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Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2012-12-24 16:21:53 and read 21901 times.

Yesterday EIA parked all of its 747-200, that is 3 of them, there is still one parked at JFK in a non flyable condition.

Citing high operational cost and the Dept of Defense now no longer accepting 200 on any of their bases it was time to to retire them.

Critical financial issues at EIA also led to the decision to park them'

Sent to KPSM were N471EV, N482EV, N486EV. N485EV is at JFK and has been used as a spare parts plane for several months.

Now they have just three active 400's 491,492,493. They also have N479BA in Marana which was suppose to be flying 2 weeks ago.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: KC135Hydraulics
Posted 2012-12-24 16:24:46 and read 21907 times.

Why is the DoD no longer accepting the -200 on their bases? Is there some sort of safety concern?

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2012-12-24 16:30:07 and read 21885 times.

KC.... High fuel cost. They were the one paying for the fuel. Other cargo company's that flew 200 for the DoD also had to stop.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2012-12-24 18:19:22 and read 21608 times.

Things aren't looking too good at Evergreen. They have been late with pilot payroll the last four pay periods and are not relying on AMC to keep them alive. Their AMC team might not be too happy about sharing the cargo with them to keep them afloat.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: jcarv
Posted 2012-12-24 18:31:26 and read 21550 times.

Not for nothing but why would they not store their aircraft at the Evergreen facility at Marana?

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2012-12-24 20:29:00 and read 21277 times.

Quoting jcarv (Reply 4):
Not for nothing but why would they not store their aircraft at the Evergreen facility at Marana?

Evergreen has a decent sized base at JFK.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: Spacepope
Posted 2012-12-24 20:29:50 and read 21275 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 2):

KC.... High fuel cost. They were the one paying for the fuel. Other cargo company's that flew 200 for the DoD also had to stop.

That's strange. Kalitta has a -200 en route to Lajes AFB right now.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-24 20:53:26 and read 21185 times.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 6):

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 2):

KC.... High fuel cost. They were the one paying for the fuel. Other cargo company's that flew 200 for the DoD also had to stop.

That's strange. Kalitta has a -200 en route to Lajes AFB right now.

There are exemptions for certain types of missions. If there is no other lift available, or and equipment substitution (where the carrier picks up the tab for the extra fuel burn), AMC will issue a waiver.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2012-12-24 21:28:17 and read 21115 times.

Evergreen got some final missions for them last week with UPS.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2012-12-24 21:30:40 and read 21103 times.

Actually, DOD doesn't pay for fuel. It pays per ton-mile for cargo based on aircraft type (with a broad brush). It factors into the rate a number of factors, such as labor, capital cost, and, certainly, fuel. It may be that all aircraft in the category with the 742 are persona non grata. And it's not that they aren't welcome on the base. It's that they are not used for missions.

AMC pays a fuel adjustment based on the price of fuel, having calculated its rate based on the expected price of fuel.

[Edited 2012-12-24 21:31:23]

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2012-12-24 21:44:10 and read 21068 times.

Oh, and in terms of "not allowing the 747-200 on its bases", I would just have to point out that, um, the VC-25 is a 747-200 supported by the AMC.

I'm pretty sure it's allowed to land at Air Force bases.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: aaway
Posted 2012-12-24 23:11:30 and read 20900 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 3):
Things aren't looking too good at Evergreen. They have been late with pilot payroll the last four pay periods and are not relying on AMC to keep them alive. Their AMC team might not be too happy about sharing the cargo with them to keep them afloat.

Slightly off topic response - Appears the enterprise is succumbing to financial malaise. The ground handling division - E.A.G.L.E.- also has had several payroll issues over the past six months. The helicopter division has been dangled as a salve but, unfortunately, no takers thus far.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: bottie
Posted 2012-12-25 00:00:46 and read 20804 times.

Quoting jcarv (Reply 4):

Evergreen sold their maintainance center at MZJ about 2 years ago

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2012-12-25 01:04:16 and read 20499 times.

Quoting aaway (Reply 11):
The ground handling division - E.A.G.L.E.- also has had several payroll issues over the past six months.

I used to work for EAGLE and the had payroll issues constantly when I worked for them in JFK in 2004. The also quickly lost the BA contract too.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-25 02:17:00 and read 20014 times.

