the reservation later, he or she will be charged extra.

— "Choice Essential" fares will cost an extra $68 per round trip and include one checked bag, no additional fee for changing the itinerary later, and early boarding.

— "Choice Plus", an extra $88 per round trip, will include a checked bag, no change fees and early boarding plus bonus miles for frequent-flier purposes, standby privileges, a drink for no additional charges and other perks.

I just ran a check on "Choice", STL-RIC-STL in March, using an ad banner and came up with the LOWEST fare of $832, each way. Hope that's an IT bug or AA is pricing themselves into oblivion.

[Edited 2012-12-12 10:29:17]

5 minutes later through aa.com and it's down to a reasonable $396 r/t. Gotta love it.


[Edited 2012-12-12 10:34:47]

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: SPREE34
Posted 2012-12-12 10:26:35 and read 17886 times.

I guess the PAX will all wear a colored band on their wrists, so the FAs will know what level of abuse,...er,...I mean service to provide.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: rangercarp
Posted 2012-12-12 10:28:29 and read 17841 times.

Looks a lot like the Frontier fare structure...

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-12 10:32:52 and read 17774 times.

I'd have to read all of the specifics. They are taking a gamble for someone to pay less upfront for the possibility of changing their flight rather than someone paying more only if they indeed change.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-12 12:18:48 and read 17035 times.

This is very bizarre, and I don't like it at all. First, I haven't found a way to sort by price (perhaps there's a way). You have to click on the tabs at the bottom of the page to see which page has the lowest-priced fares, and do it twice, for both the outbound and return flights, rather than the simple sort aa.com used to have. Then you get the choice of adding the new bundled features when you select your return flight.

I'm guessing this is one of the ways AA is attempting to drive more traffic to aa.com rather than to third-party websites for booking. But a trial run comparing aa.com and Orbitz for a basic unbundled fare, led to a far easier experience finding the lowest-priced fares at the most convenient times on Orbitz, driving me away from the aa.com site.

At least it's better than the disaster delta.com was when they updated their website about a month ago. That was riddled with formatting and other problems.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-12 12:27:23 and read 16964 times.

Quoting rangercarp (Reply 2):
Looks a lot like the Frontier fare structure...

Yup, and the Choice Essential to Choice Plus jump looks a lot like the jump from Anytime to Business Select on WN. As a business traveler who often needs a changeable ticket, I have found both the F9 fare system and the WN fare system work really well, much better than the 100 percent or more markup that is often found on the legacies for a changeable ticket. At that point and given that I change maybe 20-30 percent of my changeable tickets, I may as well but the non-changeable ticket and pay the change fee occasionally. WN and F9 come out ahead with me because it's very rare that I'll buy a refundable ticket on a legacy but I almost always buy them on WN.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-12-12 12:27:53 and read 16961 times.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 3):

I'd have to read all of the specifics. They are taking a gamble for someone to pay less upfront for the possibility of changing their flight rather than someone paying more only if they indeed change.

They already charge more for these type of fares and if you need to change, you pay for it or lose the ticket.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
This is very bizarre, and I don't like it at all. First, I haven't found a way to sort by price (perhaps there's a way). You have to click on the tabs at the bottom of the page to see which page has the lowest-priced fares, and do it twice, for both the outbound and return flights, rather than the simple sort aa.com used to have. Then you get the choice of adding the new bundled features when you select your return flight.

Really? The option to find the lowest fare is right on the search page. You just have to have the indicator chosen for "lowest fare" option, and the lowest fare will be shown. Not sure what you are doing but it seems easy to me.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: aa77w
Posted 2012-12-12 12:31:43 and read 16919 times.

I think this is a smart move on AA's part. It provides for a tailored approach for customers to choose which services are valuable/important without feeling nickeled and dimed. Especially valuable and exciting to me is the ability to choose a fare that allows for a checked bag (or extra baggage for elites) and the flexibility to change my ticket without getting slapped with that $150 change fee. I realize the change option has been around for a while, but to not have to buy a "flexibility package" or a fare that has been seemingly much, much more expensive to get that flexibility makes for a much more pleasant booking experience for me. Yay for choices!

I do wonder about F/A's keeping track of this information and if travel agents will be able to book these fares through a GDS?

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-12 12:39:07 and read 16835 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 7):
Really? The option to find the lowest fare is right on the search page. You just have to have the indicator chosen for "lowest fare" option, and the lowest fare will be shown. Not sure what you are doing but it seems easy to me.

Pull up PDX-MIA outbound Jan 9, returning Jan 16. The lowest fare, $416, is only viewable if you select it from the page 2 tab on the bottom of the page, and then it requires scrolling half way down the page to find it. Have you seen something easier?

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-12-12 12:54:03 and read 16656 times.

I'm not seeing anything that states the lowest fare structure still doesn't allow you to pre-reserve seats. Is that correct?

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: usairways85
Posted 2012-12-12 12:57:48 and read 16634 times.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 7):
They already charge more for these type of fares and if you need to change, you pay for it or lose the ticket.

Well I'm really confused. I'm a UA flier so I'm not sure how AA has done it but yes they have those types of refundable fares but they are typically at least double the lowest fare, not $88 more.

Are the Choice Essential & Plus $68/88 more than the Choice ticket respectively? So if I have a $600 Choice ticket get Choice plus for $688 and end up changing both RT legs as part of the bundled ticket. Where as if I purchase the $600 ticket previously I would have paid $150 each leg to change it, total of $900.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: ScottB
Posted 2012-12-12 12:58:32 and read 16614 times.

Quoting aa77w (Reply 8):
I do wonder about F/A's keeping track of this information

I doubt it's all that complicated; the kiosk/counter agent/online check-in/mobile app could all produce a document (or screen for the mobile app) with a bar code that the F/A's could scan to validate -- or they could look at the boarding pass for an indication of "Choice Plus." WN obviously has it figured out with Business Select which includes an adult beverage, too. DL does something similar for elites who don't get upgraded before check-in which is a nice touch.

I'd say that if you're going to spring for the "Choice Essential" fare, you might as well spend the extra $20 for "Choice Plus" for the extra miles, free same-day change, and alcohol.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-12 13:03:50 and read 16563 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
I doubt it's all that complicated; the kiosk/counter agent/online check-in/mobile app could all produce a document (or screen for the mobile app) with a bar code that the F/A's could scan to validate -- or they could look at the boarding pass for an indication of "Choice Plus."

