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Topic: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-20 15:35:21 and read 14257 times.

Looking at the newest update for the Delta timetable and Delta has loaded 3x daily LAX-SEA with OO CR9s. Flights start APR8

LAX-SEA
DL4523 LAX-SEA 0815-1100 OO CR9
DL4591 LAX-SEA 1520-1805 OO CR9
DL4564 LAX-SEA 2130-0015 OO CR9 +1

SEA-LAX
DL4563 SEA-LAX 0645-0925 OO CR9
DL4523 SEA-LAX 1150-1430 OO CR9
DL4591 SEA-LAX 1850-2130 OO CR9

(note DL4563 doesn't start till APR9)

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-12-20 15:42:16 and read 14215 times.

Makes you wonder why they have to add their own metal if their partnership with AS is going so well? Or is it?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Fly2yyz
Posted 2012-12-20 15:44:16 and read 14180 times.

How many airlines does AS codeshare with on that route specifically? Was DL maybe having trouble getting their volume on the flights competing against the other codesharing airlines?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: gigneil
Posted 2012-12-20 15:45:21 and read 14181 times.

AS is an ffp whore.

Also, has DL lost their mind? Is the plan to feed SYD?

NS

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-20 15:48:19 and read 14130 times.

With SEA that 32 cities and 107 flights for Delta at LAX.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: N62NA
Posted 2012-12-20 15:51:54 and read 14095 times.

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 2):
How many airlines does AS codeshare with on that route specifically?

That came to my mind immediately after I got over the disappointment that these new flights actually won't be operated by DL.

Looks like it's just AA (for USA airlines anyway) codesharing on the route once DL goes away.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-20 15:53:09 and read 14078 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
Makes you wonder why they have to add their own metal if their partnership with AS is going so well? Or is it?

I would guess Delta wants some control with its feed.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):
Also, has DL lost their mind? Is the plan to feed SYD?

I would say to feed Hawaii and SYD from LA and PEK/PVG/KIX from SEA.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-12-20 15:54:00 and read 14076 times.

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 2):
Was DL maybe having trouble getting their volume on the flights competing against the other codesharing airlines?

If AS is turning away DL's LAX-SEA-PEK/KIX in favor or bargain bin Mexico-LAX-SEA, DL has bigger problems than AS availability and pricing 

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-20 15:54:52 and read 14054 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):

Delta isn't dropping any codeshares on AS's flights.

All of AS's LAX-SEA flights still show a Delta codeshare as far out as the timetable will go. (JUN10)

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: gigneil
Posted 2012-12-20 15:55:01 and read 14053 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 6):
I would say to feed Hawaii and SYD from LA and PEK/PVG/KIX from SEA.

I didn't think the other way. Thanks.

NS

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: mpdpilot
Posted 2012-12-20 16:01:35 and read 13988 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
Looks like it's just AA (for USA airlines anyway) codesharing on the route once DL goes away.

Why would the codeshare go away? Can you not codeshare on a route that you both operate?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-20 16:09:40 and read 13889 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 10):
Why would the codeshare go away? Can you not codeshare on a route that you both operate?

I'm afraid this was an assumption on the poster's part.....a bad one, at that.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: seahawks7757
Posted 2012-12-20 16:09:51 and read 13889 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 10):

You can, there are code shares on MSP flights operated by AS and DL and have shared flight numbers on most of them.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2012-12-20 16:11:13 and read 13866 times.

DL tried briefly with ERJs on SEA-LAX a few years ago and it was operated with 727s in the 90s. It's good to see them operating the route, but a CRJ, going against AS 737s and VX A320s hasn't worked so well for United, so I wonder how well it will work for DL. Give us some 737s or A320s and they can make the route work. DL has built up SEA and LAX.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: pqdtw
Posted 2012-12-20 16:15:22 and read 13817 times.

Will the AS code be on these flights?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: TWA902fly
Posted 2012-12-20 16:18:53 and read 13775 times.

on the SEA-LAX route... AS codeshares with

Air Pacific
Cathay Pacific
Delta
Icelandair
Korean Air
LAN
Qantas

so maybe DL does need a few of their own flights?

'902

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-12-20 16:22:46 and read 13741 times.

It's too bad the 717's won't make out west. The SEA-LAX route would be perfect for DL along the west coast...maybe more comfortable anyway.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: questions
Posted 2012-12-20 16:33:15 and read 13660 times.

Why doesn't VX whore itself out like AS?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: questions
Posted 2012-12-20 16:35:30 and read 13643 times.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):
AS is an ffp whore.

Why doesn't VX whore itself out like AS?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2012-12-20 16:37:30 and read 13625 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4523 LAX-SEA 0815-1100 OO CR9

On LAX end, allows for good connections from SYD, KOA, OGG, HNL, LIH, SAN, LAS. (granted, AS has nonstops to all of these but SYD). SEA end allows for some extra flow to NRT/AMS/CDG if the LAX nonstops are full, as well as KIX and PVG.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4591 LAX-SEA 1520-1805 OO CR9

Not much useful connectivity at LAX. SEA allows for PEK, HND (if LAX flight is full).

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4564 LAX-SEA 2130-0015 OO CR9 +1

LAX end allows for HNL/PHX/LAS (again, nothing great, but does allow a decent option for a daytime flight from Hawaii). Nothing on SEA end.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4563 SEA-LAX 0645-0925 OO CR9

LAX end allows for connections to SAN (meh), MSY and MCO. SEA end has feed from PEK.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4523 SEA-LAX 1150-1430 OO CR9

LAX end allows for SAN/LAS (meh). Allows for inbound from PVG.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
DL4591 SEA-LAX 1850-2130 OO CR9

LAX end allows for SYD, MIA, MCO, TPA, IND and other DL hubs. SEA has feed from HND

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
DL tried briefly with ERJs on SEA-LAX a few years ago and it was operated with 727s in the 90s. It's good to see them operating the route, but a CRJ, going against AS 737s and VX A320s hasn't worked so well for United, so I wonder how well it will work for DL. Give us some 737s or A320s and they can make the route work. DL has built up SEA and LAX.