Oddly MMV has plenty of room for aircraft storage and many could be added to their aviation museum to draw even more visitors, other than the damp Oregon winters, why wouldn't EZ park someplace they own? Heck even the incredibly nice indoor water park built, owned and operated by Evergreen at MMV has a real 742 as the launch base for the waterslide all the way down.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: upcfordcruiser
Posted 2012-12-25 04:24:13 and read 19313 times.

Wonder if this means they'll come get their 747-200 that's been 'abandoned' at the KIAH cargo ramp for some time now.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: sunilgupta
Posted 2012-12-25 05:29:01 and read 18872 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
Oh, and in terms of "not allowing the 747-200 on its bases", I would just have to point out that, um, the VC-25 is a 747-200 supported by the AMC.

The VC-25 are special purpose military aircraft so cost is no object to begin with.

Second, they are the only -200s fitted with four GE CF-6-80 engines which are far more current and in widespread use as compared to the JT9D engines on the Evergreen 747-200s

Sunil

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: madviking
Posted 2012-12-25 06:16:11 and read 18544 times.

Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 16):
Second, they are the only -200s fitted with four GE CF-6-80 engines which are far more current and in widespread use as compared to the JT9D engines on the Evergreen 747-200s

I saw the ship sitting at JFK last week. It is missing engine #1. Sad.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: treebeard787
Posted 2012-12-25 08:06:48 and read 17751 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 8):
Evergreen got some final missions for them last week with UPS.

We got N486EV here at PHX almost every day up to the 22nd operating as extra lift for UPS, I knew they didn't have a lot of time left but I didn't think they would be retired that fast.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8075/8298577998_3f37dd92d1_c.jpg
Evergreen 747-200F N486EV by KoryC757, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8221/8295331431_bde8ee4c2b_c.jpg
Evergreen 747-200F and Emriates Skycargo 747-400F at PHX, N486EV, N415MC by KoryC757, on Flickr

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2012-12-25 10:15:48 and read 16797 times.

This is not the end of the the classics yet, nor Evergreen. The classics are indeed being drawn down domestically for the time being. However, there is a chance they will be sent overseas and will exclusively fly there, starting next year some time, for the government.

As for Evergreen's finances, they are in a pretty decent shape. They definitely won't be going anywhere anytime soon, especially since management was shuffled.

Next year they will introduce another 3-4 747-400BCFs as well which will in the long run replace the classics permanently.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2012-12-25 10:52:14 and read 16512 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):

If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: KC135Hydraulics
Posted 2012-12-25 11:30:51 and read 16203 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 20):
If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.

To me, when you don't have enough money to make payroll, your company is effectively dead.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: qantas744er
Posted 2012-12-25 11:39:50 and read 16152 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):

This is not the end of the the classics yet, nor Evergreen. The classics are indeed being drawn down domestically for the time being. However, there is a chance they will be sent overseas and will exclusively fly there, starting next year some time, for the government.

As for Evergreen's finances, they are in a pretty decent shape. They definitely won't be going anywhere anytime soon, especially since management was shuffled.

Next year they will introduce another 3-4 747-400BCFs as well which will in the long run replace the classics permanently.

In your dreams!

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):
If they are in "pretty decent shape" then why have they missed numerous payroll dates for the pilots? The one on the first will be the 5th in a row if they miss it.

  

Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 21):
To me, when you don't have enough money to make payroll, your company is effectively dead.

  



Del Smith (evergreen founder and owner) is rumored to have had to tap in to his personal funds just to cover the operational costs for December.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2012-12-25 14:48:38 and read 14845 times.

Are you saying that they are 5 payrolls behind, or that they missed the date and later made a payment?

There's a difference between profitability and cash flow, particularly when you are being paid by Uncle Sam. You are not getting a check from the government at the end of the flight -- you're being paid down the line. Sometimes, you need operating cash to keep things rolling.

I'm pretty sure that this UPS work required a significant expenditure for fuel and personnel. And yet I'm sure UPS didn't give Evergreen a check on the 23rd.

Oddly enough, it's often in periods of high-profitability expansion that companies get in a cash crunch, because they have to pay today for things that they won't be paid for for 90-120 days.

