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Topic: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Max Q
Posted 2012-12-25 02:32:56 and read 10491 times.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Anyone know this ?

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: je89_w
Posted 2012-12-25 02:37:37 and read 10488 times.

Don't believe so. Their B742s stopped by in HNL.

Edit: stand corrected, please see below posts.

[Edited 2012-12-25 03:02:11]

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Kiwinlondon
Posted 2012-12-25 02:40:46 and read 10472 times.

If by classic you mean the 742. The answer is yes they did AKL -LAX. I have a feeling it might have been seasonal (depending on winds etc) although I am not sure that it had the ability to do LAX-AKL nonstop. My supposition is that it would have needed to make a tech stop westbound. Another Anetter might be able to shed some light on it.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Kiwinlondon

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: dcajet
Posted 2012-12-25 02:49:34 and read 10445 times.

Yes they did - I remember back when, in the mid to late 80s, they used to park at TBIT. Some of NZ services to LAX were also on the B762ER but those flights were the ones that stopped en route in HNL and Samoa, if memory serves

They started to be replaced by RR-powered 744 (and one GE-powered example ex VARIG) in the early 90s. The latter was not a stranger to LAX as it was deployed in her RG days on the GRU-LAX-NRT rotation. Soon thereafter they were gone from the NZ fleet. Some of them returned to LAX with their new employer, Virgin Atlantic.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Kiwinlondon
Posted 2012-12-25 02:53:37 and read 10428 times.

You are right about the 762 services. They operated via, APW/TBU/HNL/RAR/NAN and PPT via a variety of routes. IIRC at one point NZ had the most flights in and out of LAX for a foreign airline.

Kiwinlondon

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: NZ107
Posted 2012-12-25 03:33:13 and read 10310 times.

Quoting Kiwinlondon (Reply 2):
If by classic you mean the 742

Haha well NZ only ever owned the 742 and 744 and the 744 isn't considered a classic by definition..   Though it's heading towards that direction!

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Aeri28
Posted 2012-12-25 04:10:19 and read 10215 times.

I flew the 742 in 1997 from LAX to Nadi Fiji , the flight made a stop in Honolulu.
II had a friend flew from LAX to Rarotonga on the 742 in 1998 or 9, and it made a stop in Honolulu.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-25 04:16:55 and read 10186 times.

According to departelflights:

7/1/83 - AIR NEW ZEALAND - INTERNATIONAL - Departures from LAX
Aircraft Operated:
Boeing 747-100/200
Destinations Served:
Honolulu *, London Gatwick, Papeete

* (Honolulu unpublished enroute stop.)

AIR NEW ZEALAND (INTERNATIONAL) - Departures from AKL
Aircraft Operated:
Boeing 737-200, Boeing 747-100/200
Destinations Served:
Brisbane (QLD), Honolulu (HI), Malbourne (VIC), Nadi (Fiji), Norfolk Island (Pacific Ocean),
Noumea (New Caledonia), Papeete (French Polynesia), Perth (WA), Rarotonga (Cook Island),
Singapore (Singapore), Sydney (NSW), Tongatapu (Tonga Island)

10/1/96 -AIR NEW ZEALAND - Departures from LAX
Aircraft Operated:
Boeing 747-200, Boeing 747-400, Boeing 767-200
Destinations Served:
Auckland (New Zealand), Frankfurt (Germany), Honolulu (HI), London Heathrow (England),
Papeete (French Polynesia), Sydney (Australia)

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: jfk777
Posted 2012-12-25 09:00:36 and read 9754 times.

ANZ did fly their 747-200 nonstop to LAX which was the point of getting them. ANZ had been flying DC-10-30 to LAX via HNL, the Jumbo was not only bigger but could fly longer. Its about 6,500 miles from AKL to Los Angeles. In the mid 1980's when ANZ goot them, 6,500 miles was about as far as planes flew except for the 747SP. The 742 also allowed ANZ to start flights to LGW with one -stop over LAX which continues until today.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Roseflyer
Posted 2012-12-25 09:42:49 and read 9656 times.

