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Topic: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: tioloko100
Posted 2012-12-18 13:07:36 and read 14806 times.

Well, its illegal to smoke on most commercial airlines these days but is jailing someone for 10 years for smoking in the aircraft and unruly behaviour not extreme? or a sign of good measures?

http://flyingactive.com/content/94-m...-years-jail-over-flight-abuse.html

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: SCQ83
Posted 2012-12-18 13:11:36 and read 14802 times.

Not only for smoking:

"before punching and spitting on crew members"

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: HALFA
Posted 2012-12-18 13:24:47 and read 14704 times.

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):

Well, its illegal to smoke on most commercial airlines these days but is jailing someone for 10 years for smoking in the aircraft and unruly behaviour not extreme?

Did you even read the article? Your topic heading is a bit rich. Had he just attempted a smoke aboard the aircraft, he would have faced a maximum 2 years in prison with fines. This passenger took things much further. He physically assaulted members of the flight crew, which led QF to divert the flight, costing QF thousands of dollars. This is why he is now facing 10 years in prison.
I say throw the book at him.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: SonomaFlyer
Posted 2012-12-18 13:25:51 and read 14700 times.

To the OP, kindly read the article! Smoking on an aircraft is a maximum of two years confinement. Assaulting/interfering with a flight crew is ten years.

He deserves to do some time given what he did.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: airevents
Posted 2012-12-18 14:01:41 and read 14495 times.

From my point of view the jail term for smoking on board just cannot be long enough. These people are, in a bad case, putting some 300, 400 lifes at risk. Doesn´t that merit a hefty fine?

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Ruscoe
Posted 2012-12-18 14:23:22 and read 14406 times.

Quoting airevents (Reply 5):
From my point of view the jail term for smoking on board just cannot be long enough. These people are, in a bad case, putting some 300, 400 lifes at risk. Doesn´t that merit a hefty fine?

As much as I agree with you about smoking, I am old enough to remember when smoking on aircraft was unrestricted, and in the main these were aircraft types which are still arounf 707,727,737,747 and A300, 310, and I am unaware it was a major flight risk.

I doubt more modern designs such as the 380, 777 are more vulnerable to fire damage than the earlier ones.

The biggest problem is that cabin air is heavily recirculated so everyone gets a dose of the carcinogens etc. plus the usual burn marks in seats and dumpers left anywhere and everywhere.

Cheers

Ruscoe

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: strandedinbgm
Posted 2012-12-18 14:24:55 and read 14393 times.

An eye for an eye, that's what I say.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: yyz717
Posted 2012-12-18 14:29:55 and read 14372 times.

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):
is jailing someone for 10 years for smoking in the aircraft and unruly behaviour not extreme? or a sign of good measures?

10 years for assault is appropriate. The smoking angle reinforces that he is a rule-breaker and legitimizes the 10-year sentence as punishment for planned, rogue behaviour.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-18 14:40:15 and read 14290 times.

I say the punishment should fit the crime. To me this does not sound like the maximum degree of assault, so a maximum sentence would be inappropriate (except as an exemplary sentence).

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Ruscoe
Posted 2012-12-18 14:44:15 and read 14263 times.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 8):
for planned, rogue behaviour.

How do you know this?

My point in my original post was to offer alternative explanations for this type of behaviour, whilst not attempting to justify the behaviour, but to understand it.

Do you know how you would react in an hypoxic state with alcohol on board?

I did some hypobaric runs in the "chamber". It is quite revealing. We were given a sheet of 50 or so simple arithmetic sums to do. The chamber was depressurised to 30,000 ft, the air filled with mist momentarily, and then we commenced the sums.
I thought I aced it, but once back at sea level, I could see that I got the first half dozen correct, but the rest was garbage.

IMO a lot of problems with passenger behaviour on aircraft, are a combination of low pressur, hypoxia, dehydration, and effects of alcohol.

This is something airlines should try to manage, rather than react to.

Ruscoe

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: northstardc4m
Posted 2012-12-18 15:54:46 and read 14044 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 10):
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 8):
for planned, rogue behaviour.

How do you know this?

Lit cigarettes do not just magically appear in your hand/mouth. You have to plan to smoke. This makes it a premeditated act. In Canada it makes the entire crime premeditated, I would assume Australian law would be the same as it has the same basis, but not sure on that...