There are two ways to do it. WN does one and F9 does the other. WN kiosks spit out a second piece of paper that is a "drink ticket." The boarding pass could be used for this, but WN collects boarding passes upon boarding since they don't have a seat assignment on them.

F9 puts it on manifest, and F9 f/as approach each passenger and ask if he would like his free beverage - even at 7:900 in the morning in my experience. I don't know that one system is necessarily better than the other.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: DLT123
Posted 2012-12-12 15:41:04 and read 15990 times.

I can see where this will confuse travelers who travel less in terms of boarding - "But I'm group 1 - I should board before First Class".

That having been said, I tihnk it's a smart move on AA's part to figure out a bundled pricing scheme.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: braniffmsy
Posted 2012-12-12 15:58:00 and read 15738 times.

Yes, Travel Agencies can book these fares -- and it's EASY!
So, I'm loving this!
I think it's quiet the smart move on American's part. Clever.
This is a great value for the traveler.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-12 16:06:11 and read 15546 times.

For the cost of designing this pricing structure, maintaining it, changing the website, changing the reservation/ticketing systems, educating the employees ....they would have been better off with 2 categories - Business & Other, and increasing every fare by $10-20

Would have saved millions initially, and ongoing costs would be minimal. No pax would be confused.

...but this is true for most airlines' over-complex pricing structures, and one of the primary reasons, IMO, why most of them have lost money and ended up in bankruptcy.

Jimbo

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: tugger
Posted 2012-12-12 16:12:58 and read 15426 times.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
I'd say that if you're going to spring for the "Choice Essential" fare, you might as well spend the extra $20 for "Choice Plus" for the extra miles, free same-day change, and alcohol.

I am sure they are counting on it and why they priced it so close. Once someone has made the decision to go the extra $68 why not go an extra $20 for "all the other stuff"?

Quoting bond007 (Reply 17):
For the cost of designing this pricing structure, maintaining it, changing the website, changing the reservation/ticketing systems, educating the employees ....they would have been better off with 2 categories - Business & Other, and increasing every fare by $10-20

Would have saved millions initially, and ongoing costs would be minimal. No pax would be confused.

...but this is true for most airlines' over-complex pricing structures, and one of the primary reasons, IMO, why most of them have lost money and ended up in bankruptcy.

The problem is they couldn't advertize the lowest possible fare and be first (if they ever are really) on the travel websites. This is an elected choice by the traveler themselves, it is easier to understand and advertize then the myriad fees and pricing options etc. that were in place before. I wish them god luck, an extra $68 from a bunch of otherwise econo-traveling business people would be a goldmine (I still don't think the "real cheap" traveler is going to spend it).

If they are really smart they will offer a second free drink (two) at the second time you book a ticket with the Plus option. A simple way to get someone to try it and perhaps get hooked.

Tugg

[Edited 2012-12-12 16:16:55]

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-12 16:51:22 and read 14857 times.

Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
I wish them god luck, an extra $68 from a bunch of otherwise econo-traveling business people would be a goldmine (I still don't think the "real cheap" traveler is going to spend it).

But it probably cost them $70 per pax to come up with this structure!

..also, the business expense account is not what is used to be. Almost every company, and I speak from experience as somebody who charges on average 2 flights/week to different clients, will go over the prices selected in detail. For example, my last client did not pay for $45/flight more room on jetBlue. Current client does not pay business select on Southwest unless only fare available .... and these are big clients.

Fully refundable fares are fine, but in my experience it's the minority of business pax that have such a business where it's cost-effective to buy these regularly. If I change my flight less than once every 3 or 4 tickets, it's cheaper for me not to buy refundable.

I'm all for choices, but few folks realize how much overhead this is to the company ....it's absolutely huge.


Jimbo

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: delimit
Posted 2012-12-12 16:57:47 and read 14760 times.

One has to assume they've run the numbers when coming up with these and aren't going to take a bath. I mean, they have petabytes of information on traveller behavior at their fingertips. Assuming they haven't analyzed it seems foolish.

I like it. A clearer fare structure with defined benefits works for me. I also think it will resonate with consumers.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: tugger
Posted 2012-12-12 16:58:44 and read 14734 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 21):
But it probably cost them $70 per pax to come up with this structure!

Well they on average carry about 250,000 passengers a day. So lets say 10% of them opt for this, that means an extra $1.8 million per day. How much do you think this cost to implement?

Tugg

[Edited 2012-12-12 17:05:00]

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: commavia
Posted 2012-12-12 17:02:04 and read 14673 times.

I generally like the change. It's more transparent, provides more flexibility and options when booking, and looks clean.

They absolutely do have to restore the functionality to sort by different attributes, though - departure, arrival, fare, travel time, etc. Losing that is horrible. I'm also going to have to get used to the automatic round-trip pricing being displayed by default.

But overall, once they get the bugs worked out and address some of the issues already being discussed here and elsewhere, I think this will end up being a positive change.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: nwcoflyer
Posted 2012-12-12 17:05:50 and read 14924 times.

Quoting commavia (Reply 24):
I generally like the change. It's more transparent, provides more flexibility and options when booking, and looks clean.

They absolutely do have to restore the functionality to sort by different attributes, though - departure, arrival, fare, travel time, etc. Losing that is horrible. I'm also going to have to get used to the automatic round-trip pricing being displayed by default.

But overall, once they get the bugs worked out and address some of the issues already being discussed here and elsewhere, I think this will end up being a positive change.

I completely agree. This allows customers who "hate getting nickled and dimed" to put their money where there mouth is. Want the bag, drink and free standy again? No change fee? Pay the extra 88. Otherwise pay the low base fare and keep quiet when you pay $25 for your bag, then a $75 dollar move up fee and $7 for your beer on the plane. I hope it works out well for AA and maybe the rest of the industry can follow suit.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-12 17:10:13 and read 14845 times.

Quoting delimit (Reply 22):
I like it. A clearer fare structure with defined benefits works for me. I also think it will resonate with consumers.

Time will tell on this. One of the things eliminated in the new fare structure is the free same-day standby for some of the higher fare classes. Buying stand-by privileges as an extra may not always be reimbursed by clients when billing the cost of airfare to another party (like for a consultant). Those depending upon the ability to standby for earlier or later flights may move considerable high dollar fares to other carriers if passengers are stuck with the cost themselves.

