Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5644067/

Topic: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2012-12-25 22:25:08 and read 8979 times.

UA had plans to fly to KUL back in the 80s but this never happened. Will this become a reality? Perhaps as a connecting flight via HKG or NRT?

What about MNL? Will they return some day?

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: Akiestar
Posted 2012-12-25 23:01:42 and read 8922 times.

A lot has changed from 2009, apparently, when you previously asked this question: Does UA Fly To MNL Still? If Not Why? (by United Airline Jun 25 2009 in Civil Aviation).

Well, technically, UA now flies to MNL, but from Guam. And Koror (Palau).

I'm not inclined to believe UA will launch new services to the Philippines anytime: any non-stop flights will probably be shot down by PR, which will oppose any new competition on its bread-and-butter routes to North America (to the point that it opposed the further liberalization of the Philippines-US bilateral back in the day). And I don't know if they're willing to route through another Asian city, as they do for SIN, SGN and the like.

In fairness, now that NH serves MNL (in contrast to what Viscount724 said back in the previous thread), UA can more reasonably serve the Philippines through them, rather than fly here on their own metal.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-25 23:05:55 and read 8906 times.

United commenced a NRT-MNL flight last year as part of its JV with ANA. Flight is specificaly designed to connect to UA services at NRT.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: Akiestar
Posted 2012-12-25 23:10:10 and read 8879 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
United commenced a NRT-MNL flight last year as part of its JV with ANA. Flight is specificaly designed to connect to UA services at NRT.

But the flight is operated with NH metal, not UA. As far as I'm concerned, UA is not commencing anything at all: they may have codeshared with NH as part of their JV, but it's still an NH flight.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-25 23:41:02 and read 8837 times.

Its a JV flight, and as result it is metal neutral. So flight is as much a UA one as NH from the business end.

Under the JV, UA-NH share all cost and revenues as if they were a single carrier.

If not for the JV, this and other flights would not have been possible.


Anyhow we discussed this thread topic recently:
Why Did UA Pull MNL? (by olddominion727 Oct 1 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: COSPN
Posted 2012-12-26 02:35:55 and read 8581 times.

UA has Daily SFO-HNL-GUM-MNL Service

and 2 Extra "daytime" flights from Guam

and 2 GUM-ROR-MNL flights

that is about 1,400 seats per week from the mainland to MNL thats more than fine for now ..

777 HNL to Guam with 2,436 seats for week on an Island of 160,000 so lots of seats for Manila

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: strfyr51
Posted 2012-12-26 05:42:20 and read 7979 times.

UA and 191 and183 both serve MNL out of GUM.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2012-12-26 09:29:00 and read 6799 times.

What aircraft does UA use to fly to MNL?

And will UA give KUL a try? KUL is so boring in a way and should attract more airlines especially from the US

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2012-12-26 10:09:24 and read 6558 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

United commenced a NRT-MNL flight last year as part of its JV with ANA. Flight is specificaly designed to connect to UA services at NRT.

Indeed. I flew SEA-NRT-MNL on NH back in October and return and the flight from NRT to MNL is basically half full with UA PAX connecting from ORD, SEA, LAX, SFO, IAD, IAH, EWR etc. On the return, I was originally supposed to fly MNL-GUM-HNL and there were a fair amount of MNL-HNL traffic as well as mainland traffic using that route as well.

My MNL-NRT flight was delayed on the return and annoyingly most people missed their connecting flights to the States. Transfer in NRT was a disaster. I made my SEA flight by a hair.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
What aircraft does UA use to fly to MNL?

737-800.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: alfa164
Posted 2012-12-26 11:02:21 and read 6283 times.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):

I suspect you will see a US airline in KUL soon, but it won't be UA. With Garuda in line for ST membership, DL will probably add flights from NRT. They have a habit of adding flights to the hubs of new ST members.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: OA412
Posted 2012-12-26 11:18:34 and read 6189 times.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 9):
I suspect you will see a US airline in KUL soon, but it won't be UA. With Garuda in line for ST membership, DL will probably add flights from NRT. They have a habit of adding flights to the hubs of new ST members.

Garuda is an Indonesian airline with it's hub at CGK, so I don't think you're going to see them flying to KUL anytime soon. As I recall from previous discussions (which haven't changed much since OP last asked his question), U.S./KUL is pretty low yield, so I don't think you're going to see either UA or DL add an intra-Asia tag to KUL. I suspect the most we're going to get is the current UA flight from GUM.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: jfk777
Posted 2012-12-26 11:21:56 and read 6170 times.

If Malaysian can't make LAX work why would UA want Kuala Lumpar ? Malaysia and Thailand are just not viable markets for their airlines to the USA.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-26 11:32:31 and read 6106 times.

NWA tried KUL once. Did not work well and dropped after only a few years. Even NW freighter service to KUL did not work out well in the long run.

Additionally US-Malaysia market is only about 1/3 size of US-Singapore, and lacks the premium demand SIN can generate.

