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Topic: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: commavia
Posted 2012-12-17 07:55:07 and read 9421 times.

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3609

- DFW-BOG and MIA-CWB/POA starting "late 2013"
- Codeshare with TAM and LAN Colombia

I think all of these were fairly predictable. Guess this means TAM is now surely a lock for oneworld.

[Edited 2012-12-17 07:57:39]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2012-12-17 08:24:45 and read 9300 times.

I wonder if MIA-COR will be next...AA needs more metal to fly these routes. AA is getting 3 additional gates in MIA soon.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-12-17 08:28:10 and read 9273 times.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see if POA and CWB will be non-stop or tag-ons. Will they be non-stop 757s?

I also expected to see COR next. I'd like to see CUZ again, but understand that's not very likely.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-17 08:31:36 and read 9245 times.

Man, I feel vindicated.

I have said over and over that AA needed only LIM and BOG and the South American network from DFW would be complete. That was met with some pushback in the a.net community.

With this addition, the DFW-South American network is complete. The only thing that would make it more so is if they could add frequency to the CCS and GIG flights.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: C010T3
Posted 2012-12-17 08:36:20 and read 9209 times.

It's very probable that the service to Southern Brazil will be a triangular flight MIA-CWB-POA-MIA. CWB's runway is somewhat short.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
With this addition, the DFW-South American network is complete. The only thing that would make it more so is if they could add frequency to the CCS and GIG flights.

The fact that DFW-GIG is running daily this winter is also a sign that it may see year-round increases in the near future.

[Edited 2012-12-17 08:39:37]

[Edited 2012-12-17 08:40:15]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: Tdan
Posted 2012-12-17 08:39:17 and read 9181 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
Man, I feel vindicated.

I have said over and over that AA needed only LIM and BOG and the South American network from DFW would be complete. That was met with some pushback in the a.net community.

With this addition, the DFW-South American network is complete. The only thing that would make it more so is if they could add frequency to the CCS and GIG flights.

         There's still a little room to Mexico and Central America from DFW, but I think S. America is done for a while. GIG would be the only additional point that makes sense, but I think that's a few years down the line (post-WC but pre-Olympics perhaps?).

LIM and BOG were both LONG overdue and I'm happy to see them both on the route map. I would not be surprised to see a 763 on DFWLIM when more shells come available.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: runway23
Posted 2012-12-17 08:41:40 and read 9162 times.

Realistically what is left now for AA in Brazil ? I would think the next destinations will be VCP, FOR, NAT ?

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: avi8
Posted 2012-12-17 08:42:23 and read 9149 times.

AA added a second flight to GUA on Saturdays from DFW. My guess is they are testing to see if it works so that maybe add that second frequency on other days of the week.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2012-12-17 08:53:26 and read 9066 times.

Good to see AA having some cautious growth!

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LDVAviation
Posted 2012-12-17 09:04:52 and read 9004 times.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
I think all of these were fairly predictable. Guess this means TAM is now surely a lock for oneworld.

The WSJ reported last week that IAG (BA/IB) and LATAM were still negotiating the parts of their deal, but that the final agreement is more or less a forgone conclusion.

[Edited 2012-12-17 09:05:22]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: PRAirbus
Posted 2012-12-17 09:10:41 and read 8948 times.

If LATAM had no intentions of staying in oneworld they would'nt be enhancing agreements w/AA!

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-17 09:18:41 and read 8897 times.

Quoting Tdan (Reply 5):
There's still a little room to Mexico and Central America from DFW, but I think S. America is done for a while. GIG would be the only additional point that makes sense, but I think that's a few years down the line (post-WC but pre-Olympics perhaps?).

LIM and BOG were both LONG overdue and I'm happy to see them both on the route map. I would not be surprised to see a 763 on DFWLIM when more shells come available.

Agreed wholely.

Im the biggest DFW fan on this forum, but Id like to think Im somewhat realistic on what could be done. I know that smaller destinations in South America arent really possible. Destinations like UIO, GYE, MVD are not feasible.

Like I said earlier, outside of LIM and BOG, being able to add frequency to CCS and GIG would be the only addition things I would like to see.

In Central America and Mexico, there is definately room for more. Having a plane like the E190 would be great for expansion to cities like SAP, MGA, or TGU while allowing destinations like PTY to be daily.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: jmw99ttu
Posted 2012-12-17 09:20:21 and read 8882 times.

Will the BOG flight be operated on the new A319s? Many have speculated that this would be the right plane for the mission. I'm happy to see AA continue to expand from DFW, but I sure would have enjoyed seeing some LAN metal here.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-17 09:27:03 and read 8852 times.

Service from Miami to Porto Alegre/Curtiba has been in the works for a while now. Last I heard it would be a triangular routing; CWB can't take a non-stop to MIA. It will be a 767-300ER.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: BoeingGuy
Posted 2012-12-17 09:38:04 and read 8789 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Destinations like UIO, GYE, MVD are not feasible.

Why is DFW-UIO not feasible, or perhaps something like DFW-UIO-GYE-DFW? Isn't UIO a large South American destination?

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-17 09:38:16 and read 8788 times.

Outside of Brazil and Argentina, AA has struggled with routes from DFW to South America. Therefore, BOG will be a stretch. There is not hardly any O&D traffic to support the route and most traffic out of Columbia heads towards the southeastern / eastern United States which AA handles via MIA.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-17 09:41:08 and read 8761 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
Outside of Brazil and Argentina, AA has struggled with routes from DFW to South America.

What do you base that off of?

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-17 10:05:59 and read 8665 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 16):
What do you base that off of?

Correct me if I am wrong, but AA has started and stopped LIM, SCL, CCS before in the past. These routes do not seem to hang on long term.

