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Topic: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 04:31:27 and read 18373 times.

Sadly it seems that the 747-400s days are numbered with major operators planning to retire the type or already has retired it. However threre are still quite a few operators flying the 744. Here are some that I believe use the 744 on regular scheduled flights

KL
AF
BA
LH
VS
UA
DL
QF
TG
KE
CX
NH
CA
CI
LY
SV
UN

It would be great if we all could help out to fill this list with how many 744s each carrier has and when they plan to retire the type. This will give us 747-400 aficionados a good and complete list of where we can hop on a 744, and for how much longer.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2012-12-25 04:49:46 and read 18321 times.

The KL has 26 744 aircraft in their fleet: 4x cargo, 17x combi and 5x full pax. The full pax models will be replaced by 77W aircraft while the combi's will be replaced by 787's and A350s'. However, it will take until 2020 at least before all 744 aircraft are gone.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: CXB77L
Posted 2012-12-25 04:52:18 and read 18298 times.

As far as I know, CX will retire their last 744 in 2016. Based on the CX Interim Results presentation for this year, they currently have 21 pax 744s, 4 of which are on operating leases, and the last of which will expire in 2016. I have heard that CX are accelerating plans for 744 retirement, but even assuming they retire all their owned pax 744s before 2016, it appears that they'll still be operating the leased aircraft until then.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 04:56:18 and read 18269 times.

Just to specify, the list should only contain active 744s, none that are stored but still owned by the airline.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

Thanks, that is a great start!


KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH
VS
UA
DL
QF
TG
KE
CX
NH
CA
CI
LY
SV
UN

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: columba
Posted 2012-12-25 05:09:06 and read 18203 times.

Lufthansa is cuurently replacing its older 747-400 with A380s and 747-8Is. The newer 747-400s are planned to stay for a few years flying side by side with its newer siblings the 747-8I- With Lufthansa you have a chance to fly on the 747 for at least 20 more years  

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2012-12-25 05:23:25 and read 18108 times.

Qantas has postponed some of the A380 deliveries and decided to refurbish 9 of the 18 744 aircraft, so they will stay in the fleet for a little bit longer. The last 747 aircraft should leave the fleet by 2021.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-12-25 05:25:09 and read 18096 times.

Air New Zealand apparently still has 2 Boeing 747 400's in service. The type is said to be retired from their fleet in 2015.

Air Pacific also still have 2 Boeing 747 400's. They will be retired from the fleet in 2013 apparently.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Akiestar
Posted 2012-12-25 05:28:04 and read 18064 times.

All five PR 744s are still in service, although rumors are going around that they will be retired by 2017.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Thomas_Jaeger
Posted 2012-12-25 05:29:09 and read 18061 times.

Air India, Air New Zealand, Air Pacific, Air Pullmantur, Asiana Airlines, Corsair International, EVA Air, Garuda Indonesia, Lion Airlines, Malaysia Airlines, Philippine Airlines and Royal Air Maroc all also still operate them on scheduled services.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 05:32:05 and read 18032 times.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 2):
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):

Fantastic, keep the good work up.

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH
VS
UA
DL
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX
NH
CA
CI
LY
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 7):
Air New Zealand apparently still has 2 Boeing 747 400's in service. The type is said to be retired from their fleet in 2015.

Do those two operate on scheduled flights or are they just used as back up planes?

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: zkojq
Posted 2012-12-25 06:02:10 and read 17863 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
Do those two operate on scheduled flights or are they just used as back up planes?

They are nearly always scheduled to operate NZ7/NZ8 to and from San Francisco as well as several trans-Tasman flights. I think they also get send up to Vancouver every once in a while. Both were bought from the lessors by Air New Zealand a few years back.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 06:07:30 and read 17841 times.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 12):

They are nearly always scheduled to operate NZ7/NZ8 to and from San Francisco as well as several trans-Tasman flights. I think they also get send up to Vancouver every once in a while. Both were bought from the lessors by Air New Zealand a few years back.

Good, then they should be included in the list.



KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH
VS
UA
DL
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX
NH
CA
CI
LY
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: justinlee
Posted 2012-12-25 06:51:43 and read 17679 times.

CA has 4x744, 5x74M and 11x74F in operation. There is no plan for retirement until now.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 07:00:52 and read 17621 times.

Quoting justinlee (Reply 12):
CA has 4x744, 5x74M and 11x74F in operation. There is no plan for retirement until now.

Does CA usually operate an a/c until the end of their usable life? Might give us an idea of how long they will keep their 747 fleet flying.


KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH
VS
UA
DL
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX
NH
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI
LY
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: wilco737
Posted 2012-12-25 07:09:31 and read 17587 times.

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS
UA
DL
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX
NH
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI
LY
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: kochikaze
Posted 2012-12-25 07:11:48 and read 17573 times.

NH has 5× 747-481D.
JA8957, JA8960, JA8961, JA8965 and JA8966
They will be retired until 2015.

[Edited 2012-12-25 07:13:39]

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: justinlee
Posted 2012-12-25 07:12:59 and read 17551 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 14):
Does CA usually operate an a/c until the end of their usable life? Might give us an idea of how long they will keep their 747 fleet flying.

