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Topic: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: commavia
Posted 2012-12-20 14:49:47 and read 15747 times.

Following the announcement in late October of four new international routes (DFW-ICN, DFW-LIM, JFK-DUB, ORD-DUS), and the announcement earlier this week of DFW-BOG and MIA-POA/CWB next year, AA apparently announced internally today that it is also planning to expand further next year in four additional new domestic and international markets, including:

LAX-RDU (daily from 4/2/13)
JFK-IAH (daily from 4/2/13)
MIA-FDF (Sat from 4/6/13)
MIA-PTP (Sat from 4/6/13)

Some thoughts:

LAX-RDU is surprising only in so much as AA has shown shrinking attention to RDU in recent years with the pulldown of most RDU-Northeast capacity. Nonetheless, I am intrigued to see that AA is going to wade into the LAX-RDU nonstop market. The LAX end will obviously provide a good amount of feed, and AA does still have a strong corporate presence at the RDU end. Seems like a route that might best be served long-term via the new A319s. I think if AA were to simply restart RDU-BOS with a few day CR7s, they would have an extremely compelling value prop for many RDU-area corporate customers. All that being said, I will be interested to see if this makes it.

JFK-IAH is interesting - I suspect it will be timed for Europe connections at JFK. Much of the premium local traffic will of course continue to use United/Delta at LGA. This will mark the first time AA has flown from NYC (metro) to HOU (metro) since the LGA-HOU flights were discontinued (I think back around 2004). This, too, I will be interested to follow - will be interested to see if this survives.

MIA-FDF/PTP is a no-brainer that I and many others have long predicted. These markets are losing their Eagle flights to SJU when the Eagle SJU operation ends in April, and they can both easily handle (operationally) a nonstop link to MIA. I suspect both will likely see, in due time, increased frequency from just 1x weekly. Unlike the first two, these two, personally, I don't think will have any trouble making it.

[Edited 2012-12-20 14:53:48]

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-20 15:11:40 and read 15628 times.

Lets see how DL does with AA on the route and vice versa. Personally i think DL cares less about flying this route and AA will have more patience even though DL has been on it for a while and has alot of elites in RDU.

AA commiting to daily will probably win almost all the real heavy frequent flyers on the route immediately. What is the timing for AA? Personally i think LAX-RDU is a route they should already be flying. AA really should be able to kick Delta off this route if they do a non red eye eastbound flight to get the business travellers that combined with daily should be enough to kick Delta off. The real frequent flyers on the route will convert and i dont think it will be as attractive to DL but i thought that flight really fills in the summer but its probably gonna lower yields now.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-20 15:20:51 and read 15525 times.

There's a lot more coming than just this. Lot's of talk of a major domestic route network shake-up starting in the spring which will see two things:

1) Significant connecting the dots between current spokes that only have service to one hub (i.e. Ottawa and Buffalo).
2) Opening/reopening smaller spokes that other majors are at (i.e. Melbourne, Florida and Albany).

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2012-12-20 15:22:36 and read 15496 times.

This should be interesting, RDU.LAX.... I think it will take 1 of 3 routes.. Either AA will be killer on this route and it provides good feed for their PAC ops... Either AA will get better competition from DL who will make their flight daily at better times.. Or Either AA will get on the route to decide it doesn't match their cornerstone strategy and backs out after the summer season or 1 year is over.. Time will tell...

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cv880
Posted 2012-12-20 15:24:20 and read 15455 times.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
LAX-RDU (daily from 4/2/13)

Makes sense, should have been there long ago. Where are all the RDU Fanboys?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-12-20 15:32:31 and read 15383 times.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
it provides good feed for their PAC ops...

The RDU sked doesn't really connect to much beyond LAX, particularly international flying, so it'll have to work primarily on the local, low yield market.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
MIA-FDF (Sat from 4/6/13)
MIA-PTP (Sat from 4/6/13)

It'll be interesting to see how these pan out--they're some of the very rare Caribbean/Latin destinations that would work better out of ATL than MIA because of the superior feed, and they didn't work out of ATL. Great fares though, just tiny markets.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
JFK-IAH (daily from 4/2/13)

So many carriers see opportunity in IAH, except for the hub carrier 

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2012-12-20 15:36:09 and read 15335 times.

This is great seeing AA actually expanding and being in a position to expand, they really seem to be on a role!

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
LAX-RDU (daily from 4/2/13)

I imagine AA will probably knock DL off the route as well. Even though they've cut back almost continuously at RDU for years, they still have a very loyal frequent flier and corporate base in the region with their RDU-LHR flight and all.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
JFK-IAH (daily from 4/2/13)

Will this be with mainline or a CRJ?

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
MIA-FDF (Sat from 4/6/13)
MIA-PTP (Sat from 4/6/13)

Does AF still operate these routes from MIA or am I off base here?

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
There's a lot more coming than just this. Lot's of talk of a major domestic route network shake-up starting in the spring which will see two things:

Interesting, I'll be anxious to see what's in store. Any mention of up-gauging from regional to mainline? Selfishly I would love to see AA mainline return to CVG-DFW.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-20 16:16:45 and read 15073 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
It'll be interesting to see how these pan out--they're some of the very rare Caribbean/Latin destinations that would work better out of ATL than MIA because of the superior feed, and they didn't work out of ATL.

But what connections does Atlanta have that make it so superior? All they need is D.C., New York, Montreal and Boston. And Atlanta bypasses the Miami market entirely. Plus AA is already well established here. DL wasn't, and didn't make it a year even.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 6):
Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
MIA-FDF (Sat from 4/6/13)
MIA-PTP (Sat from 4/6/13)

Does AF still operate these routes from MIA or am I off base here?

Air France flies MIA-PAP-PTP daily.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: TWA902fly
Posted 2012-12-20 16:34:48 and read 14938 times.

