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Topic: Braniff In Boston
Username: zrs70
Posted 2012-12-21 21:13:24 and read 7698 times.

In the late 70's/ early 80's, Braniff operated a mini-hub from BOS for european flights. Can someone list the cities and equipment used?

Thank you!

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: CapEd388
Posted 2012-12-21 21:29:34 and read 7660 times.

This is the coolest coincidence, I'm in the middle of reading "Braniff International: Splash of Colors" which is a great book.

According to the book Braniff flew from Boston to London/Paris/Amsterdam/Brussels and Frankfurt. Braniff operated these routes using their trademark orange B747s which were nicknamed "Great Pumpkins".

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: Viajero
Posted 2012-12-21 21:35:04 and read 7624 times.

If you get a chance, check Amazon or a similar site and search for Braniff: A Color History or something of the sort. It's one of 3 or 4 Braniff books written by Dallas area author George Cearley Jr. I'm sure what you're looking for will be in there. I'm stuck away from home, or I'd check for you, but if you're interested in other facets of BI, these books would be of great value to you.
Regards,
Viajero

[Edited 2012-12-21 22:33:01]

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-12-21 22:51:30 and read 7454 times.

It was the "Big Orange" , may be the Pilgrim Fathers in BOS called it the Big Pumpkin, or just Charlie Brown.

From my logbook - BN, BOS-BRU-FRA 747, think it was a -100

amazing, long time ago, but I remember from that flight that it was delayed twice because the coffee machine did not work.

[Edited 2012-12-21 22:52:19]

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2012-12-22 03:56:19 and read 7238 times.

Here's a link:

http://www.departedflights.com/BN102879p10.html

Shows complete BOS schedule and equipment used.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-22 04:01:22 and read 7229 times.

Maybe these may help you, at the height of BN's route structure.

http://www.departedflights.com/BN072877.html - In 1977 this was their route map, no European flights at all.

http://www.departedflights.com/BN070179.html - By 1979, a much different story

http://www.departedflights.com/BN060180.html - Same in 1980

http://www.departedflights.com/BN050181.html - By 1981, DFW-LGW was the only European route for BN.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: Citationjet
Posted 2012-12-22 04:16:35 and read 7208 times.

Braniff started European service from BOS on June 1, 1979 with non-stop 747 service to Paris, FRA, AMS, and BRU. Prior to the service starting, they announced the service was to be two flights per week to each European city. My sister worked ticket counter for Braniff in Boston during that time. Braniff had applied for LGW service, but I don't think that ever happened based on memory without checking. According to the March/April 1979 company newsletter B-Liner, there were 315 airport employees at BOS and a flight crew base of 200. The newsletter mentioned standby fares from BOS to the European cities ranging from $326 to $353 round trip.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: doulasc
Posted 2012-12-22 06:36:21 and read 7063 times.

Also I beleive NW Orient had some flights from BOS to Europe for a short while around 1980.

[Edited 2012-12-22 06:44:50]

[Edited 2012-12-22 06:45:28]

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: CF-CPI
Posted 2012-12-22 06:41:57 and read 7053 times.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):
Shows complete BOS schedule and equipment used.

I honestly see how they could try London, but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing. I'd love to know what sort of loads they were getting.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: zrs70
Posted 2012-12-22 06:55:45 and read 6996 times.

Quoting doulasc (Reply 7):
Also I beleive NW Orient had some flights from BOS to Europe for a short while around 1980.

NW hada dedicated BOS mini-hub through the 80's. Flights to LGW and SNN/DUB has already been established, and flights to AMS, FRA, CDG, and i believe BRU and CPH were added. I think Prestwick was also there.

Domestic flights included:
DCA
IAD
JFK
MCO
TPA
DTW
MSP
MKE
LAX
MEM

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-22 07:17:37 and read 6952 times.