The CR9s at least are a world different than the ERJs tried five or so years ago. First Class, wi-fi, Economy Comfort, etc. For a two hour flight, it's not a horrible plane and will be reasonably competitive with AS/VX. Since the flight is over 900 miles, F does get a meal.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 6):
I would guess Delta wants some control with its feed.

Keep in mind that with codesharing, some money gets paid from the marketing airline to the operating airline. It's great if you can't fill your own planes, but once you get enough of a presence, it makes sense to start flying your own plane and keeping that money than farming it out. Now with the feed and presence on both ends of this route, I'm guessing that there's a decent bit of people that DL is putting on AS each day to the point where it makes more financial sense to put your own planes on it and not hand that money over to AS.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: xlc
Posted 2012-12-20 17:14:03 and read 13370 times.

From a SkyClub perspective this is greatly appreciated.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: QANTAS747-438
Posted 2012-12-20 17:19:35 and read 13335 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 4):
With SEA that 32 cities and 107 flights for Delta at LAX.

For comparison, that's almost exactly the same size operation as WN at LAX.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2012-12-20 17:32:49 and read 13234 times.

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 21):
For comparison, that's almost exactly the same size operation as WN at LAX.

WN has slightly more flights (113 vs 107), less destinations (23 vs 32) but more seats (about 9000 more seats/week than DL)

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2012-12-20 17:41:50 and read 13180 times.

Well, Delta would seem to be the new United in the LAX market for us Seattle folks. I've always enjoyed QX CR7 flights and I'm sure I'd enjoy DL CR9's as well.

-Dave

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: HVNandrew
Posted 2012-12-20 19:15:43 and read 12770 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
DL tried briefly with ERJs on SEA-LAX a few years ago

It was during DL's ERJ phase at LAX around 2006, but it was actually run as a 1x daily 738 over that summer. I don't know if it was an ERJ before then (along with a lot of other things around then), but it did run on mainline that summer.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: ridgid727
Posted 2012-12-20 19:47:50 and read 13117 times.

This was an original Western Airlines Route that DL axed, started, axed, started, axed and willbe starting again.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-12-20 20:16:31 and read 12984 times.

I hope (and don't doubt) that it'll do well! I like to see DL build up stations that aren't LGA or ATL in the last year or so.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-12-20 20:58:02 and read 13192 times.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):
Also, has DL lost their mind? Is the plan to feed SYD?

It's equally dumb to their LAX-SFO service. It's probably also to stick it to AS.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2012-12-20 21:14:00 and read 13064 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 27):
It's equally dumb to their LAX-SFO service. It's probably also to stick it to AS.

Yet LAX-SFO is profitable for Delta. Go figure.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: laca773
Posted 2012-12-20 21:24:41 and read 12999 times.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
DL tried briefly with ERJs on SEA-LAX a few years ago and it was operated with 727s in the 90s. It's good to see them operating the route, but a CRJ, going against AS 737s and VX A320s hasn't worked so well for United, so I wonder how well it will work for DL. Give us some 737s or A320s and they can make the route work. DL has built up SEA and LAX.

   ! The main difference between DLC and UAX is DL does offer a F cabin with catering while UAX hands out those carb boxes in Y+. I believe also quite often UAX does downgauge LAX-SEA to CR5s from the CR7s.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
It's too bad the 717's won't make out west. The SEA-LAX route would be perfect for DL along the west coast...maybe more comfortable anyway.

  ! Agreed. This route would be a great a/c for DL to start out with and upgauge accordingly.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Goldenshield
Posted 2012-12-20 21:28:53 and read 12905 times.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 29):
CR5s

What's a CR5?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: chrisair
Posted 2012-12-20 21:31:43 and read 12907 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
maybe more comfortable anyway.

I don't find the OO CR7 or CR9 uncomfortable. The CR9s aren't that bad in the back. Probably wouldn't take it over an AS 737, but it's a nice backup to the AS service...

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 28):
Yet LAX-SFO is profitable for Delta. Go figure.

They run hourly-ish shuttles on that route. I take it a lot. It's a nice alternative to WN at times...plus I find the DL terminal at LAX to be nicer and easier than the WN terminal thanks to PreCheck...

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Alasizon
Posted 2012-12-20 21:40:58 and read 12857 times.

This sounds very similar to SEA-SLC. Both carriers see that there is room for service and so they both operate.

Granted, SEA-LAX is already relatively saturated, but I can say that most months of the year, it can be hard to get anything but a middle seat within the 21 day booking window (or less). Now, while that means there are seats available, people are less likely to take a flight with only middle seats.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-12-20 21:43:49 and read 12859 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 28):
Yet LAX-SFO is profitable for Delta. Go figure.

High CASM RJs are profitable up against UA/WN/VX/AA mainline trying to kill each other? Unlikely.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 29):
! The main difference between DLC and UAX is DL does offer a F cabin with catering while UAX hands out those carb boxes in Y+. I believe also quite often UAX does downgauge LAX-SEA to CR5s from the CR7s.

UA's LAXSEA is like Invisalign®--it's barely there.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 19):
On LAX end, allows for good connections from SYD, KOA, OGG, HNL, LIH, SAN, LAS. (granted, AS has nonstops to all of these but SYD). SEA end allows for some extra flow to NRT/AMS/CDG if the LAX nonstops are full, as well as KIX and PVG.

Outside of maybe SYD you're getting into some really marginal cheap connection traffic

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: abrelosojos
Posted 2012-12-20 21:48:59 and read 12809 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):

Makes you wonder why they have to add their own metal if their partnership with AS is going so well? Or is it?

= Why does UA maintain an once a day CR7 on YVR-LAX  ?

Saludos,
A.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: olddominion727
Posted 2012-12-20 21:51:56 and read 12822 times.

