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Topic: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2012-12-27 07:06:01 and read 16837 times.

I did not see anything about this yet, so if this is a dupe I'm sorry.

The morning news has been abuzz about an AA pilot captured on audio apologizing for a 5 hour delay that included a not so subtitle slam on management.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#...ican-airlines-pilot-apologizes.cnn

[Edited 2012-12-27 07:46:59]

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: catiii
Posted 2012-12-27 07:11:25 and read 16838 times.

that link show a story about a bus in a sinkhole.

EDIT: better link here: http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#...ican-airlines-pilot-apologizes.cnn

Not sure what the big deal is. They took a 5 hour delay at the gate with the door open because of a significant winter storm.

[Edited 2012-12-27 07:15:36]

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: ItalianFlyer
Posted 2012-12-27 07:48:25 and read 16512 times.

Thank you for the edit Catiii   Those roving video links can be tricky lol. Noted and corrected  

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: aaexecplat
Posted 2012-12-27 08:07:09 and read 16343 times.

As always (it seems), the only one with an egg on their face is an AA pilot. He knows as well as any pilot what the procedure is in these kinds of circumstances...airplanes wait at the gate with the door open so as not to start the clock on the fines, and the carrier allows folks to get off the plane but asks them to stay close so they can eave when they get the green light.

But of course the pilot has to make a political statement completely detached from the reality of the snowstorm around him. And of course none of the other US airlines had delays yesterday or the day before....oh wait...

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: miaami
Posted 2012-12-27 08:14:55 and read 16265 times.

Interesting that I never heard these kind of apologies in September when the pilots delayed or caused flight cancellations over their contract woes.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: aaexecplat
Posted 2012-12-27 08:37:06 and read 16095 times.

Quoting miaami (Reply 4):
Interesting that I never heard these kind of apologies in September when the pilots delayed or caused flight cancellations over their contract woes.

Exactly. Quite the opposite. On the many delayed flights I was on during that time, pilots would often not get on the PA at all to explain the nature of the delay...I don't say this lightly, but I hope they will one day get taught a tough and expensive lesson.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: miaami
Posted 2012-12-27 08:50:25 and read 15957 times.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 5):
Exactly. Quite the opposite. On the many delayed flights I was on during that time, pilots would often not get on the PA at all to explain the nature of the delay...I don't say this lightly, but I hope they will one day get taught a tough and expensive lesson.

You may have already gotten your wish. For all the chest thumping that the pilots did back in Aug when they voted down the companies LBFO (last best final offer). They overwhelmingly voted for it earlier this month. They basically voted for the same thing they voted down in Aug with items moved around a bit but all for the same total value as the original LBFO. Management got what they wanted from the pilot group.

[Edited 2012-12-27 08:52:53]

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: clrd4t8koff
Posted 2012-12-27 09:19:22 and read 15728 times.

Quoting miaami (Reply 4):
Interesting that I never heard these kind of apologies in September when the pilots delayed or caused flight cancellations over their contract woes.
Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 5):
Exactly. Quite the opposite. On the many delayed flights I was on during that time, pilots would often not get on the PA at all to explain the nature of the delay...I don't say this lightly, but I hope they will one day get taught a tough and expensive lesson.

I get what you both are saying, but I haven't read 1 account or complaint from those instances that resulted in a 5-hour delay, during a major holiday rush. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-27 09:22:41 and read 15688 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):
Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

Not all the south was rain......we had snow in Arkansas and I believe north Texas had snow, sleat and rain, also.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: clrd4t8koff
Posted 2012-12-27 09:34:02 and read 15569 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
Not all the south was rain......we had snow in Arkansas and I believe north Texas had snow, sleat and rain, also.


Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs? Seems like the pilot was on to something when he said the people above him making the decisions don't know what they're doing.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: miaami
Posted 2012-12-27 09:51:23 and read 15426 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs? Seems like the pilot was on to something when he said the people above him making the decisions don't know what they're doing.

Maybe because like some his colleagues at AA and other carriers they don't feel the need to air their bitterness over the PA and are a little more professional.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: AviRaider
Posted 2012-12-27 10:17:10 and read 14957 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):

Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

Yea we got snow here in Dallas for most of Christmas Day. I think we got at the most an inch or two of snow and an inch of rain.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2012-12-27 10:17:35 and read 14956 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs?