Part of the problem is that AA's hub in MIA is much better suited to serve these routes. It has a much greater O&D and is geographically located in a much better position to handle most of the connecting traffic (southeastern and eastern U.S.). Yes, DFW helps for traffic destined to the western part of the U.S., but we know that the flight would mostly have to rely on connecting traffic (what little there is to the western part of the U.S.) since O&D traffic to DFW is very small.

[Edited 2012-12-17 10:06:53]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-17 10:10:05 and read 8626 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
Correct me if I am wrong, but AA has started and stopped LIM, SCL, CCS before in the past. These routes do not seem to hang on long term.

DFWCCS and DFWSCL have ran continuously since launch in the 1990's.

DFWLIM ended once, and is soon re-starting.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-12-17 10:25:36 and read 8558 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11): Destinations like UIO, GYE, MVD are not feasible.
Why is DFW-UIO not feasible, or perhaps something like DFW-UIO-GYE-DFW? Isn't UIO a large South American destination?

Maybe UIO, I doubt GYE. CO dropped GYE after serving it for many, many years.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-17 10:32:43 and read 8509 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 18):
DFWCCS and DFWSCL have ran continuously since launch in the 1990's.

Apologies on SCL. However, the one weekly flight to CCS is indicative of the amount of traffic that DFW is able to support to South American markets excluding of Brazil / Argentina, and yes, Chile.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: Tdan
Posted 2012-12-17 10:35:41 and read 8486 times.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):

Why is DFW-UIO not feasible, or perhaps something like DFW-UIO-GYE-DFW? Isn't UIO a large South American destination?

Ecuador-US is an interesting market...very different from BOG or LIM. Firstly, the market is very concentrated to MIA and NYC, making any other nonstops tough since the local markets are so small. Additionally, GYE yields are trash to the US. If UA doesn't serve it out of IAH, you know there is an issue and no way DFW would work. UIO has potential once the new airport opens, but I'd expect JFKUIO before DFWUIO. The market size, particularly to the west just isn't there as opposed to BOG and LIM.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):

In Central America and Mexico, there is definately room for more. Having a plane like the E190 would be great for expansion to cities like SAP, MGA, or TGU while allowing destinations like PTY to be daily.

I think SAP or even RTB will be your next best adds from DFW to the region, but as you correctly illustrate, a 738 is a little big for these Central American markets. The incremental revenue and profitability might not exceed the cannibalization incurred on the MIA-SAP route, for example.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 13):
Service from Miami to Porto Alegre/Curtiba has been in the works for a while now. Last I heard it would be a triangular routing; CWB can't take a non-stop to MIA. It will be a 767-300ER.

Doesn't POA still present operational issues due to the runway length? I know CWB definitely has to be a tag because of the altitude and runway length, but I'm curious to see if they can do it without weight restrictions. Very excited for the new service regardless!

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-17 10:44:00 and read 8445 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 20):
However, the one weekly flight to CCS is indicative of the amount of traffic that DFW is able to support to South American markets excluding of Brazil / Argentina, and yes, Chile.

No, thats indicative of how much capacity AA can support from DFW to CCS. Its not all one market.

LIM and BOG are going to be no problem. If nothing else, AA will have codeshares on both the LIM and BOG ends. The local markets will also grow.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-17 11:40:40 and read 8153 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
No, thats indicative of how much capacity AA can support from DFW to CCS. Its not all one market.

LIM and BOG are going to be no problem. If nothing else, AA will have codeshares on both the LIM and BOG ends. The local markets will also grow.


Why do you believe these factors will lead to the success of this route, when you tend to discount or completely dismiss these same factors (its not one market, local markets will grow, codeshares on both ends) when discussing the viability of routes from other hubs in the U.S.? I'm not clear if it something unique about DFW-LIM/BOG or just biased towards DFW.

[Edited 2012-12-17 11:43:58]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-17 12:01:12 and read 7998 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 23):
Why do you believe these factors will lead to the success of this route, when you tend to discount or completely dismiss these same factors (its not one market, local markets will grow, codeshares on both ends) when discussing the viability of routes from other hubs in the U.S.? I'm not clear if it something unique about DFW-LIM/BOG or just biased towards DFW.

Im pretty darn realistic about what can and cant be supported from DFW or anywhere else. Im not sure exactly what you are refering to, but I have said for years that the only two missing pieces of the DFW-South America puzzle were LIM and BOG. To be frank, that was no pie in the sky it was real. My point has been proven by the fact that AA is opening them.

Have I been critical of other hubs as well? Yes, but I have of DFW too and I use data to support my theories. Youre probably thinking of the PHX and IAH threads. As for those threads, there was a lot of pie in the sky theories about TG showing up at IAH or PHX having extensive service to Europe. I came down on those and produced facts to back them up. I did mention that I thought IAH could support another flight to Asia and give my thoughts on the situation. I also took a very good middle road on the CLT thread.

The better question is why you think all of Northern South America is the same? Service at CCS isnt indicative of every city in South America. Its like pointing at LAS and saying PHX can support the same thing. As for DFW-LIM, it was stopped during a time when AA and LAN didnt have the close ties. I suspect that at maturity both DFW-LIM and DFW-BOG will carry between 30-40 O&D. Right now, they are about half to 3/4 of that.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: laca773
Posted 2012-12-17 12:47:53 and read 7920 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):

Like I said earlier, outside of LIM and BOG, being able to add frequency to CCS and GIG would be the only addition things I would like to see.

In Central America and Mexico, there is definately room for more. Having a plane like the E190 would be great for expansion to cities like SAP, MGA, or TGU while allowing destinations like PTY to be daily.

Agreed! I think it would allow AA to also upgauge some of the smaller cities in Mexico that are flown on ERJs as well. The E90s allow for new routes to be developed and others to be expanded where the CRJ/ERJ just are not feasible for reasons like range, etc..