CA usually utilizes their owned planes for quite a long time. But there is a higher possibility that CA will convert 747s to cargo aircraft.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 07:15:46 and read 17535 times.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 14):
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.

Hasnt LH announced any year for their last 744 to be retired?

Quoting kochikaze (Reply 15):
NH has 5 747-481D.
JA8957, JA8960, JA8961, JA8965 and JA8966
They will be retired until 2015.

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS
UA
DL
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI
LY
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017

Quoting justinlee (Reply 16):
CA usually utilizes their owned planes for quite a long time. But there is a higher possibility that CA will convert 747s to cargo aircraft.

Oh, I see. Hopefully CA wont convert them to 74Fs.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: wilco737
Posted 2012-12-25 07:22:24 and read 17480 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):
Hasnt LH announced any year for their last 744 to be retired?

Well, things at LH change rather quickly. I was told when I was at flight school I will never fly the 737... That was in 2001... And they are still around.
So the same for the 742 back then. So I guess we will see the 744 for many more years at LH as we have some rather new ones. The old ones will be retired pretty soon with the replacement 748's.

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 07:28:44 and read 17446 times.

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 18):
So I guess we will see the 744 for many more years at LH as we have some rather new ones. The old ones will be retired pretty soon with the replacement 748's.

I guess so. Isnt LH known for using aircraft until they reach the end of their serviceable lives? I know that at the time of retirement some of LH's 744s had the highest hours/cycles recorded on the type. I believe they hold a similar record for the 737s.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: wilco737
Posted 2012-12-25 07:30:00 and read 17449 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 19):

Yes, LH uses their airplanes quite long. Good service makes it possbile. The oldest 744 which are retired had over 120,000 hours and were from 1988. So quite old, but still an incredible reliability   

wilco737
  

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-25 07:55:29 and read 17320 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):
UA
DL

DL has 16 744s and has just done a complete cabin refurbishment on them. Despite being some of the oldest 744's (NW took delivery of the first 744) AFAIK there are no plans to retire them.

UA has 24 744's (23 mainline and 1 charter) UA announced some time ago that they intended on replacing them with the A350-900 however with the CO merger there is some talk of acquiring larger aircraft (350-1000, 737--300NG or 747-8i) to replace the 744's. They recently concentrated all of the 744s around SFO in order to improve dispatch reliability. UA finished retrofitting IPTE on the 744 a couple of years ago but is adding worldwide WiFi and streaming video to improve the experience in Y.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: trex8
Posted 2012-12-25 09:08:20 and read 16456 times.

CI has 13 744 in service and 18 744F, 3 744F in storage,and one leased out.
Just announced order for 6 77W (with purchase rights for 4) and lease another 4. Seems to be a 744 replacement program though initially the first ones will replace A343 till A359 delivered. They just spent over 100 million Us$ refurbishing the 744 cabins. First 77W delivery from GECAS 2014 but not sure when first 744 retirements would be., first A359s due 2016.

What they will do with their 744F fleet, the largest, is the 6 billion $ question for B! I don't see a for one for one replacement, they could do with something smaller for regional routes or even for the lower 48 states for transpac with transhipment via ANC etc, plus there is far more competition from newer carriers now. As most of their cargo business is electronics they probably would need the 7478F rather than a 777 F for the volume. With 24 A333s in service or due in next 2 years the A332F would fit well size wise as a smaller complement to the 747 and for commonality (except they would have to change engine suppliers as GE is not on the A332F).

The last 4 pax 744s are operated by CI, they were delivered 04/05. Hoping they stay till end of this decade!

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: xdlx
Posted 2012-12-25 09:22:18 and read 16232 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 21):

When last 744 retires from DL, the pilots will deadhead back in a D95  

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-25 09:28:14 and read 16144 times.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 23):
When last 744 retires from DL, the pilots will deadhead back in a D95  

....not sure about the D95's although something along the lines of a MD90/95/88 is possible  
Quoting United1 (Reply 21):
737--300NG

Oh...that's funny. I meant 777-300NG   Too much egg nog  

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: tommy525
Posted 2012-12-25 10:16:05 and read 16427 times.

You forgot EVA. EVA had four 747 combi , sold two but are still flying two of them. And they have a number of all passenger 744. However all are slated for retirement within the decade. The remaining two combi will be gone within 2 years FAIK, as they are near 20 years old.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2012-12-25 10:35:18 and read 16186 times.

Malaysia Airlines is also missing in the list, they currently operate 8 744 aircraft (6x pax, 2x freighter) and the pax models will be stored in Februari next year.

[Edited 2012-12-25 10:35:45]

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: sevenheavy
Posted 2012-12-25 10:50:44 and read 16777 times.

VS has 13. One, G-VTOP, will be retired in Jan 2013.

The 7 remaining leisure configured B744 (G-VROM,GAL,LIP,ROS,ROY,AST,XLG) have all just been refurbished and will be around until at least 2019.