I was a Braniff f/a out of Boston the entire time thebase was open from June 1979 until the Spring of 1981. AMS, FRA, ORY were all 747-100's, -200's or the odd SP. Initially BRU started with a DC8-62 but was later changed to a 747.

The 747 fleet was a hodge-podge of the originial 747-127 (Fat Albert), the Braniff 747-227, a 747-100 that was LH's original 747 (nicknamed "The Hindenburg") and an ex-LH (actually Condor) 747-200 (nicknamed "Hitler's Revenge.") This airplane was also unusual in that the orange color it was painted was not the deep orange of all of the others. It resembled a big, fat Dreamsickle. Neither of the ex-LH planes were known for their mechanical reliability.There was also a World Airways 747-200CF with the nose-loading door. When BI used it it was the only time it had ever flown in a passenger configuration. On the first trip, all the oven doors had glass inserts that shattered from the heat. They were quickly exchanged. The upper deck had a nifty table that could be used at coffee table height or cranked up to be a table for four for meals. BI also had an American 747-123 that had the lower lobe galleys and unique catering equipment. We were told "you'll never see that aircraft in BOS"--so, of course, there it was one day and none of the f//a's scheduled to work on it had been through the required AA lower lobe training course and BOS catering had none of the correct carts and inserts. Cancel one flight.

Flight loads were excellent--we were pretty much always full. But the best thing about the BOS base were the crews--pilots and f/a's--we were young, having a great time in a beautiful city and we bonded into a unique group. Even today, many of us still keep in contact.

BI tried in vain to get the route from BOS to LHR but it never went through. By 1981 Braniff's fortunes were rapidly on the slide and they closed the base and forced us all to transfer to DFW. FYI--Braniff used Terminal 5 at BOS. We were all very sorry to see the base close.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-12-22 07:21:51 and read 6937 times.

NWA is confirmed, I've been on that FRA/BOS vv flight several times.
Add LGA to the domestic destinations to/from BOS. Once I checked in at LGA to connct to the FRA flight at BOS, wasn't easy, must have been the first time the agent did that.



Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 8):

I honestly see how they could try London, but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing. I'd love to know what sort of loads they were getting.

full , checking the schedule, I must have been on that Monday departure via BRU to FRA and the 747 was full to BRU

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-22 07:31:45 and read 6915 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):

I honestly see how they could try London, but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing. I'd love to know what sort of loads they were getting.

As I said in my previous post, loads to all of the cities were great. The U.S. Government and the UK balked at giving BI rights to LHR and they considered that critical. BRU flights in particular were in high demand. We kept insisting that the base was profitable but the interest rates were around 22% at the time and the leases were astronomical on the 747's since BI only owned 2 full-sized 74's and 3 SP's. And if I remember correctly even those were leased with rates tied to the prime. They tried to renogiate the leases but with no effect. That is why they eventually sold one SP to Aerolineas and refused delivery on two 747-227's. THey sat at Boeing for several years. At one point Air Algerie was going to buy them but the sale fell through at th last minute--they had even been painted in full colors. NW got them for a song and then retrieved the other 747-227 which by this time was flying for PeopleExpress out of EWR. The were NW ship numbers 6633, 6634 and 6635 and were easily spotted because they did not have the spiral stairway. They had the straight stairs. For years afterwards I would get on one to work and mumble "If you beasts only knew how much trouble you had caused...." But they were beautiful aircraft.

[Edited 2012-12-22 07:33:43]

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: zrs70
Posted 2012-12-22 07:36:04 and read 6897 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 10):
-Braniff used Terminal 5 at BOS.

Did Terminal E (International) used to be called 5?

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-22 08:01:47 and read 6857 times.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 9):
I think Prestwick was also there.

PIK was indeed there--it was also flown out of JFK and was ALWAYS packed with these wonderful elderly ladies who felt it necessary to apologize to me when I picked up their dinners and they had not finished their peas. Very gracious and giving people. I'd KILL for a Cheese Toastie with Branston Pickle!