If you are hypoxic to the point of loss of faculties on a commercial airlines something is seriously wrong.
8000' pressure is not enough to make you more than a little tired, and should not have noticeable effect on anyones mental abilities unless they are otherwise impaired.

Nicotine addiction on the other hand... people do really screwy things when hit with withdrawal symptoms, but it's not an excuse.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: RickNRoll
Posted 2012-12-18 16:01:31 and read 14010 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 10):
IMO a lot of problems with passenger behaviour on aircraft, are a combination of low pressur, hypoxia, dehydration, and effects of alcohol.

I think the alcohol is more his problem than hypoxia or dehydration. According to other news reports on this, his court case had to be delayed till the afternoon because he turned up to the court drunk.

He was also drinking from a bottle of vodka he smuggled on to the plane, which was why he was so intoxicated.

[Edited 2012-12-18 16:04:58]

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: prebennorholm
Posted 2012-12-18 17:29:44 and read 13778 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 6):
I am old enough to remember when smoking on aircraft was unrestricted, and in the main these were aircraft types which are still around 707,727,737,747 and A300, 310, and I am unaware it was a major flight risk.

Back in the 50'es and well into the 70'es SAS flew a couple of dozen Convair 440 airliners. Good planes, but as any other plane they had their snags which sometimes required unplanned maintenance.

One of the snags was fluctuating cabin pressure. When that happened, then they knew it was time to clean off tar and nicotine on the outflow pressure valve.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Quokkas
Posted 2012-12-18 18:15:42 and read 13655 times.

I doubt that the passenger will be sentenced to ten years, particularly if he has no previous convictions. You don't even get ten years for manslaughter so a punch and spitting, while completely unacceptable, would likely result in a lower penalty than the maximum.

I do believe it is appropriate, given the diversion cost QF $120,000 that an order for restitution should be made.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: EK413
Posted 2012-12-18 20:43:11 and read 13289 times.

On 17 December a Qantas flight from Sydney to Tokyo diverted to Cairns to offload an unruly passenger for poor and threatening behaviour towards passengers and crew. Qantas crew did an excellent job managing this situation and bringing it under control. The Australian Federal Police (AFP) met the aircraft in Cairns to take the passenger into custody and the flight continued to Tokyo. This is an extreme and rare event but we have a zero tolerance approach for anti-social behaviour, and any actions that could compromise the safety of anyone on our aircraft. Following the incident, the AFP has warned that unruly passengers will now face charges. In 2011/12, the AFP responded to more than 1,000 alcohol-related incidents at major airports and charged 145 people with various offences.

EK413

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: DeltaMD90
Posted 2012-12-18 21:01:15 and read 13238 times.

I'm all for banning troublesome passengers from flights (that don't have a mental disability) but 10 years?! IIRC, sometimes rape won't even carry that charge! Intent has a huge part in all this... was he trying to blow up the plane? No? Then **** 10 years, ban him from the flight, maybe... (I know punching/spitting has something to do with it  

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: AirAfreak
Posted 2012-12-19 00:46:21 and read 12472 times.

I think the fair sentence would be 2 years in prison (as per Australian Law for smoking) and every individual on that plane whom he assaulted (punching and spitting) should reciprocate those behaviors towards him.

No one asked to be spit on or punched on that aircraft.

And please keep the anti-/pro- American comments to yourself. No need to use this for reference or comparison on an aviation forum.

Bon Voyage,

AirAfreak

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Dogbreath
Posted 2012-12-19 00:55:02 and read 12485 times.

For those on here stating that this sentence of 10 years is a bit harsh, can I ask how many of you have been in an aircraft that has had an inflight smoke event (or inflight cabin fire)? I'd imagine with some of the comments on here - NONE.

In my 26 year flying career, I've had 2 inflight smoke events. None of them from smoking, but from electrical faults that led to immediate diversions whilst we carried out the relevant checklist/s, which included on one flight cracking the doors to evacuate the smoke. Those 2 events have been the most traumatic events of my flying career and something I never wish to have repeated. I take smoking onboard very seriously, and have the offender offloaded with the Police and follow it up with a civil charge.

Quoting airevents (Reply 5):
From my point of view the jail term for smoking on board just cannot be long enough. These people are, in a bad case, putting some 300, 400 lifes at risk. Doesn´t that merit a hefty fine?

