Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5640367/

Topic: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-20 11:37:10 and read 4376 times.

Huge snowstorm hitting the midwest this holiday season. Dubbed "Draco" by the Weather Channel in a similar way the National Hurricane Center names hurricanes, This storm is already causing major issues at ORD.
Any other airports have issues? Closure rates/ delays?

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: Acey559
Posted 2012-12-20 11:38:54 and read 4372 times.

Many flights into MLI have been canceled. Two Allegiant flights diverted, LAS-MLI diverted to SGF and PIE-MLI diverted to FSD. Right now we're at 1/4 mile with wind gusts of 43 knots and snow.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: mhkansan
Posted 2012-12-20 12:00:25 and read 4236 times.

MQ has cancelled 1 DFW overnight at GCK, 1 ORD flight at ICT, our two overnighters (DFW and ORD) and two turns (DFW and ORD) at MHK. I think maybe a cancellation or two at GRI and MCI but I'm not sure.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-20 12:22:49 and read 4157 times.

Per the FAA:

Quote:
Due to WEATHER / WIND, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving Chicago O'Hare International Airport, Chicago, IL (ORD). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 2 hours and 4 minutes. To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination".


That's their exact quote. Nothing was listed under "delays by destination" and instead they encouraged people to contact their carrier. The Weather Channel's Mike Seidel earlier reported saying that if anyone is flying out of ORD their flight will either be delayed or cancelled, and that was a "given" according to him. Not a good day to be flying.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: MLI717fan
Posted 2012-12-20 12:31:44 and read 4121 times.

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 1):
Many flights into MLI have been canceled. Two Allegiant flights diverted, LAS-MLI diverted to SGF and PIE-MLI diverted to FSD. Right now we're at 1/4 mile with wind gusts of 43 knots and snow.

Yeah, I had a friend who was supposed to fly out on the 1:25 UA express flight to DEN, she got rebooked for Sunday. When I saw the G4 planes take off for MLI, I thought that was a little crazy. It looks like CID got hit even worse with cancellations. I'm sure things will really hit the fan all over the midwest when ORD gets the snow.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: SW733
Posted 2012-12-20 13:20:07 and read 3923 times.

Several flights here at MCI have been cancelled, mostly this morning, as we had strong winds and blowing snow. Clear and sunny now so I'd expect things to be back to normal, at least from an MCI aspect.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: Acey559
Posted 2012-12-20 13:27:44 and read 3875 times.

Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 4):

Yikes, and it couldn't really be a worse time, too. I have to head back to work on Saturday so I hope things are mostly back to normal by then. Otherwise I guess I'll be driving.   

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: qcpilotxf
Posted 2012-12-20 13:36:44 and read 3793 times.

i can personally say that MLI, DVN, CID pretty much all of Eastern Iowa and Northwestern Illinois are done for the day, i was supposed to go flying myself today. i woke up and decided not too

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: nkops
Posted 2012-12-20 13:46:50 and read 3744 times.

This will move east overnight and cause big delays most likely tomorrow.... here is the NOAA forecast for tonite and tomorrow for NYC

Tonight Rain, with thunderstorms also possible after 3am. Some storms could be severe, with damaging winds and heavy rain. Low around 42. Breezy, with a southeast wind 11 to 16 mph increasing to 18 to 23 mph after midnight. Winds could gust as high as 38 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New rainfall amounts between a half and three quarters of an inch possible.
Friday Showers and possibly a thunderstorm. Some storms could be severe, with damaging winds and heavy rain. High near 53. Windy, with a southeast wind 24 to 29 mph becoming southwest 18 to 23 mph in the afternoon. Winds could gust as high as 46 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New rainfall amounts between a half and three quarters of an inch possible

Could be an interesting day at work tomorrow!

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2012-12-20 14:15:02 and read 3611 times.

Why is it called "Draco". We're naming run of the mil snow storms now for ratings?