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 13):
Did Terminal E (International) used to be called 5?

Actually, I think you are correct. I always thought of it as the fifth stop on the bus from the "T" station. Back then in the summers it was so hot that by the time I got from my condo in Back Bay to the terminal in uniform I was soaking wet. Eventually I started wearing shorts and a t shirt on the "T" and changing at the airport.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2012-12-22 08:16:45 and read 6830 times.

Correct me if I'm forgetting something, but I think BI was the first airline to try and made a mini-hub work in BOS. Yes, DL had a major presence thanks to NE and EA had an impressive operation...but neither really leveraged their strengths there in the 70's and 80's.
The timeline seems that BI tried to make BOS a gateway and had to walk away due to its other problems. Then NWO>NWA gave it a shot from the mid 80s to the early 90s before they decided to focus on DTW and the KLM JV. In the mid 90s DL started to grow BOS during the Mullin (a BOS native) years before putting their eggs in the JFK basket(case) lol. Now, of course, Beantown is a B6 town...sans the European network (yet).

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-12-22 08:47:55 and read 6783 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
full , checking the schedule, I must have been on that Monday departure via BRU to FRA and the 747 was full to BRU
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 12):
As I said in my previous post, loads to all of the cities were great

That's exactly what I said in my answer. You quoted the other guy's question.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: zrs70
Posted 2012-12-22 08:54:53 and read 6769 times.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 15):
Correct me if I'm forgetting something, but I think BI was the first airline to try and made a mini-hub work in BOS.

I've got some mid 80's literature in which DL calls BOS a "mini hub." But it was like a regional one, as there was still mainline service to PHL, DCA, BWI, RDU, BGR, PWM, and BDL from BOS.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: GentFromAlaska
Posted 2012-12-22 09:08:41 and read 6752 times.

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 8):
but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing.

In the 70's the bigger was better mentality ruled. It was more about comfort vs controlling cost. The 747 were the greatest things and marketed as the cadillac of flying. Petro was a whole cheaper too.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: N62NA
Posted 2012-12-22 09:24:57 and read 6724 times.

DTWPurserBoy,

Thanks for sharing all this great information. Memories shared from people like you who were there in the "good old days" makes this forum very enjoyable and enlightening!

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: EASTERN747
Posted 2012-12-22 09:59:29 and read 6604 times.

Eastern did have a force in BOS. I believe that we built a very impressive new terminal. I was there for the opening day. If my memory recalls, it was very beautiful. Don't know if it is still there. They also had a store where you could pick out a live lobster, have it packaged, and take it home. Afraid I couldn't do it now.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: VS11
Posted 2012-12-22 11:48:02 and read 5959 times.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
DTWPurserBoy,

Thanks for sharing all this great information. Memories shared from people like you who were there in the "good old days" makes this forum very enjoyable and enlightening!

My sentiments exactly! When I was reading his first post, I was thinking how lucky we are to have this website where we can learn first-hand how things were....

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-22 11:58:54 and read 5908 times.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 15):
but I think BI was the first airline to try and made a mini-hub work in BOS.
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 12):
The U.S. Government and the UK balked at giving BI rights to LHR

Braniff's code was BN, not BI which is Royal Brunei Airlines.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-22 12:43:44 and read 5661 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):

Braniff's code was BN, not BI which is Royal Brunei Airlines.

Thank you! Folks always want to say BI.

My friends from Braniff used to tell stories about the Boston flying.. They were a unique
carrier to say the least. Their fate was sealed with the Deregulation Acct.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: olddominion727
Posted 2012-12-22 13:20:41 and read 5485 times.

BN flew HNL-MIA nonstop?? Wow?? What type of equip? U wouldnt think u would need something paradise to paradise? Unless u area pineapple.

BN had an impressive global route structure. Why did BN, TW, PA not make it flying everywhere?? Such a shame

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-22 13:41:26 and read 5574 times.