Keep in mind that before DL and AS were going at it like two teenagers in the back seat, they were rivals in this market. DL used to fly 727/757 to both SEA and PDX from LAX. Back when they had their hub at LAX. They also flew between PDX-Sea, like AS, TW, CO, AA, QQ, EA, NW most of the time just to reposition equipment.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: dc9northwest
Posted 2012-12-20 21:57:44 and read 12773 times.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 31):
I don't find the OO CR7 or CR9 uncomfortable. The CR9s aren't that bad in the back. Probably wouldn't take it over an AS 737, but it's a nice backup to the AS service...

A least on the Skywest birds I've flown, there aren't any extended overhead bins, even in First Class. Although, I've had great service on OO... Don't like those CRJ overhead bins, they're too tiny to be useful. Did DL/its regional partners only install extended overhead bins on some CR9s? I think all the Embraers feature those...

OO is much better than Pinnacle/ex-Mesaba, where the service was quite bad unfortunately.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: laca773
Posted 2012-12-20 21:59:21 and read 12755 times.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 30):
What's a CR5?

It's also known as a CR2/CRJ. I believe it's sometimes called a CR5 since it's a 50 seat a/c.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: SR117
Posted 2012-12-20 21:59:46 and read 12769 times.

Given the big increase of international operations at SEA, it's nice to see DL operate some feeder flights with its own metal. This should make things like LAX-SEA-KIX possible on DL metal without having to transit through HNL. Three CRJ9s a day doesn't seem like something that would step on AS's toes either. Let's see how this looks after a year.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: dc9northwest
Posted 2012-12-20 22:57:10 and read 12585 times.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 37):
It's also known as a CR2/CRJ. I believe it's sometimes called a CR5 since it's a 50 seat a/c.

Yep; I think it was internal to DL though.

Comair had CR4s and CR5s in 2002-2003 (around when I first flew Comair); CR4 being the 44-seat variant CRJ-440 (basically the same as the CRJ-100/200), which I guess competed vs the ERJ-140.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-12-20 23:12:45 and read 12536 times.

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 32):
Granted, SEA-LAX is already relatively saturated, but I can say that most months of the year, it can be hard to get anything but a middle seat within the 21 day booking window (or less). Now, while that means there are seats available, people are less likely to take a flight with only middle seats.

Even though AS has pretty deep connection ties with DL, a lot of AS flights are packed with AS passengers, which probably doesn't leave a whole lot of interline traffic. DL's new flights will alleviate that issue.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-21 04:22:12 and read 11625 times.

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 25):
This was an original Western Airlines Route that DL axed, started, axed, started, axed and will be starting again
Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 35):
DL used to fly 727/757 to both SEA and PDX from LAX. Back when they had their hub at LAX.

Believe it or not, DL flying the SEA-LAX route was way before the WA merger, they used to run an L-1011 in 1982

http://www.departedflights.com/DL103182.html

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 35):
They also flew between PDX-Sea, like AS, TW, CO, AA, QQ, EA, NW most of the time just to reposition equipment.

According to my count 40-43 carriers, depending on how you count 'em up, below is my compiled list to the best of my abilities so far, As far as I'm concerned PDX-SEA is the ultimate tag route 747's to PAG's

ZA=AccessAir - 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/ZA103199.html
OC=Air Cal - M80, 73S, 733 - http://www.departedflights.com/OC050187.html
JT=Air Oregon - SWM - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/jt/jt79/jt79-08.jpg
RW=Airwest - DC9s - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/rw68/rw68-2.jpg
*AS=Alaska Airlines - 727, 72S, 73S, 734, 73G, M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/AS091586.html
*AA=American Airlines - M80, 72S, 727 - http://www.departedflights.com/AA042681p32.html
TZ=American Trans Air - L10 - http://www.departedflights.com/TZ121794.html
Bennett Air Transport - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ben30a.htm
*BN=Braniff International - 747, 72S, 727 - http://www.departedflights.com/BN071576.html
CZ=Cascade Airways - HS7, BE9, B11 - http://www.departedflights.com/CZ090984.html
7C=Columbia Pacific Airlines (BFI) - PAG - http://www.departedflights.com/PDX91p3.html
*CO=Continental Airlines - D10, 707, 720, 727, 72S, M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/CO010880.html
*DL=Delta Airlines - L10, 767, 757, 72S - http://www.departedflights.com/DL103182.html
*EA=Eastern Airlines - L10, AB3, 757, 72S, 727 - http://www.departedflights.com/EA050181.html
EZ=Evergreen International - DC8 - Summer 1980 only, SEA-PDX-OGG-PDX-SEA, Sa only, no local SEA-PDX-SEA
Execuair - PAG - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/ev1.htm
Far West Airlines - PAG (HIO-BFI) - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/far.htm
FL=Frontier Airlines - 73S, M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/FL040485.html
*HA=Hawaiian Airlines - L10 - http://www.departedflights.com/HA040587.html
*QX=Horizon Air - F27, F28, SWM, DH8, DH4, CRJ, 328 - http://www.departedflights.com/QX010586.html
*RW=Hughes Airwest - 72S, DC9, D9S, F27 - http://www.departedflights.com/RW070172.html
SI=Jet America - M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/SI060787.html
BF=Markair - 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/BF090793.html
*KN/SP=Morris Air (Sierra Pacific) - 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/KN080193.html
*NW=Northwest Orient / Northwest Airlines - 747, D10, 320, 757, 720, 72S, 727 - http://www.departedflights.com/NW080182.html
PNA=Pacific Northern Airlines - CON - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/pn59/pn59-1.jpg
PA=Pan American World Airways - 747, 707 - http://www.departedflights.com/PA042973.html
QQ=Reno Air - M80 - http://www.departedflights.com/QQ052297.html
*RC=Republic Airlines - 72S, DC9, D9S - http://www.departedflights.com/RC042681.html
K5=SeaPort (BFI) - Pilates, Caravan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1HXzWcH24M
OO=AS-Skywest - http://www.skywest.com/assets/Upload...Maps/AlaskaRouteSystemOCT12-01.jpg
OO=UAX-Skywest - http://www.skywest.com/assets/Upload...Maps/UnitedRouteSystemOCT12-01.jpg
SY=Sun Country Airlines - 738 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP1RqDdaxZY
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...irlineCode=SY&flightNumber=123
http://www.flightstats.com/go/Flight...irlineCode=SY&flightNumber=123
JK=Sunworld,-733, DC9 - http://www.departedflights.com/JK091487.html
*TW=Trans World Airlines - L10, M80, 767 - http://www.departedflights.com/TW070183.html
*OE=UAX-Westair - J31, EM2 - http://www.departedflights.com/PDX91p3.html
*NO=UAX-NPA - J31, EM2 - http://www.departedflights.com/PDX91p3.html
*UA=United Airlines - 747, D10, D8S, 727, 72S, 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/UA030283.html
US=USAir / US Airways - 733 - http://www.departedflights.com/US070189.html
West Coast Air Transport - Tri Motor Fokker - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/wcat30a.htm
West Coast Airlines - DC3 - http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/wc66/wc66-01.jpg
*WA=Western Airlines - 72S, 720, 707, 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/WA030181.html
W7=Western Pacific - 733 - http://www.departedflights.com/W7062997.html
*WC=Wien Air Alaska - 72S, 73S - http://www.departedflights.com/WC030284.html