I remember flying their advertised nonstop LAX-AKL on the 742, but it made an unadvertised fuel stop in HNL. After that I remember switching my personal preference to UA SEA-HNL-AKL since the unscheduled stop in the middle of the night was very unpleasant flying SEA-LAX-HNL-AKL.

Nonstop to New Zealand was a big marketing point from LAX. Pan Am operated the 747SP, which I think was the first nonstop service from LAX.

[Edited 2012-12-25 10:29:01]

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: wedgetail737
Posted 2012-12-25 11:20:21 and read 9467 times.

Air New Zealand's code used to be "TE." I believe TE flights 1 and 2 were nonstops LAX-AKL. I flew on NZ back in the classic days to points downunder (1989). I flew LAX-HNL-NAN on a 742 (upper deck); NAN-AKL on a 742 (upper deck); CHC-SYD on a 762; BNE-AKL on a 762; AKL-PPT on a 742; and PPT-LAX on a 742.

NZ is a wonderful airline!

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Unclekoru
Posted 2012-12-25 12:04:34 and read 9388 times.

Quoting Max Q (Thread starter):
Merry Christmas everyone.

Anyone know this ?

Yes, they did. Air NZ introduced a one stop flight from New Zealand to London with the 747-200's in 1987 or 1988 (can't remember for sure) via LA. The return LAX-AKL leg could be tight range wise, requiring the approval of WLG as an emergency alternate for 747's before the route could commence.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: alangirvan
Posted 2012-12-25 12:41:55 and read 9315 times.

I think they started doing Akl-lax as a non stop earlier than 87 almost as soon as they had started flying to London which was 82. hey, 30 years to London this year.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: intermodal64
Posted 2012-12-25 12:44:56 and read 9308 times.

I flew on a TE 747-200 non-stop from AKL to LAX in November of 1986. The flight had many open seats -- I had a triple set of seats all to myself. Flight arrived LAX early afternoon, just missing connecting opportunities to the East Coast. I had to wait about 6 hours for the red eyes to continue east.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: rwy04lga
Posted 2012-12-25 13:10:24 and read 9237 times.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 3):
B762ER but those flights were the ones that stopped en route in HNL and Samoa
Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 6):
I flew the 742 in 1997 from LAX to Nadi Fiji , the flight made a stop in Honolulu.

I did it the other direction. In March/April 1986 my wife and I went to Australia, Fiji, and New Zealand on an ANZ 742 routing LAX-HNL-AKL & SYD-AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX. AKL-CHC ANZ 732. Across the Tasman, CHC-MEL on ANZ 762(ZK-NBA). MEL-SYD Ansett 727. My carryon was a Celestron C-8 SCT telescope. It was Halley's Comet time.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: pa747sp
Posted 2012-12-25 14:14:41 and read 8791 times.

Yes, they did indeed operate both the AKL - LAX and LAX - AKL with the 742. It had severe weight penalties, so didn't uplift a lot of cargo, and sometimes had to make tech stop enroute in both directions. It also required the use of WLG as an alternate, which was problematic as one day they did have to divert there. Because of the very short runway, to get the a/c out, that had to completely strip the cabin to make the a/c light enough to rotate in the short runway space.
From Air NZ's point of view, there were two reasons why they put up with reduced cargo loads on the AKL - LAX sector to make the 'one-stop London' service: 1) they actually got more yeild on the LAX-LGW route (which they had full fifth freedom rights), 2) they were competing with other carriers who could offer two stops to London so the one stop via LAX was the fastest route to London.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: flylku
Posted 2012-12-25 15:17:47 and read 8247 times.

My father told me that to get extra range out of the early 747s, Northwest removed the thrust reversers (perhaps outboard only?) Anyone else hear of this and if true, might NZ have done rhe same?