Can't agree more.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 6):
As much as I agree with you about smoking, I am old enough to remember when smoking on aircraft was unrestricted, and in the main these were aircraft types which are still arounf 707,727,737,747 and A300, 310, and I am unaware it was a major flight risk.

Yes, but you have to remember that back in those days, smoking was accepted and there were plenty of ashtrays to place the cigarette ash and stub. There are usually no ashtrays today and with the blanket law on no smoking, the inflight smokers take their habit to the toilets, (in most cases), and dump the ash and stub into the waste bin, which surprisingly is full of waste paper. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out the danger in that scenario.

It took less than 13 minutes for the Swissair flight near Halifax to lose control and crash after the discovery of smoke onboard caused by an IFE fault. A frightening scenario!

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: cmf
Posted 2012-12-19 03:17:45 and read 11419 times.

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 24):
I think the fair sentence would be 2 years in prison

Why 2 years?

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 24):
And please keep the anti-/pro- American comments to yourself. No need to use this for reference or comparison on an aviation forum.

Why the call for suppressing references?

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 25):
For those on here stating that this sentence of 10 years is a bit harsh, can I ask how many of you have been in an aircraft that has had an inflight smoke event (or inflight cabin fire)? I'd imagine with some of the comments on here - NONE.

I have fortunately not been in that situation. I have been in buildings filled with smoke due to fire. Once in an underground facility where the emergency exit we tried to use was locked. I also spent 2 years installing fire detection systems. Not that it matters.

Two questions for you: Why is 10 years not too harsh? What does such a sentence accomplish?

I don't think 10 years is more of a deterrent than a shorter sentence to others.

I don't think 10 years is more effective than a shorter sentence at preventing him from repeating next time he is on a plane.

The monetary cost to society for keeping him prisoned 10 years is very high.

Depending on the specifics of each case societies costs due to him not being able to support his family may be even higher.

Depending on his job there may be significant costs to his employer.

I'm not saying this is acceptable or that there shouldn't be consequences. What I am saying is that a 10 year sentence provide nothing more than a significantly shorter sentence but costs a lot more to everyone else.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2012-12-19 03:29:34 and read 11325 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 10):
The chamber was depressurised to 30,000 ft, the air filled with mist momentarily, and then we commenced the sums.

30,000ft air pressure is a LOT different to the 6-8000ft pressure in an aircraft.

I say throw the book at this guy... He should get 2 years for smoking (and not apologizing etc), another 2 years for threatening the safety of the aircraft/people on board, another 4 years for aggravated assault, and 2 years for resisting arrest (captains and their subordinates ie crew, have the power of arrest on aircraft). There's your 10 years to be served consecutively. He would of course be entitled to bail after something like 5 years for good behaviour.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: fiscal
Posted 2012-12-19 04:00:53 and read 10958 times.

If he is in for too long, how will he pay for the costs of the diversion? I am sure Qantas would prefer the cash, and ban him from their aircraft.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: tribird1011
Posted 2012-12-19 04:45:09 and read 10559 times.

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 25):
There are usually no ashtrays today and with the blanket law on no smoking, the inflight smokers take their habit to the toilets

Yes there are, usually on the exterior of the lavatory doors (these are mandatory), and most airlines will also place them on the interior of lavatory doors (these are optional). The reasoning behind it is that although you are not allowed to smoke inflight, you must have a safe place to extinguish a cigarette in the event someone does light up.

Looking at an A330 MEL with 6 lavatories installed, you are allowed to be missing 1 ashtray from the exterior lav door. If you are missing 2, the aircraft cannot be dispatched!!

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-19 05:40:45 and read 9940 times.

This cannot the first time that an inebriated passenger has assaulted cabin crew in an aircraft where Australia has jurisdiction. Does anyone know what penalties were applied by Australian courts after similar incidents?

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Farzan
Posted 2012-12-19 05:44:24 and read 9910 times.

Quoting tribird1011 (Reply 29):

Now, this I enjoy. Somebody actually knowing what they are talking about contrary to Dogbreath who for 26 years of "flying career" does not.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Skyguy
Posted 2012-12-19 05:49:25 and read 9871 times.

On the subject of smoking on aircraft, which airline first banned smoking in aircraft and when? And is there any airline that still allows smoking on board today? (I know JL allowed smoking on board till well into the 1990's, Saudi Arabian I heard was a holdout but not sure if they've banned smoking now)

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: 26point2
Posted 2012-12-19 06:58:14 and read 9381 times.