* = Those I have flown on

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-21 05:54:41 and read 11095 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 27):
It's equally dumb to their LAX-SFO service. It's probably also to stick it to AS.

yep generally feeding International flights are dumb. It would, clearly, be much smarter to just fly LAX-SYD/HND/NRT with no feed. (oh and I won't even bring up the fact that LAX-SFO is one of LAs most important business routes, and the shuttle Delta is running has put them in much better place to win corp. traffic.....again, which is something airlines clearly shouldn't be going after   )

and stick it to AS? Dude stop looking at airlines like they are run by people in high school. (and FWIW, As we have seen with DL, when they "stick it" to someone, they use a lot more than 3x CR9s.) As hard as it is to believe, Delta is adding these flights for feed(controlled) for its Asia and SYD flights from both cities. Has nothing to do with "sticking it" to AS. jeesh.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: dbo861
Posted 2012-12-21 07:24:36 and read 10457 times.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 43):
Ive never seen it referred to anywhere as a CR5 except here, now, by you. Only as a CRJ or CR2 in some instances.

I used to see it all the time when I was at Comair. I believe their safety cards in seatback pockets even used to say CR5 on them instead of CRJ or CRJ-200. Heck..most of their CRJs were CRJ-100s.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAFETY-CARD-...Aeronautica_MJ&hash=item35c1e91d9e


[Edited 2012-12-21 07:28:09]

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2012-12-21 07:42:44 and read 10334 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 33):
High CASM RJs are profitable up against UA/WN/VX/AA mainline trying to kill each other? Unlikely.

Mav, you know better than looking at CASM alone. You've got to look at the RASM side, including the beyonds. (And CR9's are actually not particularly high CASM)

In the YE2Q12, Delta carried 205 paxs from SFO-LAX on a daily basis at a $84 average fare. Total revenue for one-way local market per day was $17,130. However, also onboard the aircraft were 240 connecting passengers at an average fare of $411. Total connecting revenue was $98,821. Total local and connecting revenue was $115,952 which equates to an average fare of $260.

You want to know why Delta is going to make $1.6B this year and WN & VX are struggling? The lack of international network connectivity is a big part of the answer. They rely on those low local fares. Its just gravy to DL, UA and AA.

This same story applies in LAX-LAS, LAX-OAK, LAX-PHX, LAX-SAN. You name it.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: cschleic
Posted 2012-12-21 07:48:47 and read 10279 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 40):
Even though AS has pretty deep connection ties with DL, a lot of AS flights are packed with AS passengers, which probably doesn't leave a whole lot of interline traffic. DL's new flights will alleviate that issue.

Too true. And probably an issue for DL premium traffic that's connecting to/from international.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-12-21 08:01:21 and read 10245 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 45):
Mav, you know better than looking at CASM alone. You've got to look at the RASM side, including the beyonds. (And CR9's are actually not particularly high CASM)

I'm sorry, I *refuse* to believe DL has a revenue premium on a few RJs between LAX, where its fares are on the low side to be charitable, and SFO where it has a minimal presence.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 45):
However, also onboard the aircraft were 240 connecting passengers at an average fare of $411.

Sure, probably all going to SYD, so prorated down to the local segment it's $2. I understand DL needs to be there but there's no way it's profitable on a segment basis.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2012-12-21 08:06:31 and read 10190 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):
Sure, probably all going to SYD, so prorated down to the local segment it's $2. I understand DL needs to be there but there's no way it's profitable on a segment basis.

4.6 paxs to SYD out 445 total.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-12-21 08:28:32 and read 10032 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 48):
4.6 paxs to SYD out 445 total.

SYD is probably the highest yield opportunity, otherwise what is DL taking that is unique to either airport? Day of week, seasonal CMHSFO traffic over LAX?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2012-12-21 08:41:10 and read 9933 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 49):
SYD is probably the highest yield opportunity, otherwise what is DL taking that is unique to either airport? Day of week, seasonal CMHSFO traffic over LAX?

It is a mix of dozens of online and interline markets. Doesn't need to be unique to either airport Both are capacity constrained facilities. Not every passenger from SFO is on a nonstop to their destination, and not all of them fly UA or VX. In fact many of them are Delta customers in other markets destined for SFO. Regardless, it works.

By the way, the data I'm looking at doesn't even include foreign-flag carried interline traffic. So no Virgin Australia, no AeroMexico and no SkyTeam carriers. That is all on top of the data I've shared.

If you'd rather not believe me, that is fine. But I can assure you that your instincts are off-base here.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MSPNWA
Posted 2012-12-21 09:12:24 and read 9684 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 28):
Yet LAX-SFO is profitable for Delta. Go figure.

If true, it's no doubt because of using a cheap contract carrier. Go figure.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 42):
yep generally feeding International flights are dumb.