I asked the AA P.R. rep in another forum what was accomplished by implementing this entirely new way of displaying fares and options that wouldn't have been feasible by simply adding buttons to click on to purchase the new choice options to the old website format which was much more user-friendly. I still don't understand why to find the lowest fare on the dummy booking I did earlier required going to the second page of results to find the cheapest outbound, then the third page of results to get the lowest cost return flights. We'll see what the answer is, if any.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Flighty
Posted 2012-12-12 17:17:39 and read 14848 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 26):
Buying stand-by privileges as an extra may not always be reimbursed by clients

It is part of the airfare. They may be smoothing the dollars into the fare in hopes to avoid this issue.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-12 17:19:05 and read 14828 times.

Quoting delimit (Reply 22):
One has to assume they've run the numbers when coming up with these and aren't going to take a bath. I mean, they have petabytes of information on traveller behavior at their fingertips. Assuming they haven't analyzed it seems foolish.

I totally agree, part of the reason I say it cost so much is actually because they did take a lot of time and effort to do the analysis....I'm sure they did exactly the same detailed analysis for all of their other major business decisions over the past 5 years ... in which I believe they lost many millions every year  


Jimbo

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-12 17:38:55 and read 14525 times.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
It is part of the airfare. They may be smoothing the dollars into the fare in hopes to avoid this issue.

It was being talked about on another forum that this might be a problem when the client reviews airfare submissions when the policy is lowest-price.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: lax777lr
Posted 2012-12-12 18:17:32 and read 14075 times.

Interesting - Choice Plus is very close to AAdvantage Gold benefits on a segment basis plus a cocktail.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-12 18:24:31 and read 13961 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 21):
But it probably cost them $70 per pax to come up with this structure!

I doubt it. As others have pointed out, it's pretty much what WN and F9 do, and not terribly different from AC.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 17):
but this is true for most airlines' over-complex pricing structures, and one of the primary reasons, IMO, why most of them have lost money and ended up in bankruptcy.

How many coach fare buckets did AA have before this change? The current legacy system is much more complex than this one. Just look at the hoops you have to jump through to get a refundable ticket on UA, for instance. You either have to input "Y" manually or or read the fare rules since "flexible" fares are sometimes - but not always - refundable. How is AA's new system more complex than AA's old system?

Quoting bond007 (Reply 21):
If I change my flight less than once every 3 or 4 tickets, it's cheaper for me not to buy refundable.

One key point that you are missing, I think, is that for many of us that buy refundable tickets semi-regularly, the odds of needing to change vary drastically from flight to flight. I said above that I probably wind up changing on a quarter or a third of my flights. But at the time I book, most of my trips have a close to zero chance of needing to change or a 50 percent or more chance of needing to change.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 21):
Almost every company, and I speak from experience as somebody who charges on average 2 flights/week to different clients, will go over the prices selected in detail.

True, but in my experience most clients simply want a reason why you did what you did. "I bought refundable because I always bought refundable" isn't a good reason. "I bought refundable because the trip had already been canceled twice and you had already eaten two change fees" usually is all you need.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: WROORD
Posted 2012-12-12 18:33:26 and read 13910 times.

I checked ORD-PVG and they have those fares on international flights as well. My question is how the heck they see someone going all the way to China with no bags on choice fare?

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: OB1504
Posted 2012-12-12 19:45:16 and read 13121 times.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
I guess the PAX will all wear a colored band on their wrists, so the FAs will know what level of abuse,...er,...I mean service to provide.

The only difference from an FA point of view is the complimentary alcoholic beverage. Upon check-in, passengers will be provided with a drink voucher to be presented on board, which the FA will accept in lieu of payment.

Quoting aa77w (Reply 8):
I do wonder about F/A's keeping track of this information and if travel agents will be able to book these fares through a GDS?

Or if ticket agents will be able to sell these at the airport, since the product bundles appear to be separate from the actual fare buckets themselves.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 10):
I'm not seeing anything that states the lowest fare structure still doesn't allow you to pre-reserve seats. Is that correct?

I thought the lowest fare class could always pre-reserve seats, unless the only ones remaining were Preferred or Main Cabin Extra, in which case an additional fee would apply.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
There are two ways to do it. WN does one and F9 does the other. WN kiosks spit out a second piece of paper that is a "drink ticket."
AA will be following the WN model.

Quoting DLT123 (Reply 15):
I can see where this will confuse travelers who travel less in terms of boarding - "But I'm group 1 - I should board before First Class".

Surprisingly, this isn't a common problem with current passengers traveling in Group 1, since it seems to be generally understood that First Class (by definition) boards first.

Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 25):
I completely agree. This allows customers who "hate getting nickled and dimed" to put their money where there mouth is. Want the bag, drink and free standy again? No change fee? Pay the extra 88. Otherwise pay the low base fare and keep quiet when you pay $25 for your bag, then a $75 dollar move up fee and $7 for your beer on the plane. I hope it works out well for AA and maybe the rest of the industry can follow suit.

   I liked Frontier's implementation of all-inclusive fares and I'm glad that another airline is moving toward a similar model.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 26):
Time will tell on this. One of the things eliminated in the new fare structure is the free same-day standby for some of the higher fare classes. Buying stand-by privileges as an extra may not always be reimbursed by clients when billing the cost of airfare to another party (like for a consultant). Those depending upon the ability to standby for earlier or later flights may move considerable high dollar fares to other carriers if passengers are stuck with the cost themselves.

I was under the impression that passengers with tickets booked in Y, B, or H would still be eligible for complimentary same-day standby, which was recently discontinued for all other coach fares due to high loads during the holiday season. Any passenger can standby for a later flight, as happens every day when people show up after the cutoff time for check-in.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
How many coach fare buckets did AA have before this change?

Off of the top of my head, I can count B, G, K, L, M, N, O, Q, S, V, W, and Y (in no particular order), though I'm probably missing one or two more. I don't think the fare buckets are going away, but rather that the new product bundles will be added as special service requests to the bookings.

Quoting WROORD (Reply 33):
I checked ORD-PVG and they have those fares on international flights as well. My question is how the heck they see someone going all the way to China with no bags on choice fare?

One free checked bag is already offered on international flights (except to/from Canada), so it's probably the other benefits that are extended as part of the bundle.