@skyguy

The first I remember was VA on the NATL routes. They allowed smoking on the Asia routes for a few more years I believe. Not sure if VA was the first but it seemed ground breaking and bold at the time...ca. 1990?

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Birdwatching
Posted 2012-12-19 08:02:42 and read 8766 times.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 6):
As much as I agree with you about smoking, I am old enough to remember when smoking on aircraft was unrestricted, and in the main these were aircraft types which are still arounf 707,727,737,747 and A300, 310, and I am unaware it was a major flight risk.

Wasn't there an aircraft (I think DC9) in Canada some decades ago that landed with a burning cigarette in the lav trash bin, and as soon as they popped the cabin doors the oxygen got in and within seconds the whole cabin was on fire and everybody died?
Some people will always say smoking on planes was fine back in the golden days, but it is still a substantial safety and health risk.

Soren   

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-12-19 08:28:28 and read 8559 times.

IIRC that was an AC flight which landed at CVG, burning. Aircraft DC9

Interesting to follow that countries with AngloSaxon law have more severe punishments than countries with Roman law.

What good dos it do to lock someone away for 10 years just because he smoked a cigarette and assaulted flight attendants? OK, it coulkd have resulted..... But that is like having someone who slapped the face of a person for life bacuse he could have killled, You get convicted for what you HAVE done, not for what you COULD have done.

Then, the airline can sue the guy for paying the costs of diversion. makes sense if he has money. Otherwise not. In cae he would get sentenced to 10 years he could go into voluntary bankcruptcy while serving his time and be free of liabilities after 6 or 7 years.

With the shorter sentences we have here in Germany, people usually collect their social security and never have to work again.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: brilondon
Posted 2012-12-19 08:52:36 and read 8235 times.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 2):

Quoting tioloko100 (Thread starter):

Well, its illegal to smoke on most commercial airlines these days but is jailing someone for 10 years for smoking in the aircraft and unruly behaviour not extreme?

Did you even read the article? Your topic heading is a bit rich. Had he just attempted a smoke aboard the aircraft, he would have faced a maximum 2 years in prison with fines. This passenger took things much further. He physically assaulted members of the flight crew, which led QF to divert the flight, costing QF thousands of dollars. This is why he is now facing 10 years in prison.
I say throw the book at him.
Quoting art (Reply 8):

I say the punishment should fit the crime. To me this does not sound like the maximum degree of assault, so a maximum sentence would be inappropriate (except as an exemplary sentence).
Quoting Skyguy (Reply 26):
On the subject of smoking on aircraft, which airline first banned smoking in aircraft and when? And is there any airline that still allows smoking on board today? (I know JL allowed smoking on board till well into the 1990's, Saudi Arabian I heard was a holdout but not sure if they've banned smoking now)

In 1977, Aurigny was the first airline in the world to ban smoking.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: falstaff
Posted 2012-12-19 10:30:33 and read 7228 times.

Quoting airevents (Reply 4):
From my point of view the jail term for smoking on board just cannot be long enough. These people are, in a bad case, putting some 300, 400 lifes at risk. Doesn´t that merit a hefty fine?

Pilots used to smoke in the cockpit, I have an old Eastern Airlines promotional film showing it. Smoking on aircraft was banned for air quality reasons.

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/17/us...ing-ban-near-on-flights-in-us.html

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 5):
, I am old enough to remember when smoking on aircraft was unrestricted, and in the main these were aircraft types which are still arounf 707,727,737,747 and A300, 310, and I am unaware it was a major flight risk.

The 757 and 767 were around in the days of a smoke filled cabin too. I remember ashtrays in 757s, but I had not flown on the type until after the ban. I did fly on a NW 757 back in 2002 that had several cigarette butts in the ashtray of my seat (which was in F). I wondered if those butts had been there many years or was somebody smoking while they were working on the aircraft.

[Edited 2012-12-19 10:33:48]

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-19 10:40:10 and read 7120 times.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 26):
Wasn't there an aircraft (I think DC9) in Canada some decades ago that landed with a burning cigarette in the lav trash bin, and as soon as they popped the cabin doors the oxygen got in and within seconds the whole cabin was on fire and everybody died?

Not everyone died. There were 23 survivors of the 46 aboard. And all 5 crew all survived. And the cause of the fire was never determined to be a cigarette.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19830602-1

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-12-19 11:32:46 and read 6586 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 27):
You get convicted for what you HAVE done, not for what you COULD have done.