When that feeding largely competes against yourself, it does appear crazy. This isn't to feed LAX flights, aside from the paltry amount this will bring to LAX-SYD.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 45):
You want to know why Delta is going to make $1.6B this year and WN & VX are struggling?
WN struggling? Wow, that's breaking news. You forgot one massive reason for DL--the largest one too. Neither WN or VX relies on cheap contract carriers to keep their entire business model operational. At least they can hold their heads higher when those lower profits come in.

[Edited 2012-12-21 09:13:30]

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: BDL757
Posted 2012-12-21 09:15:53 and read 9663 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 4):
107 flights for Delta at LAX.

Wow! I hadn't realized LAX was over the 100 flight per day mark. I'm hoping expansion in LA continues! I'm curious to see what the west coast strategy will be for DL and if more of a focus on SEA will effect LAX.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: mpdpilot
Posted 2012-12-21 09:48:17 and read 9338 times.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 51):
WN struggling? Wow, that's breaking news. You forgot one massive reason for DL--the largest one too. Neither WN or VX relies on cheap contract carriers to keep their entire business model operational. At least they can hold their heads higher when those lower profits come in.

How is using contract carriers such as Skywest a bad thing?

There seem to be a lot of people in this world that have issue with airlines operating routes with contract carriers, I guess I just don't understand the issue.

Personally I would almost rather fly on a CRJ900 over a 737, the whole gate checking my bag is quite convenient if you ask me.

I think Delta has the right idea with these markets start small and work your way up. SFO started with like 3-4 flights and they are up to 8 daily now. PHX started with 3 daily CRJ700 and they are up to 5 with a 900 thrown in there. LAS has some of their flights being operated with 319s this spring from all CRJs this fall.

Airlines can't start a route with 5 daily 738s. Though, this route does scream MD90 triangle route MSP-LAX-SEA-MSP...

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: jr
Posted 2012-12-21 10:03:06 and read 9225 times.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 52):
Wow! I hadn't realized LAX was over the 100 flight per day mark. I'm hoping expansion in LA continues! I'm curious to see what the west coast strategy will be for DL and if more of a focus on SEA will effect LA

I didn't either. I guess the NW merger had at least "something" to do with that. I just hope they'll add DFW to the list of connections at LAX sometime soon.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Goldenshield
Posted 2012-12-21 10:09:42 and read 9202 times.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 51):
If true, it's no doubt because of using a cheap contract carrier. Go figure.
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 51):
Neither WN or VX relies on cheap contract carriers to keep their entire business model operational.
Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 53):
How is using contract carriers such as Skywest a bad thing?

SkyWest may be cheaper than running a mainline Delta flight, but SkyWest isn't the cheapest contract carrier by any means.

[Edited 2012-12-21 10:20:47]

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-12-21 10:22:55 and read 9082 times.

I don't see what the big deal is. It's a codeshare, not a JV. Just like SLC being a hole in AS' SEA network, SEA is a hole for DL at LAX.

Even prior to the merger between DL and NW, you had both the carriers flying ATL-DTW for example.

Funny how people can jump to huge conclusions by just a simple little announcement

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-21 10:43:29 and read 8967 times.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 51):
You forgot one massive reason for DL--the largest one too. Neither WN or VX relies on cheap contract carriers to keep their entire business model operational.

Maybe it's actually because WN/VX business model doesn't call for flying to smaller cities which, for the most part, require flights by those "cheap" contract carriers.  

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: threeifbyair
Posted 2012-12-21 11:01:54 and read 8884 times.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 36):
A least on the Skywest birds I've flown, there aren't any extended overhead bins, even in First Class. Although, I've had great service on OO... Don't like those CRJ overhead bins, they're too tiny to be useful. Did DL/its regional partners only install extended overhead bins on some CR9s? I think all the Embraers feature those...

The E170/5 cabin is larger than the CR9 cabin. Bigger tube = bigger bins. My 22" rolling suitcase fits in an E-jet bin, but DL pink-tags it on the CR9.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 53):
Personally I would almost rather fly on a CRJ900 over a 737, the whole gate checking my bag is quite convenient if you ask me.

It is a problem when you are trying to make a connection and you're stuck on the jetway waiting for your bag. A full CR9 can easily have 50 pink-tagged bags.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2012-12-21 11:48:05 and read 8606 times.

There is a lot of discussion that this is aimed at connections. Connections and feed play a factor, but I think DL is going after O/D on one of the busiest routes out of SEA. SEA-LAX goes back and forth with SFO as the top O/D destination out of SEA. It's also in the top 10 destinations from LAX. There is a lot of O/D.

If DL wants to really content as a viable airline to capture the premium elite market in SEA and LAX, they need to serve the top O/D markets with their own metal and not rely on codeshares. DL wants elite members to be part of its mileage program, and not AS' program. They recognize elite benefits from AS, but they want to flyers loyal to DL and be medallion members on DL, not AS frequent flyers earning miles when the happen to fly DL.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-12-21 11:51:00 and read 8597 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 41):
According to my count 40-43 carriers, depending on how you count 'em up, below is my compiled list to the best of my abilities so far, As far as I'm concerned PDX-SEA is the ultimate tag route 747's to PAG's

That's a really impressive list. PSA never did SEA-PDX as a tag-on?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: PSA727LAX
Posted 2012-12-21 12:47:54 and read 8286 times.

I know this will date me a bit but I remember when DL was the "Official Airline of Disneyland" back in the day after US bought up PSA. I would love to see DL add flights to SMF. WN has really raised prices for flights out of here the past year or so with no end in site. Not sure if or when VX might become part fo the picture, though SMF is trying to land them.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2012-12-21 12:54:52 and read 8239 times.

Quoting PSA727LAX (Reply 61):

I know this will date me a bit but I remember when DL was the "Official Airline of Disneyland" back in the day after US bought up PSA. I would love to see DL add flights to SMF. WN has really raised prices for flights out of here the past year or so with no end in site. Not sure if or when VX might become part fo the picture, though SMF is trying to land them.