The other 5 (G-VFAB, HOT, BIG, WOW, ROC) are in the lower density configuration of J44 W62 Y261 and will probably be around until;

A) they are replaced like for like by A380 (IF they arrive) from 2015 onwards
B) they are replaced by a similar high capacity aircraft (A359, maybe B77W) from 2015, depending on what replaces them
C) the other B744 are retired, due to lower demand for larger capacity aircraft and they are replaced by B789 (this is unlikely, as the B789 are required to replace the A346 which will probably be gone before the B744)

Whichever scenario occurs they wil be in the VS fleet until at least 2019.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: joshu
Posted 2012-12-25 11:05:29 and read 16396 times.

National Airlines also has a few 744s around.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-25 11:13:28 and read 16413 times.

Quoting B747forever (Thread starter):
Sadly it seems that the 747-400s days are numbered

Why sadly?

We are talking about a model that has been around for almost 25-years now, whose economics and market placement is not as compelling compared to more modern options.

Its simple life where progress leads to obsolescence.

Quoting tommy525 (Reply 25):
You forgot EVA. EVA had four 747 combi , sold two but are still flying two of them. And they have a number of all passenger 744. However all are slated for retirement within the decade. The remaining two combi will be gone within 2 years FAIK, as they are near 20 years old.

With the follow on order of 7 more 77Ws this year it was mentioned the current 6 strong 744 fleet would drop to 4 in 2013, and the last 4 examples would be gone by 2015.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: boeing727
Posted 2012-12-25 11:17:27 and read 16298 times.

Transaero has large fleet of them...probably will be flying them for some time to come in addition to their B743s..

Boeing727

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 11:40:03 and read 16032 times.

Thank you guys, this is great.

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 29):
Why sadly?

We are talking about a model that has been around for almost 25-years now, whose economics and market placement is not as compelling compared to more modern options.

The same reason why some will miss the MD80s, MD11 or any other model. Everything doesnt always have to do with economics.

Quoting United1 (Reply 21):
DL has 16 744s and has just done a complete cabin refurbishment on them. Despite being some of the oldest 744's (NW took delivery of the first 744) AFAIK there are no plans to retire them

Didnt they say 2016?

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-25 11:50:02 and read 15809 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 31):
Quoting United1 (Reply 21):
DL has 16 744s and has just done a complete cabin refurbishment on them. Despite being some of the oldest 744's (NW took delivery of the first 744) AFAIK there are no plans to retire them

Didnt they say 2016?

Not that I know of...you may be thinking of UA which plans on starting to retire them in 2016.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-12-25 11:50:23 and read 15857 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 19):
I guess so. Isnt LH known for using aircraft until they reach the end of their serviceable lives? I know that at the time of retirement some of LH's 744s had the highest hours/cycles recorded on the type. I believe they hold a similar record for the 737s.

LH seems to take very loving care of their aircraft in order to maximize their serviceable life. They have even spun off their aircraft service capabilities in the form of Lufthansa Technik, with a world-wide network of facilities and contracts with many airlines from all over the globe.

The 744 is an old bird, but she can still be flown profitably. She is still a modern airliner, very different from the original 741.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 11:53:46 and read 15826 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 32):

Not that I know of...you may be thinking of UA which plans on starting to retire them in 2016.

When will the last 744 fly for UA?

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-25 11:58:55 and read 15737 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 34):
When will the last 744 fly for UA?

Assuming that delivery of the 359's are on schedule and UA does actually replace the 744s with 359's the last 747 should leave the fleet in 2019.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-12-25 12:01:50 and read 15684 times.

Which airline at anytime in history operated the largest fleet? And about how many? PanAm? BA? Just a guess!

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-25 12:05:16 and read 15701 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 36):

Which airline at anytime in history operated the largest fleet? And about how many? PanAm? BA? Just a guess!

Of all types of 747s? JL or BA....I would have to go back and count how many but booth would be around 70+ at their peak.

UA had 60 at one point before the 777s started coming online...18 741, 9 742, 11 74L and 22 744.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 12:07:28 and read 15710 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 35):

Assuming that delivery of the 359's are on schedule and UA does actually replace the 744s with 359's the last 747 should leave the fleet in 2019.

Thanks!

Quoting VC10er (Reply 36):
Which airline at anytime in history operated the largest fleet? And about how many? PanAm? BA? Just a guess!

BA I guess.

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: jet-lagged
Posted 2012-12-25 12:18:28 and read 15432 times.

It is nice to see this list and conversation. With SQ having retired their's already, I had it in mind that there were just a handful of years at the major carriers left in the old girl. Seems more like several.

And Merry Christmas everyone!

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: rafabullara
Posted 2012-12-25 12:36:20 and read 15192 times.

There's at least one more 744 flying around!

YI-AQQ is operating for IA. Dunno if it's a charter, VIP, but for sure is not a cargo plane!

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2012-12-25 12:38:30 and read 15130 times.

YI-AQQ is leased from AAR Corporation.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2012-12-25 12:42:31 and read 15155 times.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 36):
Which airline at anytime in history operated the largest fleet? And about how many? PanAm? BA? Just a guess!

If you're just talking 744's I think it goes BAB, JAL, UAL. However, I think JAL for several years was flying the largest fleet of 747's (all types).

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: jwhite9185
Posted 2012-12-25 13:06:30 and read 14833 times.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 27):
A346 which will probably be gone before the B744

4x have already gone, plus another 2x pretty soonish. They're already in the process of being replaced by the A333. I can see all the 744's heading over to LGW eventually and LHR being a 789/A333 base.