If UA were to look at KUL, it would be via the ANA JV, but I have no idea how NH views Malaysia as a market.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-12-26 11:36:44 and read 6082 times.

I think instead of KUL UA should be looking at restoring DPS, perhaps to LAX via GUM. The tourist traffic between the West Coast of the US and DPS has to be greater than to KUL.

DPS-GUM-LAX" target="_blank">http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=DPS-GUM-LAX

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-26 15:46:12 and read 5157 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):

NWA tried KUL once. Did not work well and dropped after only a few years. Even NW freighter service to KUL did not work out well in the long run.

It was a dismal failure. Loads were extremely low, and cargo revenue was almost non-existent.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: MAS777
Posted 2012-12-26 16:07:46 and read 5059 times.

With Malaysia Airlines entering Oneworld in just over a months time, there is likely to be some cooperation between Malaysia Airlines and American Airlines on MHs current LAX-NRT-KUL service.

Malaysian have recently implemented codeshares with Japan Airlines too to boost its 'coverage' of major US ports like Chicago, Boston off the top of my head. I believe Malaysian is also looking to code-share with BA and AA across the Altantic via LHR, CDG, FRA and AMS for ports like JFK, EWR, IAD, MIA.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2012-12-26 16:14:47 and read 5011 times.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
I think instead of KUL UA should be looking at restoring DPS, perhaps to LAX via GUM. The tourist traffic between the West Coast of the US and DPS has to be greater than to KUL.

Longhaul routes that depend exclusively on tourist traffic are rarely profitable.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: lawair
Posted 2012-12-26 16:37:31 and read 4886 times.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
Malaysia and Thailand are just not viable markets for their airlines to the USA.

While a little off topic, you're right in pointing out that US-BKK only works from the US side of things. US carriers can pool their entire US network into NRT and then carry these passengers profitably enough onward to BKK. TG can't do that. TG only has access to one city in the US and they've been relatively terrible about codesharing with US carriers. TG's online reservation engine also makes it difficult to book anything beyond LAX. Its transpacific flying can't rely on LAX passengers alone considering the competition existent in LAX and the insufficiency of Thais living and visiting LA. (Even though LA has the highest concentration of Thais living in any one US city, it's still not that many compared to other minority groups, and not enough to justify a transpacific flight on its own. By some accounts it's only 80,000. For a route that wouldn't rely on much premium traffic, that is not enough.)

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: STT757
Posted 2012-12-26 16:52:56 and read 4817 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
Longhaul routes that depend exclusively on tourist traffic are rarely profitable.

That's why it should stop in Guam to pick up Government traffic, and to offer connections from Japan.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: COSPN
Posted 2012-12-26 17:44:00 and read 4620 times.

GUM-DPS was axed after Bali Bombing #2 you just cant make it work from the USA and Japan with stuff like that  

The flight was 90% Japan conecting traffic via Guam

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: The777Man
Posted 2012-12-26 19:06:28 and read 4334 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Its a JV flight, and as result it is metal neutral. So flight is as much a UA one as NH from the business end.

UA and NH may have a JV but there's really no thing such as "metal neutral"; either it's one airline or the other. The words are a misnomer for the average passenger and spotter.

The777Man

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-26 20:53:55 and read 4021 times.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 20):
there's really no thing such as "metal neutral"

Actually there is...much like with A++ (the JV between UA/AC and LH Group) all revenue and costs on the flights that are part of the JV are split between UA and NH. It doesn't matter which airline operates the flights or which airline sells the ticket it all goes into the same pot.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: The777Man
Posted 2012-12-27 01:05:21 and read 3678 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 21):
Actually there is...much like with A++ (the JV between UA/AC and LH Group) all revenue and costs on the flights that are part of the JV are split between UA and NH. It doesn't matter which airline operates the flights or which airline sells the ticket it all goes into the same pot.

I understand that but the aircraft flying is always from ONE airline; either UA or NH, UA or AC etc. The aircraft itself is not a white aircraft; it's an aircraft in ONE airlines color.

The777Man

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: factsonly
Posted 2012-12-27 01:40:07 and read 3631 times.

Capacity between the USA and KUL has been improved this Winter season with the frequency expansion by the MH/KL cooperation on KUL-AMS-KUL from 14x to 17x weekly - currently the highest frequency KUL-Europe route. The airlines provide frequent one-stop connection from KUL to all of USA via AMS. The US East Coast being just 21 hours away from KUL over Europe and 24 hours over the Pacific.

KUL departures connect to both the early morning departures AMS-USA and the afternoon departures AMS-USA.