[Edited 2012-12-12 19:47:12]

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-12 20:04:23 and read 12893 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 34):
I was under the impression that passengers with tickets booked in Y, B, or H would still be eligible for complimentary same-day standby

There's a thread on this at FlyerTalk with the new fare rules and standby options.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-12-12 20:14:50 and read 12797 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
I doubt it. As others have pointed out, it's pretty much what WN and F9 do, and not terribly different from AC.

Is it all that different from Air New Zealand's "Seats to Suit" which has four choices?

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/the-choice-is-all-yours

mariner

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: DLT123
Posted 2012-12-12 20:57:53 and read 12460 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 34):
Surprisingly, this isn't a common problem with current passengers traveling in Group 1, since it seems to be generally understood that First Class (by definition) boards first.

Yes but more of what a well-known frequent flyer forum calls "kettles" will end up in Group 1 and perhaps not understand the protocol. Or perhaps not.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: sccutler
Posted 2012-12-12 21:31:40 and read 12188 times.

Quoting bond007,reply=21Quoting tugger (Reply 19):
I wish them god luck, an extra $68 from a bunch of otherwise econo-traveling business people would be a goldmine (I still don't think the real cheap traveler is going to spend it).

But it probably cost them $70 per pax to come up with this structure!

..also, the business expense account is not what is used to be. Almost every company, and I speak from experience as somebody who charges on average 2 flights/week to different clients, will go over the prices selected in detail. For example, my last client did not pay for $45/flight more room on jetBlue. Current client does not pay business select on Southwest unless only fare available .... and these are big clients.

Fully refundable fares are fine, but in my experience it's the minority of business pax that have such a business where it's cost-effective to buy these regularly. If I change my flight less than once every 3 or 4 tickets, it's cheaper for me not to buy refundable.

I'm all for choices, but few folks realize how much overhead this is to the company ....it's absolutely huge.


Jimbo

:

Man, if one is to believe what we read here, you and I are the only ones who are not flying in first all the time!  

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-13 00:48:20 and read 11273 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
Is it all that different from Air New Zealand's "Seats to Suit" which has four choices?

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/the-choice-is-all-yours

mariner

No, not really - in fact, we can be sure that AA looked at a lot of current and past offerings from different carriers to see what might work best now. At least I would presume that was done...

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: mariner
Posted 2012-12-13 00:59:56 and read 11239 times.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 39):
No, not really - in fact, we can be sure that AA looked at a lot of current and past offerings from different carriers to see what might work best now. At least I would presume that was done...

I'm scratching my head to see much difference.

mariner

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: vhtje
Posted 2012-12-13 01:20:43 and read 11140 times.

How does this impact tickets issued from a foreign carrier? If I book a US domestic sector on AA through BA, I currently never have to pay baggage fees or buy food. Although, to be fair, I have never been certain if that was due to the foreign-issued ticket or having oneworld status.

Will this change with this new regime?

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: delimit
Posted 2012-12-13 02:33:29 and read 10875 times.

Quoting WROORD (Reply 33):

I checked ORD-PVG and they have those fares on international flights as well. My question is how the heck they see someone going all the way to China with no bags on choice fare?

Roller in the overhead. Business travelers do it all the time.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: iaddca
Posted 2012-12-13 02:41:06 and read 10853 times.

Really like the no change fee for $34 one way, makes AA a lot more appealing for my LAX and ORD trips.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: usa330300
Posted 2012-12-13 05:00:59 and read 10090 times.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 1):
I guess the PAX will all wear a colored band on their wrists, so the FAs will know what level of abuse,...er,...I mean service to provide.

How insulting. AA FAs work their behinds off, even with the possibility of liquidation, a merger, layoffs, and you have the audacity to make such a comment. As in any industry, I am certain there are bad apples, but your generalized statement is uncalled for. Your statement is just so telling of your maturity, or lack thereof.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-13 06:05:55 and read 9508 times.

Quoting vhtje (Reply 41):
How does this impact tickets issued from a foreign carrier? If I book a US domestic sector on AA through BA, I currently never have to pay baggage fees or buy food. Although, to be fair, I have never been certain if that was due to the foreign-issued ticket or having oneworld status.

Will this change with this new regime?

I don't really think that it will have any impact - if I understand how the fares are being sold, they are only being sold (at this point) via aa.com. If it is a codeshare, the baggage rules from the overseas portion of the flight take precedence.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: DLT123
Posted 2012-12-13 06:13:11 and read 9414 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 34):
I was under the impression that passengers with tickets booked in Y, B, or H would still be eligible for complimentary same-day standby, which was recently discontinued for all other coach fares due to high loads during the holiday season. Any passenger can standby for a later flight, as happens every day when people show up after the cutoff time for check-in.

I have to wonder how many passengers would still try to book Y, B or H fares given what they can get with the new offerings.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-13 06:19:18 and read 9365 times.

Quoting DLT123 (Reply 46):
I have to wonder how many passengers would still try to book Y, B or H fares given what they can get with the new offerings.

A lot of times, the accounting is easier for a refund versus a change. I still might buy a refundable ticket in limited circumstances with the new offering, but this will no doubt reduce the number of Y/B/H tickets bought (while also reducing the number of "as cheap as possible" tickets bought).

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: RamblinMan
Posted 2012-12-13 07:52:55 and read 8573 times.

Quoting usa330300 (Reply 44):
How insulting. AA FAs work their behinds off, even with the possibility of liquidation, a merger, layoffs, and you have the audacity to make such a comment. As in any industry, I am certain there are bad apples, but your generalized statement is uncalled for. Your statement is just so telling of your maturity, or lack thereof.

After observing an AA FA literally screaming at a slow-moving elderly passenger to "get your ass in that seat NOW" as he struggled to get into his row after the seatbelt light was activated, a pitiful look of embarrassment on the poor man's face as the FA stood there shouting insults and of course never bothering to see if there was a way she could assist him...I find your apologist attitude amusing at best, and perhaps downright insulting. You think such comments are uncalled for? Well then you simply don't fly much or else you have your thumbs in your ears.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: wrldtvlr
Posted 2012-12-13 08:34:33 and read 8292 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
I do wonder about F/A's keeping track of this information and if travel agents will be able to book these fares through a GDS?