Having said that, their oldest 2x 744's (G-VFAB/G-VHOT) are 19 years old next year so nearing the end of their lifespan unfortunately. The other 3x of the original 5x aren't much younger (G-VBIG/G-VAST/G-VXLG) and as you correctly mentioned G-VTOP is heading off shortly. Be interesting to see if it finds a new lease of life or heads for the scrapper as its a 1997 build, so not exactly one of the newest out there.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2012-12-25 13:18:16 and read 14649 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 31):
Didnt they say 2016?

I've heard nothing.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 36):
Which airline at anytime in history operated the largest fleet?

My guess is Japan Airlines...60?

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: sevenheavy
Posted 2012-12-25 13:24:44 and read 14636 times.

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 43):

The next two A346 don't go until August and October next year (G-VGOA/ATL)

LHR will probably need the capacity for LAX/SFO/MIA/NYC until something similar comes along. G-VHOT and G-VBIG are not necessarily coming to the end of their life. I think 'AB is paid for, and 'OT is not far behind. They could easily last until 2015 or layer if required, as they have at least another 35000 hours ( enough for something like 7 years at current utilisation) in them under their current lifespan certification. (I believe LH was retiring theirs at @120k hours without issues or restrictions)

The others have even fewer hours, and could conceivably go another 10 years.

Interestingly the A346 were returned with barely 50k hours on them. The leases on the leisure B744 were renewed with over 55k already on them which suggests that VS still find them to be a very useful aircraft

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: 7BOEING7
Posted 2012-12-25 14:16:29 and read 13951 times.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 44):
My guess is Japan Airlines...60?

Airfleets.net lists them with 126 historical, B lists 108 deliveries and there were some -400BCF's they also purchased (I don't know where those came from). I heard that at one point their fleet was over 90 in service.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Boeing74741R
Posted 2012-12-25 14:38:20 and read 13740 times.

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 43):
4x have already gone, plus another 2x pretty soonish. They're already in the process of being replaced by the A333. I can see all the 744's heading over to LGW eventually and LHR being a 789/A333 base.

All A330s ordered by VS have been delivered and the sub-leased Air China A330s have returned to VS.

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 43):
Having said that, their oldest 2x 744's (G-VFAB/G-VHOT) are 19 years old next year so nearing the end of their lifespan unfortunately.

To be honest I wouldn't use age as a sole definition of an aircraft's lifespan and it should be added that younger aircraft have been withdrawn and it is known for aircraft to still fly 35+ years after being built.

Also VS have operated 747-200s in the past which were well over 20 years old before VS retired them, though admittedly this is going back to the 1990s and early-2000s when VS had 747-200s in the fleet.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: NWADTWE16
Posted 2012-12-25 15:29:39 and read 13142 times.

Great thread..regarding JL..i cant believe how quickly they retired their fleet =(
DL will def hang on to those for awhile, if anything, as ive stated before, they were a golden nugget in the merger and a source of pride for the combined carrier. Still nice to see as many as three on the deck at once at DTW..doesnt beat when NW would five or six mostly side by side but still bohemiths that can be seen all the way from 94

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: CX Flyboy
Posted 2012-12-25 15:31:34 and read 13194 times.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 2):
As far as I know, CX will retire their last 744 in 2016.

Latest rumour is that the 744 retirement has been postponed a little later. Many of the remaining 744s in the fleet are undergoing business class cabin refurbishment (instead of getting the new business class). The end date of the 744s might remain the same but the number of retirements next year might be less than original.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-25 15:36:37 and read 13142 times.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 2):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 49):

Adding CX with 21 744s.

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: american 767
Posted 2012-12-25 16:07:04 and read 12957 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 50):
BA

BA still has 50 or so 744s in its fleet, more than any other operator, but the retirement of those is already taking place. I believe that the last one will leave in the early 2020s. BA was also one of the earliest 744 operators, taking delivery of the then all new 744 in 1989 when they were still flying a large fleet of Classic 747s. BA's first 744 was registered G-BNLA, not sure if this particular aircraft is still in active service. G-BNLA, along with the first few 747-436s, were delivered in the Landor scheme.

I thought of flying in one for this TATL trip using my AA miles, but the taxes were much higher so I ended up booking my trip on AA to LHR. While waiting for my connecting flight to BRU on T5, I spotted a lot of BA 744s around. I also spotted one BA 77W, this aircraft could be the long term 744 replacement at BA.

Ben Soriano

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: VC10er
Posted 2012-12-25 16:48:57 and read 12366 times.

Quoting american 767 (Reply 51):

The LANDOR livery for BA was designed on a 747 and presented to management on a 747 and Concorde, once approved it was adapted to all types in their fleet. The good old days when we HAD TO create FIRST on a 747 then everything else followed. The 747 was always considered the flagship.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: EL-AL
Posted 2012-12-25 18:51:11 and read 11181 times.

El Al is operating 6 passenger B744s and one Cargo B744F. Not only that there is no plan to retire them, but all planes were just installed with new Economy plus cabin, and two new planes were added to the fleet in 2008 and 2011 (ELE built in 1994 & ELH built in 1996).