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 24):
BN had an impressive global route structure.

Unfortunately Braniff operated many routes that had very little demand. They began service on many routes (SEL, HKG, SIN, GUM) simply because they were the only routes where they could obtain traffic rights. They did the same thing on domestic routes after deregulation, meaning almost empty aircraft on many routes.

Their routes to Asia were guaranteed money-losers without the ability to serve Japan. TWA had the same problem during their brief period of transpacific (and around-the-world) service in the late '60s and early '70s. They had no rights to Japan (except Okinawa which was still under post-WWII U.S. administration then).

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2012-12-22 14:19:37 and read 5395 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):


They did the same thing on domestic routes after deregulation, meaning almost empty aircraft on many routes.

That initial batch was the infamous "Dormant Authority" route grab where airline reps lined up outside the CAB office to put in their requests for dormant routes, being so desperate for expansion ops. Most found out WHY those authorities were dormant.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: zrs70
Posted 2012-12-22 14:26:36 and read 5463 times.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 20):

Eastern did have a force in BOS. I believe that we built a very impressive new terminal. I was there for the opening day. If my memory recalls, it was very beautiful. Don't know if it is still there. They also had a store where you could pick out a live lobster, have it packaged, and take it home. Afraid I couldn't do it now.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 20):

The Eastern Terminal in Boston was a sight to behold. One of the finest examples of airport architecture I know of. Stately in structure, magnificent in presence. Nothing like current airports that all seem to look alike now!

You can still get fresh lobsters packed at Logan via Legal Sea Food!

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: deltacto
Posted 2012-12-22 15:21:51 and read 5273 times.

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 24):
BN flew HNL-MIA nonstop??
http://www.departedflights.com/BN072877.html

Note at the bottom of the route map: "Certified Routes of Braniff International"
Braniff was awarded several routes continental USA to Hawaii that they never flew - like Miami,
but they still showed these on their system route map

More info here:
Braniff's Routes To Hawaii At First (by doulasc Sep 6 2012 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2012-12-22 15:23:29]

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: jfk777
Posted 2012-12-22 15:33:50 and read 5234 times.

Harding Lawrence had dreams of Braniff flying to Tokyo and London from all over the USA, it was not to be. Boston to LGW would have anchored the whole system from there. DFW had 747's going all over Europe too. DFW to LGW was the only viable route. Braniff was also flying 747SP to Seoul and Singapore, conquering two oceans costs lots of money Braniff didn't have. After Europe some 747 were flying in Latin America.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: superjeff
Posted 2012-12-22 16:10:18 and read 5070 times.

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 8):
I honestly see how they could try London, but really, 747s to BRU, or even AMS, strike me as crazy marketing. I'd love to know what sort of loads they were getting.

Don't forget that Braniff also flew Concorde - the only U.S. carrier to do so, in a lease arrangement with BA and AF. They leased the plane after arriving in IAD from LHR or CDG, and flew IAD-DFW-IAD as a tag-on interchange service. Braniff did a lot with the orange 747 fleet (when I worked there, it was called the "Great Pumpkin," "Big Orange," or "Super Carrot"). They also had another 747-100 on order which they didn't take up (it ultimately went to Wardair Canada). That was green and was known variously as "Super pickle" or "the gherkin."

Braniff did a lot of good things and most of them worked. And I agree with CaptainEd388 - Splash of Colors (written by a Braniff captain) was a great read.

Jeff

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-22 16:35:15 and read 4973 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Unfortunately Braniff operated many routes that had very little demand. They began service on many routes (SEL, HKG, SIN, GUM) simply because they were the only routes where they could obtain traffic rights. They did the same thing on domestic routes after deregulation, meaning almost empty aircraft on many routes.