Along with those international routes AA announced 4 domestic routes back in October - to sum it up -

ORD-COU
DFW-COU
DFW-FAR
DFW-BPT
ORD-DUS
DFW-LIM
DFW-ICN
DFW-BOG
MIA-CWB/POA
JFK-DUB
MIA-FDF
MIA-PTP
JFK-IAH
LAX-RDU

not a bad expansion...

I'd be most concerned about the longevity of LAX-RDU, however.

'902

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: deltairlines
Posted 2012-12-20 16:46:35 and read 14864 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
1) Significant connecting the dots between current spokes that only have service to one hub (i.e. Ottawa and Buffalo).

Makes some semblance of sense, especially with the new large RJs forthcoming, as well as the A319s. Only issue I see with this is some of the constraints at ORD/JFK/LGA. Doing this though would allow for better connectivity through the network though.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
2) Opening/reopening smaller spokes that other majors are at (i.e. Melbourne, Florida and Albany).

Makes a ton of sense. MLB/DAB make sense from the Florida/MIA hub end; my guess is that we'd see some return into the Northeast? You mention ALB as a possibility - I wouldn't be shocked to see cities like PWM, PVD, etc. return, where the other majors are getting some mainline metal in there each day.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):
But what connections does Atlanta have that make it so superior? All they need is D.C., New York, Montreal and Boston. And Atlanta bypasses the Miami market entirely. Plus AA is already well established here. DL wasn't, and didn't make it a year even.

Bingo. Ethnic Carib traffic lives and dies off of those four cities and Miami. ATL has very little of that type of traffic on an O&D basis. AA's got all of those cities having good flow to Miami plus the local base (which due to no need to prorate the traffic, drives up yields immensely).

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-20 17:05:21 and read 14710 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 9):
Bingo. Ethnic Carib traffic lives and dies off of those four cities and Miami. ATL has very little of that type of traffic on an O&D basis. AA's got all of those cities having good flow to Miami plus the local base (which due to no need to prorate the traffic, drives up yields immensely).

FDF and PTP aren't ethnic markets. It's tourism. But it's super high-end, so the fares are awesome. But the market is tiny - they are only around 15 PDEW each from Miami; and a tad bit less from NYC.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: drerx7
Posted 2012-12-20 17:08:04 and read 14673 times.

What's the aircraft on these routes?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: miaami
Posted 2012-12-20 17:58:34 and read 14447 times.

offical news release from AA
http://www.aa.com/i18n/urls/newdesti...on=DirectURL&title=newdestinations

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-20 18:06:43 and read 14377 times.

Looks like the RTP businesses finally got their voices heard. They've been trying to get a better timed daily LAX flight for a long time. This is a big loss for DL. DL does provide better connections from RDU because of the focus city but you'd be surprised at how fast people around here will jump programs to the airline that better suits the area.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: laca773
Posted 2012-12-20 18:35:30 and read 14209 times.

It's clear AA will be moving beyond the long time conservative stance they have taken opening new markets.

I will be interested in seeing if AA flies the A319 on the LAX-RDU route. That's probaby the best size a/c for this market.
It will be interesting to see if DL increases the frequency on their LAX-RDU service to daily and re-time it to make it more attractive to corporate clients they have in RDU having a focus city there. I believe they fly this with a A320 a big portion of the time or is it, a 73H?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: USAirALB
Posted 2012-12-20 18:56:44 and read 14088 times.

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 9):
You mention ALB as a possibility - I wouldn't be shocked to see cities like PWM, PVD, etc. return, where the other majors are getting some mainline metal in there each day.

After over 4 years, I still cannot believe AA cut PVD and ALB, considering US,UA,and DL all fly mainline into these cities, yet somehow AA could not make them work. I can definitely see both PVD and ALB coming back online.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: AVENSAB727
Posted 2012-12-20 19:03:52 and read 14055 times.

I wonder what plane will fly JFK-IAH!

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: thegreatRDU
Posted 2012-12-20 19:17:23 and read 13939 times.

This is perfect!! Let me guess the a/c is a 737-800?

Now all we need is that DL CDG flight!!   

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: miaami
Posted 2012-12-20 19:28:01 and read 13879 times.

On the Miami domestic side, would like to see the addition of:
MIA-SAN
MIA-AUS
MIA-MCI
MIA-BUF
MIA-MKE
MIA-PWM

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: GRUIAD
Posted 2012-12-20 19:46:49 and read 13763 times.

LAX-RDU is added before SAN-MIA ... Odd

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: Noise
Posted 2012-12-20 19:51:23 and read 13741 times.

RDU sounds great to me! Will definitely make flying a lot more convenient for me. What aircraft will be flying the route??

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: AAIL86
Posted 2012-12-20 19:53:58 and read 13735 times.

Quoting Noise (Reply 20):
RDU sounds great to me! Will definitely make flying a lot more convenient for me. What aircraft will be flying the route??

Probably the 738 at first. Sounds like a great 2x/3x A319 route in the future....

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: panam330
Posted 2012-12-20 20:21:30 and read 13613 times.

I'd love to see SYR-DFW return. It'd be massively convenient, personally.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: spiritair97
Posted 2012-12-20 20:26:02 and read 13558 times.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 16):

My guess is a 737-800. I wonder what the frequency will be? It says daily, but does that mean A daily flight, or daily flightS on the route. It is hard that I couldn't book it on AA's website, so I couldn't see.

[Edited 2012-12-20 20:26:48]

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: AFCDGPTP
Posted 2012-12-20 20:35:31 and read 13464 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
It'll be interesting to see how these pan out--they're some of the very rare Caribbean/Latin destinations that would work better out of ATL than MIA because of the superior feed, and they didn't work out of ATL. Great fares though, just tiny markets.

MIA will work much better than ATL; most people from Guadeloupe and Martinique when travel to the U.S,their final destination is MIA to go shoppping, take a cruise or visit friends then MCO and NYC would be the other destinations they will go to

Quoting panam330 (Reply 22):
Does AF still operate these routes from MIA or am I off base here?