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: steex
Posted 2012-12-20 14:19:05 and read 3590 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
Why is it called "Draco". We're naming run of the mil snow storms now for ratings?

You got it. It's funny to me because they're only naming the ones centered on the Lower 48, since that's where the dramatic news coverage is worthwhile. Otherwise, they should use each letter several times over on major snowstorms hitting Alaska.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-20 14:27:19 and read 3548 times.

Cancels as of 4pm Eastern.

AA - 323
DL - 44
UA - 166
WN - 204

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-20 14:34:00 and read 3526 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
Why is it called "Draco". We're naming run of the mil snow storms now for ratings?

Well the Weather Channel claims they use this for the purpose of having people heed warnings better. They claim that, in the same way Europe names weather systems, people will be less surprised and therefore will have less casualties. I think the Weather Channel was encouraged to do so by the NWS.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Cancels as of 4pm Eastern.

AA - 323

Not good at all for their monetary issues

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: iowaman
Posted 2012-12-20 14:35:03 and read 3518 times.

CID has not had any commercial operations today and everything is cancelled the rest of the night.

DSM cleared out much sooner than CID and seems to be doing decent receiving flights. All arrivals and departures were cancelled this morning. UA just ran a 752 from DEN that went right back.. It appears to be an extra section I'm guessing to pick up stranded pax.

MCW (Mason City, IA) just had their first ZK turn of the day but was closed this morning.

FOD (Fort Dodge, IA) got out a couple ZK flights to MSP this afternoon but was closed this morning.

DBQ (Dubuque, IA) is still on the edge of the snowfall and has not received or departed any AA flights today.

LSE has not received or departed any commercial flights to ORD or MSP today.

MSN had an arrival from ORD this morning that did make a turn back to ORD this afternoon. That appears to be all commercially that's operated so far today.

Some pretty crazy wind out there blowing around this fresh snow cover:

KALO 202206Z 32027G44KT 3/4SM R12/6000VP6000FT BR OVC019 M04/M07 A2972 RMK AO2 PK WND 32044/2201 PWINO FZRANO

[Edited 2012-12-20 14:37:39]

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-20 14:38:09 and read 3489 times.

Bad part about this storms timing is that airlines are experiencing 90%+LF today and next few days as folks make their Xmas journeys across the nation.

Very little available capacity to reaccommodate or recover from cancellations and delays.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: flyfree727
Posted 2012-12-20 14:38:28 and read 3489 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
AA - 323
Not good at all for their monetary issues

Its not good for ANY airlines bottom line..

AA ORD

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-12-20 14:38:53 and read 3489 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well the Weather Channel claims they use this for the purpose of having people heed warnings better. They claim that, in the same way Europe names weather systems, people will be less surprised and therefore will have less casualties. I think the Weather Channel was encouraged to do so by the NWS.

Try again. The NWS has publicly stated they are NOT in support of this attention grab by The Weather Channel. Winter systems are not as easy to track as tropical systems. With a tropical system you have one defined low pressure that can be tracked. Winter systems can have more than one. The NWS is not condoning nor supporting this action by TWC due to the inability for this to be accurately tracked and also due to insurance consequences when it comes to insurance premiums increasing when "named storms" impact an area.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: XFSUgimpLB41X
Posted 2012-12-20 15:59:30 and read 3332 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 16):
Try again. The NWS has publicly stated they are NOT in support of this attention grab by The Weather Channel. Winter systems are not as easy to track as tropical systems. With a tropical system you have one defined low pressure that can be tracked. Winter systems can have more than one. The NWS is not condoning nor supporting this action by TWC due to the inability for this to be accurately tracked and also due to insurance consequences when it comes to insurance premiums increasing when "named storms" impact an area.

Exactly... what a horrible grab at ratings by overdramatizing the weather.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2012-12-20 16:16:33 and read 3248 times.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 17):
Exactly... what a horrible grab at ratings by overdramatizing the weather.