I received an email from my AA sales rep this morning announcing the new fare structure and how travel agents can book the fares in all GDS systems. I'm on Sabre and can easily price and ticket the fares as of today. I think corporate customers are going to see the benefits of paying an extra $68 to include free baggage and no change fees on certain itineraries.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: ckfred
Posted 2012-12-13 08:47:40 and read 8194 times.

If you're an elite (AAdvantage Gold or higher), how many times do you check 3 bags? If you book a trip with the family, every person in the travel party gets 2 free checked bags, assuming they are all on the same reservation, traveling together.

Sometimes, you have to wonder how much it's worth getting into Group 1. I was once on a flight between ORD and DFW. By the time they called for Priority Access (that's AAdvantage Gold and non-elites on full fare), there were only about 10 people left in the gate.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: skycub
Posted 2012-12-13 08:54:33 and read 8119 times.

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 48):

After observing an AA FA literally screaming at a slow-moving elderly passenger to "get your ass in that seat NOW" as he struggled to get into his row after the seatbelt light was activated, a pitiful look of embarrassment on the poor man's face as the FA stood there shouting insults and of course never bothering to see if there was a way she could assist him...I find your apologist attitude amusing at best, and perhaps downright insulting. You think such comments are uncalled for? Well then you simply don't fly much or else you have your thumbs in your ears.

So you observed ONE AA FA behaving in that manner...

I think that's pretty sure why usa330300 included the phrase:

Quoting usa330300 (Reply 44):
I am certain there are bad apples

He never implied that all AA flight attendants are saints so I am not sure I understand the need for your reply where you cite ONE incident of bad behavior by an AA flight attendant. Or, did I miss something and EVERY AA FA you have ever encountered have behaved this way?

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: YYZBound
Posted 2012-12-13 09:03:27 and read 8020 times.

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 48):
After observing an AA FA literally screaming at a slow-moving elderly passenger to "get your ass in that seat NOW" as he struggled to get into his row after the seatbelt light was activated, a pitiful look of embarrassment on the poor man's face as the FA stood there shouting insults and of course never bothering to see if there was a way she could assist him

And...did you write or email AA to tell them of the inappropriateness of the F/A on that flight?

Been with AA for many years as an F/A myself...and I know of NO crewmember that would get away with using the word 'ass' with a passenger without being seriously disciplined or terminated

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-13 09:48:24 and read 7703 times.

Quoting YYZBound (Reply 52):
Been with AA for many years as an F/A myself...and I know of NO crewmember that would get away with using the word 'ass' with a passenger without being seriously disciplined or terminated

I fly AA a lot and I have never seen or heard a FA use language like that to a passenger. In general, I have found that the FAs' comportment is pretty good, esp. compared to other U.S. carriers.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: YYZBound
Posted 2012-12-13 12:06:50 and read 7354 times.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 53):
I fly AA a lot and I have never seen or heard a FA use language like that to a passenger. In general, I have found that the FAs' comportment is pretty good, esp. compared to other U.S. carriers.

Thank you!

Furthermore, if I or any of my co-workers saw a fellow crewmember using that language, we would pull them aside and have some words of diplomacy I assure you. And they would do the same for me.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-13 15:45:28 and read 7119 times.

Quoting YYZBound (Reply 54):
Thank you!

Furthermore, if I or any of my co-workers saw a fellow crewmember using that language, we would pull them aside and have some words of diplomacy I assure you. And they would do the same for me.

My pleasure - but it was the truth too  

Besides, what you said makes eminent sense.

Clearly, someone can have a bad day but ...

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: DTWLAX
Posted 2012-12-13 17:35:56 and read 6968 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
Pull up PDX-MIA outbound Jan 9, returning Jan 16. The lowest fare, $416, is only viewable if you select it from the page 2 tab on the bottom of the page, and then it requires scrolling half way down the page to find it. Have you seen something easier?

I noticed that too. Even if you click on sort by price, you still cannot get the lowest fare on top.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-13 18:25:44 and read 6910 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 50):
If you're an elite (AAdvantage Gold or higher), how many times do you check 3 bags? If you book a trip with the family, every person in the travel party gets 2 free checked bags, assuming they are all on the same reservation, traveling together.

You don't. I don't think this aimed as much at elites as at casual travellers.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-13 18:33:00 and read 6896 times.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 57):
You don't. I don't think this aimed as much at elites as at casual travellers.

It depends what you do. I have checked some bizarre items (usually in bags) for work in the past.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: OB1504
Posted 2012-12-13 20:48:01 and read 6793 times.

Quoting YYZBound (Reply 54):
Furthermore, if I or any of my co-workers saw a fellow crewmember using that language, we would pull them aside and have some words of diplomacy I assure you. And they would do the same for me.

And management would just love the savings incurred by firing an unruly FA like that and replacing him or her with a new-hire at the bottom of the wage scale. As other posters have mentioned, behavior like that is simply not tolerated at the new AA.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 58):
It depends what you do. I have checked some bizarre items (usually in bags) for work in the past.

Just this week, I had to explain to an irate passenger that no, he couldn't take his power saw through security in his carry-on baggage, and I also had another woman pull a sex toy from her purse and ask me if it was okay to take through (I suggested removing the batteries). Never a dull moment at the airport!

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: IMissPiedmont
Posted 2012-12-14 04:02:58 and read 6633 times.

AA has a fare of $626 from TUS to SAT listed, has to be a mistake because they have always been the same as WN. I'd put up with the LAX transfer to save $409 each way. Perhaps AA wants no bookings for the spring?

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-14 06:29:48 and read 6532 times.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 59):
Just this week, I had to explain to an irate passenger that no, he couldn't take his power saw through security in his carry-on baggage, and I also had another woman pull a sex toy from her purse and ask me if it was okay to take through (I suggested removing the batteries). Never a dull moment at the airport!

It's amazing how travel has changed. I just watched an episode (rerun) of Perry Mason from the 1960s where Mason is on a plane to Switzerland. The guy in back of him had a gun in his briefcase and it fell out in turbulence. It ended up at Mason's feet. Mason picked it up and said to him "drop something?"

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Alias1024
Posted 2012-12-14 10:35:34 and read 6360 times.