I don't necessarily agree with this sentiment. If the POTENTIAL consequences of a given inappropriate behavior are serious enough it eventually makes sense to mete out the same punishment whether the consequence actually occurs or not. A given behavior shouldn't necessarily garner less punishment simply because the offender is (or more accurately the victims are) relatively 'lucky'.

For instance if someone deliberately drove a car into a crowd of people but inexplicably failed to seriously injure anyone, it might make sense to punish him/her as though they had. Likewise, we should be a lot harder on drunk drivers...not just when their luck (and the luck of their victims) finally runs out one sorry night.

I realize the laws don't currently work that way, but I believe they should...within reasonable limits. The whole slapping someone = murder because it could theoretically have caused death is not what I am talking about.

Following that rationale, I believe the harshness of punishment applied to this guy should match the degree to which we want to deter the assault of cabin crews, period. Things like lack of specific intent to cause harm would be factors in extenuation to be considered at trial, IMO.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 27):
Interesting to follow that countries with AngloSaxon law have more severe punishments than countries with Roman law.

That correlation could be completely meaningless, but a good hypothesis would be that Anglo Saxon law's evolutionary nature leaves it susceptible to 'sentence creep' in response to perceived societal threats.

Personally...Anglo Saxon or Roman, I think the law should hammer the hell out of transgressors. I've followed the rules my whole life and am tired of having the freedom and quality of everything consistently revised downward to account for those who can't get their act together.

[Edited 2012-12-19 12:08:59]

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-12-19 13:46:32 and read 5611 times.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 31):
I don't necessarily agree with this sentiment.

Well, it is not what you or I agree on. An attempted murder is punished less than a murder and you cannot punish someone who smoked on board of an aircraft as if he was a mass murderer.

We jhave different sets of law, in most European countries the sentences are much less than in the US., that is a fact IMHO on a scale of 1-10 we (Germany) are at 2 and the US is at 10. We should meet somewhere between 3 and 4.

But 10 years, for the case discessed here, is gross and certainly the maximum possible. Don't know what he actually gets and then serves, here he would go free on probation, with a fine probably. No jail.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: ZKOKQ
Posted 2012-12-19 14:33:38 and read 5561 times.

I hope QF goes after the diversion costs. In cases like this, it should be written into the ticket condition's you pay. Medical and emergency diversions are different and shouldn't incur a cost.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: SmittyOne
Posted 2012-12-19 14:50:17 and read 5529 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 32):
Well, it is not what you or I agree on.

And that we must agree on LOL

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 32):
An attempted murder is punished less than a murder

Which logically never made much sense to me. If a person has a genuine intent to kill, tries in earnest but fails in the attempt I don't see why we wouldn't want to apply the same level of deterrent (ie jail time) to that behavior that we would had the would-be murderer been successful.

I think the natural result of this inconsistency is that we're now more inclined to pursue 'attempted murder' charges in the case of an assault than we would be otherwise. In other words, if the reason the murder attempt was not successful was because the person really didn't (deep down) intend to kill, then it's not attempted murder even though that is what the District Attorney may seek in trial!

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 32):
you cannot punish someone who smoked on board of an aircraft as if he was a mass murderer.

Indeed. They should be punished to whatever degree is considered necessary to prevent others from pursuing that behavior.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 32):
But 10 years, for the case discessed here, is gross and certainly the maximum possible.

Ibid!

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: fiscal
Posted 2012-12-19 14:58:57 and read 5528 times.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 29):
Smoking on aircraft was banned for air quality reasons.

I remember once flying QF in J on a 747 upstairs. The left hand side was smoking, and the right hand side was non smoking. It was a horror flight.

Another reason it was banned was for maintenance issues. The tar build up "behind the scenes" was the bane of all aircraft maintenance engineers.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: tribird1011
Posted 2012-12-19 15:51:47 and read 5440 times.

Quoting fiscal (Reply 35):
Another reason it was banned was for maintenance issues. The tar build up "behind the scenes" was the bane of all aircraft maintenance engineers

Although this is true, one benefit is that it provided maintenance technicians with a visual means of tracking pressurization (ie. leaks) problems...

