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Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-12-29 17:39:39 and read 5111 times.

I know Delta used to have a decent operation at Long Island MacArthur Airport. In the 90s they saw DLX flights to MCO, FLL, etc and RJ service to CVG and ATL. They pulled out of ISP back in 2008 when oil spiked and they were preparing to work out a merger deal with NW.

Now, DL is doing very well. WN has actually backed down with connecting options leaving only BWI as a "hub" for connections as well as Florida flights. US flies to PHL and DCA but they are an arm and a leg (even a left nut sometimes) to get onto. So my question is whether or not DL could re-enter the ISP market with possible ATL/DTW service on a CRJ-700 or maybe even a DC-9/717 (especially to ATL when the 717s come in). I know they are focused a lot on LGA right now, but I believe they have done all of their expanding. I know ISP still has DL designated ticket counters as of 2011, so I thought maybe.

Anyway, just throwing it out there since ISP isn't connected to much of a mega hub for a lot of connections. Could also drive the US prices down a bit.

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-29 18:37:56 and read 4957 times.

They have so many LGA slots that they don't know how to use them

Perhaps bring back the 80s and early 90s with 4 times a day to LGA haha

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-29 19:18:19 and read 4850 times.

You never know with LGA...with all the "new" MD-80/90s and 717s, they could reasonably enter the market. My guess is a 717 if mainline. A couple daily CR7/CR9 flights to ATL or DTW might happen. Many other Airports will be receiving the MAX soon, and more MDs/717s will be free.

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: art at isp
Posted 2012-12-29 19:51:20 and read 4753 times.

Like many, I would welcome the return of DL to ISP, but I just don't think it will happen any time soon.

For one thing, DL has made a tremendous investment in LGA and JFK, and I don't think they want to dilute the traffic to either airport. The NYC airports are more important to carriers-more passengers, more profits. Look at WN-they built up ISP because in 1999 they could not or would not go into LGA....slots were scarce if not non-existant, and WN was still following a strategy of flying to secondary airports within major markets. Once they opened LGA, it spelled the beginning of the end for ISP, which now has barely 20 flights a day, as opposed to 50+ when WN was in their heyday there.

The other factor is that I don't think enough people would use ISP even if they came back. Airlines come and go there, and for whatever reason, if given a choice between ISP and LGA or JFK, the NYC airfares are usually considerably lower. ISP doesn't have enough variety of destinations to offset losses in certain markets, so I don't think it can be profitable for carriers like DL.

IF they did decide to come back, or if UA came back with IAD or even CLE or EWR, which they did in the 80's and early 90's, I would jump on it, and would be happy to connect all the time, as I did with US before they went downhill. You never know--we may see AA back at ISP in one form or another  

Happy New Year all.....

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-29 20:19:54 and read 4688 times.

The NYC airfares a lower for one reason: everyone serves them, giving a darn lot of competition. If ISP wasn't stealing from NYC and if there was a closer DL hub, they might serve it now. I think the CR9 or 717 would be great equipment to bring there, but not for quite a few years.

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-29 20:41:49 and read 4630 times.

I would love to see even a few CRJs to ATL or something along those lines. I hope that with the new faces in airport managment at ISP we will see some improvement. I'd be happy if WN even improved their service a bit. I mean, it was supposed to be a MX base and they just abandoned it. They own 8 gates that they use about 40-50% of at peak times.

I would love to see UA come in with 1 or 2 daily to ORD or maybe Dash's to IAD, but I doubt it. I did, however, hear that CLT flights from US Airways were on the horizon (I read that here, but it seemed like it was known by a few people and not just one). I think it could work with 1-2 daily CRJs.

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-12-29 22:02:49 and read 4489 times.

I don't know. I mean I spoke with the former commissioner about Delta going into ISP again. She said she was trying. I just thought I would toss it around on here to get some feedback. Yes, WN has completely shrunk ISP which is another reason why I think ISP would be viable for new entrants. Though I think if WN began ISP-ATL (fat chance I know) then DL would probably be back within a week like they did when FL started SWF-ATL. Though now with their new rule, they can't use the CRJ for ISP-ATL because it is over 750 miles.

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-29 22:08:25 and read 4478 times.

New rule?!?! What/when/why?! ...Ok, they can use the E175 :p Then a 717 in the future maybe. But I do agree with you that DL will try to kill of the route fast if WN starts up.

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-29 22:14:50 and read 4463 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 7):

I could see a daily CR7 service, probably not an E175 (though we can hope   ).

And I'm not sure if you're saying that the rule isn't new or you just haven't heard it, but just incase, DL has its own self-rule against running single-class aircraft on routes over 750 miles. Hope this helps .   

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-29 22:18:37 and read 4459 times.

Ok. The CR7/CR9s are all 2/3 class and could run it, right?

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-29 22:23:33 and read 4449 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 9):

Yup. They ran a CR7 daily to ATL from SWF before they cut it (presumeably because of FL's exiting the market).

According to great circle mapper, there is only an twelve-mile difference between ATL-ISP/SWF as the crow flies:

ATL-ISP%0D%0AATL-SWF&MS=wls&DU=mi" target="_blank">http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ATL-ISP%0D%0AATL-SWF&MS=wls&DU=mi

I'd think it would be fine, especially if they can run a CR9 from ATL-PVD like they used to.

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-29 22:26:01 and read 4447 times.

Cool. A CR7/9 or hopefully the E170/175 in the future would be fun. But first that WN plane needs to get back on the taxiway. Then we can talk of putting more planes in there.

Topic: DL And ISP History and Future?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-29 23:11:05 and read 4372 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 11):

LOL somebody posted that the plane flew out of ISP yesterday. I assume it went to BWI for further inspections?