No snow and the worst weather didnt hit until late at night

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-27 10:26:25 and read 14718 times.

I dont think it was political

As a pilot it gets frustrating.

He should have just deplaned and let them sit in the airport

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: clrd4t8koff
Posted 2012-12-27 10:26:37 and read 14722 times.

Quoting miaami (Reply 10):
Maybe because like some his colleagues at AA and other carriers they don't feel the need to air their bitterness over the PA and are a little more professional.

I fail to see how keeping the passengers informed is unprofessional? Apparently neither did AA because they've already commented that no actions would be taken against him - http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/27/travel...irline-delays/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Also, I didn't think the pilot was bitter as much as he was frustrated. He defused the passengers frustration by keeping them up-to-date which is something I wish ALL Pilots, Gate Agents, Flight Attendants would do.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-27 10:52:18 and read 14167 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs? Seems like the pilot was on to something when he said the people above him making the decisions don't know what they're doing.

I don't believe that the cold air mass that caused the massive snow storms, blizzard conditions, tornadoes, etc. extended that far east.....most was in north Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas....even some in northern Louisiana. The storm system extended east, but not the cold air. Also, it didn't start snowing here until afternoon, so it would have been much later for them to get storms in the east and southeast.......you'd think that a pilot, whose job it is to keep tabs on the weather, especially when they get their flight plan and clearance, would be aware of any weather around him or enroute.

Reminds me of what a colleague at ORD once told me about a customer driving 5 hours in a normal 1 hour trip, thru blizzard conditions and then, couldn't figure out why the airport was closed when he got there.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: JHCRJ700
Posted 2012-12-27 10:59:53 and read 14050 times.

Quoting miaami (Reply 10):
Maybe because like some his colleagues at AA and other carriers they don't feel the need to air their bitterness over the PA and are a little more professional.

PIlots are people just like the rest of us and unfortunately don't always use the wisest judgement in situations such as this one. I feel for the guy, it wasn't like he was off in the terminal somewhere while his passengers just waited on the plane, he was right there with them. Who knows how long he had been on duty already, how much duty time he still had left, family issues he may have been having, etc, etc. Did he make the best decision to blame management over the pa? No, but everybody makes mistakes.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: rduddji
Posted 2012-12-27 11:03:16 and read 13983 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs?

The obvious answer is that there was no snow/sleet/ice at those hubs. Some wind and rain, but nothing like what DFW experienced.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: DashTrash
Posted 2012-12-27 11:19:13 and read 13665 times.

Just listened to it. I didn't hear anything that I would say was unacceptable, or truthful for that matter. Any pilot who has been on the job for more than a year has watched the operation fall apart due to lack of planning. There will always be times when things come apart at the seams that couldn't be prevented, but more often than not there are plenty of warning signs (read: WEATHER REPORT) that all will not be well.

On the same token, I feel for those in ops tasked with making those decisions on how to preserve ops based on forecasts. It can be a lose - lose situation for them as well when flights get canceled in advance of a storm and nothing happens.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: aaexecplat
Posted 2012-12-27 11:29:08 and read 13479 times.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):
Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

DFW got plenty of snow..

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
Not all the south was rain......we had snow in Arkansas and I believe north Texas had snow, sleat and rain, also.

Correct.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
Fair enough, but why are we only hearing about AA having troubles (yet again??). Nothing from DL @ ATL, US @ CLT, etc. or other southern hubs? Seems like the pilot was on to something when he said the people above him making the decisions don't know what they're doing.

See below. You continue to assert non-facts in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
I don't believe that the cold air mass that caused the massive snow storms, blizzard conditions, tornadoes, etc. extended that far east.....most was in north Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas....even some in northern Louisiana. The storm system extended east, but not the cold air. Also, it didn't start snowing here until afternoon, so it would have been much later for them to get storms in the east and southeast.......you'd think that a pilot, whose job it is to keep tabs on the weather, especially when they get their flight plan and clearance, would be aware of any weather around him or enroute.

Exactly.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: sccutler
Posted 2012-12-27 12:52:23 and read 12203 times.

Yawn.

He was frustrated, had no clever explanations, just shared with the passengers. Not the slickest maneuver, but they were, on that day, in the same boat (or plane).