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: gasman
Posted 2012-12-25 16:33:32 and read 7739 times.

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 15):
Yes, they did indeed operate both the AKL - LAX and LAX - AKL with the 742. It had severe weight penalties, so didn't uplift a lot of cargo, and sometimes had to make tech stop enroute in both directions.

I flew the route - in both directions - about five times on a 742. The last time was in 1997; and I remember a bizarre situation when the captain requested everyone remain seated until 10 minutes after takeoff because of 'balance' issues. Then ten minutes later, still prior to takeoff, he came back and requested that we remain seated until we'd reached cruise altitude. The flight proceeded normally.

I wish NZ had chosen the 748i. It always seemed to me that the AKL-LAX route certainly had the loadings to justify it. 13 hours LAX-AKL is a long time sit in a 10 abreast 77W in Y.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: CWL50
Posted 2012-12-25 16:36:55 and read 7714 times.

Well I flew LAX-AKL non stop on a B742 January 93, flew to LAX outward December 92 on a 744

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: ZKEOJ
Posted 2012-12-25 17:21:11 and read 7425 times.

Just like others, I also did LAX-AKL non-stop:

14 JUN 97 FRA-LAX NZ 019 B744
14 JUN 97 LAX-AKL NZ 019 B742

That was the only time I ever had to change the aircraft on the FRA-LAX-AKL (or reverse) run. It used to be the same aircraft going all the way through.

Merry Xmas
micha

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: ZKSUJ
Posted 2012-12-25 17:58:34 and read 7212 times.

Quoting gasman (Reply 17):
I wish NZ had chosen the 748i. It always seemed to me that the AKL-LAX route certainly had the loadings to justify it

Funny you say that, I agree with you and a number of other staff members have said the same thing (Not at CEO level though obviously)

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-12-25 22:50:46 and read 5946 times.

Quoting gasman (Reply 17):
I wish NZ had chosen the 748i. It always seemed to me that the AKL-LAX route certainly had the loadings to justify it.

+1

Why couldn't they operate a 748i across the Pacific and vary the LAX-LHR between the 789/77E and 748i according to seasonal demand?

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: gasman
Posted 2012-12-25 23:15:31 and read 5867 times.

What they did, of course, was downgrade the hard product by putting a high density config in the 77W, which made the 748i seem less economical on paper.

However, NZ will not have a monopoly between New Zealand and mainland USA forever. Operating the 748i was one thing that could've set them apart.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: ZKSUJ
Posted 2012-12-26 00:43:28 and read 5544 times.

Quoting gasman (Reply 22):
What they did, of course, was downgrade the hard product by putting a high density config in the 77W, which made the 748i seem less economical on paper.

Knowing NZ they will probably get the plane, but last off the production line like so many other types   I think NZ1/2 and SFO could support the 748i, that would be 6 frames but instead they tried making the 77W a 747 by having 10 abreast

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: CometOrbit
Posted 2012-12-26 01:42:12 and read 5263 times.

I flew LGW-LAX-AKL with NZ (TE1) in 1985, calling in at PPT westbound and non-stop across the Pacific eastbound.
At PPT in the small hours were three 742s - NZ, QF and UT, all having come from LAX on the same routeing at similar times.
It was fun with three planeloads of transit passengers milling about the open air terminal, with every now and again the strains of a Polynesian serenade striking up for the Tahiti arrivals.
More fun than the non-stop flight, in fact.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Unclekoru
Posted 2012-12-26 23:16:26 and read 4685 times.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 12):
I think they started doing Akl-lax as a non stop earlier than 87 almost as soon as they had started flying to London which was 82. hey, 30 years to London this year.

I think you are correct, kind of! AKL to LAX started somewhat earlier than 87/88, but the one stop service only operated North bound. The South bound service started later, I'm fairly sure it was sometime in '87.