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Quokkas
Posted 2012-12-19 18:45:28 and read 5297 times.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 27):
What good does it do to lock someone away for 10 years

The sentences quoted are not mandatory but maximums. In Australia there are few offences for which mandatory prison sentences are imposed and they tend to be for serious crimes like murder. Sentencing policy throughout the Commonwealth and States is actually geared to keeping people out of prison so unless the offence is of a serious nature a fine and/or community service order is normally imposed, particularly for first offences.

Legislation providing for terms of imprisonment normally stipulates a range - minimum and maximum - thereby allowing the judges to hand down a sentence based on the merits and severity of the particular offence, and taking into consideration any mitigating factors, such as attempts by the guilty to make amends, remorse, time already served, etc. This means that our system is flexible.

I don't know whether this particular passenger has any previous convictions (that won't be introduced until guilt or innocence is established so as to not prejudice the case) but if he has not gotten himself into trouble either on an aircraft or elsewhere, then it is likely that only a fine will be imposed if the assault was at the lower end of the scale. If the assault was sufficiently violent as to require hospitalisation of any of the passengers or crew - which has not been mentioned - then a prison sentence might be imposed but it likely to be at the lower end of the scale.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-19 20:51:32 and read 5182 times.

Moderators: Please change the title to possible 10 years in jail for assault on Aircraft.


Assault on an aircraft is extremely serious. If he just smoked it would have been a fine and threat of jail for a repeat offense (unless a prior offense triggered the repeat offense) would have been all that happened.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
"before punching and spitting on crew members"

Let him room with Bubba to think about how constructive that behavior was...

Quoting HALFA (Reply 2):
He physically assaulted members of the flight crew, which led QF to divert the flight, costing QF thousands of dollars. This is why he is now facing 10 years in prison.
I say throw the book at him.

Sad that it won't be 10 years thought...

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 31):
Likewise, we should be a lot harder on drunk drivers...not just when their luck (and the luck of their victims) finally runs out one sorry night.

Concur. I worked at a remote site were many complained there was a checkpoint (about 25% of the nights, all major holidays) located work-bar-checkpoint-residences. I thought it was great! In particular as the *clean* (with large but spartan rooms) hotel next to the drinking establishment had just raised their nightly fee to a mere $42/night (with all fees and taxes). DUI or $42... Ummm.... Then again I know someone with permanent back injuries from a drunk idiot driver.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-12-19 23:07:41 and read 5085 times.

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 37):
The sentences quoted are not mandatory but maximums.

Yup

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 32):
But 10 years, for the case discessed here, is gross and certainly the maximum possible. Don't know what he actually gets and then serves, here he would go free on probation, with a fine probably. No jail.

That's how it works
Probably enables the guy to pay QF for the diversion costs, at least partially.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-20 08:01:08 and read 4861 times.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 34):
if the reason the murder attempt was not successful was because the person really didn't (deep down) intend to kill, then it's not attempted murder

Depends on the law in the country concerned. IIRC in English law, for example, if you intend injuring someone (but have no intention of killing them) you may legally be guilty of murder if the person dies as a result of being assaulted by you.

This offendor - a spell in prison to send out a signal to all that assaults on cabin crew will not be tolerated and will result in severe punishment?

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: ordwaw
Posted 2012-12-20 22:53:10 and read 4547 times.

Quoting art (Reply 40):
Depends on the law in the country concerned.

If the brawl on the BA plane flying SYD-SIN segment starts and ends while the plane is flying over Indonesia and is diverted to Malaysia, what is the 'country concerned', i.e., which country has the jurisdiction over the violation.

UK because it is a British plane, Australia or Singapore because these are O&D, Indonesia because this is their airspace, Malaysia because this is where the plane diverted too. My thinking would be Indonesia, because this where it is happening, but curious to hear other opinions ...

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: art
Posted 2012-12-21 01:26:22 and read 4444 times.

Quoting ordwaw (Reply 41):
Quoting art (Reply 40):
Depends on the law in the country concerned.

If the brawl on the BA plane flying SYD-SIN segment starts and ends while the plane is flying over Indonesia and is diverted to Malaysia, what is the 'country concerned', i.e., which country has the jurisdiction over the violation.

I have no idea re: 'the country concerned' but I'm sure there will be someone on a.net who will be able to offer an answer.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2012-12-21 01:52:00 and read 4423 times.

The country that is interested. Malaysia would most likely not be interested and send the person home. Now it depends where home is and which citizenship that person holds.