The only problem I have with it are the names for each tier. To me "essential" sounds like it should be the lowest tier, not the middle, as the word implies you are buying only what is absolutely necessary to get from A to B, with no perks.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Flighty
Posted 2012-12-14 11:05:26 and read 6327 times.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 61):
The guy in back of him had a gun in his briefcase and it fell out in turbulence. It ended up at Mason's feet. Mason picked it up and said to him "drop something?"

I've seen weapons on passengers in recent years. One assumes they had the right to carry, but of course how can you know. Hopefully they don't leave it in the lavatory:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...tly-left-in-romney-plane-lavatory/

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-14 13:07:54 and read 6208 times.

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
I doubt it. As others have pointed out, it's pretty much what WN and F9 do, and not terribly different from AC.

Is it all that different from Air New Zealand's "Seats to Suit" which has four choices?

AC was probably the first legacy carrier to do something similar about 7 years ago (2005 if memory correct) on North American routes, including one-way pricing for all fares. It's still in effect today with minor changes over the years. Fare categories are called:

Tango
Latitude
Latitude Plus
Executive class lowest
Executive class flexible

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-14 13:10:03 and read 6197 times.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 62):
The only problem I have with it are the names for each tier. To me "essential" sounds like it should be the lowest tier, not the middle, as the word implies you are buying only what is absolutely necessary to get from A to B, with no perks.

Looking at it from the perspective of each tier adding something, using the outline in American Revamps Fare Structure, in which each tier has what the previous tier has plus additional features.

I think American went with "more words are better", i.e. choice + something is better than just choice. I don't disagree with you, by the way, "essential" sounds bare minimum to me.

Choice
Choice Essential
Choice Plus
Fully Flexible
First/Business

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-14 13:17:07 and read 6192 times.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 65):
I think American went with "more words are better", i.e. choice + something is better than just choice. I don't disagree with you, by the way, "essential" sounds bare minimum to me.

I would think it unlikely that AA didn't pass these choices of words through focus groups and marketing types to develop which words elicit positive action responses. Seeing "Essential" as the first level of upgrade to me means "essential to have for the best value". "Plus" as the next level up says "has a few more bones to pick if they'd be of value to you".

Me, I'd just be happy if they brought back EaasySabre and called it a day.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Flighty
Posted 2012-12-14 14:28:13 and read 6096 times.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 65):
I think American went with "more words are better", i.e. choice + something is better than just choice. I don't disagree with you, by the way, "essential" sounds bare minimum to me.

The words are utterly impact-less. I can't remember them right now after 5 seconds of looking away.

So, probably no one will. If every airline does this with different words for all 4-5 products, it will be an alphabet soup probably designed to help get this stuff back into expense accounts, and get past audits, which is good.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-12-14 14:49:45 and read 6048 times.

I have flown AA quite frequently and have never had anything close to that happening to me on most airlines. A UA F/A did cuss me out once and she disappeared for the rest of the flight. I hope that she was not kept on though after the flight. I have since gone back to UA and have found that the service has improved. That was the only time I have ever encountered such poor manners from an F/A.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-14 15:20:25 and read 6001 times.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 67):
it will be an alphabet soup probably designed to help get this stuff back into expense accounts, and get past audits, which is good.

As noted on another forum, AA has coded the "Essential" and "Plus" fares with a unique last number. It won't take long for the bean counters in travel auditing departments to catch on when that info makes the rounds. You'll see travel policies prohibiting AA fare codes ending in 2 or 7.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Flighty
Posted 2012-12-14 15:25:44 and read 5979 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 69):
As noted on another forum, AA has coded the "Essential" and "Plus" fares with a unique last number. It won't take long for the bean counters in travel auditing departments to catch on when that info makes the rounds. You'll see travel policies prohibiting AA fare codes ending in 2 or 7.

Ah. Well, at least you have to give AA credit for trying. It looks like a very low cost initiative, & it's getting us talking. The standby thing in particular is good.

Also... do clients really expect people to travel without bags? Those heartless b*stards.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-14 15:38:25 and read 5952 times.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 70):
Also... do clients really expect people to travel without bags?

No, they'll pay for them when needed and pay the per piece rate. What they won't pay for is shenanigans to get them to accept a hidden $88 expense for the traveler to earn 50% bonus miles and get a free drink en route.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: IMissPiedmont
Posted 2012-12-14 17:45:47 and read 5826 times.

Looking at the website later I did notice the fares are now listed for the round trip. Still driving is better for less than 2000 mile trips unless I have only a few days.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-15 04:48:19 and read 5597 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
Quoting bond007 (Reply 21):
But it probably cost them $70 per pax to come up with this structure!

I doubt it

Yes, a somewhat tongue in cheek comment... but my point was it cost something, probably a substantial amount of money, the exact amount we will never know. Some folks seems to think that these kind of changes come at little cost to the airline ...quite the opposite.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
How is AA's new system more complex than AA's old system?

I'm not arguing it's 'more' complex, just too complex.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
I said above that I probably wind up changing on a quarter or a third of my flights. But at the time I book, most of my trips have a close to zero chance of needing to change or a 50 percent or more chance of needing to change.

Right, but if you know from experience how many you will probably change on average, it doesn't matter that you don't know at time of booking. If on average, you only change 1/4 or 1/3 of your tickets, one time, then it's not worth paying for a refundable ticket each time.

If my math is correct, you'd need to change 50% of your flights at least once, to make it worth buying a refundable ticket....most frequent business travelers don't make that many changes.


Jimbo

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-15 07:55:10 and read 5529 times.

I think what AA is doing is trying to appeal to less frequent travellers by saying, "just spend a little bit more, and not only will you take all the worry out of travel but you'll be treated much better and have more legroom, too."

Esp. to "nervous" travelers, this will have some degree of appeal. It also depends on how the airline messages this in its advertising, I should add, but they have the basic underpinnings now in place. Good for AA!

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-15 12:47:47 and read 5369 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 73):
If my math is correct, you'd need to change 50% of your flights at least once, to make it worth buying a refundable ticket....most frequent business travelers don't make that many changes.

No, I think that's right. The point is that my travel more or less falls in to two buckets, one of very frequent changes and one of very infrequent changes. If it's a "frequently changed" trip, I'll go ahead and buy a refundable ticket, because on trips of that sort, I probably do change more than 50 percent of the tickets. If it's an "infrequently changed" trip, I'll buy the nonrefundable ticket. This program won't change my behavior much.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 69):
It won't take long for the bean counters in travel auditing departments to catch on when that info makes the rounds. You'll see travel policies prohibiting AA fare codes ending in 2 or 7.