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 24):

Im pretty darn realistic about what can and cant be supported from DFW or anywhere else. Im not sure exactly what you are refering to, but I have said for years that the only two missing pieces of the DFW-South America puzzle were LIM and BOG. To be frank, that was no pie in the sky it was real. My point has been proven by the fact that AA is opening

   ! You are and I have learned a lot from you! You seem to be a sincere, respectable person, LAXdude1023.

I see DFW-BOG being flown with a A319. It's a good size a/c for this market as well as having good perfomance/economic marks departing from El Dorado which is at a very high altitude. The 738 is a bit much for this market to start.
I'm not certain if UA still does, but IAH-BOG has been flown a great deal of the time with 73Gs versus 73Hs.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: RodRB
Posted 2012-12-17 13:26:34 and read 7679 times.

Quoting Tdan (Reply 21):
Doesn't POA still present operational issues due to the runway length? I know CWB definitely has to be a tag because of the altitude and runway length, but I'm curious to see if they can do it without weight restrictions. Very excited for the new service regardless!

TAP operates POA-LIS with the A330 and I think there is some kind of payload restrictions. AR used to fly some chartes from POA to MIA with the A340 a couple years ago.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 6):

Realistically what is left now for AA in Brazil ? I would think the next destinations will be VCP, FOR, NAT ?

VCP will probably get some flights from many carriers in 2014, when the new terminal will be ready.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: HOONS90
Posted 2012-12-17 13:26:53 and read 7862 times.

Simply excellent news for Southern Brazil! I knew this was coming eventually...

I wonder if CM can start PTY-CWB as well.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 6):

Realistically what is left now for AA in Brazil ? I would think the next destinations will be VCP, FOR, NAT ?

What about Belém?

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2012-12-17 14:06:16 and read 7638 times.

Why is LATAM's alliance choice still under discussion? I thought that 1W was confirmed...

Wow, AA's MIA operation is just amazing, though it's not surprising seeing as it's probably the largest O&D market in North America for Latin Americans...

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-17 14:11:51 and read 7632 times.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 25):
I see DFW-BOG being flown with a A319. It's a good size a/c for this market as well as having good perfomance/economic marks departing from El Dorado which is at a very high altitude. The 738 is a bit much for this market to start.

The 319 and larger, longer range ERJ's could do wonders for DFW-Central America/BOG/CCS.

DFW-BOG/SAL/CCS would be great daily 319 markets (the Venezualan travel restrictions notwithstanding).

DFW-PTY/Honduras/Nicaragua would be great larger ERJ markets. That is, of course, if AA worked with them.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-17 14:19:24 and read 7596 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 20):
Apologies on SCL. However, the one weekly flight to CCS is indicative of the amount of traffic that DFW is able to support to South American markets excluding of Brazil / Argentina, and yes, Chile.

One weekly CCS flight is indicative of a Venezuelan government that refuses to allow AA to increase service to Caracas and add service to Valencia. AA has asked for more frequency on DFWCCS, MIACCS, JFKCCS and to add MIAVLN. All have been denied. Multiple times.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: SATexan
Posted 2012-12-17 14:38:13 and read 7415 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 30):
AA has asked for more frequency on DFWCCS, MIACCS, JFKCCS and to add MIAVLN. All have been denied. Multiple times.

Mark, IIRC AA even asked for SJU-VLN once. Right?

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-17 15:04:09 and read 7340 times.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 31):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 30):
AA has asked for more frequency on DFWCCS, MIACCS, JFKCCS and to add MIAVLN. All have been denied. Multiple times.

Mark, IIRC AA even asked for SJU-VLN once. Right?

Yes. After attemps at MIAVLN didn't work, AA asked for SJUVLN.

I should make clear, though, AA eventually got permission for MIAVLN in 2011. The problem: the FAA says that VLN's security doesn't meet it's standards, so no VLN-U.S. flights are allowed currently.

Valencia is the single largest Miami-Latin America O&D market without non-stop service.

[Edited 2012-12-17 15:04:51]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-12-17 15:27:17 and read 7212 times.

Wowowowowwowowowowowow!

As a Dallas native, I'm usually first to jump on these threads. I've been tethered to a deadline today so I'm late to the party, but this is AWESOME news! I wholly agree it's very indicative of TAM joining OneWorld.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Im the biggest DFW fan on this forum, but Id like to think Im somewhat realistic on what could be done.

Definition of humble brag there, bro! I may be a contender with you for the first part of that statement, but I will cede you the title for the second part.   

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
Outside of Brazil and Argentina, AA has struggled with routes from DFW to South America.
Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
Correct me if I am wrong, but AA has started and stopped LIM, SCL, CCS before in the past. These routes do not seem to hang on long term.
Quoting EricR (Reply 20):
Apologies on SCL. However, the one weekly flight to CCS is indicative of the amount of traffic that DFW is able to support to South American markets excluding of Brazil / Argentina, and yes, Chile.

Be sure to check your facts next time before making sweeping statements.

The only route that you've mentioned here that is consistent with your assumption is DFWLIM, but market conditions have changed vividly since 2005 (when the route was ended purportedly due to "shifting capacity to Love Field in opposition to the repeal of Wright.")

First of all, AA is capitalizing big time on the growth of partner carrier LAN and LAN Peru throughout Peru and South America. The flights are well-timed for connections on either end.

Secondly, DFW will play a pivotal role in connecting traffic between Asia and Peru. Japan and Peru signed a free trade agreement which went into effect in March. Trade is very robust between the two countries The new DFW-ICN flight will also surely carry some Peruvian traffic in either direction in conjunction with the go-live of DFW-LIM. I'm willing to bet there was indeed some ulterior motive in announcing both routes at the same time.

Quoting EricR (Reply 23):
Why do you believe these factors will lead to the success of this route, when you tend to discount or completely dismiss these same factors (its not one market, local markets will grow, codeshares on both ends) when discussing the viability of routes from other hubs in the U.S.? I'm not clear if it something unique about DFW-LIM/BOG or just biased towards DFW.