Nothing to punish, just bad weather.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-12-27 13:14:29 and read 11812 times.

This pilot lacked the professionalism his occupation says it has. He, apparently is one of those selfish and unprofessionals that spoil it for the truly professional pilots.

He knows very well what his position is in the deicing que, and approximately how long a delay there will be. He also knows what deicing equipment and how many qualified deice crews has at that airport. He should have a working idea of the enviornmental concerns of that airport, and the restrictions of the deicing operations. He was but one airplane at one airline at that airport, and there are other airplanes and airlines involved, not just his little world. The airport flow rate plays a very big part here. At DFW, during a snow emergency, we could be down to just 2 operational runways (17R/35L and 18L/36R) until airport snow removal crews can get two more runways plowed, deiced, and open after an inspection by Airfield Operations. Deicing the airplane itself can take anywhere from about 15 minutes to 45 minutes, depending on the size of the airplane.

Pilots and FAs don't get paid while sitting at the gate, their pay starts once the door is closed and the airplane pushed back, or engines started and powered back. I believe this is this guy's problem. Yes, sitting there time does go against his crew duty day hours, and he must assure he has enough hours remaining to complete the flight once he does take-off.

Someone above said the pax were given the oppertunity to get off, but were also told they may leave any minute. This info could only come from this very same pilot making the announcement over the PA. He may ask a FA to make the announcement, but he is the one to get the info from the AA tower.

This pilot made a very stupid announcement, and should be disiplined for it.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: ckfred
Posted 2012-12-27 14:22:07 and read 10762 times.

Quoting miaami (Reply 4):
Interesting that I never heard these kind of apologies in September when the pilots delayed or caused flight cancellations over their contract woes.

I was on a couple of AA flights. One arrived early. The other was 90 minutes late due to severe thunderstorms in Chicago. In both cases, there wasn't a pilot to be seen outside the cockpit, thanking passengers for flying AA. I can't recall the last time a pilot didn't thank me for flying.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 7):
Also, on the CNN clip of the pilots apology, it says the flight was in DFW. I know the Midwest and North Atlantic/Southern New England states got hit hard with snow and ice, but DFW? My understanding was that the south was rain? AA's corporate reply stated they couldn't get de-icing equipment over.

Could de-icing have been limited to flights that were flying into known icing conditions? If a flight was leaving DFW for MEX, LAX, or MIA, it may not have need de-icing. But if it was flying north or east, flying conditions may have dictated de-icing.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: clrd4t8koff
Posted 2012-12-27 14:29:48 and read 10660 times.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 19):
See below. You continue to assert non-facts in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Um, I didn't "continue" to do anything. I posted one comment which was quickly corrected by about 10 others before you. Yet you felt the need to assert your knowledge that you most likely gathered FROM those posters, only to try and turn it around and look like the wise guy. Pretty lame, try being a little more original.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: doug_Or
Posted 2012-12-27 14:44:00 and read 10434 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 22):

Could de-icing have been limited to flights that were flying into known icing conditions?

No, that's not how it works. Aircraft are de-iced (and sometimes anti-iced) to allow takeoff. After that point they use their anti-ice sysems to remain clean.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: Jpax
Posted 2012-12-27 14:50:21 and read 10536 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):

This pilot made a very stupid announcement, and should be disiplined for it.

Unless you've heard more of an announcement than there was in the CNN video, I have to call your post one of the most ill informed and offensive posts I've ever read here. We are so often left in the dark without any information in regards to all the things you so ignorantly claim he would know "very well." Where do you think all of this information comes from? The flight crew isn't making it up as they go along, they get it from ops and dispatch.

The announcement was concise and as little personally involved as one could expect it to be with a five hour gate hold.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: skycub
Posted 2012-12-27 15:00:07 and read 10396 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 22):

I was on a couple of AA flights. One arrived early. The other was 90 minutes late due to severe thunderstorms in Chicago. In both cases, there wasn't a pilot to be seen outside the cockpit, thanking passengers for flying AA. I can't recall the last time a pilot didn't thank me for flying.

On American? I am not the most frequent flyer on AA, but I fly them roughly one roundtrip a month and have for the past few years and I cannot recall an AA pilot ever standing at the front of the cabin thanking passengers during deplaning.