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: bobnwa
Posted 2012-12-30 06:00:43 and read 3738 times.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
They have so many LGA slots that they don't know how to use them

What is the source of that little gem?

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-30 06:27:31 and read 3640 times.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 13):
What is the source of that little gem?

They're RJ schedule

And the pilots that I know that fly the RJs half empty between LGA and IAH and DFW

They are making they're name in NYC...but dont think for a second that a lot of that high frequency RJ stuff to major hubs of other carriers is making them any money

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: JBAirwaysFan
Posted 2012-12-30 09:04:10 and read 3119 times.

It just seem that DL is in the best position of any other carrier to reinstate ISP service. The fact that DL is making a name for the NYC area, to me, is even more of a reason to reinstate ISP since Long Island is so heavily populated and NYC airports do actually have a bad name, not to mention ISP is accessible to the city via the LIRR at Ronkonkoma. I believe there is regular shuttle service between LIMA and LIRR Ronkonkoma. DL would then pretty much have their bases covered in all of the Greater NY area (HPN, JFK, LGA, EWR, and then ISP).

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: RobertS975
Posted 2012-12-30 09:14:09 and read 3076 times.

Properly marketed and priced, there is certainly the population base on Long Island to support DL service to both ATL and DTW. DL would need to have at least two, preferably three daily flights in each market.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: canyonblue17
Posted 2012-12-30 09:54:04 and read 2955 times.

Just wondering....who will we see fly ISP-ATL first, WN or DL?

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-30 10:55:11 and read 2802 times.

Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 17):

I'd think DL, considering what WN has been doing at ATL.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: Flytravel
Posted 2012-12-30 14:43:14 and read 2342 times.

I'd think that if 6x daily LGA-ATL doesn't transition or work out well for WN, WN will offer ISP-ATL 1x or 2x daily just as a leisure route.

LGA-ATL on WN might be a tough challenge since WN is still pretty new or a small carrier on both the Atlanta and New York side, and DL will fare match. It's over 500 miles and there will be less connection flow than how FL operated the route.

WN might just wind up resuming LGA-BWI on a 3x daily basis permitting flows like LGA-BWI-ORF/CLT/ATL thus reasonable one stops between LGA and different southeast cities. Also those cities like GRR and FNT are only showing up with BWI service and not MDW.

WN could launch BNA-ATL instead, but it maybe too short (and driveable) just like BWI-LGA anyways.

[Edited 2012-12-30 14:44:43]

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-30 15:11:44 and read 2273 times.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 19):

While WN is relatively new at LGA and EWR, they are almost a household name on LI. Plus, they've been at ISP for a long time.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: gabrielz
Posted 2012-12-30 15:53:42 and read 2183 times.

The problem with ISP is that it's relatively near one of the world's largest and best-connected domestic and international airports that is a hub for two major carriers (DL, B6) -- one of which is a low cost carrier. It is also close to one of the nation's busiest small-ish airports (LGA) that -- despite delays -- is still very quick and easy from a user standpoint. This makes ISP an O&D only airport - like ONT, and if it weren't for Florida, it would be in similarly dire straits.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: catiii
Posted 2012-12-30 17:43:15 and read 1976 times.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 2):

No city is getting a DL 737MAX anytime soon. Not sure what you're talking about.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: Av8tor
Posted 2012-12-30 18:00:24 and read 1944 times.

B6 will enter ISP in 2013 and will dominate.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: mesaflyguy
Posted 2012-12-30 18:39:59 and read 1918 times.

Quoting Av8tor (Reply 23):

We can only pray at this point for that.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: UA787DEN
Posted 2012-12-30 19:38:36 and read 1917 times.

We can pray for B6/UA/DL/AA. But even if one does start service in the next few years, it will be a while before all the majors (excluding AS) serve it.

And as for the MAX-sorry, meant 739ER. Though I could see DL ordering the MAX substantially in the future when more current 737s/MDs get old.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: Art at ISP
Posted 2012-12-31 04:54:13 and read 1806 times.

Unfortunately I think those saying B6 will come to ISP this coming year are overly optimistic. There is no economic case for them to do so.

As with the other carriers, they will not want to draw traffic away from the JFK hub, and with their smallest aircraft being 100 seats, I don't think they can make money at ISP.

That said, since their only other "hub" is BOS really, where would they fly to? Florida is not profitable and being more than adequately served by WN. I think the idea of B6 at ISP was nothing more than a photo op for Schumer.

[Edited 2012-12-31 04:55:16]

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: tsnamm
Posted 2012-12-31 05:43:04 and read 1769 times.

Quoting ISP" class="quote" target="_blank">Art at ISP (Reply 26):
As with the other carriers, they will not want to draw traffic away from the JFK hub, and with their smallest aircraft being 100 seats, I don't think they can make money at ISP.



I don't think it has as much to do with drawing business from JFK or LGA for that matter, as it does with where would they fly to? B6 serves every other metro NYC airport ( JFK hub, LGA, EWR,SWF & HPN) with varying degrees of service, but generally outside of JFK especially at SWF & HPN they serve Florida exclusively. The problem is, WN at ISP is completely Florida centric, serving all the big vacation spots MCO,FLL etc. If B6 came to ISP where would they go? Competing with WN for Florida traffic would cause fares to plummet, resulting in a bloodbath where nobody would make money. So as much as I would like to B6 enter the ISP market, I don't see any destination for them to go to that isn't already served.

Topic: RE: DL And ISP History And Future?
Username: jfklganyc
Posted 2012-12-31 05:45:39 and read 1771 times.

I think B6 will end up at ISP eventually.

Their planes are too big for ISP-BOS..so I would expect to see ISP-FLL/PBI/MCO at some point


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