When the incident happened on a BA flight, the interested country would obviously be the UK. If the person is a German citizen, he could ask for trial in Germany. Most likely the judge would turn that down or impose a small fine, depending on the income of that person, may be 90 days x amount x.

That would close the case, the UK could not put that person on trial. Extradition is possible mnow inside the EU, but in case Australia would want that person, he could not be extradited there, as this is not allowed by the basic law.,

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: a36001
Posted 2012-12-21 06:54:15 and read 4249 times.

This type of increasing behaviour make me really mad! And, well I just hope that Qantas goes this scumbag for the cost of diverting the flight! Then ban him on any Qantas group aircraft. I'd also like to see Cairns Airport go him for compensation for having to re-open the airport ( As per news.com.au the airport had to re-open to accept the flight?). Then I'd like a judge with a set of balls to take this little piece of work down a peg or two and put him away for a bit! Assaulting and spitting on anyone is absolutely unacceptable and I'm sorry but the commonly used excuse "the drink made me do it" is not going to cut it!  

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: EIDL
Posted 2012-12-21 11:43:12 and read 4155 times.

Diversionary airport's country handles the offence as far as I know. Limerick Court deals with many drunk and disorderly passengers from diverted T/A flights; notable one today of someone on BA002.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: CPDC10-30
Posted 2012-12-21 12:12:00 and read 4141 times.

I'm glad to see this crime is being punished appropriately.

The response from cabin crew on my Air Asia X flight to pax smoking twice in the lav was a stern dressing down. Really made me angry.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: MD11Engineer
Posted 2012-12-22 07:41:05 and read 3916 times.

Quoting tribird1011 (Reply 21):
Yes there are, usually on the exterior of the lavatory doors (these are mandatory), and most airlines will also place them on the interior of lavatory doors (these are optional). The reasoning behind it is that although you are not allowed to smoke inflight, you must have a safe place to extinguish a cigarette in the event someone does light up.

Actually you gave it the wrong way around. The ashtrays INSIDE the lavatory are mandatory, and the ones OUTSIDE are optional. The outside one is a practical spare if the one inside gets lost or broken, to prevent the aircraft from being grounded. Been there, got the t-shirt.

As for the punishment fitting the crime, as punishment for the assault I´d suggest to let the offender do 12 rounds behind the hangar against the big 6.5 feet, 300 lbs pure muscle bruiser with the broken nose and the cauliflower ears, who is working with the cleaner team or loading baggage (we´ve got a guy like this in our company. He is is a nice bloke in his 40s, but I wouldn´t want to pick a fight with him).

Jan

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: DTWPurserBoy
Posted 2012-12-22 08:07:30 and read 3866 times.

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 46):
The response from cabin crew on my Air Asia X flight to pax smoking twice in the lav was a stern dressing down. Really made me angry.

This is a delicate situation. frequently it is a cultural issue or a language problem. And sometimes it is just plain deliberate. In some Asian cultures smoking anywhere is just fine--other places less so.

As far as spitting and assaulting the cabin crew, they could give him the big needle for all I care. Let the word pass throughout the land--This behavior will not be tolerated. He is also subject to civil prosecution from the crew and we hve become a VERY litigious group out of necessity.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-22 13:07:15 and read 3715 times.

Quoting EIDL (Reply 45):
Diversionary airport's country handles the offence as far as I know. Limerick Court deals with many drunk and disorderly passengers from diverted T/A flights; notable one today of someone on BA002.

Also many to Canada on transatlantic flights. AA has had at least 2 unruly passenger diversions to Gander (YQX) within the past year or so, and I recall another US Airways diversion to YQX. In all 3 cases I believe the passenger was fined roughly $10,000 and ordered to reimburse the carrier around $15,000 to $20,000 to cover the cost of the diversion.

Topic: RE: 10 Years In Jail For Smoking On Board Qantas?
Username: Quokkas
Posted 2012-12-22 23:03:37 and read 3508 times.

It looks like the passenger will not be flying anywhere soon. According to a report in the West Australian he has been banned from flying on Qantas for ten years.

Now other airlines are considering whether he is a risk;

Quote:
Major airlines share the details of disruptive customers so Mr Cooke's flying future is unclear.

Sources indicate Virgin Australia will refuse to carry him because of his alleged poor behaviour.

A Tiger Airways spokeswoman said it banned passengers on a case-by-case basis but had a zero tolerance policy for disorderly behaviour on aircraft.


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