Don't get me wrong... I am a bit of an AA fanboy myself. I like AA a lot as a passenger. So I am not in any way putting the airline down. However, that is not something I can ever recall seeing.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: strfyr51
Posted 2012-12-27 15:07:38 and read 10388 times.

what the overall situation was was really none of that pilot's concern. the deicing equipment was either being otherwise used or was out of commission. in any case somebody was working to the priority they were directed to. that HIS airplane wasn't the priority might have caused him heartburn

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: freeze3192
Posted 2012-12-27 15:13:54 and read 10298 times.

Quoting Jpax (Reply 25):


Unless you've heard more of an announcement than there was in the CNN video, I have to call your post one of the most ill informed and offensive posts I've ever read here. We are so often left in the dark without any information in regards to all the things you so ignorantly claim he would know "very well." Where do you think all of this information comes from? The flight crew isn't making it up as they go along, they get it from ops and dispatch.

The announcement was concise and as little personally involved as one could expect it to be with a five hour gate hold.

+1

Thank you.

Unfortunately, the A.net crowd is very anti-pilots (except for the pilot members) and very anti-union (although it has gotten a little better over the past few years). They all think that we're big union cronies that get pleasure in leaving our pax in the dark, just making up delays so we'll time out, etc.

These people are the same ones that come up and ask "why are we delayed for weather, my brother in law's aunt has a son who is at their grandma's house and says the weather is fine. Plus my iphone says the weather is good" Then they show you the iphone with their little radar map on it.

Or the guy that wonders why we RTB'd when I had a pack blow up on climb out when it was 105*F on the ground. "Can't we just go without a/c?"

Ignorance.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: Jpax
Posted 2012-12-27 15:14:16 and read 10243 times.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 27):
what the overall situation was was really none of that pilot's concern. the deicing equipment was either being otherwise used or was out of commission. in any case somebody was working to the priority they were directed to. that HIS airplane wasn't the priority might have caused him heartburn

Of course it is his concern. How would it not be?

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: bahadir
Posted 2012-12-27 15:49:35 and read 9831 times.

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 3):

As always (it seems), the only one with an egg on their face is an AA pilot. He knows as well as any pilot what the procedure is in these kinds of circumstances...airplanes wait at the gate with the door open so as not to start the clock on the fines, and the carrier allows folks to get off the plane but asks them to stay close so they can eave when they get the green light.

But of course the pilot has to make a political statement completely detached from the reality of the snowstorm around him. And of course none of the other US airlines had delays yesterday or the day before....oh wait...
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
This pilot lacked the professionalism his occupation says it has. He, apparently is one of those selfish and unprofessionals that spoil it for the truly professional pilots.

He knows very well what his position is in the deicing que, and approximately how long a delay there will be. He also knows what deicing equipment and how many qualified deice crews has at that airport. He should have a working idea of the enviornmental concerns of that airport, and the restrictions of the deicing operations. He was but one airplane at one airline at that airport, and there are other airplanes and airlines involved, not just his little world. The airport flow rate plays a very big part here. At DFW, during a snow emergency, we could be down to just 2 operational runways (17R/35L and 18L/36R) until airport snow removal crews can get two more runways plowed, deiced, and open after an inspection by Airfield Operations. Deicing the airplane itself can take anywhere from about 15 minutes to 45 minutes, depending on the size of the airplane.

Pilots and FAs don't get paid while sitting at the gate, their pay starts once the door is closed and the airplane pushed back, or engines started and powered back. I believe this is this guy's problem. Yes, sitting there time does go against his crew duty day hours, and he must assure he has enough hours remaining to complete the flight once he does take-off.

Someone above said the pax were given the oppertunity to get off, but were also told they may leave any minute. This info could only come from this very same pilot making the announcement over the PA. He may ask a FA to make the announcement, but he is the one to get the info from the AA tower.

This pilot made a very stupid announcement, and should be disiplined for it.

Says the "Airfield Operations Officer at DFW Airport (RETIRED)' are you going to take the blame for the incompetant operations in DFW ? No .. Are you going to take the blame that the deicing line was up to 3 hours when I landed in DFW on that day? No.. But blame the pilot who has been sincere in his apologies.. I love the "hate the pilots" crowd; because we know so much and our only goal in life is screw with passengers' travel plans.