Where would DL fly to though? There's already 4x/day CR7 to LAX, 5x/day to SLC (2x 320, 1x CR7, 2x CRJ), 3x/day to MSP (2x 320, 1x 738) and 2x/day to ATL (both 738). They tried DTW and that didn't work. Not much more to expand to really.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MesaFlyGuy
Posted 2012-12-21 12:57:06 and read 8217 times.

Quoting PSA727LAX (Reply 61):

I've also noticed WN raising prices out of ISP too. I often find B6 and US much cheaper when I travel.

Overall, I wish DL the best of luck with this new route. It seems like it shouldn't be too hard to fill up the planes, especially with all the codeshares and connections.

One question I have though, is: are these flights all going to be operated by one aircraft? The timings seem to indicate that they will, but I am not positive.

Thanks!

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: PSA727LAX
Posted 2012-12-21 13:05:06 and read 8174 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 62):
Where would DL fly to though?

Well there is a lot of Capitol to Capitol activity between SMF & DCA/IAD. Also it would seem that SMF to LGA or JFK might be a possibilty.

I just hate what WN has done to SMF from a price point. Point of example, I am flying to SNA on the 26th SFO/SNA via WN because of the diff in $$$ SMF vs SFO to SNA. Yes, before anyone goes postal, they have added lots of destinations via their network. I guess until Sactown grows out of being just a Gov't town this is a mute point.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-21 13:07:57 and read 8182 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 56):
I don't see what the big deal is. It's a codeshare, not a JV. Just like SLC being a hole in AS' SEA network, SEA is a hole for DL at LAX.


Exactly i think Delta sees increased demand with its flights out of SEA to Asia. Just like how AS sees it has enough demand to support SLC on its own and they know Delta wont respond. Its the best time to enter SLC when Delta wants to keep building its relationship with Alaska and vice versa. Delta is entering LAX-SEA and AS is entering SEA-SLC its basically a trade.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-12-21 13:24:54 and read 8076 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 50):
By the way, the data I'm looking at doesn't even include foreign-flag carried interline traffic. So no Virgin Australia, no AeroMexico and no SkyTeam carriers. That is all on top of the data I've shared.

I don't think DL's online connections are particularly valuable let alone foreign flag/interline. But on a related note, why are we to believe this data when the same source shows the dismal JFKSFO/LAX fares DL gets? 
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 50):
If you'd rather not believe me, that is fine. But I can assure you that your instincts are off-base here.

I'd believe that LAXSFO contributes positively to the system, and that it's a route the network needs, but I can't believe it's profitable on a segment basis.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: MesaFlyGuy
Posted 2012-12-21 13:26:10 and read 8104 times.

Quoting PSA727LAX (Reply 64):

If DL starts NYC-SMF, it would presumably be to JFK, seeing as LGA has the perimeter rule, unless DL wanted to do a Sat only service, but that wouldn't be so good for this market, as it would probably attract a lot more business traffic.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-12-21 16:10:30 and read 7509 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 53):
I think Delta has the right idea with these markets start small and work your way up. SFO started with like 3-4 flights and they are up to 8 daily now.

DL used to fly this route every hour on the hour back in the 1990's with 737-200's or better. DL is not new on the SFO-LAX route.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-21 17:09:40 and read 7339 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 60):

That's a really impressive list. PSA never did SEA-PDX as a tag-on?

You would think so, but no PS did not ever offer a SEA-PDX tag. The list is a pet project I have been working on for a few months. The idea came to me after a thread about the SEA-PDX route being the ultimate tag route with the variety of airlines and aircraft used during the day.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 68):
DL used to fly this route every hour on the hour back in the 1990's with 737-200's or better. DL is not new on the SFO-LAX route.

I've personally flown 733, 72S & 757's on the SFO-LAX route on DL.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: BlueBus
Posted 2012-12-21 17:28:02 and read 7277 times.

Sorry to ask this, but is there a link to the schedule to confirm DL is going to start SEA-LAX flights?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-21 21:15:27 and read 6995 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 68):
DL used to fly this route every hour on the hour back in the 1990's with 737-200's or better. DL is not new on the SFO-LAX route.

As I recall, they were doing it with Tristars for awhile, too......probably in the 80s. I believe that LAX-SFO was a tag on from ATL or DFW.

Quoting BlueBus (Reply 70):
Sorry to ask this, but is there a link to the schedule to confirm DL is going to start SEA-LAX flights?

Probably Delta.com  

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-12-21 23:58:47 and read 6807 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 69):
I've personally flown 733, 72S & 757's on the SFO-LAX route on DL.
Quoting mayor (Reply 71):
As I recall, they were doing it with Tristars for awhile, too......probably in the 80s. I believe that LAX-SFO was a tag on from ATL or DFW.

I've flown the route on 73S, 757 and 763's. The only time I've flown on a DL 733, was from SAN-LAX.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-22 03:48:14 and read 6687 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 72):
The only time I've flown on a DL 733, was from SAN-LAX

I've have flown their old WA 733's, PDX-LAX, LAX-SFO, PDX-SLC, SLC-BOI

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: yellowtail
Posted 2012-12-22 12:29:55 and read 6313 times.

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 52):
Wow! I hadn't realized LAX was over the 100 flight per day mark. I'm hoping expansion in LA continues! I'm curious to see what the west coast strategy will be for DL and if more of a focus on SEA will effect LAX.

I dunno why I get the funny feeling that after they are done with NYC expansion works, they are going to turn their attention to an expansion of LAX. They have some international there already and so adding some flights to Canada, Central America and Northern S. America might just work. Most carriers have dual hub strategy to LatAmerica.....AA (MIA and DFW) UA (EWR and IAH and now a little IAD).....DL needs a second hub and SLC doesn't have enough O&D.

Yes, I know DL tried a LAX expansion before, but the mentality at HQ has changed and they are willing to work at building traffic versus jsut throwing the plane on the route and hoping it will fill itself.

Yes, yields might suck, but if you run the right equipment (as CM and TA do) you can make money.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-22 12:37:51 and read 6281 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 71):
Quoting BlueBus (Reply 70):
Sorry to ask this, but is there a link to the schedule to confirm DL is going to start SEA-LAX flights?