In general, El Al usually retire it's jet at very old age (25 years at least) while LY's oldest 744 is 18 years old, so those 747s will fly in LY for a while before getting replaced.

Regs:

4X-ELA
ELB
ELC
ELD
ELE
ELF
ELH

so:

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF
BA
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY 7x 744 - retirement, not announced
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013

[Edited 2012-12-25 18:53:59]

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: twincommander
Posted 2012-12-25 19:31:24 and read 10724 times.

Asiana has a sizeable fleet of Pax, Cargo, and Combi...

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: CXfirst
Posted 2012-12-25 19:41:51 and read 10650 times.

Quoting american 767 (Reply 51):
BA's first 744 was registered G-BNLA, not sure if this particular aircraft is still in active service.

Stored in 2009.

-CXfirst

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: gauravpai
Posted 2012-12-25 22:38:12 and read 9362 times.

you have not put AI On the list

cheers

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-26 01:41:48 and read 8250 times.

Quoting american 767 (Reply 51):
BA still has 50 or so 744s in its fleet, more than any other operator, but the retirement of those is already taking place. I believe that the last one will leave in the early 2020s

According to planespotters.net they have 52 active 744s. Though I do not know how up to date that number is. Can anyone confirm if they operate all 52 744s?

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 53):
El Al is operating 6 passenger B744s and one Cargo B744F. Not only that there is no plan to retire them

Thanks!

Quoting twincommander (Reply 54):
Asiana has a sizeable fleet of Pax, Cargo, and Combi...
Quoting gauravpai (Reply 56):
you have not put AI On the list

cheers

How many 744s do the have active and what are the retirement plans?


In another thread I started several months ago, member FlySSC wrote that AF has 7x 744s and that they will be flying for AF until 2016.

PTVs On AF 747-400s? (by B747forever Apr 20 2012 in Aviation Polls)


KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF 7x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
BA
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY 6x 744 - retirement, not announced
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2012-12-26 03:10:07 and read 7319 times.

Quote:
How many 744s do the have active and what are the retirement plans?

Air India has 5 active 744 aircraft left. Back in 2009 they announced to retire the 747 but they are still flying around. No new retirement date has been announced as far as I know.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2012-12-26 03:25:10 and read 7183 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 57):
According to planespotters.net they have 52 active 744s. Though I do not know how up to date that number is. Can anyone confirm if they operate all 52 744s?

The BA website says 57 aircraft but it includes the 3 (stored) + 2 (scrapped) older aircraft. I would say 52 is correct.

BA is still evaluating the potential replacements for the whole 747 fleet.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...lacement-of-biggest-747-fleet.html

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-26 03:36:04 and read 7064 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 58):
Air India has 5 active 744 aircraft left.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 59):

The BA website says 57 aircraft but it includes the 3 (stored) + 2 (scrapped) older aircraft. I would say 52 is correct.

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF 7x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
BA 52x 744 - retirement, not announced
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY 6x 744 - retirement, not announced
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013
AI 5x 744 - retirement, not announced

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: qf002
Posted 2012-12-26 03:45:22 and read 6943 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 17):
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021

It's worth noting that 9 aircraft will be leaving the fleet over the next two years. QF has refurbished the other 9 aircraft (the ERs and three 1998-9 744s) which will see service through to 2020ish (to be replaced by A380s arriving 2016-19).

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-12-26 04:34:01 and read 6480 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
Do those two operate on scheduled flights or are they just used as back up planes?

Ithink they are still used for regular flights NZ still use them on the AKL/BNE services and I think every now and then one comes into MEL aswell.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-12-26 04:43:14 and read 6405 times.

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 39):
It is nice to see this list and conversation. With SQ having retired their's already, I had it in mind that there were just a handful of years at the major carriers left in the old girl. Seems more like several.

SQ have retired all their pax 747's but are still using their 74F's saw them at MEL and Singapore this year I think their freighters will be flying for a little wjhile yet.

and merry Christmas to you have a great new year.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: EL-AL
Posted 2012-12-26 06:01:45 and read 6229 times.

What about Transaero (UN)? They have no less then 19 B744s, and continue to buy second hand from all over the world.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Mortyman
Posted 2012-12-26 08:48:50 and read 5905 times.

Corsair International has 5 still flying

Pullmantur air has 4

Martinair has 5

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: twincommander
Posted 2012-12-26 08:51:22 and read 5904 times.

for asiana... 14, all active. 4 pax, 10 freight. combis arnt listed.
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Asiana%20Airlines-active-b747.htm

[Edited 2012-12-26 08:51:58]

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: joost
Posted 2012-12-26 08:58:54 and read 5882 times.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

The KL has 26 744 aircraft in their fleet: 4x cargo, 17x combi and 5x full pax. The full pax models will be replaced by 77W aircraft while the combi's will be replaced by 787's and A350s'. However, it will take until 2020 at least before all 744 aircraft are gone.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 60):
KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020

During the last 2 years KL have transformed 2 74Ms to 744s (full-pax): PH-BFH and PH-BFY. So it's 15x 74M, 7x 744. They will get new business class seats from June 2013.