Probably so, but it's a silly policy. There are trips on which Choice Essential makes sense and saves money, and trips on which Choice Plus makes sense and saves money. The key for the "bean counters" is to ingrain in people that they need to think before they book.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: DLT123
Posted 2012-12-15 14:54:54 and read 5288 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 73):
If my math is correct, you'd need to change 50% of your flights at least once, to make it worth buying a refundable ticket....most frequent business travelers don't make that many changes.

This is true - and perhaps the least interesting benefit to many here - but from a marketing standpoint, esp. when combined with other benefits, it may "sound" better than it really is.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-15 15:14:14 and read 5282 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 75):
The key for the "bean counters" is to ingrain in people that they need to think before they book.

A lot of corporate America doesn't book their own travel, they go through appointed agencies. At my workplace I've seen the agency (a large 24-hour worldwide agency) return reservations with 5-hour layovers somewhere just to save $100. Not everyone gets to sit in front of their computer choosing flights. A guy down the hall from me sits there on his speakerphone with our agency booking all of his department's travel when he needs to move people around. If someone asked, "would you like to add a free change, 50% more miles and a cocktail to this ticket for $88?" they'd just hear laughing on the other end.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-15 18:10:44 and read 5168 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 77):
A lot of corporate America doesn't book their own travel, they go through appointed agencies. At my workplace I've seen the agency (a large 24-hour worldwide agency) return reservations with 5-hour layovers somewhere just to save $100.

Your second sentence explains why your first sentence is changing, I think. In the industries in which I work, we've seen a pretty drastic move away from the big agencies in the past 10-15 years. There are two reasons: time is money (both as far as the layovers and as far as the massive waste of time that often results from sitting on the phone trying to book the needed itinerary), and often putting something that works together online - including buying the appropriate unbundled ticket - produces a more cost-effective means to the same end.

I expect in 10-20 years, most or all of the Fortune 500 will not be using agencies anymore for routine travel.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-15 18:26:05 and read 5156 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 78):
Your second sentence explains why your first sentence is changing, I think. In the industries in which I work, we've seen a pretty drastic move away from the big agencies in the past 10-15 years.

That may be, but we do have the option to reject an itinerary that is ridiculous like the one I gave as an example. But then, it was just a few years ago that our MNC switched to a worldwide agency that was able to support the whole company, vs. using regional agencies in different parts of the world. I believe that one of the reasons was that it allowed for a greater discount based upon total volume directed towards one alliance than another, rather than the volume being split up region by region.

I'm sure you'll agree with the notion that there are a lot of different parameters which go into deciding which is the best route to go to get tickets issued. What may work for one won't work for another, with the most important goal simply being an efficient, cost-effective solution.

The new aa.com doesn't even allow you to sort by price, which to me says that AA doesn't fully understand how their customers use the product they're selling, or how they buy it, very well. That's a major, major error.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-15 18:31:59 and read 5153 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 79):
I believe that one of the reasons was that it allowed for a greater discount based upon total volume directed towards one alliance than another, rather than the volume being split up region by region.

The thing about it is that telling people "book Skyteam," giving them a fare/discount code to input at delta.com and refusing to pay for Star or Oneworld tickets when there is a Skyteam option available gets you to the same place without paying commission, which can be pretty steep (one of our clients that still works with an agency pays the agency $39 per booking).

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-15 18:48:34 and read 5120 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 80):
The thing about it is that telling people "book Skyteam," giving them a fare/discount code to input at delta.com

That's why our agency is supposed to look at the net fare with an alliance discount vs. booking outside of the contract for a lower fare before submitting an itinerary to review. Doing that too often may run into a false economy, though, as the lower the volume to support the discount may eventually lower the discount enough to cost far more over all. I've never seen our contract, so I've no idea how much leeway there might be against our total worldwide travel expense.

Unless there's some overriding reason, such as standing at the airport looking at a cancelled flight, with the only other possibility to get to where one has to be is departing momentarily, all of our bookings must go through the agency. No one's going to screw up a customer relationship by saying they weren't able to perform their duties because they had to wait for the agency to come back with a travel solution. You do what's needed to make the flight.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-15 18:51:40 and read 5119 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 81):
No one's going to screw up a customer relationship by saying they weren't able to perform their duties because they had to wait for the agency to come back with a travel solution.

No, but again, time is money. If your time is worth $200 an hour and you waste 2 hours a month on the phone with the agency, that's $400 down the drain. If you could find better itineraries that save you, on average, 2 hours a month of travel time if you do it yourself, that's $400 more down the drain. I think more companies are starting to look at those hidden costs.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-15 19:06:14 and read 5090 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 82):
I think more companies are starting to look at those hidden costs.

Of course, but that's not the usual and customary way we book our travel. We send an e-mail stating we need to go somewhere on what date, even if it's that afternoon, state the return date if known, then we get an e-mail back. Most of my colleagues just accept what's suggested and don't feel that planning their own travel comes as part and parcel with their job description, nor do they have much interest in it. The guy down the hall who plans his staff's travel on the phone is largely an exception because of why he's moving people around. My last ticket cost me all of five minutes of my time to arrange, which I find acceptable.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: dcann40
Posted 2012-12-16 07:36:53 and read 4888 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 83):
Of course, but that's not the usual and customary way we book our travel. We send an e-mail stating we need to go somewhere on what date, even if it's that afternoon, state the return date if known, then we get an e-mail back.

A large number of companies, but not the majority, have heavily managed travel systems where the employee (or an admin asst) inputs a trip and gets the approved lowest fare from the system. If my understanding of this is correct, the rules are set by the company but the system might be licensed to use from Amex or another supplier. Depending on the parameters that the company sets, there may be some latitude in choosing fares, and the employee's position in the company will also play a significant role.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: liftsifter
Posted 2012-12-16 18:56:16 and read 4675 times.

I actually really like this fare structure, nice and easy to understand and somehow I always get cheaper fares now..