Probably Delta.com

When I just tried a random booking on delta.com for for mid-May, the only nonstops that appeared were those operated by AS.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2012-12-22 13:36:33 and read 6214 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 74):
When I just tried a random booking on delta.com for for mid-May, the only nonstops that appeared were those operated by AS.

I see the DL flights on SEA-LAX operated by Skywest, they are showing available and bookable on Delta.com.

They display at the bottom of the list when viewing by price, as for now the AS-codeshare flights are showing the lowest fare class (T), while the DL flights are almost $200 more expensive starting with the M fare class.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: klkla
Posted 2012-12-22 16:33:12 and read 6018 times.

I did a random search and found the flights. Interesting that coach was twice the price of Alaska with lowest available fare class being M. I wonder why that would be?

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Jano
Posted 2012-12-22 19:43:09 and read 5848 times.

Quoting klkla (Reply 76):
I did a random search and found the flights. Interesting that coach was twice the price of Alaska with lowest available fare class being M. I wonder why that would be?

My hunch, they wan to sell them as connections, e.g. SEA-LAX-SYD. It might be DL is not interested in moving people between SEA and LAX. Only from SEA to LAX and beyond and back.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2012-12-22 19:47:31 and read 5842 times.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 10):
Why would the codeshare go away? Can you not codeshare on a route that you both operate?

All the time. Delta's code is on AS's ATL-SEA flights.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: BDL757
Posted 2012-12-22 21:20:30 and read 5744 times.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 73):

I agree. While I'm sure we're not quite done in NYC, attention will be turned to the west coast. I know part of this year's flight plan was to 'develop west coast strategy' and I curious what's in store for LAX and now SEA plus the partnership with AS. Hopefully they will keep adding/trying new things in the L.A. market. I do know that facilities/gates are LAX are quite contrained.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-23 04:02:49 and read 5540 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 75):

They display at the bottom of the list when viewing by price, as for now the AS-codeshare flights are showing the lowest fare class (T), while the DL flights are almost $200 more expensive starting with the M fare class
Quoting Jano (Reply 77):

My hunch, they wan to sell them as connections, e.g. SEA-LAX-SYD. It might be DL is not interested in moving people between SEA and LAX. Only from SEA to LAX and beyond and back

I 100% agree, the times seem to be helping connections in both directions. Don't forget just a few months ago, DL & AS CEO's made a "big announcement" in SEA promoting a stronger relationship. DL can run passengers LAX-SEA-PEK or SEA-LAX-SYD, this is a good move for both carriers. My guess is, AS can better utilize a few planes on other routes, or maybe to announce more destinations, and the DL CR9's will help take care of the DL connecting passengers.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-23 08:26:00 and read 5356 times.

Funny thing is that back in the 70's and 80's NW flew that route with the 727. I remember being surprised at what a long flight it was.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: Deltal1011man
Posted 2012-12-23 09:09:28 and read 5295 times.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 50):
This isn't to feed LAX flights, aside from the paltry amount this will bring to LAX-SYD.

Its to feed LAX/SEA flights. period.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 50):
At least they can hold their heads higher when those lower profits come in.

hahahahaha woohooo burning money but damn they can hold their heads high.  

oh and WN doesn't have RJs in part because they can't. Thank SWAPA.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 54):
SkyWest may be cheaper than running a mainline Delta flight, but SkyWest isn't the cheapest contract carrier by any means.

this. OO and EV both are more of the high priced DCI carriers. Its not like its G7 or S5.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 61):

Where would DL fly to though? There's already 4x/day CR7 to LAX, 5x/day to SLC (2x 320, 1x CR7, 2x CRJ), 3x/day to MSP (2x 320, 1x 738) and 2x/day to ATL (both 738). They tried DTW and that didn't work. Not much more to expand to really.

maybe a JFK flight?

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 64):
Delta is entering LAX-SEA and AS is entering SEA-SLC its basically a trade.

this.

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 52):
I think Delta has the right idea with these markets start small and work your way up. SFO started with like 3-4 flights and they are up to 8 daily now. PHX started with 3 daily CRJ700 and they are up to 5 with a 900 thrown in there. LAS has some of their flights being operated with 319s this spring from all CRJs this fall.

SFO is 12x in the summer LAS is 9x daily with 4x 319 and 5x CR9(and FWIW SFO does see mainline off and on)

Quoting BlueBus (Reply 69):

should have been loaded Saturday. (to Delta.com)

Quoting mayor (Reply 70):
Probably Delta.com

should be

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 79):
Hopefully they will keep adding/trying new things in the L.A. market. I do know that facilities/gates are LAX are quite contrained.

working on that.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-23 10:55:21 and read 5172 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 70):
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 68):
DL used to fly this route every hour on the hour back in the 1990's with 737-200's or better. DL is not new on the SFO-LAX route.

As I recall, they were doing it with Tristars for awhile, too......probably in the 80s. I believe that LAX-SFO was a tag on from ATL or DFW.

Got this from Departed flights:


10-27-74 DL system timetable......

Flight 1117....JAX-ATL-LAX-SAN/Tristar
Flight 1119....LAX-SAN/Tristar
Plus 3xdaily DC-8s

12-15-79 DL system timetable

Flight 1165.....LAX-SFO (unable to determine if it's a tag or not)/Tristar


12-15-83 DL system timetable

Flight 183.....DTW-CVG-LAX-SFO/727
Flight 1143...MCO-LAX-SFO/Tristar

So, it appears that, even back then, DL had some business on the west coast, at least within California.

I'm thinking that some of these may have been non-rev specials rather than what would be booked by paying pax, at least before deregulation.

[Edited 2012-12-23 10:57:18]

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: SANFan
Posted 2012-12-23 12:57:37 and read 5039 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 83):
I'm thinking that some of these may have been non-rev specials rather than what would be booked by paying pax, at least before deregulation.

And aircraft positioning tags as well...