Half the time when I turn on the Weather Channel anymore it is anything but the weather...something like "Storm Stories" or some other form of reality programming  

I was going to chide the OP for embracing The Weather Channel's controversial naming of winter storms, but it seems that others have done that job for me  

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: nkops
Posted 2012-12-20 18:06:09 and read 3052 times.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):
Half the time when I turn on the Weather Channel anymore it is anything but the weather...something like "Storm Stories" or some other form of reality programming

Yea, soon they will be like what MTV is to music....

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2012-12-20 18:11:56 and read 3042 times.

Quoting nkops (Reply 19):

Maybe WC can have all their on air talent move into a big mansion in Buckhead and make a show out of it. And oh yeah, the mgmt there fired heather tesch.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-20 18:42:51 and read 2936 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 14):
Bad part about this storms timing is that airlines are experiencing 90%+LF today and next few days as folks make their Xmas journeys across the nation.

I smell a lot of widebody upgauges tomorrow and saturday   

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 16):
Try again. The NWS has publicly stated they are NOT in support of this attention grab by The Weather Channel. Winter systems are not as easy to track as tropical systems.
Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 17):
Exactly... what a horrible grab at ratings by overdramatizing the weather.
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):
Half the time when I turn on the Weather Channel anymore it is anything but the weather...something like "Storm Stories" or some other form of reality programming

Wow then my contact at the weather channel lied to me in the face. Someone is not getting their christmas gift card this year         

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: skywaymanaz
Posted 2012-12-20 20:12:35 and read 2781 times.

I thought it was a little cute when they named the noreaster that hit after Hurricane Sandy. A noreaster is a bit different then a snow storm though. Seems way to gimmicky to name each snow storm for multitude of reasons given above. Sounds to much like Kent Brockman on The Simpsons warning us about a killer snow storm. "The death count is up to zero, **** you snow!!!"

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: Jerseyguy
Posted 2012-12-20 21:39:12 and read 2639 times.

Re: PHX787
I thought that most airlines didn't have extra planes let alone wide bodies

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-20 23:02:25 and read 2553 times.

Cancel counts as of midnight Eastern.

Thursday
AA - 339
DL - 171
UA - 386
WN - 206

Friday
AA - 31
DL - 31
UA - 36
WN - 15

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: twinotter
Posted 2012-12-21 09:04:19 and read 2418 times.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
We're naming run of the mil snow storms now for ratings?

Regardless of how you feel about naming winter storms, this one was hardly a "run of the mill storm". It’s the biggest snowfall for Iowa in 3 years.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: izbtmnhd
Posted 2012-12-21 09:34:37 and read 2362 times.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 25):

The point is that it's a run of the mill storm in the Gulf of Alaska. It's a correct statement. In fact there was a deeper and wider area of low pressure over the Gulf at the same time this storm was spinning over the Great Plains. It's winter, pressure gradients vary wildly, especially north of 50N Lat.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: twinotter
Posted 2012-12-21 10:07:15 and read 2240 times.

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 26):
The point is that it's a run of the mill storm in the Gulf of Alaska.

This storm was in the Midwest, not Alaska. It wasn't a "run of the mill" storm in the Midwest.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-12-21 10:36:47 and read 2032 times.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 25):
Regardless of how you feel about naming winter storms, this one was hardly a "run of the mill storm". It’s the biggest snowfall for Iowa in 3 years.

So should we start naming tornadoes, derechos, and any ol' heavy downpour?

This thread has probably reach the end of its useful life. Perhaps the mods can move this thread over to Non-Av and we can discuss the naming issues there.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: izbtmnhd
Posted 2012-12-21 10:44:52 and read 1967 times.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 27):

So there should only be named storms that aren't run of the mill in a specific area? That alone creates more confusion than necessary. I prefer the NWS's Watch, Advisory, Warning system vs. having to waste time and guess what storm is "important" enough to be named.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: twinotter
Posted 2012-12-21 10:47:00 and read 1946 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 28):
So should we start naming tornadoes, derechos, and any ol' heavy downpour?