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 28):
Thank you.

Unfortunately, the A.net crowd is very anti-pilots (except for the pilot members) and very anti-union (although it has gotten a little better over the past few years). They all think that we're big union cronies that get pleasure in leaving our pax in the dark, just making up delays so we'll time out, etc.

These people are the same ones that come up and ask "why are we delayed for weather, my brother in law's aunt has a son who is at their grandma's house and says the weather is fine. Plus my iphone says the weather is good" Then they show you the iphone with their little radar map on it.

Or the guy that wonders why we RTB'd when I had a pack blow up on climb out when it was 105*F on the ground. "Can't we just go without a/c?"

Ignorance.

Amen!

I completely agree with your post and what the AA pilot talked about.. You literally get what you pay for.. The cost base decision making made by some people sitting at their office is the reason why they fail. The outsourced deicing operations are incompetant because they hire the cheapest labor, not the person that is best fit for the job. You need to look at the mechanics, crew schedulers, office personnel turnover rates in the airline industry..

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: Jpax
Posted 2012-12-27 16:00:01 and read 9691 times.

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 28):

+1

Thank you.

Unfortunately, the A.net crowd is very anti-pilots (except for the pilot members) and very anti-union (although it has gotten a little better over the past few years). They all think that we're big union cronies that get pleasure in leaving our pax in the dark, just making up delays so we'll time out, etc.

These people are the same ones that come up and ask "why are we delayed for weather, my brother in law's aunt has a son who is at their grandma's house and says the weather is fine. Plus my iphone says the weather is good" Then they show you the iphone with their little radar map on it.

Or the guy that wonders why we RTB'd when I had a pack blow up on climb out when it was 105*F on the ground. "Can't we just go without a/c?"

Ignorance.

Glad to see there is still some sanity in this website. It's very aggravating reading all these posts from folks who have only CNN-based aviation knowledge, or learned from the horrid misinformation posted here on a daily basis. But, as you said, the iPhone says its sunshine and happiness, and all the information we need is being fed to us real time. If only.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: bobloblaw
Posted 2012-12-27 16:01:34 and read 9655 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 22):
Could de-icing have been limited to flights that were flying into known icing conditions? If a flight was leaving DFW for MEX, LAX, or MIA, it may not have need de-icing. But if it was flying north or east, flying conditions may have dictated de-icing.

There was icing at DFW. Also there would be icing aloft.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-27 16:29:29 and read 9340 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
Pilots and FAs don't get paid while sitting at the gate, their pay starts once the door is closed and the airplane pushed back, or engines started and powered back. I believe this is this guy's problem. Yes, sitting there time does go against his crew duty day hours, and he must assure he has enough hours remaining to complete the flight once he does take-off.

How about sitting at the gate for 5 hours?

You like that?

You like sitting anywhere with an indefinite hold?

With no answers?

With no help?

You like that?

Maybe that was this "guys" problem.

And for future reference, he isn't "guy." He is in command of a crew and 100+ passengers in a very difficult situation.

He is trying to do his job and not getting much help.

Been there, and done that.

Pay is the least of it at that point

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: N62NA
Posted 2012-12-27 16:52:04 and read 9037 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):

This pilot made a very stupid announcement, and should be disiplined for it.

Honestly, I didn't find anything wrong with the pilot's announcement. As a passenger, I would have very much appreciated his announcement had I been on the plane, and appreciated his frankness in describing the situation along with his expression of regret for the situation. He didn't lie or make anything up, he told the truth. I give him an A+ and in the 1 in a million chance he actually reads this, I would like to hope one day I find myself on one of his flights.

Quoting bahadir (Reply 30):
The outsourced deicing operations are incompetant because they hire the cheapest labor

I hate blanket statements.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-12-27 17:06:52 and read 8888 times.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 22):
If a flight was leaving DFW for MEX, LAX, or MIA, it may not have need de-icing. But if it was flying north or east, flying conditions may have dictated de-icing.

We had snow and ice in the DFW Metroplex, as well

Quoting Jpax (Reply 25):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
This pilot made a very stupid announcement, and should be disiplined for it.