The lynch pin to those Pacific routes was to acquire authority to TYO--that never materialized. 747-SP's were flying to SEL, GUM and HKG with 40 people--not sustainable and as a result, were the first to collapse, as was the LAX crew base.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 26):

That initial batch was the infamous "Dormant Authority" route grab where airline reps lined up outside the CAB office to put in their requests for dormant routes, being so desperate for expansion ops. Most found out WHY those authorities were dormant.

The morning after the route awards were announced we all looked at each other and said "Well, we'll either be the biggest or the brokest." Turned out to be the latter. Lawrence felt that deregulation was going to be an instant failure and would be retracted, grandfathering in those airlines that had started service. Obviously, he was incorrect.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 30):

Don't forget that Braniff also flew Concorde - the only U.S. carrier to do so, in a lease arrangement with BA and AF. They leased the plane after arriving in IAD from LHR or CDG, and flew IAD-DFW-IAD as a tag-on interchange service. Braniff did a lot with the orange 747 fleet (when I worked there, it was called the "Great Pumpkin," "Big Orange," or "Super Carrot"). They also had another 747-100 on order which they didn't take up (it ultimately went to Wardair Canada). That was green and was known variously as "Super pickle" or "the gherkin."

I was among the first crews qualified on Concorde--I still have my Concorde Flight Manual. We did the FAA proving flights to places like LBB, AMA and OKC. We had a second officer who was so enamoured with the airpane that he had studied and one day at briefing he told us "You know, Concorde can maintain pressurization with any two passenger windowns blown out." Our captain, a good ol' Texas boy, said "That's 'cause them windows are gonna be plugged with passengers heads." We roarded. We went to LBB and they let the kids out of school to see the plane. The crew took the opportunity to grab a burger in the airport restaurant but we couldn't eat--people kept coming up and asking for out autographs which made us giggle.

To the best of my knowledge, that second 747-127 was never actually painted in BN colors. It did go to Wardair with the Braniff interior intact. In 1978 or early '79, our aircraft scheduled to fly to LGW was down with maintenance and it just so happened that Harding Lawrence wanted to go to LGW that night. He threw a level 5 hissy fit! He DEMANDED that he be flown that night to LGW on a BRANIFF flight. So marketing went to Wardair and wet leased a 747-200 for one round trip. Myself and one other BN f/a were the only Braniff crew working the flight alongside the Wardair crews. It was very disconcertng to walk on their airplane and see OUR interior! I did the announcements, welcoming everyone aboard Braniff International flight 602 to LGW, etc. The aircraft was configured all coach and Harding sat in A zone--the rest of his row was vacant. At the end of the flight he came up and thanked Nelleke and I for a very nice trip and off he walked. We wondered how much Braniff paid to make "the boss" happy. Cause if Harding wasn't happy NOONE was happy.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-22 16:47:42 and read 4930 times.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 27):
Eastern did have a force in BOS. I believe that we built a very impressive new terminal. I was there for the opening day. If my memory recalls, it was very beautiful. Don't know if it is still there. They also had a store where you could pick out a live lobster, have it packaged, and take it home. Afraid I couldn't do it now.

EA's terminal in BOS was extraordinary. I do recall being able to pick up the boxes packed with live lobsters! And Legal Seafood had KILLER chower ("chowdah"). Terminal E was kind of an odd design--check in on one level and then three floors up were the gates with some VERY long walks to actually get to the jetways. The Mezzanine level was really nice--it was where the Braniff Club was located as well as flight operations and the crew lounge.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-22 16:56:49 and read 4902 times.

Braniff and their HNL authority is a complex subject. They showed it on the printed schedules as nonstop but in reality, you had to go to DFW and change planes. The sole exception was ATL-DFW which operated as BN501, a 727 from ATL to DFW but then the same flight number continued onto HNL with the 747.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: Capt.Fantastic
Posted 2012-12-22 19:29:49 and read 4380 times.