AF flights from PTP & FDF arrive in MIA in the evening, so same day connections are not really possible

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-20 21:54:57 and read 13282 times.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 23):
My guess is a 737-800. I wonder what the frequency will be? It says daily, but does that mean A daily flight, or daily flightS on the route. It is hard that I couldn't book it on AA's website, so I couldn't see
Quoting miaami (Reply 18):

Won't be bookable until the 23rd...

This is perfect!! Let me guess the a/c is a 737-800?

Now all we need is that DL CDG flight!!  

LOL. As much demand as there may be, along with FRA, there won't be any additional TATL routes from RDU as long as AA maintains somewhat a hold of corporate contracts and uses that to their advantage.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: Byrdluvs747
Posted 2012-12-20 22:00:14 and read 13278 times.

Just some thoughts.

I'm glad AA is filling in the holes, but we really need to hear about more intl routes. That said, it would be great if AA maintained LAX-RDU in addition to US' LAX-CLT post any AA-US merger.

If there is to be no merger, then AA needs to up their game on the LAX-PHX route, and add a couple of mainline flights.

Also, if AA can operate LAX-IAD alongside UA, can AA try LAX-ATL without feed on the ATL side? What about jumping back into JFK-ATL?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: MaverickM11
Posted 2012-12-20 22:00:32 and read 13502 times.

Quoting AFCDGPTP (Reply 24):

MIA will work much better than ATL

The market is so small it's not going to make a huge difference either way, though MIA has the advantage.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):

But what connections does Atlanta have that make it so superior?

ATL has much more volume--it's around 3x as big as MIA in terms of departures. Local market aside, connection opportunities are going to be maximized through a larger hub, and there's none larger than ATL.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2012-12-21 03:43:58 and read 12498 times.

I'm happy to see RDU connected to all AA cornerstone markets and I hope DL moves their LAX flight to daily. However, there are still a couple of domestic destinations that I would like to see added by airlines at RDU...

MSY - WN 737 or DL CR9
AUS - B6 E90 or WN 737
SEA - AS 737
SJU - B6 320 or DL 319
MCI - WN 737 or DL CR7
SAN - AS 737 or WN 737
JAX - DL CR7 or WN 737

I'm sure there are others but some additional non stops are highly needed..

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: Buddys747
Posted 2012-12-21 03:50:03 and read 12457 times.

I'd like to see MDT-DFW return. The route was dropped in late 2008 I believe when they temporary pulled out of Harrisburg. They have since returned with MDT-ORD. I'm sure they have bigger fish to fry though.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: FlyPIJets
Posted 2012-12-21 05:47:59 and read 11886 times.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 28):
MSY - WN 737 or DL CR9

this! right!?!

AA on a LAX n/s hmmmm - gotta say - AA has a large loyal frequent flyer base at RDU, good to see AA showing RDU some routage. Now, will this work out? UA n/s SFO - and DL still in the LAX n/s market.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: 2travel2know2
Posted 2012-12-21 06:04:35 and read 11756 times.

AA already flew DFW-LIM, good to see that route return, it's going to be LATAM code-share?
Are PTP and FDF both get dedicated flights? If AA is testing the market, wouldn't be better to 1st fly MIA-FDF-PTP-MIA Saturday and Sundays and see how it performes?
With those Euros, people from PTP and FDF may find flying non-stop to MIA to go shopping quite appealing.
I've seen Royal Caribbean Cruises feature Guadelupe as a home-port, perhaps AA to PTP has something to do with that.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: tsnamm
Posted 2012-12-21 06:25:53 and read 11618 times.

I wonder if UA will respond to the JFK/IAH service...look at the over reaction to EWR being announce by VX...might be interesting....

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2012-12-21 07:04:24 and read 11386 times.

Unfortunately in the same route announcement AA said they're ending one of the five daily JFK-LHR flights on March 30. I say unfortunate for the crews that fly it, but clearly AA is still well served in the market with four dailies on their own metal, plus up to eight more on JV partner BA. They did say, however, two of the remaining flights will switch to the 777-300ER. Flight 100 switches on March 15 (which we already knew), and 138 on May 9.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-21 07:08:43 and read 11356 times.

Could the new LAX-RDU service be timed to allow connections for RDU-LHR? With new 773s coming in what's the possibility of upgrading the route again to the 772? I could see it being twice daily service. AM departure for the businesses and a PM departure for pax connecting from LHR and vise versa.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: miaami
Posted 2012-12-21 07:15:05 and read 11316 times.

It will be interesting to see where the BOS and JFK to LHR slots end up. This also free's up a 777-200 that could be used elsewhere. Sounds as though there are more to come on route announcements.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2012-12-21 07:23:26 and read 11244 times.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 6):
I imagine AA will probably knock DL off the route as well. Even though they've cut back almost continuously at RDU for years, they still have a very loyal frequent flier and corporate base in the region with their RDU-LHR flight and all.

Don't count on it.

The "frequent flyer base" argument is something I've always found silly. That loyalty is only good as your most recent status year. If AA has been cutting back, and you've had to find another carrier, then your loyalty to AA is as past tense as AA's RDU dominance is. Same applies to the corporates.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 14):
I will be interested in seeing if AA flies the A319 on the LAX-RDU route. That's probaby the best size a/c for this market.
It will be interesting to see if DL increases the frequency on their LAX-RDU service to daily and re-time it to make it more attractive to corporate clients they have in RDU having a focus city there. I believe they fly this with a A320 a big portion of the time or is it, a 73H?

I'm afraid that anyone expecting Delta to fold up in the RDU-LAX market due to this doesn't really know Delta very well. It is far more likely you'll see them increase capacity and hunker down for a fight. They've made a huge investment in RDU over a the past couple of years while AA has shrunk to a shadow of its former self. They aren't going to lose ground to AA in this market.

Some perspective from the U.S. DOT DB1B O&D Date for YE 2Q12:

RDU Passenger Share
DL 26%
WN 21%
US 16%
AA 16%

RDU Revenue Share
DL 25%
AA 18%
WN 15%
US 14%

They may have a LHR flight still, but this isn't AA's market anymore. Expect a fight.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-21 07:29:25 and read 11202 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
They may have a LHR flight still, but this isn't AA's market anymore. Expect a fight.