- dep. 09:50 KUL - arr. 15:15 AMS KL 0812 Non-Stop B777 Sun
- dep. 09:15 KUL - arr. 15:15 AMS MH 9214 Non-Stop B777 Sun
- dep. 09:50 KUL - arr. 15:35 AMS KL 0812 Non-Stop B747M Tue, Thu
- dep. 09:50 KUL - arr. 15:35 AMS MH 9214 Non-Stop B747M Tue, Thu
- dep. 23:45 KUL - arr. 05:55 AMS KL 0810 Non-Stop B773 Daily
- dep. 23:45 KUL - arr. 05:55 AMS MH 9016 Non-Stop B773 Daily
- dep. 23:59 KUL - arr. 06:35 AMS KL 4102 Non-Stop B777 Daily
- dep. 23:59 KUL - arr. 06:35 AMS MH 16 Non-Stop B777 Daily


- dep. 12:00 AMS - arr. 07:00 KUL KL 4103 Non-Stop B772
- dep. 12:00 AMS - arr. 07:00 KUL MH 17 Non-Stop B772
- dep. 12:35 AMS - arr. 07:20 KUL KL 0811 Non-Stop B747M
- dep. 12:35 AMS - arr. 07:20 KUL MH 9215 Non-Stop B747M
- dep. 12:35 AMS - arr. 07:30 KUL KL 0811 Non-Stop B772
- dep. 12:35 AMS - arr. 07:30 KUL MH 9215 Non-Stop B772
- dep. 20:50 AMS - arr. 15:45 KUL KL 0809 Non-Stop B773
- dep. 20:50 AMS - arr. 15:45 KUL MH 9017 Non-Stop B773

MH operates 14 weekly to LHR T4 non-stop
MH operates 7x weekly to CDG non-stop
MH operates 5x weekly to FRA non-stop.
LH operates 4x weelky to FRA with 1x stop

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-27 07:29:51 and read 3443 times.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 22):
I understand that but the aircraft flying is always from ONE airline; either UA or NH, UA or AC etc. The aircraft itself is not a white aircraft; it's an aircraft in ONE airlines color.

It's still metal neutral in that it doesn't matter which airline flies the flight....that's all metal neutral means. Of course it will still be scheduled as one airline or the other....

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: quiet1
Posted 2012-12-27 08:04:52 and read 3484 times.

At one point I recall speculation that UA had considered extending the SFO-TPE flight to continue TPE-KUL, but they ended up cancelling the SFO-TPE service. It would seem a way to get their foot in the door to KUL and to help prop up the SFO-TPE loads with the through passengers on an airplane that otherwise would sit idle overnight in TPE.

Now that UA is reinstating SFO-TPE -- and on a 744 to boot -- I wonder if that option has been considered again.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: The777Man
Posted 2012-12-27 10:46:44 and read 3371 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 24):
Of course it will still be scheduled as one airline or the other....

That was exactly my point.

The777Man

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-27 13:45:50 and read 3282 times.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 26):
Quoting United1 (Reply 24):
Of course it will still be scheduled as one airline or the other....

That was exactly my point.

...but you are incorrect that there is no such thing as metal neutral.

The JV schedules capacity and flights as if there is no difference between the airlines in the JV. Think of it as a kind of wet lease...the JV schedules UA or NH based on which airline has available capacity sized to meet the demand on that route. Take ORD-NRT for instance...come this summer the JV will be operating 3 daily flights on the route. 2 77Ws and a 1 772...from NH and UA perspective its irrelevant which airline operates the flights. All 3 are jointly marketed, sold and all revenue and cost is shared.

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: The777Man
Posted 2012-12-28 02:09:02 and read 2990 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 27):

Quoting The777Man (Reply 26):
Quoting United1 (Reply 24):
Of course it will still be scheduled as one airline or the other....

That was exactly my point.

...but you are incorrect that there is no such thing as metal neutral.

The JV schedules capacity and flights as if there is no difference between the airlines in the JV. Think of it as a kind of wet lease...the JV schedules UA or NH based on which airline has available capacity sized to meet the demand on that route. Take ORD-NRT for instance...come this summer the JV will be operating 3 daily flights on the route. 2 77Ws and a 1 772...from NH and UA perspective its irrelevant which airline operates the flights. All 3 are jointly marketed, sold and all revenue and cost is shared.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that; all I'm saying is that each airline is different therefore any flight is operated by ONE airline.

I simply don't agree with the term metal neutral from a spotter's perspective. For the airline and perhaps passenger as well, it may not make a difference. NH is NH UA is UA. The color of the aircraft at the gate has the colors of one airline.

Same with a wet lease; one airline operates the flight.

The777Man

Topic: RE: Will UA Fly To KUL/MNL?
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2012-12-28 02:51:43 and read 2967 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 24):
It's still metal neutral in that it doesn't matter which airline flies the flight....that's all metal neutral means. Of course it will still be scheduled as one airline or the other

It does matter, actually. Fly a UA flight under a UA flight number, and you'll receive credit towards UA Million Miler status. Fly the same flight under the NH codeshare, and you'll still receive credit towards Million Miler status. Fly an NH flight using the UA codeshare, and you'll receive zero credit towards Million Miler status.

Metal still counts, even with flights covered by the JV. Anything else is simply a.net mythology.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/