You also have to analyze the markets in context: foreign traffic to DFW has been booming. Peru and Colombia are also thriving. It therefore doesn't take a genius to deduce why AA would see huge market potential in opening up DFW-BOG/LIM routes, especially if there are partner carriers on the opposite ends.

I also highly dislike it when people play the victim card on the DFW threads. Those same people are generally the ones who lambasted the likes of EK and QF when they announced they were launching services to DFW.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 30):
One weekly CCS flight is indicative of a Venezuelan government that refuses to allow AA to increase service to Caracas and add service to Valencia. AA has asked for more frequency on DFWCCS, MIACCS, JFKCCS and to add MIAVLN. All have been denied. Multiple times.


Yes. Recognizing that this absurdity exists is absolutely critical.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2012-12-17 16:07:30 and read 6960 times.

MIA-POA-CWB would involve backtracking. Is CWB an airport like UIO that can only have longhaul flights land (as in IB's MAD-UIO-GYE-MAD and KL's similar routing from AMS)?

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: DolphinAir747
Posted 2012-12-17 16:08:33 and read 6951 times.

What percentage of US-South America traffic will be flown on 1W (including JJ)?

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-17 16:48:46 and read 6818 times.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 34):
MIA-POA-CWB would involve backtracking. Is CWB an airport like UIO that can only have longhaul flights land

Yes. CWB-MIA cannot be flown non-stop due to CWB's runway/altitude.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 6):
Realistically what is left now for AA in Brazil ? I would think the next destinations will be VCP, FOR, NAT ?

Fortaleza, I bet.

Also, there's Belem. While it's not the biggest market, it's about as far from Miami as Seattle, and can be flown with a 738. That's a huge advantage - cheap to operate.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: HOONS90
Posted 2012-12-17 17:20:19 and read 6605 times.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 34):

MIA-POA-CWB would involve backtracking. Is CWB an airport like UIO that can only have longhaul flights land (as in IB's MAD-UIO-GYE-MAD and KL's similar routing from AMS)?

Practically all major airports in Southern Brazil (south of GRU) have short runways, including CWB, FLN and POA. What makes CWB even less suitable for long haul operations is its altitude.

If we were to ever see long haul from CWB, I would expect it to be a Copa 737-700 to Panamá. That is unless the runway is extended.

MIA-CWB-AGT-MIA would be less of a detour but I'm not sure if the market is big enough. AA only recently reinstated flits to ASU.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: bogota
Posted 2012-12-17 17:36:53 and read 6506 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
Outside of Brazil and Argentina, AA has struggled with routes from DFW to South America. Therefore, BOG will be a stretch. There is not hardly any O&D traffic to support the route and most traffic out of Columbia heads towards the southeastern / eastern United States which AA handles via MIA.

It would be interesting to ask UA why they have a double daily flight to BOG from IAH and only a daily from EWR, that is if the premise that most pax are heading towards the E/SE.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 25):
I'm not certain if UA still does, but IAH-BOG has been flown a great deal of the time with 73Gs versus 73Hs.

They operate a double daily 73G regularly, this Christmas season it is flown by a double 752.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-17 17:53:10 and read 6435 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 20):
Apologies on SCL. However, the one weekly flight to CCS is indicative of the amount of traffic that DFW is able to support to South American markets excluding of Brazil / Argentina, and yes, Chile.

It's been a couple of years, but I used to watch US-SCL loads pretty closely, and I'd say that DFW-SCL had higher loads than MIA-SCL about 9-10 months a year on average.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: Super80DFW
Posted 2012-12-17 18:10:43 and read 6349 times.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):
It's been a couple of years, but I used to watch US-SCL loads pretty closely, and I'd say that DFW-SCL had higher loads than MIA-SCL about 9-10 months a year on average.

I agree. This was also the case when I was nonreving into SCL. DFW-SCL was packed, and MIA-SCL was delightfully open.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: RCS763AV
Posted 2012-12-18 04:33:27 and read 5255 times.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 25):
I'm not certain if UA still does, but IAH-BOG has been flown a great deal of the time with 73Gs versus 73Hs.

738s are used most of the time.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 25):
I see DFW-BOG being flown with a A319. It's a good size a/c for this market as well as having good perfomance/economic marks departing from El Dorado which is at a very high altitude. The 738 is a bit much for this market to start.

The A319 does seem like a good aircraft for the market, but the 738 could also be filled. There is a large amount of traffic heading to places like ORD, LAX, SFO and western canada the could easily use DFW as a connecting point. Also, the colombian community in texas is large.

Quoting bogota (Reply 38):
They operate a double daily 73G regularly, this Christmas season it is flown by a double 752.

They use the 738 regularly. The daily EWR is a 73G. Nice to hear they'll be using the 757 for the busy christmas season.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: jfk777
Posted 2012-12-18 04:53:12 and read 5211 times.

Quoting runway23 (Reply 6):
Realistically what is left now for AA in Brazil ? I would think the next destinations will be VCP, FOR, NAT ?

When AA flies to all the cities TAP flies to in Brazil, that is when they have saturated the market by destination.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: Bogota
Posted 2012-12-18 06:00:01 and read 4978 times.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 41):
They use the 738 regularly

Never had one of those on my flights, always 737. Booked on a 752 this weekend but have a reservation for April both ways on a 737.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: Tdan
Posted 2012-12-18 07:06:33 and read 4815 times.

Quoting bogota (Reply 38):
It would be interesting to ask UA why they have a double daily flight to BOG from IAH and only a daily from EWR, that is if the premise that most pax are heading towards the E/SE.