I wouldnt call RDU DL's market or anyone elses. The market share is spread pretty evenly among several carriers.

Its not exactly ATL, CLT, IAH, or DFW.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cv880
Posted 2012-12-21 07:44:07 and read 11046 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 34):
Could the new LAX-RDU service be timed to allow connections for RDU-LHR? With new 773s coming in what's the possibility of upgrading the route again to the 772? I could see it being twice daily service. AM departure for the businesses and a PM departure for pax connecting from LHR and vise versa.

Be happy with the recently added services by AA/UA/DL to the west coast. RDU will be lucky to keep what it has to LHR esp if US/AA get married.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2012-12-21 07:47:21 and read 11020 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 37):
I wouldnt call RDU DL's market or anyone elses. The market share is spread pretty evenly among several carriers.

Its not exactly ATL, CLT, IAH, or DFW.

Did I?

What I am saying is that Delta believes it is their market. That's what is going to matter.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-21 07:50:44 and read 10991 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 34):
Could the new LAX-RDU service be timed to allow connections for RDU-LHR? With new 773s coming in what's the possibility of upgrading the route again to the 772? I could see it being twice daily service

Sorry i don't see them going larger than a 767 or more than once daily. It might be timed to allow for that possibly but LAX has its own N/S flight so its not be a major boost or something that. Certainly no double daily or 777 is needed.

If AA is able to kick Delta off i wonder if they would consider LAX-CMH and try to get them off that run as well which Delta operatees "seasonal" as well

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-21 08:08:43 and read 10853 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 39):
What I am saying is that Delta believes it is their market. That's what is going to matter.

Then they believe wrong. Its not a market that is dominated by one carrier.

When a carrier has 70% or better marketshare, then its their market. 26%? No way.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-12-21 08:18:49 and read 10777 times.

Quoting panam330 (Reply 22):

I'd love to see SYR-DFW return. It'd be massively convenient, personally.

Me too. I remember when DFW had access to a variety of the "corner" markets in the Northeast: ROC, SYR, BUF, PVD, etc. I hope they come back!

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
ATL has much more volume--it's around 3x as big as MIA in terms of departures. Local market aside, connection opportunities are going to be maximized through a larger hub, and there's none larger than ATL.

That's great. It doesn't necessarily means the yields are higher. Bigger is not always better, but it's the card that the ATL fanboys love to play.   

I know, I'm stoking the fire there.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 31):
AA already flew DFW-LIM, good to see that route return, it's going to be LATAM code-share?

It hasn't been announced yet, but I am almost certain that will inevitably take place. Part of the impetus for the route returning in general has to do with the LAN hub at the Lima end, so leveraging that partnership is a pretty critical element to its future success.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 33):
Unfortunately in the same route announcement AA said they're ending one of the five daily JFK-LHR flights on March 30. I say unfortunate for the crews that fly it, but clearly AA is still well served in the market with four dailies on their own metal, plus up to eight more on JV partner BA. They did say, however, two of the remaining flights will switch to the 777-300ER. Flight 100 switches on March 15 (which we already knew), and 138 on May 9.

Meh. Shakeups on the BOS/JFK-LHR market between AA and BA are becoming the norm. At the end of the day, it's a mere drop in the bucket to me.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 37):
I wouldnt call RDU DL's market or anyone elses. The market share is spread pretty evenly among several carriers.

I'm seeing

DL: 25.8%
WN: 24.2%
AA: 16.6%
US: 14.6%
UA: 10.2%

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
They've made a huge investment in RDU over a the past couple of years while AA has shrunk to a shadow of its former self.

Wait, whatever happened to the DL RDU-CDG flight? Am I missing something?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2012-12-21 08:27:26 and read 10715 times.

RDU-CDG got cancelled because AA said that if DL got subsidies, they would pull the LHR flight. Since AA offered better connecting opportunities via BA at LHR.. RTRP backed down. Then, I believe, DL made a push and has continued to push for the corporate contracts for the LHR flight so they can get offer international service with guarantees.. I believe they were looking to start the LHR and CDG flights if they could. Heard AA is not trying to let go and has a x term contract. Now, if US and AA merge.. And now that DL has a VX tie... It could be interesting what the future holds... Could be good 787 routes..

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-21 08:30:48 and read 10686 times.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 43):
RDU-CDG got cancelled because AA said that if DL got subsidies, they would pull the LHR flight. Since AA offered better connecting opportunities via BA at LHR.. RTRP backed down. Then, I believe, DL made a push and has continued to push for the corporate contracts for the LHR flight so they can get offer international service with guarantees.. I believe they were looking to start the LHR and CDG flights if they could. Heard AA is not trying to let go and has a x term contract. Now, if US and AA merge.. And now that DL has a VX tie... It could be interesting what the future holds... Could be good 787 routes..

RDU-CDG is nowhere near as large as RDU-LHR which is North Carolina's largest European O&D market. RDU-LHR is almost 100 passengers a day.

If they have a choice, LHR needs to be served, not CDG.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2012-12-21 08:34:04 and read 10629 times.

Much like, LHR... If RTRP is willing to pay for it.. Why wouldn't DL want to fly it. And with another mega hub on the other end, it should be able to survive.. And with any route.. It can grow and become more seasoned...

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-21 08:36:35 and read 10610 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 40):

Maybe you've forgotten that this route was operated by the 777 for many years...

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: ryanrap1
Posted 2012-12-21 08:51:58 and read 10524 times.