Unless you've heard more of an announcement than there was in the CNN video, I have to call your post one of the most ill informed and offensive posts I've ever read here. We are so often left in the dark without any information in regards to all the things you so ignorantly claim he would know "very well." Where do you think all of this information comes from? The flight crew isn't making it up as they go along, they get it from ops and dispatch.
Quoting bahadir (Reply 30):
Says the "Airfield Operations Officer at DFW Airport (RETIRED)' are you going to take the blame for the incompetant operations in DFW ? No .. Are you going to take the blame that the deicing line was up to 3 hours when I landed in DFW on that day? No.. But blame the pilot who has been sincere in his apologies.. I love the "hate the pilots" crowd; because we know so much and our only goal in life is screw with passengers' travel plans.

First, neither of you know what you are talking about. I don't 'hate' pilots, I've been one for decades. I also have 40 + years in aviation, military and civilian. I don't hide the fact I am not a union supporter, their days were over back in the 1960s. The only purpose they serve now is the pay and bennies for the union management.

Next, this is not a union issue, it is a deicing delay, nothing more, nothing less.

Finally, I wrote the annual deicing plan for DFW for years. The airport controls the aircraft deicing areas, the airlines make the plan to que up each individual aircraft. The AA Tower at DFW (dispatch) keeps each flight number informed of their posistion within the airline's planned que. Airfield Operations is charged with keeping as much of the airport open and operational as possible. They deice the taxiway bridges, assure the taxiways are plowed and sanded, and take the runway friction readings. The also monitor the deicing areas for envirormential and airport rules and security requirements. The airlines assure they have enough of each type of deicing fluid, and if it needs to be mixed, it is mixed properly.

I have listened to the AA Ramp frequency during deicing operations, and there is usually a professional attitude on it. Occasionally you can hear a pilot bitich about his position in the que, it never does him any good. But most pilots understand the 'big picture' and where their one airplane is in it.

I do know that AA does not just consider the weather conditions at DFW when they decide who is where in the que, or why they 'shuffle' it as required. They also consider the weather conditions at the arrival airport, including its flow capability and if it is open at all. For example, a flight from DFW to MCI my have bad weather at both airports. AA at DFW will place the flight in the que, and then weather conditions at MCI get worse and the airport is forced to close. That flight gets removed from the que and is replaced by one that can fly onto it destination. Sometimes a flight is in the que for so long the crew duty day will run out before that flight can arrive at the gate at the destination airport. That flight gets removed from the que and replaced by a later flight with an open destination. The flight is then canceled and taxis back to a gate, if one is available. There are other reasons, like a waiting aircraft going tech and must get repairs at the gate, but these are the basics.

I have been in many meetings with AA, DL, and the other carriers at DFW when the written plans are discussed, an then in meetings during weather emergencies in the EOC. In my office, there are also hourly conference calls with the AA Tower, AA Weather (yes they have their own weather forecasters), other AA station managers at other airports, and those Airport Operations people, and many others, including the FAA ATC and NavAids. Discussions have gone from grim to opptomistic and everything in between. ATC sets the airport "flow rate" based on the number of runways and taxiways I could give them. The 'flow rate' is the total number of take-offs and/or landings the airport can handle safely in one hour. The DFW flow rate can be anywhere between 60 and 120 per hour, again depending how much concrete is available. Braking action reports from aircraft also figuer into all of this. Poor braking action requires me to close a runway for sanding, deicing, plowing, or whatever is required.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2012-12-27 17:17:12 and read 8792 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 33):
How about sitting at the gate for 5 hours?

You like that?

You like sitting anywhere with an indefinite hold?

With no answers?

With no help?

You like that?

Maybe that was this "guys" problem.

And for future reference, he isn't "guy." He is in command of a crew and 100+ passengers in a very difficult situation.

He is trying to do his job and not getting much help.

Been there, and done that.

Pay is the least of it at that point

Oh, don't give me that crap. That pilot had at least two VHF radios, one tuned to the AA Ramp Tower. He would have been talking to then about what was going on and why. His rant about management was uncalled for, because he had all the information he needed. I also don't buy that "he is responsible for everyone aboard" stuff. He only has to make sure he gets there safely and everyone behind him follows. In this case, no one was in any danger, they were still on the ground. This pilot had as much help as any other AA pilot that day, and they didn't seem to bitch about management, which had senior pilots making decisions, too.