Large and growing local market with VERY high fares since UA is the only nonstop show in town. Colombia's oil and gas industry is also booming, so there's been significant increases in business traffic in addition to the growing VFR. Additionally, IAH is well situated geographically to capture all of the western US traffic going to BOG which is significant particularly from LAX and SFO. This is why I think we'll see AV at IAH soon, especially since they are now in *A

NYC-BOG, though much larger has significantly more competition (AV operates A332s on JFKBOG!) and as a result, yields are much lower. Also, NYC is poorly situated for flow traffic and I'd bet a significant percentage of UA's flow on EWR-BOG is actually traveling Europe-EWR-BOG at trash yields.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: bogota
Posted 2012-12-18 16:15:05 and read 4466 times.

Quoting Tdan (Reply 44):
Large and growing local market with VERY high fares since UA is the only nonstop show in town. Colombia's oil and gas industry is also booming, so there's been significant increases in business traffic in addition to the growing VFR. Additionally, IAH is well situated geographically to capture all of the western US traffic going to BOG which is significant particularly from LAX and SFO. This is why I think we'll see AV at IAH soon, especially since they are now in *ANYC-BOG, though much larger has significantly more competition (AV operates A332s on JFKBOG!) and as a result, yields are much lower. Also, NYC is poorly situated for flow traffic and I'd bet a significant percentage of UA's flow on EWR-BOG is actually traveling Europe-EWR-BOG at trash yields.

Exactly, so there is really no reason a BOG-DFW flight will not operate with the same success.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-18 16:29:05 and read 4469 times.

Quoting bogota (Reply 38):
It would be interesting to ask UA why they have a double daily flight to BOG from IAH and only a daily from EWR, that is if the premise that most pax are heading towards the E/SE.

That's a very simply answer. It was applied for when route authorities to Colombia were rare and highly desired, so airlines had a very different method of how to spread capacity around the network to Colombia.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 42):
When AA flies to all the cities TAP flies to in Brazil, that is when they have saturated the market by destination.

Getting close. AA is at nine; TP at ten.

Both fly/will fly to GRU, GIG, BSB, CNF, POA, REC and SSA.

AA to CWB and MAO.

TP to NAT, VCP and FOR

[Edited 2012-12-18 16:30:00]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-26 17:15:16 and read 3625 times.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 18):
DFWCCS and DFWSCL have ran continuously since launch in the 1990's.

DFWLIM ended once

Actually, AA did drop DFW-CCS. The route started back up on August 1, 2003 as a daily flight, but has since been reduced to its current 1 day per week.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 24):
Have I been critical of other hubs as well? Yes, but I have of DFW too and I use data to support my theories. Youre probably thinking of the PHX and IAH threads. As for those threads, there was a lot of pie in the sky theories about TG showing up at IAH or PHX having extensive service to Europe. I came down on those and produced facts to back them up. I did mention that I thought IAH could support another flight to Asia and give my thoughts on the situation. I also took a very good middle road on the CLT thread.

The issue is that you are inconsistent with the measures you use to evaluate the potential success of new routes out of DFW compared to the success of new routes from other hubs. The O&D on DFW-BOG is pathetic. If this were a new route with the same PDEWs out of another hub, you would point out how poor the O&D numbers and conclude that the route would not work. You tend to discount connecting traffic, local stimulation of demand, traffic from code share partners, etc. when discussing potential new international routes out of other hubs. However, with routes out of Dallas, you suddenly factor these items in. Factors such as connecting traffic, local stimulation of demand, traffic from code shares are consistent to all hubs. They are not exclusive to DFW.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 33):
Be sure to check your facts next time before making sweeping statements.

The only route that you've mentioned here that is consistent with your assumption is DFWLIM

Of the three routes I mentioned, only one was inaccurate (DFW-SCL). So, before you make such sweeping statements of the inaccuracy of my post, perhaps you should check your own. Regardless of what you may believe, every statement you've posted in the past has not been 100% accurate.

The fact that DFW-LIM was discontinued for years, that DFW-CCS was eliminated before and is today only running once weekly, and that DFW-BOG has not been launched until now is an indication of the level of demand from DFW to the northern half of South America.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-26 17:58:45 and read 3543 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 47):

What specifically are you talking about? I'm pretty realistic and typically factor those things in. Go read the first IAH thread. Over and over I said the anticipated new Asia route would be China whilst most everyone else said it was certainly going to be Korea or Vietnam.

Guess what happened with regards to new Asia flights to Houston??

Over and over I have stated that the two missing routes from DFW to South America were BOG and LIM. Guess what routes have been recently announced??

What you are trying to do is say that because DFW-CCS is once weekly, DFW-South America (minus Brazil and EZE) is unsuccessful. Forget the fact that AA has requested to increase it and been denied.

Now then, we're going off topic. If you want to step to me on this, send me a message and ill debate this all day long with you.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-12-26 22:03:28 and read 3324 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 47):

I will not deny that I'm not always 100% accurate in my posts, but allow me to repost some of the claims you made in your initial posts that prompted me to call you out on them:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 33):
Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
Outside of Brazil and Argentina, AA has struggled with routes from DFW to South America.
Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
Correct me if I am wrong, but AA has started and stopped LIM, SCL, CCS before in the past. These routes do not seem to hang on long term.
Quoting EricR (Reply 20):
Apologies on SCL. However, the one weekly flight to CCS is indicative of the amount of traffic that DFW is able to support to South American markets excluding of Brazil / Argentina, and yes, Chile.

Be sure to check your facts next time before making sweeping statements.

For starters, I would hardly say DFW has "struggled" with routes to South America. One route elimination (LIM) over the past decade is insufficient to substantiate this. DFW to Latin America is not synonymous with ATL to Asia.

SCL, as others have pointed out, has been around since 1996. Its a winner route for cargo, and if/when AA and LATAM get ATI on North-South America, it's possible DFWSCL may be upgauged from daily to 10x weekly. This was a short-lived experiment that was actually tested in W11/12, but did not last since it appeared to piss off LAN and they retaliated by adding new MIASCL frequencies. With joint coordination over schedules, the extra flights to DFW may return.