What kind of aircraft will be used to IAH

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: incitatus
Posted 2012-12-21 09:05:08 and read 10426 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
Some perspective from the U.S. DOT DB1B O&D Date for YE 2Q12:

RDU Passenger Share
DL 26%
WN 21%
US 16%
AA 16%

RDU Revenue Share
DL 25%
AA 18%
WN 15%
US 14%

This is a questionable argument if the other side of the route (LAX) is not considered.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: N1120A
Posted 2012-12-21 09:20:08 and read 10322 times.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
LAX-RDU (daily from 4/2/13)

Would have been useful to me if they had started flying this earlier this week.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
LAX-RDU is surprising only in so much as AA has shown shrinking attention to RDU in recent years with the pulldown of most RDU-Northeast capacity. Nonetheless, I am intrigued to see that AA is going to wade into the LAX-RDU nonstop market.

Its a route that makes tons of sense and has always been strangely absent.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
The LAX end will obviously provide a good amount of feed, and AA does still have a strong corporate presence at the RDU end.

Combine the FF loyalty on each end and the Asia/Pacific-bound connectivity and it should be a winner.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
1) Significant connecting the dots between current spokes that only have service to one hub (i.e. Ottawa and Buffalo).

BUF would be great. Its crazy that BUF only has ORD service now.

Quoting GRUIAD (Reply 19):
LAX-RDU is added before SAN-MIA ... Odd

Not really. LAX is a behemoth market.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 28):
SAN - AS 737 or WN 737

Why would AS do that?

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 34):

Could the new LAX-RDU service be timed to allow connections for RDU-LHR?

I don't see why. LAX-LHR already has its own flight and there is plenty of connectivity elsewhere.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-21 09:20:17 and read 10376 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
ATL has much more volume--it's around 3x as big as MIA in terms of departures. Local market aside, connection opportunities are going to be maximized through a larger hub, and there's none larger than ATL.

I get that, but this isn't Cancun nor Punta Cana. It's the French Caribbean. The market is tiny, as you know. MIA is the largest to both, but barely eekes out a dozen PDEW. What does volume matter?

If this one flight connects well to/from BOS, YUL, DCA, and LGA, as it probably will, what does it matter that ATL can also connect the flight to GSP, MKE and MCI?

MIA has significant volume to/from the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic/Canada and within Florida, which is all this flight needs.

Plus, there is the fact that AA is already long-established at both airports.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: tommy767
Posted 2012-12-21 09:21:23 and read 10350 times.

I feel LAX-RDU is oh you know, about 5 years late. Either way good for AA to fly it. I wonder what strides DL will go through to protect their turf on this route.

Also does AA have a crew base in RDU or will this flight be staffed by LAX folks?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-21 09:24:57 and read 10316 times.

I feel LAX-RDU is oh you know, about 5 years late. Either way good for AA to fly it. I wonder what strides DL will go through to protect their turf on this route.

Also does AA have a crew base in RDU or will this flight be staffed by LAX folks?


RDU has a crew base for the LHR flight only.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: vin2basketball
Posted 2012-12-21 09:27:30 and read 10313 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 39):
Did I?

What I am saying is that Delta believes it is their market. That's what is going to matter.
Quoting incitatus (Reply 48):

This is a questionable argument if the other side of the route (LAX) is not considered.

Undoubtedly Delta believes that it is their market, but in terms of high yielding O&D passengers, the FF share held by AA in RDU is still very strong.

However, as for the route today per the DOT Q2 figures

Market size: 478 pax PDEW
Avg. Fare: $289
Avg Yield: 12.90 cents

DL market share: 27% (129 pax PDEW)
DL avg fare: $291
DL yield: 13.00 cents

Delta isn't blowing the market away here even with the only nonstop, and there are certainly at least a few travelers who would prefer an AA nonstop (esp daily) so performance wise it is likely to go down. 13 cents isn't awful but it is by no stretch of the imagination a home run.

Remember DL does offer some connections on the LAX end (the best connex to SYD, NRT) by my count, as well as SAN, and Hawaii stuff, but again that's mostly low yield. So I'd say it's 50/50 as to whether DL keeps LAX-RDU around - if economic conditions turn around that would be a boost.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-21 09:37:37 and read 10264 times.

Exactly what "turf" is Delta protecting? Delta has absolutely failed to maintain daily, year-round service between LAX and RDU, with a redeye westbound that premium passengers hate. It's quite clear it considers the route an afterthought - simply usage of an otherwise parked plane during the high season.

Whether or not AA succeeds remains to be seen, but what tiny advantage DL has in the RDU market is blown away by the huge advantage AA has over DL in the much larger LAX market.

AA is on the verge of emerging from bankrtupcy with the industry's best costs. While I don't expect deviation from the cornerstone strategy, I do expect more of what is happening in Raleigh and Houston: connecting major domestic airports to all five hubs.

I would not be surprised to see LAXATL, LAXPHL, MIASAN, MIAAUS and PHXJFK in 2013.

[Edited 2012-12-21 09:48:19]

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: LONGisland89
Posted 2012-12-21 09:38:54 and read 10249 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 52):
RDU has a crew base for the LHR flight only.

Unless things have changed very recently, AA does not have a crew base at RDU and the LHR flight is operated by DFW crews. They work DFW-LHR-RDU-LHR-DFW.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: casinterest
Posted 2012-12-21 09:42:18 and read 10216 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 52):
I feel LAX-RDU is oh you know, about 5 years late. Either way good for AA to fly it. I wonder what strides DL will go through to protect their turf on this route.
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 43):
And now that DL has a VX tie... It could be interesting what the future holds... Could be good 787 routes..

This is what I wonder. With DL and the VX tie, and knowing that DL wanted to do CDG, I expect a turf battle heating up over the next 5 years. RDU is a market that continues to grow, and 757's to ATL, and A321's to CLT are not the way to effectively distribute traffic to all markets.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
I think if AA were to simply restart RDU-BOS with a few day CR7s,

Don't they already get this with B6 ?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: YYZBound
Posted 2012-12-21 09:45:01 and read 10233 times.

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 55):

AA DOES have a crew base in RDU, that is strictly for the LHR flight. It's about 75 flight attendants I believe

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: qqflyboy
Posted 2012-12-21 10:01:00 and read 10110 times.

