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Topic: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: g500
Posted 2012-12-26 19:37:28 and read 6226 times.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/southw...nces-between-denver-173400713.html


AirTran will operate the route daily starting March 2013

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: toltommy
Posted 2012-12-26 19:49:08 and read 6175 times.

So AirTran continues to do what Southwest cannot? I know financially it probably wasn't possible, but it makes me wonder how this "merger" would have gone if AirTran had done the buying.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: g500
Posted 2012-12-26 20:07:07 and read 6079 times.

I don't understand why Southwest can't do Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, San Juan PR etc with their own metal? They can turn around those 737s very quickly at all these airports, even with customs/immigration standing on the way... Instead they choose to fly into PHL, EWR, LGA, airports plagued by delays.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: 737tanker
Posted 2012-12-26 20:12:05 and read 6042 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
I don't understand why Southwest can't do Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, San Juan PR etc with their own metal?


Southwest will be starting San Juan PR with their own metal in April, as for the others it is because the current reservation system can't handle international transactions. There will be a new reservation system up and running in 2013. When that happens you will see codesharing with AirTran and Southwest will be starting to take over the international flying.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-26 20:47:47 and read 5892 times.

More WN expansion here in DEN. Wow. Come on United! Southwest is now going to take a sector you aren't even in! But seriously, some days there haven't even been DEN-CUN flights on UA. Out of 440 daily UA/UX flights last summer, somewhere around 5 of them were widebodies. No intercontinental flights (though DEN-NRT will start soon.) I love seeing any DEN expansion, especially International (we need a lot of that!), but UA seems to be falling behind. Or rather was 5 years ago and now really needs to get back in. Down to 40% of the market. With the 787 they got a huge Denver Post feature mentioning the new NRT route. Great free publicity, but UA needs to do more or WN will be the leading carrier for all markets.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UNITED91
Posted 2012-12-26 23:47:02 and read 5545 times.

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
AirTran will operate the route daily starting March 2013

Good news for Southwest.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 4):
I love seeing any DEN expansion, especially International (we need a lot of that!), but UA seems to be falling behind.

As much as I'd like to see more international expansion in DEN, I don't see UA adding very much.. I could see a European flight added at some point, but other than that, I wouldn't expect much from UA in that regard.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-27 07:25:59 and read 5135 times.

Quoting UNITED91 (Reply 5):
I could see a European flight added at some point

Yeah...Though I'm not sure what. Does anyone know what the load factors were on the London Flight UA operated a couple years back? I could also see Paris or Madrid, but both are more heavily Skyteam or Oneworld, more so than LON. I could see UA upping the Caribbean and Mexico from DEN. Here in Colorado we love that area. Too much.

I wouldn't be surprised to see UA flying NRT, LHR, and CDG (or some other European city) from Denver, and adding some Leisure destinations. I would be surprised to see more than 2 EU cities and major South American or Asian Expansion. Though next thing you know, EK could be here  .

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: g500
Posted 2012-12-27 07:46:18 and read 5039 times.

Cabo is coming of age, I noticed US Airways upgraded PHX-SJD to 757

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-27 08:15:43 and read 4971 times.

This is the route awarded earlier in the month:
DOT Awards AirTran DEN-SJD, Strips Republic (by LAXintl Dec 4 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: PHXMKEflyer
Posted 2012-12-27 11:35:12 and read 4554 times.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 1):
So AirTran continues to do what Southwest cannot?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this?

Southwest has been utilizing its wholly owned subsidiary AirTran in order to expand into international markets, namely Mexico, from mid-to-large size WN stations (DEN,SAT,AUS,SNA) with AirTran metal as Southwest reservations system can not yet handle international itineraries. These moves are simply paving the way for WN int'l expansion once FL is fully integrated in to WN.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: HiFlyerAS
Posted 2012-12-27 12:52:49 and read 4110 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 4):
With the 787 they got a huge Denver Post feature mentioning the new NRT route. Great free publicity, but UA needs to do more or WN will be the leading carrier for all markets.

WN got lots of attention on the web yesterday about this new route...which I found odd. Since when does a single new route out of a mid-size city merit national attention?

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-12-27 13:59:29 and read 3736 times.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 1):
So AirTran continues to do what Southwest cannot? I know financially it probably wasn't possible, but it makes me wonder how this "merger" would have gone if AirTran had done the buying.
Quoting 737tanker (Reply 3):
Southwest will be starting San Juan PR with their own metal in April, as for the others it is because the current reservation system can't handle international transactions.

Things will start to become clearer very soon with all of this. 2013 is going to be an exciting year for WN.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 10):
WN got lots of attention on the web yesterday about this new route...which I found odd. Since when does a single new route out of a mid-size city merit national attention?
WN media machine is definitely still a well oiled machine.