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 15):
Yes, they did indeed operate both the AKL - LAX and LAX - AKL with the 742. It had severe weight penalties, so didn't uplift a lot of cargo, and sometimes had to make tech stop enroute in both directions. It also required the use of WLG as an alternate, which was problematic as one day they did have to divert there. Because of the very short runway, to get the a/c out, that had to completely strip the cabin to make the a/c light enough to rotate in the short runway space.

The runway at Wellington was long enough for Air NZ's 742's to depart with pax after a divert if need be. The only occasion it happened was with a MEL-AKL flight that ended up in WLG. The aircraft left again the following morning with everyone still on board.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: koruman
Posted 2012-12-26 23:44:04 and read 4689 times.

In 1981 I flew on TE1 and TE4, but they were DC-10 services.

TE1 routed LAX-PPT-RAR-AKL. I'd never actually heard of Rarotonga until I arrived there in transit as a 12 year old, and bought a Tangaroa statue where if you slid its head upwards..........

I've loved the Cooks ever since.

TE4 routed AKL-NAN-HNL-LAX.

By 1993, I was flying non-stop across the Pacific on 742s, but I seem to remember stops at HNL to refuel at times northbound.

The last 747 service I remember stopping in the Pacific on a long-haul flight was on a Frankfurt flight, which stopped at Nadi in both directions, around 2000 or 2001.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: ZK-NBT
Posted 2012-12-28 00:35:59 and read 4277 times.

NZ certainly operated the 742 non stop AKL-LAX. One of the last 742 routes I'm pretty sure was NZ5/6 which only operated 2-3 weekly in 1999 when the last 742 retired. Pretty sure they also operated to FRA until around March 1999 aswell with 1 service AKL-LAX-FRA and the other AKL-HNL-LAX-FRA.

Quoting koruman (Reply 26):
The last 747 service I remember stopping in the Pacific on a long-haul flight was on a Frankfurt flight, which stopped at Nadi in both directions, around 2000 or 2001.

The last year or so FRA operated was a 744 AKL-NAN-LAX-FRA it was dropped in March 2001.

Quoting pa747sp (Reply 15):
Yes, they did indeed operate both the AKL - LAX and LAX - AKL with the 742. It had severe weight penalties, so didn't uplift a lot of cargo, and sometimes had to make tech stop enroute in both directions. It also required the use of WLG as an alternate, which was problematic as one day they did have to divert there. Because of the very short runway, to get the a/c out, that had to completely strip the cabin to make the a/c light enough to rotate in the short runway space.

You are probably thinking of the UA 741 in the late 1980s that diverted to WLG due bad weather in AKL, I believe they weren't sure they had enough fuel to make CHC either that or CHC weather was marginal aswell.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: AirGabon
Posted 2012-12-28 02:20:57 and read 4094 times.

Quoting CometOrbit (Reply 24):
It was fun with three planeloads of transit passengers milling about the open air terminal, with every now and again the strains of a Polynesian serenade striking up for the Tahiti arrivals.
More fun than the non-stop flight, in fact.

I 100% agree. I miss those good old days in PPT, with NZ 742, QF 742, HA D10, UTA D10/743, Corsair 74L, AOM D10 etc. at night or in the early morning: crowded terminal and apron, tropical weather, vacations athmosphere.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: ZKEOJ
Posted 2012-12-28 19:19:13 and read 3802 times.

Quoting koruman (Reply 26):
The last 747 service I remember stopping in the Pacific on a long-haul flight was on a Frankfurt flight, which stopped at Nadi in both directions, around 2000 or 2001.
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 27):
Pretty sure they also operated to FRA until around March 1999 aswell with 1 service AKL-LAX-FRA and the other AKL-HNL-LAX-FRA.
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 27):
The last year or so FRA operated was a 744 AKL-NAN-LAX-FRA it was dropped in March 2001.