Not saying that this is the case for Evergreen, but if Smith is tapping his personal funds, he's certainly expecting to be repaid.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: wjcandee
Posted 2012-12-25 14:51:00 and read 14832 times.

Speaking of which, I didn't see World doing any ad hoc work for UPS or FedEx this year. Are they near death, or did the downsizing help stabilize them?

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-25 14:59:38 and read 15401 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
Heck even the incredibly nice indoor water park built, owned and operated by Evergreen at MMV has a real 742 as the launch base for the waterslide all the way down.

An ex-DL 747-200  

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: TVNWZ
Posted 2012-12-25 15:02:04 and read 15386 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 23):

A company the size of Evergreen would (should) have a sizable line of credit/revolving credit agreement(s) to make operating payroll and expenses. If they don't or are tapped out on them, that in itself, is a reason to believe the company is having financial issues. Payroll being late is a sure fire sign.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: sxf24
Posted 2012-12-25 17:52:49 and read 14983 times.

Evergreen currently has the lowest rating from S&P and recent comments from the ratings agency does not sound very positve.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/06/idUSWNA898920121106

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2012-12-25 19:40:20 and read 14813 times.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 24):
Speaking of which, I didn't see World doing any ad hoc work for UPS or FedEx this year. Are they near death, or did the downsizing help stabilize them?

World was slated to fly for UPS but had to back out due to being down an aircraft for a month and a half.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 23):
Are you saying that they are 5 payrolls behind, or that they missed the date and later made a payment?

The have been late, but made the payments. The payroll for the 14th wasn't going to come until the 24th from what has been said on other websites.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: Flighty
Posted 2012-12-25 20:53:42 and read 14677 times.

For the longest time I thought this was regarding EVA out of Taiwan. They are a prosperous looking operation, so this was quite shocking. Carry on.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2012-12-25 23:39:48 and read 14532 times.

Did you ever think where all the money came from to fund the two museums, the waterpark, the helicopter ops, and everything else they have?

From my Limited understanding of it from someone else who is familiar with the subject, there were multiple issues behind the scenes which is causing the airline to "lose" money. Such as aircraft, which are not owned by the airline itself, being leased for absurdly high rates; which were higher than what -400 based frames could be acquired for by multiple factors.

However, with the change in management that came a while ago, the leases of the classics were no longer going to be tolerated and the -400s began coming online to replace them.

Now as of two weeks ago, from what I was told, they was still a possibility they could get another contract flying overseas with the classics for the military. This would allow the fleet to continue to operate, but ultimately, the classics are on their way out. Now this could have changed if a decision/ contract award was made since the first week of the month.

Again, they have four new BCFs on their way into the fleet this upcoming year. I don't think they would be bringing in new metal if they were on the verge of shutting down or these additions would put them into a situation where they couldn't cover the operating costs.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: Max Q
Posted 2012-12-26 00:12:07 and read 14463 times.

Quoting sunilgupta (Reply 16):

Second, they are the only -200s fitted with four GE CF-6-80 engines which are far more current and in widespread use as compared to the JT9D engines on the Evergreen 747-200s

Not true, the last few classics off the production line (200's and 300's) had the CF6-80 fitted in addition to some other -400 mods like the improved wing to body fairing.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: RWA380
Posted 2012-12-26 06:02:24 and read 14120 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 25):
An ex-DL 747-200

Sweet, I flew on a DL 742 when I was a kid, not sure which ship, but I know there were not that many, so I will always wonder if that was the one we flew on, when I look up at it again. I also got to fly EZ as a passenger once, it was Aug 1980, and although not the best, it was a real cool experience & the only DC-8 I've flown to Hawaii, routing PDX-OGG-PDX

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: hammer
Posted 2012-12-26 06:12:13 and read 14099 times.

This is concerning the Kalitta -200 into Lajes. They were carrying an engine for a Delta A/C.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: TVNWZ
Posted 2012-12-26 06:38:27 and read 14007 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 30):
Again, they have four new BCFs on their way into the fleet this upcoming year. I don't think they would be bringing in new metal if they were on the verge of shutting down or these additions would put them into a situation where they couldn't cover the operating costs.

Companies do that all the time. They anticipate new arrivals. It does not mean they will actually arrive. And, I would venture, being 10 days late with payroll, I don't know how they could actually accomplish that.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: Spacepope
Posted 2012-12-26 06:47:17 and read 13962 times.