I recall reading somewhere that load factors on Braniff's 747 flights between Boston and Europe were poor, at times flying nearly empty. From my understanding, the cost of maintaining and operating these jumbos contributed to the airline's substantial debt.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-22 19:54:50 and read 4291 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 29):

Harding Lawrence

He totally misunderstood Deregulation. He was convinced it would be a failure (maybe he was right after all!), and grabbed everything he could for Braniff. His though was when it failed, they would be able to fly to all the cities they wanted to, because they had the route authority.

They always made money in South America, sadly it was sold off to EA. I often wonder if what they had done had been a success where they would be today. They were so innovative. Too bad they didn't survive.

It's also very interesting to see how Concorde was operated between IAD and DFW and what had to be done each and every day to make it work!

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-23 04:21:41 and read 3957 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 33):
Braniff and their HNL authority is a complex subject.

I know on the day of deregulation, 12/15/78 is the timetable to have for BN, alas mine was ruined in storage. The new service from PDX/SEA to HNL meant there was a short lived premium service to the Islands, (less than a year) I know you could get the 747 as a tag between PDX & SEA, not sure where those 747's came from, but were cool to see here at PDX. I wish I had a shot of the route map from that timetable still, if someone does, could you post it please? The only one I have showing this service is on departedflights.com

http://www.departedflights.com/BN070179.html

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: CF-CPI
Posted 2012-12-23 05:06:28 and read 3925 times.

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 34):
From my understanding, the cost of maintaining and operating these jumbos contributed to the airline's substantial debt.

I had forgotten what a hodge podge of 747s they had: a single -127, a -227 and miscellaneous second-hand ships from various sources, as an earlier poster said. In the best of circumstances, it might have been difficult, but some of them were early builds, to different specifications.

Speaking of which, I heard that the leased LH ships retained the old LH seats in them. F class got the BN leather treatment, but economy had the LH cloth seats. This was probably not the best showcase for their international product.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-23 05:43:18 and read 3890 times.

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 37):
Speaking of which, I heard that the leased LH ships retained the old LH seats in them. F class got the BN leather treatment, but economy had the LH cloth seats. This was probably not the best showcase for their international product.

It is true the the original LH coach seats were installed--but I don't recall there being leather seats in FC--might gave been but the aircraft looked pretty shabby. All still had the old overhead projectors in A, C, D, and E zone for movies.

But at that time there were no 747's available for lease so BN had to take what they could get. They very nearly got one from Royal Air Maroc but that fell apart at the last minute. Sometimes they had to take an airplane for just a few weeks or months like N6667 from AA and one from CP Air. But manuals had to be written for each aircraft anyway as there was no standardization. A VERY expensive proposition.

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 34):
I recall reading somewhere that load factors on Braniff's 747 flights between Boston and Europe were poor, at times flying nearly empty. From my understanding, the cost of maintaining and operating these jumbos contributed to the airline's substantial debt.

Absolutely not true. Load factors to FRA and BRU were always very high. AMS and ORY (especially) ran some seasonal low loads but were generally in the 70-75% area. It was hard to get on a FRA flight.

There were many reasons for Braniff's demise: its own errors in judgement, high interest rates, an egotistical and thereby poor management, poor marketing, AA moving to DFW and literally overlaying Braniff's entire domestic system and towards the end, Braniff refusing to pay its bills (obviously trying to hoard cash for a post-bankruptcy restart). In February, 1982 the fuel companies in many cities refused credit to the company and the captain carried huge rolls of hundred dollar bills to pay for the fuel. About that same time I was working a MIA-DFW flight around lunch time when the caterer came onboard and told me he had been ordered to return the truck to the kitchen with the food as Marriott had not been paid. That was NOT fun explaining to a plane full of hungry people why they were not getting lunch.

The subject of various tricks and maneuvers played by AA have been gone into many times on A.net and need not be repeated here.