For replacing 744 by 77W: that was a plan at the time that the 77Ws were ordered. But things have turned out differently, and now KL is flying quite much capacity with 7 x744s and 7x 77W together, with only one more 77W on order to be delivered next year.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: HOONS90
Posted 2012-12-26 09:00:08 and read 5872 times.

Korean Air has 15 pax 744s currently in service. Retirement date is not set in stone, but most of their replacement aircraft should arrive by the end of 2016 at the latest.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: KarelXWB
Posted 2012-12-26 09:08:20 and read 5826 times.

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 68):
Korean Air has 15 pax 744s currently in service. Retirement date is not set in stone, but most of their replacement aircraft should arrive by the end of 2016 at the latest.

Yes, Korean Air can replace their 744 pax fleet with the 10 A380 and 5 747-8i on order. However, a delivery date for the first 747-8i is not known yet.

[Edited 2012-12-26 09:11:24]

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: AirlineCritic
Posted 2012-12-26 09:54:01 and read 5705 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 60):
KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF 7x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
BA 52x 744 - retirement, not announced
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021
TG
KE
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY 6x 744 - retirement, not announced
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013
AI 5x 744 - retirement, not announced

So for the ones that have counts above, that is 257 aircraft.

I am interested in when the numbers of A380s trump the numbers of 744s in our skies. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A380_orders_and_deliveries 92 A380s have been delivered to date, and 262 ordered. This means that once all orders have been delivered, A380 will just exceed the number of 744s. Of course, more will be ordered and some existing orders will be cancelled or airlines behind them will go into bankruptcy.

But if we do not take into account order changes and assume that current orders are delivered at a slightly higher rate than what Airbus can handle today (28=>36), then the current orders should be exhausted by four years and eight months. So at the end of 2013 there should be 128 A380s flying, 164 for 2014, 200 for 2015, 236 for 2016, and 272 for 2017. Similarly, taking into account 744 retirements known above, by end of 2013 there should be 249 744s flying around, same for 2014, 236 for 2015, 208 for 2016, same for 2017. So by 2016 the A380s should exceed the numbers of 744s. But obviously if we knew the retirement schedules better, this date would probably change. I'm guessing all the operators above are in the process of retiring the 744s, so the retirements are probably done faster than what my numbers indicate.

Question, how many non-744 versions of the 747 are still flying for commercial passenger operations? Surely there are a few 748s at least. Are there any of the currently delivered A380s that are *not* flying for passenger operations or otherwise?

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-28 06:35:18 and read 4964 times.

Does anyone know about TG and their plans for the 744?

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF 7x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
BA 52x 744 - retirement, not announced
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021 (9x 744 retired by 2014)
TG
KE 15x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY 6x 744 - retirement, not announced
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013
AI 5x 744 - retirement, not announced

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-28 07:31:23 and read 4842 times.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 70):
So for the ones that have counts above, that is 257 aircraft.

There were 528 of the -400 built in a passenger (400, 400D, 400M and 400ER) configuration so I think we may be missing a few  

There have been a few scrapped and some more converted to freighters...but probably not 275 of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_747_operators

Wiki has a list of operators...maybe that will help out a bit.

[Edited 2012-12-28 07:35:40]

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: LAXintl
Posted 2012-12-28 08:45:56 and read 4700 times.

Some of you might be interested in this June article.

Boeing's 747-400, a Faded Queen of the Skies
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...747-400-a-faded-queen-of-the-skies

Quoting B747forever (Reply 31):
The same reason why some will miss the MD80s, MD11 or any other model. Everything doesnt always have to do with economics.

Airlines are a business where nostalgia does not pay the bills.

The 747 is simply a tool or means to an end. The types usefulness has come and gone for the industry.

You can think of it when you enjoy your next can of beer or soda.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 70):
I am interested in when the numbers of A380s trump the numbers of 744s in our skies

Its not only simply a matter of Airbus making deliveries, but pace airlines continue to park 747s.

So ultimately the cross over point likely be earlier then you estimate.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 71):
Does anyone know about TG and their plans for the 744?

Above article mentions "will begin phasing out the model in 2013. "

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: VV701
Posted 2012-12-28 08:51:11 and read 4689 times.

At the IAG Capital Markets Presentation on 9 November 2012 it was stated that it was currently planned to reduce the 52 currently active BA 744s to 45 as at end 2015:

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF 7x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
BA 52x 744 - ex 2 scrapped and 3 retired and stored VCV. 7 more planned for retirement by end 2015
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021 (9x 744 retired by 2014)
TG
KE 15x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY 6x 744 - retirement, not announced
SV
UN
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013
AI 5x 744 - retirement, not announced

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: mandala499
Posted 2012-12-28 08:56:59 and read 4673 times.

GA 2x 744 (previous was retired earlier this year), retirement unknown. (previously 2013 but now postponed).
JT 2x 744 irregular use, no retirement date (suspected end 2015 as 787s arrive).

Mandala499

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Yakamoz
Posted 2012-12-28 09:01:40 and read 4662 times.