Quoting hammer (Reply 33):

This is concerning the Kalitta -200 into Lajes. They were carrying an engine for a Delta A/C.

Thanks for the update. Makes sense now, since most Lajes flights for the DoD originate at BWI, not ATL.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: Newark727
Posted 2012-12-26 08:15:28 and read 13845 times.

Is that so? Shame, I know there was an Evergreen 747-200 in and out of Ontario for UPS just a day or two after I paid the place a visit. I should have gone up to see it, then.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-26 08:38:53 and read 13759 times.

It is interesting how a drop in military lift needs are killing off a less economical type. Not surprising really...

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):

This is not the end of the the classics yet,

Incorrect. As they come up on heavy maintenance, they are being retired globally. Fuel is just too pricey to make money with a 742. Better to fly an MD-11, 777F, or if the volume is needed 744F/748F. Heck, even 744BCFs are being retired. The weak cargo market and high fuel prices are shifting the market quickly.

Look at how many 742Fs are stored! It isn't until page 7 one finds a non-stored, non-Iranian 742F 'active.'

http://www.airfleets.net/listing/b747-3.htm

By the time there is an uptick, there will be too many A330s and 772s ready for conversion to bother re-activing the type unless fuel prices plummet. We can say the end of the 742 is near.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 30):
Again, they have four new BCFs on their way into the fleet this upcoming year.

Then that ends the 742s... Its all about fuel burn.

Lightsaber

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2012-12-26 10:47:56 and read 13516 times.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 34):

Three of the four will be in fleet within the first six months of the year, January, February, April/May with the fourth coming around October, IIRC.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 37):

I said that the BCFs are replacing them, but the fleet is not permanently retired YET. They could possibly still be sent overseas IF they get a contract they were going after. If they do get the contract, they will be operating two specific routes for the military USING classics for the time being. However, it is a fact that they are retired for domestic use within the US, which is why they are currently parked. If they do not get the contract, then they are indeed completely done within the airline.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-26 17:22:07 and read 13123 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 28):
World was slated to fly for UPS but had to back out due to being down an aircraft for a month and a half.

What happened to the World Aircraft?

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-26 17:47:54 and read 13172 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 32):
Sweet, I flew on a DL 742 when I was a kid, not sure which ship, but I know there were not that many, so I will always wonder if that was the one we flew on, when I look up at it again.

Well, there were only 5 in DL's fleet......


Here's 481EV, now the Waterpark


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang




Here it is, in DL service, as ship #101/N9896



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bob Garrard

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: aaway
Posted 2012-12-26 18:30:23 and read 13070 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 19):
As for Evergreen's finances, they are in a pretty decent shape. They definitely won't be going anywhere anytime soon, especially since management was shuffled.
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 23):
There's a difference between profitability and cash flow, particularly when you are being paid by Uncle Sam. You are not getting a check from the government at the end of the flight -- you're being paid down the line. Sometimes, you need operating cash to keep things rolling.

I'm pretty sure that this UPS work required a significant expenditure for fuel and personnel. And yet I'm sure UPS didn't give Evergreen a check on the 23rd.

Oddly enough, it's often in periods of high-profitability expansion that companies get in a cash crunch, because they have to pay today for things that they won't be paid for for 90-120 days.

Without divulging too much, Evergreen is in funds conservation mode. A couple of the initiatives I've observed are surprising considering the functions sacrificed are basic (read: often taken for granted) to any airline and/or ground handling operation. Another initiative recently implemented (repairing ground service equipment, then selling said G.S.E.) smacks of a company circling the wagons.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Thread starter):
Citing high operational cost and the Dept of Defense now no longer accepting 200 on any of their bases it was time to to retire them.

Critical financial issues at EIA also led to the decision to park them'

My understanding is that the DoD requirement to upgrade from -200s to -400s is what led to the financial issue(s). IOW, EV's hand was forced in order to remain in contention for DoD contracts.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-26 20:34:03 and read 12890 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 40):

BTW, while I was finding those pics on the database, I noticed that Evergreen's "Supertanker" was an ex-DL 747-100, also.....DL ship #103, N9898, MSN 19898.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: United1
Posted 2012-12-26 20:43:34 and read 12865 times.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 32):

Quoting mayor (Reply 25):
An ex-DL 747-200

Sweet, I flew on a DL 742 when I was a kid, not sure which ship, but I know there were not that many, so I will always wonder if that was the one we flew on, when I look up at it again.