LIM has indeed been dormant for some time, but the DFWLIM route existed many, many years prior to its elimination, as did DFWCCS before it was stopped (briefly, before it restarted). The meager frequency to CCS has less to do with the DFWCCS market and more to do with the allocations by the Venezuelan government.

Point being, none of these facts point signs towards routes "clinging on for dear life" or being "short-lived experiments." The only other Latin American market (to my knowledge) which has encountered problems is DFWPTY, which merely saw some frequency reduction rather than all out removal.

Does AA command the same type of operation out of DFW to Northern South America that it does out of Mia, or even DL from ATL or UA from IAH? No, but I don't believe anyone claimed that it did.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: SCL767
Posted 2012-12-26 22:18:55 and read 3301 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 49):
This was a short-lived experiment that was actually tested in W11/12, but did not last since it appeared to piss off LAN and they retaliated by adding new MIASCL frequencies. With joint coordination over schedules, the extra flights to DFW may return.

During that period, LAN simply added more frequencies on the SCL-MIA route due to high demand. Similarly, next month LAN will add even more frequencies on the SCL-MIA, SCL-CUN-MIA and SCL-PUJ-MIA routes due to high demand.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: mah4546
Posted 2012-12-26 22:31:35 and read 3297 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 49):
This was a short-lived experiment that was actually tested in W11/12, but did not last since it appeared to piss off LAN and they retaliated by adding new MIASCL frequencies. With joint coordination over schedules, the extra flights to DFW may

LAN and AA have immunity and have for years. It didn't get LAN mad. If anything, it was simply reallocating excess planes from drastically reduced Winter flying to Europe.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: SCL767
Posted 2012-12-26 22:49:45 and read 3296 times.

Quoting Tdan (Reply 21):
Ecuador-US is an interesting market...very different from BOG or LIM. Firstly, the market is very concentrated to MIA and NYC, making any other nonstops tough since the local markets are so small.

That is correct. In April, AA will increase frequency on the MIA-GYE route from 10x weekly to 2x daily. Earlier this month, LAN increased frequency on the GYE-JFK route from a daily service to 11x weekly.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-27 07:26:12 and read 3092 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 49):
For starters, I would hardly say DFW has "struggled" with routes to South America. One route elimination (LIM) over the past decade is insufficient to substantiate this. DFW to Latin America is not synonymous with ATL to Asia.

Allow me to illustrate for you. DFW to:
BOG - No service
LIM - Discontinued for several years
CCS - Discontinued once, now one flight per week (if demand was that huge, AA could ask to transfer a frequency from MIA to DFW)
CLO - No service
MAR - No service
MDE - No service
UIO - No service
GYE - No service
LPB - No service
VVI - No service

This is an indication of the type of demand we are seeing from DFW. The combination of MIA as AA's main LATAM hub combined with week demand from DFW (and the western U.S.) limits the amount of capacity AA is willing to put on DFW-Northern South America. There is no need in arguing the point. The routes (or lack thereof) and performance of those routes speak for themselves.

[Edited 2012-12-27 07:34:28]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2012-12-27 07:34:15 and read 3052 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
LPB - No service
VVI - No service

Is there any US city not called Miami or Washington that can sustain Bolivia service? IAH-VVI might be interesting for gas industry connections, but that's it.

[Edited 2012-12-27 07:50:14]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-27 07:43:52 and read 3026 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
CLO - No service
MAR - No service
MDE - No service
UIO - No service
GYE - No service
LPB - No service
VVI - No service
DFW is never going to see service to those cities. IAH cant even sustain those sans UIO. Again, the only holes in the DFW-South American network have been LIM and BOG. With the lower BK costs, they will now be sustainable. The routes just got announced so obviously AA thinks so as well. Now that LIM and BOG have been announced, I do not expect to see anymore DFW-South America routes. Indeed, DFW-South America is not huge. Most of these flights do depend on connections. Ill never deny that.

Those cities you listed are not sustainable from DFW or virtualy anywhere except MIA, NYC, and maybe ATL and IAH.

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
CCS - Discontinued once, now one flight per week (if demand was that huge, AA could ask to transfer a frequency from MIA to DFW)
MIA-CCS is the 2nd largest O&D point from MIA. Why would they transfer it? AA has asked Venezualan government for more frequency from DFW and JFK and has been denied.

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
BOG - No service

Unless you havent read the title of the thread, it just got announced.

By the way are you going to send me a private message? If youre going to call me out, you **** well better be able to explain yourself and be specific.

[Edited 2012-12-27 08:10:51]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-27 09:00:47 and read 2912 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 55):
Those cities you listed are not sustainable from DFW or virtualy anywhere except MIA, NYC, and maybe ATL and IAH.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 55):
MIA-CCS is the 2nd largest O&D point from MIA. Why would they transfer it?

Hence my point. The demand is not to/from DFW or the western U.S. The demand is headed towards the eastern half of the U.S. DFW cannot support it on its own and connections are better served via MIA since the traffic is headed towards the eastern U.S. Thus the reason why DFW has historically limited service to the northern half of South America.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 55):
By the way are you going to man up and send me a private message? If youre going to call me out, you **** well better be able to explain yourself and be specific.

What is the point? I already outlined it to you above. You seem to believe that you are consistent in the measures you use across all hubs. I do not think you are. When discussing the viability of new routes from other hubs, you point out the PDEWs and draw a conclusion based on this without placing much emphasis on local market stimulation, connections, or code shares. Yet when it comes to DFW, you place a much greater emphasis on local market stimulation, connections, and code shares on routes that do not have a large number of PDEWs (such as BOG). I'll be happy to PM you some examples.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2012-12-27 09:04:43 and read 2898 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 56):
I'll be happy to PM you some examples.

Then do it. You havent explained anything specific nor have you outlined anything, youre just throwing around generalities.