TG will retire 6 B747-400 in 2012/2013, according to this article:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rcraft-over-next-six-years-359423/

At the moment they have 16 B747-400 and 2 B74F.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: B747forever
Posted 2012-12-28 09:09:11 and read 4690 times.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 73):
Airlines are a business where nostalgia does not pay the bills.

The 747 is simply a tool or means to an end. The types usefulness has come and gone for the industry.

You can think of it when you enjoy your next can of beer or soda.

So as an aviation enthusiast I am not allowed to like an airplane because it is "old and obsolete"?

I think it is quite an achievement that the 747-400 still flies with major carriers around the world and will be able to do so profitably in 2016 with BA that will have 45 of the type.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Spacepope
Posted 2012-12-28 09:20:31 and read 4648 times.

Adding the UN and SV fleet to the matrix, for completeness

KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
AF 7x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
BA 52x 744 - ex 2 scrapped and 3 retired and stored VCV. 7 more planned for retirement by end 2015
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or srapped.
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021 (9x 744 retired by 2014)
TG
KE 15x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
LY 6x 744 - retirement, not announced
SV 5x 744
UN 19x 744
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013
AI 5x 744 - retirement, not announced

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: 777way
Posted 2012-12-28 10:10:09 and read 4586 times.

Atlas, Air Atlanta, Orient Thai, Eagle Express, Kuwait Airways, while Biman and Sonair are two current leased operators too.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: babybus
Posted 2012-12-28 10:28:22 and read 4554 times.

It does seem there aren't that many 744 out there anymore. I flew two Air France 744s and both of them were well past their prime. The toilets and galleys looked like they were only held together with various glues.

They are beginning to look their age, especially the BA ones. When they are gone we'll think of them with the same affection as we do Concorde.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Yakamoz
Posted 2012-12-28 10:36:18 and read 4528 times.

What is about other Airlines using 744?

Air Atlanta Icelandic 9 744 / 4 74F / 1 744 stored in ROW
Asiana 2 744 / 10 74F / 2 74M
Iraqi Airways 1 744
Pullmantur Air 4 744
Royal Air Maroc 1 744
Corsair 5 744
Eaglexpress 1 744
Garuda Indonesia 2 744
Lion Air 2 744
Orient Thai 3 744 / 1 74M


Cargo Airlines:

AirBridge Cargo 8 74F
Air Cargo Germany 4 74F
Air Hong Kong 3 74F
Atlas Air 4 744 / 22 74F
Cargolux 11 74F
China Cargo Airlines 5 74F
China Southern Airlines Cargo 2 74F
Evergreen 3 74F
Grand Star Cargo 1 74F
Jade Cargo 6 74F
Kalitta Air 7 74F
Martinair 1 74F (+ 4 74F lsf KL)
Mycargo 2 74F
National Air Cargo 3 74F
Nippon Cargo 8 74F
Polar Air Cargo 8 74F
Silk Way Airlines 3 74F
Singapore Airlines Cargo 13 74F
TNT Airways 4 74F
UPS Airlines 13 74F
World Airways 2 74F
Yangtze RIver Express 3 74F

[Edited 2012-12-28 10:51:19]

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: by738
Posted 2012-12-28 10:36:28 and read 4558 times.

The BA 744's in particular in the new First cabins are no different internally to some of the other fleet. Infact the First cabin is identical to the brand new 773's. Economy cabins have superficial wear and tear which is easily remedied. Their maintenance is second to none.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: SEPilot
Posted 2012-12-28 10:52:27 and read 4519 times.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 45):
Interestingly the A346 were returned with barely 50k hours on them. The leases on the leisure B744 were renewed with over 55k already on them which suggests that VS still find them to be a very useful aircraft

Why would they keep the 744's when they are getting rid of A346's? I thought the CASM of the A346 was considerably better than the 744, to say nothing of the 744's being a lot older and having more cycles. Were the lease deals on the 744's much better than on the A346's? That's the only reason I can think of that makes sense.

As an aside, what has happened the the A346's that they returned? Is another airline flying them?

[Edited 2012-12-28 10:53:35]

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: Gr8Circle
Posted 2012-12-28 12:16:45 and read 4387 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 7):Air New Zealand apparently still has 2 Boeing 747 400's in service. The type is said to be retired from their fleet in 2015.
Do those two operate on scheduled flights or are they just used as back up planes?

I saw the Air New Zealand 744s at SFO twice in the last 4-5 days while I was out there.......seems to be a regular flight...last time I saw it was just yesterday as I was leaving SFO to come back to YYZ....they look great....

UA, VS, NZ and one of the Chinese airlines (not sure which one)......saw quite a few 744s at SFO....made me really happy  

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: 777way
Posted 2012-12-28 12:51:27 and read 4319 times.

Why not Kwait airways being listed, its more commercial than VIP.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: travelhound
Posted 2012-12-28 21:11:22 and read 4014 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 83):
I thought the CASM of the A346 was considerably better than the 744, to say nothing of the 744's being a lot older and having more cycles.

I think that might be a bit of a myth.

I remember Oasis Airlines stating the 744 was still one of the most economical (on a per seat basis) aircraft in the market. Admittedly they were flying them with high seat counts.

I think where the A346 shines over the 744 is on the longer missions where the 744 has to sacrifice payload for range. The A346 is also smaller aircraft so its trip costs are lower.