Remember back when PSA (and everyone else ) flew SAN-LAX for $6-$8 and TSA hadn't been invented yet, LOTS of people flew between the two cities rather than make the drive.

bb

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-23 15:13:25 and read 4911 times.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 84):
Quoting mayor (Reply 83):
I'm thinking that some of these may have been non-rev specials rather than what would be booked by paying pax, at least before deregulation.

And aircraft positioning tags as well...

I'm thinking, tags first.......non-rev specials second. For some reason, I don't believe that DL was allowed to carry any LAX boarding pax to SFO.....just thru and non-rev. After de-regulation ('83 schedule) they were allowed to sell seats out of LAX.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-23 15:54:08 and read 4844 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 83):
So, it appears that, even back then, DL had some business on the west coast, at least within California.

I'm thinking that some of these may have been non-rev specials rather than what would be booked by paying pax, at least before deregulation.

The intra-California routes in the schedules you posted aren't noted with any 'No Local Traffic' indications, leading me to believe that what's listed was salable. I don't recall DL flying between SFO and LAX prior to deregulation in 1978.

Back in the early 70's PA and TW had a nearly identical routing from the west coast to Europe: SFO-LAX-LHR-ORY. TW could sell tickets SFO-LAX, PA couldn't due to their federal prohibition on domestic flights between and within the lower 48 states. See PA's timetable with the [X] notice next to the days the SFO-LAX flights operate, indicating no local traffic here: http://www.departedflights.com/PA042973p32.html

I don't see any type of that indicator in the DL schedules for intra-California routes. All they would have needed was route approval from the CAB if a flight was an extension of an interstate flight, or the CPUC if a wholly intrastate flight.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-23 16:55:57 and read 4773 times.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 86):
The intra-California routes in the schedules you posted aren't noted with any 'No Local Traffic' indications, leading me to believe that what's listed was salable. I don't recall DL flying between SFO and LAX prior to deregulation in 1978.

They were, however flying LAX-SAN, according to the '73 schedules. Most of those flights appear to have originated out of state.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: PIEAvantiP180
Posted 2012-12-24 12:20:12 and read 4388 times.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 82):

Can you divulge any detail on what they might be working on in terms of gate space? I thought LAX was close or is maxed out on the number of gates the airport can have. What can DL do to get more gates?

Back on topic, glad to see DL expand from LAX. I wonder if they will attempt at relaunching DEN again?

[Edited 2012-12-24 12:24:06]

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: usflyguy
Posted 2012-12-24 12:29:11 and read 4366 times.

Quoting PSA727LAX (Reply 60):
WN has really raised prices for flights out of here the past year or so with no end in site.

That's what happens when an airport authority overspends on a new terminal. The airlines have to pay for it which is passed on to the consumers.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-25 02:47:46 and read 4019 times.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 88):
Back on topic, glad to see DL expand from LAX.

I wonder which it really is, an expansion from LAX or an expansion from SEA? After DL's "big announcement" in SEA a few months back, I can't help but think this is a way of connecting DL passengers from LAX to places they serve n/s from SEA instead of having to route those passengers via NRT. According to DL they plan to expand from SEA and AS was expected to be the feed for that, instead we see DL is going to help make a push towards filling the SEA outbound aircraft, LAX-SEA-PVG, I bet we may see a real hub starting for DL at SEA, and this may be a good example of what we may be seeing in the future as things progress.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: BA
Posted 2012-12-25 08:46:55 and read 3877 times.

The Port of Seattle needs to address the capacity issues of processing international arrivals in the South Satellite at Sea-Tac Airport soon if they want to lure further international expansion from Delta.

I know it's been mentioned that Delta is considering a London flight and possibly Hong Kong.

They've got a "temporary fix" in the works, but as far as I know, they still haven't made a decision on a long term plan to build an FIS facility in Concourse A or not.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-12-25 11:14:44 and read 3719 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 90):
I wonder which it really is, an expansion from LAX or an expansion from SEA? After DL's "big announcement" in SEA a few months back, I can't help but think this is a way of connecting DL passengers from LAX to places they serve n/s from SEA instead of having to route those passengers via NRT. According to DL they plan to expand from SEA and AS was expected to be the feed for that, instead we see DL is going to help make a push towards filling the SEA outbound aircraft, LAX-SEA-PVG, I bet we may see a real hub starting for DL at SEA, and this may be a good example of what we may be seeing in the future as things progress.

I wonder if DL passengers, especially elite FF passengers, are having problems with getting good seats on AS, despite the number of flights. As I mentioned in an earlier response, AS FF and followers are probably filling the vast majority of the AS flights. DL flights allow not be full of AS passengers.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: FlyASAGuy2005
Posted 2012-12-25 13:56:00 and read 3588 times.

Quoting PSA727LAX (Reply 63):
Also it would seem that SMF to LGA or JFK might be a possibilty.



I don't see that one happening. If it's barely hanging on from ATL where the connection opportunities is much more vast, I don't see it from JFK. There's really nothing unique to JFK vs the other hubs other than it's New York. That's an awfully long flight for the fares DL would have to charge to attract business.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 92):
I wonder if DL passengers, especially elite FF passengers, are having problems with getting good seats on AS, despite the number of flights. As I mentioned in an earlier response, AS FF and followers are probably filling the vast majority of the AS flights. DL flights allow not be full of AS passengers.



Another very good point. DL FFs will ride behind AS MVPs. These days, upgrades are very hard to come by. I know it's pretty hard for MVPs on Delta on some of the heavier routes...with Diamonds not getting an upgrade and all.

Topic: RE: Delta Adding LAX-SEA
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-26 06:33:58 and read 3236 times.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 92):

I wonder if DL passengers, especially elite FF passengers, are having problems with getting good seats on AS, despite the number of flights. As I mentioned in an earlier response, AS FF and followers are probably filling the vast majority of the AS flights. DL flights allow not be full of AS passengers

I think you are correct, this is the same reason AS will be flying to SLC next Spring. DL will not be vying for the local O/D market flying SEA-LAX-SEA. I do wonder if it's the LAX or SEA market, or maybe both, that is driving this route addition?


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