Ill happily be PMing you rebuttles.

[Edited 2012-12-27 09:06:07]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-12-27 10:24:36 and read 2779 times.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 50):
During that period, LAN simply added more frequencies on the SCL-MIA route due to high demand. Similarly, next month LAN will add even more frequencies on the SCL-MIA, SCL-CUN-MIA and SCL-PUJ-MIA routes due to high demand.
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 51):
LAN and AA have immunity and have for years. It didn't get LAN mad. If anything, it was simply reallocating excess planes from drastically reduced Winter flying to Europe.

My apologies, I was told a different rumor. Why then did AA pull the 3x weekly frequencies on DFWSCL?

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
This is an indication of the type of demand we are seeing from DFW. The combination of MIA as AA's main LATAM hub combined with week demand from DFW (and the western U.S.) limits the amount of capacity AA is willing to put on DFW-Northern South America. There is no need in arguing the point. The routes (or lack thereof) and performance of those routes speak for themselves.

Of the 10 routes you listed, only three have ever been linked to DFW in the past. You can't make the argument that DFW flights have struggled to a certain region when you have such a low concentration of destinations to begin with. THREE? Those hardly provide you with any sort of insightful data points to draw any conclusions.

Again, nobody here is advocating that DFW commands strong O&D to Northern Latin America. For some reason, you seem bent on fabricating that belief exists on this thread and circling back to attack your own illusion and throw out words like, "underperformance" and "weak" etc.

I for one am a fiercely loyal DFW fan, but I embrace its challenges and weaknesses and have openly admitted that its Latin American hub falls below the ranks of MIA, ATL and IAH.

In fact, I would rather AA AVOID building up a Latin American hub at DFW and avert cannibalizing its MIA hub, driving down yields and ceding markets to the competition. This happened with US back when they tried to experiment with a FLL hub that ate into CLT. That doesn't take away from the fact that there are a few key Latin American cities that merit service to DFW, and LIM and BOG fall into that category.

Quoting EricR (Reply 56):
You seem to believe that you are consistent in the measures you use across all hubs. I do not think you are. When discussing the viability of new routes from other hubs, you point out the PDEWs and draw a conclusion based on this without placing much emphasis on local market stimulation, connections, or code shares. Yet when it comes to DFW, you place a much greater emphasis on local market stimulation, connections, and code shares on routes that do not have a large number of PDEWs (such as BOG).

Are you just bitter? I'm struggling to figure out your angle here, dude.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: SCL767
Posted 2012-12-27 10:52:22 and read 2731 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 58):
My apologies, I was told a different rumor. Why then did AA pull the 3x weekly frequencies on DFWSCL?

IIRC, AA operated the DFW-SCL route 10x weekly only for a few weeks. This season AA is operating DFW-SCL daily and MIA-SCL 2x daily. Next week, LA will increase frequency on non-stop and direct routes between SCL and MIA. For example, LAN will operate the SCL-MIA route up to 18x weekly non-stop. Also, next month LAN will launch SCL-GIG-MIA daily.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-27 14:16:47 and read 2601 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 58):
For some reason, you seem bent on fabricating that belief exists on this thread and circling back to attack your own illusion and throw out words like, "underperformance" and "weak" etc.

Come on now......Call it what you want, but the fact that AA only has one weekly flight to the northern half of South America from DFW is weak. The lack of flights is indicative of their position.

You are letting your passion for DFW cloud your judgement. The fact that for years the only flight is a weekly flight to CCS says it all. Even AA knows this, and thus the reason for the limited service. You can try to position this or call this whatever term you want, but lack of flights to the region combined with poor historical success record speaks for itself. It is what it is.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 58):
Of the 10 routes you listed, only three have ever been linked to DFW in the past. You can't make the argument that DFW flights have struggled to a certain region when you have such a low concentration of destinations to begin with. THREE? Those hardly provide you with any sort of insightful data points to draw any conclusions.

And the reason why there were only three is because no demand existed. Of the three two were canceled. One of the two was reinstated, but AA chose to run it only once per week (spare me the issue with the Venezuelan government because if strong demand existed, AA would have moved a frequency from MIA to DFW). Nothing else but a weekly flight to CCS. Call it what you want, but that indicates a weak performance to me.

Could the code share and/or lower cost structure help? Possibly, but only time will tell because based on past performance, they will need the help of a lower cost structure and code share to make it work.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 58):
Are you just bitter? I'm struggling to figure out your angle here, dude.

Not at all dude. But when using criteria to analyze the viability of a route, you need to use the same set of criteria across the board or your results will be biased.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-12-27 14:49:28 and read 2534 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 60):
Come on now......Call it what you want, but the fact that AA only has one weekly flight to the northern half of South America from DFW is weak. The lack of flights is indicative of their position.

Of course it is weak. Did I ever say it wasn't???

Quoting EricR (Reply 60):
You are letting your passion for DFW cloud your judgement. The fact that for years the only flight is a weekly flight to CCS says it all. Even AA knows this, and thus the reason for the limited service. You can try to position this or call this whatever term you want, but lack of flights to the region combined with poor historical success record speaks for itself. It is what it is.

Clearly, you have issues with this passion. Hate to break it to you, but my passion is equally grounded in reality as it is in fervor. Again, I will say this for the final time: nobody here has remotely stated that AA commands, much less deserves, the same bandwidth of Latin American operations as does some of the other hubs in the SE US.

Rather, it seems to me that you possess some sort of psychotic anti-DFW rage and are fixated on attacking its weak presence to Northern Latin America (again, which nobody here has denied) in order to validate your own fury. Go ahead and do the same thing with DFW-Asia, DFW-Europe, DFW-Africa, DFW-Middle East, etc.