... actually it's one of the 5 -100 series aircraft that DL flew for a few years back in the late 60's early 70's. DL never flew/owned any -200's of their own...outside of the -200's that NW had.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-27 08:17:51 and read 12518 times.

Quoting United1 (Reply 43):
... actually it's one of the 5 -100 series aircraft that DL flew for a few years back in the late 60's early 70's. DL never flew/owned any -200's of their own...outside of the -200's that NW had.

My mistake.......never was really sure if they were -100s or -200s.

They took delivery in '70 and the last one left the property in '77.

[Edited 2012-12-27 08:19:40]

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: A388
Posted 2012-12-27 10:25:45 and read 12417 times.

Am I glad I photographed their 742's not so long ago:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography




Cheers,

A388

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: lightsaber
Posted 2012-12-27 20:19:58 and read 12085 times.

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 38):
They could possibly still be sent overseas IF they get a contract they were going after.

Fair enough. But who else is going after the contract? I would just like to know their chances.


Lightsaber

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-27 20:31:23 and read 12051 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46):
Fair enough. But who else is going after the contract? I would just like to know their chances.

Maybe Omni and World?

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2012-12-27 20:45:14 and read 12050 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 47):
Maybe Omni and World?

Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: FI642
Posted 2012-12-27 20:46:57 and read 12049 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 48):

Quoting mayor (Reply 47):
Maybe Omni and World?

Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere.

They are working one one. Oh boy are they. Beware!!

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2012-12-27 20:53:38 and read 12021 times.

Quoting FI642 (Reply 49):
They are working one one. Oh boy are they. Beware!!

So I've heard. Luckily AMC won't take the 767 and there is no conversion program for the 777.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-27 21:42:07 and read 11965 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 48):
Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere.

Doesn't an AMC contract include moving pax for the DOD? Or were those GIs riding in the back of the Omni DC-10s that my son-in-law was flying, just in disguise?  

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: Aaron747
Posted 2012-12-27 21:59:28 and read 11970 times.

If Evergeen is truly in a crunch it will be a shame to see the regular visits of their classics come to an end here in Nagoya. Their birds have been regular visitors to NGO for the last few years, and always get the observers on Skydeck in an excited frenzy as both departures and arrivals have a tendency to use just about the entirety of rwy 18/36.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Propfreak
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kinmei

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: KC135Hydraulics
Posted 2012-12-27 22:11:41 and read 11939 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 50):
So I've heard. Luckily AMC won't take the 767 and there is no conversion program for the 777.

Are you sure about that? I see an awful lot of North American 767s at my base moving personnel!

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: flightsimer
Posted 2012-12-27 22:51:01 and read 11890 times.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 46):

I do not know who all is, but it is for an Afghanistan "shuttle".

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2012-12-28 11:12:31 and read 11609 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 51):
Doesn't an AMC contract include moving pax for the DOD? Or were those GIs riding in the back of the Omni DC-10s that my son-in-law was flying, just in disguise?
Quoting KC135Hydraulics (Reply 53):
Are you sure about that? I see an awful lot of North American 767s at my base moving personnel!

You boys neglecting to read the post correctly? Did I not say "Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere."

Freighter being the operative word in this sentence. Omni doesn't own a DC-10, 777 or 767 freighter, although they are working on adding the 767 freighter which AMC won't use due to its contours.

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: mayor
Posted 2012-12-28 11:27:28 and read 11573 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 55):
You boys neglecting to read the post correctly? Did I not say "Omni doesn't have a freighter program. Atlas is the new juggernaut in the AMC business. They are everywhere."

Freighter being the operative word in this sentence. Omni doesn't own a DC-10, 777 or 767 freighter, although they are working on adding the 767 freighter which AMC won't use due to its contours.

It wasn't your post where I missed freighter......it was further up the line where I missed it. It should have been obvious to me in those posts, when they were referring to BCFs, 777Fs, etc., that it was a cargo contract they were talking about.