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 55):

I can assure you AA has a flight attendant crew base at RDU. As others have stated it covers the LHR flight only. It will be interesting to see how the base evolves going forward as AA plans to eventually combine domestic and international flight attendant rosters. This would allow AA to grow the RDU crew base if they so desired and cover domestic trips, like RDU-LAX. Such a move would greatly increase my chances of being based in Raleigh, since the base is so small now since it is very senior.

The routing you mentioned is true, however, of the pilots.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: jetlanta
Posted 2012-12-21 10:09:43 and read 10046 times.

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 53):
Remember DL does offer some connections on the LAX end (the best connex to SYD, NRT) by my count, as well as SAN, and Hawaii stuff, but again that's mostly low yield. So I'd say it's 50/50 as to whether DL keeps LAX-RDU around - if economic conditions turn around that would be a boost.

Delta will keep it around precisely because AA is launching it. I'm not sure why anyone will be surprised by that.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 54):
Whether or not AA succeeds remains to be seen, but what tiny advantage DL has in the RDU market is blown away by the huge advantage AA has over DL in the much larger LAX market.

Delta is going to get "blown away" by AA's 2pt Revenue Share advantage at LAX?

YE2Q12 DOT DB1B Revenue Share:

UA 21%
AA 20%
DL 18%
WN 10%

LIke most of these markets, the Point of Sale is likely much larger on the RDU side than the LAS side, so the carrier with a bigger presence there (and ongoing nonstop service in the market) is likely to be a formidable competitor.

I get that AA has had a historic advantage in markets like JFK, LAX, SFO, BOS, etc... But history is just that. Things have changed, and they continue to change.

(By the way, if you've followed LAX for a while, you'll see that the convergence of UA, DL and AA is unmistakable. They've all made it a priority. Because they all have roughly equivalent facility capacity at a constrained airport, they are likely to maintain a competitive balance similar to where it is today.)

[Edited 2012-12-21 10:25:02]

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-21 10:15:10 and read 10008 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 46):
Maybe you've forgotten that this route was operated by the 777 for many years...

I am very aware. Proof the 767 is the better fit. They didnt downgrade for a reason.

They dont care about moving the masses its just the high premium passengers who are needed on that flight. High fuel and a change in what is actually profitable has changed the industry. Airlines no longer want to move just the masses its about what is profitable now. Sure you can fill a 777 in the busy times but a 767 with less cheap and heavily discounted seats makes more money and doesnt fly all the empty seats in the low times of year.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: LONGisland89
Posted 2012-12-21 10:21:19 and read 9953 times.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 58):
Quoting YYZBound (Reply 57):

Oh balls, thanks for clarifying.

Quoting YYZBound (Reply 57):
strictly for the LHR flight. It's about 75 flight attendants I believe

Not a bad gig, flying to LHR all the time. Is the RDU FA base very senior?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: YYZBound
Posted 2012-12-21 10:26:06 and read 9897 times.

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 61):

VERY.

The saying is that you can't possibly get into RDU as an F/A unless somebody dies LOL

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: flyguy89
Posted 2012-12-21 10:26:23 and read 9907 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
That loyalty is only good as your most recent status year. If AA has been cutting back, and you've had to find another carrier, then your loyalty to AA is as past tense as AA's RDU dominance is. Same applies to the corporates.

By the same token, if you travel to LHR multiple times a year on AA, and now AA is going to be offering daily year-round LAX flights, the switch to AA is a no-brainer. Sorry, but if I had money I'd be more willing to put it on AA in this fight than DL.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: AVLAirlineFreq
Posted 2012-12-21 10:26:36 and read 9909 times.

Quoting cv880 (Reply 38):
RDU will be lucky to keep what it has to LHR esp if US/AA get married.

Won't RDU-LHR be there as long as the corporate contracts and subsidies continue, regardless of what US and AA do?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: TWA85
Posted 2012-12-21 10:43:49 and read 9789 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 54):
I would not be surprised to see LAXATL, LAXPHL, MIASAN, MIAAUS and PHXJFK in 2013.

What other routes are rumored to be started from JFK and/or LGA?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-21 11:44:22 and read 9522 times.

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 65):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 54):
I would not be surprised to see LAXATL, LAXPHL, MIASAN, MIAAUS and PHXJFK in 2013.

What other routes are rumored to be started from JFK and/or LGA?

Honestly, any medium/large market that doesn't have service to NYC, ORD, MIA and/or LAX is, IMO, fair game to gain service to those airports.

It was stressed in a presentation to pilot recently that one of the goals of AA in it's route planning is to connect more spokes to more hubs.

Surprisingly few points are served to all five hubs (JFK/LGA counted as one). I believe it's just the below dozen:

BNA
BOS
DCA
FLL (*not MIA, though, obviously)
IAH
LAS
LHR
MCO
RDU
SFO
STL
YYZ

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: WA707atMSP
Posted 2012-12-21 12:21:35 and read 9290 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 54):
I would not be surprised to see LAXATL, LAXPHL, MIASAN, MIAAUS and PHXJFK in 2013.

Resuming LAX-DTW at some point would be nice, but I'm not optimistic.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: MesaFlyGuy
Posted 2012-12-21 13:20:43 and read 8984 times.

Quoting ryanrap1 (Reply 47):

I assume it will be a 737-800. I hope it will be more than a measily daily flight, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm happy to see JFK getting some [domestic] love from somebody other than B6  

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: SCL767
Posted 2012-12-21 13:45:06 and read 8879 times.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 31):
AA already flew DFW-LIM, good to see that route return, it's going to be LATAM code-share?

LAN will code-share on AA's DFW-LIM and DFW-BOG routes, (LAN currently code-shares on AA's DFW-EZE and DFW-SCL services).

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-21 13:57:54 and read 8835 times.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 68):
I assume it will be a 737-800.

I'm going to put all my eggs in that basket...319's won't be delivered until July...