Every single one of us DFW fanboys, including myself, Commavia, LAXDude1023, among others, have ALWAYS stated that the international network out of DFW, be it on AA or other carriers, is pretty right and just for the time being, perhaps plus or minus a few more destinations that theoretically COULD (emphasis on COULD) work in the next 3-5 years. By no means are ANY of us claiming that DFW ought to be entitled to the same levels of recognition as NYC, LAX, SFO, MIA, ATL, ORD, IAD, hell, even SEA.

Just because they also lend their insights on other airports/threads doesn't mean they're doing so out of pro-DFW, anti-XXX spite. That seems to be YOUR issue.

Immature much?

Quoting EricR (Reply 60):
And the reason why there were only three is because no demand existed. Of the three two were canceled. One of the two was reinstated

Of those three, one never existed, one was suspended and reinstated a short while later, and the third is being resumed. All three will be functional within a few months. Please, for the love, quit grasping at straws out of pure desperation. You're making yourself look even more vulnerable with each post you make.

Quoting EricR (Reply 60):
Not at all dude. But when using criteria to analyze the viability of a route, you need to use the same set of criteria across the board or your results will be biased.

Everything I've posted above can be applied in response here. I'm fairly certain that my credibility levels have risen over the years and in cases when I am inaccurate and corrected, I acknowledge my errors modestly and publicly and thank the poster accordingly.

I'll happily toot my own horn here and suggest that you should maybe take a page out of my book.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-27 15:09:10 and read 2513 times.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 61):
Quoting EricR (Reply 60):
Come on now......Call it what you want, but the fact that AA only has one weekly flight to the northern half of South America from DFW is weak. The lack of flights is indicative of their position.

Of course it is weak.

Then why were you so defensive when I previously stated that demand was weak? This goes back to what I said that you are letting your passion cloud your judgement. You criticize me for making certain statements, but when I back it up with proof, you get defensive and insinuate I have some type of anti-DFW bias or rage. No rage here, but I sense a lot of defensiveness from you when someone says something that you don't like (or want) to hear.

There is no doubt that AA has struggled with half of South America from DFW as is the case with one weekly flight. For you to push this point beyond what it is pointless. There is no need to get defensive. Just accept the fact.

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: AAIL86
Posted 2012-12-27 15:28:40 and read 2487 times.

Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
Correct me if I am wrong, but AA has started and stopped LIM, SCL, CCS before in the past. These routes do not seem to hang on long term.
Quoting EricR (Reply 60):
Come on now......Call it what you want, but the fact that AA only has one weekly flight to the northern half of South America from DFW is weak. The lack of flights is indicative of their position.

You are letting your passion for DFW cloud your judgement. The fact that for years the only flight is a weekly flight to CCS says it all. Even AA knows this, and thus the reason for the limited service. You can try to position this or call this whatever term you want, but lack of flights to the region combined with poor historical success record speaks for itself. It is what it is.

For comparison (week of 03FEB13 as per the GDS)
Right now UA serves the following from Houston (weekly) - BOG 14x, CCS 7x, UIO 7x, LIM 7x, GIG 7x, GRU 7x, EZE 7x. That's 9968 seats per week, including 1260 business class seats.

AA serves - CCS 1x, GIG 3x, GRU 9x, EZE 7x, SCL 7x. (LIM and BOG will be operated starting Q2/Q3 '13). Total seats equal 6692, including 1213 business/first class seats.

A couple things stand out there. For one, AA has an equal amount of premium seat capacity to South America from DFW despite that fact that IAH is UA's primary Latin America hub and has a monoploy on the oil traffic that drives premium demand at IAH (I'm actually a little surprised its this close in premium seats). Once AA launches DFW-LIM/BOG, IAH and DFW will have nearly equal seat counts to South America per week (assuming UA does not increase frequencies or add a new route).

Futhermore, DFW-CCS was reduced from daily because the government of Venezuela limited AA's available frequencies several years back, not because the route was breaking the bank. If anything, this massive amount of service from a secondary hub like DFW (in AA's Latin America scheme of things) just reinforce how dominint AA is to Latin America. Considering this, and the fact that AA is reinstating DFW-LIM and adding DFW-BOG, I can't possibly see why you are arguing this .....

[Edited 2012-12-27 15:29:53]

Topic: RE: AA: DFW-BOG, MIA-CWB/POA, JJ Codeshare
Username: EricR
Posted 2012-12-27 16:06:43 and read 2432 times.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 63):
For comparison (week of 03FEB13 as per the GDS)
Right now UA serves the following from Houston (weekly) - BOG 14x, CCS 7x, UIO 7x, LIM 7x, GIG 7x, GRU 7x, EZE 7x. That's 9968 seats per week, including 1260 business class seats.

AA serves - CCS 1x, GIG 3x, GRU 9x, EZE 7x, SCL 7x. (LIM and BOG will be operated starting Q2/Q3 '13). Total seats equal 6692, including 1213 business/first class seats.

A couple things stand out there. For one, AA has an equal amount of premium seat capacity to South America from DFW despite that fact that IAH is UA's primary Latin America hub and has a monoploy on the oil traffic that drives premium demand at IAH (I'm actually a little surprised its this close in premium seats). Once AA launches DFW-LIM/BOG, IAH and DFW will have nearly equal seat counts to South America per week (assuming UA does not increase frequencies or add a new route).

Futhermore, DFW-CCS was reduced from daily because the government of Venezuela limited AA's available frequencies several years back, not because the route was breaking the bank. If anything, this massive amount of service from a secondary hub like DFW (in AA's Latin America scheme of things) just reinforce how dominint AA is to Latin America. Considering this, and the fact that AA is reinstating DFW-LIM and adding DFW-BOG, I can't possibly see why you are arguing this .....

Because the thread is littered with inaccuracies and false conclusions. For example, let's look at your comparison. To make this an accurate comparison relative to this conversation, you need to remove EZE, GRU, GIG since these routes were never in question. Also, you may want to look at my original post as well as the discussions regarding the CCS frequencies.


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