Already in 1995, I flew FRA-LAX-AKL on B744 (ZK-NBS; NZ 019), same in 1996 and then in 1997 was the first time I experienced that NZ 019 was not operated by the same aircraft: B744 on the AKL-LAX leg, and B742 on the LAX-AKL leg. However, I never stopped in NAN on the FRA-AKL trips. Maybe it was an laternating route by weekdays? IIRC, FRA was served 5 days a week.

Cheers
micha

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: ZK-NBT
Posted 2012-12-29 01:19:35 and read 3662 times.

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 29):
Already in 1995, I flew FRA-LAX-AKL on B744 (ZK-NBS; NZ 019), same in 1996 and then in 1997 was the first time I experienced that NZ 019 was not operated by the same aircraft: B744 on the AKL-LAX leg, and B742 on the LAX-AKL leg.

I wasn't aware they changed aircraft in LAX, i'm guessing they did some days or just from time to time due maintanence?

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 29):
However, I never stopped in NAN on the FRA-AKL trips. Maybe it was an laternating route by weekdays? IIRC, FRA was served 5 days a week.

FRA was never more than 3x weekly. I remember probably 1996/97 they operated
AKL-LAX-FRA 3x weekly
AKL-LAX-LHR 5x weekly
mix of 742 and 744.

At some stage later than that I remember FRA being via HNL/LAX or NAN-LAX. I think FRA was suspended during NS 1999 even after the 742s retired? It was reinstated ops AKL-NAN-LAX-FRA 2 weekly with 744 between OCT 99 March 2001.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-12-30 04:51:14 and read 3316 times.

NZ always flew their 747 classics via HNL to LAX the 741 and 742 did not have the range to fly direct AKL/LAX. Like QF HNL was dropped once the 744s came on line and in the case of QF HNL was dropped when the got the 743 I think.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Zkpilot
Posted 2012-12-30 06:31:44 and read 3225 times.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 31):
NZ always flew their 747 classics via HNL to LAX the 741 and 742 did not have the range to fly direct AKL/LAX. Like QF HNL was dropped once the 744s came on line and in the case of QF HNL was dropped when the got the 743 I think.

Incorrect. I flew direct on an NZ (TE code at the time) 742 from AKL to LAX in 1987.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: timz
Posted 2012-12-30 13:32:02 and read 3047 times.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 31):
NZ always flew their 747 classics via HNL to LAX the 741 and 742 did not have the range to fly direct AKL/LAX.

If you look at a late-1980s? timetable you'll see they did claim to fly nonstop AKL-LAX before they got 744s.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: DavidByrne
Posted 2012-12-30 16:02:10 and read 2955 times.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 30):
FRA was never more than 3x weekly. I remember probably 1996/97 they operated

Actually FRA was four-weekly at one point, with the fourth flight being shared with LHR - it flew AKL-LAX-FRA-LHR-LAX-AKL, That was shortly before the end of FRA services.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-12-30 19:06:45 and read 2844 times.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 32):
Incorrect. I flew direct on an NZ (TE code at the time) 742 from AKL to LAX in 1987.


Ok there you go I do stand to be corrected I flew NZ in 1982 and it went SYD/AKL/HNL/LAX, then on the way back home LAX/HNL/AKL/SYD.  

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-12-30 19:15:43 and read 2828 times.

Quoting timz (Reply 33):
If you look at a late-1980s? timetable you'll see they did claim to fly nonstop AKL-LAX before they got 744s.

Yeah I will have a look at that, but as I said before I did the NZ flight back in Christmas 1982/83 and that was TAA on an A300 from MEL/SYD then Air New Zealand 742 from SYD/AKL/HNL/LAX I remember doing customs in HNL before the last part of the flight, a 5 hour long haul to LAX and that part seem to be the longest of the whole flight.

Topic: RE: DId Air NZ Fly Their 747 Classic Non Stop AKL-LAX
Username: Flyingsottsman
Posted 2012-12-30 19:18:13 and read 2817 times.

Happy and safe new year to everyone, hope you all enjoy and stay safe.  


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