Just released info from RDU.com
http://rdublog.com/2012/12/21/aa-to-...aily-los-angeles-service-in-april/

[Edited 2012-12-21 14:00:24]

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-21 14:26:17 and read 8625 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 54):
LAXPHL

Would have been such a good add before VX entered the market. I think they really missed the boat on that one.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: MesaFlyGuy
Posted 2012-12-21 15:08:49 and read 8467 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 70):

I find it interesting that they say they will have the Boeing Sky Interior on the flights. I was not aware they operated the planes with the Sky Interior as a separate subfleet.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-21 19:22:31 and read 8116 times.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 72):
I find it interesting that they say they will have the Boeing Sky Interior on the flights. I was not aware they operated the planes with the Sky Interior as a separate subfleet.

I guess they really want the corporate contract for this route. Versus just sticking any old 738 on the route.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-21 19:25:17 and read 8117 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 73):

Very true, I'm just interested if they specifically send the sky interiors consistently or just rotate aircraft normally when it actually happens.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-21 19:26:04 and read 8163 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 73):
Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 72):
I find it interesting that they say they will have the Boeing Sky Interior on the flights. I was not aware they operated the planes with the Sky Interior as a separate subfleet.

I guess they really want the corporate contract for this route. Versus just sticking any old 738 on the route.


AA does no assign new sky interiors to any specific route and will not assign them exclusively on LAXRDU. LAXRDU will see new sky interiors at random like every other route.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-21 20:04:56 and read 8021 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 75):

Thanks for the clarification! I did think that it would be an unnecessary task to try and use these aircraft as their own subfleet on their own routes.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: seatback
Posted 2012-12-22 08:19:46 and read 7715 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 54):
AA is on the verge of emerging from bankrtupcy with the industry's best costs. While I don't expect deviation from the cornerstone strategy, I do expect more of what is happening in Raleigh and Houston: connecting major domestic airports to all five hubs.

I would not be surprised to see LAXATL, LAXPHL, MIASAN, MIAAUS and PHXJFK in 2013.

Any opinions on DEN-JFK?

I question whether DL's DEN-LGA/JFK flights are doing very well.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-22 09:31:10 and read 7598 times.

Quoting seatback (Reply 77):
I question whether DL's DEN-LGA/JFK flights are doing very well.
AA has Jetblue offering service for people who want AA miles/international connections on JFK-DEN/SLC/PHX. Those are some decent length flights and pretty low fares for how long the flights are. I think AA is smart to stay away or at least use jetblue until they can really commit when more fuel efficient planes come in.

Delta has alot of planes and really wants to become the tri-state area airline over United so they need to fly routes like LGA-DEN. DEN is an easy fill in summer and ski season its the off season that i worry about. I use to fly JFK-DEN quite often and it was almost empty every time i flew it but i think the LGA-DEN flights are actually filling pretty well. Delta might be willing to give these flights some time too since they really want to make NYC happen and DEN is an important link

[Edited 2012-12-22 10:18:11]

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-22 10:14:36 and read 7496 times.

Quoting cv880 (Reply 38):
Be happy with the recently added services by AA/UA/DL to the west coast. RDU will be lucky to keep what it has to LHR esp if US/AA get married

That's what DL is for. If US/AA decide to "get married" and discontinue RDU-LHR I promise you DL will swoop in and take the contract. But being as the RDU-LHR market is higher than the CLT-LHR market I highly doubt it'll get dropped. Airlines don't just drop a highly profitable route.
And just in case they did theres always this airline to fill in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDRgN8u6190

[Edited 2012-12-22 10:40:39]

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cv880
Posted 2012-12-22 12:35:38 and read 7338 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 79):
That's what DL is for. If US/AA decide to "get married" and discontinue RDU-LHR I promise you DL will swoop in and take the contract. But being as the RDU-LHR market is higher than the CLT-LHR market I highly doubt it'll get dropped. Airlines don't just drop a highly profitable route.
And just in case they did theres always this airline to fill in...

Don't be so sure about what DL may or may not do. I've been with them ever since I left Chapel Hill 40yrs ago and they move in & out of markets like the wind. I'm just hoping that they stay in SFO & LAX and finally glad to see that they seem to be in the Transcon market to stay.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-22 18:45:29 and read 7081 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 79):
That's what DL is for. If US/AA decide to "get married" and discontinue RDU-LHR I promise you DL will swoop in and take the contract.

Why in the world would AA drop a route that is guaranteed to make money?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-22 22:36:46 and read 6882 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 79):
That's what DL is for. If US/AA decide to "get married" and discontinue RDU-LHR I promise you DL will swoop in and take the contract.

Why in the world would AA drop a route that is guaranteed to make money?


Not saying they would. Just responding to an earlier post.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-12-23 07:02:09 and read 6654 times.

Eastern flew nonstop from MIA to both FDF and PTP:

MIA-FDF 4x weekly 727
MIA-PTP 2x weekly 727

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-23 08:11:06 and read 6587 times.

AA has released the flight times today.

LAX-RDU: Depart 8:00am Arrive 4:25pm
RDU-LAX: Depart 5:15pm Arrive 8:00pm

Definitely better timed than DL's flight.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: capejet
Posted 2012-12-23 11:51:54 and read 6344 times.

Now that AA has announced MIA-PTP/FDF, will the Eagle flights from SJU-PTP/FDF continue to operate?

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-23 13:17:00 and read 6238 times.

Quoting capejet (Reply 85):

AA announced MIA-PTP/FDF BECAUSE the Eagle flights are ending.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: SJUSXM
Posted 2012-12-23 15:13:06 and read 6101 times.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 86):
AA announced MIA-PTP/FDF BECAUSE the Eagle flights are ending.

I know that's been the rumour, but they are still bookable in April (and June) alongside the MIA flights. Along with the incredibly insane SJU-STX flight that leaves at 525AM!

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: flyinryan99
Posted 2012-12-23 18:04:24 and read 5948 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 66):
It was stressed in a presentation to pilot recently that one of the goals of AA in it's route planning is to connect more spokes to more hubs.