Why are you quoting me? I never said we should name anything, just pointed out that this was not a "run of the mill" snowstorm, as another poster claimed it was.

[Edited 2012-12-21 10:48:18]

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-12-21 11:09:24 and read 1810 times.

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 29):
So there should only be named storms that aren't run of the mill in a specific area? That alone creates more confusion than necessary. I prefer the NWS's Watch, Advisory, Warning system vs. having to waste time and guess what storm is "important" enough to be named.

This.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 30):
Why are you quoting me? I never said we should name anything, just pointed out that this was not a "run of the mill" snowstorm, as another poster claimed it was.

It is all a matter of perspective. 6 inches of snow in Dallas is not a run of the mill storm, but for Buffalo it is an afternoon annoyance. With a hurricane it is pretty constant object that can be tracked. With a storm system producing snow it might be "end of the world" for one city but for another just an average snow. So yeah...for some it is going to be a run of the mill storm.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: twinotter
Posted 2012-12-21 11:45:46 and read 1607 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 31):
It is all a matter of perspective. 6 inches of snow in Dallas is not a run of the mill storm, but for Buffalo it is an afternoon annoyance.

This storm was in the Midwest, not Dallas or Buffalo or Alaska. That's not a matter of perspective; it's a matter of fact. Hence, it was not a "run of the mill" storm.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-12-21 12:01:18 and read 1578 times.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 32):
This storm was in the Midwest, not Dallas or Buffalo or Alaska. That's not a matter of perspective; it's a matter of fact. Hence, it was not a "run of the mill" storm.

So should we be naming every little flurry that causes traffic problems in Houston then?

I'm not sure how I can make it any plainer to understand the point we are all making.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: ih8b6
Posted 2012-12-21 12:23:20 and read 1540 times.

Re: "run of the mill storm"....

So who determines if it's "run of the mill" versus "the world is coming to and end" kind of a storm? Does the Weather Channel do that too? If they get to do that and name the storm, seems like a conflict of interest!  

Naming of winter storms is a bit overboard. What is next? Naming of really strong cold fronts during the summer that cause a tornado outbreak?

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 28):
This thread has probably reach the end of its useful life.

In addition to this thread reaching the end of its useful life, so has the Weather Channel. From an aviation perspective, it's useless...too much reality TV and commercials. It's not like it used to be. All about ratings now.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: steex
Posted 2012-12-21 13:19:23 and read 1478 times.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 32):
This storm was in the Midwest, not Dallas or Buffalo or Alaska. That's not a matter of perspective; it's a matter of fact. Hence, it was not a "run of the mill" storm.

As someone who has lived his entire life in the Midwest, while this wasn't a completely "run of the mill" snowstorm, I wouldn't exactly say a storm like this is extraordinary for the region, either. They have permanently installed gates to allow closing of the interstates in many Midwestern states because these storms happen frequently enough to necessitate it.

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: PHX787
Posted 2012-12-21 17:38:23 and read 1339 times.

Quoting Jerseyguy (Reply 23):
I thought that most airlines didn't have extra planes let alone wide bodies

Some can. I recall out in PHX, DL sometimes upgauged a cancelled 757 flight to a 767...or 777.....or once, a 744, covering two cancelled 753 flights. It was a sight to behold

Topic: RE: Snowstorm Draco Delays
Username: Maverick623
Posted 2012-12-22 00:07:58 and read 1150 times.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 21):
I smell a lot of widebody upgauges tomorrow and saturday

Doubtful. People have been told they may not get out until Sunday, as early as yesterday morning, with some markets not seeing any seats available until Christmas Day.

Any "extra" widebodies are likely either in heavy maintenance or already supporting an increased schedule.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/