[Edited 2012-12-27 13:59:44]

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-27 14:54:09 and read 3470 times.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 10):
WN got lots of attention on the web yesterday about this new route...which I found odd. Since when does a single new route out of a mid-size city merit national attention?

Since WN media wanted it to. As I said, we love our Mexico and Caribbean.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: SWALoveField
Posted 2012-12-27 16:55:08 and read 3023 times.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Things will start to become clearer very soon with all of this. 2013 is going to be an exciting year for WN.


And not to mention 2014 will be equally exciting for WN as the Wright Amendment goes away and Love Field's complete renovation is to be completed.

Robb
Dallas, TX

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: klwright69
Posted 2012-12-27 17:04:34 and read 2976 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be surprised to see UA flying NRT, LHR, and CDG (or some other European city) from Denver, and adding some Leisure destinations. I would be surprised to see more than 2 EU cities and major South American or Asian Expansion. Though next thing you know, EK could be here .

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see EK here, BUT not very soon.

BA and LH are always full to DEN. But about yields, who knows. Even in the olden days CO was always full to LGW nonstop from DEN. Traffic is not the issue.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: yvphx
Posted 2012-12-27 19:17:03 and read 2483 times.

Quoting g500 (Reply 7):

appears seasonal. I searched this route into January, and only a bunch of A320 and A319. What a bummer!

Hope to see bigger metal on the Mexico routes from Phoenix!

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-27 19:47:36 and read 2374 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 14):
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see EK here, BUT not very soon.

BA and LH are always full to DEN

True. In the future, as 77W routes are upgraded to A380s and down the chain, I could see maybe an A350-900 on the route. In a while though. I wonder if UA would be more inclined to start up more Long Haul routes if the Landing Fees were lower. Costs a lot to land a 772 here.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-12-28 11:20:14 and read 2036 times.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 14):
BA and LH are always full to DEN. But about yields, who knows.

While domestically, DEN for quite a while has been known to be low yielding, although not always the lowest yielding even with WWIII being waged on its turf here, DEN has the lowest domestic to international service ratio by far among the major airports of the world, something like 93% or so.

As for international routes, since there aren't that many, I've read here from fellow a.netters that these, and myself seen some anecdotal online evidence that DEN is quite high in international yields - especially long haul with only BA and LH service, with these nonstops costing several hundred dollars higher over connects.

Maybe FI has affected this a bit this last year, and they are now 4X weekly throughout the year, and will increase to 6X next summer.

And with the UA 787 daily to NRT, this will now at least start not to give corporations in the area an excuse to move offices out of the area due to lack of long haul international air service.

The recently released Brooking Institute report about U.S. international air service really answered a lot of questions and put things into prospective.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

This shows that DEN has more O&D into Seoul than it does Tokyo (58 vs.54 pax per day), could probably support at least 4X weekly to CDG, and with regard to a recent thread here about a debate whether NZ should fly nonstop from Auckland to either Denver or Houston, well...... Denver has 15 pax O&D per day between the two, and Houston has only 6 pax O&D per day here...... I think that NZ would be wise to choose DEN when it decides to expand, eh?

 

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: AS739X
Posted 2012-12-28 11:35:36 and read 2010 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 4):
outhwest is now going to take a sector you aren't even in!

Think UA is really concerned over a low yield Mexico route?

Look at the SFO hub, AS operated daily PVR/SJD and even MZT/CUN/ZIH, while UA was still operating 3 and 4 weekly to SJD/PVR only for years. The low yield market is not worth the fight.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-28 11:53:56 and read 1992 times.

I don't think they're concerned. But they should at least try to compete on some leisure routes. WN is hurting yields even more than DEN fees normally do on Midwest and on over to the west coast e specially. UA could actually try to compete. EU routes shouldn't be too hard. BA, LH, and FI all serve one destination each. However, I love to see International expansion at DEN. What is the domestic to international ratio at other UA hubs, especially IAH and ORD?

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: AS739X
Posted 2012-12-28 12:13:00 and read 1951 times.

United seems to be happy with DEN as is, in my opinion. Other then the NRT service, there doesn't seem to be a flurry of new routes being expanded out of DEN.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-28 12:25:33 and read 1936 times.

We are in the middle of world war airline edition. WN, AA, UA, and F9 to LAX, plus some of those to other LA area Airports. All of those plus NK to Chicago and Dallas. WN and FL, UA, DL, F9 to ATL. The only monopoly routes are a few Great Lakes, some UX, a handful of UA/WN mainline, and international. So to keep the DEN O&D up, monopoly sectors or trying to kill off the competition are the options. F9 might die, AA/US might merge, but WN and DL will always be here. And I'm not betting on F9 dying, and AA/US would be a large competitor. The hubs carriers are all fighting, and meanwhile the other legacies are getting passengers and B6 is growing. More and more domestic pax are taking WN, so UA should do something.
But for now.........Keep fighting!! I love the selection and routes and capacity and frequency. This new WN route will be well received.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: enilria
Posted 2012-12-28 12:39:17 and read 1919 times.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 1):
So AirTran continues to do what Southwest cannot? I know financially it probably wasn't possible, but it makes me wonder how this "merger" would have gone if AirTran had done the buying.