For some reason I think TOL will be left out or one of the last to be a part of this. I have heard AA is becoming much more interested in DFW in the past few months. I would love LGA as it would help my travels out much more but DFW makes more sense and they can use the SCASD grant for it. I just question viability with a 50 seater.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-23 19:07:26 and read 5881 times.

Quoting SJUSXM (Reply 87):
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 86):
AA announced MIA-PTP/FDF BECAUSE the Eagle flights are ending.

I know that's been the rumour, but they are still bookable in April (and June) alongside the MIA flights. Along with the incredibly insane SJU-STX flight that leaves at 525AM!

Eagle flights end 31 March. That's official.

Bookings still being accepted because AMR hopes to have a new Eagle carrier in place for SJU by that time. AMR is in advance talks with Seaborne to operate as American Eagle.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: slcdeltarumd11
Posted 2012-12-24 18:13:44 and read 5376 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 84):

AA has released the flight times today.

LAX-RDU: Depart 8:00am Arrive 4:25pm
RDU-LAX: Depart 5:15pm Arrive 8:00pm

Definitely better timed than DL's flight.

This is the ideal timing for the majority of business travellers when you can only offer a single frequency. I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta pull after the Summer

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: N1120A
Posted 2012-12-26 03:46:28 and read 4814 times.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 59):
LIke most of these markets, the Point of Sale is likely much larger on the RDU side than the LAS side, so the carrier with a bigger presence there (and ongoing nonstop service in the market) is likely to be a formidable competitor.

I get that AA has had a historic advantage in markets like JFK, LAX, SFO, BOS, etc... But history is just that. Things have changed, and they continue to change.

AA also has a historic, and very current advantage in RDU - despite DL's attempts to capture the market.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 66):
It was stressed in a presentation to pilot recently that one of the goals of AA in it's route planning is to connect more spokes to more hubs.

Which makes tons of sense. They have a lot of markets that are under-served in that respect.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-26 11:59:46 and read 4508 times.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 90):
This is the ideal timing for the majority of business travellers when you can only offer a single frequency. I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta pull after the Summer

DL with either pull or put up a fight. They are most likely mulling the decision as we speak. Both airlines could coexist on this route being as it has about 450 PDEW. Time will tell. But so far two cities have been crossed the list of top ten destinations from RDU that are underserved. List is...
1. SFO
2. SAN
3. LAX
4. MCI
5. SJU
6. SEA
7. RSW
8. MSY
9. SLC
10. PDX

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-26 12:13:37 and read 4473 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 92):
DL with either pull or put up a fight. They are most likely mulling the decision as we speak. Both airlines could coexist on this route being as it has about 450 PDEW. Time will tell. But so far two cities have been crossed the list of top ten destinations from RDU that are underserved. List is...

No, it is around 225 PDEW. That isn't large and isn't going to be easy for two airlines.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: cessna2
Posted 2012-12-26 13:12:34 and read 4344 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 93):
No, it is around 225 PDEW. That isn't large and isn't going to be easy for two airlines.

no its 450 PDEW.
http://rdublog.com/2012/12/21/aa-to-...aily-los-angeles-service-in-april/

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-26 13:42:22 and read 4284 times.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 94):

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 93):
No, it is around 225 PDEW. That isn't large and isn't going to be easy for two airlines.

no its 450 PDEW.
http://rdublog.com/2012/12/21/aa-to-...aily-los-angeles-service-in-april/


PDEW is per day, each way, so 450/2=225. For a trans-con market, that's just about te minimum threshold to support a daily flight.

Topic: RE: AA New Routes: LAX-RDU, JFK-IAH, MIA-FDF/PTP
Username: RyanairGuru
Posted 2012-12-26 17:41:19 and read 4084 times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
local, low yield market.

Which low yield market were you referring to? I think that AA could do very well on this route with Research Triangle contracts.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 6):
Even though they've cut back almost continuously at RDU for years, they still have a very loyal frequent flier and corporate base in the region with their RDU-LHR flight and all.

  

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 13):
DL does provide better connections from RDU because of the focus city

Other than BOS, what markets does DL serve that AA doesn't now? And of course there is LHR...

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
your loyalty to AA is as past tense as AA's RDU dominance is

Don't doubt it. LHR and onwards to Europe is the jewel in AA's crown. While DL have more departures, AA still have a strong operation there.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
t is far more likely you'll see them increase capacity and hunker down for a fight.

The A319 would be the perfect plane for DL to use daily on that route, failing that the 73G. Of course they don't use the 319 transcon, but the 73G's have Delta On Demand etc and are probably a better size for the market, especially if they plan to go daily (which they should have done from the outset)

---> As an aside, UA to SFO is daily isn't it?

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 51):
Also does AA have a crew base in RDU

RDU-i

As said currently for LHR only

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 52):
RDU has a crew base for the LHR flight only.

They are merging the -i and domestic bases into joint work groups, meaning that RDU could crew the base (and also RONs from DFW and MIA to cut hotel costs)

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 64):
Quoting cv880 (Reply 38):
RDU will be lucky to keep what it has to LHR esp if US/AA get married.

Won't RDU-LHR be there as long as the corporate contracts and subsidies continue, regardless of what US and AA do?

Precisely, even if Parker (assuming for a second that he is CEO) concentrates operations at CLT, if RDU-LHR is as profitable as everyone seems to think it is (and I believe that it is) then BA could very easily replace AA, picking up the AA contracts and continuing to keep the route within the TAP as opposed to watching DL waltz in to the market. That said, Parker would be dumb to pull it and I credit him with more intelligence than that.

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 84):
LAX-RDU: Depart 8:00am Arrive 4:25pm
RDU-LAX: Depart 5:15pm Arrive 8:00pm
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 90):
This is the ideal timing for the majority of business travellers when you can only offer a single frequency

Not only that, it is also perfect for connections to QF so I'm happy 
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 10):
It's tourism. But it's super high-end

Most of which, I would guess, is coming from NYC, LAX, MIA (+LHR). AA is very well positioned to cream off the highest yielding passengers in those markets.


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