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-17 18:45:43 and read 4281 times.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 74):
I think what AA is doing is trying to appeal to less frequent travellers by saying, "just spend a little bit more, and not only will you take all the worry out of travel but you'll be treated much better and have more legroom, too."
Quoting aa77w (Reply 8):
It provides for a tailored approach for customers to choose which services are valuable/important without feeling nickeled and dimed.
Quoting wrldtvlr (Reply 49):
I think corporate customers are going to see the benefits of paying an extra $68 to include free baggage and no change fees on certain itineraries.
Quoting liftsifter (Reply 85):
somehow I always get cheaper fares now..

The only important point here is that AA are doing this to make MORE money, and charge more for your tickets. That's the only reason they are doing it ... to think otherwise is very naive.

Their business is to get more revenue - not give you more choices or cheaper options ....unless that means more revenue to AA.

It's interesting that they overbook every flight, but then penalize you $150 for changing your itinerary (didn't they overbook to cover those exact costs?) ... it's almost humorous that they can get away with it. It wouldn't happen, or be allowed to happen, in any other industry.

They threaten you with a ridiculous $150 change fee, so they can now offer you a $68 cheaper option .... and that's a good thing?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 70):
looks like a very low cost initiative

Hardly low-cost to change pricing structures, websites, train staff, etc. etc.


Jimbo

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-17 18:56:46 and read 4260 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 86):
The only important point here is that AA are doing this to make MORE money, and charge more for your tickets. That's the only reason they are doing it ... to think otherwise is very naive.

True, of course, but at least in some circumstances, it's a win-win. AA makes more money than it otherwise would, and the customer gets more value than he otherwise would.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-18 04:29:38 and read 4087 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 87):
it's a win-win. AA makes more money than it otherwise would, and the customer gets more value than he otherwise would.

It cannot be a win-win if the overall objective is to bring in more revenue for AA.

For every customer that gets more perceived 'value', the others simply must end up paying more ... or there would be no point in AA's new strategy.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 84):
A large number of companies, but not the majority, have heavily managed travel systems where the employee (or an admin asst) inputs a trip and gets the approved lowest fare from the system. If my understanding of this is correct, the rules are set by the company but the system might be licensed to use from Amex or another supplier.

Agreed, and I see more and more companies using these systems. Many companies are using Amex/Concur - they have approval functionality, expense management, self-billing, e-invoicing etc.. and as you say, the company can tailor the system to certain airlines/fares/hotel chains etc.

Jimbo

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-18 04:32:53 and read 4084 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 88):
For every customer that gets more perceived 'value', the others simply must end up paying more ... or there would be no point in AA's new strategy.

Not sure I agree. Surely, there are transaction costs associated with drink purchases, change fees, standby fees, etc. that this program eliminates.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-18 05:14:35 and read 4057 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 89):
Surely, there are transaction costs associated with drink purchases, change fees, standby fees, etc. that this program eliminates.

Only if you pay the extra charge and change your ticket. If they didn't want the customer to pay for change fees and standby fees, they could simply eliminate them. They are gambling on the fact that far more people will pay the extra charges, and NOT change their tickets ... the customer is gambling too, but like all types of gambling, the house always has the edge.

My point is they are not doing this so that the customer, on average, pays less.... quite the opposite, while making it sound like a good deal for some customers (and it might well be).

Jimbo

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-18 19:04:23 and read 3888 times.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 90):
Only if you pay the extra charge and change your ticket.

Well yes, but collecting the change fee and processing the credit card costs money - just like it does for buying a drink on board and bag fees. Plenty of other companies are trying to reduce or eliminate small-ish credit card charges; Apple's new program whereby they bundle a couple of weeks worth of iTunes store purchases and run them as a single credit card transaction is a great program.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2012-12-19 09:47:26 and read 3739 times.

Quoting dcann40 (Reply 14):
Quoting usairways85 (Reply 11):Well I'm really confused. I'm a UA flier so I'm not sure how AA has done it but yes they have those types of refundable fares but they are typically at least double the lowest fare, not $88 more.

Are the Choice Essential & Plus $68/88 more than the Choice ticket respectively? So if I have a $600 Choice ticket get Choice plus for $688 and end up changing both RT legs as part of the bundled ticket. Where as if I purchase the $600 ticket previously I would have paid $150 each leg to change it, total of $900.
I think you have to look at it like a ladder,

Look at the bulleted chart in American Revamps Fare Structure - that should answer your question, although I wasn't exactly sure what you were asking.

I think, however, that the gist of it is that you pay $668 versus $900 presuming you did buy the right ticket to start with.

I llike it this refinement. I travel on both business and plesure, and change flights from time to time (whether flying for business or pleasure).

Under former pricing (and other airlines still use) I can buy a "flexible" ticket but the cost is so much more than the "firm" ticket that it makes sense to take the chance and pay the change fee, if necesary. Which is what I have done.

But under this new structure, I would likely pay the extra $88 to have the flexibility.

I would go so far as to say that this might make the difference in which airline I book with, since I am usually flying on routes btw Canada and the US that have multiple carriers to chose from. AA is often a contender; prices are usually relatively similar, and the ultimatle choice it comes down to timing, connections, choice of aiports (i.e., YYZ-MIA or BUF to FLL?). In fact, AA has in the past lost out because the change fee is higher than others.

Topic: RE: AA Rolls Out New Fare Structure
Username: bond007
Posted 2012-12-19 15:02:13 and read 3652 times.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 92):
Under former pricing (and other airlines still use) I can buy a "flexible" ticket but the cost is so much more than the "firm" ticket that it makes sense to take the chance and pay the change fee, if necesary. Which is what I have done.

But under this new structure, I would likely pay the extra $88 to have the flexibility.

I think somebody was quite clever at AA on this.

Just like your perceived loss was not that bad when you had to pay the $150 (or whatever) change fee, once in every few flights, the fact that you pay an extra $88 for every ticket doesn't sound that bad either .... even though in the long-term you actually might end up spending more ... on each ticket the 'insurance' is not too bad.

You would still need to change your ticket at least every other flight to make it worth your while though.

I agree that the old fully refundable fares were mostly a joke.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 91):
Well yes, but collecting the change fee and processing the credit card costs money - just like it does for buying a drink on board and bag fees. Plenty of other companies are trying to reduce or eliminate small-ish credit card charges;

Agreed, but the per-transaction costs are relatively small (10-30c). The biggest costs for the credit card are the percentage fees, which would be the same whether one transaction or several.

Of course somebody is going to say that they do 1,000,000 drink/bag transactions/day, so even 10c might be significant  

Jimbo


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