The funny thing is that BN had plenty of money but kept quiet about it--nearly $200 million in uncollected funds owed to the company. About 6 months after the BK filing, the treasurer was found dead in a west Texas field with twenty-some odd stab wounds. It was ruled as "accidental" death.

There is still a lot about BN's demise that has not been told.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: Citationjet
Posted 2012-12-23 06:09:38 and read 3867 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 36):
not sure where those 747's came from, but were cool to see here at PDX.

According to the November 1978 Braniff company newsletter the B-Liner, the company leased a third 747 for 3 years to start this HNL service. The SEA/PDX to HNL service started on October 29, 1978, when BN took over from PanAm, when they discontinued the service. Braniff's flight left SEA at 11:15 am, arriving non-stop to HNL at 3:05 pm, on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. On the other days of the week, the flight stopped in PDX, then to HNL, arriving at 4:15 pm.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: ord
Posted 2012-12-23 06:50:19 and read 3837 times.

Remember, too, that the Boston to Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris and Frankfurt flights only operated nonstop twice per week. Not exactly a robust schedule.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: rampart
Posted 2012-12-23 07:10:29 and read 3795 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
Braniff's code was BN, not BI which is Royal Brunei Airlines.

In the same way that some people refer to Southwest as SW, Braniff International was BI. It was their logo, after all. Not everyone is a travel agent or airline code nerd. I give the guy, who worked for them, the benefit of a doubt. In other words, I knew what he meant... and relax.

-Rampart

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2012-12-23 07:20:53 and read 3790 times.

I remember Terminal A (the old EA) was quite a functional but stylish building for its time. It was open and bright compared to the bunker feeling of B and the split pier functional shortcomings of C.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 32):
The Mezzanine level was really nice--it was where the Braniff Club was located as well as flight operations and the crew lounge.

Was the original BN crew lounge where the old NW crew lounge was located?

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-23 08:19:36 and read 3744 times.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 42):
Was the original BN crew lounge where the old NW crew lounge was located?

No, the original Braniff crew lounge was located just above the ticket counter. You took that stairway against the right wall and went up one level and turned left and there was a locked unmarked door activated with what we called our "crash and burn Card." It was a titanium metal ID card embossed with your name, clock number and date of hire. Theoretically you were supposed to have it on your person at all times onboard the airplane just in case for identification purposes. In actuality it was really used as an access card to restricted areas. Inside the lounge there was an internal stairway that lead down to flight operations and rest rooms that were located behind the ticket counter.

The NW crew lounge was located down the concourse as though you were walking towards Terminal D on the jetway level. I think at some point, though, they moved it. It has been a number of years since I was in that lounge.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-23 08:21:28 and read 3731 times.

Quoting rampart (Reply 41):
In the same way that some people refer to Southwest as SW, Braniff International was BI. It was their logo, after all. Not everyone is a travel agent or airline code nerd. I give the guy, who worked for them, the benefit of a doubt. In other words, I knew what he meant... and relax.

Thanks, Rampart. We both knew what I meant but there are those on here that delight in the details.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: EASTERN747
Posted 2012-12-23 11:04:13 and read 3646 times.

Sorry, but I haven't been back to BOS in years. Is the building still there. I might be crazy but I think DL had a new building too. My memory may be faulty. I was management rep. on a turn around charter from Bos-Msy-Bos-msy-Bos to pick up Veterans of Foreign wars returning from their convention in MSY. It was a full airplane (L10ll) so I had to ride the jump seat in the cockpit. I was never F/A quailified, so no f/s jumpseat. The last trip back to Bos we had to pass over/through several thunder storms. WOW, I always remember that trip. The jump seat was behind the Captain and high with a big window. After landing we had to go over an active runway to get to the terminal. Now I heard ATC told us to hold for landing traffic. It was night and you could see the lights. I don't think the Capt heard and he pushed the throttles up and we started to cross the runway. Slowly of course from a stand still. Heard ATC...."TW123, prepare to go around, traffic on runway, ie US!!!!! Scared the crap out of me. Oh yes, the Capt. was a small guy, with small arms and wrists. It was awsome see those tiny arms move that L1011.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-24 01:32:41 and read 3342 times.