BTW, does anyone know if the Air Force still contracts with freight carriers within the CONUS in the LOGAIR program?

[Edited 2012-12-28 11:29:36]

Topic: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: ChrisNH
Posted 2012-12-29 16:16:34 and read 11116 times.

Another one came into Pease last night, so that makes four. A Southern Air 744 also came in; quick-thinking spotters could have taken a photo of five 747s on the tarmac there this morning...something not even Boston can boast.

The 744 left for Dover late this morning, but those Evergreen 747s aren't going anywhere in the imminent future.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2013-01-02 08:50:50 and read 10512 times.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out with Evergreen and the rest of the charter carriers. Ryan, World and Southern have all gone bankrupt recently. Omni and Atlas seem to be in a stable position. Not really sure how Kalitta is doing, but they always seem to make it.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: FI642
Posted 2013-01-02 18:11:52 and read 10168 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 58):
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out with Evergreen and the rest of the charter carriers. Ryan, World and Southern have all gone bankrupt recently. Omni and Atlas seem to be in a stable position. Not really sure how Kalitta is doing, but they always seem to make it.

Agreed, I specifically am interested in seeing how this all plays out!

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: aaway
Posted 2013-01-02 21:35:39 and read 10028 times.

Closure of LAX ground handling operation announced today, effective date 28Feb13. E.A.G.L.E. handles four carriers - LH, LX, MU and TN. Two of the four had notified E.A.G.L.E of their intent to change vendors. A third was "strongly rumored" to be changing. The fourth....merely rumored.

I believe the competing vendors smelled blood in the water and really put forth an effort to solicit EV's carriers.

Real good employees @ Evergreen - LAX. My thoughts are with them and I'm hoping they'll land in new positions quickly.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2013-01-03 00:18:40 and read 9911 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 58):
Not really sure how Kalitta is doing, but they always seem to make it.

CK has at least 2 747's parked next to building 81 at JFK for the past 2 weeks.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-01-03 00:48:14 and read 9895 times.

Last Friday night EIA had to send a crew that was ready to depart JFK to IAH when the crew was serve a Federal Court injunction to cease and desist operating an engine on a 744F due to back payments on one of its powerplants. The flight was being operated as an SV flight. SV canceled the remaining 5 days left on the contract ending a long term relationship.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: ZANL188
Posted 2013-01-03 02:05:09 and read 9745 times.

Quoting mayor (Reply 56):

LOGAIR & Quicktrans have been gone 20 years.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: KLASM83
Posted 2013-01-03 02:13:57 and read 9786 times.

Jeez, it seems Evergreen is dying a death of a thousand cuts. Loosing E.A.G.L.E stations, owing back payments on everything. I wish the best to the employees, because when EV goes under, it seems a lot of good people will be out of work.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: Bluewave 707
Posted 2013-01-03 12:21:51 and read 9435 times.

Southern Air has been operating out of HIK for sometime now ... they took over the EIA flights.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2013-01-03 12:53:16 and read 9396 times.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 62):
Last Friday night EIA had to send a crew that was ready to depart JFK to IAH when the crew was serve a Federal Court injunction to cease and desist operating an engine on a 744F due to back payments on one of its powerplants. The flight was being operated as an SV flight. SV canceled the remaining 5 days left on the contract ending a long term relationship.

Did they get the plane out of JFK or is it still at the hangar?

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: rsmith6621a
Posted 2013-01-03 16:18:02 and read 9240 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 66):
Did they get the plane out of JFK or is it still at the hangar?

I do not know....it was suppose to go to MCI for repaint back to EIA colors today. I doubt that is possible if the aircraft has only 3 horses on the wings.

Also the crew was sent back to the hotel,I was not clear in my post.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: cbphoto
Posted 2013-01-03 16:40:53 and read 9209 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 58):
Not really sure how Kalitta is doing, but they always seem to make it.

I had heard a rumor that Kalitta was going to park their 200s at the beginning of this year, but alas they are still operating them, so who knows what they are up too!

Could we be seeing the beginning of the end for major ACMI cargo ops in the US? Is this just a phase, or is this the new reality? Can the likes of World and Southern and Evergreen pull through, or will we be left with just Atlas for major cargo ops? Not trying to be dramatic, just a realistic question with all of the foreign wars winding down, contracts drying up and the lack of affordable 744F and BCFs

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: airtran737
Posted 2013-01-04 05:40:15 and read 8894 times.