Well, AirTran couldn't have bought WN, but there is truth that WN management is so wedded to their systems, contracts, poorly performing stations, and fleet that they are basically destroying FL and using them as a stooge to do things they should be embarrassed they cannot do themselves.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-28 12:42:56 and read 1904 times.

Poorly performing stations? I do agree with you, however, that they have some hiccups in the system that should've been solved 5 yeas ago. Or easily worked around in the first place.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: ouboy79
Posted 2012-12-28 12:43:48 and read 1904 times.

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
Well, AirTran couldn't have bought WN, but there is truth that WN management is so wedded to their systems, contracts, poorly performing stations, and fleet that they are basically destroying FL and using them as a stooge to do things they should be embarrassed they cannot do themselves.

It'll be so nice when we'll be away for this period where people keep posting comments like this. Of course then they'll need to find something else to whine about, which I'm sure won't be that difficult.

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: point2point
Posted 2012-12-28 14:30:26 and read 1871 times.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 20):
there doesn't seem to be a flurry of new routes being expanded out of DEN.

Since the announcement of the merger between UA and CO in May of 2010, these are the new nonstop destinations additions and cancellations the I’ve found reported at DEN. Below are the months of these announcements.

ADDITIONS

10/10
Denver – Amarillo
Denver – Dallas Love Field – to be cancelled
Denver – Lubbock

11/10
restarted Denver – Ft. Lauderdale – cancelled 3/11, yet this route is nonstop still and currently running and bookable on UA

1/12
Denver – Fairbanks – seasonal

5/12
Denver – Tokyo Narita service with Boeing 787

6/12
Denver – Shreveport
Denver – Grand Forks

7/12
Denver – Williston
Also the Announcement of Dash 8 – Q400 operation at DEN

10/12
Denver – Laramie

12/12
Denver – Fort McMurray - seasonal
Denver – Santa Fe

Other

Extending ANC from summer seasonal to yearly
Extending MEX into months other than Dec-Jan, with erratic scheduling

CANCELLATIONS

1/11
LHR cancelled, but some may argue that UA hardly gave BA any run for its money here.

3/12
Denver – Oakland


SUMMARY

New destination additions
10 new domestic routes started
2 international routes started - NRT and YMM
ANC now yearly and MEX extended with erratic scheduling

Destinations cancelled
2 domestic – OAK, and then DAL started and cancelled, although DAL may return in 2014 after the lifting of the Wright Amendment, since a 50 seater-bird operating here is quite costly
1 international – the seasonal LHR


I'm not quite sure how this compares to the other UA hubs, but these are the changes since the merger that I have found in DEN. However, I think that I can agree that maybe it's not really a flurry, although the DEN-NRT route has been what the airport management and city officials have been wanting for the last 10+ years, and only paid $22M for it. This has to be their gem....... and probably the highest amount paid for a route yet, eh?

 

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-28 14:39:54 and read 1840 times.

Got to agree about the NRT route. This isn't really a flurry of expansion, and it isn't really bad, but it doesn't look great compared to the WN expansion. How many routes have been started in the past 2 or 3 years from DEN by WN?

Topic: RE: Southwest Announces Denver-San Jose Del Cabo
Username: UNITED91
Posted 2012-12-28 17:32:47 and read 1693 times.

Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
This shows that DEN has more O&D into Seoul than it does Tokyo (58 vs.54 pax per day), could probably support at least 4X weekly to CDG, and with regard to a recent thread here about a debate whether NZ should fly nonstop from Auckland to either Denver or Houston, well...... Denver has 15 pax O&D per day between the two, and Houston has only 6 pax O&D per day here...... I think that NZ would be wise to choose DEN when it decides to expand, eh?

Thanks for the information, interesting to see Denver having a higher O&D to Aukland than Houston. It'd be quite impressive if Denver could land NZ.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 26):
Got to agree about the NRT route. This isn't really a flurry of expansion, and it isn't really bad, but it doesn't look great compared to the WN expansion. How many routes have been started in the past 2 or 3 years from DEN by WN?

You can't really compare WN's expansion in Denver to that of UA. WN entered DEN back in 2006, expanded like crazy, and they now have 163 daily flights. UA won't do anything close to that.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 20):
United seems to be happy with DEN as is, in my opinion. Other then the NRT service, there doesn't seem to be a flurry of new routes being expanded out of DEN.

I agree, I don't expect UA to expand very much in DEN. An added route here and there seems to be their plan moving forward. UA seems content with continuing with what they've been doing in recent years.


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