Quoting Citationjet (Reply 39):
According to the November 1978 Braniff company newsletter the B-Liner, the company leased a third 747 for 3 years to start this HNL service. The SEA/PDX to HNL service started on October 29, 1978, when BN took over from PanAm, when they discontinued the service. Braniff's flight left SEA at 11:15 am, arriving non-stop to HNL at 3:05 pm, on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. On the other days of the week, the flight stopped in PDX, then to HNL, arriving at 4:15 pm

Thanks citationjet, I never knew that info, what did BN do with that leased aircraft? I take it that plane routed through HNL back to LAX and DFW? I rode the 747 between SEA & PDX once, but never to HNL. I wish it would have stuck around, but the loads were abysmal except for the holiday time from what I heard.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-24 07:47:07 and read 3231 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 46):
Thanks citationjet, I never knew that info, what did BN do with that leased aircraft? I take it that plane routed through HNL back to LAX and DFW? I rode the 747 between SEA & PDX once, but never to HNL. I wish it would have stuck around, but the loads were abysmal except for the holiday time from what I heard.

Not sure which particular aircraft that was but eventually all of the leased aircraft were returned to their owners. The World 747CF was converted back to a freighter and flew for many years with Korean. To the best of my knowledge it never flew pax again. The two former LH ships were returned to (IIRC) ILFC and, of course, AA recalimed both of theirs. Interestingly, they would not let Braniff paint their airplanes. They just had a cheatine stripe and a black "BI" logo on the tail and "Braniff International" in black above the windows. I know that one of them went to Viasa and one eventually passed through Tranamerica to British Caledonian.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-24 07:56:21 and read 3227 times.

Quoting rampart (Reply 41):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
Braniff's code was BN, not BI which is Royal Brunei Airlines.

In the same way that some people refer to Southwest as SW, Braniff International was BI. It was their logo, after all. Not everyone is a travel agent or airline code nerd. I give the guy, who worked for them, the benefit of a doubt. In other words, I knew what he meant... and relax.

I also knew what he or she meant. I was just clarifying that BI wasn't their official code for those who may not know. Many (possibly most) people reading this thread probably weren't even alive when BN went bust.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2012-12-24 08:58:18 and read 3178 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 43):
The NW crew lounge was located down the concourse as though you were walking towards Terminal D on the jetway level. I think at some point, though, they moved it. It has been a number of years since I was in that lounge.

Thanks for the info DTW!! Yea, that is where I remember Inflight before I left the Company in 06. I have heard from a few flying partners at my current airline that the metal 'dog tag' card was pretty common in the 70s and 80s as an extreme just in case measure.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-24 12:13:24 and read 3089 times.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 38):
The funny thing is that BN had plenty of money but kept quiet about it--nearly $200 million in uncollected funds owed to the company. About 6 months after the BK filing, the treasurer was found dead in a west Texas field with twenty-some odd stab wounds. It was ruled as "accidental" death.

There is still a lot about BN's demise that has not been told.

Were they to file today, they would continue to operate. South America always was a gold mine for them. Too bad
the folks that took over didn't get that. Braniff was a family. I wonder what things would be like had they merged
with NW. Too bad NW only wanted planes.

Topic: RE: Braniff In Boston
Username: ScottB
Posted 2012-12-25 09:11:11 and read 2831 times.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 45):
Sorry, but I haven't been back to BOS in years. Is the building still there.

No, the old Eastern Terminal A was demolished about 10 years ago and replaced with Delta's new Terminal A. The old Terminal A was in pretty bad shape in the late 1990's; IIRC there were issues with chunks of concrete falling from the structure. While the main terminal structure was large and spacious, the gate wings were a bit claustrophobic.


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