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 68):
Could we be seeing the beginning of the end for major ACMI cargo ops in the US? Is this just a phase, or is this the new reality? Can the likes of World and Southern and Evergreen pull through, or will we be left with just Atlas for major cargo ops? Not trying to be dramatic, just a realistic question with all of the foreign wars winding down, contracts drying up and the lack of affordable 744F and BCFs

I think that the like of World and Southern will survive in the long term. World has worked hard to diversify their cargo customers and not rely solely on AMC, as has Southern. They are both in Chapter 11 trying to shed debt, rationalize their fleets, and come out with a good product at a decent price. 747BDSF's can be had for about $400,000 a month and as more 777-300ER's and A350-1000's come on the market, there will be more 747's available for conversion thus lowering the lease rates.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: Spacepope
Posted 2013-01-05 08:35:03 and read 8590 times.

Looks like Southern is retiring another 742 today, N783SA is on its way from JFK to MHV. 95500+ hours, 18500+ cycles.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...3/history/20130105/1200Z/KJFK/KMHV

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: na
Posted 2013-01-05 08:52:26 and read 8555 times.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 70):
Looks like Southern is retiring another 742 today, N783SA is on its way from JFK to MHV. 95500+ hours, 18500+ cycles.

That ex-Nippon Cargo plane did a lot of mid- and shorthaul work in its career then with the average flight time just over 5 hours. 95500 hours alone is not really much for a 25 year old 747.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: jetset
Posted 2013-01-06 09:43:41 and read 8141 times.

How much of that US DoD cargo that is transported on all those Volga AN124's could be moved on the B747-200's that are getting parked.
Funny if it's true that the DoD don't contract B747-200 anymore but the AN124 is fine.
I understand the AN124 can haul things the B747-200 can't but if this cargo was moved by C5 or C17 that would free up some lift the old B747-200 can do.
Seems unfair that US Freight companies are parking planes because of lack of demand but the US DoD continue to use the Volga, Polet, and Antonov companies.

Anyway just a thought
Jetset

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: cbphoto
Posted 2013-01-06 10:17:26 and read 8091 times.

Quoting jetset (Reply 72):
How much of that US DoD cargo that is transported on all those Volga AN124's could be moved on the B747-200's that are getting parked.
Funny if it's true that the DoD don't contract B747-200 anymore but the AN124 is fine.
I understand the AN124 can haul things the B747-200 can't but if this cargo was moved by C5 or C17 that would free up some lift the old B747-200 can do.
Seems unfair that US Freight companies are parking planes because of lack of demand but the US DoD continue to use the Volga, Polet, and Antonov companies.

Anyway just a thought
Jetset

My guess, 0% of it! The AN-124 is a special beast with the rear folding ramp (or nose ramp) and the large cargo bay and can carry special items. My guess is even if all of the C-5s and C-17s are used, the DOD still has excess heavy cargo to be lifted, they would contract the AN-124! The 747 and AN-124 can't be used in the same sentence when it comes to hauling freight, they are just 2 completely different animals!


Just my two cents though!

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: KC135Hydraulics
Posted 2013-01-06 19:25:21 and read 7804 times.

I have seen the AN-124 at March ARB on several occasions. Every time, it had Marine Corps helicopters loaded and flight aware indicated it was heading to Hawaii. I believe the AN-124s are being used over the C-17 because of the front loading and the width and height of the cargo bay. The AN-124 is larger than the C-5, so I guess the Marine Corps finds it a better suit for transporting its helicopters.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: PHX787
Posted 2013-01-06 20:51:07 and read 7711 times.

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 18):

I got a nice video of her landing as well. Glad I did. Such a graceful bird.

Topic: RE: Evergreen Airlines Parks The 747-200 Classics
Username: FlyDeltaJets
Posted 2013-01-06 23:37:04 and read 7594 times.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 66):
Did they get the plane out of JFK or is it still at the hangar?

I saw the ex SV Cargo plane taxing in JFK early Saturday morning. The SV logo on the tail was painted over and all the world except for Cargo was painted over. Still in SV general colors though.


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