This pilot and his passenges were inconvenienced, they were not in danger. That is the bottom line.

[Edited 2012-12-27 17:19:01]

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: mcoatc
Posted 2012-12-27 17:35:57 and read 8534 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
This pilot lacked the professionalism his occupation says it has. He, apparently is one of those selfish and unprofessionals that spoil it for the truly professional pilots.

Surely, this is a joke right?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 36):
His rant about management was uncalled for, because he had all the information he needed.

Except he never mentioned management, unless I listened to a different clip. He said "people over our heads" which could be ATC for all we know. Maybe his issue was with ops, or dispatch. How on earth does that translate into the AMR management team? Just a hint of bias on your part toward the AA pilots because of entirely unrelated issues methinks.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 34):
Honestly, I didn't find anything wrong with the pilot's announcement. As a passenger, I would have very much appreciated his announcement had I been on the plane, and appreciated his frankness in describing the situation along with his expression of regret for the situation. He didn't lie or make anything up, he told the truth. I give him an A+ and in the 1 in a million chance he actually reads this, I would like to hope one day I find myself on one of his flights.

Exactly. I took it as a guy who actually gave a damn about the people sitting behind him - what a bizarre concept.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: aluminumtubing
Posted 2012-12-27 17:47:47 and read 8420 times.

I have been in the left seat on many an American Airlines delay. He handled it very unprofessionally, and I find it embarrassing. I certainly understand the frustration, but that is not the way most Captains would have handled it. Got keep your cool not matter how hot it gets.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: Mir
Posted 2012-12-27 18:00:17 and read 8223 times.

Quoting mcoatc (Reply 38):
Except he never mentioned management, unless I listened to a different clip. He said "people over our heads" which could be ATC for all we know. Maybe his issue was with ops, or dispatch.

Most likely, the person who decided to keep the passengers on the plane for five hours (which is either ops or dispatch). That really shouldn't happen.

-Mir

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: JHCRJ700
Posted 2012-12-27 18:14:11 and read 8071 times.

Quoting Jpax (Reply 31):

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 28):

+1

Thank you.

Unfortunately, the A.net crowd is very anti-pilots (except for the pilot members) and very anti-union (although it has gotten a little better over the past few years). They all think that we're big union cronies that get pleasure in leaving our pax in the dark, just making up delays so we'll time out, etc.

These people are the same ones that come up and ask "why are we delayed for weather, my brother in law's aunt has a son who is at their grandma's house and says the weather is fine. Plus my iphone says the weather is good" Then they show you the iphone with their little radar map on it.

Or the guy that wonders why we RTB'd when I had a pack blow up on climb out when it was 105*F on the ground. "Can't we just go without a/c?"

Ignorance.

Glad to see there is still some sanity in this website. It's very aggravating reading all these posts from folks who have only CNN-based aviation knowledge, or learned from the horrid misinformation posted here on a daily basis. But, as you said, the iPhone says its sunshine and happiness, and all the information we need is being fed to us real time. If only.

You both said it way better than I could have said it! I couldn't agree more with both of you. IMO this pilot didn't do anything wrong and if Anything I say good for him. Pilots are people too.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: kann123air
Posted 2012-12-27 18:14:15 and read 8065 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
Not all the south was rain......we had snow in Arkansas and I believe north Texas had snow, sleat and rain, also.

Quite a bit of snow! Most I've seen in Fort Smith for as long as I've lived here.

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: irshava
Posted 2012-12-27 18:29:55 and read 7892 times.

Although it is understandable that he was upset - I think he should've kept his comments to himself - who knows what the consequences might be now..

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: iFlyLOTs
Posted 2012-12-27 18:47:25 and read 7685 times.

Quoting aluminumtubing (Reply 39):
I have been in the left seat on many an American Airlines delay. He handled it very unprofessionally, and I find it embarrassing. I certainly understand the frustration, but that is not the way most Captains would have handled it. Got keep your cool not matter how hot it gets.

I'm with this guy except for the whole pilot of an AA plane (maybe one day that'll change  )

Topic: RE: AA Pilot Publicly Goes Off On Mgmt
Username: jetblueguy22
Posted 2012-12-27 19:06:06 and read 7457 times.

This thread has turned into personal attacks on other members. It will be locked to further posts.
Blue


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