I am actually surprised by the number of operators who are upgrading the product on the 744. Even though its is yesterday's airplane there still must be operators who can fly the thing profitably.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: TWA772LR
Posted 2012-12-28 21:21:00 and read 3997 times.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):

UA is waiting for the A350 so I'd put the 747s starting to retire around 2017 and gone before 2022.

AF, aren't those almost all the way gone?

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2012-12-28 23:12:59 and read 3881 times.

Quoting travelhound (Reply 86):
I am actually surprised by the number of operators who are upgrading the product on the 744. Even though its is yesterday's airplane there still must be operators who can fly the thing profitably.

It's also the only 400+ seat aircraft available that isn't an A380. When you want some serious capacity, the 744 is hard to beat. And it's not as if it's a total gas guzzler. There are still 767's coming off the line that have essentially the same engines. And size alone makes a given aircraft more efficient per ASM.

The 744 isn't necessarily inefficient, per se. But it is bracketed on both sides by aircraft that are more efficient (the 77W and the 748i).

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: ZK-NBT
Posted 2012-12-29 01:07:46 and read 3806 times.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 84):
I saw the Air New Zealand 744s at SFO twice in the last 4-5 days while I was out there.......seems to be a regular flight

Currently daily 744s. SFO is NZs only long haul 744 route these days, i'm picking it will remain that way with only 2 aircraft in the fleet now. They still go to SYD, MEL, BNE, NAN in between when loads warrant it. SFO will see 772s in the Northern Summer 2013 several times a week along with 744s.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: sevenheavy
Posted 2012-12-29 05:42:13 and read 3567 times.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 83):

It really depends on which routes the aircraft are being deployed on. A B744 should still have better CASM when full of passengers. The A346 doesn't burn a lot less fuel than the B744, and with VS their MTOW is within 9t of the B744. The A346 comes into its own when it can be filled with freight, as it can carry considerably more than a B744, and even a B77W.

The A346 is best suited to long, cargo heavy routes like LHR - PVG/NRT/HKG/SYD/JNB/LAX and potentially MIA/LAX/JFK

The B744 is better for the higher passenger demand flights like the Caribbean and Florida leisure routes, LAS/LAX/MIA/SFO and JFK. I realise there is some overlap, which accounts for either multiple frequencies like LAX where there isn't quire the demand for 2 x daily LAX, or to JFK which has multiple daily frequencies as well as relatively high cargo demand.

The A333 is better suited to the medium haul routes like BOS/IAD/ORD/DEL/BOM/DXB, some NYC frequencies and off season flying.

The B744 still has a place that is difficult to fill. The B77W comes close, but its very expensive to buy. For most passengers there is still nothing like seeing a 747 at the gate. I know that's not a huge factor for airlines but on balance they still make sense, particularly now that lease rates are about half what they were a few years ago.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: trex8
Posted 2012-12-29 13:38:40 and read 3134 times.

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 90):
The A346 doesn't burn a lot less fuel than the B744

Per numbers previously quoted on this site by a CX pilot, a 744 burns 11000kg/hr, an A346 8900 and a 77W 8100.

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: sevenheavy
Posted 2012-12-29 14:27:17 and read 3047 times.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 91):

I recently compared two LHR-LAX flight plans. Same day. One B744, one A346. I can't remember the exact figures but I compared trip fuel rather than burn per hour (not that it makes a great deal of difference but the A346 is a bit slower so will take more time to complete the same trip)

The A346 burned @12% less fuel. They were similarly loaded %wise. Both around 85% pax load factor with similar underloads and % of MTOW.

whilst it can potentially carry more cargo, the A346 carries @20% less passengers, almost half of which are high yielding premium economy.

Now, if the A346 is hauling 28t of cargo no one cares about a few passengers, but it has to be hauling the freight.

I'm not suggesting this is scientific due to the small sample size, and there are myriad variables which could change things, but it gives a real world idea for comparison

Topic: RE: 744: Current Operators And Planned Retirements
Username: TSS
Posted 2012-12-29 21:09:55 and read 2842 times.

Putting the listed airlines in alphabetical order for ease of search.

AF 7x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
AI 5x 744 - retirement, not announced
BA 52x 744 - ex 2 scrapped and 3 retired and stored VCV. 7 more planned for retirement by end 2015
BR 2x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
CA 5x 74M/ 4x 744 - retirement, not announced
CI 13x 744 - retirement, not announced
CX 21x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
DL 16x 744 - retirement, not announced (?)
FJ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2013
KE 15x 744 - retirement ~ 2016
KL 17x 74M/ 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2020
LH Phasing them out slowly and adding 748. Currently around 23-26 active, rest stored or scrapped.
LY 6x 744 - retirement, not announced
MH 6x 744 - retirement ~ FEB 2013
NH 5x 74D - retirement ~ 2015
NZ 2x 744 - retirement ~ 2015
PR 5x 744 - retirement ~ 2017
QF 6x 744ER / 12x 744 - retirement ~ 2021 (9x 744 retired by 2014)
SV 5x 744
TG
UA 23x 744 - retirement ~ 2019
UN 19x 744
VS 13x 744 - retirement ~ 2019


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